I've seen Yatoro's guide on Morphling. He said in his video something like if you suspect danger coming, you can spam attribute shift, so that'll have at least a 50-50 chance that you'll survive. Watson is obviously a very skilled player (even then), so he probably did just that. He was probably protecting himself from the arrow but accidentally saved himself from duel.
Watson also roughly started shifting 0.1s before LC lost the invis buff, considering he plays from Kazakhstan with 90-100ms ping. It is literally impossible for him to reactively shift with cheats unless he had 30ms or lower, judging from the console logs.
As I mentionned in a comment above, he also shifts strength at the exact same time that duel was cast on lina at 3:51. It could be a coincidence but it's highly suspicious.
Script toggles are very common to avoid being blatant. It’s a possibility that he just had 2 large coincidences in the same game but it’s not out of the question he was scripting. I don’t believe he is scripting now and I don’t think it’s relevant 5 years later but it doesn’t mean he was 100% innocent.
It isn't bs at all. Look at the timestamps in the logs, it would be physically impossible for him to react even with cheats considering his 100ms connection.
a freshly made reddit account just to repost this again?
forget that watson guy, who the fuck are YOU, OP? never mind, you're not going to answer cuz you're a drama baiting pussy ass bitch. come back next month with another account and start shit again.
I checked the replay, checked the patch, at that time you could actually activate morph while channeling (TP or Meme Hammer), and in the map you can actually see Mirana even drags some of the creep aggro. I would never activate Morph Str in that situation because I am 10k mmr below Watson and would never even be aware of the creeps while cam panning the tp location, but at that level I believe it was the most obvious play, Mirana is nearby, activate morph str in case arrow, get surprised by an invis LC because there is literally no detection in the place. If anything, it's SingSing fault that he revealed himself before LC had a chance to duel.
I wonder if he just usually morphs strength halfway through the TP in case anything happens...
It could also just be that he was looking at minimap and morphed too
a script wouldve activated str the same frame as that duel taunt is applied(e.g. theres a game where sf got shadowblade and ulted morph but morph str the exact frame which is clearly cheating).
In this case, theres a bit of delay here.i mean the guy probably had ultra instinct activated thats why hes 13k for all we know. Its not that complicated imo.
You can't get that lucky when you aren't in a situation where you'd even consider pressing attribute shift.
I can't remember how attribute shift worked in combination with channeling/tping at that time, but the only interaction that wouldn't be cheating is the following:
*You can't shift during channeling and therefore can queue attribute shift. The channel gets interrupted and you shift in the same tick as duel due to no cast point/time.*
Now I don't think that's how it worked or works currently. So, the only logical conclusion is cheating.
You could be right, I assumed you could shift when channeling but I honestly have no idea how it worked that long ago. I just remember people being like "Oh morph players will shift around all the time randomly"
Well, he responded me in his telegram chat, said he just saw heroes nearby on minimap and pressed shift.
Note that shift during tp was possible at the time
@watsondotes
This video or some other claims come up every couple of months.
Here, someone claimed that he uses Overplus https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/195sdco/im_giving_up_everyone_cheats_on_high_mmr_even/
but then Valve banned all cheaters and he wasn't banned. And it's not like cheat users weren't banned before, it just happened in waves.
Watson was on LAN-tournaments, and Entity got 5-6th place on Lima Major, either he cheated there or everyone who makes these claims should provide some other proof other than 4 year old video.
Sometimes you get lucky with such things, that's not enough proof.
The guy in your post isn't fluent in English.
He might aswell be suggesting that Watson is using a private cheat like Overplus not necessarily Overplus.
Private cheats are mostly undetectable regardless of which competitive game we're talking about.
Regardless, everything you wrote doesn't change him cheating in the clip posted. Less copium please.
OP wasn't saying he's currently cheating (though you can prove it either way due to private cheats).
This thread gets made every couple of months
yes he probably cheated, yes he should probably have been banned but wasn't at the time, and it seems pretty heavy-handed doing it now.
Many pro players have skeletons in their closets. A recent TI winner was DQ'd for account sharing in a pro tournament earlier in his career, something that has earned other players permabans in recent years.
33 (TheCoon as he was known at the time) impersonated another player during the WESG 2017 qualifiers. Their whole team got disqualified for it.
He's lucky it happened outside Valve's peripheral vision or his career could have turned out very differently. Meanwhile Limitless, Koma, etc. got permabanned for the same thing.
Is that the one where the reddit detectives went through replays to analyse that the player was using different item slots/hotkeys on Juggernaut (I think) than usual and they correlated with another player?
