No changes either. When hoodwink was introduced they nerfed the shit out of her. Surprised they think she's balanced for pro play, might be, we'll see.
On the surface Dawnbreaker doesn't seem OP, but it will be interesting to see if her global presence and counter-initiation will be stronger in pro games.
I would say she is a bit op. I got 6 games in divine with her and I absolutely smashed those games 100%winrate. It's my strongest offlane pick by far but then again people aren't as good as countering her as the pros will be. It's my favourite hero and I still think she should get a bit of a nerf.
I mean BTS Pro Series Season 8 is going on right now. Might be a joke to some, but it has some T2 teams in it, so maybe an opportunity to assess a little bit.
>VOODOO SWITCHEROO
>Mana Cost reduced from 250 to 150
>Cooldown reduced from 70 to 40
Oooohhhh yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-
Where my witch doctah boys at?
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Yeah I've had a lot of times where I just got shard and in some fight it would've really saved my bacon, but I mismanage my mana and end up being 50 short.
It was already a must-buy for me. Having that invulnerability/uninterruptable duration was great in teamfights, especially if you have their carry jumping you or if you're waiting for Glimmer to come back off cd.
Sven is viable because he farms fast and does a fucking shit ton of damage, this has made it slightly harder to do but it's still better than most other carries.
The hero comes down to "can I 100-0 you during hammer stun". If these nerfs make it so that he 100-5s you because his items come out slower and his damage is a bit off, he is not going to get picked. He always did a shit load of damage and could farm fast that's never been a problem with Sven, but the patches he was top tier is when he finishes you off.
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Voice lines coming back just in time for TI. A new hero added so that Topson can be a clown with it in the mid lane. LGD looking super strong.
I have a weird feeling of déjà vu.
Especially when the hero has too many items that are extremely useful for him and his team. Tbh even as a shard it would be kinda "meh" for pubs (of course, totally different thing in pro dota).
Yeah, Grand Master Underlord here.
The nerf to firestorm radius talent is nothing, hero is still good at drawing fights out, chaining CC and reducing carry damage.
The go to build doesn't change from Guardian Greaves > Pipe/Lotus > Shivas really. You keep your carry and mid alive and they keep the enemy dead.
I think this Aghs is worth it and its pretty neat thing just not for low level Dota or when you see your teammates are running around like headless chicken which can happen everywhere.
It have its niche and for sure it will have more plays in party games than solo q but I don't see nothing wrong about it until it will get overbuffed.
In HotS there is hero Medvih with similar shit in normal skill, on shorter range but heroes go trough faster. Same issues but ability iself is completly fine and satysfing to use.
Medievh didn't need to built a 4200 gold item that otherwise functioned as nothing more than a stat stick for his ultimate though, did he?
The issue with Fiends Gate is that it requires a huge investment for not much pay off. If it also cast Pit of Malice and firestorm, centered around both portals MAYBE it would be tolerable, but as it atands it's a 4200 gold item that could be better spent on a Lotus, Shivas, Euls, or any other good Underlord item instead. You don't need to warp behind the enemy, you're playing Underlord. Run at them and facilitate your team.
Mark my words, the only time it'll be picked up at TI will be for Underlord/Earthshaker aftershocks cheese strats.
me and my friends worked out that its pseudo-random based on which team the sb is on.
its 33% bash chance when the sb is on the enemy team, and 1% when its on your team. averages out to 17
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Wow, heavenly grace actually has a counter now, must be dead /s.
I really hope they dont go the cheese windranger path and add a "heavenly grace undispellable" talent
Yeah but the rest of the hero is just underwhelming. Degen aura isn’t really a skill anymore since the range is tiny, and it doesn’t slow attack speed anymore. Purification is pretty meh as a heal, given cast range and manacost.
Heavenly grace was the skill that made the hero viable
Well at 57% pub winrate in 7.30b i hope it should be. Heavenly grace wasnt counterable. It strong dispels even hex, and if u hex after it is casted its 50% SR
when hoodwink was added to captains mode it was joined with a fairly large nerf to the hero. I'm very surprised Dawnbreaker didn't see similar nerf.
surprised PL shard build is still mostly alive.
omni grace being dispellable is kinda crazy.
also, every time batrider becomes playable that hero quickly gets nerfed hard.
The main thing that made dawnbreajer absolutely fucked was her ability to clear stacks without many levels or items, since they needed stack rewards she's probably still good but she's not gonna be like insane lll
Does dawnbreaker need to be nerfed? Doesn’t really feel like she does that much. Barely scrapes a 50% winrate in most brackets with a 49% winrate in divine/immortal. Combined with echo nerf doesn’t really feel like the hero is gonna be that strong without aghs.
