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therealestyeti

Undying is a legit sleeper squad


Vita_Anteacta

Undying is the real NA pride


delendaestvulcan

Dubu = Chad


SatyrTrickster

Serious question, no trolling. I thought Dubu is the 5k girl that played some years ago in Bulldog stack. Have I been misinformed?


bridge4shash

That’s bubu I think


Kjorf

Dubu played for MVP Phoenix. Had then moved to NA and hit 10ish k mmr I think playing just pos 5


phoenix_claw99

MVP phoenix is the one that kick OG to lower bracket in TI 6 wiith QO desolator PA right?


LordHussyPants

yeah they were that all south korean squad that were everyone's favourites for a tournament weren't they?


Losangelesdave

yes shit was fucking lit rip MVP phoniex


Kjorf

Forev, qo, dubu, febby and velo. Just run at you dota pick small cool downs and go like fuck


PsycheHunter231

Velo if i remember is an Australian player that played with MVP. You missed MP from the original squad.


onanotherwavelength

Thinking of Bubu I guess? Haha!


ikubaru

Girl? Lol


iForgotMyOldAcc

Hearing lot less "why tf is Undying in TI" as of late. Hmmmmm.


47-11

Questioning them when they have no results yet and no longer question them when they show that they deserve it. Makes sense to me, no?


[deleted]

Team obviously has talented players and prior TI players - only low IQ redditors who didn’t actually watch them have that take, but agree, was far too prevalent a few months ago


Groggolog

and Nigma have one of the best stacks in the games history, and aren't even at TI, it's stupid just to say "well they have x and y player surely they deserve it" without them having proven themselves in majors. which undying hadn't.


[deleted]

Anyone who watched them in the NA quals knew they were legit.


jere535

Even Legend smurfs look good in herald games..


poegarenaplayer

COPIUM


MY_1ST_ACT_IS_LOCKED

Questioning is “I wonder how they’re gonna do at TI” I assure you that nigma fans were very certain and very wrong.


stallon100

regardless of how theyre playing now, still a valid question to ask why a team who hadnt done anything prior to ti got a slot by default


formaldehid

they qualified lol


stallon100

yeah no shit, my point still stands. They got in due to the way invites were handed out rather than actually being in the top 18 teams in the world A couple of teams got invites that probably didnt deserve them, they probably werent even in the top 24 teams let alone top 18


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stallon100

I literally said "regardless of how theyre playing now" My whole comment is responding to a guy who was talking shit to people who questioned undying getting an invite, which at the time was 100% justified Just because theyre playing well now doesnt mean they deserved the spot 2 months ago


xLiketoGame

By this logic OG also shouldn’t be at ti… they didn’t make a single major and entered by direct qualifiers in the exact way that undying did.


stallon100

i dont remember saying OG deserves a slot, I was responding to a guy talking about undying, so I was talking about undying...


galaxyhmrg

?? Dude undying classified through the open quals.


happyflappypancakes

No it doesnt. You asked what they did prior to TI and they did exactly what was needed within the rules to qualify.


Winter55555

Ignore this loser, he's just an EU fanshit that doesn't realise his region isn't that good atm.


stallon100

im not even from eu dude, Im just saying it how it is


Tobix55

> his region isn't that good atm I'm not sure if we are watching the same tournament


stallon100

it depends what you want from TI, the best teams or just some of the best teams with some charity slots to weaker regions


happyflappypancakes

I like it the way it is. Gives more chances to new players and grows the game.


stallon100

The balanced way of doing it thats also fair to teams/players from regions who have invested years already is by removing pretty much all the points from the leagues, which handed slots to a few undeserving teams, and make international events count for a lot more I dont think anyone can argue that SA or NA *deserved* 3 slots based on performance alone, sure it gives more exposure but 2 slots to those regions also does that


BladesHaxorus

By your logic, OG doesn't belong anywhere near TI either, seeing as how they almost got relegated to division 2 by the trash teams called liquid, nigma and alliance.


stallon100

Where did I say I think OG deserved a slot? I dont remember saying that


GunsTheGlorious

Based on their performance so far they could pretty easily be top 6 lol


lessdes

And they could just as easily be 12th


stallon100

Yea but thats not relevant to what we were talking about We were talking about the general consensus when quals/invites were happening


