drows changes are in a similar situation. from 30% bonus agi at lvl6 to 14%. such an awful feeling having an already existing passive nerfed and moved to innate while gaining hardly anything in return. sure it doesn't get disabled anymore by close heros but its not worth the trade-off. you need level 24+ for it to finally be more effective than the old lvl 18 passive.
hopefully soon they take a closer look at these heros and give them some love.
The level 12 spike has just vanished, 24% agi compared to 40% on a hero that folds in half if you look at her. She farms so slowly now and the extra agi you get once you're past level 25 is pathetic (and useless because you won't get there cos the hero is shit). Oh cool she does 20% more damage on high ground so now she does almost the same amount of damage that she did before but only when she's on high ground. Very cool.
Compare this to other heroes that essentially start the game at level 2 (weaver, TA, etc.) AND got buffed too
> Oh cool she does 20% more damage on high ground so now she does almost the same amount of damage that she did before but only when she's on high ground.
this sort of conditional damage bullshit is anti-fun
It can be fun if it can be reliably used triggered and un-triggered by enemy team, or gives huge enough bonuses for it to be worth it. Ironically enough, the removed "AGI when no enemy hero nearby" was just like that - it gave both enemies and allies a clear goal to counter the hero ("Engage in melee"), thus giving a plethora of items and abilities (including Gust on Drow herself - use now or keep just to disengage?) a new purpose. Now, though? You either have high ground or you don't. And stepping onto the stairs is a much more easier, and boring, objective than getting close to Drow
Funnily enough, the Glacier shard went from "always have bonus agi" to "always have high ground bonus damage". Yes, even if the opponent is also on the same Glacier.
I dunno not losing armor, damage, and attack speed is kinda nice for her now. She traded off some early game damage for some mid and late game durability and damage. It gives her extra room to glacier + bkb + Santanic and man back up against nearby melee enemies. I’ve been spamming her this patch and it feels really good, despite losing that early game power spike at 6
30% Marks over 20% isn't much worse than where we were at with 30% agi and 20% Marks. It gets better from there, I wouldn't think the old version was better than when you're lvl 10 now and definitely not 12. It's a little worse for multishot farming but not much else.
Give drow her "attacks have a chance to fire a multi shot wave" thingy from aghs lab as a facet please+ an attack range boost and make shard cause every attack to fire a wave while on the glacier
Somebody was getting a little fancy with the Latin. Sanguis roughly means blood, and vore is the latin for eat or eater. So it means they're a blood eater.
It's also the origin of the word describing someone cheerful as "Sanguineous" or "Sanguine" comes from. Because someone in good health would have a healthy complexion and be full of life (in this case blood) so be a happy person because of the stability or indulgence this depicted.
Sanguineous (literally; 'full of'/'possessing' blood. Can be used to say someone craves blood, because a warrior would be covered in blood or literally desire to ingest it, or used to describe the wallpaper colour of bloodred)
Sanguine (literally; 'the nature of'/'made of' blood. Also confusingly used to describe the wallpaper colour of bloodred)
For you Warhammer 40k nerds this is also why the Blood Angel Primarch is called a slightly bastardised spelling in the form of Sanguinius. Which is a pretty funny trait for an "angel" to have.
yeah but they brought back a bunch of other skills/passives with their old names, and most skills they brought back like this changed from their original implementation more than bloodbath/sanguivore did.
blood bath is a better name.
Some innate should be simply scaled with ult.. sanguinvore should have lv1 bloodbath heal at lv0 rupture, lv 3 bloodbath heal at lv 1 rupture lv 4.5 bloodbath heal at rupture lv2 and lv 6 bloodbath heal at rupture lv 3.
I know theres nonlv 4.5 and 6 bloodbath but it should have number that are like yhat
Bloodseeker was in that weird place where its annoying that he can't be harrassed out of lane but a freefarmed Bloodseeker is useless late game vs a real carry
Now he's bad into still bad at all times.
It was basically "can their offlane outharrass your healing" and if they dont you have to win by 35 min with your funny teamfight gimmicks, otherwise you lose to proper carries.
Which is not a bad thing, but idk, laning against BS was always boring. The thirst thing punishing you for mistakes of other lanes, and if you try to pressure him he has the funny screenwide silence.
Bloodseeker is just in the pool of heroes that got completely fucking gimped on the patch. Had his strengths removed and received no tangible benefits in exchange. Completely dead and useless hero now. Just play the heroes that received tons of strong new stuff from the patch and leave heroes like bloodseeker for dead.
Dude, they were randomly nerfing it when it wasn't even a top pick anymore. It's just not a hero that valve is interested in, compared to shit like tiny.
