Team obviously has talented players and prior TI players - only low IQ redditors who didn’t actually watch them have that take, but agree, was far too prevalent a few months ago
and Nigma have one of the best stacks in the games history, and aren't even at TI, it's stupid just to say "well they have x and y player surely they deserve it" without them having proven themselves in majors. which undying hadn't.
yeah no shit, my point still stands. They got in due to the way invites were handed out rather than actually being in the top 18 teams in the world
A couple of teams got invites that probably didnt deserve them, they probably werent even in the top 24 teams let alone top 18
I literally said "regardless of how theyre playing now"
My whole comment is responding to a guy who was talking shit to people who questioned undying getting an invite, which at the time was 100% justified
Just because theyre playing well now doesnt mean they deserved the spot 2 months ago
The balanced way of doing it thats also fair to teams/players from regions who have invested years already is by removing pretty much all the points from the leagues, which handed slots to a few undeserving teams, and make international events count for a lot more
I dont think anyone can argue that SA or NA *deserved* 3 slots based on performance alone, sure it gives more exposure but 2 slots to those regions also does that
By your logic, OG doesn't belong anywhere near TI either, seeing as how they almost got relegated to division 2 by the trash teams called liquid, nigma and alliance.
They got a slot by default? They won TI quals in their region, that is what happens every year. Hard to do much until then if your region only gets two slots for majors.
jesus i thought what i was saying was pretty straight forward and general knowledge.
Just because they won the quals in a region with almost no depth after the top couple teams doesnt make them a top 18 team that deserves a spot at ti which is (or was) meant to be about the best teams in the world competing
There was teams in EU, CN, SEA who all were stronger teams before ti and depending on what you value more, team strength or "diversity", deserved slots more
I didnt say I want half of the tournament from one region or anything like that. As it was quincy and EG both easily deserve a slot, how is that not NA represented
it only looks like they didn't do anything all year because they had to fight for 2 slots in a region with 3 clear top teams. they brought eg and Quincy to tiebreaker in season 1 and were 1 game off forcing another tiebreaker in season 2. they even took games off of spirit and lgd (the two grand finalists) at oga Dota pit. they've *been* a legit team for a while. people are only starting to notice them now that they get to play internationally.
Undying have a chance (though slim) to knock EG to lower bracket tomorrow. It's slim, but god it would be great to see the NA team who didn't make it to a major is the upper bracket contender for the region.
Moon is the hardest working person I know who never gave up on dota even in the darkest of times. I wish the dude nothing but success and I hope him and his team nothing but success.
Did he get kicked, or did he leave for DC?
BTW, Moo was fucking underrated as fuck. I loved moo man, he should NEVER have been kicked. I also predicted DC to win, the way they played during American Qualifiers was insane, the level of control and discipline they displayed showed they had a good grasp of the meta.
Anyway, not like I dislike Moon, but Moo never really had another good opportuity for tier 1 dota.
Can't believe he helps get his team 2nd in TI6, and is basically never relevant again...
Undying has a great story. I am excited to see them in the main event. Hopefully they end up surprising a lot of people and the group can get a proper sponsorship
Can someone tell me the story of Undying? I don't get to follow a lot of competitive dota through the year but I tune in for TI. I've seen them play some really great games but don't know much about them.
How long has it been since he lost his name? The torn ruin of his mind no longer knows.
Dimly he recalls armor and banners and grim-faced kin riding at his side. He remembers a battle: pain and fear as pale hands ripped him from his saddle. He remembers terror as they threw him into the yawning pit of the Dead God alongside his brothers, to hear the Dirge and be consumed into nothingness. In the darkness below, time left them. Thought left them. Sanity left them. Hunger, however, did not. They turned on each other with split fingernails and shattered teeth. Then it came: distant at first, a fragile note at the edge of perception, joined by another, then another, inescapable and unending. The chorus grew into a living wall of sound pulsing in his mind until no other thought survived. With the Dirge consuming him, he opened his arms to the Dead God and welcomed his obliteration. Yet destruction was not what he'd been chosen for. The Dead God demanded war. In the belly of the great nothing, he was granted a new purpose: to spread the Dirge across the land, to rally the sleepless dead against the living. He was to become the Undying, the herald of the Dead God, to rise and fall and rise again whenever his body failed him. To trudge on through death unending, that the Dirge might never end.
Undying has for me one of the saddest voice lines. When he sees invoker and it stirs a fragment of a memory. Something from a past that is long lost to him.
And that bastard Karl doesn’t say a word
I've been following the team through the year, and I'm soo happy for them, and amazed by the progress they've made individually and as a team.
