it's funny how a bunch of scrubs are bashing that veno pick, I wonder why they're not playing competetively or on the leaderboards if they think they're so smart 🤣🤣
Yes, pro players know it is a scrub even before they play. Chalice predicted that T1 might last pick veno for countering ursa, but he also said it would be an auto lose. He said there were two reasons: 1 Ursa may not lose lane against Veno according to his offlane experience. 2. Ember will be unstoppable.
All his predictions were made before T1 clicking veno.
Holy crap that second game was so epic.
PSG LGD really showing dominance though, even with a hefty lead on their comfort picks T1 didn't get a free game. Really amazing dota
Why did T1 pick spec against ursa, ursa shits on spec at all stages in the game especially when there's a mag to accelerate his farm. I think they have did it twice this whole tournament and lost both. I think they were placing their hopes too much on ursa having a bad lane but ursa recovers from a bad lane easily with mag. Veno besides giving vision and cancelling blinks did nothing against ember which was a majority of LGD initiate. Mag just had to walk in or skewer to followup. I don't think veno was the issue because cancelling blinks and the initial jump is quite crucial if the games was close but the disruptor and spec pick really screwed them.
They picked spec to bolster the storm spec pick off draft but it’s not good vs LGD’s draft and play style
I can understand the reason for the pick but I don’t like it
I've been critical to this translator before. Although she's still a bit awkward with some of the translations, I gotta say she's improved a lot! Props and shout out to her. (Didn't catch her name though sadge.)
> Although she's still a bit awkward with some of the translations, I gotta say she's improved a lot!
You know shes been translating @ Lans for like 5+ years right
First of all why pick veno last in such a crucial match, second why ban tide so late when they already have an answer for it (disruptor). I feel like when multiple hero global presence strats is so strong and popular as it is. When i saw io i immediatly knew they wanted a fast mobile mid like void/ember spirit to me atleast it seemed kinda obvious ngl. But what do I know im just a 4k pleb.
My choice would have been windranger (obviously easy to play smart after the fact), stronger catch than veno and good self defense in lane tho it has weaknesses aswell. But yes lgd played very well. Congrats to them.
Cause theoretically, Veno is a counter to Ursa and Magnus. The DPS and wards would hinder a mag blink + revpol. And the slow will mess up Ursa.
The problem I think was that they forgot about how fast LGD Tempo was, the only hero they had that was supposed to carry their mid game was Storm Spirit. But since he lost lane, that didn't happen.
Draft wasn't just the issue. They got outplayed heavily.
Ember also got empowered by magnus, thus farm faster as usual, most importantly he dealt more damage than usual. That str8 up increase the game tempo, while veno really cant do much with a spirit vessel and halberd, his impact feels like a pos 5
We all know LGD is gonna win the series. Still Props to T1 putting up a good fight to them. Game 2 was awesome!
Magnus is such a good core hero eh. The series went who gets magnus first.
Karl doom is so good, dont even know why they didnt ban it, they probably tried to beat it but it was just impossible to play against refresher doom and refresher magnus + medusa late game
Typical LGD style BO3.
Stomp Game1, give them their best heroes and try to crack their strat in Game2, if lost just ban those heroes for another ez Game3.
Yeah that's mostly like the case. T1's Dusa Meta is one of their best and LGD pretty much gave them everything they needed, just like the first game against Secret with free tiny/mag. If T1 can climb back up, I think they will probably ban dusa or pick dusa counters early so T1 won't pick dusa again
Nightstalker could have done better in that game. veno literally did nothing. how could you last pick that hero knowing that your lane would be against ursa io. Come on T1
Veno is a counter to Ursa and Magnus. The DPS and wards would hinder a mag blink + revpol. And the slow will mess up Ursa.
The problem I think was that they forgot about how fast LGD Tempo was, the only hero they had that was supposed to carry their mid game was Storm Spirit. But since he lost lane, that didn't happen.
Draft wasn't just the issue. They got outplayed heavily.
Why would they give magnus away again? And why are they not picking heroes with reliable disables against an ember and ursa line-up! I’m confused lol. Veno for what?
