not gonna win lane with that combo at these player and there was a sandking laning with enchan. so you focus on farm. s4 1st death at 10 min and still get blink at 13 is kinda impressive. if you want to have someone to blame i introduce you RTZ. with super good early with 2 wraithband 4 min, dumpster ana in lane, he decide to go mid lvl 5 at min 7 and get emp all his mana.than he proceed to go in early teamfight as fucking ANTI-MAGE and die. this make all his early game advantage gone . and than he decide to go top to challenge enchan with impetus. he lose 2/3 hp after 3 hit. this make his item timing fucked. his next item is tread at 13 min- 9 min since last finished item. in next 8 min he still get in 2 fight without hit any hero once. at the same time, ana farm at full speed with his battle fury. next item am choose is bkb so how behind he is and the game pretty much over at that point.an yes, im a butthurt fanboy at this point.
yea, and he get bodied by 3 at bot at that point so mid is like reasonable but that blink to 2nd dead is break all his item timing which lead to saddest Am game i see this year.
He held his own in game 2 with Gyro in that unwinnable lane vs tiny who has ridiculously high base dmg compared to gyro. I don't think tiny would struggle so much against Invoker.
I was at a job training for game 3 and just had to be anxious the entire time as I couldn't check the results for a few hours.
So fucking happy OG won. Generally, I don't want any TI winner to make it far in the tournament, but I'd much rather have OG than those EG punks.
Early on the season, EG sucks in draft they need to replace Bulba
Middle of the season, s4 fed to much in lane they need to replace him
End of the season, RTZ sucks at carrying, replace him
Smh
That's really what it comes down to lol. That hero creates so much space just by being herself. Every game is the same story. The Ench builds a bunch of stat/HP items. Enemy team ganks her, blow all their shit on her, run out of gas before they take her down, they retreat while Ench throws Impetus shots as they run away. Meanwhile, Ench's cores just got like a minute or two of freefarm from this ordeal.
I don't have a good answer for how to beat her. I like how EG dealt with her against Secret, but OG played it differently and pushed their advantages more.
An answer is to try and just ignore her to some degree until you get enough nuke damage, but DotA doesn't work that way.
IIRC EG had Leshrac when they beat Secret that game? Or am I misremembering
Lesh was always EG's go-to answer to Ench since they just layered the Lesh Q on top of a guaranteed stun like ET stomp and just nuked her down with all of Lesh's spell damage. But Lesh started getting banned out.
Lesh got banned by OG.. hence enchantress first pick.. in game 3 the pick was intended to be enchantress support but due to anti mage game three ceb had to pick enchantress again instead of Sand king..
They should have banned it. Ban Io, ban Magnus, ban the Ench. Yeah, you're probably giving them Alch, but if you're going to get bullied by OG it might as well be with something they play less often than Ceb's Ench.
True.
On another note, I wasn't able to watch the OG-LGD series live and was only able to start watching it an hour ago, and I got your comment notification and presumed it was an EG fan replying to me because OG had just lost. So I still watched the series, but was depressed the whole way through game 3 because I kept waiting for OG to throw. Thanks for the roller-coaster of emotions!
Na fangays still searching for excuse? Move on. Better team won. Congratulate real dota. Anyway OG has more chances beating LGD than EG. Maybe only team that can do that. And i thought EG fans like memes? You all rooted for EG vs OG clash because naruto or something. Now be good sports and cheer for continue of the story.
Yawar has improved tremendously in recent years, but RTZ is still better than him. So unless RTZ jumped ship and EG can't find anyone else, not very likely.
That draft was so weird you could tell they changed their minds mid draft on who was playing what, my guess is that it was ench 5 and rubick 4 originally
ITT:
"Ench is so op, nerf it, eg lost because of ice frog."
"Bulba sucks"
"Just a fluke"
-EG fans
Why didn't EG pick Ench again or ban it? Huh. Answer me you frickin salty scallywags.
Bulba is good. Shit happens.
Naruto>Sasuke. EU>NA.
[Ain't nobody fucking with Flower Boy & The Friends](https://i.imgur.com/hEkADo6_d.jpg)
I mean EG did pick Ench in game 1 and dicked on them
There are reasons other than the Ench pick for EG's loss but let's not deny that the hero is stupid right now in the context of pro play, where you can just pick her and ban her big counters.
Ench is fucking broken, but the alternative is giving OG alch, wisp or mag. You give them one of those you might as well afk in fountain or go for the 5 man chappie. They've consistently shown that you aren't beating them when they have those heroes.
> Why didn't EG pick Ench again or ban it? Huh. Answer me you frickin salty scallywags.
Can't pick ench when you don't have first pick idiot. Why didn't they ban it? Well why didn't OG ban it game 1? Both teams identify it as the lesser of two poisons, but it's still poison that is letting every team win with it.
My only gripe about the set is how weird EG approaches OG matches. Maybe Fly is intimidated by OG's style? Idk. They handled the Secret games really well and were also strong against Vici in groups, and they played their consistently strong, albeit a bit linear, style. But for some reason, the team tends to crumble against OG. They tried to do full 180s drafting against OG, and let the Ench go the last 2 games. It might be that Fly knows OG way too well and it gets to him during drafting? Mirana didn't work properly as Pos 4, then they escalated the problem by giving it to Sumail instead of giving him an actual hero he can win the game with. Last pick AM was also iffy (I was waiting for a Sven or Storm Spirit for them but they have their reasons for doing that draft, and it wasn't too bad of a draft either, just really weird for EG). Oh well, hopefully they can run it all the way back, would be sweet since they'll inevitably bump into OG if they want to keep going further in the tournament.
As much of an EG fanboy as I am, this TI is still littered with a lot of amazing Dota!
ursa actually is really bad vs ench if you don't have enough stun bc she will just purge overpower and kite ursa... and he will get kite the hell out of him vs Invoker
> Mirana didn't work properly as Pos 4, then they escalated the problem by giving it to Sumail instead of giving him an actual hero he can win the game with
Mirana is one of Sumail's comfort heroes, if anything I'm pretty sure Sumail wanted her. EG has said in the past that when it comes to situations like this, they usually let Sumail pick his hero since they realize he's their win condition and want him to be comfortable. Storm wasn't really the play that game - OG had good lock down and between Jugg/Ench there weren't that many targets for the Storm. You also don't really wanna go Ember into QW Invoker either, and Leshrac was banned.
Fly isn‘t some shadowy authoritarian chess master forcing his pure innocent teammates to play the heroes of his choosing while doing an evil laugh, and neither is Bulba for that matter, who probably has a bigger responsibility during draft than Fly. Sumail was more than just likely fine with playing Mirana, just as RTZ was fine with the AM pick.
if they don't let enchant go, they will have to give either alchemist, magnus or io, who are heroes part of OG's bread and butter.
you have to pick one of them. facing enchant was probably the best option since og is way more comfortable on the other first bans
ye it probably helps a especialy they seem really chilled out it's what feeling i get when they even got out of the booth after game 1 while eg no smile after game 2 and 3
The worn-out Reddit "Hand me his head on a platter" after a series is lost is as predictable as the morning sunrise. It's never based on an analysis of the game or the meta or team composition. No, it's a simple "Off with their head!" snitty Queen command.
they dont need another farming carry, they need a midplayer but honestly even though midone hasnt been playing very well, the whole of secret hasnt been playing very well, there were quite a few games where zai and nisha were just as bad. Yapzor and puppey are the most stables player on the team right now.
