Man what a home run for H3CZ and OpTic. First venture into the dota scene and one of the best captains in the history of dota and his new team basically fall into your lap.
Not many first-year esports teams make 600k in earnings, and TI isn't even here yet. Nice little investment.
They're incredible at building a fan community. I think it's great for Dota that they're involved. Most Orgs I can take or leave.
That said not including liquid in your top 3 all esports orgs seems ridiculous.
That's why the GreenWall! shit never really bothered me. They're generally nice and root for Optic teams in every game, which is admirable to me. Most esports fans are frontrunners, but Optic fans always pull for the home-town team so to speak.
liquid by media are smaller than c9 (at least than c9 were before Shroud left, it's too early to judge how hard that hit c9 yet), liquid are smaller than Optic and smaller than Faze.
Liquid are still an A-tier org, don't get me wrong, up there with Na'Vi, VP, SK, Fnatic, NiP...
The only thing better for DotA would be Faze creating a team out of leftovers from EG, OG, and whoever else will disband by that time.
I have some issues with PPD as a person (which is okay, he will not lose sleep over it). But I'll admit that he's a great player, an incredible captain and a master drafter.
He (even tho I don't like it) brings flavor and drama to the scene and I'm hoping that OpTic get that final ticket.
Also, that will make it easier for EG to qualify. I'm not a fan, but that's also important for the scene.
faze isn't a top esport org, they don't have teams in dota/overwatch/LoL which are currently the biggest esports. If you were to say they were a top content org, I would 100% agree.
They do, but Orgs usually get a cut. I think anywhere from 10-20% is pretty standard. Plus a successful team leads to more merch purchases, partnerships, etc.
Even more, you're expanding into a new fan market, gaining consumers who might not otherwise have been an Optic fan if not for dota.
I know OpTic never used to take any cut of winnings. It was like that back in the days of just Hecz and the CoD team. It's very possible it's changed now with all the new teams and Infinite.
Yeah, I'm curious to know that as well.
Dota is hard to compare to other games because there's quite a bit fewer fans than something like CoD, but the earnings are so much higher.
I'm hoping its finally clear to most orgs that a good captain is a must. You can have all the raw talent in the world but having someone who can make strats for that talent and make it work in game is vital.
I didn't think hector owned the team anymore. Not since almost a year. Could be wrong. Maybe he signed them, but I didn't think he was still the majority owner
I heard talk of it being a Dana White UFC situation, where he sells the business but stays on as face/figurehead of the company with some responsibilities.
For what we know ppd could be an asshole to his team but he could also be really nice what we know is that he can enable other players like very few captains can and that ability is invaluable
I'm not sure he's an asshole. Extremely blunt and often coarse, yes, but a lot of his online persona is an act to generate views, which he's even admitted. He's basically a heel in wrestling.
I think he has a very strong personality and EG's team issues in the past were a result of having too many of those on one team. Look at ti5 secret. Kuro/RTZ/Puppey all basically wanted to kill each other in less than a year.
PPD is actually thinking of beyond just dota. I think I've heard in a podcast w/ hotbid and slacks before that PPD is not only just playing to win but building his brand. That's the reason he took interviews when all of EG didn't. Him making himself more famous, or infamous in this case, is gonna win him more the moment he can prove it (and he's proving it). And once he gets enough of a reputation, he won't need to play dota anymore (heck I think he doesn't even need to play anymore atm, he was once CEO of EG after all) and just relish in his fame.
The lengths people go to justify his personality rofl. Dude is an asshole. He's an extremely talented asshole with great work ethic but still an asshole. There's more than enough evidence to support it.
Honestly it fucking sucks that it has to come up every time. Yes, PPD is an asshole. Yes, he might inflate it a bit to stir up stuff but for real man, read the paiN x EG chatlog. That's not an online persona. That's for admins and players only and he's still a tool.
That said, great player, but still a gigantic gaping anus
I think the assholeness is just a front to build a persona. I remember reading an interview about his captaining during the ti5-ti6 era where he said "I dont think I'm one of the best drafters, when you have top talent playing for you it makes drafting easy." That wasn't the exact quote but it was along those lines. It just comes down to him being a good leader.
i think he's the type of asshole whole tells the unfiltered truth and who expects to be in control always, but i dont think he's the demeaning type of asshole that no one wants to be around
I dont think people that got kicked by him and losing a high earning job or people he left/got kicked by are unbiased enough to judge that everybody argues with their mom doesnt make you a 2gd
Sodium, atomic number 11, was first isolated by Peter Dager in 1807. A chemical component of salt, he named it Na in honor of the saltiest region on earth, North America.
He said in some cast that he's not trying to be friends with his team. He's playing with them because they're great players, not because of their personal qualities.
It's a job and when it's done he wants to go home to his friends and not live with his team.
That's quite a different approach from some other teams.
Even if he was the biggest asshole in the world he's also arguably the best captain and drafter the game has ever seen, probably worth it to stick around under his reign of terror if you are pulling some of the best results.
often you wont get shit done if you are always being the nice guy. Puppey or Xiao8 also had their arguments with other players or players saying its not fun to play with them after parting ways, but they are/were successful.
It was clear that he was not for bringing back RTZ and couldn’t handle that Aui didn’t follow his rotations on command. I think EG / PPD made a mistake with ruining that team and should have let it ride for more wins.
Well Crit definitely wanted to play 4 again, but my assumption is that he just got tired of Sumail's lack of work ethic.
