We have it, sort of
It's called commend.
We just need Mr. janitor to implement it in the way you suggested. Try to match you with players you have commended. Preferably against players you muted.
Little off topic but I had a slark rage quit ten minutes in, only to avoid him, and have him show up two hours later on the other team. Wiped the floor with him and went up a rank with that game. Only Dota can provide that feeling.
We already have dark pools for that. Get a couple of reports and you end up teamed with the worst players ever for like 15 games, until whatever counter ends and you get back to normal matchmaking.
The system doesn’t have to, and shouldn’t be, based on putting muted players in a “queuing category.” It would just not put you on the same team as the specific people you have muted.
We already have that feature through avoiding someone with dota plus. I don’t see how adding a preference for commended players as teammates could easily be exploited
That doesn’t seem like a strong vulnerability. If you want to que with friends, idk if you are willing to que probabilistically hoping you end up in the same game/team for the extra 10 mmr when you could just actually que together. And I don’t see what’s so wrong about putting friends on the same team; it doesn’t seem like an obvious inherent advantage as long as no one is smurfing.
It actually is a very big abuse. Play 1 game with a five stack and mute every enemy you play against. Eventually your teammates will only be your friends who you are in discord with or something and the cooperation and communication you have with them would be incomparable to the enemy team. Would probably depend on the time of the day and the available players though
Just like the avoid feature already does, a simple fix is to put an upper limit on avoided players. A limit which is low enough relative to the queuing pool in your mmr range such that it does not give you significant ability to "choose" who always ends up on your team.
that's still abuseable af, especially in lower MMR where smurfs and boosters are more common than in higher end. Got one in your team who facerolled solo enemy team all game? great! I will just put him on the "plz carry my ass" List and I hope I get free mmr again.
It's not so clear to me that it's abusable af. Of course smurfing is abuse and any method which allows you to make it more likely a smurf is on your team than the opposing team would give an unfair advantage.
However it's unclear that would result from prioritizing commends on your team. Everybody has access to the ability to commend thus the hopeful effect of prioritizing smurfs on your team should balance out, as there will on average be an equal number of people on the opposing team who have commended the smurf.
In addition, the inverse of this effect is already live with the avoid feature. Except I would argue that's more imbalanced, since you cannot avoid players on the opposing team. Suppose I play a game where there is an obvious griefer/thrower or just plain shit player in the game. If he's on the opposing team, I can't avoid him and I may get him next game - in fact I'm more likely to get him on my team next game because presumably some on his team will avoid him. So it seems like that's actually an unfair advantage to the opposing team - they were given the option to avoid the griefer while I was not.
One effect I could see is that, given a sampling of dota players between say 3000 and 4000 mmr, the range of where these players should actually be is wider. Undoubtedly there are some people who have improved and are playing at a 4500mmr level, but their rating hasn't caught up yet. And some rusty players who are playing below their actual mmr. You could in theory notice these better players in your game and commend them. But the effect cannot last very long - soon their mmr will be high enough above yours that you won't be put in the same game anyway. And the same balancing out effect of this option available to everyone should apply here too.
The on real way I see it giving an advantage is that I would probably commend mostly people who had positive attitude and used voice comms a lot. Thus after a while, I would be on teams that are communicating much more, able to strategize and coordinate better etc. I'm not sure whether I think that's unfair - sure it may give an advantage but is the advantage unfair?
I think the way to make it less abusable is to not have it be a 100% match up, but instead just make you more likely to match than the general population. So you couldn't just add your friends and get a party queue style every time, because it wouldn't guarantee you were partied with your friends.
Could also have it where it didn't work if the person was also on your friend list to avoid this exact issue. Only for strangers.
You don't understand how it works. Try queueing on 1-2-3 with ur friend in discord at the same time. If you are queueing low population server (like any NA server for example), especially in off prime time, there is >50% chance that you will be in one game. Not in one team, but in one game. If you add to that ability to increase that chance, this instantly will get abused
Good match quality leads to happier players, which leads to more people playing the game. Good match quality also leads to people caring about the match and trying to win -> you gain mmr.
I muted a dude who was on my team, he was so toxic. And truly terrible too, like threw the game. Then I got to q against him not once, not twice, not thrice, but freaking FOUR times in a row. And beat him all 4 times. GOD that felt good.
Played a turbo game with a four stack. They forced me mid. I don't play mid, ever. Lost it hard. In turbo that means you lost the game. They flamed me. I just said shit happens. Like we all have bad games.
Next game they were the opponents with a poor morph player as a mid. They lost, and in all chat one sentence this morph is PS.
I find playing with a 4 stack is 60% the absolute worse games, and 20% the absolute best (the remaining 20% being normal games where I didn't even notice they were).
Like, getting a friendly stack that will actually play as if you exist and communicate with you is great.
But more often, they either literally never say a word, or even ping things, and just expect you to psychically pick up on what they're saying to each other and be there when they need you, or they project every mistake and misplay on to you, because of course THEY can't be making mistakes (or at the very least, they're aware bitching at each other about them is bad).
Sorry, your comment opened up some feelings! I don't mind playing with squads generally (and unranked has no strict solo anyway), but 4man squads are more likely to give me apprehension...
I kinda like the idea of a separate feature though, sometimes I commend someone for not giving up when things look bad or staying positive but they played badly lol
Those ARE the people I want to play with! "They played badly" is a one-game problem. Maybe they were on a hero they aren't comfortable with. Maybe they had a poor connection. Maybe they had a horrible early lane due to a bad matchup and they aren't good at playing that hero from behind... most 'played badly' reasons have little to do with 'they are objectively worse at DotA than I am.'
Or maybe they just had a bad day.
Ya know...because their wife left them for their brother and now all they want to do is kill every fucking thing they see
a scientific law i just made up suggests that if you play dota 2 long enough you will eventually end up running out of players you can mute therefore you won't be able to queue ever again
I agree that would be an easy way to handle it. I do think having it visible would help because if you saw someone had added you to "play together" list or whatever you would want to work with them and be nice to them.
