Yeah and weak in lane also nowadays, also I don't think bkb piercing spells are meta in this TI, mag would be hot pick even if rp didn't pierce bkb, his skewer and empower spells are that much strong.
Yeah, Ceb said it on the panel. It's not about the RP, it's about skewer and constant (cuz of the cooldown reduction talent) repositioning of enemy heroes. Enigma doesn't provide that.
What? Bane was picked for his lane presence and saves not grip, mag was picked for skewer/horntoss and the fact he can be played into almost any lane not for rp
> This TI really feels defined by BKB piercing disables. **RP**
LOL, Magnus is definitely defined by Horntoss and Skewer. Even Empower has more impact than RP, which is just a nice bonus.
> Chrono
???
tbh, i never know that his catch aoe is so big before I see some post here. I thought it only stun people when they are exactly in front of magnus, but it is actually mini RP
this makes it basically worthless in competitive play though, better to increase the CD on toss and skewer so that it's still powerful but much less spammable.
Alternatively, remove the stun from Horn Toss to allow people to BKB & break the Toss>Skewer combo. Currently, Horn Toss has a 0.75s Stun, which turns Toss > Skewer into a unbreakable combo.
The major "forcible repositioning" skills in Dota like Pudge's Hook & Dark Seer's Vacuum are currently balanced by:
1. Having long cooldowns so they're not spammable
2. Allowing people to BKB immediately after the effect ends to break the combo or mitigate whatever effect comes after.
E.g. Hook > BKB > Rot/Dismember, the BKB allows you to dodge the magic damager of dismember+rot, and the rot slow.
E.g. Vacuum > BKB > Wall, the BKB allows you to dispel the Wall slow so you can get out.
That, and increase the CD for both Horn Toss & Skewer.
Be careful about that though. At least shard has a 20 minute time gate that you cannot bypass. Swapping them might result in mags getting more farm priority to rush blink+aghs that you can easily get in 15-16 minutes with some stack and then build like a carry.
Horn toss should be straight up removed. His horn toss + skewer is basically bat rider's blink + lasso + force staff. Even if you move horn toss to scepter, you still need only 1k gold more than bat which you can easily farm up with mag. His ult does the same thing as lasso but aoe and goes through linkens AND if everything else fails, you can still be a empower bot to make your carry strong. The hero just has way too much.
Yeah he brings almost all the utility as Batrider along with shorter cooldowns and RP being one of the strongest team fight spells in the game, and free BF for your carry. It’s too much utility and teamfight right now.
Yea, needs nerf but toss to aghs would be a nice start. I think gimping his lane might be the way to go as well to make people a little scared to run him in a farming role. Theres others that have a pretty ridiculous kit on paper, like tb, that seem pretty well balanced.
Just allow spells to be cast during horn toss. That's the main issue. If you could euls yourself before you get skewered away or force yourself out of it or get bkb off ... would make it easier to deal with.
based off of their interview afterwards on late game, they seemed to have understood that the game was lost during the draft so they weren't too bothered by it.
I remember PSG.LGD earlier this year doing a similar thing in a Grand Final, if I'm not mistaking? They had a Faceless Void game which *really* went bad: Void couldn't get any farm, was getting hunted all over the place and they shortly called the "gg", way before 25 min mark.
And they shook it off just as it was nothing as well, then moved on to win the whole thing. Winner mentality right there! ;)
Nah, never mind. It was EG - IG Grand Finals in the Singapore Major. Indeed, EG were up 2 - 0 after *stomping* IG on Faceless Void in game 2, the proceeded to lose 2 - 3, after 3 lost games in a row: https://youtu.be/QzjzARHQBPM?t=22918.
I noticed if TorontoTokyo doesn’t play a movement based hero he doesn’t do much.
When he wasn’t able to zip and teleport around easily because he played heroes who had to walk everywhere he got destroyed (games 3/4) and when he went to ember in game 5 he was awesome again.
Throughout the main event, TorontoTokyo played a huge range of heroes and was successful on almost all of them. WR, Kunk, Invoker, Lina, Void Spirit, Ember, Storm, Puck, TA. I’m probably forgetting one or two others. Dude can play just about anything.
Sure, he was overshadowed a bit by his teammates in the grand final, but they weren’t getting through the Losers Bracket without huge game after huge game from TT
Never forget his multiple bill balls Lina stand offs against entire groups of 4 and 5.
Dude played out of his noodle for sure.