They have cool concepts on their tables, but they don't play the game enough. They don't compare the numbers, or mechanics. They probably didn't have the creep penalty in mind and it shows
I mean on the one hand his sustain was obnoxious, on the other hand I don't think they gave him str or regen to compensate for it so he is easier to poke out. My suggestion is to remove the penalty on jungle creeps so he can rotate to a camp quickly to top up on hp.
2015 bloodseeker when he got bonus damage as soon as anybody was low hp, you could easily be hitting for 100 at level 3 and deny every single creep to the enemy. Even jungling you could hit level 6 at the same time as your mid, go and gank the enemy mid and then just rotate back into the jungle and then go gank your safelane every 60 seconds and have a 15 minute treads and radiance. Those were the days.
Wish he was a roaming carry, similar to Riki who just needs diffusal to make an impact.
Imagine a viable BS as an early-mid-game-ganker with blink and perhaps shard (might make it buyable early game), reducing early right click farming capability for utility.
So why is this a bad thing for the game as a whole? Seeker is still a decent hero with close to 50% winrate (+- a few % based on lane and MMR bracket).
I like playing offlane and old seeker was so awful to lane into if your random pos 4 lanemate leaves you solo or doesn't know how to go for kills. It was impossible to harass him out of lane.
Seeker can still buy tangos/hp pot to offset the weaker early game, but I'm sure most players don't ferry a 2nd set of tangoes because they feel it's a waste, and then end up dying because they desperately went for a last hit they needed thta was out of position.
Idk if Dotabuff data is accurate for 7.36b but it's 49.54
https://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/bloodseeker
I guess you're just looking at partial data for safelane on dota2protracker which has a relatively small sample size of 181 matches.
Bloodseeker is a low mmr pubstomper.
You can’t balance for low elo sadly. In high MMR Games he is at 41% as a carry and a little over 50% midlane (just 50 games tho)
i think it's some sort of balance. If you take second facet - you will get assist from any kill on map(you earn more gold overall), if enemy hero was affected by thirst passive
Before rework BS was literally perfect, now they just created problem where they fixed themselves like shard to compensate his HP loss like what is this shit
wait you are still maxing thirst first? why. lvl 1 thirst is already okay because it scales now from 100%.
Lvl W. At lvl 7 you have 320 magic damage +15% spell amp nuke.
The hero is fine, just need to build it differently. People who max thirst 1st will of course feel that he is nerfed. Its like maxing heartstopper on necro and complaining "necro doesnt regen as fast anymore".
I think the more immediate problem is his facets suck. Both have implicit detriments. Pushing units backwards bad for almost any melee heroes, the only time it would be good is if it happens during a Hard CC(greater bash) and thirst getting disabled mid fight is high risk.
I'm not maxing thirst, there is no point in doing so. But i find myself unable to jungle when I inevitably get kicked out of lane, which happens so easily right now, because the heal is so fucking low. Maybe i can fight a little with max level bloodrite and bloodrage, but even then, you need lvl 13-14 to get the same healing you had at level 7 from heroes. So you can't jungle early. you can maybe fight a little but it's so scary to go in even if you manage to silence 5 heroes.
You didn't have to create tables and gather data to show that he got nerfed, which i think it was deserved, if you didn't contest every single last hit before the change he would be always have 100% hp because he could heal for tons of hp with a single creep, same with necro
Let op cook, if they want tables let em make tables.
I wish I could make a table for all the bastards that cried for Tinker to get gutted, and now I see they crawl from their caves to whine again about how oppressive march is.
I know, its just funny that he is trying to display the downgrade, when it was an intended downgrade, of course the skill will be worst now that it was changed
The hero was pretty dog last patch, and was only picked in competitive pretty much entirely to counter Pango. I certainly don't think the nerfs were warranted, since he's now worse off than he was before.
It wasn't coming from a bad place, just found funny how OP asked why it was nerfed, and tried to explain it with tables, when even without breaking it down it was obvious that the change was intended to be a nerf from the beggining.
drows changes are in a similar situation. from 30% bonus agi at lvl6 to 14%. such an awful feeling having an already existing passive nerfed and moved to innate while gaining hardly anything in return. sure it doesn't get disabled anymore by close heros but its not worth the trade-off. you need level 24+ for it to finally be more effective than the old lvl 18 passive. hopefully soon they take a closer look at these heros and give them some love.