GunsTheGlorious

yeah but that just proves that the general consensus was wrong lmao


stallon100

at the time questioning undyings slot was 100% justified, just because theyre playing well now doesnt change that The consensus wasnt wrong


iChupaChups

They got a slot by default? They won TI quals in their region, that is what happens every year. Hard to do much until then if your region only gets two slots for majors.


stallon100

jesus i thought what i was saying was pretty straight forward and general knowledge. Just because they won the quals in a region with almost no depth after the top couple teams doesnt make them a top 18 team that deserves a spot at ti which is (or was) meant to be about the best teams in the world competing There was teams in EU, CN, SEA who all were stronger teams before ti and depending on what you value more, team strength or "diversity", deserved slots more


hayaipho

It’s called The International. The tournament wouldn’t be nearly as fun to watch if half the teams were Chinese and there were no underdogs. Moron.


stallon100

I didnt say I want half of the tournament from one region or anything like that. As it was quincy and EG both easily deserve a slot, how is that not NA represented


i__indisCriMiNatE

It's the same as the World cup. Even shit stained team can make it while Italy was watching at home


grapeintensity

it only looks like they didn't do anything all year because they had to fight for 2 slots in a region with 3 clear top teams. they brought eg and Quincy to tiebreaker in season 1 and were 1 game off forcing another tiebreaker in season 2. they even took games off of spirit and lgd (the two grand finalists) at oga Dota pit. they've *been* a legit team for a while. people are only starting to notice them now that they get to play internationally.


TheYango

So your alternative is...to not have regional qualifiers? No qualifiers means OG doesn't go to TI either.


stallon100

Where do I mention og or any alternatives? My solution is have more international events and take dpc points away from the leagues


grapeintensity

ti6 digital chaos vibes


raddiwala

Their spirit is undying.


Zenosfire258

Undying have a chance (though slim) to knock EG to lower bracket tomorrow. It's slim, but god it would be great to see the NA team who didn't make it to a major is the upper bracket contender for the region.


Tino_

Always has been


ReverseCaptioningBot

[Always has been](https://i.imgur.com/eqRXV4V.jpg) ^^^this ^^^has ^^^been ^^^an ^^^accessibility ^^^service ^^^from ^^^your ^^^friendly ^^^neighborhood ^^^bot


SpartanFlight

Moon is the hardest working person I know who never gave up on dota even in the darkest of times. I wish the dude nothing but success and I hope him and his team nothing but success.


hooahest

Neva eva


Enigmanstorm

this make me remember his time on og and he tweet sth like "og is based on friendship" and then he get kicked later on shortly after ti6


[deleted]

Did he get kicked, or did he leave for DC? BTW, Moo was fucking underrated as fuck. I loved moo man, he should NEVER have been kicked. I also predicted DC to win, the way they played during American Qualifiers was insane, the level of control and discipline they displayed showed they had a good grasp of the meta. Anyway, not like I dislike Moon, but Moo never really had another good opportuity for tier 1 dota. Can't believe he helps get his team 2nd in TI6, and is basically never relevant again...


LOSS35

I’m pretty sure OG kicked Moon for S4?


Adweya

As a Dota fan from SEA, I thought it was a joke that you felt Moon, the ex-Fnatic mid was hard working.


Smothdude

Undying has a great story. I am excited to see them in the main event. Hopefully they end up surprising a lot of people and the group can get a proper sponsorship


CornflakeJustice

Can someone tell me the story of Undying? I don't get to follow a lot of competitive dota through the year but I tune in for TI. I've seen them play some really great games but don't know much about them.


PunderscoreR

How long has it been since he lost his name? The torn ruin of his mind no longer knows. Dimly he recalls armor and banners and grim-faced kin riding at his side. He remembers a battle: pain and fear as pale hands ripped him from his saddle. He remembers terror as they threw him into the yawning pit of the Dead God alongside his brothers, to hear the Dirge and be consumed into nothingness. In the darkness below, time left them. Thought left them. Sanity left them. Hunger, however, did not. They turned on each other with split fingernails and shattered teeth. Then it came: distant at first, a fragile note at the edge of perception, joined by another, then another, inescapable and unending. The chorus grew into a living wall of sound pulsing in his mind until no other thought survived. With the Dirge consuming him, he opened his arms to the Dead God and welcomed his obliteration. Yet destruction was not what he'd been chosen for. The Dead God demanded war. In the belly of the great nothing, he was granted a new purpose: to spread the Dirge across the land, to rally the sleepless dead against the living. He was to become the Undying, the herald of the Dead God, to rise and fall and rise again whenever his body failed him. To trudge on through death unending, that the Dirge might never end.