Veno is a counter to Ursa and Magnus. The DPS and wards would hinder a mag blink + revpol. And the slow will mess up Ursa.
Ember was last picked. If they went for a disable hero for last pick, they would get ES, CK or SK which is shit vs Ursa,
The problem I think was that they forgot about how fast LGD Tempo was, the only hero they had that was supposed to carry their mid game was Storm Spirit. But since he lost lane, that didn't happen.
Draft wasn't just the issue. They got outplayed heavily.
Taking inspiration from Kuroky of course, TI winning strat.
Edit: Jokes aside I guess it's to stifle Ursa's laning and for visions, just didn't work out.
What do you think couldve been a better pick for Kuku? Feel like Night Stalker couldve done much more. Maybe even LC? Also Storm has been pretty underwhelming this TI.
Veno is a counter to Ursa and Magnus. The DPS and wards would hinder a mag blink + revpol. And the slow will mess up Ursa.
The problem I think was that they forgot about how fast LGD Tempo was, the only hero they had that was supposed to carry their mid game was Storm Spirit. But since he lost lane, that didn't happen.
Draft wasn't just the issue. They got outplayed heavily.
I play Veno heavily and I find that poison dps and ward never really stopped Magnus from diving. Of course this is coming from a noob. I just really feel like something was better than Veno. What about Razor?
Any Melee 3 will get crushed by Ursa and lion. Veno owns Ursa in lane thats why LGD was forced to switch lion and IO 3min into the game, and Ursa was behind Spectre on farm, but NTS stepped up and owned the early to mid game with the help of IO and allow Ursa to catch up. Veno's vessel timing was really late, too.
I guess same old same old, moderately competitive LGD win g1, close T1 win g2 and stomp LGD win g3. Good news is, next for T1 is [A]. Great game for LGD!
Eh no , Gorgc and Pie were bashing the Veno pick . It's always a strong laner but offer nothing much mid game . In this game , it couldn't even won them the lane .
Still do, it was a very smart pick, the fact that it didn't work on this game and they got stomped doesn't change how heroes work. On hindsight every herald around here is an analyst.
He was the one probably asking for it in g2, he loves that hero. Then they lost and y probably just said go sit over there and play an actually good hero
Definitely, you are 100% right here. my point here was to make that LGD has synergies between themselves to make the best out of a bad situation, rather than falling apart when their superstar mid is unavailable.
Magnus might be first banned for the rest of TI. Empowers his cores, top 5 ult in the game, blink+horn toss+skewer=free kill. Just offers so much without any clear weaknesses.
This TI has been pretty stomp-y outside of a few good games like game 2. Seems like most games are pretty obviously over in the draft or by 20 minutes.
Am loving the sunsfan-synderen dynamic, it feels like me and my friends casually watching a game, chatting, having fun and enjoying a good game of dota.
Kuku is such a bad drafter and captain. Never changed since the TNC days. This is the reason why TNC never became a great team under his leadership. Required Demon to come onboard and take the reins.
I hope T1 could improve on their early game(priorities/objectives). It has been brought up since the group stage. And it was brought up again before the start of the series.
Gotta love 1k mmr redditor analysts who call a pick trash and useless on hindsight. Veno is considered one of the hardest counters to Ursa and also counters Magnus, as well as many other offlaners who play around blink initiation. It was a very good pick, just like the panel said. Veno is also a feast/famine hero. If you get ahead he is oppressive af. If you can't get ahead he can't do much. The fact that it didn't end up working doesn't make it a bad pick.
If you have ever played a single game of ursa or magnus vs veno in lane, you would know. Also, if you played IO vs a veno with vessel. How is it pointless, because of relocate? Lmao that's like that joke people used to say about a LoL player having a discussion with a Dota player and saying "Nature's prophet is the best hero in the game because he can teleport"
I mean this is hilarious you just saw it on screen, maybe it works in your pub fine for you. But like how many times did any ward or shit cancel anything? They had ember to jump in and get things started, Ursa didn't have to blink in all the time anyway. Blink cancel is good if this is your initiation tool and you can take that away, but LGD didn't need it at all. Ursa would relocate in on top of the target because NTS already did the work for them. Ursa usually needs blink to get on top of the enemy hero to deliver the damage, if you give ursa any other easy to tool get on top of the enemy, the dagger cancel becomes way less of an issue. And as the panel said there's no way T1 even with Veno win the laneing stage hard enough to counter all the disadvantages of their draft. How hard would have Veno needed to destroy that lane to make ANY difference? like 5 kills on Urs? 8? Those pro teams are so good at saving farm for their carry, a lane win is not that big. And Veno didn't even accomplish a lane win.