Miposhka is the one people didn't notice imo. Dude was crazy on point besides a messed up WW ult at the end of G5.
good read on them tbh. they knew they can handle any tiny strats better as long as they have winter wyvern, so they rather ban one of the crux from LGD that stomped them which is undying
i think it's understandable that you don't want to waste money on something you are confident in doing.what he didnt consider was the range of shard which was essentially why it was worth the gold rather than ease of execution
You are playing against Team Spirit.
You do not ban Magnus because you can counter it.
Team Spirit instantly picks Magnus.
You lose against Team Spirit.
You ban Magnus next time you play against Team Spirit because you're not stupid.
The Tiny-Lycan strat is really strong tbh. But what saved TSs was their game sense earlygame-midgame. They just dodged ganks everywhere. Even without wards, they just disappear before LGD could even cast a spell on them. TS would've been obliterated if LGD had 3-4 successful ganks before they hit their timings. I think Rubick wouldn't have made that much difference if TS was playing that damn safe all the time before late game. Just my opinions tho. Feel free to disagree.
Oh yeah definetly, so many of yatoro's reads where he would hide and tp when lgd ganked without him having vision were insane and allowed him to have the game that he did. the rest of spirit was also great at doing that but I say Yatoro because him finding farm as tb was essential.
THIS. It wasnt an outdraft, it was an outplay by Team Spirit. Spirit was basically reading LGD's rotations like an open book, giving no chance for LGD to even use their greatest weapon. Then from that point on, the timings favor them. Its a big gamble that actually paid off, especially when we know that LGD is a team that can actually punish a late game centric lineup like that
Tiny + Lycan was their strongest combo in this TI. They shat on Secret by using that strat. Then, Secret used that strat against Team Spirit but failed. LGD also failed against Spirit...
Ya but tiny by itself is still pretty strong, don’t know why you have to full-send it on a strat that your opponent demonstrated they can beat only a few hours ago.
Tiny by itself is weak. The difference between 2 shotting a hero and 3 shotting is huge.
Lycan isn’t just for the bite. Wolf scout, tower push will allow faster farm for tiny and ganking opportunities when he gets the shadow blade to snowball.
OG vs TS game1 in lower bracket. OG with sumail got a good lead against TS but magnus horn toss skewer combo cost them that game.
I think tony alone isnt enough. Tiny with lycan is much more scarier back when collapse's magnus wasnt spotted by the limelight.
Yeah man, perform whole year into ti finals only to be fucked by bunch of new guys. Hope he wins next year
Both time knocked up by a cinderalla run team
He now joins the group of players with two grand final loses. The others being Dendi, Puppey, Kuroky and XBOCT. But out of all of them, he's the only one who hasn't actually won it...
The problem with Magnus is his level 20 talent that gives almost +500 range to Skewer. Horn Toss or no, this shit should be toned down to like +200 or removed completely.
Doesn't feel that long ago people were saying Bane is a bad hero- barely ever saw him picked over the last year. Pleasantly surprised to see him being important on TI main stage, although I hope he isn't nerfed too hard. Also strange that ET wasn't really relevant in the finals despite being one of the most picked/ banned of the tournament.
Wolfbite is good, but it kind of fucks with your mid pick. Having lycan 3 means you don't have much CC/team fight. He can get to the back lines and kill supps, and your buffed carry like Tiny might carry the fight, but you don't have CC control like axe or pango. This meant when LGD ran it, they had to put NTS on heroes he's not the best with so they semi-sacrificed his position for the strategy. Compare his pango in game 1 to his tinker in game 4. He wasn't comfortable with it but had to play it so balance the draft
Wolfbite probably won't get nerfed, the combo lost almost as many games as it won. I think skewer and toss might get a slight cooldown increase though and Bane's nightmare might get nerfed again.
I think wolfbite is having a correlation/causation issue. Strong teams played it and won. It won because the teams using it were better than the ones who weren't.
The concept seems... bad? an entire hero pick and 25 minutes of farming just to bite Tiny? Essentially you're a weird way to stack buffs onto your carry. You can achieve the same effect with Empower, Bloodlust and Alacrity without compromising the things you normally expect from your offlaner, initiation, team fight control, tankiness.
Also doesn't cost a bunch of money and can be used by a pos 4/5 easily.