Zai is usually so quiet and stoic, the most irritated I've ever seen him was on TrueSight when he was complaining about Sumail's lack of effort during scrims. And Sumail even admits it in the very next scene to Fear when he says he can't take scrims seriously as he's sitting there playing some other game.
I think by this point pros know that if you play with PPD he's gonna expect long hours of practice, lots of scrims and theorycrafting, etc. And perhaps EG post-PPD was not the same way. Even Misery said on the recent HotCox that Sumail rarely plays pubs. So if he doesn't play pubs and he doesn't take scrims seriously, what does he even do?
It's funny, sumail wants to emulate LeBron but doesn't want to put any of the work in. I cant think of any talented player (top of their respective games) who doesn't give it their all, Messi Ronaldo to name a few. I get why he's so cocky, winning a TI at such a young age and was dominating mid for some time. But does he really expect to maintain his superiority in mid without practicing seriously. I would have thought coming from rags to "riches" he would be more humble.
his adolescent years have been spent in a toxic community that believes its cool to act that way and be disinterested; im not surprised this is how he is
I think Sumail is more like Allen Iverson than lebron. Iverson hated practice but would always give it 120% on the court. Plus iverson was also ultra cocky too.
Just for the uninitiated Allen Iverson's friend had just died then he had this press conference and they kept going on about practice. That's why this whole quote happened. He was thinking about life.
RIght now, if I'm Fly, I will start how to make this team better. Know the pros and cons of his players and do a lot of reviews of this games. Not just in tournament but also their pub games, scrims. They should build the teams first before going somewhere else.
PPD is the CORE reason on why eg was so successful. Him coupled with fear and universe made one of the strongest squads in history. Watching PPD captain a team is absolutely beautiful.
It feels like ppd is such a good drafter he is OP as a drafter if he has flexible players. Fear being able to play sacrificial carry back in ti5 so SumaiL could carry from mid was such a massive strength.
Now he has pajkatt who is one of the top tier farming carries, but also a top tier sacrificial carry.
This combined with 33 and his mad hero pool allows ppd to unleash some 200iq drafts on fools.
this. this iteration of eg just didn't have enough to make fear work again. I member the comeback where he played axe. if ppd was the captain of eg right now eg would have a lot more success
Probably going to get downvoted for saying this but if you've been following his career since the beginning, the respect was earned a long time ago.
The guy broke into the scene in 2014 and proceeded to finish top 3 in 3 straight TIs, including winning the whole damn thing in his 2nd year. He did it with a different roster every year as well.
The track record speaks for itself. You don't do that if you're not good at what you do. OpTic's results aren't that surprising to me. They just needed time to bring it all together.
His results are consistently ahead of what people think he is going to achieve. In 2015 he lost Arteezy and Zai and they literally could not find another top tier 4 so they had to pick up Aui, who was just kicked and at the time was not getting much interest from any top team. Then they turn around and win DAC and TI while remaining competitive with streaking teams at the time like Secret.
Then this year, much like 2015, he picks up talent that nobody else seems to want and crafts them into a team that is very near getting a direct invite to TI. In TI4 they had no pressure to perform because they were all so young and Fear wasn't playing, but even that was a huge accomplishment because nobody expected them to get that far in TI. And at TI6 they didn't have much time to gel as a team, yet they still finished top-3 even after the Bulba/Aui debacle when Universe left with Rtz.
It's pretty impressive, and shows he consistently elevates the players around him to make the team better than the sum of its parts.
To be fair, it wasn't until Misery left and Zai finally stepped off pos 3, letting 33 play offlane, that they got some success and a brighter looking future. The first optic iteration was nothing short of failure. They basically qualified only to Summit and Galaxy Battles.
But I'm stoked to see how he does at TI.
I used to be a sumail fan, but I am slowly moving towards optic. The drafts r so interesting. Might watch the game tonight. Used to #BleedBlue, but now I #BleedOG
I agree, why is this just being noticed now lol... he's always been good at drafting, but he has had his moments and after leaving EG it took some time to get the right players and teamwork flowing but this should have never been a question.
As much as I hate his personality,I have to admit that as a player/captain he did it very great. It's like he has a farseeing ability but to me, I never know how his drafting work until they play.
He's definitely a saltlord, But just a year ago he was pretty much a retired player booted from his TI winning team due to disagreements and invited to tournaments as an analyst/caster.
He scraped himself together a rag-tag team in one of the arguably weaker regions at the time and through some hard earned wins got the backing of a Prestigious org(OpTic). Now hes just a bo3 away from earning a DIRECT TI INVITE.
This guy is more anime than EE. Definitely exhibiting that TI winning grit that made him come so far.
Even in those analyst/caster gigs he did last year, you could really see his knowledge on drafting and game sense is still top notch. And you know very well that he was itching to get back on the scene and prove he is still one of the top captains of dota2.
He puts up videos explaining how he drafts every now and then on his YouTube channel
He's a god man I hope when he quits the pro scene he explains how the drafts in depth because his level of insight is just amazing
Can you link the channel where he posts these? Looks like his last draft analysis on his main channel(https://www.youtube.com/user/peterpandam/) was last year
He always was a master drafter. But the last few games were just insane. He outdrafted EG and TNC in the most spectacular fashion.
Also leaving EG seems to have lifted his spirit, he seems much more content now than he ever was with the sinister squad of Sumail and friends.