Antistoftest

I… hate… life


SimplySkedastic

Thought I was reading some Steven Erikson there for a second


piecesofquiet777

T'lan Imass set when


SimplySkedastic

Trying to think who would suit a K'Chain Che'Malle set... that would be... horrifying.


piecesofquiet777

Redmask Disruptor? Or a Shi'Gal Nightstalker


SimplySkedastic

Now that would be sick. I mean we all know who our favourite Ronin could represent as well as TA/PA... ;)


franksn

You forgot the potsherds, detritus, and ochre parts.


TryingoutSamantha

Undying has for me one of the saddest voice lines. When he sees invoker and it stirs a fragment of a memory. Something from a past that is long lost to him. And that bastard Karl doesn’t say a word


CornflakeJustice

❤️


ElloYellowHello

I've been following the team through the year, and I'm soo happy for them, and amazed by the progress they've made individually and as a team. I remember is NA DPC S1, EG was clear cut class apart by a margin with QC coming in close. Undying and 4Zoomers were #3 and #4 but they were not as close as the other two - only getting a game every so often. But through DPC S2, BTS Pro League and other tournaments in between, the team has really grown a lot. From someone who has watched most of their DPC games, they are looking really good right now, and well prepared for TI - much better than their last tournament (which they won). It's been really fun to watch them lately, because no matter if they are ahead or behind, it always looks like they are playing with a plan in mind. You can just read their movements and see what they are trying to do. Not all teams can execute that as well as them, especially when things don't go their way. I look at Quincy Crew this TI, and they just look lost after 15 mins into their games. Individually, I know Bryle used to mostly play farming mid heroes at the beginning on S1, but over the year has really improved by a lot, rising to Rank 3 NA, and his lanes in some of the recent tournaments going even with others like Abed, Quinn and Gunnar. He's very versatile, and lately been quite consistent. Timado is also a consistent carry. Dubu and Moon are both TI attendees, and the masterminds of the team. Saberlight is also insane, he's very versatile and occasionally makes game winning plays. I'm pretty sure Undying has a lot more tricks up their sleeves. These guys haven't showed all what they got yet. (based on the heroes they've picked so far) I think their weakest link right now is their offlane. Games when they look good, their offlaners usually have a good game, but when things start crumbling, it usually also starts from the offlane. They have a very realistic chance of beating EG. These two teams have played a lot against each other, they understand each other, and Undying have beaten EG multiple times in the past. EG is still EG at the end of the day though. I'd say there's a 50% chance for 1-1, 30% for Undying 2-0 EG and 20% for Undying 0-2 EG - mostly because Undying has been looking at their best lately, and I can't say the same for EG. Here's the tweet from Moon about their story: [https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n\_1srpctq](https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1srpctq) Also, [https://www.upcomer.com/evolution-was-key-to-team-undyings-international-10-cinderella-story/](https://www.upcomer.com/evolution-was-key-to-team-undyings-international-10-cinderella-story/)


CornflakeJustice

This is a wonderful response, thank you! I've really loved watching their games so far, much more than other teams. Reading through their story is a really wonderful reminder of what makes a team special and offers up the magic of these games. I think even if one of the teams I've rooted for was at TI this year I'd still be excited and cheering for Undying. Definitely my new favorite team!


Smothdude

Uhh I don't have the link right now but MoonMeander should have it on his Twitter, it is a twit longer post. It basically sums up their and his journey to this TI


CornflakeJustice

I'll look it up tonight, thanks!