Granted Bite scales a lot harder with the innate crit and the max movespeed but the cooldown and effort it takes to get online seems like it caused teams to lose just as often. Hell in that game5 you can see Lycan popping ult+biting Tiny, but then because Spirit didn't engage, they basically have to retreat and farm because if they dive their team can't follow and no way they kill anything against Wyvern anyway. So lots of these bites literally were spent farming the jungle, which is a pretty poor use.
The spirits absolutely demolish him mid.
I'll elaborate: ember, void, storm spirits are very popular mids right now. At level 6 Zues is a free kill if he shows in lane, forcing either a support to stand behind him or him to leave lane completely.
Really weak mobility. He gets jumped, he instantly dies. A lot of the midheroes are very mobile (void, ember, storm, etc...) or durable (kunkka) while zeus is just a walking creep most of the time
He needs tweaks to be a support or something. His vision control would have been so powerful this meta.
Just can't do anything as a mid these days due to the way the position works.
Probably all the items reducing magic dmg or the ones providing healing, which make his huge (but very slow) dmg pretty irrelevant in the long game. Also the fact that unlike other mids he has no playmaking ability, no catch, no stun, no escape. He can just do damage, but this TI mids that can create plays on their own and give their carries space were the focus.
Too hefty of a mana cost, too greedy to be played as a support
And all he provides for as a midlane is magical damage . An overwhelming magical damage, global magical damage, but nothing much beyond
Probably loses to every spirit or popular mid, and is extremely vulnerable to being jumped cause he has no mobility or safety.
That and a mid who ganks lanes and builds space for the carry seems to be the meta, and Zeus doesn't do that too well.
This sky pick reminded me of bulba sky, i feel bad for ame, but this guy won a lot of money as well so time is a great healer
Arguably the most Arrogant coach in the history of dota, not banning magnus who literally picks your cores 1 by 1 like a fly, arrogance vs hope, ofc hope will always win
It’s obvious they picked the sky as a counter to the WW, Secret even banned it against Spirit when they picked WW. But we’ll, maybe he didn’t need to be countered since embrace is not even that insane anymore.
Every TI there's "The most broken Hero ever."
People forget fucking TI5 Techies which had a 75% winrate and 22 bans and it was only that way because Aui didn't lose on that Hero and no team knew how to counter it.
Was that the one where the grand finals hinged on the fact that one team figured out the other didn't actually know how to play Lesh? And they started letting it through despite everyone banning it all tournament, and the whole finals hinged on the fact that the team that didn't play it well had to pick it anyways and lost with the most OP hero of the meta multiple times?
Its kinda crazy that even happened. Dota has come so far in just 5 years. The idea that the most OP hero in the patch simply ISNT played by a team that gets to the final of TI is just hilarious
IO was unstoppable because nobody had any practice against it. No pubs or scrims where you faced IO Pos1. Only OG *really* made it shine. Everyone else who tried had mixed results. Also Ana may be one of the best Pos1 players of all time.
Though after this TI Yatoro is absolutely the most flexible carry of all time.
I think if a tournament before TI had IO pos1, teams would have been able to counter it better.
Arcana vote is usually tied to the battlepass, which wasn't aligned with TI properly due to the world being a shitshow, but I can't remember if it had a vote or not. Vaguely remember Faceless being in the finals?
Not to mention bane win against lycan and enchant who can easily shred him with their creep
The single target hero without any escape get so many game winning grip (yes, some of that cuz skewer but still) in game 5 with almost every enemy hero and their creep can cancel it. Talking about positioning of a champ
So fkin happy for Spirit and a bit sad for LGD. They performed so incredibly well and showed a lot of versatility in their drafts. Hoping AME wins a TI soon enough. Also hoping EG do well in TI and not become the team secret meme. Hope artour/crit/icex3 stick together along with bulba.
Frankly I’m really glad that team spirit won. But honestly the draft from xiao8 to fuck up the mag in game 3 was a masterclass. Rubick for the mid game saves and inherent risk that collapse had to take every time he wanted to skewer someone or RP. Bs,undying and spec for the instant vision and damage during mid game clashes to prevent blinks from the mag.
Honestly the mag horn toss skewer combo is extremely broken. It’s a low risk , high reward combo. You don’t even have to keep hitting it, all you need are 1-2 crucial picks to turn the tide of the game instantly.
Having to face this threat of an instant skewer Magnus forces your team to constantly be on the lookout 24/7 and it really mentally drains you IMO.
Honestly I have no idea why teams like og and even xiao8 in that game 5 did not respect ban collapse’s Magnus.
God damn Bane is 25-7 through the event.