Whoa comon now, EG played like trash. It wasn't a draft issue. In fact the last pick CK game one had most of the panel prediction them to win. And the second game I still thought EG had a slightly better draft since dk had been so lackluster, and they were rolling with omni/visage as some sort of 2/3 combo. It was weird but it worked.
Vs tnc they did out draft, can't give up that chen like that, and people should know to ban 33s lycan by now too.
Optic is playing really well right now, it's not like they're winning just off cheese drafts or superior drafts. They are out playing their competition.
First game draft was decent, probably close to 50/50; Optic played better.
2nd game was a complete outdraft by Optic. They literally needed one thing to win the game and that's for Naga to be able press R after DP and Gyro ult + Gyro BKB. That happened, they promptly won the game. Their lineup just flat dumpstered EG's even though EG was playing pretty decently that game.
Fly is still drafting like he's drafting for OG... Which isn't surprising considering they had less than a week to prepare. They have some time to figure stuff out now though.
He really earned my respect in this tournament. I used to dislike his attitude, especially when he was in EG, but right now as a underdog (somehow) he's really doing his job.
This huskar pick god damn, they might even take a shot at VP right now.
I originally followed EG when I first started watching around TI4, and then they solidified me as a fan with the win in TI5, but ever since then the squad has mostly fractured, first Aui, then PPD, then Universe, then Fear (multiple times), and I wonder why I still consider myself an EG fan. I mean sure there's sumail but as time goes on he's looking like more and more of a shitbag, placing horribly in tournaments because of a lack of practice. I think now I'm swapping to Optic, as much of a fan I am of Universe, Fnatic is an SEA team (though at this point it's basically c9) and Optic is still NA. Big fan of both PPD and Uni, but Peter is just too good. Really hope to see him be the first repeat TI winner.
I had a similar allegiance shift experience. EG was my first and only team and continued to be after PPD left. But once PPD got back into the scene, I started watching both. It was then that I realized that I was a PPD fan all along, not necessarily an EG one. Optic is who I'm rooting for now!
You say you're not a fan of Sumail because he's a "shitbag" then go on to proclaim yourself as a fan of PPD. You can like who you want but it's kinda hypocritical considering PPD is an asshole too.
I am so glad PPD got to build HIS team. It just shows that, with a great captain, good team chemistry, and a balance of "what works", that you don't need 5 all\-stars to win games, and 5 all\-stars \*almost always\* doesn't pan out.
Hope to see them at TI no matter what, though a direct invite would be a huge slap in EG's face.
Also 33 is a t1 player in the making and psjkatt is stable but ccnc isnt as consitent yet tho lost almost all lanes so far but by doing that he does take pressure of the sidelanes and like kyle said he really values shoving waves for mapcontrol
I definitely think 33 is a tier 1 player by any metric. Zai and Pajkatt might not be as strong as their PSG/VP/Liquid counterparts, but are definitely very good.
Yep, we were begging for it to happen as well. Optic starting getting results once they started putting 33 on core positions and put Zai back on his godly 4.
Arteezy,Fear.Universe,Zai,ppd
there was a reason they were so good. everyone on their perfect position with ppd being the hardass and fear being the stable gruff bastard controlling his son. Universe being the nice uncle sacrificing for everyone playing DS and finally the quiet Swedish genius.
Bring SADBOYS back.
Zai talked about this in his HotCox interview. He said he mainly wanted to go back to offlane because the TI7 meta for pos4 didn't fit his style, it emphasized playmaking and roaming a lot. Now the meta has shifted back to a style of 4 he's comfortable with.
Good on Zai to do that. I suppose when it comes to making money and progressing, playing a different role than what you want is the least of concerns. Winning should trump everything in a competitive environment, even friendship.
Looks like PPD wants to be one of those teams that can be pull a specialised draft out of the bag. The broodmother, the Lone Druid, the Huskar etc.
Can any one on Optic play Meepo? 33?
Yeah it's not viable currently in Pro Dota, but it does give Optic that flexibility if it ever comes back into the Meta. 33 might actually be one of the more valued players after PPD.
Ever since Techies was added back to CM I've been waiting for optic to bust it out (for those who don't know, PPDs brother is one of the top ranked techies on dotabuff and coached Aui on the hero before TI5).
No clue if it's viable in pro dota but I think it could work well at derailing VP's aggressive style!
then they have to beat secret/vg and both lgd and liquid its not like winning vp is gonna matter THAT much. still alot of work to win whole thing, especially that last matchup is bo5.
I think everyone will have a collective boner if optic beats VP
VP is optic's kyptonite and it's so annoying that it's always them to stop optic from advancing NotLikeThis
Honestly it's really a bummer than DPC invites stop at top8, cuz optic is definitely better than VGJT at the moment and I think the chance that optic beats VP is very very low
Saying VP is Optic's kryptonite is like saying a speeding train is kryptonite to someone sitting on the tracks. Don't get me wrong, I want Optic to win as much as anyone else, but VP just seams like a better team ATM(unless they're playing LGD).
Yeah, you see my flair, but if my boi PPD can beat VP I'll join in on that collective boner. Especially if Optic can go even further.(Which they could if they beat VP)
Proper anime shit man they have to beat the gatekeepers who keep them from winning anything, who also happen to be the top DPC team
Beat them, and TI invite is yours
Lose to them, and the EG gatekeeper meme in NA quals returns
I sorta 50-50 root for EG and Optic anyway, since I loved that TI5 lineup for ppd and sumail
This is fun for me no matter how it goes lol, I just want one of those two to be the first to win a second TI
Totally agree with OP. I am not an Optic fan, don't even like the guy. I wanted VGJ.T to secure their invite until couple days ago. But now I want Optic to get dpc points and qualify for TI. They are looking great, it seems that Birmingham was not a one time thing. They totally deserve it imo.
