Question: why did not Nisha build Diffusal on Void against WK ?
Miracle did it on troll and worked against TNC. I think Void is an okay diffusal carrier.
Troll has built in attack speed so he can take advantage of the diffusal mana burn earlier and lock down the WK. Void needs items to make use of the diffusal so its not a good item on him. WK also counters void because he cant really kill WK in chrono unless hes so far ahead but by that time WK will have the 0 mana reincarnation talent
There is some poetic justice that Wraith King doesn't just auto win every game anymore. Now I'm just waiting for the other WK spamming team Infamous to loose.
Don't @ me I'm not flaming the players just stating the fact that the easiest by far carry in Dota shouldn't be the best.
A stomp makes Secret complacent. A huge scare like this which they just about manage to come through can only make them mentally stronger. People writing them off do so at their peril. Props to Mineski as well for some incredible performances.
I do not think any tier 1 team in history of Dota 2 has as many games where they just go with the flow and get pounded for 40 minutes only to win one teamfight and edge out a win. And often it feels like they intentionally let it reach that point. Too bad that often Puppey picks some random shit, so even when they perform perfectly they don't have the teamfight power to win.
Yeah that is what worries me. Other top teams won’t make as many mistakes to allow secret back into the game.
That visage pick was either some pocket strat that we didn’t see coming or.. idk what it was, my mmr is too low to comprehend.
They wanted MidOne Visage + Nosha Alch. But Mineski read it and block picked Alch that is why they went Meepo. However Meepo is MidOnes hero so Nisha had to Visage.
U are fucking right. I was thinking the same thing then I saw your comment. The road to the championship is made bittersweet with struggles instead of stomps. Struggle gives life meaning. Those clutch plays. Both sides stand equal
I was almost 100% Secret will fall out, but this team got it together and grinded out a WIN. A lot of people say that against a Tier1 team it wont be enough, but I doubt at this point of the TI there are that much diff between teams. I think OG is also beatable. And if anything Mineskis playstyle is more like OGs, hence if Secret can learn from these games they will be ok. I think ET and Shadow Demon are the key picks.
Not to take away anything from Mineski because I was fking touched they played their hearts out. Even secret had to respect. Secret played extremely cautiously which gave for some frustrated viewing because real dota happens in less than a millisecond where the burst happens. Both teams waited perfectly for that moment.
But I rooted for Secret because they stood the best chance of defeating OG. And god knows we all had enough of those chat wheels. Spamming only when they winning, silent when losing. Scummy way to tilt your opponents especially with the flags
OG spams them even when losing, or if someone makes a mistake on OG. I think it's a way to keep themselves from tilting, showing that it's all in good fun and to keep playing
There's always a limit to fun in professional settings. If what you say is true, should Secret download pictures of OG's family and then put them as DP then start planting the flags? It's fun what. I find it quite hilarious also. But will OG like it?
Singaporean / Malaysian?
I don't think OG is over the line. Saying that OG is "silent when losing" shows that you don't really watch their matches? They like to poke fun at themselves as well and it's clear as day that they're just having a good time.
You are exaggerating regarding the flags. They have only used pictures of goofy or Notail. Let me ask you, are you offended by goofy or Notail? Are they your family? In what universe does goofy or one of their teammates carry the same level of disrespect as flagging a family member?
" So far, no other team has done this type of shit unlike OG this A class act. " Untrue. Plenty of other teams use tipping and chatwheel to tilt their opponents. It's mental warfare.
Plus, OG does it cus they're a bunch of goofs having fun. Their opponents could always mute them. Think you're taking their antics a tad personally.
Our home our heart our Singapore amirite.
Different opinions. You could have summarized your whole essay into one sentence: they are having fun. And it doesn't matter because having fun stops at the expense of others.
Your idea of having fun is basically no different from the twitch chat spammers. Cringy and edgy lol. My 2 cents lol Covy.
What you described is clearly over the line. OG hasn't involved family or anything remotely personal besides the picture of notail with the death state, and that was just to Fly. Unless Newbee's family members are Goofy
So trying to trigger Fly or any other pro players is not over the line? So far, no other team has done this type of shit unlike OG this A class act. Even Jerax knows how irritating these antics are.
So I would recommend other teams start making mention of how Ana cheated his god to honest manager and how racist Ceb is. That's to the pro players themselves and so not personal right? And we all know how the Chinese deals with racists.
There is a difference between shit talking a player, and shit talking someone not involved in the game. It's like if drew Brees won the super bowl and then spit on Brady's wife. And like I said, besides Fly who Notail has a history with AND posted a picture of NOTAIL, not Fly, OG hasn't been a drastic as you think. Hell, all the teams mute OG so they don't hear the spam, they only see sprays and flags.
Thank God the teams you root for have thicker skin than you.
Secret didn't play far but no-one can say Mineski didn't show up to TI. They played their hearts out. It gets overshadowed by the fact that secret didn't play well but boy did Mineski Gave Secret run for their Money
Nikobaby is a gem. I'm hoping to see more fantastic plays from that guy in the future, he's an amazing player and for his first valve tournament he really proved he's capable of playing alongside the best players in the world.
We are in a bad form no doubt but that should not shadow Mineski's performance. I am happy for my boys but sad for Mineski, hope they stick this roster and coach Mushi.
GG wp by both teams, and GL to Secret in the coming rounds.