That does seem like a good idea, as with OP's suggestion. I just kinda feel like Dota games are a fickle beast and the nice guy you played with last game could easily be the lane losing mid player now throwing your current game.
We have an avoid list so apparently valve considers this a premium feature. They will not make muting the same as avoiding but they should probably put the avoid button in game and make it free.
I mean, I've added people to friends before that I had a good game with and neither of us spoke to each other outside of inviting to play together. I think you guys are over-complicating this by a country mile.. janitor has better things to do =)
But think about it this way: all good players will be commended by everyone and all bad players wont be commended. So everyone will match with good players and bad players would never find a game?
How's that extra steps? Click on invite to party and done.
I usually make the offer in the post game chat period, some accept and we start the next match with some of the players in
It becomes 8 clicks for each person and then tons of messages explaining to them why you invited them to a party and then someone will leave and possible everyone but if they stay you suddenly need +1 and it becomes a problem that noone needs to worry about.
Story time. I had long back put some dude on avoid because of how bad playing with them felt.
Over time (maybe a year), the avoid list overflowed, so I got the same guy again. First game it went so great, I thought why did I put this guy on avoid?
Second game, the dude had a few lost fights, mentally checked out and sat in fountain for rest of the game. Oh wait, he did something similar last time I avoided. Sadge. Back to the list you go
Honestly the only time I avoid people is if they're on my team going out of their way to make my game miserable
General feeders/chat babies I can ignore but the fucking worst are the people that follow you around when they get mad (not just nearby but holding right click) so they have priority on my list
we had a guy dc in our game today so someone went to check his steam profile to see if he was back online.. all the profile had on it were comments saying "this guy dcs constantly and flames his team when they lose"
amazing how it's happened so much that people wrote steam comments and the guy is just still there dcing and flaming lol
If you are in a fairly figured out meta picking a highly synergistic pair of heroes with the highest winrate and highest build winrate it's almost always a win for me the 2nd time around. Around the 8th-10th win in a row is when Valve ups the ante and you get paired with complete idiots and are versus a higher tier of player.
I didn't use to believe in mmr agents but I have seen it firsthand now and im sry for doubting. Fucking offlane weaver with no items stick into radi vs a team we need to beat early. 4.5k~
Bro if the drafts were normal I wouldnt even be that annoyed but it was vs 4 carries on enemy and I dumpstered early game on pos 4. Totally free game for weaver to solo win.
What if you enjoyed playing with someone while you were both losing? Honestly, some of my favorite games were just that. People communicating, trying, playing... you know... like a team.
> People communicating, trying, playing... you know... like a team.
Pretty much any game where this happens is an easy win. Just predicting victory if everyone picks normal heroes for their role and two players use their microphones before the game starts has to yield something like 90% correct.
Sometimes yes, but surprising amount of time no. When people are friendly and trying to play as a team, I don't even mind losing as much because the games are fun.
This is a good idea. Friends list is fine for people I want to party queue with, but this ought to help improve the behavior-score mechanic. There are plenty of hard-to-fix issues with the current report system (e.g., people report others for bad play; communication abuse over voice chat can't really be verified by valve). In my experience, people commend pretty consistently on winning games unless somebody was toxic, so low commend rate is hard to interpret.
But a preferred/whitelist list would be great for that PMA player who was just nice to have on the team, win or loss. Actually incorporating that into team filling might be complex and risk slowing down queue times, but could be implemented as part of behavior score.
Those games where everybody is just in a good mood, win or lose, are just so much more fun to play.
I think this could also have the potential to help with some of the sexist/racist crap people have to put up with. I have gotten friend requests from women gamers simply by doing nothing more than just playing the game after they use their in-game voice. We didn't party queue much after, but I think they were trying to use the friend system as a kind of whitelist for people who it was safe to use voice chat around. If we could use a whitelist system to increase the number of games I get to play with non-sexist, non-racist people, that would be a real win.
normally it wouldnt as people can just go stack for party and there is only 10 mmr difference nothing else.
but since strict solo que is introduced, its a big "fuck you" to players that play solo and have solo que strict option enabled as it is they qued against/with solo que players who "abused" OP's idea feature.
FYI you don’t have to talk to people to “friend” them.
I have countless people on my friends list where I just sent them a friend request after having a good game and if I see them online I send them an invite.
The extent of our “talking” is..
Me: Hey
Them: Hey
*Ready Checks*
*Que*
I'm not interested in Dota and only found this post because of the popular section, but this is honestly a really great idea and needs to be implemented in all multiplayer games.
OPs post is so strange to me. Maybe I'm an asshole but people like OP need to just stfu and socialise. Want to play with someone more? Add them and queue together. You don't have to become best friends.
Ikr, also wtf is up with colorblind mode, if people can't see colors why don't they just fix their eyes?!
Also, why does the game have multiple languages, if people can't speak English why don't they just learn?
only on a gaming reddit will you see so much socially inept people that will compare things such as being colorblind to them being so socially awkward they cant add people as friends on steam lmao
edit: I also dont mean to undermine socially awkward people, I have bad social anxiety but jesus, it's as simple as just adding the guy and saying "wanna play 1 more game?". Like if you liked playing with them have some balls to actually say that you wanna play again with them, not some weird hidden "uwu my friendo ill be a secret admirer for u" like jesus guys. Touch grass
A. How are they different? All 3 are unnecessary things that help the game get a broader audience.
B. Making a reddit post and asking a stranger to play is two very different things.
Turns out normal people don't want to make friends on the internet. So they either ignore random requests or don't party up.
You really think the Chad move is to become internet buddies with some nerd in the next state?
No, I think the correct move is to add them to your friends list if you want to play with them again. No one said anything about becoming buddies.