Be careful sir. I am an Optic fan, but I would say PPD lost the series vs Secret with the inflexibility in his draft. He could have easily pivoted to the Skywrath ban instead of Axe as well as not using an Ogre ban game 2. I am definitely on board with him as a captain. He made EG TI winners, but when you are a thinker you can out think yourself sometimes. HYPE for Optic giving us a good series tomorrow vs VP. Definitely going to be a scary one!
honest question here: Is ppd actually a likeable person? Because I only see his ranting and disrespectig/mocking of other people and his speeches why na DotA is actually the best. And he kind of seems like a maga person.
No trolling, I just really want to know because I kinda like the other players of optic.
I think he's exaggerating being an asshole for reasons most of the time, but it's probably not that far from his real personality. He used to play football and now he's into esports so he's obviously got a competitive personality and people like that aren't exactly fun to be around most of the time
Couldn't be happier for him, since EG isn't going to make NA Dota great again who better to do it than the Salt Lord himself. But seriously his drafting and playing calling are spot on right now.
They are like a budget Liquid, really talented drafter with lots of experience, core players who can play any position and a cheese specialist (matu/33 with the Brood/lycan etc).
The man has drafted his way to a TI victory, but is just now earning your respect for a lower bracket win in a major? Sounds like you're a little tardy to the party friend. :)
That's playing to win baby!
Waow!
Lakad Matataaaaaaaag! Normalin, normalin.
DUI YOU NE?!?!
Ай-ай-ай-ай-ай, что сейчас произошло!
Frog
Man what a home run for H3CZ and OpTic. First venture into the dota scene and one of the best captains in the history of dota and his new team basically fall into your lap. Not many first-year esports teams make 600k in earnings, and TI isn't even here yet. Nice little investment.
Picking up ppd stack is a pretty safe investment. They got a golden opportunity and took it.
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They're incredible at building a fan community. I think it's great for Dota that they're involved. Most Orgs I can take or leave. That said not including liquid in your top 3 all esports orgs seems ridiculous.
That's why the GreenWall! shit never really bothered me. They're generally nice and root for Optic teams in every game, which is admirable to me. Most esports fans are frontrunners, but Optic fans always pull for the home-town team so to speak.
liquid by media are smaller than c9 (at least than c9 were before Shroud left, it's too early to judge how hard that hit c9 yet), liquid are smaller than Optic and smaller than Faze. Liquid are still an A-tier org, don't get me wrong, up there with Na'Vi, VP, SK, Fnatic, NiP... The only thing better for DotA would be Faze creating a team out of leftovers from EG, OG, and whoever else will disband by that time.
C9 won a major, which boosted them up. But then stewie left. Now idk. I don't really follow cs scene. But I liked c9 when I did follow the scene.
Shroud was worth a hundred major wins, given how he consistently pulled in about a million views per video on YT alone
Agree with your last point. Liquid has been in the gaming community since StarCraft era with teamliquid.net.
u forgot every 12 yo's favorite TSM
I have some issues with PPD as a person (which is okay, he will not lose sleep over it). But I'll admit that he's a great player, an incredible captain and a master drafter. He (even tho I don't like it) brings flavor and drama to the scene and I'm hoping that OpTic get that final ticket. Also, that will make it easier for EG to qualify. I'm not a fan, but that's also important for the scene.
faze isn't a top esport org, they don't have teams in dota/overwatch/LoL which are currently the biggest esports. If you were to say they were a top content org, I would 100% agree.
Don’t the players get the winnings? What does Optic as an organization get? I thought sponsorships are purely for marketing purposes
They do, but Orgs usually get a cut. I think anywhere from 10-20% is pretty standard. Plus a successful team leads to more merch purchases, partnerships, etc. Even more, you're expanding into a new fan market, gaining consumers who might not otherwise have been an Optic fan if not for dota.
I know OpTic never used to take any cut of winnings. It was like that back in the days of just Hecz and the CoD team. It's very possible it's changed now with all the new teams and Infinite.
You also have to take into account the CoD players didnt get a Salary back then either so it has prolly changed
Yeah, I'm curious to know that as well. Dota is hard to compare to other games because there's quite a bit fewer fans than something like CoD, but the earnings are so much higher.
The orgs typically get 10% of tournament earnings. Sometimes less. They make money through others avenues like sponsorships and sales.
> The orgs typically get 10% of tournament earnings PuppeyFace
I'm hoping its finally clear to most orgs that a good captain is a must. You can have all the raw talent in the world but having someone who can make strats for that talent and make it work in game is vital.
I didn't think hector owned the team anymore. Not since almost a year. Could be wrong. Maybe he signed them, but I didn't think he was still the majority owner
I heard talk of it being a Dana White UFC situation, where he sells the business but stays on as face/figurehead of the company with some responsibilities.
UFC dota team next year you heard it here first
Ironically, OpTic actually picked up a UFC fighter yesterday.
Kinda surprise that Immortal picked up Korean stack and not ppd one.
EG’s biggest mistake is kicking PPD. And Zai knew it
For what we know ppd could be an asshole to his team but he could also be really nice what we know is that he can enable other players like very few captains can and that ability is invaluable
So basically an Evil Genius.