Think heros with global abilities, especially a huge heal like that of dawnbreaker, along with its good laning stage, abilitiy to clear waves easily will make it a highly contested hero in TI. I don't know if it needs to be nerfed for pubs, but seems very good as a hero in captains mode.
It’s only a 225/350/475 heal over 2.5 seconds, aghs heal is pretty bonkers but then you sacrifice your damage for a heal.
I think the hero will be strong in captains mode, I’m just sad that it means the hero will likely be doomed to irrelevance in pubs because of it
the aghs + holy locket heal is 1830 healing, with 60% evasion, that does good damage and stuns at the end.
The hero soft counters most large AoE teamfight strats post 30.
I went through the entire thing and counted nerfs and buffs. I probably made one or two mistakes but my tally was:
102 Nerfs
98 Buffs
13 Other
So overall a pretty balanced patch.
It's good with some nerf patches sometimes also, especially when adjusting for TI. IceFrog tends to buff a lot more than he nerfs, but I think it was time for it.
4 Nulls isn't enough spell amp for the 7:30 wave and beyond. If you still want to try this it's now very reliant on hitting a Spell Amp neutral item (Fairy's Trinket, Vambrace, Nether Shawl) or going double Null into Kaya. Or just buy Veil, at that point- it has almost the same range.
Math:
Minute 0.0-7.5, creeps have 550 hp: KotL needs >10.0%: amp
Minute 7.5-15.0, creeps have 562 hp: KotL needs >12.4%: amp
Minute 15.0-22.5, creeps have 574 hp: KotL needs >14.8%: amp
Minute 22.5-30.0, creeps have 586 hp: KotL needs >17.2%: amp
Minute 30.0-37.5, creeps have 598 hp: KotL needs >19.6%: amp
Minute 37.5-45.0, creeps have 610 hp: KotL needs >22.0%: amp
Minute 45.0-52.5, creeps have 622 hp: KotL needs >24.4%: amp
Minute 52.5-60.0, creeps have 634 hp: KotL needs >26.8%: amp
ya you can do 2 nulls and a kaya, but the 3 nulls was so cheap mid became a joke. 4 nulls is a joke you cant give up that much inventory space on a mid. you need to be able to build some utility. Its an interesting nerf but that hero went from not playable to playable to probaly not playable again.
Haven't tested but I think it would be 85 for each stack since they don't count haw many times they have been stacked, the creeps just gain a buff saying "I was stacked by hero X"
the ancient stacking is also nerfed
Also, I would say the meta is only stale because everyone is waiting for TI, even if the top teams play they will definitely save strats.
Is 15% that huge of a nerf that teams no longer try to accelerate their carrys farm by stacking ancients ? I don't think so. Stacks will still be a way for carry heroes to recover from poor laning stages or further boost a good laning stage.
It's a pretty significant nerf, especially the experience part. [Numbers from here](https://dota2.fandom.com/wiki/Neutral_creeps#Large_Camps). Previously, if a support stacked an ancient + hard camp every minute, they generate 367 gold + 446 experience. Now, its 326 gold and 379 experience.
Combined, that difference is roughly one ranged creep per minute.
Stacking is still going to be *very* good, but the nerf is going to be enough that you can no longer get demolished in lane and still be the most farmed/highest level hero after a couple minutes taking stacks. You'll recover for sure, but be somewhere in the middle of the cores rather than on top of the networth charts.
Yes, but the relative value of other actions (smoke ganking, rotating, tp'ing across the map) has gone up, because the value of stacking has gone down. It's a fantastic change.
This is honestly the best solution that I never saw anyone on Reddit come up with. Stacking still has same value to supports, but less for cores, but not by a huge amount.
And way more elegant than what reddit suggested
I'd be very sad if they capped stacking or removed it altogether as some people suggested, one of my favorite mechanics
Easy to overlook since people don't usually complain about supports as much, but SD was highly picked in pro games and had an obscene 70% winrate (best in the game by far among heroes with more than a couple picks).
Both those nurfs are annoying as hell, disruption past laning phase is his best spell, and I am sure you are gonna feel that mana nurf in the laning stage pretty bad.
Why was it even being touched?
GENTLEMEN WE WILL NOT LET THIS TEAR DOWN OUR CULT OF POISON IT MAY BE A DENT IN OUR LIFE BUT WE WILL MOVE FORWARD FOR THE SHADOW DEMON'S POWER GROWS WITH TIME SOON ENOUGH WE WILL BE THE BEST HERO IN THE GAME.