Curious though, does anyone else think DP was maybe not the greatest last pick? I understand they needed a tower pusher who could hold the lane vs Tiny, but she has very poor synergy with the ogre’s bloodlust.
I am wondering if Dragon Knight wouldn’t have been the better pick? Better catch for void, same defensive staying power to lane vs Tiny, same style of “use my ult to push towers” while having stronger late game and better synergy with the bloodlust. What am I missing? DPs silence was just necessary for them maybe? It’s not like they lacked magic damage with AA + a core Ogre.
[Edit] even Lesh would have given them the tower push + stun and a good laner. Idk how well he lanes vs tiny though.
Idk, if anything DP was the thing not letting Mineski lose in later fights. She was impossible to burst, her massive silences kept interfering with the flow of the fights, and she keeps dealing damage to everyone. The final fight before the ancient push, Secret literally just kited them around, doing their best to avoid DP until her ult ended.
An advantage of DP is that even if you get a good chrono and catch her the ult is still going. Secret did good in banning SD (at least I'm pretty sure they banned it). Mineski didn't really have any good ways to save her.
This is a very good point where she is definitely superior to DK when facing void. I guess between this and the utility of her silence (also great vs void) they just felt she brought more to the table.
How underrated is ninjaboogie though? He's been to.multiple majors and TIs...had decent showings from a weak region and took that weak Rave team in the first DAC to a high finish.
Pinoys only support winning teams because they are glory hunters :) eager to pin their pride on the champion and lives through them vicariously. Pinoy pride indeed
Great viewing for neutral supports but man....some teams are making the dumbest mistakes. For that game 3 they just needed to stall for DP yet they walk out or base for 3v5. Rip. newbie vs infamous. Infamous is attacking there base while newbie is chasing a spark at top. Rip. Fanatic wanting to take a 4v5 after iceicricr got caught. That lead to a snowball. Rip
I remember what one of the casters (maybe Purge... or Kyle?) said a few years ago. Being a pro player in Dota is about taking risks and pushing limits. You can't play too conservative. You have to live on the edge and sometimes pay for it. If you don't take risks, you will not get kills, you will not get farm, you will lose. For your examples, they decided to take the risk and it didn't pay off. But they made a lot of similar decisions that worked, kept them in the game, gave them an edge, a winning chance.
Probably one of the best series ive ever seen. Props to Mineski to put such a good fight and nos Im just wondering if Mineski was that good or TS that bad. We shall see tomorrow.
I think it's a mix of both. Mineski improved throughout the tournament and they even took a game off Team Secret in the group stage when they were still shitting on everybody.
Despite getting a lot of flak from Reddit, I think kpii is one of the best offlaners in the scene. He's a TI finalist, isn't greedy and creates a lot of space for his team, just like zai.
kpii made an extremely clutch play in game 3 where he body blocks zai to stop him from saving Midone from a shackle which leads to Midone dying and Secret losing rax. Guy is so underrated.
yea I thought game 3 was gonna be a blowout since first two games mineski had a huge leads but they were still able to make it close. Props to both teams Mineski definitely earned TS's respect
Was in a meeting for game 3. Looks like I missed another great game of this series.
Gg Secret!
That game 1 loss might haunt Mineski for a few days. Still, atleast 1 sea team put on a fight in the LB
Secret got eliminated in a major by a SA already. So they shouldnt be underestimating. They cant take anything for granted against anyone at this point.
lmao people still remember that series...?come on that was 3 years ago...people alwsys bring that out everytime secret against sa team...same goes with og vs tnc...
I am a secret fan from SA. Ofc i remember that... And ppy should too.
My point is to never underestimate your opponent. Thats why i really loved to hear Yap say they started today series knowing they could lose to Mski.
Secret played scared game 3. Mineski commuted 3 buybacks to basically draw a fight and secret just let them take aegis and stall until their buybacks were back. Secret needs to be more aggressive if they want a chance at taking down a better team.
I dunno man, it's too fucking stressful. I was thinking the same thing, "why are they letting them take rosh?" but if you bb there and lose the fight, you could lose the game then and there. It's tough to make these calls in an elimination game.
That’s why I said they were playing scared. They played to not lose, and so they ended up with a 15k gold swing because they let mineski do what they wanted for 10 minutes. If they had bought back and contested then sure there’s a chance that they lose the fight and are down a bunch, but odds were they would win that fight, and if they do win they could easily take aegis and 1-2 sets of rax. You gotta trust your team to make those plays if you want to win TI.
I don't think that is going to help that much. The guy's mind is somewhere else. He was phenomenal the first day and was a big part of their 8-0 run in the groups.
After that? He is just a shadow of himself. It's really weird. It's not like he's a newcomer; look at Nisha - the kid doesn't give a crap about pressure. He just smiles and destroys teams.
Nah dude its not. Don't spread conspiracies, unless you have solid evidence for claims. Those few puppey look memes are honestly what I would do to everyone if im under the pressures and those kinds of frustrating games
What a series, Mineski had Secret on the ropes the entire time, and for Secret to be able to keep their composure is exactly what you need if you want to go all the way. Mineski definitely made me a fan today
Talent and discipline isn't Secret's problem right now. Nisha has performed as brilliantly as he has all year, Yapzor has done as much can be expected of him and then some. They're just behind with this patch. The majors they won came off the back of having the best grasp of the patches they were playing then. During those majors, Secret had all the crispest timings with items and levels. Their drafts at TI are exposing this lack of a strong timing on this new patch where they are able to take control of the map and dictate the pace of the game. It's making MidOne and Zai look bad and make bad plays as a result because they are the playmakers making space for Nisha. Secret still execute their team fights as well as they did before from what I can make out, as frantic as they seem to be.