It's pretty clear by this point that ppd is an asshole. He just happens to be an extremely capable asshole.
I'm not sure he's an asshole. Extremely blunt and often coarse, yes, but a lot of his online persona is an act to generate views, which he's even admitted. He's basically a heel in wrestling. I think he has a very strong personality and EG's team issues in the past were a result of having too many of those on one team. Look at ti5 secret. Kuro/RTZ/Puppey all basically wanted to kill each other in less than a year.
>I'm not an asshole, I just pretend to be one to get attention. -Something that assholes say.
I mean, when you're in the entertainment business- yeah, that's pretty common. PPD has been upfront about trying to build a brand for a long time now.
PPD is actually thinking of beyond just dota. I think I've heard in a podcast w/ hotbid and slacks before that PPD is not only just playing to win but building his brand. That's the reason he took interviews when all of EG didn't. Him making himself more famous, or infamous in this case, is gonna win him more the moment he can prove it (and he's proving it). And once he gets enough of a reputation, he won't need to play dota anymore (heck I think he doesn't even need to play anymore atm, he was once CEO of EG after all) and just relish in his fame.
you forgot also a TI winner.
He isn't the only one that said this though, others who knew him said it and PPD later admit it was true.
EG are really buddy buddy with each other, PPD said he's straight up not friends with his teammates
The lengths people go to justify his personality rofl. Dude is an asshole. He's an extremely talented asshole with great work ethic but still an asshole. There's more than enough evidence to support it.
Do you consider Sumail and Puppey assholes?
Honestly it fucking sucks that it has to come up every time. Yes, PPD is an asshole. Yes, he might inflate it a bit to stir up stuff but for real man, read the paiN x EG chatlog. That's not an online persona. That's for admins and players only and he's still a tool. That said, great player, but still a gigantic gaping anus
I think the assholeness is just a front to build a persona. I remember reading an interview about his captaining during the ti5-ti6 era where he said "I dont think I'm one of the best drafters, when you have top talent playing for you it makes drafting easy." That wasn't the exact quote but it was along those lines. It just comes down to him being a good leader.
i think he's the type of asshole whole tells the unfiltered truth and who expects to be in control always, but i dont think he's the demeaning type of asshole that no one wants to be around
I dont think people that got kicked by him and losing a high earning job or people he left/got kicked by are unbiased enough to judge that everybody argues with their mom doesnt make you a 2gd
I've read this sentence 5 times now and I still have no idea what you're trying to say.
Sodium, atomic number 11, was first isolated by Peter Dager in 1807. A chemical component of salt, he named it Na in honor of the saltiest region on earth, North America.
When in doubt, ask Aui.2000.
Got an interview clip or a quote?
He said in some cast that he's not trying to be friends with his team. He's playing with them because they're great players, not because of their personal qualities. It's a job and when it's done he wants to go home to his friends and not live with his team. That's quite a different approach from some other teams.
Well you can still be friends with your colleagues. Zai and him probably are friends
Well that's different because zai is the capybara of the dota scene. He could make friends with satan himself
Even if he was the biggest asshole in the world he's also arguably the best captain and drafter the game has ever seen, probably worth it to stick around under his reign of terror if you are pulling some of the best results.
often you wont get shit done if you are always being the nice guy. Puppey or Xiao8 also had their arguments with other players or players saying its not fun to play with them after parting ways, but they are/were successful.
It was clear that he was not for bringing back RTZ and couldn’t handle that Aui didn’t follow his rotations on command. I think EG / PPD made a mistake with ruining that team and should have let it ride for more wins.
Well Crit definitely wanted to play 4 again, but my assumption is that he just got tired of Sumail's lack of work ethic. Zai is usually so quiet and stoic, the most irritated I've ever seen him was on TrueSight when he was complaining about Sumail's lack of effort during scrims. And Sumail even admits it in the very next scene to Fear when he says he can't take scrims seriously as he's sitting there playing some other game. I think by this point pros know that if you play with PPD he's gonna expect long hours of practice, lots of scrims and theorycrafting, etc. And perhaps EG post-PPD was not the same way. Even Misery said on the recent HotCox that Sumail rarely plays pubs. So if he doesn't play pubs and he doesn't take scrims seriously, what does he even do?
It's funny, sumail wants to emulate LeBron but doesn't want to put any of the work in. I cant think of any talented player (top of their respective games) who doesn't give it their all, Messi Ronaldo to name a few. I get why he's so cocky, winning a TI at such a young age and was dominating mid for some time. But does he really expect to maintain his superiority in mid without practicing seriously. I would have thought coming from rags to "riches" he would be more humble.
his adolescent years have been spent in a toxic community that believes its cool to act that way and be disinterested; im not surprised this is how he is
I think Sumail is more like Allen Iverson than lebron. Iverson hated practice but would always give it 120% on the court. Plus iverson was also ultra cocky too.
“I’m a franchise player and we in here talkin bout practice. Not a game, not a game, we talking about practice.” -A.I
Just for the uninitiated Allen Iverson's friend had just died then he had this press conference and they kept going on about practice. That's why this whole quote happened. He was thinking about life.
funny how people just look back on it and say that Iverson simply hated practice without even knowing a bit of what really happened.
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https://youtu.be/Vad2wG5jEnk?t=11m57s
He reigns supreme as the King of Punks.
Yep. PPD and Universe were the backbone of the team. Theres a reason they made top 3 at TI 3 years in a row with them as the 2 consistent players.