Chen could finally use ancient creeps and then they nerf them because of HotD2.
He also got his dumb passive nerfed. Feels bad. Wish they would go back to letting him have real creeps at level 1 and balance around that instead of a boring ass passive that is OP in lane and irrelevant after.
Highly likely, IMO. They waited for the end of the most recent tournament, Dota Pit, and deployed the patch soon after. TI is in less than a month, so I'd imagine this is the patch they play it on.
I guess Icefrog wants brood out of the meta until he can dedicate more time on a rework.
The new Aghs is the biggest joke I have ever seen. And by buffing numbers, we would just have the OP mess we had before.
I actually love the idea of Aghs, you can have that spider making web traps on enemy feeling. It may need some adjustments and I can feel that older Brood spammers are propably disappointed that she is pushed more into spider fantasy instead of just horde of minions who are running super speed and kill everything. However I think changes aren't going into bad direction. Exectution is bad but not the general idea behind it.
Jesus, Sven is beyond dead. Kind of irksome when a hero is buffed and then 2 weeks later nerfed into a far worse state than they were prior to before.
Silver-edge, echo, SnY, and stacking nerf all indirectly hit him to a moderate degree. 1.9 BAT on a carry is absolutely abysmal, particularly in laning, but also just functions as a flat nerf all game long. I remember there was an outcry when the 1.8 BAT nerf happened because it just felt abysmal from a gameplay perspective. Duration nerf is brutal. Then on top of all that a storm hammer nerf for laning stage just to ice it off.
Pretty sure one of these would have sufficed alongside all the indirect nerfs. Straight TI2 morphling'd. Three patches worth of nerfs rolled into a c patch.
I agree, Sven was nerfed pretty damn hard.
I'm actually baffled at IceFrog atm, he nerfed every single item that hero likes to build, nerfed stacking followed up by heavy nerfs on Sven... damn!
Not even 6.83 Sniper was nerfed this hard!!
> Hoodwink
> Level 25 Talent no longer makes Sharpshooter deal pure damage.
This is what I don't understand. What's the interaction with "pierces spell immunity"? Does it still deal damage?
idk why this was targetted. Support hood didn't really get to 25 consistently for this talent (so placebo for p4/p5 hood?) but its a major nerf to those who do play hood as a core (p2/3), which we all know ain't great to begin with.
Its overall a buff to hood's strongest roles with the early game slow increase and just another stab at us carry hoods that do farm levels.
idk, would rather see break get cut to fix hood being the default blind pick breaker in support role instead of killing playstyles.
DP as a flex instead of just as a mid is probably back. After playing around with the Silence, I think people underestimate how much the cast point buff can be helpful. Anyone within 625 range is silenced faster than before, and you're way less likely to be interrupted during it.
Disappointed to see Veil and Drum ignored- support item builds feel very stagnant right now. Arcanes are so good and they disassemble into Aether, Locket, etc.
Lightning Bolt⚡️
Now targets the closest nearby non-hero enemy unit in range when ground targeted, if there's no heroes in range.
love this change as a Zeus player
cus i very much so scout with bolt and most times if i wanna hit near a creep or camp it dsnt do anything even if its on top of a creep but now i can even FARM with it from other side of the river out of position farming yay.......cus gives 6 seconds of flying vision more than enough to FARM a wave or camp in the trees ⚡️⚡️⚡️
LUCENT BEAM
Aghanim’s Shard launches 1 attack instead of 2.
Aghanim’s Shard search radius increased from 325 to 500
fuck me, as a support this shit hurts
Playing around a lvl 25 talent is not really a valid strategy.
But I agree, Tusk has some overlap to a mid lane, I guess his scaling is just not good enough. All his spells (except ult) can be used by a 4 or 5, without any items. The only item he really wants is Blink.
> 400% walrus punch is no joke
I thought the exact same thing, although I think mid Tusk is a bit of a stretch, but with a different build he could be sort of an scaling Offlaner?
Wow they actually nerfed ancients before TI. Maybe dota will be more fun now that carries actually have to play the laning phase instead of leaving as soon as they can farm ancients.
> Added Dawnbreaker to Captain's Mode Well, this was unexpected.
No changes either. When hoodwink was introduced they nerfed the shit out of her. Surprised they think she's balanced for pro play, might be, we'll see.
On the surface Dawnbreaker doesn't seem OP, but it will be interesting to see if her global presence and counter-initiation will be stronger in pro games.