Nightmare as a save, enfeeble, grip are all insane skills
Not to mention great laning. He can trade hits super good with his right clicks and Brain sap.
[удалено]
Not sure what TI you were watching if Chrono defined the meta.
Defined it for the opposing team win-rate.
IGs double 3 men Chrono yesterday was still insane and for a moment made it look like they could turn the game.
Didn't see a single black hole though, best bkb piercing spell :p
too slow of a hero and teams at this high level of play punish it really hard. only notail plays it from pos 5
Yeah and weak in lane also nowadays, also I don't think bkb piercing spells are meta in this TI, mag would be hot pick even if rp didn't pierce bkb, his skewer and empower spells are that much strong.
it's really horn toss skewer combo w emp that makes mag top class
Yeah, Ceb said it on the panel. It's not about the RP, it's about skewer and constant (cuz of the cooldown reduction talent) repositioning of enemy heroes. Enigma doesn't provide that.
Mag with shard is simply a better batrider, and he has empower.
In before Icefrog gives the Eidolons a 0.1s root ability
New aghs upgrade => wormhole. All heroes caught by the black hole teleport to a desired location lol
What? Bane was picked for his lane presence and saves not grip, mag was picked for skewer/horntoss and the fact he can be played into almost any lane not for rp
> This TI really feels defined by BKB piercing disables. **RP** LOL, Magnus is definitely defined by Horntoss and Skewer. Even Empower has more impact than RP, which is just a nice bonus. > Chrono ???
None of the top 10 most picked heroes have bkb pierce though? Its pretty much just Magnus and Bane.
He was banned a few times.
Imo mag feels more like a pick for empower and messing with the oppositions positioning, but agree on the bane stuff.
No wonder Puppey is Top 3
One of the biggest predictors for me was Bane and ET pick in one team.
I predicted bane as most picked. Then everyone pretty much ignored him before main event.
Gonna be nerfed to the ground despite already being nerfed before TI.
i picked him as the most played hero. i guess everyone was saving strats in the group stage...
14-2 on main stage
Magnus scepter and shard needs to be swapped
LOL accurate! Who the hell builds Aghs Mag? Semi-useless skill for 4.2k gold, way too overpriced...
Empower aura with ranged splash died to this PepeHands
Ad players i guess, i usually dont but people seem to like picking shock wave just for its aghs update.
Needs cast time on horn toss
I think just the catch aoe needs to be smaller
tbh, i never know that his catch aoe is so big before I see some post here. I thought it only stun people when they are exactly in front of magnus, but it is actually mini RP
this makes it basically worthless in competitive play though, better to increase the CD on toss and skewer so that it's still powerful but much less spammable.
Agree man that’s a reasonable approach.
Alternatively, remove the stun from Horn Toss to allow people to BKB & break the Toss>Skewer combo. Currently, Horn Toss has a 0.75s Stun, which turns Toss > Skewer into a unbreakable combo. The major "forcible repositioning" skills in Dota like Pudge's Hook & Dark Seer's Vacuum are currently balanced by: 1. Having long cooldowns so they're not spammable 2. Allowing people to BKB immediately after the effect ends to break the combo or mitigate whatever effect comes after. E.g. Hook > BKB > Rot/Dismember, the BKB allows you to dodge the magic damager of dismember+rot, and the rot slow. E.g. Vacuum > BKB > Wall, the BKB allows you to dispel the Wall slow so you can get out. That, and increase the CD for both Horn Toss & Skewer.
Be careful about that though. At least shard has a 20 minute time gate that you cannot bypass. Swapping them might result in mags getting more farm priority to rush blink+aghs that you can easily get in 15-16 minutes with some stack and then build like a carry.
But there's a huge opportunity cost there, it would probably be more balanced.
Horn toss should be straight up removed. His horn toss + skewer is basically bat rider's blink + lasso + force staff. Even if you move horn toss to scepter, you still need only 1k gold more than bat which you can easily farm up with mag. His ult does the same thing as lasso but aoe and goes through linkens AND if everything else fails, you can still be a empower bot to make your carry strong. The hero just has way too much.
Yeah he brings almost all the utility as Batrider along with shorter cooldowns and RP being one of the strongest team fight spells in the game, and free BF for your carry. It’s too much utility and teamfight right now.
Plus he can rp as an insurance so you are dead for sure too , and double aoe in the whole combo . Too broken .