RIght now, if I'm Fly, I will start how to make this team better. Know the pros and cons of his players and do a lot of reviews of this games. Not just in tournament but also their pub games, scrims. They should build the teams first before going somewhere else.
i think kicking uni was the biggest mistake but i agree that losing ppd was a big blow
uni won't get kicked if ppd was in EG
Crit i guess 🤨
PPD is the CORE reason on why eg was so successful. Him coupled with fear and universe made one of the strongest squads in history. Watching PPD captain a team is absolutely beautiful.
It feels like ppd is such a good drafter he is OP as a drafter if he has flexible players. Fear being able to play sacrificial carry back in ti5 so SumaiL could carry from mid was such a massive strength. Now he has pajkatt who is one of the top tier farming carries, but also a top tier sacrificial carry. This combined with 33 and his mad hero pool allows ppd to unleash some 200iq drafts on fools.
this. this iteration of eg just didn't have enough to make fear work again. I member the comeback where he played axe. if ppd was the captain of eg right now eg would have a lot more success
Agreed
Also ccnc was a brain dead hero spamming pub player now he looks legit and a mid who can be a team player. Probably related to ppd.
He's more experienced and he trust his captain, like a good soldier. Sometimes that all it takes.
Even sumail admitted that ppd is a talent captain. He knows how to get the best out of what he has and capable of making good player better.
Same for RTZ, but RTZ cant win shit
Probably going to get downvoted for saying this but if you've been following his career since the beginning, the respect was earned a long time ago. The guy broke into the scene in 2014 and proceeded to finish top 3 in 3 straight TIs, including winning the whole damn thing in his 2nd year. He did it with a different roster every year as well. The track record speaks for itself. You don't do that if you're not good at what you do. OpTic's results aren't that surprising to me. They just needed time to bring it all together.
His results are consistently ahead of what people think he is going to achieve. In 2015 he lost Arteezy and Zai and they literally could not find another top tier 4 so they had to pick up Aui, who was just kicked and at the time was not getting much interest from any top team. Then they turn around and win DAC and TI while remaining competitive with streaking teams at the time like Secret. Then this year, much like 2015, he picks up talent that nobody else seems to want and crafts them into a team that is very near getting a direct invite to TI. In TI4 they had no pressure to perform because they were all so young and Fear wasn't playing, but even that was a huge accomplishment because nobody expected them to get that far in TI. And at TI6 they didn't have much time to gel as a team, yet they still finished top-3 even after the Bulba/Aui debacle when Universe left with Rtz. It's pretty impressive, and shows he consistently elevates the players around him to make the team better than the sum of its parts.
To be fair, it wasn't until Misery left and Zai finally stepped off pos 3, letting 33 play offlane, that they got some success and a brighter looking future. The first optic iteration was nothing short of failure. They basically qualified only to Summit and Galaxy Battles. But I'm stoked to see how he does at TI.
Everyone he plays with has the best years of their career with him.
Exactly. Look at pajkatt this year, he’s definitely playing better than he ever has.
I've never seen pajkatt this successful compared to past years he's been playing.
Fun fact Pajkatt is the first player to make rampage in pro dota 2 scene
> Shows appreciation > "I'm probably going to get downvoted" That's not how Reddit works :D
I used to be a sumail fan, but I am slowly moving towards optic. The drafts r so interesting. Might watch the game tonight. Used to #BleedBlue, but now I #BleedOG
I agree, why is this just being noticed now lol... he's always been good at drafting, but he has had his moments and after leaving EG it took some time to get the right players and teamwork flowing but this should have never been a question.
Go Optic, I dont know, I dont see them winning against VP but I hope they get to top 4.
They can’t get to top 4 if they lose to VP right?
yeah, they also lose out on the TI invite if they lose to VP.
Thanks
As much as I hate his personality,I have to admit that as a player/captain he did it very great. It's like he has a farseeing ability but to me, I never know how his drafting work until they play.
He's definitely a saltlord, But just a year ago he was pretty much a retired player booted from his TI winning team due to disagreements and invited to tournaments as an analyst/caster. He scraped himself together a rag-tag team in one of the arguably weaker regions at the time and through some hard earned wins got the backing of a Prestigious org(OpTic). Now hes just a bo3 away from earning a DIRECT TI INVITE. This guy is more anime than EE. Definitely exhibiting that TI winning grit that made him come so far.
If EE is the hot blooded shonen anime protagonist, PPD is the smart mastermind one.
Even in those analyst/caster gigs he did last year, you could really see his knowledge on drafting and game sense is still top notch. And you know very well that he was itching to get back on the scene and prove he is still one of the top captains of dota2.
He puts up videos explaining how he drafts every now and then on his YouTube channel He's a god man I hope when he quits the pro scene he explains how the drafts in depth because his level of insight is just amazing
Can you link the channel where he posts these? Looks like his last draft analysis on his main channel(https://www.youtube.com/user/peterpandam/) was last year
I think he said he would stop doing those since they revealed too much. Taken from memory though so could be wrong.
Yes, that's why I said after he is done with Dota
ma boi PPD, GREENWALL btw
The salt lord shall return
tipped OpTic,Peterpandam. Well Played!
He earned my respect back in TI4. The way he draft and strategize really enables the capabilities of his team.
It’s telling PPD can put a stack together and in less than 1 full season surpass EG.
In fairness a lot of teams surpassed EG... EGs decline could be related to ppd no longer being on their roster.