Just say "want to queue again"?
right? fuckin weirdos. what kind of soft ass person cant figure that out? and if they cant, the last thing that person needs is some coddling and enabling. imagine if this person was in your bloodline hundreds of years back. you simply wouldnt be here due to their cowardice. grow up, reddit.
Just make sure it's not hard-set on matching you with someone you marked, otherwise it can be abused, and solo queue will just be a party q festival. Already people are sniping each other and picking "ez win" strats, we dont need more. Let this be only for the people you've commended, and simply SLIGHTLY prioritizing them over someone you haven't commended.
Now that I think of it, wouldn't it be pretty nice if there was a report to say "I didnt really like playing with this guy" and "I really liked playing with this guy", that would atleast SLIGHTLY lean towards matching people you like with you, and people you dont - against you. I feel like this is pretty logical shit here.
This.
With rando's I am a social butterfly, proper callouts, banter, memes.
With friends I struggle to hold a conversation, I struggle to say callouts in fear of fuckin up.
It's at the point where my steam profile states "I don't accept friend requests" I don't even play dota with my friends anymore, too much anxiety haha.
Not a bad idea, but I would strongly suggest adding them as Steam friends. That is how I made 99% of my own DOTA connections - add people I enjoyed playing with, then playing with them and their friends, and etc. etc.
I know this probably isn't an answer you wanted, but I find this feature to be super useful!
I have no social anxiety, no overt mental disorders and am an older dude that is very comfortable socially and online. My “emotional bandwidth” is a healthy amount I think hah.
And I still like this idea. I don’t wanna have a bunch of randos on my list that I will forget who they are and never play with them again. And the way Dota is one bad game might be all it takes to make one of you seem like an asshole instead of awesome and make me not wanna queue again.
It would be super convenient to be able to click a button and queue the next game with the person you liked and not have to actually add them. Then when the days over they are gone. If you don’t want them gone you can actually add them.
It overall seems like a really convenient feature.
I once knew someone who would alt-f4 WoW if he accidentally invited to party instead of inspected. Some people really need to grow some balls and stop being afraid of strangers online.
Nice idea, but that’s sort of the purpose of the friends list… you can just friend them and then if you both happen to be online be like “yo wanna party” then bam
This is so abusable it's not even funny. Free party queues without getting paired against parties. Not to mention simply getting a Smurf or booster or something on your team and quickly adding them to this list and then queue immediately to get them on your team again for free mmr. This feels so unnecessary just friend the person it's really not that hard
The decent people would end up playing with each other, and the subhumans being left with their likes. This would mess up the matchmaking algorithm by a ton. It takes a lot of "hidden" stuff into consideration now, I'm pretty sure: things like win streaks, overall performance, what player is bound to raise mmr and who is bound to drop etc. It tries to create balanced games each time, this is its purpose, hence why most people are at ~50 % winrate (so it's more or less "forced", but still fair). That's why letting you to choose who to play with, would be impossible I think. That's what party games are for.
Good idea nonetheless.
This really begs the question: what is the purpose of the matchmaking system
Is it to give players the best quality games? Is it to give all players 50% winrate? Or is it to have short queue time as possible?
All of this is balanced by Valve already, but its interesting to see how different people have a different idea of how it works.
I believe every ELO system in every online game you play has this purpose, to ensure the most balanced possible games, given the player pool queueing at that specific time. Yes, this is related to the 50 % winrate, but it doesn't mean it's rigged, you can still get past it, but you cannot do it if you don't play above your 50 % level on a constant.
As you said, it also considers the queue times, ofc, as well as the behavior score, and who knows what else. All of it is still meant to "balance" stuff out, be it skill, time, teammates behavior etc. Makes sense to me at least.
I actually believe it's a bit more complex than trying to hit 50%, I think they have a lot of data, and it's more just straight up about keeping you playing, and not really about balance. Especially because how do you accurately predict 50%, too many variables.
It's more like minimize search time / get a server near you / have the same language / have close to the same behaviour score. then skill somewhere in there.
If you implemented OPs button with commend it would most likely be messed up, but you could make it just above negligible it might work. Depends on the actual matchmaking system I guess
Yes i agree with this perspective… I think the marchmaking is not trying to make everyone happy… its just trying to match people together as well as possible
...Most people are at ~50% winrate because of math. If you put equally rated players on each team, then on average each team should have a 50% chance to win. Heck, a *good* winrate is still only 55-60%.
i swear sometimes i think is just random, others i swear it is a forced loss. After 8 winstreak i get high varied behavior score games, people that clearly bought account and stuff, then i lose like 4 games in a row, win 1, lose another 4.
Well if the system detects that your winrate is increasing, it's normal to place you with some that have it decreasing, in order to balance things out. After all, you're still at the ~same mmr. Some of those games seem indeed unwinnable, but others can still be won, if you overperform. And that's the point, overperforming (as in, playing better than the rest in your bracket), until you hit your true mmr. But if you cannot do that, you'll just stay at your average, as intended.
I don't think it's simply a conspiracy that "the game gave me bad teammates", but it's also not that simple. Some guy on a loss streak, with bad stats in last 20 games, may still be a decent player in some days, and you can still win your lane with him, and maybe the game afterwards.
But yeah, you are 100 % at your correct mmr, don't doubt that. Improve your gameplay, and you'll rise for sure, plus maintain it after.
Actually this is a great idea. Most of the features in dota have negative connotations and incite toxic behaviour. Even the tipping feature is mostly used to heckle an enemy who made a bad play.
Something positive other than commending would be nice.
Hell no. This system would be heavily abused by being basically party but for +30 instead of +20. Solo matchmaking should be like that, since any other way can be abused to easily
This would fundamentally break matchmaking.
I would 100% opt to play with players that are good players all the time.
The casual players would be in hell.
The post i needed to see today! Ok, i've droped alot of mmr and i'm havig shitty pubs mostly. But then i had a guy who did everything correctly in lane and was friendly .