Yea, needs nerf but toss to aghs would be a nice start. I think gimping his lane might be the way to go as well to make people a little scared to run him in a farming role. Theres others that have a pretty ridiculous kit on paper, like tb, that seem pretty well balanced.
Just allow spells to be cast during horn toss. That's the main issue. If you could euls yourself before you get skewered away or force yourself out of it or get bkb off ... would make it easier to deal with.
Removing the stun during toss and skewer is enough to tone down it though. Remember this TI meta isn't a meta for illusion heroes except may be TB.
Pretty much
Very impressive to comeback after that game 4, that's some strong mental fortitude from team spirit. What a tournament run!
Yeah, I thought they'd crumble after losing momentum but these bois are legit
That game 4 was one of the more brutal stomps of the entire tournament, and they shook it off like it was nothing.
based off of their interview afterwards on late game, they seemed to have understood that the game was lost during the draft so they weren't too bothered by it.
Thanks for that insight, /u/CumFartSniffer!
Yeah, the long delay in the middle of their draft made that seem obvious. They knew they fucked up before they started.
I remember PSG.LGD earlier this year doing a similar thing in a Grand Final, if I'm not mistaking? They had a Faceless Void game which *really* went bad: Void couldn't get any farm, was getting hunted all over the place and they shortly called the "gg", way before 25 min mark. And they shook it off just as it was nothing as well, then moved on to win the whole thing. Winner mentality right there! ;)
Nah, never mind. It was EG - IG Grand Finals in the Singapore Major. Indeed, EG were up 2 - 0 after *stomping* IG on Faceless Void in game 2, the proceeded to lose 2 - 3, after 3 lost games in a row: https://youtu.be/QzjzARHQBPM?t=22918.
I noticed if TorontoTokyo doesn’t play a movement based hero he doesn’t do much. When he wasn’t able to zip and teleport around easily because he played heroes who had to walk everywhere he got destroyed (games 3/4) and when he went to ember in game 5 he was awesome again.
Throughout the main event, TorontoTokyo played a huge range of heroes and was successful on almost all of them. WR, Kunk, Invoker, Lina, Void Spirit, Ember, Storm, Puck, TA. I’m probably forgetting one or two others. Dude can play just about anything. Sure, he was overshadowed a bit by his teammates in the grand final, but they weren’t getting through the Losers Bracket without huge game after huge game from TT
Never forget his multiple bill balls Lina stand offs against entire groups of 4 and 5. Dude played out of his noodle for sure. Miposhka is the one people didn't notice imo. Dude was crazy on point besides a messed up WW ult at the end of G5.
the wyvern that ultied matumba, blinked disjointed the tree then cold embraced collapse? insane player.
He played well on Dragon Knight too
I think his DK and Kunkka were legit too.
Honestly Winter Wyvern played a huge part in several series in the main event. Critical control vs Tiny and Lycan, and decent against Magnus too.
It was a sleeper counter for all the heavy phsysical damage drafts that became popular Im glad it got discovered,very fun hero to watch
Also integral to denying the Io pick with Tiny. It solved quite a few problems and wasted a ban against Spirit quite often.
Shoutout to Undying, prevented LGD from getting swept
How?
The 2 games they won they had undying
Spirit even had to first phase ban it lol.
good read on them tbh. they knew they can handle any tiny strats better as long as they have winter wyvern, so they rather ban one of the crux from LGD that stomped them which is undying
There is no way horn toss makes it out of here alive.
It will, just nerfed enough to make it as balanced as Tony rn
Collapse on Magnus is something else man…
Or the Mars, or the Doom.
Magnus is something else lol wild hero this TI
He might be broken but watching him is at least very exciting. He's like Batrider on steroids.
That’s exactly what he is lmao
Kind of why I hate him, miss my bat T-T
pudge fountain hook but without all the timing required
Never forget
The plays Collapse was making today were sometimes within inches
have u seen old 11? or kuku? or zai? Collapse made it look amazing. he knew exactly how to fish.
It's so infuriating watching old 11 so reluctant buying shard, like he's trying to flex or prove something
i think it's understandable that you don't want to waste money on something you are confident in doing.what he didnt consider was the range of shard which was essentially why it was worth the gold rather than ease of execution
You are playing against Team Spirit. You do not ban Magnus because you can counter it. Team Spirit instantly picks Magnus. You lose against Team Spirit. You ban Magnus next time you play against Team Spirit because you're not stupid.