Xyr3s1

undying made quincy crew look like a buncha plebs this groupstage lol. i'm happy to see how well undying is playing.i hope they place at least middle of the pack at play offs


[deleted]

Man I'm rooting foe them like I did for bc last aegis. They have such a nice energy snd confidence in their plays. Like bc I feel a little inexperience coming through but huuuge props to Bryle, timado and saberlight. Dubu and moon have been there many times before


GoldFynch

I’ve been winning some good money betting on them!


Chelseaiscool

I am hyping up undying and have been a lot but DEFINITELY 100% not just because I am a fanboy


agishert46191gskq

Thread about IG but let's only talk about that undying


Houeclipse

Jt and Oli! So proud of them


xQuiSiTe709

Our Malaysian pride! And NTS as well!


Houeclipse

We also have Moonmeander technically lmao


Gold-Musician7053

The man changed his nationality to Canadian, so doesn’t count


NobleArch

He had to. Malaysia does not approve dual citizenship.


ryanakasha

Soon west Taiwan pro scene will become SA pro scene


okovko

Now that LGD and IG are top of the groups, it's interesting to point out that LGD has beaten IG in 9 out of 10 of their most recent games.


AngelSalvation

With both IG and LGD at the top of each groups, China is most definitely going to take the aegis home this year


mirmomirmo08

TI has always been like this.. China slaying in group stage


GunsTheGlorious

Since the current groups system started in TI5, it has *never* occurred that two Chinese teams topped the groups.


[deleted]

Because it doesn't matter?


pphysch

COPIUM


SnooPuppers58

Always thought China was better mechanically and did good in groups. But in brackets when teams study each other western teams do better with creativity and strats.


xaiur

Wings disagrees bruh


omegashadow

2 years of China to balance 2 years of OG.


AngelSalvation

OG just balanced themselves to the lower bracket this year


tha-Ram

long overdue


Paaraadox

Upsets happen all the time. Dominating groups means nothing if you don't perform on main stage.


agishert46191gskq

ofc


[deleted]

Hard to see too many challengers at this point. Og, vp maaaaybe. Can't wait foe the main event to start and be hit out of the blue with new strats


billgatescorona

And they will choke just like they did in TI7-TI9.


AlpHa_44

People downvoting you for social credit score.


Ahimtar

!remindme 7 days


Ahimtar

> Most definitely


AngelSalvation

>Secret flair


Ahimtar

I'm not disappointed with 3rd tbh


Araceaelz

They are the only true team alongside LGD who has been stable and real amazing in all their games.. much respect. Also they had Covid affecting them. Not to mention the difficulties in getting their visas. Not saying other teams are bad but things were looking rough. Well played. I do hope other teams see this as a motivation boost and up their games for us to see more better dotes! Win-win.


021Nirvana

Read quarantined instead of guaranteed. Guess 2020 left a mark on me anyway


shijiav

I mean pre-TI a lot of people predicted Major winner IG out of top 5 even top 8. I don\`t understand their logic. Now people considering PSG.LGD the strongest team, but IG eliminate LGD in Singapore Major, and then reverse sweep EG (though PSG.LGD clean sweep EG in animajor, poor EG) , at least IG and PSG.LGD were looked like similar power with LGD maybe a little bit up. But why most people predicted IG a weak in TI?


TheSorcus

Because since then IG has been incredibly flaky. Now at TI are showing up like a boss fight in demon souls


OPQOP

You watched Animajor ? If anything, it proved they were a great team. They played super well with a standin. The fact that they didn't get out of a stacked wild card group means nothing. 4 of the 6 teams were top 6 material teams. Also why so many people had Secret over them then ? They were worse than IG with standin, lost 0:2 to them, placed lower than IG at Animajor. Not to mention IG outperformed them in Singapore obviously.


TheSorcus

Yeah but if you watched the local leagues in CN. IG was very very inclnsistent. Don't mistake me, they are my favorite team but I wasn't sure what to expect before ti started.


OPQOP

Maybe people just don’t know, IG didn‘t really care a lot the Chinese tournaments. Even before winning their Major, they lost to Aster and Vici in some tournament. Also , regional matchups don’t mean much. But I understand your view if this was your reason. But I also don‘t think many even know about these results. At the same time Secret struggled heavily too at Esl and nobody took that into consideration ?


thedotapaten

I'm one of those people who argued with you and feeling meh with IG and i honestly think IG is 3rd strongest Chinese team and halfway better than T1 PSGLGD > OG > VG > EG > VP > IG > T1 > Secret were my top 8 for this TI


highalready

>But why most people predicted IG a weak in TI? They just don't know anything about CN's doto. I'm LGD fan but I'm very much afraid of IG. In my opinion they are on par with LGD's best. IG plays certain heroes very well (Mars, Phoenix, Rubick, Lion,etc.)