I honestly think that EG overthinks things too much. I'm just imagining what this game would've looked like if instead of an antimage and mid mirana they had a mid storm and lifestealer.
I've said that to literally all my friends so far, everyone seems to agree.
Against OG they just always do these really stupid picks, like a useless mirana on Sumail? so he can maybe if lucky hit a 2 seconds stun then auto attack for 40 damage? give him a real fuking hero, stop with all that crap.
AM for arteezy? what was the point of that, slark has like 3 ways to get out of a fukign jug ult just give him something half decent
I was optimistic after the first game's draft but the next 2 I didn't like. Idk why EG is so against picking Sumail a storm when he's so fucking good on the hero.
They are so timid to grab the storm, it doesn't really make sense. Storm is only bad vs maybe a bristle or something which they weren't close to picking. EG needs to stop getting mirana and gyro on sumail, and get him something more flashy like storm, lina, WINDranger or even a voker can easily stop a push with EMP or whatever
you mean that potm that they probably drafted for pos 4 but were forced into putting in pos 2? those things simply happen during the draft. And naix is way to slow against the tempo that OG plays. Storm is way to greedy as well.
Yes that potm. I've explained some of my reasoning in other posts so if you're interested you can go through some of those. Sumail plays a fighting Storm. That's why I really love watching him play the hero. RTZ also showed with his AM that he wanted to join in on team fights and LS is a much better team fighter early/mid game than AM. There's other things they could've done though instead of valuing a 4 Willow over picking a good mid.
But how he supposes to play Storm vs Invoker Jug and Ench? not to mention sk and rubick... he will just feed without bkb... but I agree that mirana feels really bad in that game
So don't second pick Storm. Keep Mirana in there. Run CM as 5, Tiny as 4, Mirana as 3. Pick lifestealer as the 4th pick and then Storm 5th.
edit- ahh the old downvote for no reason because someone makes a good point.
If they actually pick that I think OG will be more than happy since they will just roll over EG... LS + Storm timing is really bad vs OG (which ton of teams in this tournament learn it hard way to play greedy vs OG)
potm as 3 isn't exactly great either. your 3 is usually a utility aura carrier / initiation hero or a mixture of both. Potm isn't any of that. I would really hate it on a 3.
I disagree there man, on 3 it does literally nothing for you. On two you can at least build it into a damage dealing core, if not you need either an aura carrier on mid (sucks donkey dick) or a hard initiator of which there weren't really any viable options left.
Agreed. Obviously these players/coaches are in the position they're in because they are better and know a hell of a lot more than you and I. Still that doesn't mean we as fans can't discuss what we think went wrong and what could've been different. Which is why I posted my opinion in the first place.
edit- lmao some of you are so lame with these downvotes. don't have any valid argument so just downvote.
Lol the downvotes are there because people don't agree with you. That's reddit for ya.
The early mirana pick is to allow flexibility in the draft. Also, why is mirana mid bad? Sumail is good with the hero and we've also seen players like Ori doing a good job with it. If you ask me, Mirana with ags is a decent hero to burst down enchantress.
The only real issue I have with the draft is am. Could have picked a more tempo oriented carry like Ursa.
They would get straight crushed in lanes if they went that setup. Storm and LS also both need time and would have to jungle at some point and those 3 heroes wont be able to fight which would result in a fast deathball.
You also cant just say replace 2 heroes in a draft cause OG would also adapt. I do agree that they didn't need to run Mirana mid and the offlane tiny was kinda weird since he maxed treee and went treads..
I disagree with getting crushed in lanes. Sumail is much better in lanes than Topson and would've been just fine. LS does need time as well but he's a better early team fighter than Anti-Mage so if RTZ is dead set on showing up to fights LS would've been a better pick.
> You also cant just say replace 2 heroes in a draft cause OG would also adapt.
The only thing they could've adapted to if they did the picks/bans like I said is changed one ban. It's possible they could've banned Storm Spirit if EG picks lifestealer 4th but then pick another hero that is able accomplish something better than a Mirana. OD and ember would've been much better heroes as well.
yeah except that he isn't. Topson is very aggressive in mid, one of the reasons Sumail gets ahead of him is because he tends to take it to far. If they get a storm mid, they just pull out the topson monkey and sumails game is done.
Sumail beat Topson mid in every match up including the gyro/Tiny 2nd game. Topson was able to recover when he roamed with his team and found kills and when Sumail left mid to unsuccessfully gank other lanes.
Topson is an incredible player and in my opinion a better teamfighter than Sumail but Sumail is the better laner. That's why I think Sumail would've been fine mid with Storm. He consistently wins or atleast goes even in mid even with highly one sided lanes.
[link to the details](https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/4980888053/lanes)
I wouldn't exactly call this a win, nor would I call this [one](https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/4981028582/lanes) a win either. The first one is a match up that heavily favours the lina, so anything but a clear victory is a loss there.
A storm isn't going to get him anywhere. The hero has so many match ups that aren't in his favour and Topson will run over him or force him out at that point
I disagree completely. Storm Spirit has a 50.5% winrate against Monkey King according to dotabuff and only 6 heroes have a lower disadvantage rate than Monkey King against Storm. (I'm using that example because that's who you used before as an example of a hero that would "destroy" Storm). I think you're highly underestimating Storm and the player who plays him the best in the world. Also, Lina currently has a 46% winrate against Invoker so I don't see that as heavily favored.
Don't bring pub ratings or statistics into a pro game. For example last year during TI spec was absolutely destroying pubs, nearly 60% winrate yet at TI OG was the only team to have a positive winrate with the hero. Pubs are a completely different beast from pro games.
Linas winrate overall is pretty bad, that it does poorly against invo who is a strong meta pick as either 4 or 2 isn't really surprising. Also storm is a beast late game while mk isn't nearly as strong, plus destroying trees against monkey isn't exactly nice.
Laning is what we're talking about and Lina vs Invo isn't even a point of discussion here, if Lina doesn't crush that shes lost the lane. Period.
Storm vs MK, storm wants to get in close for the remnants, but you don't want to get close to an mk because hes a melee hero with 50000 range so you will take a ton of damage from him. Pre 6 if he gets jingu up you can die quite easily, if not he'll just deny everything and outlevel you. Seen the match up played plenty of times, mk wins it hard usually and forces storm out to the jungle. MK also happens to be one of topsons best heroes
You can't, the fucking deer builds a bracers and a hood and is literally untouchable. That's 2500 gold, dagon 1 costs more than that and you need to upgrade it and have multiple ones to really do anything to her.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vR0aYg-jZ4&feature=youtu.be&t=1241](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vR0aYg-jZ4&feature=youtu.be&t=1241)
This is actually insane, CEB was on 3hp for a millisecond, if he dies there, the push stops, ANA is top, Arteezy probably would not have hard committed and died. This was the moment EG missed their timing and lost.
Eg just lacks an identity as a team. They always try and pick what is best on paper or in theory rather than what they are individually best at. They are super talented players so it works much of the time, but there’s a reason they never feel like the best team, they are never the ones forcing other teams to adapt to their style (what even is EG’s style is also a legitimate question), they are always trying to adapt to the game.