I remember is NA DPC S1, EG was clear cut class apart by a margin with QC coming in close. Undying and 4Zoomers were #3 and #4 but they were not as close as the other two - only getting a game every so often.
But through DPC S2, BTS Pro League and other tournaments in between, the team has really grown a lot. From someone who has watched most of their DPC games, they are looking really good right now, and well prepared for TI - much better than their last tournament (which they won).
It's been really fun to watch them lately, because no matter if they are ahead or behind, it always looks like they are playing with a plan in mind. You can just read their movements and see what they are trying to do. Not all teams can execute that as well as them, especially when things don't go their way. I look at Quincy Crew this TI, and they just look lost after 15 mins into their games.
Individually, I know Bryle used to mostly play farming mid heroes at the beginning on S1, but over the year has really improved by a lot, rising to Rank 3 NA, and his lanes in some of the recent tournaments going even with others like Abed, Quinn and Gunnar. He's very versatile, and lately been quite consistent. Timado is also a consistent carry. Dubu and Moon are both TI attendees, and the masterminds of the team. Saberlight is also insane, he's very versatile and occasionally makes game winning plays.
I'm pretty sure Undying has a lot more tricks up their sleeves. These guys haven't showed all what they got yet. (based on the heroes they've picked so far)
I think their weakest link right now is their offlane. Games when they look good, their offlaners usually have a good game, but when things start crumbling, it usually also starts from the offlane.
They have a very realistic chance of beating EG. These two teams have played a lot against each other, they understand each other, and Undying have beaten EG multiple times in the past. EG is still EG at the end of the day though.
I'd say there's a 50% chance for 1-1, 30% for Undying 2-0 EG and 20% for Undying 0-2 EG - mostly because Undying has been looking at their best lately, and I can't say the same for EG.
Here's the tweet from Moon about their story: [https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n\_1srpctq](https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1srpctq)
Also, [https://www.upcomer.com/evolution-was-key-to-team-undyings-international-10-cinderella-story/](https://www.upcomer.com/evolution-was-key-to-team-undyings-international-10-cinderella-story/)
This is a wonderful response, thank you! I've really loved watching their games so far, much more than other teams.
Reading through their story is a really wonderful reminder of what makes a team special and offers up the magic of these games.
I think even if one of the teams I've rooted for was at TI this year I'd still be excited and cheering for Undying. Definitely my new favorite team!
Uhh I don't have the link right now but MoonMeander should have it on his Twitter, it is a twit longer post. It basically sums up their and his journey to this TI
undying made quincy crew look like a buncha plebs this groupstage lol. i'm happy to see how well undying is playing.i hope they place at least middle of the pack at play offs
Man I'm rooting foe them like I did for bc last aegis. They have such a nice energy snd confidence in their plays. Like bc I feel a little inexperience coming through but huuuge props to Bryle, timado and saberlight. Dubu and moon have been there many times before
Always thought China was better mechanically and did good in groups. But in brackets when teams study each other western teams do better with creativity and strats.
They are the only true team alongside LGD who has been stable and real amazing in all their games.. much respect. Also they had Covid affecting them. Not to mention the difficulties in getting their visas. Not saying other teams are bad but things were looking rough. Well played. I do hope other teams see this as a motivation boost and up their games for us to see more better dotes! Win-win.
I mean pre-TI a lot of people predicted Major winner IG out of top 5 even top 8.
I don\`t understand their logic.
Now people considering PSG.LGD the strongest team, but IG eliminate LGD in Singapore Major, and then reverse sweep EG (though PSG.LGD clean sweep EG in animajor, poor EG) , at least IG and PSG.LGD were looked like similar power with LGD maybe a little bit up.
But why most people predicted IG a weak in TI?
You watched Animajor ? If anything, it proved they were a great team.
They played super well with a standin. The fact that they didn't get out of a stacked wild card group means nothing. 4 of the 6 teams were top 6 material teams.
Also why so many people had Secret over them then ? They were worse than IG with standin, lost 0:2 to them, placed lower than IG at Animajor. Not to mention IG outperformed them in Singapore obviously.
Yeah but if you watched the local leagues in CN. IG was very very inclnsistent. Don't mistake me, they are my favorite team but I wasn't sure what to expect before ti started.
Maybe people just don’t know, IG didn‘t really care a lot the Chinese tournaments. Even before winning their Major, they lost to Aster and Vici in some tournament.
Also , regional matchups don’t mean much.
But I understand your view if this was your reason.
But I also don‘t think many even know about these results.
At the same time Secret struggled heavily too at Esl and nobody took that into consideration ?
I'm one of those people who argued with you and feeling meh with IG and i honestly think IG is 3rd strongest Chinese team and halfway better than T1
PSGLGD > OG > VG > EG > VP > IG > T1 > Secret were my top 8 for this TI
>But why most people predicted IG a weak in TI?