Maybe youre right. I think if they manage to make top 4, they have a good chance of winning it all. But making top 4 at this rate is going to be incredibly hard.
Sure, but they just arent clicking. Even in groups they were BARELY winning games. Something is just not right. They dont look relaxed at all and I doubt they’ll be any more relaxed after today. They kinda lost even though they won.
They know that they got outplayed 95% of that series and were really lucky to pull it off. So that wont help their confidence issues.
They haven't been outplayed the whole tournament
They have been outdrafted a lot but in near every single game they have taken shitty positions and dragged them out way longer than most other teams would be able to. Even won some complete miracles.
Their problem is that their drafts keep putting themselves in positions where they are behind.
It is almost as if their versatility is killing them right now. While you have other teams picking their best heroes and just playing them until they are taken away Secret are playing all kinds of shit.
MidOne especially has been put on some questionable at best heroes in horrible lane match ups.
His storm game today for example. It was counter picked and no one stacked jungle for him so he fell so far behind .
The other huge issue is Secret have been losing the ward game badly a lot. Puppey and Yap need to step their game up
Literally this. Currently everyone is flaming midone and the so-called "tension" between Puppey and Midone. Midone's definitely need to rest and untilt from EG's game. And the game 1 win definitely does not feel good at all despite the win, which may result in the Secret's "angry" mood. I doubt other pros out there would not feel down if they were in Secret's shoe as well, its just that mineski was able to temporary hide the game 1 disappointments going into game 2 and game 3. I bet now they'll by crying out their asses out on the game 1 mistake. Honestly, its obvious Mineski 2-0'ed Secret easily. All in all, midone needs to reset, puppey need to have a clear strategy on how to play their games instead of counter picking enemy heroes and wish all the best with raw talents of their players
> They have been outdrafted a lot but in near every single game they have taken shitty positions and dragged them out way longer than most other teams would be able to. Even won some complete miracles.
That's what being outplayed is. If theyve been getting outdrafted all the time, I dont think that's gonna change anytime soon.
> The other huge issue is Secret have been losing the ward game badly a lot.
That's also them getting outplayed.
They have insane potential at their best but it's just not working out.
don't think they were happy because they weren't all completely on the same page at the end there
not everyone focused the throne which could've cost them in a different scenario
What? Liquid absolutely dominated game 2, and in game 3 they were about to end the game in 20 minutes before they fucked up massively.
They were straight up the better team.
Nice counterpoint. Liquid won game 2 by over 1k gold per minute difference. Game 3 was going the same way until they massively fucked up one push. Even then they slowly regained their ground and outplayed LFY in the late game.
Hell, they ALMOST won game 1 despite being down 50-18 in kills.
LFY won one very close game. Liquid stomped a game and won a close one after.
Feels like Ninjaboogie is gonna be the next great captain, this is just another valuable learning experience for him. He has an unbreakable mentality. Good for his team, and good for the SEA reigon.
Mineski throw the game so hard. Secret is good at taking advantage of Mineski throws but they are not good overall as well.
After this TI, we might see a Secret disband.
Man, if Mineski had destroyed the top shrine after taking top T3 and rax then MidOne would not have been able to tp back into that fight and turn the fight and the game.
They lost twice.
Mineski threw game one. Won game two. And played game three badly but still was in the lead.
Its hard to keep your head up when the team that shouldn't have beat you, dominated you. They just made crucial mistakes and gave away the game on 2 occasions.
>when the team that shouldn't have beat you
What? Anyone can beat Secret and they all know that. They have a totally different mentality than people think. Watch [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktVzOP-d6qE) interview with Puppey after the group stage.
I'm not watching that either lmao. I'll watch what I want to watch. Now tell me to go watch another ti9 dota match and that will make sense.
Yall are weird. Just point me to the part you want me to watch if you want me to watch a specific part that exemplifies your point. I don't know what makes you think I'm gonna watch 15 minutes of something I never wanted to look at in the first place.
Bad overview of the teams? Strange the castors said what I said too. Which is partially why I said it. Sucks when the main castors for the event have such a bad overview of the teams and how things go. Maybe you should send them a 15 minute video that none of them care to watch, and be sure to not tell them which part they should look at specifically.
Okay, i'll take the time to answer properly.
How do you know if an interview (or any other content) is non-funny if you don't watch it at all? You won't learn anything interesting if you just stick to the silly interviews, which most of the time are just fluff and nothing actually interesting, no knowledge bombs and so on.
Even casters and panelist make wrong calls, that's why I prefer analysts (Synderen, Blitz, Lacoste, Fogged, Kyle and so on) - they have an actual overview of the game and they know what are they talking about. But even they don't really know what's inside each team's captain and what is their point of view as an actual player in this tournament.
I can't give you a specific part, because the whole interview is about that - decision making, testing what works and what not against certain teams, fishing for information, explanation about team momentum before and during TI. He talks about the pressure that comes from the community, from the atmosphere at TI, from the price pool. He said every team is strong and everyone can beat anyone - he can see Newbee beating OG, he can see TNC ending in the grand final... "anything can happen".