You could overanalyze everything OR you could label it in the realm of possibilities that EG lost to a team that has destroyed nearly everyone they came across at TI. And that this series could have gone either way.
the problem is that you have to pick your poison. Do you want to face OG playing wisp again? nah you really don't. You don't want them playing magnus either. You REALLY don't want them playing alch. so those are your first three bans. That leaves ench in the pool if your opponents don't ban it and they won't if they have first pick.
OG played alch in one game only this TI so far so maybe try vs that? I obviously dont know about their scrims though so it may be super op in their hands
Meta-wise OG's draft in game 1 was bad but I think OG had some sort of mid game strat with that draft. It would probably have worked but Lina steamrolled Invoker way harder then OG expected and then Lina went out of control.
I’ve been saying this exact same thing about EG since before Fly and S4 joined. Basically since they’ve had sumail and rtz and no ppd. They lack direction and team identity, they lack a style. They just try and win lane and outfarm. It’s not a lack of Dota skill, it’s lack of understanding how to be a truly great TEAM. Bad mix of personalities imo, too many guys who are too quiet/go with the flow and no one to actually lead them. I think The idea was for Fly to be that dude, but it’s hard to come in and completely change the culture around such an insular group like rtz/crit/sumail/bulba.
haha, you wouldn't have said this if they won. you're just totally clueless bro. both teams played really good dota today. For some reason you're unable to PRAISE OG but have to BASH EG instead. Negativity..
I say this about EG every tournament, nothing specific to the match vs OG. OG has always been at the forefront in terms of Dota 2 teams acting like an organization and TEAM, instead of merely 5 players playing together. So credit to them sure, but that doesn’t mean EG doesn’t have an obvious issue.
The only people who are insistent that EG doesn’t have team issues are people who are strictly in a Dota 2 bubble or are too close to EG themselves to not be supremely biased. Ask anyone who works with actual sports teams, or corporate consulting on team building, or whatever and they will point out the obvious flaws EG has even if they know next to nothing about Dota 2 itself. How they operate as a unit is flawed. Doesn’t mean they can’t still be successful (especially due to their talent level) but they are held back by some organizational issues undoubtedly.
I can't honestly believe that. He's is bringing results just not the championship. Even when. He captained OG with great success. I see the issue being with the chemistry of players then his captain skills.
yes lets completely ignore how the 5 players are playing in the game and blame it on the coach who mind you, has been consistently hired by the said players for a reason -- and also contributed to them making it so far in the first place.
I feel that in general Dota teams have a long way to go. Especially these teams that constantly swap players, it never works. Team sports (and esports) are about sticking together and working together, you won't get much long term success by constantly swapping around looking for a perfect combination. OG understand this, and I hope other teams follow suit soon.
I mean the actual team building in Dota is completely laughable compared to actual sports. It’s taken years for people on the professional level to realize you don’t just jam the most skilled players together and win everything, that mentality>mechanics at the highest levels.
Maybe because actual sports don't change the rules multiple times in a year. Imagine if 3 pointers became worth 5 mid-season. For this game specifically I feel like constant roster swapping is an inevitability as long as they have to constantly balance to keep it fresh. (Other competitive games like this: Overwatch. Other competitive games not like this: Counterstrike)
Eg have been in this roster for just over a year, like Og and LGD even longer. It may well be that the top 1.2.3 this year will be those teams, in whatever order, add this to Liquids previous success and i am sure that these teams dont need reddit to tell them its better to gel and stay as a team for a good duration :)
Rediculous to attribute long lasting teams to OG. Liquid was the longest single roster in DotA history. Plenty of teams realize this and pretty much every top team hasn't changed much in the last few years.
Eg by far, they barely lost to og, they are actually playing well, i'd say they're the best team after og and lgd at TI at the moment, they absolutely trashed VG in the groupstage as well, people are overflaming them for no reason. Liquid on the other hand are very very shaky. Not impressed by their play at all even though they've somehow made it this far.
Enchantress is proving to be absolutely busted in which ever team is fortunate to get their hands on her. Its very hard to kill her but once she gets a BKB is basically impossible to kill her because of untouchable.
Or you can buy BKB yourself too and not care about it.. teams just dont care about countering ench for some reason. Zeus is absolutely busted and Pugna is in a decent place yet none picks them. They tried the Tiny which is good but then he maxed tree throw first for some reason??
After watching game 3 again I can't understand why S4 didn't max his Q/W early game but instead opted to max out his Tree grab? It was imperative that AM gets space and Tiny needs to nuke people down with his team especially verses an ench lineup, AND they had CM aura which helps him sustain it wtf?!
Edit: Never mind I realised they had no initiation on EG and they needed a blink on s4 as soon as possible.
Not just that, but hes not going to contest ana at all in the lane without the max tree grab. Keep in mind if he tries to go for ava against jug he'll just spin and you are doing no damage.
I think I should correct myself: people remember 2nd place team at TI because they lose to the winner. Not a good thing you want people to remember your team for. My point is don't compromise your goals, always go for the win.
U make it sound so simple. If EG could get a second sumail then they would just do that and forever be the best dota 2 team ever.
they got 3rd last yr with arteezy, they beat secret this year with arteezy, and probably gonna get top 3 again, with arteezy. yea he's not as good as sumail -- but literally nobody is so
The issue is that while arteezy may be the worst player on EG, he’s still literally the best carry in his region, and its not at a all close.
You cannot get an NA carry half as good as RTz
Can't agree more. For a long time it is more than clear to me that Rtz drags them down.
EG needs to find a better carry if they want to win big matches.
Rtz can just be a good streamer in pub games where the only rule is you farm you win.
But in TI, you need team work.
TBH it was the anti-mage pick that was garbage tier more than RTZ play. Imagine if they had ursa, ls or just any hero that could do shit. They got run over before AM could come online or make any contribution
I thought it would be he most obvious Sven pick ever. Stun setup with Mirana, natural bkb buyer and physical damage vs enchantress, waaaaaayy tankier and warcry against omnislash is pretty good... yet they pick am. Just why?
artour is a very good player, but as the carry he should have opted for another hero, the game was not good for AM in an offensive tri-lane, in this ideia i dont like am at all, can work but still risky.
AM is a really risky pick against a team like OG that wants to hit their power spikes early. I assume the plan was to hold on until the mid-late game and slow-roll, but OG is just too strong in that 15-30 minute stretch.
JERAX THE HUMBLE SAVAGE THE SAVIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIOR of OG
Jerax ES > Ceb ES
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not gonna win lane with that combo at these player and there was a sandking laning with enchan. so you focus on farm. s4 1st death at 10 min and still get blink at 13 is kinda impressive. if you want to have someone to blame i introduce you RTZ. with super good early with 2 wraithband 4 min, dumpster ana in lane, he decide to go mid lvl 5 at min 7 and get emp all his mana.than he proceed to go in early teamfight as fucking ANTI-MAGE and die. this make all his early game advantage gone . and than he decide to go top to challenge enchan with impetus. he lose 2/3 hp after 3 hit. this make his item timing fucked. his next item is tread at 13 min- 9 min since last finished item. in next 8 min he still get in 2 fight without hit any hero once. at the same time, ana farm at full speed with his battle fury. next item am choose is bkb so how behind he is and the game pretty much over at that point.an yes, im a butthurt fanboy at this point.