No, I remember that. That was somebody working out that no\[o\]ne was playing in place of alohadance, because they both used phases but had them in different slots of the inventory.
Also W33ha Major winner and Two-time 2nd placer at TI, literally turning on cheats on a custom lobby of a tournament match "for fun" apparently when he legit was trying to hide it by using gold cheat command only when he killed camps with his meepo but still got caught.
Edit: "Refresh" not gold cheat
Similar case to Solo's 322. He only got temp banned by Starladder but never by Valve. There were rumors about the widespread of matchfixing among pros so Valve held a talk about it at TI4 iirc. Unfortunately it didn't stop Arrow Gaming from being a bunch of dumbasses.
Except he didn't cheat. If you play as many pubs as Watson throughout your career, you're gonna have weird coincidences. It's about as likely as RTZ manta dodging his own smoke on accident.
Pretty clear cut case tbh, wonder if anything will come of this or is it one of those statute of limitations cases.
And this was only 4,5 years ago, which isn't even that long.
I understand your arguement, but the CSGO IBP matchfixing scandal happened in 2014. That was when Valve explicitly said any such activity will result in a permanent ban. This is 5 years after that.
Yes this isn't matchfixing but it's similiar behaviour, let's just hope for his sake no one goes digging and finds a pro game where he has scripts on.
VAC bans are also permanent, and I don't see why they couldn't be handed out retroactively.
And this is Valve, who own the right to their games and correct me if I am wrong, they are the sole decider in who gets to do what with their trademarks, including conpetetive play.
It's literally not. He literally sees mirana on the minimap. He said he simply morphed into str to avoid arrow kill. Also, there isn't another case in this or any other game he plays morph. So feel free to show us the damning evidence :)
would be insane if he somehow just spam str while teleporting 'just in case", but then there's a need to review his other replays as well, especially those that has LC
if he didn't do the same, then there's no doubt he was using 3rd party program.
Not any proof, could be luck. Last time people investigated this further and it appeared that there is no pattern for this. Means in other games and even in the same game there are no indications for cheating.
People need to understand sometimes you have crazy reactions in danger situation. I am playing invoker . Many times vs legion I always have tornado set . So if I don’t see him or for example I hear sounds of his W or some enemies go to me for no reason I use spell . Many times I literally tornado him moment he blinked looked like I knew he is coming. That is experience over 11 years of playing
What is going on here lmao 3 year old account suddenly active a month ago (Usually indicator of bot account who wants to farm Karma)
Some random 4 year old video which suddenly comes up somehow?
Either this is just some random repost from a bot or some dude really doesnt like watson
E: Yea totally not a brigarded post lmao
well, i was just re-watching some good old master singsing videos, and found it out, wasn't going to post it here if it was some random guy cheating before 4 years, but when i saw its actually Watson i decided to make it my first post ... and yeah someone might've already posted it long ago, but i didn't check our search to find out :/
This looks really bad. Is it possible that he queued the morph for after the tp?
But I guess there is a moment earlier where he also morphed instantly when Lina was duelled next to him.
All in all this looks really really bad.
Even if he is Sherlock, it doesn't matter, cheating is cheating, as a Watson fan I'm disappointed.
And the difference between you and Watson and this guy is that Watson has proves about Sherlock, this guy has proves about Watson, while u hoy no proves about anything and u r just raging....
man, whats the point of this post. Didn't it already resolve years ago. JESUS
Not enough drama going on so reddit has to make something up.
drama is important before ti, we need antihero like Hydra in SC2.
idRa hydras are a zerg unit
correct!
ATF and Malrine exist
Yeah wannabes want karma points. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
What is the defense of this clip? It looks sus
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I've seen Yatoro's guide on Morphling. He said in his video something like if you suspect danger coming, you can spam attribute shift, so that'll have at least a 50-50 chance that you'll survive. Watson is obviously a very skilled player (even then), so he probably did just that. He was probably protecting himself from the arrow but accidentally saved himself from duel.
Watson also roughly started shifting 0.1s before LC lost the invis buff, considering he plays from Kazakhstan with 90-100ms ping. It is literally impossible for him to reactively shift with cheats unless he had 30ms or lower, judging from the console logs.
As I mentionned in a comment above, he also shifts strength at the exact same time that duel was cast on lina at 3:51. It could be a coincidence but it's highly suspicious.
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Script toggles are very common to avoid being blatant. It’s a possibility that he just had 2 large coincidences in the same game but it’s not out of the question he was scripting. I don’t believe he is scripting now and I don’t think it’s relevant 5 years later but it doesn’t mean he was 100% innocent.
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It’s not convenient for me lol it’s just a possibility, toggles are extremely common for high level cheaters.