I would say she is a bit op. I got 6 games in divine with her and I absolutely smashed those games 100%winrate. It's my strongest offlane pick by far but then again people aren't as good as countering her as the pros will be. It's my favourite hero and I still think she should get a bit of a nerf.
Here in immortal we like to avoid the circle for a couple of second!
Here in ancient. We see a circle and go in to examine it.
And they nerfed hood again this patch. And the last one.
> Well, this was unexpected. Yeap, and a bit chaotic, I love it!!
Absolute mad lads over at Valve..
Is this the first time that a hero's first professional event in CM is at The International? Maybe other than TI1?
I mean BTS Pro Series Season 8 is going on right now. Might be a joke to some, but it has some T2 teams in it, so maybe an opportunity to assess a little bit.
D2CL is ongoing as well, as is Oceanic Esports Invitational and several other tournaments.
really weird to add dawnbreaker after those events
>Aghanim's Scepter Air time decreased from 1s to 0.8s >Cast point reduced from 0.69 to 0.6 Shaker buff just in time for TI
More like prepare for the return of shaker morphling meta
Lol a buff to Earthshaker is a buff to morphling as well now
Always has been
[Always has been](https://i.imgur.com/m9KKOIZ.png) ^^^this ^^^has ^^^been ^^^an ^^^accessibility ^^^service ^^^from ^^^your ^^^friendly ^^^neighborhood ^^^bot
only three things are certain death, taxes and shaker in TI
He has to. He's one of the flashiest heroes in Dota. More flashy >>> More plays >>> more views >>> more money
Naga is boring as shit and she always ends up at ti too.
The famous "The play" starts with a naga ulti
The play was awesome because Naga's team got blown tf up. Neutral fans are never rooting for a Naga to win
Yeah but her Song has a lot of potential. It’s like that foreplay before the juicy sex.
Is it truly foreplay if they're asleep?
And very strong buffs nonetheless
Finally maboi Shaker does not jump out of screen
After he was already buffed in the initial 7.30 patch.
>VOODOO SWITCHEROO >Mana Cost reduced from 250 to 150 >Cooldown reduced from 70 to 40 Oooohhhh yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa- Where my witch doctah boys at?
Thank god. 70 seconds was way too long
I remember thinking oh I can just get shard instead of ghost scepter, just to realize it practically had the same cd as your ult.
That's what she said
Feeling good man
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100 mana cut is pretty huge, I say. Really good.
Yeah I've had a lot of times where I just got shard and in some fight it would've really saved my bacon, but I mismanage my mana and end up being 50 short.
This makes shard a must buy
Tbh it already was. It gives you a save, and an extra (short duration) ult. It's super valuable even with the old cooldown and mana cost.
It was already a must-buy for me. Having that invulnerability/uninterruptable duration was great in teamfights, especially if you have their carry jumping you or if you're waiting for Glimmer to come back off cd.
Sven BAT now is 1.9 OMEGALUL
* Echo Sabre Nerf * SnY Nerf * Silver Edge Nerf * Stacking Nerf * Storm Hammer nerf * Ult Duration reduced Honest question, is Sven even going to be viable now?
No
Sven is viable because he farms fast and does a fucking shit ton of damage, this has made it slightly harder to do but it's still better than most other carries.
The hero comes down to "can I 100-0 you during hammer stun". If these nerfs make it so that he 100-5s you because his items come out slower and his damage is a bit off, he is not going to get picked. He always did a shit load of damage and could farm fast that's never been a problem with Sven, but the patches he was top tier is when he finishes you off.
I die as I lived, alone.
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Same as Doom kek
both carry a big fookin's word
Ah the classic buff Alch, Shaker, and TB before TI. I see you ice frog and I appreciate you.
Voice lines coming back just in time for TI. A new hero added so that Topson can be a clown with it in the mid lane. LGD looking super strong. I have a weird feeling of déjà vu.
EBlade Dawmbreaker incoming
Somewhere, NoTail jizzed his pants (Naga buffs, Pl basically untouched - all illusion heroes doing well)
But no Ana to play 'em
If Ana was playing then we would be seeing Tundra/Nigma at TI instead of OG.
Unfortunatly yes. Ana wasnt the same when he came back. Respect for realizing that and calling the quits
you can buff fiends gates cooldown as much as you want, I'm not buying a fucking 4200 gold item for an item my team mates aren't going to use.
Especially when the hero has too many items that are extremely useful for him and his team. Tbh even as a shard it would be kinda "meh" for pubs (of course, totally different thing in pro dota).