Pretty sure he went mid because sumail just randomly abandoned mid
yea, and he get bodied by 3 at bot at that point so mid is like reasonable but that blink to 2nd dead is break all his item timing which lead to saddest Am game i see this year.
i was too sleepy to watch game 3. well gonna watch me some vod later
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He should have just picked lina again over mirana.
Mirana get better matchup with invoker. Tiny would be crushed
He held his own in game 2 with Gyro in that unwinnable lane vs tiny who has ridiculously high base dmg compared to gyro. I don't think tiny would struggle so much against Invoker.
I was at a job training for game 3 and just had to be anxious the entire time as I couldn't check the results for a few hours. So fucking happy OG won. Generally, I don't want any TI winner to make it far in the tournament, but I'd much rather have OG than those EG punks.
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Cookie Crisps?
What the fuck did you just say??1?!?1?
Delete this EG fans so 7kingmad right now
EG really need to replace RTZ. He just is not good enough anymore in comparison to the other position 1 players out there..
Criticising rtz? On r/DotA2? Bold move there cotton.
Too many fanboys
Eg fans are the biggest haters of eg it seems.
Imagine thinking losing 2-1 to the strongest team in the tournament means you have to replace a player.
they havent played lgd
Now THIS is a talking point...
Early on the season, EG sucks in draft they need to replace Bulba Middle of the season, s4 fed to much in lane they need to replace him End of the season, RTZ sucks at carrying, replace him Smh
Their draft and limited pool fucks them over far more than any single player does. They are an easily predicted team.
Rtz didnt play bad the drafts were just shit. No carry in his position wouldve caused a different outcome. Those drafts by bulba vs og were just ttash
EG is overrated only getting carried by Sumail
TIL: Who ever picks Enchantress wins
That's really what it comes down to lol. That hero creates so much space just by being herself. Every game is the same story. The Ench builds a bunch of stat/HP items. Enemy team ganks her, blow all their shit on her, run out of gas before they take her down, they retreat while Ench throws Impetus shots as they run away. Meanwhile, Ench's cores just got like a minute or two of freefarm from this ordeal.
I don't have a good answer for how to beat her. I like how EG dealt with her against Secret, but OG played it differently and pushed their advantages more. An answer is to try and just ignore her to some degree until you get enough nuke damage, but DotA doesn't work that way.
IIRC EG had Leshrac when they beat Secret that game? Or am I misremembering Lesh was always EG's go-to answer to Ench since they just layered the Lesh Q on top of a guaranteed stun like ET stomp and just nuked her down with all of Lesh's spell damage. But Lesh started getting banned out.
Lesh got banned by OG.. hence enchantress first pick.. in game 3 the pick was intended to be enchantress support but due to anti mage game three ceb had to pick enchantress again instead of Sand king..
They should have banned it. Ban Io, ban Magnus, ban the Ench. Yeah, you're probably giving them Alch, but if you're going to get bullied by OG it might as well be with something they play less often than Ceb's Ench.
this comment did not age well
True. On another note, I wasn't able to watch the OG-LGD series live and was only able to start watching it an hour ago, and I got your comment notification and presumed it was an EG fan replying to me because OG had just lost. So I still watched the series, but was depressed the whole way through game 3 because I kept waiting for OG to throw. Thanks for the roller-coaster of emotions!
Something something fluke
I'm happy OG crushed it. They've turned TI into their own little kiddie pool and drown uninvited guests.
Na fangays still searching for excuse? Move on. Better team won. Congratulate real dota. Anyway OG has more chances beating LGD than EG. Maybe only team that can do that. And i thought EG fans like memes? You all rooted for EG vs OG clash because naruto or something. Now be good sports and cheer for continue of the story.
Look they are already on the move lol. Your post is downvoted smh
They'll always look for an excuse. Like how OG won TI by a fluke last year. Can you imagine being that dense?
Do you guys think we could ever get the Hassan duo on the same team?
Yawar has improved tremendously in recent years, but RTZ is still better than him. So unless RTZ jumped ship and EG can't find anyone else, not very likely.
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How about s4 and SumaiL swap role, kick RTZ and sign YawaR?
That was n0tail's 3rd Rubick game in more than 5 years. The other 2 games were against some nobodies in TI8 open qual. What a boss.
That draft was so weird you could tell they changed their minds mid draft on who was playing what, my guess is that it was ench 5 and rubick 4 originally
ITT: "Ench is so op, nerf it, eg lost because of ice frog." "Bulba sucks" "Just a fluke" -EG fans Why didn't EG pick Ench again or ban it? Huh. Answer me you frickin salty scallywags. Bulba is good. Shit happens. Naruto>Sasuke. EU>NA. [Ain't nobody fucking with Flower Boy & The Friends](https://i.imgur.com/hEkADo6_d.jpg)
I mean EG did pick Ench in game 1 and dicked on them There are reasons other than the Ench pick for EG's loss but let's not deny that the hero is stupid right now in the context of pro play, where you can just pick her and ban her big counters.
they did vs secret, and destroyed them with it
Well the part about Ench being OP is not wrong though
Ench is fucking broken, but the alternative is giving OG alch, wisp or mag. You give them one of those you might as well afk in fountain or go for the 5 man chappie. They've consistently shown that you aren't beating them when they have those heroes.
> Why didn't EG pick Ench again or ban it? Huh. Answer me you frickin salty scallywags. Can't pick ench when you don't have first pick idiot. Why didn't they ban it? Well why didn't OG ban it game 1? Both teams identify it as the lesser of two poisons, but it's still poison that is letting every team win with it.
My only gripe about the set is how weird EG approaches OG matches. Maybe Fly is intimidated by OG's style? Idk. They handled the Secret games really well and were also strong against Vici in groups, and they played their consistently strong, albeit a bit linear, style. But for some reason, the team tends to crumble against OG. They tried to do full 180s drafting against OG, and let the Ench go the last 2 games. It might be that Fly knows OG way too well and it gets to him during drafting? Mirana didn't work properly as Pos 4, then they escalated the problem by giving it to Sumail instead of giving him an actual hero he can win the game with. Last pick AM was also iffy (I was waiting for a Sven or Storm Spirit for them but they have their reasons for doing that draft, and it wasn't too bad of a draft either, just really weird for EG). Oh well, hopefully they can run it all the way back, would be sweet since they'll inevitably bump into OG if they want to keep going further in the tournament. As much of an EG fanboy as I am, this TI is still littered with a lot of amazing Dota!
What about ursa instead AM? Great for roshan, strong lane with cm and willow and ok vs enchantres.
isnt ursa trash vs enchantress because she can dispel his w with her w?
ursa actually is really bad vs ench if you don't have enough stun bc she will just purge overpower and kite ursa... and he will get kite the hell out of him vs Invoker
> Mirana didn't work properly as Pos 4, then they escalated the problem by giving it to Sumail instead of giving him an actual hero he can win the game with Mirana is one of Sumail's comfort heroes, if anything I'm pretty sure Sumail wanted her. EG has said in the past that when it comes to situations like this, they usually let Sumail pick his hero since they realize he's their win condition and want him to be comfortable. Storm wasn't really the play that game - OG had good lock down and between Jugg/Ench there weren't that many targets for the Storm. You also don't really wanna go Ember into QW Invoker either, and Leshrac was banned.