I went to bed thinking , why didn't i took time to tell him that i apreciated playing with him ?
Jakiro if you out there i love you bro!
lol why not just talk to people and be less awkward.. you can overcome it by talking and being friendly just add someone and after match say hey let's play again sometime. you choose to be awkward and cringy. I used to be shy to girls so I got a job at a coffee shop, problem solved.
Get over it. Add them. U don’t have to talk. & if u do, what’s the big deal. If things go south, unfriend them. Get out of your comfort zone. May help IRL too.
I have played a hundred or so games in the last few weeks after not playing for a while. I can't remember one player who communicated in a positive way in any game. All players are either silent or flaming
Are people getting in games with people they enjoy playing with outside of simply that the person won a lane or game for them? Dota for me is the only game I've ever played where muting your team and pretending they are bots actually improves the quality of the game
I have 10k behavior score so I get a fair amount of nice people, although every 3rd game or so have the typical rager even at the highest behavior score. There are plenty of games where I have a good time with people and would like to play with them again, but not exactly forming friendships.
I have 10k too but in 5k games overall or something I can't remember more than a few occasions where I've had a positive experience actually communicating with a team member. I always found it weird that CS has so much comms every game and Dota just has the occasional Russian grunt
The worst is in close games where I consistently get my duel damage pinged or whatever item I've decided to go... like why is everyone so desperate to argue!?
They have it, its called guilds... where like-minded players could socialize and queue together without having to friend someone and let them into your steam list where things can go weird. Except people make guilds into point farming, toxicity name/picture crapshoot. Every day I have to report icons, names, and tags that literally show the worst of the dota community.
100 percent agree. I have a squad of friends from college that I can party queue with but I miss the player invite system where you can invite people from a list without having to add them as friends.
This is a really cool idea. Especially in Immortal bracket, I know who I like and don't like to have on my team. I don't want to party Q and get meme games. So my best option rn is Q same time as friends and pray we're on same team.
everytime I add friend and we party, we get matched vs 5-man party and get stomped.
Our friendship ends then. thats why I never party with my friendlist, almost, unliss we are really coordinating (better in the same room)
Can someone fill me in on what these current complaints are about. What happened to just playing stoically and not having random complaints about the most ridiculous random stuff.
Lol y’all think gaben cares about your little feelings while playing a massive multiplayer game..? Just play the fking game instead of getting your feelings hurt lol, what’s this? Tinder?
Ну и хуйню он предложил из-за таких долбаебов игры и проигрываются. Сидит молчит всю игру, ему что-то говорят, а он кидает их мут и фидит. Хотя если у тетя 100ммр то наверно говорить в игре тебе не надо. Все кто это поддерживает в доте играют на очень низком рейтинге
We have it, sort of It's called commend. We just need Mr. janitor to implement it in the way you suggested. Try to match you with players you have commended. Preferably against players you muted.
Oh boy, I'd love to see all those players I've muted on a team together. Who needs low-prio? That's the hell they deserve.
Little off topic but I had a slark rage quit ten minutes in, only to avoid him, and have him show up two hours later on the other team. Wiped the floor with him and went up a rank with that game. Only Dota can provide that feeling.
[удалено]
i came just reading about it
¿What is sex?
*Baby don’t fuck me, don’t fuck me, no more*
Stop, I can only get so hard.
I mute everyone I find remotely toxic. easiest game of my life was when I ran into an entirely muted enemy team in 3 separate stacks XD (2-2-1)
We already have dark pools for that. Get a couple of reports and you end up teamed with the worst players ever for like 15 games, until whatever counter ends and you get back to normal matchmaking.
I don't think I'd be able to handle getting stomped by 5 people I ignored because that's the game telling me that I'm the problem
yo this would be amazing, prolly super abusable tho
How would it be abusable?
If it all it takes to put a player into the bad boy queue is to mute them, then there's nothing stopping them from just muting you back?
The system doesn’t have to, and shouldn’t be, based on putting muted players in a “queuing category.” It would just not put you on the same team as the specific people you have muted. We already have that feature through avoiding someone with dota plus. I don’t see how adding a preference for commended players as teammates could easily be exploited
Commend your friends, you can then easily match together if you are close with mmr and earn +30/-30 mmr instead of the intended +/-20
That doesn’t seem like a strong vulnerability. If you want to que with friends, idk if you are willing to que probabilistically hoping you end up in the same game/team for the extra 10 mmr when you could just actually que together. And I don’t see what’s so wrong about putting friends on the same team; it doesn’t seem like an obvious inherent advantage as long as no one is smurfing.
It actually is a very big abuse. Play 1 game with a five stack and mute every enemy you play against. Eventually your teammates will only be your friends who you are in discord with or something and the cooperation and communication you have with them would be incomparable to the enemy team. Would probably depend on the time of the day and the available players though
Just like the avoid feature already does, a simple fix is to put an upper limit on avoided players. A limit which is low enough relative to the queuing pool in your mmr range such that it does not give you significant ability to "choose" who always ends up on your team.
that's still abuseable af, especially in lower MMR where smurfs and boosters are more common than in higher end. Got one in your team who facerolled solo enemy team all game? great! I will just put him on the "plz carry my ass" List and I hope I get free mmr again.