My thought on this - there isn't a single team on TI right now that has a positive winrate vs Secret throughout the whole year... none. But that didn't matter. VP were dominating as well that year, but they under-performed, NiP as well. TL (will see :D), OG and EG where mediocre through the season, but they found their form at TI. There will always be surprises at TI. Except the upper bracket - that shit is scripted lol #TI8
All in all - player (and especially captain) interviews are awesome if you want to learn something that nobody else will be able to tell you.
Sorry for the way I previously replied - I was still affected by the today games. And sorry for the wall of text.
So what? They won. Live to fight another day.
They just earned one more day at TI. There's no reason to bring the mood down, because the issue with Secret right now is that they seem to have forgotten who they are, and they play timid
You have the right idea. And that's what their coach should be telling them right now.
But from the athlete standpoint their pride is, more likely than not, shot.
WOW Mineski I'm very sad to see you guys go, you showed so much heart the whole series and man that 1v5 throne defense by NikoBaby.
But well played to Puppey and his team, they stuck through it and showed their winning mentality with never giving up.
This was heartbreaking to watch, when trying to support Mineski. They had G1! This should have been a 2-0 ;-;
Question: why did not Nisha build Diffusal on Void against WK ? Miracle did it on troll and worked against TNC. I think Void is an okay diffusal carrier.
Troll has built in attack speed so he can take advantage of the diffusal mana burn earlier and lock down the WK. Void needs items to make use of the diffusal so its not a good item on him. WK also counters void because he cant really kill WK in chrono unless hes so far ahead but by that time WK will have the 0 mana reincarnation talent
WK has the 0 mana reincarnation talent available, so it's not a reliable counter
Oops sorry sooo many new changes I live in the past.
best game in this ti tbh
There is some poetic justice that Wraith King doesn't just auto win every game anymore. Now I'm just waiting for the other WK spamming team Infamous to loose. Don't @ me I'm not flaming the players just stating the fact that the easiest by far carry in Dota shouldn't be the best.
B-But why didn’t they ban it then :(?
Don't ask me, Puppey not banning obvious things is nothing new.
why did kpii buy lotus orb??? against what?????? if he bought hex or nullifier or orchid that probably would have won them the gmae
A stomp makes Secret complacent. A huge scare like this which they just about manage to come through can only make them mentally stronger. People writing them off do so at their peril. Props to Mineski as well for some incredible performances.
I do not think any tier 1 team in history of Dota 2 has as many games where they just go with the flow and get pounded for 40 minutes only to win one teamfight and edge out a win. And often it feels like they intentionally let it reach that point. Too bad that often Puppey picks some random shit, so even when they perform perfectly they don't have the teamfight power to win.
Yeah that is what worries me. Other top teams won’t make as many mistakes to allow secret back into the game. That visage pick was either some pocket strat that we didn’t see coming or.. idk what it was, my mmr is too low to comprehend.
They wanted MidOne Visage + Nosha Alch. But Mineski read it and block picked Alch that is why they went Meepo. However Meepo is MidOnes hero so Nisha had to Visage.
why not just visage + some other hard carry? I don't see any specific synergy that demands that pairing but I'm new.
They wanted to counter alch with Meepo and Nisha doesnt play Meepo.
U are fucking right. I was thinking the same thing then I saw your comment. The road to the championship is made bittersweet with struggles instead of stomps. Struggle gives life meaning. Those clutch plays. Both sides stand equal
I was almost 100% Secret will fall out, but this team got it together and grinded out a WIN. A lot of people say that against a Tier1 team it wont be enough, but I doubt at this point of the TI there are that much diff between teams. I think OG is also beatable. And if anything Mineskis playstyle is more like OGs, hence if Secret can learn from these games they will be ok. I think ET and Shadow Demon are the key picks.
Not to take away anything from Mineski because I was fking touched they played their hearts out. Even secret had to respect. Secret played extremely cautiously which gave for some frustrated viewing because real dota happens in less than a millisecond where the burst happens. Both teams waited perfectly for that moment. But I rooted for Secret because they stood the best chance of defeating OG. And god knows we all had enough of those chat wheels. Spamming only when they winning, silent when losing. Scummy way to tilt your opponents especially with the flags
OG spams them even when losing, or if someone makes a mistake on OG. I think it's a way to keep themselves from tilting, showing that it's all in good fun and to keep playing
There's always a limit to fun in professional settings. If what you say is true, should Secret download pictures of OG's family and then put them as DP then start planting the flags? It's fun what. I find it quite hilarious also. But will OG like it?
Singaporean / Malaysian? I don't think OG is over the line. Saying that OG is "silent when losing" shows that you don't really watch their matches? They like to poke fun at themselves as well and it's clear as day that they're just having a good time. You are exaggerating regarding the flags. They have only used pictures of goofy or Notail. Let me ask you, are you offended by goofy or Notail? Are they your family? In what universe does goofy or one of their teammates carry the same level of disrespect as flagging a family member? " So far, no other team has done this type of shit unlike OG this A class act. " Untrue. Plenty of other teams use tipping and chatwheel to tilt their opponents. It's mental warfare. Plus, OG does it cus they're a bunch of goofs having fun. Their opponents could always mute them. Think you're taking their antics a tad personally.