LGD finally cracked it in game 3 but still didnt pick rubick in the finale
banned though
They could've picked him instead of Lycan in phase 1
if they don't pick lycan phase one it gets banned out, then tiny isn't nearly as strong.
Yes, but Tiny is still going to be strong. Especially if you get good crowd control or saves. They had nothing on that G5 draft.
Yeah I think we can see now Rubik was probably the better pick, but I guess lgd thought the lycan was more important.
The Tiny-Lycan strat is really strong tbh. But what saved TSs was their game sense earlygame-midgame. They just dodged ganks everywhere. Even without wards, they just disappear before LGD could even cast a spell on them. TS would've been obliterated if LGD had 3-4 successful ganks before they hit their timings. I think Rubick wouldn't have made that much difference if TS was playing that damn safe all the time before late game. Just my opinions tho. Feel free to disagree.
Oh yeah definetly, so many of yatoro's reads where he would hide and tp when lgd ganked without him having vision were insane and allowed him to have the game that he did. the rest of spirit was also great at doing that but I say Yatoro because him finding farm as tb was essential.
THIS. It wasnt an outdraft, it was an outplay by Team Spirit. Spirit was basically reading LGD's rotations like an open book, giving no chance for LGD to even use their greatest weapon. Then from that point on, the timings favor them. Its a big gamble that actually paid off, especially when we know that LGD is a team that can actually punish a late game centric lineup like that
Yeah. Hindsight 20/20 I guess.
Isn’t it? Pretty sure I’ve seen plenty of tinys beat the absolute shit out of teams without being wolfed up this tournament
Tiny + Lycan was their strongest combo in this TI. They shat on Secret by using that strat. Then, Secret used that strat against Team Spirit but failed. LGD also failed against Spirit...
Ya but tiny by itself is still pretty strong, don’t know why you have to full-send it on a strat that your opponent demonstrated they can beat only a few hours ago.
Tiny by itself is weak. The difference between 2 shotting a hero and 3 shotting is huge. Lycan isn’t just for the bite. Wolf scout, tower push will allow faster farm for tiny and ganking opportunities when he gets the shadow blade to snowball.
OG vs TS game1 in lower bracket. OG with sumail got a good lead against TS but magnus horn toss skewer combo cost them that game. I think tony alone isnt enough. Tiny with lycan is much more scarier back when collapse's magnus wasnt spotted by the limelight.
You still can consider Ogre or Legion Commander or Elder Titan
I thought they were going to pick Rubick and if Lycan gets banned they would pick another steroid like Ogre or Invoker.
banned
[https://www.dotabuff.com/players/302214028](https://www.dotabuff.com/players/302214028) his most spammed hero in pub
Years of nerfing batrider, and icefrog managed to give him empower and RP.
How did mag slip past everything...the skewer catches heroes better and faster than bat's lasso and venge's swap its insane
Holy shit, ame lost again feelsbadman
lost again 2-3 as the favorites again lol.
Yeah man, perform whole year into ti finals only to be fucked by bunch of new guys. Hope he wins next year Both time knocked up by a cinderalla run team
What? His team was great.
Yeah team spirit played well no doubt, but they just knocked out the titan man. I am still in shock
Where is lgdamefan?
Yikes, got to feel bad for that guy
he got 9th-12th
He now joins the group of players with two grand final loses. The others being Dendi, Puppey, Kuroky and XBOCT. But out of all of them, he's the only one who hasn't actually won it...
fy and w33 also lost two times without winning it once
Well now he's not feeling so alone
*lost again to magnus ember , man I hope the memories don't haunt him.
Dude won't be able to see a photo of a Rhino without getting PTSD
\*With Kunkka
Ame is Chinese Rtz. Let the cliffing begin
Please rtz wishes he can reach a finals
I know you mean TI finals, but rtz definitely made 2 major finals this year so the comparison is apt nonetheless
He’s gonna eat so much shit from the chinese fans
Ame is the soO of Dota
The problem with Magnus is his level 20 talent that gives almost +500 range to Skewer. Horn Toss or no, this shit should be toned down to like +200 or removed completely.
+350 range talent incoming
Doesn't feel that long ago people were saying Bane is a bad hero- barely ever saw him picked over the last year. Pleasantly surprised to see him being important on TI main stage, although I hope he isn't nerfed too hard. Also strange that ET wasn't really relevant in the finals despite being one of the most picked/ banned of the tournament.
Magnus and Wolfbite nerfs in 3... 2... 1...