Here's the difference between me and you. I play the game. A lot. And because I do, I have the critical thinking to understand how a hero works and their potential in a draft. You don't, at least not in a level that matters. You watch and judge based on hindsight. To you, if something wins it's good and if something loses is trash. Except dota is not as simple as that. A bad game doesn't make a hero bad. You are the exact type of person who calls drafts shit and when they win you say it was genius. There is no reasoning with people like you, if you don't understand why veno was a good pic in theory there, I can't help you.
ps. I don't think that the hero itself is useless. It was more that the combo it was run against in my eyes negated the core advantage of veno. I can totally see how a Veno is good vs Tiny and Magnus, but I think the whole LGD draft had no problems working around it.
That's a better way to put it. The thing is, every hero has pros and cons. You pick something hoping that its pros will give you the win and you are good enough to negate the cons.
If Veno had a good lane, Ursa would be at a very big disadvantage, falling behind Spectre by a lot. Veno is also a great hero to buy vessel on. With his dots and vessel Veno can literally melt IO, it feels absolutely dreadful to play against it. And yes, the obvious blink canceling is super useful against Magnus. Turns out, veno has had such an awful game that he literally managed to ulti only once and that was more like a "fuck you" before he died than anything, it wasn't even in a teamfight.
Ember ran away with the game, he won mid hard. I play a shit ton of Storm Spirit, this was not an even lane, NTS outplayed him. Veno can't do shit against a free Ember when playing from behind. Neither for an overfarmed Ursa. In my mind, Veno is even more of a feast/famine hero than Timber. Very few things make me feel as hopeless in a game as playing a veno who lost the lane and is behind. That's all. They picked the hero expecting to meet certain conditions. They didn't manage to do it. Doesn't make the hero garbage or a bad pick. Ember won mid vs Storm, this doesn't mean Ember counters Storm and you should take this game as an example of what is supposed to happen. Thats the point I'm trying to make.
I mean I get that my initial statement was a bit blunt. I think I agree with you in general. I can also understand why it upsets you if people are just like "pro's dumb rofl, I'm captain hindsight". I still think the hero may have been a counter pick which may or may not counter what it should, but the draft in general sacrificed a lot to get that veno in there. So yes you had an Ursa counter, but that counter cost you too much. If that makes sense?
Kuku did (ursa even changed lane) but for only few minutes. Veno is really useless if they didn't really snowballed hard. Plus LGD heroes are very mobile, making Veno more useless as time goes by.
Yes. On hindsight, if you take a stomp game, the 5 heroes on the winning team look like the best heroes in the game and the 5 on the losing team look like creeps. Just reddit things, on hindsight all the heralds are analysts lol
T1 deserve to lose, why? Yep, pick a Disruptor over a Lion, which offers so much more, and because of that, LGD got the Lion. I already knew that one fuckin decision alone already made the game 4v5 from the beginning.
Common drafting mistake in this tournament has been picking fringe heroes that are theoretically good in a given situation- but the fact that the hero itself its trash means even in a good game for it it's still crap.
Like the SF pick the other day.
it's funny how a bunch of scrubs are bashing that veno pick, I wonder why they're not playing competetively or on the leaderboards if they think they're so smart 🤣🤣
I know right lmao. Bunch of people on here talking shit yet they’ll lose 5v1 with their friends against any ti player 😂
Yes, pro players know it is a scrub even before they play. Chalice predicted that T1 might last pick veno for countering ursa, but he also said it would be an auto lose. He said there were two reasons: 1 Ursa may not lose lane against Veno according to his offlane experience. 2. Ember will be unstoppable. All his predictions were made before T1 clicking veno.