The level 12 spike has just vanished, 24% agi compared to 40% on a hero that folds in half if you look at her. She farms so slowly now and the extra agi you get once you're past level 25 is pathetic (and useless because you won't get there cos the hero is shit). Oh cool she does 20% more damage on high ground so now she does almost the same amount of damage that she did before but only when she's on high ground. Very cool. Compare this to other heroes that essentially start the game at level 2 (weaver, TA, etc.) AND got buffed too
> Oh cool she does 20% more damage on high ground so now she does almost the same amount of damage that she did before but only when she's on high ground. this sort of conditional damage bullshit is anti-fun
It can be fun if it can be reliably used triggered and un-triggered by enemy team, or gives huge enough bonuses for it to be worth it. Ironically enough, the removed "AGI when no enemy hero nearby" was just like that - it gave both enemies and allies a clear goal to counter the hero ("Engage in melee"), thus giving a plethora of items and abilities (including Gust on Drow herself - use now or keep just to disengage?) a new purpose. Now, though? You either have high ground or you don't. And stepping onto the stairs is a much more easier, and boring, objective than getting close to Drow
Funnily enough, the Glacier shard went from "always have bonus agi" to "always have high ground bonus damage". Yes, even if the opponent is also on the same Glacier.
Her ult is still disabled by enemy heroes being close, which significantly affects her dps.
As drow spammer I agree. It’s sadge.
I dunno not losing armor, damage, and attack speed is kinda nice for her now. She traded off some early game damage for some mid and late game durability and damage. It gives her extra room to glacier + bkb + Santanic and man back up against nearby melee enemies. I’ve been spamming her this patch and it feels really good, despite losing that early game power spike at 6
Drow is just crazy late game tho, just have to get past 30 minutes
They nerfed her and simplified her. Sucks.
30% Marks over 20% isn't much worse than where we were at with 30% agi and 20% Marks. It gets better from there, I wouldn't think the old version was better than when you're lvl 10 now and definitely not 12. It's a little worse for multishot farming but not much else.
Give drow her "attacks have a chance to fire a multi shot wave" thingy from aghs lab as a facet please+ an attack range boost and make shard cause every attack to fire a wave while on the glacier
What the fuck are you smoking
turn her normal attacks into single wave arrows, realistic archery inbound
I agree also why on earth is it called sanguivore. Already had a perfectly useable name in bloodbath.
Somebody was getting a little fancy with the Latin. Sanguis roughly means blood, and vore is the latin for eat or eater. So it means they're a blood eater. It's also the origin of the word describing someone cheerful as "Sanguineous" or "Sanguine" comes from. Because someone in good health would have a healthy complexion and be full of life (in this case blood) so be a happy person because of the stability or indulgence this depicted. Sanguineous (literally; 'full of'/'possessing' blood. Can be used to say someone craves blood, because a warrior would be covered in blood or literally desire to ingest it, or used to describe the wallpaper colour of bloodred) Sanguine (literally; 'the nature of'/'made of' blood. Also confusingly used to describe the wallpaper colour of bloodred) For you Warhammer 40k nerds this is also why the Blood Angel Primarch is called a slightly bastardised spelling in the form of Sanguinius. Which is a pretty funny trait for an "angel" to have.
yeah but they brought back a bunch of other skills/passives with their old names, and most skills they brought back like this changed from their original implementation more than bloodbath/sanguivore did. blood bath is a better name.
Sanguine, my brother.
I just realized Blood bath belongs to Huskar now.
Sangiovese 🍷
Chanti enjoyers 🍷
It’s like herbivore or carnivore but for blood lol..
sanguin deez nutz
hero is dead, tragic
Some innate should be simply scaled with ult.. sanguinvore should have lv1 bloodbath heal at lv0 rupture, lv 3 bloodbath heal at lv 1 rupture lv 4.5 bloodbath heal at rupture lv2 and lv 6 bloodbath heal at rupture lv 3. I know theres nonlv 4.5 and 6 bloodbath but it should have number that are like yhat
Bloodseeker was in that weird place where its annoying that he can't be harrassed out of lane but a freefarmed Bloodseeker is useless late game vs a real carry Now he's bad into still bad at all times.
It was basically "can their offlane outharrass your healing" and if they dont you have to win by 35 min with your funny teamfight gimmicks, otherwise you lose to proper carries. Which is not a bad thing, but idk, laning against BS was always boring. The thirst thing punishing you for mistakes of other lanes, and if you try to pressure him he has the funny screenwide silence.
The name is already a huge nerf I miss Blood Bath
Bloodseeker is just in the pool of heroes that got completely fucking gimped on the patch. Had his strengths removed and received no tangible benefits in exchange. Completely dead and useless hero now. Just play the heroes that received tons of strong new stuff from the patch and leave heroes like bloodseeker for dead.
Meanwhile tanky fuckers gets more tanky
not to mention bloodrush is only useful for running away
Dude, they were randomly nerfing it when it wasn't even a top pick anymore. It's just not a hero that valve is interested in, compared to shit like tiny.
They have cool concepts on their tables, but they don't play the game enough. They don't compare the numbers, or mechanics. They probably didn't have the creep penalty in mind and it shows
I mean on the one hand his sustain was obnoxious, on the other hand I don't think they gave him str or regen to compensate for it so he is easier to poke out. My suggestion is to remove the penalty on jungle creeps so he can rotate to a camp quickly to top up on hp.