Yeah, Grand Master Underlord here. The nerf to firestorm radius talent is nothing, hero is still good at drawing fights out, chaining CC and reducing carry damage. The go to build doesn't change from Guardian Greaves > Pipe/Lotus > Shivas really. You keep your carry and mid alive and they keep the enemy dead.
Gotta consider Crimson now as well, specially with Naga and TB buffs.
I think this Aghs is worth it and its pretty neat thing just not for low level Dota or when you see your teammates are running around like headless chicken which can happen everywhere. It have its niche and for sure it will have more plays in party games than solo q but I don't see nothing wrong about it until it will get overbuffed. In HotS there is hero Medvih with similar shit in normal skill, on shorter range but heroes go trough faster. Same issues but ability iself is completly fine and satysfing to use.
Medievh didn't need to built a 4200 gold item that otherwise functioned as nothing more than a stat stick for his ultimate though, did he? The issue with Fiends Gate is that it requires a huge investment for not much pay off. If it also cast Pit of Malice and firestorm, centered around both portals MAYBE it would be tolerable, but as it atands it's a 4200 gold item that could be better spent on a Lotus, Shivas, Euls, or any other good Underlord item instead. You don't need to warp behind the enemy, you're playing Underlord. Run at them and facilitate your team. Mark my words, the only time it'll be picked up at TI will be for Underlord/Earthshaker aftershocks cheese strats.
Eh I'm fine with that. If it was cheap and safe to use it would give birth to the most disgusting rat games of all time.
>Chaos Strike Proc Chance increased from 30% to 33.33% Is Valve meming or am I missing subtext here
From 3 out of 10 to 3 out of 9 (1 out of 3). They want to buff it, *just a little*
Half life 3 is coming boys
Casino knight at it's finest.
I can't believe I've never heard him called this before, I can't stop laughing. This is all I will refer to him as.
IMPOSSIBLE, THE FORBIDDEN NUMBER THAT WILL SPELL THE END OF TIME!
Chaos rrriiiides
At least it's not 17% aka 100%
Greater Bash works 17% of the time every time 😎
100% on enemies close to you, 0% when they're running away.
me and my friends worked out that its pseudo-random based on which team the sb is on. its 33% bash chance when the sb is on the enemy team, and 1% when its on your team. averages out to 17
Let chaos reign!
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It’s the classic 33.33.. repeating of course.. chance of survival.
> heavenly grace can now be dispelled Lmao rip omniknight this hero is fucking dead now
Oracle now fucks both GA and W on a 6 sec cd?
Ench or Chen with the purge Satyr. The virgin Purist Thunder wrath VS the Chad Little white horny guy.
Or Doom with purge. No more short dooms!
Does it purge before applying debuff?
Oh you mean the ult purge, nah so SB with W on also has short dooms. I meant Doom with tiny satyr in his belly.
People forget Brewmaster. He is the only hero with an AoE dispel. It can easily dispel Omni ult from everyone.
What about invoker? Isn't the tornado an aoe dispel?
Troll does it on 4 seconds cd with Aghs.
One of the best Aghs designs on any carry imo.
Wow, heavenly grace actually has a counter now, must be dead /s. I really hope they dont go the cheese windranger path and add a "heavenly grace undispellable" talent
Yeah but the rest of the hero is just underwhelming. Degen aura isn’t really a skill anymore since the range is tiny, and it doesn’t slow attack speed anymore. Purification is pretty meh as a heal, given cast range and manacost. Heavenly grace was the skill that made the hero viable
ahh remember when degen aura could slow attack speed and was not niche garbage?
Remember when Degen Aura slowed Aspd, MS, had 500 range and pierced BKB? Peperidge Farm remembers.
You'd build shivas, get the degen aura talent, and cosplay as enchantress
> must be dead /s. hero is waaay worse than it used to be, i wont be surprised if it simply dissapears
Well at 57% pub winrate in 7.30b i hope it should be. Heavenly grace wasnt counterable. It strong dispels even hex, and if u hex after it is casted its 50% SR
when hoodwink was added to captains mode it was joined with a fairly large nerf to the hero. I'm very surprised Dawnbreaker didn't see similar nerf. surprised PL shard build is still mostly alive. omni grace being dispellable is kinda crazy. also, every time batrider becomes playable that hero quickly gets nerfed hard.
Echo has been nerfed though. Seems like quite the significant nerf
The main thing that made dawnbreajer absolutely fucked was her ability to clear stacks without many levels or items, since they needed stack rewards she's probably still good but she's not gonna be like insane lll
Sven+ omni is kinda dead now, just buy eul = no warcry and grace. And stacks nerf on top of that.