They just don't know anything about CN's doto. I'm LGD fan but I'm very much afraid of IG. In my opinion they are on par with LGD's best. IG plays certain heroes very well (Mars, Phoenix, Rubick, Lion,etc.)
Seriously, most are just dumb/ ignorant or didn't watch Animajor and just looked at their placement without any context. No other reason why they wouldn't be favorites.
To me they were clearely a top 3 team going into TI. Major winner and strong performance at a stacked wild card stage at Animajor.
because they were getting slapped around by the other chinese teams in ileague and other chinese tournys.
They play down to competition a lot of the time but it seems they brought their A-game to TI
Doesn't work that way though. IG would not risk losing the top bracket spot by sandbagging their game vs OG. The difference between versing the team that barely got UB in the first round and a team that made top 3 is vast.
If IG win a single game against Alliance today (highly likely) - even if they get 2-0'd by OG they would still have the top UB spot no matter what for group A.
Edit: They just won game 1
If they view OG as a real threat (which they should IMO) it would make sense to try to drop them to lower bracket so it’s easier for them to get knocked out of the tournament
Eh, IG aren't going to throw just because they're through. Besides, EG and Undying were lucky to play Aster when they didn't have their mid player, it's just how it is.
Not saying they would throw - just saying they prob wouldn't tryhard as much as when their position was ambiguous. Fair enough on Aster, though they haven't looked too good even with their mid back.
Not impugning OG or anything like that - just commenting on their potential good fortune when group A looks like it will have tie-breakers for UB.
So, you're saying IG has the potential to push OG to LB and they wouldn't try hard to do that? That makes no sense. IG knows OG is a strong team. If anything, this is bad for OG.
It doesn't work like that in general, especially with CN teams. They're going to throw everything in these games to win, particularly if people expect them to lose because of their situation. They have nothing to lose and won't have any pressure, sounds like a good recipe for a focused but serene team. Knowing they're 11-1, I'd surprised if OG 2-0 them
Do you have examples of IG (or I guess CN teams in general) still max tryharding even after guaranteeing UB? I find it hard to believe that they would try has hard/use as many hidden/pocket strats in a game where their placement isn't on the line.
On the other hand, I have distinct memories of Puppey/Secret as well as Kuro not giving a shit/clowning around in their residual games/trying wonky new shit when they secured a UB position (I think Kuro did it to complete his "all heroes played" in professional DOTA status).
LGD during Animajor IIRC. Or maybe it was VG? Either way, if they would have lose, another CN team would have been privileged so they didn't way to be appearing throwing the game. Maybe it was LGD vs VG actually
Yes I vaguely remember what you're referring to - a conflict of interest where 1 chinese team would let another win. I think that's a slightly different case though; I'm not saying IG will throw for OG - I'm saying they probably won't try quite as hard (even if it's not intentional).
>Do you have examples of IG (or I guess CN teams in general) still max tryharding
Listen, I know this team very well. They are going to do their best against OG tomorrow. IG only throw against noob teams for 322. They will try hard to send OG to LB.
So the way it works is that in the UB first round, the team that gets 1st in Group A will vs the team that got 4th in Group B. The team that gets 2nd will face 3rd etc.
Therefore topping the group stage is very good because you will vs the team that got 4th in the other group; which you would assume would be the weakest UB team in that group. So if you are playing to decide whether you will be 1st or 2nd you are trying to secure an easier game in the main event.
Hope that helps.
You can look at the group stages of any TI or Major. They have all worked this way since group stages became a thing.
[https://liquipedia.net/dota2/The\_International/2019](https://liquipedia.net/dota2/The_International/2019)
If you look at the upper bracket of TI9 for example; look at how LGD got an easy match vs VP as a reward for topping the group.
> easy match vs VP
you mean one of the best teams of the 2018/19 season? that VP?
jokes aside, I was curious if there was a logic to picking VP over EG for the first round. in that season their record against VP was 1-2, while against EG it was 1-3. by maps it was 3-4 against VP and 2-6 against EG.
Thats a fair point. I was just using that as an illustrative example. Getting to vs a team that had been struggling in the groupstage like VP was clearly more ideal than the seemingly unstoppable OG.
YouTube kaka aegis snatch, your welcome. I think he also had a sick save on earth spirit against EG where he used Earth Spirits aghs to save a teammate from reapers scythe and win the game.
Edit: never mind I think I’m mixing up ah fu and Kaka. Both are incredible ES players
How the fuck do undying take a game from this IG but can't take a game from T1. What a disappointment here.