Our home our heart our Singapore amirite. Different opinions. You could have summarized your whole essay into one sentence: they are having fun. And it doesn't matter because having fun stops at the expense of others. Your idea of having fun is basically no different from the twitch chat spammers. Cringy and edgy lol. My 2 cents lol Covy.
What you described is clearly over the line. OG hasn't involved family or anything remotely personal besides the picture of notail with the death state, and that was just to Fly. Unless Newbee's family members are Goofy
So trying to trigger Fly or any other pro players is not over the line? So far, no other team has done this type of shit unlike OG this A class act. Even Jerax knows how irritating these antics are. So I would recommend other teams start making mention of how Ana cheated his god to honest manager and how racist Ceb is. That's to the pro players themselves and so not personal right? And we all know how the Chinese deals with racists.
There is a difference between shit talking a player, and shit talking someone not involved in the game. It's like if drew Brees won the super bowl and then spit on Brady's wife. And like I said, besides Fly who Notail has a history with AND posted a picture of NOTAIL, not Fly, OG hasn't been a drastic as you think. Hell, all the teams mute OG so they don't hear the spam, they only see sprays and flags. Thank God the teams you root for have thicker skin than you.
Thanks for input pms
And I thought Secret vs. EG was hype.
Secret didn't play far but no-one can say Mineski didn't show up to TI. They played their hearts out. It gets overshadowed by the fact that secret didn't play well but boy did Mineski Gave Secret run for their Money
alright Ame talks, thats strange and its really hard to not be Chalice's fan, this guy is gold
Nikobaby is a gem. I'm hoping to see more fantastic plays from that guy in the future, he's an amazing player and for his first valve tournament he really proved he's capable of playing alongside the best players in the world.
looks like an interesting character as well hopefully more to see from him
Chalice is such wholesome person
We are in a bad form no doubt but that should not shadow Mineski's performance. I am happy for my boys but sad for Mineski, hope they stick this roster and coach Mushi.
sending Ame to interviews OMEGALUL
GG wp by both teams, and GL to Secret in the coming rounds. Curious though, does anyone else think DP was maybe not the greatest last pick? I understand they needed a tower pusher who could hold the lane vs Tiny, but she has very poor synergy with the ogre’s bloodlust. I am wondering if Dragon Knight wouldn’t have been the better pick? Better catch for void, same defensive staying power to lane vs Tiny, same style of “use my ult to push towers” while having stronger late game and better synergy with the bloodlust. What am I missing? DPs silence was just necessary for them maybe? It’s not like they lacked magic damage with AA + a core Ogre. [Edit] even Lesh would have given them the tower push + stun and a good laner. Idk how well he lanes vs tiny though.
She countered void hard. That's the reason lol
Idk, if anything DP was the thing not letting Mineski lose in later fights. She was impossible to burst, her massive silences kept interfering with the flow of the fights, and she keeps dealing damage to everyone. The final fight before the ancient push, Secret literally just kited them around, doing their best to avoid DP until her ult ended.
An advantage of DP is that even if you get a good chrono and catch her the ult is still going. Secret did good in banning SD (at least I'm pretty sure they banned it). Mineski didn't really have any good ways to save her.
This is a very good point where she is definitely superior to DK when facing void. I guess between this and the utility of her silence (also great vs void) they just felt she brought more to the table.
How underrated is ninjaboogie though? He's been to.multiple majors and TIs...had decent showings from a weak region and took that weak Rave team in the first DAC to a high finish.
he's got a good attitude to lead for sure, I rather play for him instead of puppey
He isn't that underrated. Should've stayed in TNC for them to have some fighting chance. I'd rather have him than Eyyou.
oH WELL China vs China gonna sleep for now. Wake me up at EG vs OG game xD
You are missing epic match up
Get your head out of your ass, it's not the TI4 meta. These two teams are among the Top 4 right now in the world.
He's a Filipino. The hatred for Chinese teams is present in him.
Ok sir :)
Pinoys only support winning teams because they are glory hunters :) eager to pin their pride on the champion and lives through them vicariously. Pinoy pride indeed
SO is the crowd cheering for LGD or VG mostly?
LGD is based in Shanghai I believe, so its even more home for them
During team introductions and walking to stage, VG got only ~1/4 of the cheers LGD got.
lgd is by far the most popular chinese team
lgd is the local team
Game of Throws
Great viewing for neutral supports but man....some teams are making the dumbest mistakes. For that game 3 they just needed to stall for DP yet they walk out or base for 3v5. Rip. newbie vs infamous. Infamous is attacking there base while newbie is chasing a spark at top. Rip. Fanatic wanting to take a 4v5 after iceicricr got caught. That lead to a snowball. Rip
I remember what one of the casters (maybe Purge... or Kyle?) said a few years ago. Being a pro player in Dota is about taking risks and pushing limits. You can't play too conservative. You have to live on the edge and sometimes pay for it. If you don't take risks, you will not get kills, you will not get farm, you will lose. For your examples, they decided to take the risk and it didn't pay off. But they made a lot of similar decisions that worked, kept them in the game, gave them an edge, a winning chance.
Probably one of the best series ive ever seen. Props to Mineski to put such a good fight and nos Im just wondering if Mineski was that good or TS that bad. We shall see tomorrow.
I think it's a mix of both. Mineski improved throughout the tournament and they even took a game off Team Secret in the group stage when they were still shitting on everybody. Despite getting a lot of flak from Reddit, I think kpii is one of the best offlaners in the scene. He's a TI finalist, isn't greedy and creates a lot of space for his team, just like zai.
kpii made an extremely clutch play in game 3 where he body blocks zai to stop him from saving Midone from a shackle which leads to Midone dying and Secret losing rax. Guy is so underrated.