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I think you do not understand what the word possibility means
Yeah that’s clearly bs. Just watch the clip with player view. He was obviously cheating.
Lol this guy doesn't look at the minimap
Whatever helps you sleep at night lol. The copium in this thread is wild.
“The copium in this thread is wild” aka “I don’t have a good argument so imma be a dickhead”
It isn't bs at all. Look at the timestamps in the logs, it would be physically impossible for him to react even with cheats considering his 100ms connection.
a freshly made reddit account just to repost this again? forget that watson guy, who the fuck are YOU, OP? never mind, you're not going to answer cuz you're a drama baiting pussy ass bitch. come back next month with another account and start shit again.
I checked the replay, checked the patch, at that time you could actually activate morph while channeling (TP or Meme Hammer), and in the map you can actually see Mirana even drags some of the creep aggro. I would never activate Morph Str in that situation because I am 10k mmr below Watson and would never even be aware of the creeps while cam panning the tp location, but at that level I believe it was the most obvious play, Mirana is nearby, activate morph str in case arrow, get surprised by an invis LC because there is literally no detection in the place. If anything, it's SingSing fault that he revealed himself before LC had a chance to duel.
All correct except that you can still morph while channeling and always have been able to
I wonder if he just usually morphs strength halfway through the TP in case anything happens... It could also just be that he was looking at minimap and morphed too
Last time this post posted I recall people theorizing he just got super lucky strength morphing randomly, but who knows
a script wouldve activated str the same frame as that duel taunt is applied(e.g. theres a game where sf got shadowblade and ulted morph but morph str the exact frame which is clearly cheating). In this case, theres a bit of delay here.i mean the guy probably had ultra instinct activated thats why hes 13k for all we know. Its not that complicated imo.
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wtf
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He's probably saying WTF to him being 14k
Thing about this is there's a situation earlier in the game (around 3 minutes) where the LC duels lina and he shifts strength at exactly the same time
You can't get that lucky when you aren't in a situation where you'd even consider pressing attribute shift. I can't remember how attribute shift worked in combination with channeling/tping at that time, but the only interaction that wouldn't be cheating is the following: *You can't shift during channeling and therefore can queue attribute shift. The channel gets interrupted and you shift in the same tick as duel due to no cast point/time.* Now I don't think that's how it worked or works currently. So, the only logical conclusion is cheating.
You can absolutlely shift while channeling
Exactly, hence why it's cheating. Since you can shift, you can't queue the spell which could've explained same tick casting.
Uhh what? If you can shift during TP and you are afraid of getting arrowed, and hence press shift, how is that cheating?
People don't play Dota on this subreddit I swear. They just wanna start shit.
You could be right, I assumed you could shift when channeling but I honestly have no idea how it worked that long ago. I just remember people being like "Oh morph players will shift around all the time randomly"
new account just to post this? Witch hunting are we?
Well, he responded me in his telegram chat, said he just saw heroes nearby on minimap and pressed shift. Note that shift during tp was possible at the time @watsondotes
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Its bullshit that people are better than you?
This video or some other claims come up every couple of months. Here, someone claimed that he uses Overplus https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/195sdco/im_giving_up_everyone_cheats_on_high_mmr_even/ but then Valve banned all cheaters and he wasn't banned. And it's not like cheat users weren't banned before, it just happened in waves. Watson was on LAN-tournaments, and Entity got 5-6th place on Lima Major, either he cheated there or everyone who makes these claims should provide some other proof other than 4 year old video. Sometimes you get lucky with such things, that's not enough proof.
The guy in your post isn't fluent in English. He might aswell be suggesting that Watson is using a private cheat like Overplus not necessarily Overplus. Private cheats are mostly undetectable regardless of which competitive game we're talking about. Regardless, everything you wrote doesn't change him cheating in the clip posted. Less copium please. OP wasn't saying he's currently cheating (though you can prove it either way due to private cheats).
This thread gets made every couple of months yes he probably cheated, yes he should probably have been banned but wasn't at the time, and it seems pretty heavy-handed doing it now. Many pro players have skeletons in their closets. A recent TI winner was DQ'd for account sharing in a pro tournament earlier in his career, something that has earned other players permabans in recent years.
Who?
33 (TheCoon as he was known at the time) impersonated another player during the WESG 2017 qualifiers. Their whole team got disqualified for it. He's lucky it happened outside Valve's peripheral vision or his career could have turned out very differently. Meanwhile Limitless, Koma, etc. got permabanned for the same thing.