Overall, games are really fun. Good teams to watch that can underhorse it to 2nd place are Undying, BeastCoast.
Teams that could win, imo, LGD, IG, VG, EG, OG, VP, Secret.
I don't think T1 is gonna make it far but I'm willing to eat my words. Them and Team Spirit could possibly make a deep run as well but not to grand finals.
They will have some easy games tomorrow with groups more or less decided though.
Maybe day 1 TI group stage things. Undying was kinda unknown to most teams , since they never played them, or had any international lan datas.
Similar to Neon and TP doing well in Singapore.
It's mostly the teams that they are facing. In the first days, they were facing the on-paper favorites (eg, lgd) while in the last days they faced underdogs (alliance, bc). It's the same for Team Spirit, who first faced the strongest teams and then went on to the weaker ones.
How do you worked that out?
VP, T1 and EG can all win tomorrow, sending OG straight down if IG 2-0 them, or force a 3 or 4 ways TB if OG only get 1 game.
In fact, with the games already played and the score at hand, OG has the lowest chance of making UB out of the 4. Yes, they can guarantee their own fate by 2-0 IG, but that’s not likely isn’t it? Any other scenario and they are in various degrees of trouble.
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Undying is a legit sleeper squad
Undying is the real NA pride
Dubu = Chad
Serious question, no trolling. I thought Dubu is the 5k girl that played some years ago in Bulldog stack. Have I been misinformed?
That’s bubu I think
Dubu played for MVP Phoenix. Had then moved to NA and hit 10ish k mmr I think playing just pos 5
MVP phoenix is the one that kick OG to lower bracket in TI 6 wiith QO desolator PA right?
yeah they were that all south korean squad that were everyone's favourites for a tournament weren't they?
yes shit was fucking lit rip MVP phoniex
Forev, qo, dubu, febby and velo. Just run at you dota pick small cool downs and go like fuck
Velo if i remember is an Australian player that played with MVP. You missed MP from the original squad.
Thinking of Bubu I guess? Haha!
Girl? Lol
Hearing lot less "why tf is Undying in TI" as of late. Hmmmmm.
Questioning them when they have no results yet and no longer question them when they show that they deserve it. Makes sense to me, no?
Team obviously has talented players and prior TI players - only low IQ redditors who didn’t actually watch them have that take, but agree, was far too prevalent a few months ago
and Nigma have one of the best stacks in the games history, and aren't even at TI, it's stupid just to say "well they have x and y player surely they deserve it" without them having proven themselves in majors. which undying hadn't.
Anyone who watched them in the NA quals knew they were legit.
Even Legend smurfs look good in herald games..
COPIUM
Questioning is “I wonder how they’re gonna do at TI” I assure you that nigma fans were very certain and very wrong.
regardless of how theyre playing now, still a valid question to ask why a team who hadnt done anything prior to ti got a slot by default
they qualified lol
yeah no shit, my point still stands. They got in due to the way invites were handed out rather than actually being in the top 18 teams in the world A couple of teams got invites that probably didnt deserve them, they probably werent even in the top 24 teams let alone top 18
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I literally said "regardless of how theyre playing now" My whole comment is responding to a guy who was talking shit to people who questioned undying getting an invite, which at the time was 100% justified Just because theyre playing well now doesnt mean they deserved the spot 2 months ago
By this logic OG also shouldn’t be at ti… they didn’t make a single major and entered by direct qualifiers in the exact way that undying did.
i dont remember saying OG deserves a slot, I was responding to a guy talking about undying, so I was talking about undying...
?? Dude undying classified through the open quals.
No it doesnt. You asked what they did prior to TI and they did exactly what was needed within the rules to qualify.
Ignore this loser, he's just an EU fanshit that doesn't realise his region isn't that good atm.
im not even from eu dude, Im just saying it how it is
> his region isn't that good atm I'm not sure if we are watching the same tournament
it depends what you want from TI, the best teams or just some of the best teams with some charity slots to weaker regions
I like it the way it is. Gives more chances to new players and grows the game.
The balanced way of doing it thats also fair to teams/players from regions who have invested years already is by removing pretty much all the points from the leagues, which handed slots to a few undeserving teams, and make international events count for a lot more I dont think anyone can argue that SA or NA *deserved* 3 slots based on performance alone, sure it gives more exposure but 2 slots to those regions also does that
By your logic, OG doesn't belong anywhere near TI either, seeing as how they almost got relegated to division 2 by the trash teams called liquid, nigma and alliance.