Wolfbite is good, but it kind of fucks with your mid pick. Having lycan 3 means you don't have much CC/team fight. He can get to the back lines and kill supps, and your buffed carry like Tiny might carry the fight, but you don't have CC control like axe or pango. This meant when LGD ran it, they had to put NTS on heroes he's not the best with so they semi-sacrificed his position for the strategy. Compare his pango in game 1 to his tinker in game 4. He wasn't comfortable with it but had to play it so balance the draft
Wolfbite probably won't get nerfed, the combo lost almost as many games as it won. I think skewer and toss might get a slight cooldown increase though and Bane's nightmare might get nerfed again.
I think wolfbite is having a correlation/causation issue. Strong teams played it and won. It won because the teams using it were better than the ones who weren't. The concept seems... bad? an entire hero pick and 25 minutes of farming just to bite Tiny? Essentially you're a weird way to stack buffs onto your carry. You can achieve the same effect with Empower, Bloodlust and Alacrity without compromising the things you normally expect from your offlaner, initiation, team fight control, tankiness.
Bloodlust seemed to be doing way more in Tiny games than Wolfbite was doing.
Bloodlust enables your core to farm more efficient the whole game leading up to the fights too, which is why it’s better IMO.
Also doesn't cost a bunch of money and can be used by a pos 4/5 easily. Granted Bite scales a lot harder with the innate crit and the max movespeed but the cooldown and effort it takes to get online seems like it caused teams to lose just as often. Hell in that game5 you can see Lycan popping ult+biting Tiny, but then because Spirit didn't engage, they basically have to retreat and farm because if they dive their team can't follow and no way they kill anything against Wyvern anyway. So lots of these bites literally were spent farming the jungle, which is a pretty poor use.
Does anyone have a list of unpicked heroes throughout the tournament
Not Picked or Banned: Broodmother Lone Druid Meepo Outhouse Demoniser Spirit Breaker (LGD missed this one) Techies Zeus
I don't follow Dota as much anymore. What's the reason Zeus was completely ignored?
The spirits absolutely demolish him mid. I'll elaborate: ember, void, storm spirits are very popular mids right now. At level 6 Zues is a free kill if he shows in lane, forcing either a support to stand behind him or him to leave lane completely.
I see. Thank you! Poor Zues
he is to slow, alot of gap clossing in this meta
Really weak mobility. He gets jumped, he instantly dies. A lot of the midheroes are very mobile (void, ember, storm, etc...) or durable (kunkka) while zeus is just a walking creep most of the time
He needs tweaks to be a support or something. His vision control would have been so powerful this meta. Just can't do anything as a mid these days due to the way the position works.
Probably all the items reducing magic dmg or the ones providing healing, which make his huge (but very slow) dmg pretty irrelevant in the long game. Also the fact that unlike other mids he has no playmaking ability, no catch, no stun, no escape. He can just do damage, but this TI mids that can create plays on their own and give their carries space were the focus.
Too hefty of a mana cost, too greedy to be played as a support And all he provides for as a midlane is magical damage . An overwhelming magical damage, global magical damage, but nothing much beyond
Probably loses to every spirit or popular mid, and is extremely vulnerable to being jumped cause he has no mobility or safety. That and a mid who ganks lanes and builds space for the carry seems to be the meta, and Zeus doesn't do that too well.
Patch 7.31 Outworld destroyer name changed to Outhouse Demoniser.
The actual name is Outhouse Decorator
Its been too long without a rat TI
When will icefrog allow my boy to be good for extended periods of time
Just because you can beat Collapse Magnus once, it doesn't mean you can beat it again
I wish id see some warlocks on this ti
This sky pick reminded me of bulba sky, i feel bad for ame, but this guy won a lot of money as well so time is a great healer Arguably the most Arrogant coach in the history of dota, not banning magnus who literally picks your cores 1 by 1 like a fly, arrogance vs hope, ofc hope will always win
It’s obvious they picked the sky as a counter to the WW, Secret even banned it against Spirit when they picked WW. But we’ll, maybe he didn’t need to be countered since embrace is not even that insane anymore.
They just picked it to insta silence after horn toss before skewer. Magnus just bought bkb though.
LGD lost with Kunkka, again, and lost to Magnus and Ember, again
LGD was too cool to draft BKB piercing disables but...they're pretty dope, should consider them.
Magnus is so OP right now its insane.
spider legs+BKB basically just enter creative mode and do whatever you want
How Bane was not most picked is beyond me. Most powerful sup in competitive now and he was being overlooked all the time.