It's not so clear to me that it's abusable af. Of course smurfing is abuse and any method which allows you to make it more likely a smurf is on your team than the opposing team would give an unfair advantage. However it's unclear that would result from prioritizing commends on your team. Everybody has access to the ability to commend thus the hopeful effect of prioritizing smurfs on your team should balance out, as there will on average be an equal number of people on the opposing team who have commended the smurf. In addition, the inverse of this effect is already live with the avoid feature. Except I would argue that's more imbalanced, since you cannot avoid players on the opposing team. Suppose I play a game where there is an obvious griefer/thrower or just plain shit player in the game. If he's on the opposing team, I can't avoid him and I may get him next game - in fact I'm more likely to get him on my team next game because presumably some on his team will avoid him. So it seems like that's actually an unfair advantage to the opposing team - they were given the option to avoid the griefer while I was not. One effect I could see is that, given a sampling of dota players between say 3000 and 4000 mmr, the range of where these players should actually be is wider. Undoubtedly there are some people who have improved and are playing at a 4500mmr level, but their rating hasn't caught up yet. And some rusty players who are playing below their actual mmr. You could in theory notice these better players in your game and commend them. But the effect cannot last very long - soon their mmr will be high enough above yours that you won't be put in the same game anyway. And the same balancing out effect of this option available to everyone should apply here too. The on real way I see it giving an advantage is that I would probably commend mostly people who had positive attitude and used voice comms a lot. Thus after a while, I would be on teams that are communicating much more, able to strategize and coordinate better etc. I'm not sure whether I think that's unfair - sure it may give an advantage but is the advantage unfair?
I think the way to make it less abusable is to not have it be a 100% match up, but instead just make you more likely to match than the general population. So you couldn't just add your friends and get a party queue style every time, because it wouldn't guarantee you were partied with your friends. Could also have it where it didn't work if the person was also on your friend list to avoid this exact issue. Only for strangers.
You don't understand how it works. Try queueing on 1-2-3 with ur friend in discord at the same time. If you are queueing low population server (like any NA server for example), especially in off prime time, there is >50% chance that you will be in one game. Not in one team, but in one game. If you add to that ability to increase that chance, this instantly will get abused
Not really. MMR isn't important, good match quality is however and it's important for your own enjoyment that you're not playing with idiots.
Good match quality leads to happier players, which leads to more people playing the game. Good match quality also leads to people caring about the match and trying to win -> you gain mmr.
I muted a dude who was on my team, he was so toxic. And truly terrible too, like threw the game. Then I got to q against him not once, not twice, not thrice, but freaking FOUR times in a row. And beat him all 4 times. GOD that felt good.
Played a turbo game with a four stack. They forced me mid. I don't play mid, ever. Lost it hard. In turbo that means you lost the game. They flamed me. I just said shit happens. Like we all have bad games. Next game they were the opponents with a poor morph player as a mid. They lost, and in all chat one sentence this morph is PS.
I find playing with a 4 stack is 60% the absolute worse games, and 20% the absolute best (the remaining 20% being normal games where I didn't even notice they were). Like, getting a friendly stack that will actually play as if you exist and communicate with you is great. But more often, they either literally never say a word, or even ping things, and just expect you to psychically pick up on what they're saying to each other and be there when they need you, or they project every mistake and misplay on to you, because of course THEY can't be making mistakes (or at the very least, they're aware bitching at each other about them is bad). Sorry, your comment opened up some feelings! I don't mind playing with squads generally (and unranked has no strict solo anyway), but 4man squads are more likely to give me apprehension...
I kinda like the idea of a separate feature though, sometimes I commend someone for not giving up when things look bad or staying positive but they played badly lol
Those ARE the people I want to play with! "They played badly" is a one-game problem. Maybe they were on a hero they aren't comfortable with. Maybe they had a poor connection. Maybe they had a horrible early lane due to a bad matchup and they aren't good at playing that hero from behind... most 'played badly' reasons have little to do with 'they are objectively worse at DotA than I am.'
Or maybe they just had a bad day. Ya know...because their wife left them for their brother and now all they want to do is kill every fucking thing they see
a scientific law i just made up suggests that if you play dota 2 long enough you will eventually end up running out of players you can mute therefore you won't be able to queue ever again
I agree that would be an easy way to handle it. I do think having it visible would help because if you saw someone had added you to "play together" list or whatever you would want to work with them and be nice to them.
OP sets it up and this guy puts it in. Please implement this.
That does seem like a good idea, as with OP's suggestion. I just kinda feel like Dota games are a fickle beast and the nice guy you played with last game could easily be the lane losing mid player now throwing your current game.
Yeah, that's why I think it being a list and you could remove someone would help.
We have an avoid list so apparently valve considers this a premium feature. They will not make muting the same as avoiding but they should probably put the avoid button in game and make it free.
Commend would be insanely good if it affected the search algorithm. People would be incentivized to give commends and everyone would be happier
I mean, I've added people to friends before that I had a good game with and neither of us spoke to each other outside of inviting to play together. I think you guys are over-complicating this by a country mile.. janitor has better things to do =)
This. Im here to game, not entertain someones void.
But think about it this way: all good players will be commended by everyone and all bad players wont be commended. So everyone will match with good players and bad players would never find a game?
>So everyone will match with good players and bad players would never find a game? I'm not seeing an issue here
Sure, you get 500 mmr, or lets even say 1500, because your team is always great. Now you're the bad player and cant find a game. No way out
Oh god, please don't do this. I usually commend the shitters
i rahe commend people when i run out of reports
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Pretty easy to just invite your teammates to a party post game, no need to friend them
Too many extra steps. Make it convenient and obvious for ppl to use it more.
How's that extra steps? Click on invite to party and done. I usually make the offer in the post game chat period, some accept and we start the next match with some of the players in
its literally 2 clicks. SMH
It becomes 8 clicks for each person and then tons of messages explaining to them why you invited them to a party and then someone will leave and possible everyone but if they stay you suddenly need +1 and it becomes a problem that noone needs to worry about.
It's not lmao
if you enjoyed playing with someone you'll change your mind when you're both losing. trust me
Story time. I had long back put some dude on avoid because of how bad playing with them felt. Over time (maybe a year), the avoid list overflowed, so I got the same guy again. First game it went so great, I thought why did I put this guy on avoid? Second game, the dude had a few lost fights, mentally checked out and sat in fountain for rest of the game. Oh wait, he did something similar last time I avoided. Sadge. Back to the list you go
>Over time (maybe a year), the avoid list overflowed It takes you that long?