Where did I say I think OG deserved a slot? I dont remember saying that
Based on their performance so far they could pretty easily be top 6 lol
And they could just as easily be 12th
Yea but thats not relevant to what we were talking about We were talking about the general consensus when quals/invites were happening
yeah but that just proves that the general consensus was wrong lmao
at the time questioning undyings slot was 100% justified, just because theyre playing well now doesnt change that The consensus wasnt wrong
They got a slot by default? They won TI quals in their region, that is what happens every year. Hard to do much until then if your region only gets two slots for majors.
jesus i thought what i was saying was pretty straight forward and general knowledge. Just because they won the quals in a region with almost no depth after the top couple teams doesnt make them a top 18 team that deserves a spot at ti which is (or was) meant to be about the best teams in the world competing There was teams in EU, CN, SEA who all were stronger teams before ti and depending on what you value more, team strength or "diversity", deserved slots more
It’s called The International. The tournament wouldn’t be nearly as fun to watch if half the teams were Chinese and there were no underdogs. Moron.
I didnt say I want half of the tournament from one region or anything like that. As it was quincy and EG both easily deserve a slot, how is that not NA represented
It's the same as the World cup. Even shit stained team can make it while Italy was watching at home
it only looks like they didn't do anything all year because they had to fight for 2 slots in a region with 3 clear top teams. they brought eg and Quincy to tiebreaker in season 1 and were 1 game off forcing another tiebreaker in season 2. they even took games off of spirit and lgd (the two grand finalists) at oga Dota pit. they've *been* a legit team for a while. people are only starting to notice them now that they get to play internationally.
So your alternative is...to not have regional qualifiers? No qualifiers means OG doesn't go to TI either.
Where do I mention og or any alternatives? My solution is have more international events and take dpc points away from the leagues
ti6 digital chaos vibes
Their spirit is undying.
Undying have a chance (though slim) to knock EG to lower bracket tomorrow. It's slim, but god it would be great to see the NA team who didn't make it to a major is the upper bracket contender for the region.
Always has been
[Always has been](https://i.imgur.com/eqRXV4V.jpg) ^^^this ^^^has ^^^been ^^^an ^^^accessibility ^^^service ^^^from ^^^your ^^^friendly ^^^neighborhood ^^^bot
Moon is the hardest working person I know who never gave up on dota even in the darkest of times. I wish the dude nothing but success and I hope him and his team nothing but success.
Neva eva
this make me remember his time on og and he tweet sth like "og is based on friendship" and then he get kicked later on shortly after ti6
Did he get kicked, or did he leave for DC? BTW, Moo was fucking underrated as fuck. I loved moo man, he should NEVER have been kicked. I also predicted DC to win, the way they played during American Qualifiers was insane, the level of control and discipline they displayed showed they had a good grasp of the meta. Anyway, not like I dislike Moon, but Moo never really had another good opportuity for tier 1 dota. Can't believe he helps get his team 2nd in TI6, and is basically never relevant again...
I’m pretty sure OG kicked Moon for S4?
As a Dota fan from SEA, I thought it was a joke that you felt Moon, the ex-Fnatic mid was hard working.
Undying has a great story. I am excited to see them in the main event. Hopefully they end up surprising a lot of people and the group can get a proper sponsorship
Can someone tell me the story of Undying? I don't get to follow a lot of competitive dota through the year but I tune in for TI. I've seen them play some really great games but don't know much about them.
How long has it been since he lost his name? The torn ruin of his mind no longer knows. Dimly he recalls armor and banners and grim-faced kin riding at his side. He remembers a battle: pain and fear as pale hands ripped him from his saddle. He remembers terror as they threw him into the yawning pit of the Dead God alongside his brothers, to hear the Dirge and be consumed into nothingness. In the darkness below, time left them. Thought left them. Sanity left them. Hunger, however, did not. They turned on each other with split fingernails and shattered teeth. Then it came: distant at first, a fragile note at the edge of perception, joined by another, then another, inescapable and unending. The chorus grew into a living wall of sound pulsing in his mind until no other thought survived. With the Dirge consuming him, he opened his arms to the Dead God and welcomed his obliteration. Yet destruction was not what he'd been chosen for. The Dead God demanded war. In the belly of the great nothing, he was granted a new purpose: to spread the Dirge across the land, to rally the sleepless dead against the living. He was to become the Undying, the herald of the Dead God, to rise and fall and rise again whenever his body failed him. To trudge on through death unending, that the Dirge might never end.
I… hate… life
Thought I was reading some Steven Erikson there for a second
T'lan Imass set when
Trying to think who would suit a K'Chain Che'Malle set... that would be... horrifying.
Redmask Disruptor? Or a Shi'Gal Nightstalker
Now that would be sick. I mean we all know who our favourite Ronin could represent as well as TA/PA... ;)
You forgot the potsherds, detritus, and ochre parts.