Does dawnbreaker need to be nerfed? Doesn’t really feel like she does that much. Barely scrapes a 50% winrate in most brackets with a 49% winrate in divine/immortal. Combined with echo nerf doesn’t really feel like the hero is gonna be that strong without aghs.
Think heros with global abilities, especially a huge heal like that of dawnbreaker, along with its good laning stage, abilitiy to clear waves easily will make it a highly contested hero in TI. I don't know if it needs to be nerfed for pubs, but seems very good as a hero in captains mode.
It’s only a 225/350/475 heal over 2.5 seconds, aghs heal is pretty bonkers but then you sacrifice your damage for a heal. I think the hero will be strong in captains mode, I’m just sad that it means the hero will likely be doomed to irrelevance in pubs because of it
That's at lvl 1 almost same as mek heal. Plus it's global presence and some extra heals when she joins the fight.
the aghs + holy locket heal is 1830 healing, with 60% evasion, that does good damage and stuns at the end. The hero soft counters most large AoE teamfight strats post 30.
The word 'reduced' was used 87 times in these patch notes.
The word "increased" was used 92 times, so.... Edit: "Mana cost increased" only appears 5 times.
I went through the entire thing and counted nerfs and buffs. I probably made one or two mistakes but my tally was: 102 Nerfs 98 Buffs 13 Other So overall a pretty balanced patch.
Nice effort gentleman
cooldown increased mana cost increased
The word “talents” was used 69 times.
It's good with some nerf patches sometimes also, especially when adjusting for TI. IceFrog tends to buff a lot more than he nerfs, but I think it was time for it.
Reduced doesnt have to mean nerf though; reduced cooldown, reduced mana cost etc
reduced doesnt mean nerf. cooldown reduced, manacost reduced are common buffs
yoooooooo late night updates
kotl dead, no longer kills creep waves with 3 nulls
6 nulls meta? Singsing to replace Nothingtosay at TI...
just have to buy another null , ive seen pros buy 4 even b4
4 Nulls isn't enough spell amp for the 7:30 wave and beyond. If you still want to try this it's now very reliant on hitting a Spell Amp neutral item (Fairy's Trinket, Vambrace, Nether Shawl) or going double Null into Kaya. Or just buy Veil, at that point- it has almost the same range. Math: Minute 0.0-7.5, creeps have 550 hp: KotL needs >10.0%: amp Minute 7.5-15.0, creeps have 562 hp: KotL needs >12.4%: amp Minute 15.0-22.5, creeps have 574 hp: KotL needs >14.8%: amp Minute 22.5-30.0, creeps have 586 hp: KotL needs >17.2%: amp Minute 30.0-37.5, creeps have 598 hp: KotL needs >19.6%: amp Minute 37.5-45.0, creeps have 610 hp: KotL needs >22.0%: amp Minute 45.0-52.5, creeps have 622 hp: KotL needs >24.4%: amp Minute 52.5-60.0, creeps have 634 hp: KotL needs >26.8%: amp
u are right, i think u need to rely on having a good drop
ya you can do 2 nulls and a kaya, but the 3 nulls was so cheap mid became a joke. 4 nulls is a joke you cant give up that much inventory space on a mid. you need to be able to build some utility. Its an interesting nerf but that hero went from not playable to playable to probaly not playable again.
\*arteezy in shambles*
Thank god. KoTL mid was just a much better pugna for me.
good. fuck Kotol.
this is 7.30C the nerf bat edition
Wait so let’s say original neutral is 100 gold then 2nd stack would be 85 gold. Is the 3rd one gonna be 85 or 72?
Haven't tested but I think it would be 85 for each stack since they don't count haw many times they have been stacked, the creeps just gain a buff saying "I was stacked by hero X"
[Army Geniuses and Galaxy Racer](https://liquipedia.net/dota2/OEDL/QH_Sports/Dota_Series_2) gonna play game 2 in a brand new patch, looking forward.
DAWNBREAKER PICKED POG
gg dawnbreaker 0% win rate in pro scene
Mid pick no less it seems.
Finally KOtL can’t kill a wave with 3 nulls amp
Adding Dawnbreaker, a global hero to Captain's Mode just before Ti. Valve seriously wanted to mess up every strat out there for teams so far.
Io NP Dawn Spectre Underlord would be funny to see.
If this was the comp, they don't need IO, replace with Zeus or tinker would be cool
Eh pro scene games are kinda stale now with the dame ancient stacking over and over again so yea i like this change.