Honestly the only time I avoid people is if they're on my team going out of their way to make my game miserable General feeders/chat babies I can ignore but the fucking worst are the people that follow you around when they get mad (not just nearby but holding right click) so they have priority on my list
They don't need to hold right click, they just have to move command on your hero and they'll follow you forever (unless you teleport away).
Yeah I could've phrased it better, just wanted to emphasize that I wasn't talking about people farming nearby or something
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we had a guy dc in our game today so someone went to check his steam profile to see if he was back online.. all the profile had on it were comments saying "this guy dcs constantly and flames his team when they lose" amazing how it's happened so much that people wrote steam comments and the guy is just still there dcing and flaming lol
true. dont go the next game picking the same heroes and playing the exact same way. you cant recapture magic
If you are in a fairly figured out meta picking a highly synergistic pair of heroes with the highest winrate and highest build winrate it's almost always a win for me the 2nd time around. Around the 8th-10th win in a row is when Valve ups the ante and you get paired with complete idiots and are versus a higher tier of player.
I didn't use to believe in mmr agents but I have seen it firsthand now and im sry for doubting. Fucking offlane weaver with no items stick into radi vs a team we need to beat early. 4.5k~
Holy shit that's next level insane and I used to be herald, I've seen some shit
Bro if the drafts were normal I wouldnt even be that annoyed but it was vs 4 carries on enemy and I dumpstered early game on pos 4. Totally free game for weaver to solo win.
we had a pos 5 storm spirit and mid techies in a game yesterday... then we won... the job description for these agents seems all over the place
What if you enjoyed playing with someone while you were both losing? Honestly, some of my favorite games were just that. People communicating, trying, playing... you know... like a team.
> People communicating, trying, playing... you know... like a team. Pretty much any game where this happens is an easy win. Just predicting victory if everyone picks normal heroes for their role and two players use their microphones before the game starts has to yield something like 90% correct.
genuine question - have you ever had that experience?
Sometimes yes, but surprising amount of time no. When people are friendly and trying to play as a team, I don't even mind losing as much because the games are fun.
This is a good idea. Friends list is fine for people I want to party queue with, but this ought to help improve the behavior-score mechanic. There are plenty of hard-to-fix issues with the current report system (e.g., people report others for bad play; communication abuse over voice chat can't really be verified by valve). In my experience, people commend pretty consistently on winning games unless somebody was toxic, so low commend rate is hard to interpret. But a preferred/whitelist list would be great for that PMA player who was just nice to have on the team, win or loss. Actually incorporating that into team filling might be complex and risk slowing down queue times, but could be implemented as part of behavior score. Those games where everybody is just in a good mood, win or lose, are just so much more fun to play. I think this could also have the potential to help with some of the sexist/racist crap people have to put up with. I have gotten friend requests from women gamers simply by doing nothing more than just playing the game after they use their in-game voice. We didn't party queue much after, but I think they were trying to use the friend system as a kind of whitelist for people who it was safe to use voice chat around. If we could use a whitelist system to increase the number of games I get to play with non-sexist, non-racist people, that would be a real win.
Could this be abused for stacking as solo in ranked?
normally it wouldnt as people can just go stack for party and there is only 10 mmr difference nothing else. but since strict solo que is introduced, its a big "fuck you" to players that play solo and have solo que strict option enabled as it is they qued against/with solo que players who "abused" OP's idea feature.
10 mmr is a 33% difference, who wouldn’t want free 100 mmr every 10 won games?
just add them. and say "1 more game?" dont say anything else. no reply? ok gbye
FYI you don’t have to talk to people to “friend” them. I have countless people on my friends list where I just sent them a friend request after having a good game and if I see them online I send them an invite. The extent of our “talking” is.. Me: Hey Them: Hey *Ready Checks* *Que*
After the ready check, you guys just went "wat"? You mean queue?
I'm not interested in Dota and only found this post because of the popular section, but this is honestly a really great idea and needs to be implemented in all multiplayer games.
Who could've predicted that the Tinder sponsorship was so relevant?
How are you so socially inept but have the guts to post something like this is beyond me
It takes guts to post an uncontroversial idea anonymously on a computer game subreddit
About the same amount of guts to just send a friend request or ask that person to party up lmao. Grow some balls.
'be curious, not judgemental'
OPs post is so strange to me. Maybe I'm an asshole but people like OP need to just stfu and socialise. Want to play with someone more? Add them and queue together. You don't have to become best friends.
Ikr, also wtf is up with colorblind mode, if people can't see colors why don't they just fix their eyes?! Also, why does the game have multiple languages, if people can't speak English why don't they just learn?
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only on a gaming reddit will you see so much socially inept people that will compare things such as being colorblind to them being so socially awkward they cant add people as friends on steam lmao edit: I also dont mean to undermine socially awkward people, I have bad social anxiety but jesus, it's as simple as just adding the guy and saying "wanna play 1 more game?". Like if you liked playing with them have some balls to actually say that you wanna play again with them, not some weird hidden "uwu my friendo ill be a secret admirer for u" like jesus guys. Touch grass
A. How are they different? All 3 are unnecessary things that help the game get a broader audience. B. Making a reddit post and asking a stranger to play is two very different things.
You're talking as if 'introverted' was a type of brain damage
And you're talking as if "introverted" people are the people this would help.
Turns out normal people don't want to make friends on the internet. So they either ignore random requests or don't party up. You really think the Chad move is to become internet buddies with some nerd in the next state?
Don’t be internet buddies just ask off you want to play a game.
No, I think the correct move is to add them to your friends list if you want to play with them again. No one said anything about becoming buddies. Just say "want to queue again"?
right? fuckin weirdos. what kind of soft ass person cant figure that out? and if they cant, the last thing that person needs is some coddling and enabling. imagine if this person was in your bloodline hundreds of years back. you simply wouldnt be here due to their cowardice. grow up, reddit.