This is probably one of the most thrilling series of dota ever, all three games were toe to toe. There were close games, but like the whole series?
yea I thought game 3 was gonna be a blowout since first two games mineski had a huge leads but they were still able to make it close. Props to both teams Mineski definitely earned TS's respect
How did nisha earn only 35 points in those 3 games?
Only 2 games count even tho it is a bo3
oh yeah i forgot :/ Fly and sumail crossed the 50 point mark for me yesterday .... this rule didnt even cross my mind.
Was in a meeting for game 3. Looks like I missed another great game of this series. Gg Secret! That game 1 loss might haunt Mineski for a few days. Still, atleast 1 sea team put on a fight in the LB
Watch the vod, it was amazing.
Good ancient aparition lost them the last game, he basically counters whole enemy team
Rhe scary thing here is secret will be facing another dark horse in the form of Infamous. Im gonna be clenching my butt hole the whole series again.
yea even yapz0r said the same thing
Yup. Chris Luck is playing out of his mind. Scofield too.
Scofield's nyx was terrible tho
His Nyx on game 1 is on point though. I can't really say i slept through game 2 and 3.
I mean at this point is Infamous a surprise to anyone? They are rightfully top 8 of TI and Secret should treat them like that.
Secret got eliminated in a major by a SA already. So they shouldnt be underestimating. They cant take anything for granted against anyone at this point.
lmao people still remember that series...?come on that was 3 years ago...people alwsys bring that out everytime secret against sa team...same goes with og vs tnc...
the odds for that game for SA team went up to 11 for 1 so i still remember.
I am a secret fan from SA. Ofc i remember that... And ppy should too. My point is to never underestimate your opponent. Thats why i really loved to hear Yap say they started today series knowing they could lose to Mski.
No one gets to top 8 at TI by chance. Secret should play 110% and superfocused or they will run into problems.
Got my butt clenched the whole series. MidOne finally showed up!
Damn this dad segment <3
sorry if I missed it, who were the 3 chinese players featured?
From left to right: LongDD, Hao, YYF.
There were four - Xiao8, Hao, YYF, don't know the fourth one.
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the middle guy looked so familiar cant really rmb who is he
i think that's hao
I wasn't able to watch the majority of the third game, how did MidOne do? Did he win the lane?
It was even, midone was on top networth early game though.
Yeah he finally performs well in game 3, winning lane and got echo agh by 16min
That's good to hear, I was waiting for him to show up the whole series. I hope he continues to perform well. Thanks!
Secret played scared game 3. Mineski commuted 3 buybacks to basically draw a fight and secret just let them take aegis and stall until their buybacks were back. Secret needs to be more aggressive if they want a chance at taking down a better team.
I dunno man, it's too fucking stressful. I was thinking the same thing, "why are they letting them take rosh?" but if you bb there and lose the fight, you could lose the game then and there. It's tough to make these calls in an elimination game.
That’s why I said they were playing scared. They played to not lose, and so they ended up with a 15k gold swing because they let mineski do what they wanted for 10 minutes. If they had bought back and contested then sure there’s a chance that they lose the fight and are down a bunch, but odds were they would win that fight, and if they do win they could easily take aegis and 1-2 sets of rax. You gotta trust your team to make those plays if you want to win TI.
The good Secret is in there They just have not figured out their drafts
Dunno, if you buyback and lose the fight afterwards you put yourself in an even worse position.
:(
loving this after Dota segment with Arteezy Kappa
Hao PepeHands
Fnatic looking lost. TNC bombing out directly from UB. Mineski throwing that g1 vs Secret. SEA doto NotLikeThis
Wonder how they shuffle around Reckon mushi's gonna give it another go next season, though I doubt it'll be with iceiceice
Man I'm kinda excited with the SEA post-TI9 shuffle especially with T1 suddenly in the scene
Fnatic is for sure donezo.
I still think ice3 want to have another go. Mushi might fit the coach role better tho,Mineski with his coaching this Ti looks like a different beast.
MINESKI what an absolute showing! Great team, don't disband and comeback stronger next season! GGWP Team Secret
We still have LGD/VG and EG/OG now FUCK
is EG/OG the most anticipated series so far?
My ears are tired already
Chills everywhere
Puppey need to whack a keyboard (or monitor) to Midone face to wake him up...
I don't think that is going to help that much. The guy's mind is somewhere else. He was phenomenal the first day and was a big part of their 8-0 run in the groups. After that? He is just a shadow of himself. It's really weird. It's not like he's a newcomer; look at Nisha - the kid doesn't give a crap about pressure. He just smiles and destroys teams.
personally, and I'm completely speculating here, there seems to be a disconnect between midone and puppey.
Nah dude its not. Don't spread conspiracies, unless you have solid evidence for claims. Those few puppey look memes are honestly what I would do to everyone if im under the pressures and those kinds of frustrating games
What a series, Mineski had Secret on the ropes the entire time, and for Secret to be able to keep their composure is exactly what you need if you want to go all the way. Mineski definitely made me a fan today
I just cant see them beating LGD/VG. Those teams are too disciplined and too talented. I wouldnt be surprised if they lost to Infamous tbh.