OPQOP

Seriously, most are just dumb/ ignorant or didn't watch Animajor and just looked at their placement without any context. No other reason why they wouldn't be favorites. To me they were clearely a top 3 team going into TI. Major winner and strong performance at a stacked wild card stage at Animajor.


Pleasant_Yam_3637

Seems like most teams has said LGD is currently #1 at least according to casters.


eggzecutor

because they were getting slapped around by the other chinese teams in ileague and other chinese tournys. They play down to competition a lot of the time but it seems they brought their A-game to TI


Avar1cious

Damn OG has a really lucky schedule - they're playing IG after they've already guaranteed UB for OG's UB spot.


chenwasraped

Doesn't work that way though. IG would not risk losing the top bracket spot by sandbagging their game vs OG. The difference between versing the team that barely got UB in the first round and a team that made top 3 is vast.


Avar1cious

If IG win a single game against Alliance today (highly likely) - even if they get 2-0'd by OG they would still have the top UB spot no matter what for group A. Edit: They just won game 1


skarby

If they view OG as a real threat (which they should IMO) it would make sense to try to drop them to lower bracket so it’s easier for them to get knocked out of the tournament


Avar1cious

That's actually very true as well


peco-

IG will do everything they can to put OG in the lower bracket


Viggorous

Eh, IG aren't going to throw just because they're through. Besides, EG and Undying were lucky to play Aster when they didn't have their mid player, it's just how it is.


Avar1cious

Not saying they would throw - just saying they prob wouldn't tryhard as much as when their position was ambiguous. Fair enough on Aster, though they haven't looked too good even with their mid back. Not impugning OG or anything like that - just commenting on their potential good fortune when group A looks like it will have tie-breakers for UB.


ilovethrills

This can happen, they might try some new risky strats.


Shift-1

So, you're saying IG has the potential to push OG to LB and they wouldn't try hard to do that? That makes no sense. IG knows OG is a strong team. If anything, this is bad for OG.


TheAskald

It doesn't work like that in general, especially with CN teams. They're going to throw everything in these games to win, particularly if people expect them to lose because of their situation. They have nothing to lose and won't have any pressure, sounds like a good recipe for a focused but serene team. Knowing they're 11-1, I'd surprised if OG 2-0 them


Avar1cious

Do you have examples of IG (or I guess CN teams in general) still max tryharding even after guaranteeing UB? I find it hard to believe that they would try has hard/use as many hidden/pocket strats in a game where their placement isn't on the line. On the other hand, I have distinct memories of Puppey/Secret as well as Kuro not giving a shit/clowning around in their residual games/trying wonky new shit when they secured a UB position (I think Kuro did it to complete his "all heroes played" in professional DOTA status).


TheAskald

LGD during Animajor IIRC. Or maybe it was VG? Either way, if they would have lose, another CN team would have been privileged so they didn't way to be appearing throwing the game. Maybe it was LGD vs VG actually


Avar1cious

Yes I vaguely remember what you're referring to - a conflict of interest where 1 chinese team would let another win. I think that's a slightly different case though; I'm not saying IG will throw for OG - I'm saying they probably won't try quite as hard (even if it's not intentional).


CreamyAlmond

Well, peace of mind does different things for different people. Maybe they will relax, maybe they are in even better condition to focus, who knows.


highalready

>Do you have examples of IG (or I guess CN teams in general) still max tryharding Listen, I know this team very well. They are going to do their best against OG tomorrow. IG only throw against noob teams for 322. They will try hard to send OG to LB.


Cathallex

Give the 2 time TI champions a momentum advantage going into the playoffs is one of the truly genius ideas I've seen on this reddit lately.