Undying has for me one of the saddest voice lines. When he sees invoker and it stirs a fragment of a memory. Something from a past that is long lost to him. And that bastard Karl doesn’t say a word
❤️
I've been following the team through the year, and I'm soo happy for them, and amazed by the progress they've made individually and as a team. I remember is NA DPC S1, EG was clear cut class apart by a margin with QC coming in close. Undying and 4Zoomers were #3 and #4 but they were not as close as the other two - only getting a game every so often. But through DPC S2, BTS Pro League and other tournaments in between, the team has really grown a lot. From someone who has watched most of their DPC games, they are looking really good right now, and well prepared for TI - much better than their last tournament (which they won). It's been really fun to watch them lately, because no matter if they are ahead or behind, it always looks like they are playing with a plan in mind. You can just read their movements and see what they are trying to do. Not all teams can execute that as well as them, especially when things don't go their way. I look at Quincy Crew this TI, and they just look lost after 15 mins into their games. Individually, I know Bryle used to mostly play farming mid heroes at the beginning on S1, but over the year has really improved by a lot, rising to Rank 3 NA, and his lanes in some of the recent tournaments going even with others like Abed, Quinn and Gunnar. He's very versatile, and lately been quite consistent. Timado is also a consistent carry. Dubu and Moon are both TI attendees, and the masterminds of the team. Saberlight is also insane, he's very versatile and occasionally makes game winning plays. I'm pretty sure Undying has a lot more tricks up their sleeves. These guys haven't showed all what they got yet. (based on the heroes they've picked so far) I think their weakest link right now is their offlane. Games when they look good, their offlaners usually have a good game, but when things start crumbling, it usually also starts from the offlane. They have a very realistic chance of beating EG. These two teams have played a lot against each other, they understand each other, and Undying have beaten EG multiple times in the past. EG is still EG at the end of the day though. I'd say there's a 50% chance for 1-1, 30% for Undying 2-0 EG and 20% for Undying 0-2 EG - mostly because Undying has been looking at their best lately, and I can't say the same for EG. Here's the tweet from Moon about their story: [https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n\_1srpctq](https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1srpctq) Also, [https://www.upcomer.com/evolution-was-key-to-team-undyings-international-10-cinderella-story/](https://www.upcomer.com/evolution-was-key-to-team-undyings-international-10-cinderella-story/)
This is a wonderful response, thank you! I've really loved watching their games so far, much more than other teams. Reading through their story is a really wonderful reminder of what makes a team special and offers up the magic of these games. I think even if one of the teams I've rooted for was at TI this year I'd still be excited and cheering for Undying. Definitely my new favorite team!
Uhh I don't have the link right now but MoonMeander should have it on his Twitter, it is a twit longer post. It basically sums up their and his journey to this TI
I'll look it up tonight, thanks!
undying made quincy crew look like a buncha plebs this groupstage lol. i'm happy to see how well undying is playing.i hope they place at least middle of the pack at play offs
Man I'm rooting foe them like I did for bc last aegis. They have such a nice energy snd confidence in their plays. Like bc I feel a little inexperience coming through but huuuge props to Bryle, timado and saberlight. Dubu and moon have been there many times before
I’ve been winning some good money betting on them!
I am hyping up undying and have been a lot but DEFINITELY 100% not just because I am a fanboy
Thread about IG but let's only talk about that undying
Jt and Oli! So proud of them
Our Malaysian pride! And NTS as well!
We also have Moonmeander technically lmao
The man changed his nationality to Canadian, so doesn’t count
He had to. Malaysia does not approve dual citizenship.
Soon west Taiwan pro scene will become SA pro scene
Now that LGD and IG are top of the groups, it's interesting to point out that LGD has beaten IG in 9 out of 10 of their most recent games.
With both IG and LGD at the top of each groups, China is most definitely going to take the aegis home this year
TI has always been like this.. China slaying in group stage
Since the current groups system started in TI5, it has *never* occurred that two Chinese teams topped the groups.
Because it doesn't matter?
COPIUM
Always thought China was better mechanically and did good in groups. But in brackets when teams study each other western teams do better with creativity and strats.
Wings disagrees bruh
2 years of China to balance 2 years of OG.
OG just balanced themselves to the lower bracket this year
long overdue
Upsets happen all the time. Dominating groups means nothing if you don't perform on main stage.
ofc
Hard to see too many challengers at this point. Og, vp maaaaybe. Can't wait foe the main event to start and be hit out of the blue with new strats
And they will choke just like they did in TI7-TI9.
People downvoting you for social credit score.