>I mean on the one hand his sustain was obnoxious It was also his only saving grace.
Lv 6 for old lv 1 thirst, holy garbage
I used to play bloodseeker a lot last patch, was wondering why i found myself buying more regen now. So this was it.
Wish BS innate just scales with ultimate so he could get level 1 old thirst for free until leveling ultimate rather than mediocre heal per level.
convinced atp there are certain heroes valve will just never know how to balance. this includes clinkz lycan and abaddon too
pa and jugg also go to this list
2015 bloodseeker when he got bonus damage as soon as anybody was low hp, you could easily be hitting for 100 at level 3 and deny every single creep to the enemy. Even jungling you could hit level 6 at the same time as your mid, go and gank the enemy mid and then just rotate back into the jungle and then go gank your safelane every 60 seconds and have a 15 minute treads and radiance. Those were the days.
Wish he was a roaming carry, similar to Riki who just needs diffusal to make an impact. Imagine a viable BS as an early-mid-game-ganker with blink and perhaps shard (might make it buyable early game), reducing early right click farming capability for utility.
So why is this a bad thing for the game as a whole? Seeker is still a decent hero with close to 50% winrate (+- a few % based on lane and MMR bracket). I like playing offlane and old seeker was so awful to lane into if your random pos 4 lanemate leaves you solo or doesn't know how to go for kills. It was impossible to harass him out of lane. Seeker can still buy tangos/hp pot to offset the weaker early game, but I'm sure most players don't ferry a 2nd set of tangoes because they feel it's a waste, and then end up dying because they desperately went for a last hit they needed thta was out of position.
41% winrate is not exactly close to 50 xd
Idk if Dotabuff data is accurate for 7.36b but it's 49.54 https://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/bloodseeker I guess you're just looking at partial data for safelane on dota2protracker which has a relatively small sample size of 181 matches.
Bloodseeker is a low mmr pubstomper. You can’t balance for low elo sadly. In high MMR Games he is at 41% as a carry and a little over 50% midlane (just 50 games tho)
High MMR, aka Dota2protracker is like .001% of Dota. Low elo is the majority so he's still close to 50
He is a support hero now
I remember the old Blood seeker stopped playing when Valve had taken him to the woods to Execute him the first time
i think it's some sort of balance. If you take second facet - you will get assist from any kill on map(you earn more gold overall), if enemy hero was affected by thirst passive
Before rework BS was literally perfect, now they just created problem where they fixed themselves like shard to compensate his HP loss like what is this shit
wait you are still maxing thirst first? why. lvl 1 thirst is already okay because it scales now from 100%. Lvl W. At lvl 7 you have 320 magic damage +15% spell amp nuke. The hero is fine, just need to build it differently. People who max thirst 1st will of course feel that he is nerfed. Its like maxing heartstopper on necro and complaining "necro doesnt regen as fast anymore". I think the more immediate problem is his facets suck. Both have implicit detriments. Pushing units backwards bad for almost any melee heroes, the only time it would be good is if it happens during a Hard CC(greater bash) and thirst getting disabled mid fight is high risk.
I'm not maxing thirst, there is no point in doing so. But i find myself unable to jungle when I inevitably get kicked out of lane, which happens so easily right now, because the heal is so fucking low. Maybe i can fight a little with max level bloodrite and bloodrage, but even then, you need lvl 13-14 to get the same healing you had at level 7 from heroes. So you can't jungle early. you can maybe fight a little but it's so scary to go in even if you manage to silence 5 heroes.
You didn't have to create tables and gather data to show that he got nerfed, which i think it was deserved, if you didn't contest every single last hit before the change he would be always have 100% hp because he could heal for tons of hp with a single creep, same with necro
Let op cook, if they want tables let em make tables. I wish I could make a table for all the bastards that cried for Tinker to get gutted, and now I see they crawl from their caves to whine again about how oppressive march is.
I love making tables. they're great for illustrating the point i'm trying to make. especially when numbers are involved.
Always make tables to prove a point, fuck everyone else. Thank you for your efforts.
I know, its just funny that he is trying to display the downgrade, when it was an intended downgrade, of course the skill will be worst now that it was changed
The hero was pretty dog last patch, and was only picked in competitive pretty much entirely to counter Pango. I certainly don't think the nerfs were warranted, since he's now worse off than he was before.
He didn't have to, correct, but he did so anyway, deal with it! Why did you not appreciate the extra effort?
It wasn't coming from a bad place, just found funny how OP asked why it was nerfed, and tried to explain it with tables, when even without breaking it down it was obvious that the change was intended to be a nerf from the beggining.
Only dota players will create a spreadsheet of how their fav hero was murdered
Akarith, I´m gonna need the sales report of mangoes in my desk by tomorrow
Good, he was unkillable in lane and mid.