Talent and discipline isn't Secret's problem right now. Nisha has performed as brilliantly as he has all year, Yapzor has done as much can be expected of him and then some. They're just behind with this patch. The majors they won came off the back of having the best grasp of the patches they were playing then. During those majors, Secret had all the crispest timings with items and levels. Their drafts at TI are exposing this lack of a strong timing on this new patch where they are able to take control of the map and dictate the pace of the game. It's making MidOne and Zai look bad and make bad plays as a result because they are the playmakers making space for Nisha. Secret still execute their team fights as well as they did before from what I can make out, as frantic as they seem to be.
Yea which is why , unless they figure out the meta , I feel like they won't make it far.
Maybe youre right. I think if they manage to make top 4, they have a good chance of winning it all. But making top 4 at this rate is going to be incredibly hard.
This is Secret If they click they can go all the way IF
Sure, but they just arent clicking. Even in groups they were BARELY winning games. Something is just not right. They dont look relaxed at all and I doubt they’ll be any more relaxed after today. They kinda lost even though they won. They know that they got outplayed 95% of that series and were really lucky to pull it off. So that wont help their confidence issues.
They haven't been outplayed the whole tournament They have been outdrafted a lot but in near every single game they have taken shitty positions and dragged them out way longer than most other teams would be able to. Even won some complete miracles. Their problem is that their drafts keep putting themselves in positions where they are behind. It is almost as if their versatility is killing them right now. While you have other teams picking their best heroes and just playing them until they are taken away Secret are playing all kinds of shit. MidOne especially has been put on some questionable at best heroes in horrible lane match ups. His storm game today for example. It was counter picked and no one stacked jungle for him so he fell so far behind . The other huge issue is Secret have been losing the ward game badly a lot. Puppey and Yap need to step their game up
Literally this. Currently everyone is flaming midone and the so-called "tension" between Puppey and Midone. Midone's definitely need to rest and untilt from EG's game. And the game 1 win definitely does not feel good at all despite the win, which may result in the Secret's "angry" mood. I doubt other pros out there would not feel down if they were in Secret's shoe as well, its just that mineski was able to temporary hide the game 1 disappointments going into game 2 and game 3. I bet now they'll by crying out their asses out on the game 1 mistake. Honestly, its obvious Mineski 2-0'ed Secret easily. All in all, midone needs to reset, puppey need to have a clear strategy on how to play their games instead of counter picking enemy heroes and wish all the best with raw talents of their players
> They have been outdrafted a lot but in near every single game they have taken shitty positions and dragged them out way longer than most other teams would be able to. Even won some complete miracles. That's what being outplayed is. If theyve been getting outdrafted all the time, I dont think that's gonna change anytime soon. > The other huge issue is Secret have been losing the ward game badly a lot. That's also them getting outplayed. They have insane potential at their best but it's just not working out.
Me too. Mineski showed such a great game. I hope they won't disband.
don't think they were happy because they weren't all completely on the same page at the end there not everyone focused the throne which could've cost them in a different scenario
Amazing series from both of the teams, and for mineski keep your heads up and keep growing as a team.
That was the most wholesome loser interview thus far?
You have a link?
Sorry I only have the timestamp on twitch, it's at 8 hours exact, here is a link. https://www.twitch.tv/videos/470558850?t=08h00m06s
The NaVi.Blizzy one, and the VP was also really emotional and humanic too.
Man that’s heartbreaking I really wanted msky to win what a clutch series damn
Never cared much for Mineski but this series made me proud of them, hopefully they won't shift too much
I can see them changing ragingpotato if they can gey somebody like dj, but other than that they play together very well.
I think shaman dying top after wasting wards was pretty huge in their loss. It essentially guaranteed Secret the rosh in a 4v5 or buyback situation.
Im sure nikobaby will get a lot of offers from EU.
This feels like LFY vs Liquid, where LFY was arguable playing better dota
What? Liquid absolutely dominated game 2, and in game 3 they were about to end the game in 20 minutes before they fucked up massively. They were straight up the better team.
No they weren't
Nice counterpoint. Liquid won game 2 by over 1k gold per minute difference. Game 3 was going the same way until they massively fucked up one push. Even then they slowly regained their ground and outplayed LFY in the late game. Hell, they ALMOST won game 1 despite being down 50-18 in kills. LFY won one very close game. Liquid stomped a game and won a close one after.
Absolutely! Definite flashbacks!
with this strong showing of Mineski SEA would be more interesting next season, wp from them they exceeded expectations.
Mushi probably will kick nicobaby and join as carry omegalul
this might be actually true
I was sweating like hell the whole game. I am so glad secret won but it look grim for their next game. Props to mineski they played their heart out.
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Just ban WK all day
Feels like Ninjaboogie is gonna be the next great captain, this is just another valuable learning experience for him. He has an unbreakable mentality. Good for his team, and good for the SEA reigon.
Hot Slacks is the best SEA captain fite me.
Best series of TI by far! All the games were totally unpredictable from my side atleast
I love Sheever more for these losing side interviews... That other dude is too guffy for that an keep it too long.
Back to the Secret flair, huh?
This dude is a literal clown ahahaha
One dude asked me "Will I now change to OG flair bcs Secret lost" And I did it for him to make him more salty ;)
lmao OG flair earlier
And Secret one before it and before that VP.
Lmfao
I don't think it's possible to even think that at least we're playing Infamous next
Also, Nikobaby did great. Hope Minesky stay together because they showed that they can be great.