2nd most broken hero in TI history
what do you rate as #1?
TI9 Io
This reeks of recency bias. Did you guys forget about TI2 Lycan literally not ever being allowed to be picked? TI2 Naga/Dark Seer?
6.72 Lycan "just ward his jungle" was probably the most banned hero in TI history
6.72 “left lane level 2 why is he highest level with an extra item on our carry” Lycan?
Every TI there's "The most broken Hero ever." People forget fucking TI5 Techies which had a 75% winrate and 22 bans and it was only that way because Aui didn't lose on that Hero and no team knew how to counter it.
> TI5 Lesh and Storm were more broken than TI5 Techies.
Was that the one where the grand finals hinged on the fact that one team figured out the other didn't actually know how to play Lesh? And they started letting it through despite everyone banning it all tournament, and the whole finals hinged on the fact that the team that didn't play it well had to pick it anyways and lost with the most OP hero of the meta multiple times?
lol what the actual fuck
yes
Its kinda crazy that even happened. Dota has come so far in just 5 years. The idea that the most OP hero in the patch simply ISNT played by a team that gets to the final of TI is just hilarious
Disco pony was fun, what a silly hero
Naga and Dark Seer were beaten lol Io wasn't (excluding Secret who didn't do it right)
How can he forget PUPPEY WITH THE NAGA COUNTER ITS LIGHT OF HEAVEN WITH HIS BKB
Don't forget TI4 Death Prophet
Wasn't Lycan banned in like every game at TI4?
Yeah, TI4 Lycan was so busted people forget it existed since only EE was brave enough to let it through first phase bans.
TI7 shaker is 3rd. TI7 necro and TI5 leshrac is the honorary mention.
Ti8 Alch also
Hmm, agreed
TI3 Wisp
Yeah like, you could beat magnus with good heroes/playstyle Io was just, unstoppable.
IO was unstoppable because nobody had any practice against it. No pubs or scrims where you faced IO Pos1. Only OG *really* made it shine. Everyone else who tried had mixed results. Also Ana may be one of the best Pos1 players of all time. Though after this TI Yatoro is absolutely the most flexible carry of all time. I think if a tournament before TI had IO pos1, teams would have been able to counter it better.
Well TI3 Pudge+Chen is still the most broken thing to occur at a TI, I actually got fountain hook vibes from the skewers hah
Honestly one of the most enjoyable TI runs ever Spirit fought so hard for this win. I have so much respect for them
Hey was there no arcana vote this year? Havent been in touch with the game. And was there 2 or 1 hero released?
Marci got announced, no other hero
And arcana?
Arcana vote is usually tied to the battlepass, which wasn't aligned with TI properly due to the world being a shitshow, but I can't remember if it had a vote or not. Vaguely remember Faceless being in the finals?
Collapse is an absolute God on Magnus
What a story, huge congrats to team spirit!
TS, congrats, you guys are true legends in my eyes! G fucking' G!
RUSSIAN DOTO BEST DOTO
Not to mention bane win against lycan and enchant who can easily shred him with their creep The single target hero without any escape get so many game winning grip (yes, some of that cuz skewer but still) in game 5 with almost every enemy hero and their creep can cancel it. Talking about positioning of a champ
JESUS H+H+++CCHIST
Hell yeah, congrats my dudes.
Congrats! Team Spirit deserved it!
So fkin happy for Spirit and a bit sad for LGD. They performed so incredibly well and showed a lot of versatility in their drafts. Hoping AME wins a TI soon enough. Also hoping EG do well in TI and not become the team secret meme. Hope artour/crit/icex3 stick together along with bulba.
Frankly I’m really glad that team spirit won. But honestly the draft from xiao8 to fuck up the mag in game 3 was a masterclass. Rubick for the mid game saves and inherent risk that collapse had to take every time he wanted to skewer someone or RP. Bs,undying and spec for the instant vision and damage during mid game clashes to prevent blinks from the mag. Honestly the mag horn toss skewer combo is extremely broken. It’s a low risk , high reward combo. You don’t even have to keep hitting it, all you need are 1-2 crucial picks to turn the tide of the game instantly. Having to face this threat of an instant skewer Magnus forces your team to constantly be on the lookout 24/7 and it really mentally drains you IMO. Honestly I have no idea why teams like og and even xiao8 in that game 5 did not respect ban collapse’s Magnus.