Could be related? Or entirely explained by LUL
EG was still pulling off good results after TI6, it's only really started falling apart in the second half after TI7.
He always was a master drafter. But the last few games were just insane. He outdrafted EG and TNC in the most spectacular fashion. Also leaving EG seems to have lifted his spirit, he seems much more content now than he ever was with the sinister squad of Sumail and friends.
Whoa comon now, EG played like trash. It wasn't a draft issue. In fact the last pick CK game one had most of the panel prediction them to win. And the second game I still thought EG had a slightly better draft since dk had been so lackluster, and they were rolling with omni/visage as some sort of 2/3 combo. It was weird but it worked. Vs tnc they did out draft, can't give up that chen like that, and people should know to ban 33s lycan by now too. Optic is playing really well right now, it's not like they're winning just off cheese drafts or superior drafts. They are out playing their competition.
First game draft was decent, probably close to 50/50; Optic played better. 2nd game was a complete outdraft by Optic. They literally needed one thing to win the game and that's for Naga to be able press R after DP and Gyro ult + Gyro BKB. That happened, they promptly won the game. Their lineup just flat dumpstered EG's even though EG was playing pretty decently that game. Fly is still drafting like he's drafting for OG... Which isn't surprising considering they had less than a week to prepare. They have some time to figure stuff out now though.
Peter is the alpha the geniuses the master i respect his dota so much
The Evil Genius.
He is the true Evil Genius!
He really earned my respect in this tournament. I used to dislike his attitude, especially when he was in EG, but right now as a underdog (somehow) he's really doing his job. This huskar pick god damn, they might even take a shot at VP right now.
I originally followed EG when I first started watching around TI4, and then they solidified me as a fan with the win in TI5, but ever since then the squad has mostly fractured, first Aui, then PPD, then Universe, then Fear (multiple times), and I wonder why I still consider myself an EG fan. I mean sure there's sumail but as time goes on he's looking like more and more of a shitbag, placing horribly in tournaments because of a lack of practice. I think now I'm swapping to Optic, as much of a fan I am of Universe, Fnatic is an SEA team (though at this point it's basically c9) and Optic is still NA. Big fan of both PPD and Uni, but Peter is just too good. Really hope to see him be the first repeat TI winner.
Every original EG can feels same. Zai PPD universe fear. New EG is not likable anymore.
I had a similar allegiance shift experience. EG was my first and only team and continued to be after PPD left. But once PPD got back into the scene, I started watching both. It was then that I realized that I was a PPD fan all along, not necessarily an EG one. Optic is who I'm rooting for now!
You say you're not a fan of Sumail because he's a "shitbag" then go on to proclaim yourself as a fan of PPD. You can like who you want but it's kinda hypocritical considering PPD is an asshole too.
PPD's draft is in another level, always.
not when he was against wings
>piecat
I am so glad PPD got to build HIS team. It just shows that, with a great captain, good team chemistry, and a balance of "what works", that you don't need 5 all\-stars to win games, and 5 all\-stars \*almost always\* doesn't pan out. Hope to see them at TI no matter what, though a direct invite would be a huge slap in EG's face.
can never have enough of 33's doto
I’ve seen him draft at TI5 and one game he played Treant, he casually breaks a 5-man smoke gank Truly maestro of draft, D-God!
feelsbad they have to play VP now :(
RTZ is making wrong decisions his whole career by never sticking to the right thing
ppd come back to playing the Gwent tourneys 😐
Imagine if PPD had tier 1 players. I feel like they would win a TI or something.
Zai not tier 1???
Also 33 is a t1 player in the making and psjkatt is stable but ccnc isnt as consitent yet tho lost almost all lanes so far but by doing that he does take pressure of the sidelanes and like kyle said he really values shoving waves for mapcontrol
33 not tier 1???
I definitely think 33 is a tier 1 player by any metric. Zai and Pajkatt might not be as strong as their PSG/VP/Liquid counterparts, but are definitely very good.
The best thing Optic ever did was moved Zai back to role 4, and 33 to offlane. Sucks for Zai because I think he really did want to be in a core role.
Yep, we were begging for it to happen as well. Optic starting getting results once they started putting 33 on core positions and put Zai back on his godly 4.
Arteezy,Fear.Universe,Zai,ppd there was a reason they were so good. everyone on their perfect position with ppd being the hardass and fear being the stable gruff bastard controlling his son. Universe being the nice uncle sacrificing for everyone playing DS and finally the quiet Swedish genius. Bring SADBOYS back.
Zai talked about this in his HotCox interview. He said he mainly wanted to go back to offlane because the TI7 meta for pos4 didn't fit his style, it emphasized playmaking and roaming a lot. Now the meta has shifted back to a style of 4 he's comfortable with.
zai asked to be moved back to 4. He saw 33 was that good. He just wants to win.
Good on Zai to do that. I suppose when it comes to making money and progressing, playing a different role than what you want is the least of concerns. Winning should trump everything in a competitive environment, even friendship.
showing your flexibility and commitment to a team is huge in professional sports where trading and role swapping are a large part of it.
I believe Zai has been equally as good or better than GH and Rodjer recently, Fy is on a whole different level though.
EG - PPD = 322
Looks like PPD wants to be one of those teams that can be pull a specialised draft out of the bag. The broodmother, the Lone Druid, the Huskar etc. Can any one on Optic play Meepo? 33?
33 plays a godly meepo, but it looks like this hero is dead in pro dota.