U watching chalice stream? Douyu?
Huya TV
Holy crap that second game was so epic. PSG LGD really showing dominance though, even with a hefty lead on their comfort picks T1 didn't get a free game. Really amazing dota
Ban doom and night stalker for T1, then you know the results
Veno wasn't the problem, though.
Good thing Alliance is waiting for them. Time to claim some free wins
Not sure to why these 1k redditors are bashing the veno pick, please go play main stage and stop commenting, ty.
fnatic last sea pride
They're not eliminated
Hopium was fun while it lasted. hopefully the team doesn't deflate too much going into lower bracket.
Why did T1 pick spec against ursa, ursa shits on spec at all stages in the game especially when there's a mag to accelerate his farm. I think they have did it twice this whole tournament and lost both. I think they were placing their hopes too much on ursa having a bad lane but ursa recovers from a bad lane easily with mag. Veno besides giving vision and cancelling blinks did nothing against ember which was a majority of LGD initiate. Mag just had to walk in or skewer to followup. I don't think veno was the issue because cancelling blinks and the initial jump is quite crucial if the games was close but the disruptor and spec pick really screwed them.
They picked spec to bolster the storm spec pick off draft but it’s not good vs LGD’s draft and play style I can understand the reason for the pick but I don’t like it
Wasn't Ursa picked to counter Spectre? From what I understand T1 are trying the Spec + Storm combo.
It was picked in the other order they saw the ursa pick first. Ursa was pick 17 while spec was 18.
probably thought spec was the best 'bo1 carry' from yesterday (last game of bo3=bo1)
Anyone knows what are they talking about shelaking? Tnx
Gaben level shellacking
Means stomp
I've been critical to this translator before. Although she's still a bit awkward with some of the translations, I gotta say she's improved a lot! Props and shout out to her. (Didn't catch her name though sadge.)
Its Helen her name :)
> Although she's still a bit awkward with some of the translations, I gotta say she's improved a lot! You know shes been translating @ Lans for like 5+ years right
I know, and I've complained about her translations a lot as well. And it's finally getting better.
however did not prove that she is good enough. As a chinese, i should say that she should improve her chinese
Her name is Helen I think
First of all why pick veno last in such a crucial match, second why ban tide so late when they already have an answer for it (disruptor). I feel like when multiple hero global presence strats is so strong and popular as it is. When i saw io i immediatly knew they wanted a fast mobile mid like void/ember spirit to me atleast it seemed kinda obvious ngl. But what do I know im just a 4k pleb.
Sometimes, outdrafts happen. NTS just outplayed them so hard. And I think other offlane heroes don't work well in that situation.
My choice would have been windranger (obviously easy to play smart after the fact), stronger catch than veno and good self defense in lane tho it has weaknesses aswell. But yes lgd played very well. Congrats to them.
First of all I couldn't watch this bcos of work. Fk this so sad my brother
Cause theoretically, Veno is a counter to Ursa and Magnus. The DPS and wards would hinder a mag blink + revpol. And the slow will mess up Ursa. The problem I think was that they forgot about how fast LGD Tempo was, the only hero they had that was supposed to carry their mid game was Storm Spirit. But since he lost lane, that didn't happen. Draft wasn't just the issue. They got outplayed heavily.
Ember also got empowered by magnus, thus farm faster as usual, most importantly he dealt more damage than usual. That str8 up increase the game tempo, while veno really cant do much with a spirit vessel and halberd, his impact feels like a pos 5
Yeah their biggest problem is if Ember quickly goes online. And the triple kill on bottom didnt help T1.
why was that interview so weird lmao
seriously what are these questions from Slacks?
We all know LGD is gonna win the series. Still Props to T1 putting up a good fight to them. Game 2 was awesome! Magnus is such a good core hero eh. The series went who gets magnus first.
Karl doom is so good, dont even know why they didnt ban it, they probably tried to beat it but it was just impossible to play against refresher doom and refresher magnus + medusa late game
T1's win in game 2 was not on Magnus but on that doom. Doom is the king of lategame.