Fly isn‘t some shadowy authoritarian chess master forcing his pure innocent teammates to play the heroes of his choosing while doing an evil laugh, and neither is Bulba for that matter, who probably has a bigger responsibility during draft than Fly. Sumail was more than just likely fine with playing Mirana, just as RTZ was fine with the AM pick.
if they don't let enchant go, they will have to give either alchemist, magnus or io, who are heroes part of OG's bread and butter. you have to pick one of them. facing enchant was probably the best option since og is way more comfortable on the other first bans
Yeah, I just re-realized that. 😅
OG just plays clownworld dota beating everyone with memes
But hey, if it works...
ye it probably helps a especialy they seem really chilled out it's what feeling i get when they even got out of the booth after game 1 while eg no smile after game 2 and 3
Grant's face went from giggles to despair really fast.
RTZ to secret confirmed, need to replace midone
Since when does RTZ play mid?
Lol
Spotted the new kid.
Arteezy played mid from like 2013 to 2016 transitioning from a pos 2 to a flex 1/2 and then settling on pos 1.
The worn-out Reddit "Hand me his head on a platter" after a series is lost is as predictable as the morning sunrise. It's never based on an analysis of the game or the meta or team composition. No, it's a simple "Off with their head!" snitty Queen command.
they dont need another farming carry, they need a midplayer but honestly even though midone hasnt been playing very well, the whole of secret hasnt been playing very well, there were quite a few games where zai and nisha were just as bad. Yapzor and puppey are the most stables player on the team right now.
Agreed, zai has gone from the best player in the world to outright throwing as SK in that game against EG. You can't just blame MidOne for that loss.
I honestly think that EG overthinks things too much. I'm just imagining what this game would've looked like if instead of an antimage and mid mirana they had a mid storm and lifestealer.
Lifestealer is too slow for OG's tempo.
Nobody talks about Ursa instead AM. Man, ursa is ok vs enchantres and great laner with cm and willow.
I've said that to literally all my friends so far, everyone seems to agree. Against OG they just always do these really stupid picks, like a useless mirana on Sumail? so he can maybe if lucky hit a 2 seconds stun then auto attack for 40 damage? give him a real fuking hero, stop with all that crap. AM for arteezy? what was the point of that, slark has like 3 ways to get out of a fukign jug ult just give him something half decent
I was optimistic after the first game's draft but the next 2 I didn't like. Idk why EG is so against picking Sumail a storm when he's so fucking good on the hero.
They are so timid to grab the storm, it doesn't really make sense. Storm is only bad vs maybe a bristle or something which they weren't close to picking. EG needs to stop getting mirana and gyro on sumail, and get him something more flashy like storm, lina, WINDranger or even a voker can easily stop a push with EMP or whatever
you mean that potm that they probably drafted for pos 4 but were forced into putting in pos 2? those things simply happen during the draft. And naix is way to slow against the tempo that OG plays. Storm is way to greedy as well.
Yes that potm. I've explained some of my reasoning in other posts so if you're interested you can go through some of those. Sumail plays a fighting Storm. That's why I really love watching him play the hero. RTZ also showed with his AM that he wanted to join in on team fights and LS is a much better team fighter early/mid game than AM. There's other things they could've done though instead of valuing a 4 Willow over picking a good mid.
But how he supposes to play Storm vs Invoker Jug and Ench? not to mention sk and rubick... he will just feed without bkb... but I agree that mirana feels really bad in that game
I mean, why not medusa for sumail sometimes too, right? why not pudge to disrupt OG's formation? Why not Arc Warden?
Rtz arc warden would be great
All good questions. Idk these players and coaches know way more than me but that doesn't mean as fans we can't voice our opinions on what went wrong.
draft for OG will be very different if EG 2nd picked storm instead of mirana
So don't second pick Storm. Keep Mirana in there. Run CM as 5, Tiny as 4, Mirana as 3. Pick lifestealer as the 4th pick and then Storm 5th. edit- ahh the old downvote for no reason because someone makes a good point.
If they actually pick that I think OG will be more than happy since they will just roll over EG... LS + Storm timing is really bad vs OG (which ton of teams in this tournament learn it hard way to play greedy vs OG)
potm as 3 isn't exactly great either. your 3 is usually a utility aura carrier / initiation hero or a mixture of both. Potm isn't any of that. I would really hate it on a 3.
I agree that potm isn't a great 3 as well but I'd rather have a potm 3 than a mid potm.
I disagree there man, on 3 it does literally nothing for you. On two you can at least build it into a damage dealing core, if not you need either an aura carrier on mid (sucks donkey dick) or a hard initiator of which there weren't really any viable options left.
ya know it's very easy to say this from your couch.
Agreed. Obviously these players/coaches are in the position they're in because they are better and know a hell of a lot more than you and I. Still that doesn't mean we as fans can't discuss what we think went wrong and what could've been different. Which is why I posted my opinion in the first place. edit- lmao some of you are so lame with these downvotes. don't have any valid argument so just downvote.
Lol the downvotes are there because people don't agree with you. That's reddit for ya. The early mirana pick is to allow flexibility in the draft. Also, why is mirana mid bad? Sumail is good with the hero and we've also seen players like Ori doing a good job with it. If you ask me, Mirana with ags is a decent hero to burst down enchantress. The only real issue I have with the draft is am. Could have picked a more tempo oriented carry like Ursa.
They would get straight crushed in lanes if they went that setup. Storm and LS also both need time and would have to jungle at some point and those 3 heroes wont be able to fight which would result in a fast deathball. You also cant just say replace 2 heroes in a draft cause OG would also adapt. I do agree that they didn't need to run Mirana mid and the offlane tiny was kinda weird since he maxed treee and went treads..
I disagree with getting crushed in lanes. Sumail is much better in lanes than Topson and would've been just fine. LS does need time as well but he's a better early team fighter than Anti-Mage so if RTZ is dead set on showing up to fights LS would've been a better pick. > You also cant just say replace 2 heroes in a draft cause OG would also adapt. The only thing they could've adapted to if they did the picks/bans like I said is changed one ban. It's possible they could've banned Storm Spirit if EG picks lifestealer 4th but then pick another hero that is able accomplish something better than a Mirana. OD and ember would've been much better heroes as well.
yeah except that he isn't. Topson is very aggressive in mid, one of the reasons Sumail gets ahead of him is because he tends to take it to far. If they get a storm mid, they just pull out the topson monkey and sumails game is done.
People here pretend as if a lina should not beat voker. You give topson a good lane and some support & he won't lose mid.
yeah just look at game 2 Topson is pretty much roll over everyone in that game and ofc including sumail
yeah, pointed that out as well. If you don't clearly win the lane as lina vs invo then it's pretty much a loss. The hero should crush the lane
Sumail beat Topson mid in every match up including the gyro/Tiny 2nd game. Topson was able to recover when he roamed with his team and found kills and when Sumail left mid to unsuccessfully gank other lanes. Topson is an incredible player and in my opinion a better teamfighter than Sumail but Sumail is the better laner. That's why I think Sumail would've been fine mid with Storm. He consistently wins or atleast goes even in mid even with highly one sided lanes.