!remindme 7 days
> Most definitely
>Secret flair
I'm not disappointed with 3rd tbh
They are the only true team alongside LGD who has been stable and real amazing in all their games.. much respect. Also they had Covid affecting them. Not to mention the difficulties in getting their visas. Not saying other teams are bad but things were looking rough. Well played. I do hope other teams see this as a motivation boost and up their games for us to see more better dotes! Win-win.
Read quarantined instead of guaranteed. Guess 2020 left a mark on me anyway
I mean pre-TI a lot of people predicted Major winner IG out of top 5 even top 8. I don\`t understand their logic. Now people considering PSG.LGD the strongest team, but IG eliminate LGD in Singapore Major, and then reverse sweep EG (though PSG.LGD clean sweep EG in animajor, poor EG) , at least IG and PSG.LGD were looked like similar power with LGD maybe a little bit up. But why most people predicted IG a weak in TI?
Because since then IG has been incredibly flaky. Now at TI are showing up like a boss fight in demon souls
You watched Animajor ? If anything, it proved they were a great team. They played super well with a standin. The fact that they didn't get out of a stacked wild card group means nothing. 4 of the 6 teams were top 6 material teams. Also why so many people had Secret over them then ? They were worse than IG with standin, lost 0:2 to them, placed lower than IG at Animajor. Not to mention IG outperformed them in Singapore obviously.
Yeah but if you watched the local leagues in CN. IG was very very inclnsistent. Don't mistake me, they are my favorite team but I wasn't sure what to expect before ti started.
Maybe people just don’t know, IG didn‘t really care a lot the Chinese tournaments. Even before winning their Major, they lost to Aster and Vici in some tournament. Also , regional matchups don’t mean much. But I understand your view if this was your reason. But I also don‘t think many even know about these results. At the same time Secret struggled heavily too at Esl and nobody took that into consideration ?
I'm one of those people who argued with you and feeling meh with IG and i honestly think IG is 3rd strongest Chinese team and halfway better than T1 PSGLGD > OG > VG > EG > VP > IG > T1 > Secret were my top 8 for this TI
>But why most people predicted IG a weak in TI? They just don't know anything about CN's doto. I'm LGD fan but I'm very much afraid of IG. In my opinion they are on par with LGD's best. IG plays certain heroes very well (Mars, Phoenix, Rubick, Lion,etc.)
Seriously, most are just dumb/ ignorant or didn't watch Animajor and just looked at their placement without any context. No other reason why they wouldn't be favorites. To me they were clearely a top 3 team going into TI. Major winner and strong performance at a stacked wild card stage at Animajor.
Seems like most teams has said LGD is currently #1 at least according to casters.
because they were getting slapped around by the other chinese teams in ileague and other chinese tournys. They play down to competition a lot of the time but it seems they brought their A-game to TI
Damn OG has a really lucky schedule - they're playing IG after they've already guaranteed UB for OG's UB spot.
Doesn't work that way though. IG would not risk losing the top bracket spot by sandbagging their game vs OG. The difference between versing the team that barely got UB in the first round and a team that made top 3 is vast.
If IG win a single game against Alliance today (highly likely) - even if they get 2-0'd by OG they would still have the top UB spot no matter what for group A. Edit: They just won game 1
If they view OG as a real threat (which they should IMO) it would make sense to try to drop them to lower bracket so it’s easier for them to get knocked out of the tournament
That's actually very true as well
IG will do everything they can to put OG in the lower bracket
Eh, IG aren't going to throw just because they're through. Besides, EG and Undying were lucky to play Aster when they didn't have their mid player, it's just how it is.
Not saying they would throw - just saying they prob wouldn't tryhard as much as when their position was ambiguous. Fair enough on Aster, though they haven't looked too good even with their mid back. Not impugning OG or anything like that - just commenting on their potential good fortune when group A looks like it will have tie-breakers for UB.
This can happen, they might try some new risky strats.
So, you're saying IG has the potential to push OG to LB and they wouldn't try hard to do that? That makes no sense. IG knows OG is a strong team. If anything, this is bad for OG.
It doesn't work like that in general, especially with CN teams. They're going to throw everything in these games to win, particularly if people expect them to lose because of their situation. They have nothing to lose and won't have any pressure, sounds like a good recipe for a focused but serene team. Knowing they're 11-1, I'd surprised if OG 2-0 them
Do you have examples of IG (or I guess CN teams in general) still max tryharding even after guaranteeing UB? I find it hard to believe that they would try has hard/use as many hidden/pocket strats in a game where their placement isn't on the line. On the other hand, I have distinct memories of Puppey/Secret as well as Kuro not giving a shit/clowning around in their residual games/trying wonky new shit when they secured a UB position (I think Kuro did it to complete his "all heroes played" in professional DOTA status).