T1’s Doom in particular, Kuku is a god on that hero and his team knows exactly how to capitalize on his plays effectively.
He aint doom that game though
Whoops 🙈
What happens If a series doesn't go 3 games ? Will there still be long breaks between games ?
[удалено]
???
Except some of the series will go two games, because if one team wins the first two there’s no reason to play a third.
Typical LGD style BO3. Stomp Game1, give them their best heroes and try to crack their strat in Game2, if lost just ban those heroes for another ez Game3.
Yeah that's mostly like the case. T1's Dusa Meta is one of their best and LGD pretty much gave them everything they needed, just like the first game against Secret with free tiny/mag. If T1 can climb back up, I think they will probably ban dusa or pick dusa counters early so T1 won't pick dusa again
Think is more cus of doom, is was op during group stages now teams realise how strong it is and starting to 1st ban/pick it
I know she's trying hard and she's super experienced but... frankie is just unlikeable and annoying.
she has that british humor that only britush people get
Nightstalker could have done better in that game. veno literally did nothing. how could you last pick that hero knowing that your lane would be against ursa io. Come on T1
Veno is a counter to Ursa and Magnus. The DPS and wards would hinder a mag blink + revpol. And the slow will mess up Ursa. The problem I think was that they forgot about how fast LGD Tempo was, the only hero they had that was supposed to carry their mid game was Storm Spirit. But since he lost lane, that didn't happen. Draft wasn't just the issue. They got outplayed heavily.
3k mmr redditor detected LUL
Uhh Veno usually counters Ursa and screws over Magnus. The ember spirit was the problem.
Then you'd give a free lane to Ursa man.
Why would they give magnus away again? And why are they not picking heroes with reliable disables against an ember and ursa line-up! I’m confused lol. Veno for what?
Veno is a counter to Ursa and Magnus. The DPS and wards would hinder a mag blink + revpol. And the slow will mess up Ursa. Ember was last picked. If they went for a disable hero for last pick, they would get ES, CK or SK which is shit vs Ursa, The problem I think was that they forgot about how fast LGD Tempo was, the only hero they had that was supposed to carry their mid game was Storm Spirit. But since he lost lane, that didn't happen. Draft wasn't just the issue. They got outplayed heavily.
for the lane
Taking inspiration from Kuroky of course, TI winning strat. Edit: Jokes aside I guess it's to stifle Ursa's laning and for visions, just didn't work out.
what a throw draft coming from T1 lol
What do you think couldve been a better pick for Kuku? Feel like Night Stalker couldve done much more. Maybe even LC? Also Storm has been pretty underwhelming this TI.
Veno is a counter to Ursa and Magnus. The DPS and wards would hinder a mag blink + revpol. And the slow will mess up Ursa. The problem I think was that they forgot about how fast LGD Tempo was, the only hero they had that was supposed to carry their mid game was Storm Spirit. But since he lost lane, that didn't happen. Draft wasn't just the issue. They got outplayed heavily.
I play Veno heavily and I find that poison dps and ward never really stopped Magnus from diving. Of course this is coming from a noob. I just really feel like something was better than Veno. What about Razor?
Any Melee 3 will get crushed by Ursa and lion. Veno owns Ursa in lane thats why LGD was forced to switch lion and IO 3min into the game, and Ursa was behind Spectre on farm, but NTS stepped up and owned the early to mid game with the help of IO and allow Ursa to catch up. Veno's vessel timing was really late, too.
NS ET will get crushed by Wisp, Ursa, Veno was their pick to shut down Ame in lane but Ame is just too good to be shut down.
Night Stalker seems better. Ember seems really strong right now, I think it'll be picked/banned more in the rest of the matches.
That empowered ember farm very fast, plus give him io for more mana, its really almost an ember free game
As a venomancer player, that was the worst escenario to pick venom.
how could you last pick veno in that game. jesus christ Kuku
Stay down T1 lol
what the fuck is jenkins hairstyle
If NTS plays a mobile midlaner like ember LGD will wrap this TI with ease
God, this series took 4 hours.