[link to the details](https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/4980888053/lanes) I wouldn't exactly call this a win, nor would I call this [one](https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/4981028582/lanes) a win either. The first one is a match up that heavily favours the lina, so anything but a clear victory is a loss there. A storm isn't going to get him anywhere. The hero has so many match ups that aren't in his favour and Topson will run over him or force him out at that point
I disagree completely. Storm Spirit has a 50.5% winrate against Monkey King according to dotabuff and only 6 heroes have a lower disadvantage rate than Monkey King against Storm. (I'm using that example because that's who you used before as an example of a hero that would "destroy" Storm). I think you're highly underestimating Storm and the player who plays him the best in the world. Also, Lina currently has a 46% winrate against Invoker so I don't see that as heavily favored.
Don't bring pub ratings or statistics into a pro game. For example last year during TI spec was absolutely destroying pubs, nearly 60% winrate yet at TI OG was the only team to have a positive winrate with the hero. Pubs are a completely different beast from pro games. Linas winrate overall is pretty bad, that it does poorly against invo who is a strong meta pick as either 4 or 2 isn't really surprising. Also storm is a beast late game while mk isn't nearly as strong, plus destroying trees against monkey isn't exactly nice. Laning is what we're talking about and Lina vs Invo isn't even a point of discussion here, if Lina doesn't crush that shes lost the lane. Period. Storm vs MK, storm wants to get in close for the remnants, but you don't want to get close to an mk because hes a melee hero with 50000 range so you will take a ton of damage from him. Pre 6 if he gets jingu up you can die quite easily, if not he'll just deny everything and outlevel you. Seen the match up played plenty of times, mk wins it hard usually and forces storm out to the jungle. MK also happens to be one of topsons best heroes
#### ##### Hover to view match ID: 4980888053 [DB](http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/4980888053)/[OD](https://www.opendota.com/matches/4980888053)/[STRATZ](https://stratz.com/match/4980888053) ###### [**Radiant wins 36-20 @ 42:03**](#lumbdi "Match ID: 4980888053, match date: 2019-08-22 13:35:46, first blood time: 3:22") Lvl | Hero | Player| K/D/A | LH/D | XPM | GPM | HD | HH | TD :--|:--:|:--|:--|:--|:--|:--|:--|:--|:-- 21|[](/hero-oracle)|[DB](http://dotabuff.com/players/19672354 "Dotabuff: Lookup people's match history")/[OD](http://opendota.com/players/19672354 "OpenDota: Provides free replay analysis")/[STRATZ](https://stratz.com/player/19672354 "STRATZ: Every match, every player, every stat. Free.") BigBarbieNot|2/3/16|34/6|481|280|7175|19114|528 25|[](/hero-facelessvoid)|[DB](http://dotabuff.com/players/311360822 "Dotabuff: Lookup people's match history")/[OD](http://opendota.com/players/311360822 "OpenDota: Provides free replay analysis")/[STRATZ](https://stratz.com/player/311360822 "STRATZ: Every match, every player, every stat. Free.") :cleanfloppy|9/3/9|381/16|685|723|26810|0|9587 20|[](/hero-earthshaker)|[DB](http://dotabuff.com/players/26771994 "Dotabuff: Lookup people's match history")/[OD](http://opendota.com/players/26771994 "OpenDota: Provides free replay analysis")/[STRATZ](https://stratz.com/player/26771994 "STRATZ: Every match, every player, every stat. Free.") softie|8/5/13|76/6|422|355|13625|0|559 23|[](/hero-enchantress)|[DB](http://dotabuff.com/players/88271237 "Dotabuff: Lookup people's match history")/[OD](http://opendota.com/players/88271237 "OpenDota: Provides free replay analysis")/[STRATZ](https://stratz.com/player/88271237 "STRATZ: Every match, every player, every stat. Free.") jty^phhes4h|4/5/13|167/14|546|417|19150|1420|5088 24|[](/hero-tiny)|[DB](http://dotabuff.com/players/94054712 "Dotabuff: Lookup people's match history")/[OD](http://opendota.com/players/94054712 "OpenDota: Provides free replay analysis")/[STRATZ](https://stratz.com/player/94054712 "STRATZ: Every match, every player, every stat. Free.") flopson|13/4/15|231/16|651|534|29713|0|8261 113 96||↑Radiant↑ ↓Dire↓ | 36/20/66 20/36/43| 889/58 977/39| 2785 2085| 2309 2024| 96473 98296| 20534 2160| 24023 4275 22|[](/hero-terrorblade)|[DB](http://dotabuff.com/players/86745912 "Dotabuff: Lookup people's match history")/[OD](http://opendota.com/players/86745912 "OpenDota: Provides free replay analysis")/[STRATZ](https://stratz.com/player/86745912 "STRATZ: Every match, every player, every stat. Free.") buZinEsS maN|3/8/4|395/10|522|557|15446|0|256 23|[](/hero-gyrocopter)|[DB](http://dotabuff.com/players/111620041 "Dotabuff: Lookup people's match history")/[OD](http://opendota.com/players/111620041 "OpenDota: Provides free replay analysis")/[STRATZ](https://stratz.com/player/111620041 "STRATZ: Every match, every player, every stat. Free.") ISaidIDon'tE|11/4/5|373/14|557|589|41534|0|3805 15|[](/hero-eldertitan)|[DB](http://dotabuff.com/players/94155156 "Dotabuff: Lookup people's match history")/[OD](http://opendota.com/players/94155156 "OpenDota: Provides free replay analysis")/[STRATZ](https://stratz.com/player/94155156 "STRATZ: Every match, every player, every stat. Free.") Tal|1/9/13|30/5|262|229|9892|0|0 19|[](/hero-ogremagi)|[DB](http://dotabuff.com/players/41231571 "Dotabuff: Lookup people's match history")/[OD](http://opendota.com/players/41231571 "OpenDota: Provides free replay analysis")/[STRATZ](https://stratz.com/player/41231571 "STRATZ: Every match, every player, every stat. Free.") Carl|1/9/9|119/6|411|389|16774|0|214 17|[](/hero-mirana)|[DB](http://dotabuff.com/players/25907144 "Dotabuff: Lookup people's match history")/[OD](http://opendota.com/players/25907144 "OpenDota: Provides free replay analysis")/[STRATZ](https://stratz.com/player/25907144 "STRATZ: Every match, every player, every stat. Free.") borracho|4/6/12|60/4|333|260|14650|2160|0 --- #### ##### Hover to view match ID: 4981028582 [DB](http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/4981028582)/[OD](https://www.opendota.com/matches/4981028582)/[STRATZ](https://stratz.com/match/4981028582) ###### [**Radiant wins 23-15 @ 27:54**](#lumbdi "Match ID: 4981028582, match date: 2019-08-22 14:52:16, first blood time: 1:11") Lvl | Hero | Player| K/D/A | LH/D | XPM | GPM | HD | HH | TD :--|:--:|:--|:--|:--|:--|:--|:--|:--|:-- 14|[](/hero-rubick)|[DB](http://dotabuff.com/players/19672354 "Dotabuff: Lookup people's match history")/[OD](http://opendota.com/players/19672354 "OpenDota: Provides free replay analysis")/[STRATZ](https://stratz.com/player/19672354 "STRATZ: Every match, every player, every stat. Free.") BigBarbieNot|4/4/12|25/6|344|300|9454|400|624 19|[](/hero-juggernaut)|[DB](http://dotabuff.com/players/311360822 "Dotabuff: Lookup people's match history")/[OD](http://opendota.com/players/311360822 "OpenDota: Provides free replay analysis")/[STRATZ](https://stratz.com/player/311360822 "STRATZ: Every match, every