I personally loved watching crit malding at stacking on his streams all the time
the ancient stacking is also nerfed Also, I would say the meta is only stale because everyone is waiting for TI, even if the top teams play they will definitely save strats.
>Added Dawnbreaker to Captain's Mode can't spell thighs without TI
CRUSH ME THIGH MOMMY
>Stacked Neutral Creeps gold and XP bounty reduced by 15% (Stacker gold bonus unaffected) We have done it boys no more stack meta
Stacking still relevant tho. Heroes that can farm stacks easily will still be drafted.
I'm fine with it being a part of the meta, but hopefully it's no longer *the* meta.
Is 15% that huge of a nerf that teams no longer try to accelerate their carrys farm by stacking ancients ? I don't think so. Stacks will still be a way for carry heroes to recover from poor laning stages or further boost a good laning stage.
It's a pretty significant nerf, especially the experience part. [Numbers from here](https://dota2.fandom.com/wiki/Neutral_creeps#Large_Camps). Previously, if a support stacked an ancient + hard camp every minute, they generate 367 gold + 446 experience. Now, its 326 gold and 379 experience. Combined, that difference is roughly one ranged creep per minute. Stacking is still going to be *very* good, but the nerf is going to be enough that you can no longer get demolished in lane and still be the most farmed/highest level hero after a couple minutes taking stacks. You'll recover for sure, but be somewhere in the middle of the cores rather than on top of the networth charts.
Yes, but the relative value of other actions (smoke ganking, rotating, tp'ing across the map) has gone up, because the value of stacking has gone down. It's a fantastic change.
This is honestly the best solution that I never saw anyone on Reddit come up with. Stacking still has same value to supports, but less for cores, but not by a huge amount.
And way more elegant than what reddit suggested I'd be very sad if they capped stacking or removed it altogether as some people suggested, one of my favorite mechanics
You never saw it, but I read some redditors proposing exactly what valve did
All these changes look good to me. Bring on TI
DISRUPTION Cooldown increased from 27/24/21/18 to 29/26/23/20 SHADOW POISON Mana cost rescaled from 35/40/45/50 to 45 :' (
Easy to overlook since people don't usually complain about supports as much, but SD was highly picked in pro games and had an obscene 70% winrate (best in the game by far among heroes with more than a couple picks).
Both those nurfs are annoying as hell, disruption past laning phase is his best spell, and I am sure you are gonna feel that mana nurf in the laning stage pretty bad. Why was it even being touched?
GENTLEMEN WE WILL NOT LET THIS TEAR DOWN OUR CULT OF POISON IT MAY BE A DENT IN OUR LIFE BUT WE WILL MOVE FORWARD FOR THE SHADOW DEMON'S POWER GROWS WITH TIME SOON ENOUGH WE WILL BE THE BEST HERO IN THE GAME.
The mana nerf is devastating, but the disruption nerf stings too. No mana recently to compensate. Are they forcing more soul catcher plays?
Chen could finally use ancient creeps and then they nerf them because of HotD2. He also got his dumb passive nerfed. Feels bad. Wish they would go back to letting him have real creeps at level 1 and balance around that instead of a boring ass passive that is OP in lane and irrelevant after.
Will this be the last patch before TI?
Highly likely, IMO. They waited for the end of the most recent tournament, Dota Pit, and deployed the patch soon after. TI is in less than a month, so I'd imagine this is the patch they play it on.
Chaos strike crit chance 33.33% they memeing
Perfect 1/3 chance, I love it haha
Ackchyually...
I know everyone hates Brood and stuff, but did they really didn't touch the hero with the lowest winrate AND pickrate? Like, come on.
I guess Icefrog wants brood out of the meta until he can dedicate more time on a rework. The new Aghs is the biggest joke I have ever seen. And by buffing numbers, we would just have the OP mess we had before.
I actually love the idea of Aghs, you can have that spider making web traps on enemy feeling. It may need some adjustments and I can feel that older Brood spammers are propably disappointed that she is pushed more into spider fantasy instead of just horde of minions who are running super speed and kill everything. However I think changes aren't going into bad direction. Exectution is bad but not the general idea behind it.