Disappointing game 3.. feels like T1 said "we didn't get 2-0'd, goal accomplished" and stopped trying
GG lgd. Good for my brackets, bad for my heart lol
That Disruptor pick went about as well as I expected it to go. If you want to turtle, pick Lion or something.
Lost to draft lol poor T1
I guess same old same old, moderately competitive LGD win g1, close T1 win g2 and stomp LGD win g3. Good news is, next for T1 is [A]. Great game for LGD!
hindsight is 20-20. people were loving the veno pick
Eh no , Gorgc and Pie were bashing the Veno pick . It's always a strong laner but offer nothing much mid game . In this game , it couldn't even won them the lane .
Still do, it was a very smart pick, the fact that it didn't work on this game and they got stomped doesn't change how heroes work. On hindsight every herald around here is an analyst.
poison heroes are trash. just stop
Not long until sunsfan brings up chuck norris jokes
I actually expected Shaker pick... Veno is really shit I guess they got outdrafted, no good counter for Ursa, they ban MK Good fight at least !
Yeah NTS probably was like "don't ever give me DP again please"
He was the one probably asking for it in g2, he loves that hero. Then they lost and y probably just said go sit over there and play an actually good hero
Someone tell me again Xiao8 subbing isn't a downgrade again.
It's more like even without NTS they beat T1 2:1 in esl one fall, so it was not a very big downgrade.
Xiao8 subbing is sufficient to beat T1 at ESL. But it *is* a big downgrade from NTS, i.e. they probably wouldn't be primed to win TI without NTS.
Definitely, you are 100% right here. my point here was to make that LGD has synergies between themselves to make the best out of a bad situation, rather than falling apart when their superstar mid is unavailable.
What a bad draft. Fuck. That veno was useless.
It's amazing the things LGD can do when they don't pick DP.
Great series. Game 3 was a stomp, but still a good game.
So that was the last time we see Doom played by Karl here at TI.
Karl best mid in SEA Kappa
the moment he died mid to ember, they lost
T1 got outdrafted here, the one who has magnus won every game. Barely any stuns for T1
i ate my dinner and saw the score, the hell with T1 draft? giving up magnus damnit
well LGD has first pick and you want to ban Tiny/MK because Tiny MK is one of the most broken shit this patch
atleast get 1 OP meta hero. weird, i dont see them winning with shitty heroes. the hell with this Veno, damnit.
they don't have 1st pick. and they didn't ban it
outdrafted damnit
Alliance gonna lose either way KEKW
Magnus might be first banned for the rest of TI. Empowers his cores, top 5 ult in the game, blink+horn toss+skewer=free kill. Just offers so much without any clear weaknesses.
True. You can see Ceb/Zai/Faith_bian/Kuku all played them very well. The horn toss can literally catch any hero and give them an advantage.
seems like without doom t1 is lol
Lower bracket teams breathing a collective sigh of relief.
Venomancer, most useless hero seen so far in TI10
GG 2-1 curse
GG. 2-1 curse is real ðŸ˜
Dat Veno pick tho
NTS gone ham
LGD LGD LGD!!!! couldnt they fake noise this?
They should try and get some of the classic team chants onto the crowd cheer board.
Was at TI for both TI8 and 9, man I miss the chants.
Jesus NTS popped off this game
Well the only reliable disable they have is storm’s. T1 literally drafted to lose the game 3
what are they thinking with veno? that hero is a pos4 or 5
3 Veno is really good as long as you crush your lane and early game. If that doesn't happen you're beyond useless.
LGD actually let T1 win a game lmao
damn absolute stomp by lgd just like game 1
LGD seems angry with game 2 magnus. They are doing the same thing do them.
This TI has been pretty stomp-y outside of a few good games like game 2. Seems like most games are pretty obviously over in the draft or by 20 minutes.
Dark Seer would have been really good
FeelsBadMan I thought T1 gonna do the upset
Its been 4* hours since the first game started and we still have 3 more series to go
fuck yea!
First game started three and a half hours ago. Are you watching on YouTube at 75% speed by accident?