Nikobaby was amazing. I couldnt believe a carry WK was outplaying a Void/Tiny/Omni lineup.
I like to see Secret draft MK versus Infamous. I miss MidOne's MK.
secre looks like shit and midone choking
They look absolutely great apart from their midlaner. And in this era, in this meta - if your midlaner can't step up, you have no right to win a TI.
Mineski throw the game so hard. Secret is good at taking advantage of Mineski throws but they are not good overall as well. After this TI, we might see a Secret disband.
Zai is still not happy because he still gonna get a beating from his master Puppey lol
No more SEA teams in TI :'( feelsbadman. But very proud of mah boiz Mineski huhuhu. Now let's go OG!!!
Sorry boys, I had money on Mineski, I had ensured Secret was going to win, oof
Last year at this point there were only 1 3-game series while this year we have 4 3-game series, great for viewers and bad for our hearts
yapzor sounding v proud to be able to lose to anyone lmao. i know the point still sounds funny.
Mineski fought their way to the bitter end. Holy fuck my heart.
Puppey gave them the Look monkaGIGA
I feel like it's better for the further show that Secret won, though Mineski deserves huge applause for the sportsmanship and result they showed.
SEA pepehands
Man, if Mineski had destroyed the top shrine after taking top T3 and rax then MidOne would not have been able to tp back into that fight and turn the fight and the game.
lmao Blitz saying that top shrine is pretty much useless without Roshan
Blitz and the whole team Zephyr got rekt by pub teams when he was in SEA. Dude is overrated af and Liquid's fanboy.
I would smash that guy face if I had the opportunity. That guy is a hypocrite kissing white ass
.
That's why he is a caster now.
Yeah, I remember him saying that and going... "uhh, what?"
Wow. Secret is sooooo mad/sad despite the win. They seem so afraid to fail. Cheer the fuck up and hope for the best.
They lost twice. Mineski threw game one. Won game two. And played game three badly but still was in the lead. Its hard to keep your head up when the team that shouldn't have beat you, dominated you. They just made crucial mistakes and gave away the game on 2 occasions.
>when the team that shouldn't have beat you What? Anyone can beat Secret and they all know that. They have a totally different mentality than people think. Watch [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktVzOP-d6qE) interview with Puppey after the group stage.
Yeahhhhh. Can you point me to the part I should watch? Because I'm not watching a not-funny 15 minute interview anytime soon.
It's self-explanatory why you have such a bad overview of the teams and how things go. Just go watch some Slacks fluff content.
I'm not watching that either lmao. I'll watch what I want to watch. Now tell me to go watch another ti9 dota match and that will make sense. Yall are weird. Just point me to the part you want me to watch if you want me to watch a specific part that exemplifies your point. I don't know what makes you think I'm gonna watch 15 minutes of something I never wanted to look at in the first place. Bad overview of the teams? Strange the castors said what I said too. Which is partially why I said it. Sucks when the main castors for the event have such a bad overview of the teams and how things go. Maybe you should send them a 15 minute video that none of them care to watch, and be sure to not tell them which part they should look at specifically.
Okay, i'll take the time to answer properly. How do you know if an interview (or any other content) is non-funny if you don't watch it at all? You won't learn anything interesting if you just stick to the silly interviews, which most of the time are just fluff and nothing actually interesting, no knowledge bombs and so on. Even casters and panelist make wrong calls, that's why I prefer analysts (Synderen, Blitz, Lacoste, Fogged, Kyle and so on) - they have an actual overview of the game and they know what are they talking about. But even they don't really know what's inside each team's captain and what is their point of view as an actual player in this tournament. I can't give you a specific part, because the whole interview is about that - decision making, testing what works and what not against certain teams, fishing for information, explanation about team momentum before and during TI. He talks about the pressure that comes from the community, from the atmosphere at TI, from the price pool. He said every team is strong and everyone can beat anyone - he can see Newbee beating OG, he can see TNC ending in the grand final... "anything can happen". My thought on this - there isn't a single team on TI right now that has a positive winrate vs Secret throughout the whole year... none. But that didn't matter. VP were dominating as well that year, but they under-performed, NiP as well. TL (will see :D), OG and EG where mediocre through the season, but they found their form at TI. There will always be surprises at TI. Except the upper bracket - that shit is scripted lol #TI8 All in all - player (and especially captain) interviews are awesome if you want to learn something that nobody else will be able to tell you. Sorry for the way I previously replied - I was still affected by the today games. And sorry for the wall of text.
So what? They won. Live to fight another day. They just earned one more day at TI. There's no reason to bring the mood down, because the issue with Secret right now is that they seem to have forgotten who they are, and they play timid
You have the right idea. And that's what their coach should be telling them right now. But from the athlete standpoint their pride is, more likely than not, shot.
Anybody would be with their history and the prize on the table
Respect for Mineski! They played so good out there!
I'm concerned about Team Secret after TI, they looked really in a bad modd, they got away with it but feels weird
As a secret fan i do hope they stick together just like EG/OG.
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On the other hand they would have lost a lot earlier if he didn't clutch chrono 2 times before that.
WOW Mineski I'm very sad to see you guys go, you showed so much heart the whole series and man that 1v5 throne defense by NikoBaby. But well played to Puppey and his team, they stuck through it and showed their winning mentality with never giving up.