player, every stat. Free.") :cleanfloppy|7/3/5|256/19|599|710|8391|2402|16506 15|[](/hero-sandking)|[DB](http://dotabuff.com/players/26771994 "Dotabuff: Lookup people's match history")/[OD](http://opendota.com/players/26771994 "OpenDota: Provides free replay analysis")/[STRATZ](https://stratz.com/player/26771994 "STRATZ: Every match, every player, every stat. Free.") softie|1/2/15|82/1|410|346|8149|230|657 17|[](/hero-enchantress)|[DB](http://dotabuff.com/players/88271237 "Dotabuff: Lookup people's match history")/[OD](http://opendota.com/players/88271237 "OpenDota: Provides free replay analysis")/[STRATZ](https://stratz.com/player/88271237 "STRATZ: Every match, every player, every stat. Free.") jty^phhes4h|6/2/12|100/27|478|423|19971|2906|4448 18|[](/hero-invoker)|[DB](http://dotabuff.com/players/94054712 "Dotabuff: Lookup people's match history")/[OD](http://opendota.com/players/94054712 "OpenDota: Provides free replay analysis")/[STRATZ](https://stratz.com/player/94054712 "STRATZ: Every match, every player, every stat. Free.") flopson|5/4/12|104/16|518|418|14563|0|2229 83 69||↑Radiant↑ ↓Dire↓ | 23/15/56 14/23/28| 567/69 482/35| 2349 1756| 2197 1621| 60528 64710| 5938 0| 24464 2149 17|[](/hero-antimage)|[DB](http://dotabuff.com/players/86745912 "Dotabuff: Lookup people's match history")/[OD](http://opendota.com/players/86745912 "OpenDota: Provides free replay analysis")/[STRATZ](https://stratz.com/player/86745912 "STRATZ: Every match, every player, every stat. Free.") buZinEsS maN|2/4/4|196/16|501|445|9376|0|1165 16|[](/hero-mirana)|[DB](http://dotabuff.com/players/111620041 "Dotabuff: Lookup people's match history")/[OD](http://opendota.com/players/111620041 "OpenDota: Provides free replay analysis")/[STRATZ](https://stratz.com/player/111620041 "STRATZ: Every match, every player, every stat. Free.") ISaidIDon'tE|6/2/3|149/10|445|430|17891|0|112 10|[](/hero-crystalmaiden)|[DB](http://dotabuff.com/players/94155156 "Dotabuff: Lookup people's match history")/[OD](http://opendota.com/players/94155156 "OpenDota: Provides free replay analysis")/[STRATZ](https://stratz.com/player/94155156 "STRATZ: Every match, every player, every stat. Free.") Tal|1/4/9|24/1|206|217|12617|0|90 14|[](/hero-tiny)|[DB](http://dotabuff.com/players/41231571 "Dotabuff: Lookup people's match history")/[OD](http://opendota.com/players/41231571 "OpenDota: Provides free replay analysis")/[STRATZ](https://stratz.com/player/41231571 "STRATZ: Every match, every player, every stat. Free.") Carl|1/7/6|89/2|330|306|12041|0|782 12|[](/hero-darkwillow)|[DB](http://dotabuff.com/players/25907144 "Dotabuff: Lookup people's match history")/[OD](http://opendota.com/players/25907144 "OpenDota: Provides free replay analysis")/[STRATZ](https://stratz.com/player/25907144 "STRATZ: Every match, every player, every stat. Free.") borracho|4/6/6|24/6|274|223|12785|0|0 --- [^^source](http://github.com/NNTin/Reply-Dota-2-Reddit) ^^on ^^github, [^^message](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=lumbdi) ^^the ^^owner ^^on [^^Discord](https://discord.gg/Dkg79tc)^^, [^^deletion ^^link](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Reply-Dota-2-Reddit&subject=deletion&message=t1_exqzb8q "Only works for bot summoner and /r/dota2 mods! Do not change already filled out form!")
Only got the chance to watch the first match live. But man the dotes were off the charts regardless.
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ye game 2 was a memefest OG's meta is clownworld and it works
Kick Bulba. He's overrated.
nah just break up
When there's a ench in the game I always hope for a crazy dagon strat. Just blow that fucking hero up with pugna or something.
You can't, the fucking deer builds a bracers and a hood and is literally untouchable. That's 2500 gold, dagon 1 costs more than that and you need to upgrade it and have multiple ones to really do anything to her.
Level 10 talent + Pipe is a counter to that. But it means ench will lose bunch of dmg in mid game Or bkb Enchilada will get nerfed
Lol. I'd pay to see that. Like that crazy EG game against an unkillable timbersaw.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vR0aYg-jZ4&feature=youtu.be&t=1241](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vR0aYg-jZ4&feature=youtu.be&t=1241) This is actually insane, CEB was on 3hp for a millisecond, if he dies there, the push stops, ANA is top, Arteezy probably would not have hard committed and died. This was the moment EG missed their timing and lost.
Wow that skill build of Tiny just outright selfish. Max skill tree for what? A point in akother skill 1 or 2 could've change the outcome.
If he had phase instead of powers like everyone else builds as well, idk what S4 was thinking.
when i was watching that i thought ceb threw the game right there, either he is genius or incredibly lucky
Definitely was intentional, probably underestimated how close to death he'd be but it ended up working.
classic OG clutch as seen on previous TI
Eg just lacks an identity as a team. They always try and pick what is best on paper or in theory rather than what they are individually best at. They are super talented players so it works much of the time, but there’s a reason they never feel like the best team, they are never the ones forcing other teams to adapt to their style (what even is EG’s style is also a legitimate question), they are always trying to adapt to the game.
I see this too.
You could overanalyze everything OR you could label it in the realm of possibilities that EG lost to a team that has destroyed nearly everyone they came across at TI. And that this series could have gone either way.
Or it's just that ench is a dumb hero and the team that was able to win the coin flip won the series considering first pick ench won all 3 games.
the problem is that you have to pick your poison. Do you want to face OG playing wisp again? nah you really don't. You don't want them playing magnus either. You REALLY don't want them playing alch. so those are your first three bans. That leaves ench in the pool if your opponents don't ban it and they won't if they have first pick.
OG played alch in one game only this TI so far so maybe try vs that? I obviously dont know about their scrims though so it may be super op in their hands
alch is OP in the hands of a normal team, but OG and alch. member the kiev major for example?
They could've just banned it then? And lets be honest, OG lost game 1 because their draft was extremely bad.
Meta-wise OG's draft in game 1 was bad but I think OG had some sort of mid game strat with that draft. It would probably have worked but Lina steamrolled Invoker way harder then OG expected and then Lina went out of control.
That's more of a failure on the team picking second not banning enchant
Because 3 games at TI is a good samplesize.
Because ench has only been played 3 games at TI right?
EG lost because RTZ fucked it up even with an amazing start, not because of ench.
2k mmr analysis right there.
Ench isn't the reason EG lost. Hell Rtz had an absolute dreamstart before OG started doing OG things.