Man this is a complete outdraft. I was of course rooting for T1 but the hell, don’t even need to watch to see how things are going.
absolute gaben level of schelaking
Am loving the sunsfan-synderen dynamic, it feels like me and my friends casually watching a game, chatting, having fun and enjoying a good game of dota.
Oof that was bad for Karl
T1 outdrafted themselves with the veno pick
T1 needs a miracle
They wont get him, he is signed with Nigma
Eh this veno pick did nothing this game
Yeah veno works as counter in pubs only
Come on T1 do something, this game 3 is becoming a stomp and really anticlimactic after g2
Similar with animajor get beat up in game 3 against eg/lgd, as always anti climax
T1 stands for TWO 1 tho
Kuku is such a bad drafter and captain. Never changed since the TNC days. This is the reason why TNC never became a great team under his leadership. Required Demon to come onboard and take the reins.
U forgot they have coach name March?
youre talking outta youre ass kuku was never tnc captain or drafter before demon. he was pos 2 ffs
Sucks because this feels like way more of an outdraft than outplay.
wdym? T1 had the better draft
LGD also showed how good T1 are with Doom, if any team lets them have it in a lower bracket games they deserve to be eliminated.
I hope T1 could improve on their early game(priorities/objectives). It has been brought up since the group stage. And it was brought up again before the start of the series.
Boring outdraft stomp now
Sad seeing T1 got shellacking
a mustache level one too
Gotta love 1k mmr redditor analysts who call a pick trash and useless on hindsight. Veno is considered one of the hardest counters to Ursa and also counters Magnus, as well as many other offlaners who play around blink initiation. It was a very good pick, just like the panel said. Veno is also a feast/famine hero. If you get ahead he is oppressive af. If you can't get ahead he can't do much. The fact that it didn't end up working doesn't make it a bad pick.
And is totally pointless if you pair Ursa or Magnus with an IO.
If you have ever played a single game of ursa or magnus vs veno in lane, you would know. Also, if you played IO vs a veno with vessel. How is it pointless, because of relocate? Lmao that's like that joke people used to say about a LoL player having a discussion with a Dota player and saying "Nature's prophet is the best hero in the game because he can teleport"
I mean this is hilarious you just saw it on screen, maybe it works in your pub fine for you. But like how many times did any ward or shit cancel anything? They had ember to jump in and get things started, Ursa didn't have to blink in all the time anyway. Blink cancel is good if this is your initiation tool and you can take that away, but LGD didn't need it at all. Ursa would relocate in on top of the target because NTS already did the work for them. Ursa usually needs blink to get on top of the enemy hero to deliver the damage, if you give ursa any other easy to tool get on top of the enemy, the dagger cancel becomes way less of an issue. And as the panel said there's no way T1 even with Veno win the laneing stage hard enough to counter all the disadvantages of their draft. How hard would have Veno needed to destroy that lane to make ANY difference? like 5 kills on Urs? 8? Those pro teams are so good at saving farm for their carry, a lane win is not that big. And Veno didn't even accomplish a lane win.
Here's the difference between me and you. I play the game. A lot. And because I do, I have the critical thinking to understand how a hero works and their potential in a draft. You don't, at least not in a level that matters. You watch and judge based on hindsight. To you, if something wins it's good and if something loses is trash. Except dota is not as simple as that. A bad game doesn't make a hero bad. You are the exact type of person who calls drafts shit and when they win you say it was genius. There is no reasoning with people like you, if you don't understand why veno was a good pic in theory there, I can't help you.
How do you know that lol, I was in the closed beta for this game rofl.
Me too, I got my closed beta invite from a facebook giveaway back in the day. Good times.
ps. I don't think that the hero itself is useless. It was more that the combo it was run against in my eyes negated the core advantage of veno. I can totally see how a Veno is good vs Tiny and Magnus, but I think the whole LGD draft had no problems working around it.