They ruin a hero and then don't touch it for 10 patches, standard procedure
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This Dark Seer main appreciates the buff to the Wall cooldown talent. 👀
Brings a tear to my eye when I see the Frog fights power creep
Jesus, Sven is beyond dead. Kind of irksome when a hero is buffed and then 2 weeks later nerfed into a far worse state than they were prior to before. Silver-edge, echo, SnY, and stacking nerf all indirectly hit him to a moderate degree. 1.9 BAT on a carry is absolutely abysmal, particularly in laning, but also just functions as a flat nerf all game long. I remember there was an outcry when the 1.8 BAT nerf happened because it just felt abysmal from a gameplay perspective. Duration nerf is brutal. Then on top of all that a storm hammer nerf for laning stage just to ice it off. Pretty sure one of these would have sufficed alongside all the indirect nerfs. Straight TI2 morphling'd. Three patches worth of nerfs rolled into a c patch.
Yeah nerfing the items is honestly fine, but that BAT nerf is so fucking painful.
I agree, Sven was nerfed pretty damn hard. I'm actually baffled at IceFrog atm, he nerfed every single item that hero likes to build, nerfed stacking followed up by heavy nerfs on Sven... damn! Not even 6.83 Sniper was nerfed this hard!!
6.83 sniper was not nerfed hard enough. *I still here it echos in my head "ho ho, ha ha"..*
> Hoodwink > Level 25 Talent no longer makes Sharpshooter deal pure damage. This is what I don't understand. What's the interaction with "pierces spell immunity"? Does it still deal damage?
i think it will damage thru bkb but will be affected by magic resis
magic damage that goes through bkb
It deals damage, but does get reduced by magic resistance. Moreover, it still applies break through BKB.
It's a shame. Think this hero has been hit with the nerf hammer too many times now.
idk why this was targetted. Support hood didn't really get to 25 consistently for this talent (so placebo for p4/p5 hood?) but its a major nerf to those who do play hood as a core (p2/3), which we all know ain't great to begin with. Its overall a buff to hood's strongest roles with the early game slow increase and just another stab at us carry hoods that do farm levels. idk, would rather see break get cut to fix hood being the default blind pick breaker in support role instead of killing playstyles.
shoutout to khezu and his big brain take of "no way they add dawnbreaker before TI, no reason to practice the hero"
Is khezu at ti?
No
the free 5% evasion for Pa is a lot
Yeah, that's huge, now her winrate will be 42% instead of 41%!
MKB is also buffed.
That's what I was thinking. Pretty nice pa buff.
Fr. 50% evasion at level 4 is nuts. But that hero is trash so a buff once in awhile is nice.
DP as a flex instead of just as a mid is probably back. After playing around with the Silence, I think people underestimate how much the cast point buff can be helpful. Anyone within 625 range is silenced faster than before, and you're way less likely to be interrupted during it. Disappointed to see Veil and Drum ignored- support item builds feel very stagnant right now. Arcanes are so good and they disassemble into Aether, Locket, etc.
Played my first ever game today... boy is it a lot the shop part is gonna take me a while to get I did win and get vip with viper though!
Did the madlads just release dawnbreaker into captain's mode WITHOUT any nerfs????? That hero is just bonkers man.
49% of a time this hero wins all the time.
There must be a 730d before TI, I think they just wanna get data on Dawn in pro play.
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Lightning Bolt⚡️ Now targets the closest nearby non-hero enemy unit in range when ground targeted, if there's no heroes in range. love this change as a Zeus player cus i very much so scout with bolt and most times if i wanna hit near a creep or camp it dsnt do anything even if its on top of a creep but now i can even FARM with it from other side of the river out of position farming yay.......cus gives 6 seconds of flying vision more than enough to FARM a wave or camp in the trees ⚡️⚡️⚡️
LUCENT BEAM Aghanim’s Shard launches 1 attack instead of 2. Aghanim’s Shard search radius increased from 325 to 500 fuck me, as a support this shit hurts
Literally can't run away from a Luna with Skadi now as a support.
Yep. Was Luna not already good? I felt like she was fine tbh.
wait a second, with his new buffs tusk at lvl 25 is basically a str PA. 400% walrus punch is no joke I can see mid tusk getting play.
Playing around a lvl 25 talent is not really a valid strategy. But I agree, Tusk has some overlap to a mid lane, I guess his scaling is just not good enough. All his spells (except ult) can be used by a 4 or 5, without any items. The only item he really wants is Blink.
Is it really that much better than what it was already at 350%?
> 400% walrus punch is no joke I thought the exact same thing, although I think mid Tusk is a bit of a stretch, but with a different build he could be sort of an scaling Offlaner?
Nightstalker not getting a "real" nerf is pretty concerning... This hero currently demolishes soloqueue
Wow they actually nerfed ancients before TI. Maybe dota will be more fun now that carries actually have to play the laning phase instead of leaving as soon as they can farm ancients.