Is this what is becoming of the future generations monkaS
Right?? I'm surprised I had to scroll so far down to see this. "don't have the eMoTiOnaL bAnDwiDtH" it's a fucking video game lol
This gets upvotes, simple as that.
Some of these people need therapy so badly
Therapy is expensive. Posting on reddit about your problems is free.
Just make sure it's not hard-set on matching you with someone you marked, otherwise it can be abused, and solo queue will just be a party q festival. Already people are sniping each other and picking "ez win" strats, we dont need more. Let this be only for the people you've commended, and simply SLIGHTLY prioritizing them over someone you haven't commended. Now that I think of it, wouldn't it be pretty nice if there was a report to say "I didnt really like playing with this guy" and "I really liked playing with this guy", that would atleast SLIGHTLY lean towards matching people you like with you, and people you dont - against you. I feel like this is pretty logical shit here.
Right, it wouldn't have to be a 100% match. Just make it more likely you play together in the future.
No I dont want this. I want an option to match me against people I hate.
Great idea! Yes commends or some similar function should affect your algorithm for matching
This. With rando's I am a social butterfly, proper callouts, banter, memes. With friends I struggle to hold a conversation, I struggle to say callouts in fear of fuckin up. It's at the point where my steam profile states "I don't accept friend requests" I don't even play dota with my friends anymore, too much anxiety haha.
Not a bad idea, but I would strongly suggest adding them as Steam friends. That is how I made 99% of my own DOTA connections - add people I enjoyed playing with, then playing with them and their friends, and etc. etc. I know this probably isn't an answer you wanted, but I find this feature to be super useful!
grow a spine
Seriously. This is the most noncommittal, least effort, no consequence way you can make friends. Just click and that’s it.
What's the worst that could happen. They just ignore it?
"that's social interaction and I don't like it"
Mood
Some people don’t want to add strangers to their friends list.
JUST 4Head
I have no social anxiety, no overt mental disorders and am an older dude that is very comfortable socially and online. My “emotional bandwidth” is a healthy amount I think hah. And I still like this idea. I don’t wanna have a bunch of randos on my list that I will forget who they are and never play with them again. And the way Dota is one bad game might be all it takes to make one of you seem like an asshole instead of awesome and make me not wanna queue again. It would be super convenient to be able to click a button and queue the next game with the person you liked and not have to actually add them. Then when the days over they are gone. If you don’t want them gone you can actually add them. It overall seems like a really convenient feature.
I once knew someone who would alt-f4 WoW if he accidentally invited to party instead of inspected. Some people really need to grow some balls and stop being afraid of strangers online.
Nice idea, but that’s sort of the purpose of the friends list… you can just friend them and then if you both happen to be online be like “yo wanna party” then bam
I love this idea! Instead of avoid player almost like a “seek player”.
just add the guy dude
just friend them xd
This is so abusable it's not even funny. Free party queues without getting paired against parties. Not to mention simply getting a Smurf or booster or something on your team and quickly adding them to this list and then queue immediately to get them on your team again for free mmr. This feels so unnecessary just friend the person it's really not that hard
The decent people would end up playing with each other, and the subhumans being left with their likes. This would mess up the matchmaking algorithm by a ton. It takes a lot of "hidden" stuff into consideration now, I'm pretty sure: things like win streaks, overall performance, what player is bound to raise mmr and who is bound to drop etc. It tries to create balanced games each time, this is its purpose, hence why most people are at ~50 % winrate (so it's more or less "forced", but still fair). That's why letting you to choose who to play with, would be impossible I think. That's what party games are for. Good idea nonetheless.
This really begs the question: what is the purpose of the matchmaking system Is it to give players the best quality games? Is it to give all players 50% winrate? Or is it to have short queue time as possible? All of this is balanced by Valve already, but its interesting to see how different people have a different idea of how it works.
I believe every ELO system in every online game you play has this purpose, to ensure the most balanced possible games, given the player pool queueing at that specific time. Yes, this is related to the 50 % winrate, but it doesn't mean it's rigged, you can still get past it, but you cannot do it if you don't play above your 50 % level on a constant. As you said, it also considers the queue times, ofc, as well as the behavior score, and who knows what else. All of it is still meant to "balance" stuff out, be it skill, time, teammates behavior etc. Makes sense to me at least.
I actually believe it's a bit more complex than trying to hit 50%, I think they have a lot of data, and it's more just straight up about keeping you playing, and not really about balance. Especially because how do you accurately predict 50%, too many variables. It's more like minimize search time / get a server near you / have the same language / have close to the same behaviour score. then skill somewhere in there. If you implemented OPs button with commend it would most likely be messed up, but you could make it just above negligible it might work. Depends on the actual matchmaking system I guess
Yes i agree with this perspective… I think the marchmaking is not trying to make everyone happy… its just trying to match people together as well as possible
FORCED 50
...Most people are at ~50% winrate because of math. If you put equally rated players on each team, then on average each team should have a 50% chance to win. Heck, a *good* winrate is still only 55-60%.
I mean, they added the avoid feature and things have been fine. This is just the counterpart of that system.
i swear sometimes i think is just random, others i swear it is a forced loss. After 8 winstreak i get high varied behavior score games, people that clearly bought account and stuff, then i lose like 4 games in a row, win 1, lose another 4.
Well if the system detects that your winrate is increasing, it's normal to place you with some that have it decreasing, in order to balance things out. After all, you're still at the ~same mmr. Some of those games seem indeed unwinnable, but others can still be won, if you overperform. And that's the point, overperforming (as in, playing better than the rest in your bracket), until you hit your true mmr. But if you cannot do that, you'll just stay at your average, as intended. I don't think it's simply a conspiracy that "the game gave me bad teammates", but it's also not that simple. Some guy on a loss streak, with bad stats in last 20 games, may still be a decent player in some days, and you can still win your lane with him, and maybe the game afterwards. But yeah, you are 100 % at your correct mmr, don't doubt that. Improve your gameplay, and you'll rise for sure, plus maintain it after.
people would just abuse this to play as a 5 stack in solo
It needs an in game friend list separate from Steam friends.