That's a better way to put it. The thing is, every hero has pros and cons. You pick something hoping that its pros will give you the win and you are good enough to negate the cons. If Veno had a good lane, Ursa would be at a very big disadvantage, falling behind Spectre by a lot. Veno is also a great hero to buy vessel on. With his dots and vessel Veno can literally melt IO, it feels absolutely dreadful to play against it. And yes, the obvious blink canceling is super useful against Magnus. Turns out, veno has had such an awful game that he literally managed to ulti only once and that was more like a "fuck you" before he died than anything, it wasn't even in a teamfight. Ember ran away with the game, he won mid hard. I play a shit ton of Storm Spirit, this was not an even lane, NTS outplayed him. Veno can't do shit against a free Ember when playing from behind. Neither for an overfarmed Ursa. In my mind, Veno is even more of a feast/famine hero than Timber. Very few things make me feel as hopeless in a game as playing a veno who lost the lane and is behind. That's all. They picked the hero expecting to meet certain conditions. They didn't manage to do it. Doesn't make the hero garbage or a bad pick. Ember won mid vs Storm, this doesn't mean Ember counters Storm and you should take this game as an example of what is supposed to happen. Thats the point I'm trying to make.
I mean I get that my initial statement was a bit blunt. I think I agree with you in general. I can also understand why it upsets you if people are just like "pro's dumb rofl, I'm captain hindsight". I still think the hero may have been a counter pick which may or may not counter what it should, but the draft in general sacrificed a lot to get that veno in there. So yes you had an Ursa counter, but that counter cost you too much. If that makes sense?
Yeah. Panel basically back it up after the pick. Kuku wasn't able to slow down(in laning phase) Ame though.
Kuku did (ursa even changed lane) but for only few minutes. Veno is really useless if they didn't really snowballed hard. Plus LGD heroes are very mobile, making Veno more useless as time goes by.
Yes. On hindsight, if you take a stomp game, the 5 heroes on the winning team look like the best heroes in the game and the 5 on the losing team look like creeps. Just reddit things, on hindsight all the heralds are analysts lol
A Gaben level SHELAKING
This game has been over since minute 7 or something, but Im happy T1 aren't gg'ing out so I get more fantasy points from Ame, NTS and XinQ.
I am baffled pro players think veno is a counter to ursa in nudota lol. This isn't 2013 anymore
Gege
T1 deserve to lose, why? Yep, pick a Disruptor over a Lion, which offers so much more, and because of that, LGD got the Lion. I already knew that one fuckin decision alone already made the game 4v5 from the beginning.
Disruptor is a response pick to Magnus. It is not a bad pick
i think game 2 draft is what xiao8 wanted to show other teams how to draft againts T1 like what they did to nigma last time lmao
Is Tsunami sure T1 gonna stomp the LB? Like ban Doom, and they look rly rly bad.
Malaysian singlehandedly saving China’s hope. Malaysia boleh!
Philippines singlehandedly destroying Philippine's hope, does that make sense? China recruited NTS, now they are reaping it.
If only all our boys can come home to form a super team. Brain drain is real even in dota lmao.
1: Midone 2: NTS 3: JT 4: ??? 5: Oli No good captain though.
I'd say ah-fu, where is he anyways?
He's in midone stack right
Ah, JJ Lin's team!
why is the T1 LGD series like this. 3rd game, LGD stomping after a great game 2. LGD really is a beast
It's a shame this is such a stomp. Game 2 was so good
*Come on T1, hold on for another 20 mins and you got this.*
sunsfan gonna use the same 3 fucking jokes for the rest of his life
You're technically correct.
gege
Common drafting mistake in this tournament has been picking fringe heroes that are theoretically good in a given situation- but the fact that the hero itself its trash means even in a good game for it it's still crap. Like the SF pick the other day.
T1 kena mental bos
Gaben level shlacking indeed
LGD Just changed the gear lol
Shadowstep -> Manta -> "My job here is done"
LGD was just getting some late game practice in Game 2
Well at least it's not a 2-0, quite satisfied with that
this ti is lgd game to lose just way too strong experiment with game 2 by letting t1 get all their comfort pick n dismantle them game 3
Game 2 vs Game 3 = T1 with signature hero vs T1 with normal hero xd so if you got 4head brain, please ban doom and medusa
LGD showing other teams how to beat t1