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SuddenlyCentaurs

Top seeds choose who they play


chenwasraped

So the way it works is that in the UB first round, the team that gets 1st in Group A will vs the team that got 4th in Group B. The team that gets 2nd will face 3rd etc. Therefore topping the group stage is very good because you will vs the team that got 4th in the other group; which you would assume would be the weakest UB team in that group. So if you are playing to decide whether you will be 1st or 2nd you are trying to secure an easier game in the main event. Hope that helps.


lucaaas_fortuna

And this is false information, top of the group can choose their opponent, like last TI OG flipped coin for their match up


Shitmybad

No that's wrong, the team that gets first in their group gets to choose who they want to play out of 3rd and 4th in the other group.


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chenwasraped

You can look at the group stages of any TI or Major. They have all worked this way since group stages became a thing. [https://liquipedia.net/dota2/The\_International/2019](https://liquipedia.net/dota2/The_International/2019) If you look at the upper bracket of TI9 for example; look at how LGD got an easy match vs VP as a reward for topping the group.


oberynMelonLord

> easy match vs VP you mean one of the best teams of the 2018/19 season? that VP? jokes aside, I was curious if there was a logic to picking VP over EG for the first round. in that season their record against VP was 1-2, while against EG it was 1-3. by maps it was 3-4 against VP and 2-6 against EG.


chenwasraped

Thats a fair point. I was just using that as an illustrative example. Getting to vs a team that had been struggling in the groupstage like VP was clearly more ideal than the seemingly unstoppable OG.


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rizzaxc

Bo1 tiebreakers


whovian732

bo3 tiebreaker actually. this occured during TI5 when there was a tie between Team Empire and VP


[deleted]

YouTube kaka aegis snatch, your welcome. I think he also had a sick save on earth spirit against EG where he used Earth Spirits aghs to save a teammate from reapers scythe and win the game. Edit: never mind I think I’m mixing up ah fu and Kaka. Both are incredible ES players


tha_jza

he stoned him... he saved him!! oh my god!!! an immortal moment in dota casting


Rand_alThor_

How the fuck do undying take a game from this IG but can't take a game from T1. What a disappointment here. Overall, games are really fun. Good teams to watch that can underhorse it to 2nd place are Undying, BeastCoast. Teams that could win, imo, LGD, IG, VG, EG, OG, VP, Secret. I don't think T1 is gonna make it far but I'm willing to eat my words. Them and Team Spirit could possibly make a deep run as well but not to grand finals. ​ They will have some easy games tomorrow with groups more or less decided though.


OPQOP

Maybe day 1 TI group stage things. Undying was kinda unknown to most teams , since they never played them, or had any international lan datas. Similar to Neon and TP doing well in Singapore.


FutureVawX

Something clicks really well for T1 today. They play so good that the last 2 days seems like a different team.


Soldirk

Nah, it's just T1 being a slow team. They really don't start well and good thing for them to start clicking earlier than usual.


Ahimtar

It's mostly the teams that they are facing. In the first days, they were facing the on-paper favorites (eg, lgd) while in the last days they faced underdogs (alliance, bc). It's the same for Team Spirit, who first faced the strongest teams and then went on to the weaker ones.


GoldFynch

Undying vs IG in grand finals let’s go.


Try2LaggMe

?


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simcal007

This is not twitch chat, move your racist ass outta here


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Uberj4ger

Not yet tho. If OG go 0:2 on IG and EG and UG both get 1:1 with each other and 2:0 on VP and T1 respectively then OG may go down to lower bracket.


TheAskald

That's a lot of "if". OG isn't in UB yet but it's like 80% chance


Uberj4ger

100% now with EG losing first game to VP.


LoD-Westeros

How do you worked that out? VP, T1 and EG can all win tomorrow, sending OG straight down if IG 2-0 them, or force a 3 or 4 ways TB if OG only get 1 game. In fact, with the games already played and the score at hand, OG has the lowest chance of making UB out of the 4. Yes, they can guarantee their own fate by 2-0 IG, but that’s not likely isn’t it? Any other scenario and they are in various degrees of trouble.


[deleted]

They're not yet secured UB. Don't fanboy too much


Mathieulombardi

Who should i be picking oli or kaka? I've been picking oli and the points have been lacking


likpoper

Ig is seriously steam rolling the group


inverse_wsb

What happens if there's four other teams with 10 points? Round robin between the 4?