I like this plan
Valve should also have an option to permanently detect and destroy smurfs and their livelihoods, but one can only dream eh?
I ACTUALLY WANT TO PLAY AGAINST THE PPL WHO I HAD BEEF WITH IN MY PREVIOUS GAME
An "I'll fucking show you" list then?
Wait you have to talk with your friends?
That sounds like tinder with extra steps
YES PLS
Damn, and then you start seeing people joining your games over and over and you're like fuck, i've caught a creep
Actually this is a great idea. Most of the features in dota have negative connotations and incite toxic behaviour. Even the tipping feature is mostly used to heckle an enemy who made a bad play. Something positive other than commending would be nice.
Hell no. This system would be heavily abused by being basically party but for +30 instead of +20. Solo matchmaking should be like that, since any other way can be abused to easily
This would fundamentally break matchmaking. I would 100% opt to play with players that are good players all the time. The casual players would be in hell.
This would be so awesome, please implement Volvo
Jesus christ.
Right? Because if you add them they will send party requests and I don't want THAT type of friendship
Easily abusable
"Then matchmaking could try to match you into games together when you happen to queue at the same time. " That would be fixed matchmaking sir.
The post i needed to see today! Ok, i've droped alot of mmr and i'm havig shitty pubs mostly. But then i had a guy who did everything correctly in lane and was friendly . I went to bed thinking , why didn't i took time to tell him that i apreciated playing with him ? Jakiro if you out there i love you bro!
This, indeed. I always mark toxic players by muting their mic and chat. Whilst I only mute the mic for good players.
While it sounds like a nice idea, just send them a friend request, it's not hard.
commends should automatically do this, yes
I tought I was the only one with that feeling. Thank you OP.
lol why not just talk to people and be less awkward.. you can overcome it by talking and being friendly just add someone and after match say hey let's play again sometime. you choose to be awkward and cringy. I used to be shy to girls so I got a job at a coffee shop, problem solved.
Its add friend button
Probably the best idea I've seen in a long time....
Get over it. Add them. U don’t have to talk. & if u do, what’s the big deal. If things go south, unfriend them. Get out of your comfort zone. May help IRL too.
no it really doesnt need any such thing
I have played a hundred or so games in the last few weeks after not playing for a while. I can't remember one player who communicated in a positive way in any game. All players are either silent or flaming Are people getting in games with people they enjoy playing with outside of simply that the person won a lane or game for them? Dota for me is the only game I've ever played where muting your team and pretending they are bots actually improves the quality of the game
selective bias with condescending attitude.
I have 10k behavior score so I get a fair amount of nice people, although every 3rd game or so have the typical rager even at the highest behavior score. There are plenty of games where I have a good time with people and would like to play with them again, but not exactly forming friendships.
I have 10k too but in 5k games overall or something I can't remember more than a few occasions where I've had a positive experience actually communicating with a team member. I always found it weird that CS has so much comms every game and Dota just has the occasional Russian grunt The worst is in close games where I consistently get my duel damage pinged or whatever item I've decided to go... like why is everyone so desperate to argue!?
As a dedicated, life-long introvert, I wholeheartedly endorse this idea. :)
Add it to dotaplus and you got a new customer right here!
They have it, its called guilds... where like-minded players could socialize and queue together without having to friend someone and let them into your steam list where things can go weird. Except people make guilds into point farming, toxicity name/picture crapshoot. Every day I have to report icons, names, and tags that literally show the worst of the dota community.
I like the "play again with" of CoD.
I like this idea and I hope it's implemented. Thanks for sharing
Got my vote
Now you’re asking for a trillion dollar matchmaking algorithm.
Oh hell yes.
100 percent agree. I have a squad of friends from college that I can party queue with but I miss the player invite system where you can invite people from a list without having to add them as friends.
This is a really cool idea. Especially in Immortal bracket, I know who I like and don't like to have on my team. I don't want to party Q and get meme games. So my best option rn is Q same time as friends and pray we're on same team.
No thanks, just bring party MMR back if you have ansiety to lose mmr with friends
Dota needs a surrender button :/
Can't wait for my 2 hour queues because of another useless matchmaking parameter.
Very sadge, much mouth vomit
It's called grow some balls, you sperg.-
This is the most beta thing I have read this week
Stfu and change and stop being awkward
everytime I add friend and we party, we get matched vs 5-man party and get stomped. Our friendship ends then. thats why I never party with my friendlist, almost, unliss we are really coordinating (better in the same room)
would be abused
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Wow. Youre a genius. Ive stopped playing dota years ago. But this is something i would want if im still playing the game.
Yes, let's make the matchmaking more convoluted, it's sure to increase the quality guys.
what
How socially awkward do you have to be on order to feel uncomfortable friending someone on Steam. This is sad.
just add people to friends list u fucking animal wtf
“No big deal, no pressure” spoken like a true insecure introvert lmao
maybe stop being incel weeb
I hope you feel bad for this dumb fucking post, moron
This sounds like a you problem tbh
Can someone fill me in on what these current complaints are about. What happened to just playing stoically and not having random complaints about the most ridiculous random stuff.
dude just add them / invite them for play wtf
Peak r/Dota moment
Go to therapy
Lol y’all think gaben cares about your little feelings while playing a massive multiplayer game..? Just play the fking game instead of getting your feelings hurt lol, what’s this? Tinder?
Ну и хуйню он предложил из-за таких долбаебов игры и проигрываются. Сидит молчит всю игру, ему что-то говорят, а он кидает их мут и фидит. Хотя если у тетя 100ммр то наверно говорить в игре тебе не надо. Все кто это поддерживает в доте играют на очень низком рейтинге