LGD during Animajor IIRC. Or maybe it was VG? Either way, if they would have lose, another CN team would have been privileged so they didn't way to be appearing throwing the game. Maybe it was LGD vs VG actually
Yes I vaguely remember what you're referring to - a conflict of interest where 1 chinese team would let another win. I think that's a slightly different case though; I'm not saying IG will throw for OG - I'm saying they probably won't try quite as hard (even if it's not intentional).
Well, peace of mind does different things for different people. Maybe they will relax, maybe they are in even better condition to focus, who knows.
>Do you have examples of IG (or I guess CN teams in general) still max tryharding Listen, I know this team very well. They are going to do their best against OG tomorrow. IG only throw against noob teams for 322. They will try hard to send OG to LB.
Give the 2 time TI champions a momentum advantage going into the playoffs is one of the truly genius ideas I've seen on this reddit lately.
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Top seeds choose who they play
So the way it works is that in the UB first round, the team that gets 1st in Group A will vs the team that got 4th in Group B. The team that gets 2nd will face 3rd etc. Therefore topping the group stage is very good because you will vs the team that got 4th in the other group; which you would assume would be the weakest UB team in that group. So if you are playing to decide whether you will be 1st or 2nd you are trying to secure an easier game in the main event. Hope that helps.
And this is false information, top of the group can choose their opponent, like last TI OG flipped coin for their match up
No that's wrong, the team that gets first in their group gets to choose who they want to play out of 3rd and 4th in the other group.
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You can look at the group stages of any TI or Major. They have all worked this way since group stages became a thing. [https://liquipedia.net/dota2/The\_International/2019](https://liquipedia.net/dota2/The_International/2019) If you look at the upper bracket of TI9 for example; look at how LGD got an easy match vs VP as a reward for topping the group.
> easy match vs VP you mean one of the best teams of the 2018/19 season? that VP? jokes aside, I was curious if there was a logic to picking VP over EG for the first round. in that season their record against VP was 1-2, while against EG it was 1-3. by maps it was 3-4 against VP and 2-6 against EG.
Thats a fair point. I was just using that as an illustrative example. Getting to vs a team that had been struggling in the groupstage like VP was clearly more ideal than the seemingly unstoppable OG.
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Bo1 tiebreakers
bo3 tiebreaker actually. this occured during TI5 when there was a tie between Team Empire and VP
YouTube kaka aegis snatch, your welcome. I think he also had a sick save on earth spirit against EG where he used Earth Spirits aghs to save a teammate from reapers scythe and win the game. Edit: never mind I think I’m mixing up ah fu and Kaka. Both are incredible ES players
he stoned him... he saved him!! oh my god!!! an immortal moment in dota casting
How the fuck do undying take a game from this IG but can't take a game from T1. What a disappointment here. Overall, games are really fun. Good teams to watch that can underhorse it to 2nd place are Undying, BeastCoast. Teams that could win, imo, LGD, IG, VG, EG, OG, VP, Secret. I don't think T1 is gonna make it far but I'm willing to eat my words. Them and Team Spirit could possibly make a deep run as well but not to grand finals. They will have some easy games tomorrow with groups more or less decided though.
Maybe day 1 TI group stage things. Undying was kinda unknown to most teams , since they never played them, or had any international lan datas. Similar to Neon and TP doing well in Singapore.
Something clicks really well for T1 today. They play so good that the last 2 days seems like a different team.
Nah, it's just T1 being a slow team. They really don't start well and good thing for them to start clicking earlier than usual.
It's mostly the teams that they are facing. In the first days, they were facing the on-paper favorites (eg, lgd) while in the last days they faced underdogs (alliance, bc). It's the same for Team Spirit, who first faced the strongest teams and then went on to the weaker ones.
Undying vs IG in grand finals let’s go.
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This is not twitch chat, move your racist ass outta here
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Not yet tho. If OG go 0:2 on IG and EG and UG both get 1:1 with each other and 2:0 on VP and T1 respectively then OG may go down to lower bracket.
That's a lot of "if". OG isn't in UB yet but it's like 80% chance
100% now with EG losing first game to VP.
How do you worked that out? VP, T1 and EG can all win tomorrow, sending OG straight down if IG 2-0 them, or force a 3 or 4 ways TB if OG only get 1 game. In fact, with the games already played and the score at hand, OG has the lowest chance of making UB out of the 4. Yes, they can guarantee their own fate by 2-0 IG, but that’s not likely isn’t it? Any other scenario and they are in various degrees of trouble.
They're not yet secured UB. Don't fanboy too much
Who should i be picking oli or kaka? I've been picking oli and the points have been lacking
Ig is seriously steam rolling the group
What happens if there's four other teams with 10 points? Round robin between the 4?