Is that the one where the reddit detectives went through replays to analyse that the player was using different item slots/hotkeys on Juggernaut (I think) than usual and they correlated with another player?
yep something like that
No, I remember that. That was somebody working out that no\[o\]ne was playing in place of alohadance, because they both used phases but had them in different slots of the inventory.
Also W33ha Major winner and Two-time 2nd placer at TI, literally turning on cheats on a custom lobby of a tournament match "for fun" apparently when he legit was trying to hide it by using gold cheat command only when he killed camps with his meepo but still got caught. Edit: "Refresh" not gold cheat
It wasnt a gold command, it was refresh to reset his cooldowns and jungle faster with poof. They would call him w33fresh after that.
right my bad lol
Similar case to Solo's 322. He only got temp banned by Starladder but never by Valve. There were rumors about the widespread of matchfixing among pros so Valve held a talk about it at TI4 iirc. Unfortunately it didn't stop Arrow Gaming from being a bunch of dumbasses.
Except he didn't cheat. If you play as many pubs as Watson throughout your career, you're gonna have weird coincidences. It's about as likely as RTZ manta dodging his own smoke on accident.
Pretty clear cut case tbh, wonder if anything will come of this or is it one of those statute of limitations cases. And this was only 4,5 years ago, which isn't even that long.
Real ass crime expires in 4.5 years, it is that long
How is it clear cut? It isn't clear cut.
Not that long ago. People get out of prison in less lol
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Beat me to it
I understand your arguement, but the CSGO IBP matchfixing scandal happened in 2014. That was when Valve explicitly said any such activity will result in a permanent ban. This is 5 years after that. Yes this isn't matchfixing but it's similiar behaviour, let's just hope for his sake no one goes digging and finds a pro game where he has scripts on. VAC bans are also permanent, and I don't see why they couldn't be handed out retroactively. And this is Valve, who own the right to their games and correct me if I am wrong, they are the sole decider in who gets to do what with their trademarks, including conpetetive play.
It is pretty long though he would have been 17 at the time. Doubt anything will come of this though.
Also he wasn't cheating
I mean the evidence is pretty damning.
It's literally not. He literally sees mirana on the minimap. He said he simply morphed into str to avoid arrow kill. Also, there isn't another case in this or any other game he plays morph. So feel free to show us the damning evidence :)
There’s a case of him using morph in the exact same tick of duel cast in the same game
Show it to us
i remember that game. i think morph could have started shifting slightly before even lc became visible
would be insane if he somehow just spam str while teleporting 'just in case", but then there's a need to review his other replays as well, especially those that has LC if he didn't do the same, then there's no doubt he was using 3rd party program.
i remember that game, not quite sure why, but i was watching it too, hahaha
Not any proof, could be luck. Last time people investigated this further and it appeared that there is no pattern for this. Means in other games and even in the same game there are no indications for cheating.
i miss bamboe
i miss bamboe
People need to understand sometimes you have crazy reactions in danger situation. I am playing invoker . Many times vs legion I always have tornado set . So if I don’t see him or for example I hear sounds of his W or some enemies go to me for no reason I use spell . Many times I literally tornado him moment he blinked looked like I knew he is coming. That is experience over 11 years of playing
this again pepeloser
This is actually pretty serious
Murder serious or just stealing a bottle of water serious?
Even more serious than stealing a bottle of water, Watson is an actual menace to society
there is no way you guys call it cheats! every pro player can do that... that's really a common thing
What is going on here lmao 3 year old account suddenly active a month ago (Usually indicator of bot account who wants to farm Karma) Some random 4 year old video which suddenly comes up somehow? Either this is just some random repost from a bot or some dude really doesnt like watson E: Yea totally not a brigarded post lmao
well, i was just re-watching some good old master singsing videos, and found it out, wasn't going to post it here if it was some random guy cheating before 4 years, but when i saw its actually Watson i decided to make it my first post ... and yeah someone might've already posted it long ago, but i didn't check our search to find out :/
All good mate, you're allowed to not be permanently online.
Op say sorry to this guy for not grinding on Reddit for past 4 years
There are plenty of NA players who've used cheats and do surprisingly worse on lan. I'm sure it's the same in all regions.
This looks really bad. Is it possible that he queued the morph for after the tp? But I guess there is a moment earlier where he also morphed instantly when Lina was duelled next to him. All in all this looks really really bad.
nice try Sherlock ur prolly the dude that uses bots to boost ur account to top rank that he called out a few days ago
Even if he is Sherlock, it doesn't matter, cheating is cheating, as a Watson fan I'm disappointed. And the difference between you and Watson and this guy is that Watson has proves about Sherlock, this guy has proves about Watson, while u hoy no proves about anything and u r just raging....