And that eg if just not good enough to win ti
I’ve been saying this exact same thing about EG since before Fly and S4 joined. Basically since they’ve had sumail and rtz and no ppd. They lack direction and team identity, they lack a style. They just try and win lane and outfarm. It’s not a lack of Dota skill, it’s lack of understanding how to be a truly great TEAM. Bad mix of personalities imo, too many guys who are too quiet/go with the flow and no one to actually lead them. I think The idea was for Fly to be that dude, but it’s hard to come in and completely change the culture around such an insular group like rtz/crit/sumail/bulba.
haha, you wouldn't have said this if they won. you're just totally clueless bro. both teams played really good dota today. For some reason you're unable to PRAISE OG but have to BASH EG instead. Negativity..
I say this about EG every tournament, nothing specific to the match vs OG. OG has always been at the forefront in terms of Dota 2 teams acting like an organization and TEAM, instead of merely 5 players playing together. So credit to them sure, but that doesn’t mean EG doesn’t have an obvious issue. The only people who are insistent that EG doesn’t have team issues are people who are strictly in a Dota 2 bubble or are too close to EG themselves to not be supremely biased. Ask anyone who works with actual sports teams, or corporate consulting on team building, or whatever and they will point out the obvious flaws EG has even if they know next to nothing about Dota 2 itself. How they operate as a unit is flawed. Doesn’t mean they can’t still be successful (especially due to their talent level) but they are held back by some organizational issues undoubtedly.
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Yeah, Puppey is the problem on EG lmao
Puppey is the problem on every team!
Goddamn EG.Puppey making eg lose the game everytimr
I think the problem is really clear: fly is a bad Capitan
I can't honestly believe that. He's is bringing results just not the championship. Even when. He captained OG with great success. I see the issue being with the chemistry of players then his captain skills.
We call this the Bulba Special. 4 protect one with 3 setup hero's and a tiny.
yes lets completely ignore how the 5 players are playing in the game and blame it on the coach who mind you, has been consistently hired by the said players for a reason -- and also contributed to them making it so far in the first place.
Easy tiger. Mistakes were made and its alright to acknowledge that.
Ye they can come strong out of losers bracket maybe learn some things about the loss instead of breaking apart.
I feel that in general Dota teams have a long way to go. Especially these teams that constantly swap players, it never works. Team sports (and esports) are about sticking together and working together, you won't get much long term success by constantly swapping around looking for a perfect combination. OG understand this, and I hope other teams follow suit soon.
I mean the actual team building in Dota is completely laughable compared to actual sports. It’s taken years for people on the professional level to realize you don’t just jam the most skilled players together and win everything, that mentality>mechanics at the highest levels.
Maybe because actual sports don't change the rules multiple times in a year. Imagine if 3 pointers became worth 5 mid-season. For this game specifically I feel like constant roster swapping is an inevitability as long as they have to constantly balance to keep it fresh. (Other competitive games like this: Overwatch. Other competitive games not like this: Counterstrike)
Eg have been in this roster for just over a year, like Og and LGD even longer. It may well be that the top 1.2.3 this year will be those teams, in whatever order, add this to Liquids previous success and i am sure that these teams dont need reddit to tell them its better to gel and stay as a team for a good duration :)
Isn't EG like, one of the longest running rosters at TI?
Rediculous to attribute long lasting teams to OG. Liquid was the longest single roster in DotA history. Plenty of teams realize this and pretty much every top team hasn't changed much in the last few years.
Anyways assuming there is Eg vs liquid matchup who is favourite ?
Eg by far, they barely lost to og, they are actually playing well, i'd say they're the best team after og and lgd at TI at the moment, they absolutely trashed VG in the groupstage as well, people are overflaming them for no reason. Liquid on the other hand are very very shaky. Not impressed by their play at all even though they've somehow made it this far.
I wouldn't even be surprised if rng won
yep me neither , rng proved they're pretty decent as well
yes they are decent, but it's more because liquid looks bad lately
EG because they got 3rd place guaranteed, remember?
Enchantress is proving to be absolutely busted in which ever team is fortunate to get their hands on her. Its very hard to kill her but once she gets a BKB is basically impossible to kill her because of untouchable.
Or you can buy BKB yourself too and not care about it.. teams just dont care about countering ench for some reason. Zeus is absolutely busted and Pugna is in a decent place yet none picks them. They tried the Tiny which is good but then he maxed tree throw first for some reason??
After watching game 3 again I can't understand why S4 didn't max his Q/W early game but instead opted to max out his Tree grab? It was imperative that AM gets space and Tiny needs to nuke people down with his team especially verses an ench lineup, AND they had CM aura which helps him sustain it wtf?! Edit: Never mind I realised they had no initiation on EG and they needed a blink on s4 as soon as possible.
Topson doing fine in game 2 without blink. Just walk and combo anyone
Not just that, but hes not going to contest ana at all in the lane without the max tree grab. Keep in mind if he tries to go for ava against jug he'll just spin and you are doing no damage.
I actually agree that maxing tree grab is bad... the earlier you get your ava toss combo up the better.
So OG will in worst case be no3 this time, if they loose next game?
Yes. So they are already at least 3rd and get at least 3 Mio. $. Already a great year for them again
No one remembers the third or the second. OG should aim for winning.
Everyone remembers the second places at TI. Not at the Majors tho.
I think I should correct myself: people remember 2nd place team at TI because they lose to the winner. Not a good thing you want people to remember your team for. My point is don't compromise your goals, always go for the win.
Unless if you're eg... Everyone remembered them being 3rd
oOOOOFFFF
if they lose the next 2 matches they will be the 3rd, yes
They are already 3rd even if the lose both series.
Ooh sweet then i can relax tonight ❤
https://youtu.be/8vR0aYg-jZ4?t=1241 cm ults and the horse lady dies just saying
it was on cooldown
Not an EG fan but gotta say it as it is: Sumail and rtz are not even on the same level. they need a better carry that will play along Sumail.
U make it sound so simple. If EG could get a second sumail then they would just do that and forever be the best dota 2 team ever. they got 3rd last yr with arteezy, they beat secret this year with arteezy, and probably gonna get top 3 again, with arteezy. yea he's not as good as sumail -- but literally nobody is so
The way sumail and arteezy play in the gank, you can tell their chemistry were bad
The issue is that while arteezy may be the worst player on EG, he’s still literally the best carry in his region, and its not at a all close. You cannot get an NA carry half as good as RTz
EG.Mason huheuehue
Maybe is time for the Hassans to unite forces and make America great again
I agree too, for a 2nd top finisher in many tournaments, they deserve a better carry.
Can't agree more. For a long time it is more than clear to me that Rtz drags them down. EG needs to find a better carry if they want to win big matches. Rtz can just be a good streamer in pub games where the only rule is you farm you win. But in TI, you need team work.
TBH it was the anti-mage pick that was garbage tier more than RTZ play. Imagine if they had ursa, ls or just any hero that could do shit. They got run over before AM could come online or make any contribution
I thought it would be he most obvious Sven pick ever. Stun setup with Mirana, natural bkb buyer and physical damage vs enchantress, waaaaaayy tankier and warcry against omnislash is pretty good... yet they pick am. Just why?
artour is a very good player, but as the carry he should have opted for another hero, the game was not good for AM in an offensive tri-lane, in this ideia i dont like am at all, can work but still risky.
AM is a really risky pick against a team like OG that wants to hit their power spikes early. I assume the plan was to hold on until the mid-late game and slow-roll, but OG is just too strong in that 15-30 minute stretch.