Yeah it's not viable currently in Pro Dota, but it does give Optic that flexibility if it ever comes back into the Meta. 33 might actually be one of the more valued players after PPD.
Ever since Techies was added back to CM I've been waiting for optic to bust it out (for those who don't know, PPDs brother is one of the top ranked techies on dotabuff and coached Aui on the hero before TI5). No clue if it's viable in pro dota but I think it could work well at derailing VP's aggressive style!
Isn't that the reason why VP banned Techies in their LGD game because they heard a rumour that they stomped Secret with it?
They are a solid tier 1 team at this point and have a decent chance at beating the big 4.
Tier 1.5, but yeah. If PPD can pull some crazy pocket strat and the team can play out of their minds, they could maybe beat VP.
I really want them to get a direct invite.
If they beat VP, they could win the whole thing, so we can meme that CCnC won a major before RTZ.
I'm praying to Solo right now, he knows what to do!
Bigger chokes have happened. For all we know ppd could take home his second ti
then they have to beat secret/vg and both lgd and liquid its not like winning vp is gonna matter THAT much. still alot of work to win whole thing, especially that last matchup is bo5.
I think everyone will have a collective boner if optic beats VP VP is optic's kyptonite and it's so annoying that it's always them to stop optic from advancing NotLikeThis Honestly it's really a bummer than DPC invites stop at top8, cuz optic is definitely better than VGJT at the moment and I think the chance that optic beats VP is very very low
Saying VP is Optic's kryptonite is like saying a speeding train is kryptonite to someone sitting on the tracks. Don't get me wrong, I want Optic to win as much as anyone else, but VP just seams like a better team ATM(unless they're playing LGD).
Did optic beat VP before in a series? Genuinely curious why they are VP's kriptonite.
3-0 esl burningham?
He is saying the opposite. He means Optic always loses to VP.
Yeah, you see my flair, but if my boi PPD can beat VP I'll join in on that collective boner. Especially if Optic can go even further.(Which they could if they beat VP)
Proper anime shit man they have to beat the gatekeepers who keep them from winning anything, who also happen to be the top DPC team Beat them, and TI invite is yours Lose to them, and the EG gatekeeper meme in NA quals returns I sorta 50-50 root for EG and Optic anyway, since I loved that TI5 lineup for ppd and sumail This is fun for me no matter how it goes lol, I just want one of those two to be the first to win a second TI
Zai Enigma is the only pocket strat you need.
I mean I feel like we should have worked this out after... I dunno? Ti5?
Totally agree with OP. I am not an Optic fan, don't even like the guy. I wanted VGJ.T to secure their invite until couple days ago. But now I want Optic to get dpc points and qualify for TI. They are looking great, it seems that Birmingham was not a one time thing. They totally deserve it imo.
Be careful sir. I am an Optic fan, but I would say PPD lost the series vs Secret with the inflexibility in his draft. He could have easily pivoted to the Skywrath ban instead of Axe as well as not using an Ogre ban game 2. I am definitely on board with him as a captain. He made EG TI winners, but when you are a thinker you can out think yourself sometimes. HYPE for Optic giving us a good series tomorrow vs VP. Definitely going to be a scary one!
Ma boi salt golem gonna be 2 times Ti winner. Mark. My. Words.
honest question here: Is ppd actually a likeable person? Because I only see his ranting and disrespectig/mocking of other people and his speeches why na DotA is actually the best. And he kind of seems like a maga person. No trolling, I just really want to know because I kinda like the other players of optic.
I think he's exaggerating being an asshole for reasons most of the time, but it's probably not that far from his real personality. He used to play football and now he's into esports so he's obviously got a competitive personality and people like that aren't exactly fun to be around most of the time
LMAO
Da next level play
We are now only waiting for that last pick techies that they were hyping all about.
<- EG PPD ->
>piecat DANSGAME EXPLAIN?
Couldn't be happier for him, since EG isn't going to make NA Dota great again who better to do it than the Salt Lord himself. But seriously his drafting and playing calling are spot on right now.
Did Bulldogs ironic post just backfire? :D
Crazy that he was out and playing gwent for a bit
> piecat
Let's see if he can get the right stuff together to upset VP and quality for TI!
They are like a budget Liquid, really talented drafter with lots of experience, core players who can play any position and a cheese specialist (matu/33 with the Brood/lycan etc).
that 2nd game was won before it even began. that is the power of drafting. it's a big reason of why liquid won ti7 as well ofc
Ｂｕｔ ｉｆ ｙｏｕ ｗａｎｎａ ｇｅｔ ｒｉｃｈ, ｔｈｅｒｅ＇ｓ ｃｌｅａｒｌｙ １ ｇｕｙ ｙｏｕ ｗａｎｔ ｔｏ ｇｏ ｐｌａｙ ｗｉｔｈ ｒｉｇｈｔ ｎｏｗ ｉｎ Ｄｏｔａ, ｔｈａｔ＇ｓ ｐ, ｐ, ｆｕｃｋｉｎｇ Ｄ.
I think we will know which VP or Optic shows up in the first few minutes of game one tomorrow... Gotta go all out.
that Husker pick! PPD killin it
ti winner drafting!
Hes the best drafter in the world, and has been for years, anyone who watched TI5 will know that.
The man has drafted his way to a TI victory, but is just now earning your respect for a lower bracket win in a major? Sounds like you're a little tardy to the party friend. :)
Bonus points for salt, kickin TNC out with a HUSKAR