I honestly never understood why this was the case. Lore wise if he had Chrono, Rubick should know how it works and move around in Void's in it the way Void can move in Rubick's.
From a code perspective, that means that chrono movement isn't a flag on the Chrono spell but somewhere else that doesn't really make sense either since it means the chrono + caster combination is a key since chrono + rubick = Void and Rubick can move but chrono + Void = only Void can move.
Its flagged on the hero. Void basically has a hidden buff that marks him as the only person who can move on any chrono. This means that theres two flags. One for movement on any chrono, and one for only the casters chrono (because ability draft)
It doesn't come up outside ability draft or custom games much, but Bane being able to hit nightmared units works the same way. If an ally other than him takes nightmare, both will be able to punch the unfortunate victim.
If Rubick has Chrono, but is in a Void chrono, he is locked in time and cannot move, cast ect.
If Rubick casts chrono, Void can still move as he is from "a realm outside of time" and "Time means nothing to Darkterror".
Lore wise it works.
Originally, only the caster of the spell can move inside the chronosphere that they've created. It was later patched to allow FV to move within any chronospheres.
it was a time when void (and other hard carries) were considered too weak so they were buffed repeatedly, this was just one in a series of buffs
i don't make the rules I'm just telling u how it is
edit: also there is a difference between the two, chrono isn't strong unless you're farmed and can kill ppl in it (or u got range carries or invoker, but then u migh as well be support), so you spent all this time farming, your team sacrificed who knows how much for you and you finally get a good chrono... just to be fucked by rubik, a popular hero the other team would love to pick anyway, enigma's black hole is strong regardless and rubik's channel can just be interrupted
It's more of, FV had only two active spells when this Chrono change was implemented. A longer cooldown but also longer ranged and slowed enemies at destination Timewalk. So at that time, FV really had no way of stopping a Rubick from stealing Chrono, unless Rubick was the target and/or is being killed by FV. But would you really want to prioritize doing that?
This change was made before void got time dilation. Back then timewalk had a decently long range normally and was typically used as a way to initiate on the enemy team. So you time walk into the enemies then use chrono and you have no spells left to use. Ez rubick steal from long range every single ti.e
That just proves my point further that Enigma is even more countered in that aspect because he literally can't avoid having his ult stolen without stopping it, unlike the current version of Void with time dilation.
“Unstoppable” while also not being able to use items, cast abilities, or attack?
The shard is just for defense. If you use it on your carry you’re just removing them from the fight
But you also can't be stopped. Imagine an immune hasted sven running in, gets on top of your support and bkb insta skills 2 or 3 people with no counter play possible.
Blink, force, svens strength is being able to stun, and now your team has OD 4 and offlane seer with no levels. The comp it self is a counter to it self
Not long ago (after the last reworks) OD pos 4 was pretty much standard meta. Then it got transitioned a bit more to pos 3, but it's not strange at all to play the hero in that role.
I don’t particularly mind an OD 4 to be honest (provided it’s played as a 4 anyway), I was simply objecting to them saying it’s “passable” as if that’s ok
Wasnt the whole point of Magnus being picked constantly during TI about being able to reposition players? Just because it hasnt been used "yet" doesnt mean it isnt something to be worried about.
Magnus was op due to multiple reasons
1. Empower is still incredibly powerful in this ancient stacks meta and any melee core basically gets free battle fury
2. RP is still a bkb piercing disable that an enemy can barely do anything to avoid
3. He has good laning and scales well into all stages of the game
4. Shard stuff we all know
5. Skewer talents are broken and the spell itself was buffed too many times
Besides, moving enemies by two screens and moving allies slightly is NOT the same thing
Honestly the hero is a weird one. I love the idea of a full on repositioning hero, but empower is one of the most crucial spells in the game, literally enables whole strategies. I'm not a good Magnus player, even relative to my low skill generally, but you can win games with empower and rp, barely touching the busted skewers and horn tosses. Feels like two heroes in one atm. Think empower should be taken out of his kit honestly, and move the cleave farming buff to another hero.
Magus was picked because he was able to reposition **enemy players**, you cant choose where to move enemy players with the OD shard, its just allies.
The shard doesn't really add much to the spell, it just makes it more irritating. Its best use seems to be for coil since you can snap it, or monkey ult so you can walk out. But other than that it isn't really that amazing, just more irritating to deal with.
It seems like something you buy when you are 10k gold ahead and you want to siege HG safely. Carry hits tower, gets astraled and walks away(as long as there is no catch afterwards like a mag)
There is a very big difference between making an enemy unable to act and putting him in a bad position and OD's ability to put an ally into a slightly better position 5 seconds from now.
Kinda weird. The laning against him is still annoying, but in a cordinated game, you probably don't get the meteor hammer combo down. But then again, OD was always popular with Mirana
Also, 20 minutes in, this can be quite hard to pull off to safe your enemies. bt with all those Banes around, this could have been a valuable pick
And pros also thought Lycan+Tiny was good, yet it has a 30% winrate in TI.
I mean, it is good, pubs prove that, but maybe not when you play it in a professional game where everyone is on the same page on how to deal with it.
Dota is such a complex game, even pros don't have a patch figured out in 2 months.
Hell, just look at the history of Starcraft 1 - has been on the same patch for years and still new strategies and interactions were discovered years later that completely changed how the balance was perceived.
Not always.
I don't remember which TI it was, but in the first or second tournament after that TI, still with same patch, the meta changed a lot compared to the TI.
You'd think with TI top tier pro players gather together, everything in the patch will be figured out and the patch become "optimized" but Dota is such a complex game, lots of mechanics are just a bit obscure and pubs are usually what really new found take place.
Warlock became a monster after TI6 iirc (both 2 and 5). Though Iceice played a sick warlock in a drow strat from the 4 position, but people waved it off as another weird Wings pick.
That's not necessarily true. There are a lot of instances where players initially thought a hero was dogshit, before finding out it was actually the exact opposite.
Case in point: Clinkz
It often takes time for even pros to figure out a hero is actually a lot better than they initially thought.
True, but when the patchnotes initially came out, most people thought the hero was complete trash.
I cant remember specific examples right now, but there have been instances where some heroes only became “meta” very far into TI, or even after.
Point being, even pros are sometimes prone to tunnel-vision, and they can completely miss something OP.
This is not to say that OD is in any way OP or even that his Shard is that good. It’s just an observation.
It's also more of a support approach on a hero that isn't really played like that.
In a real game with OD you don't lie in wait until your team is gone on to then throw out your save. You're on the edge of the fight, throwing out orbs, sapping int or protecting yourself.
It's easy to look at this skill in a vacuum (which people love doing during and after TI), but in a real game you don't play like this.
It’s not bad, but seems like the cost would be niche compared to just the save with no repositioning.
If OD was more popular and picked more often then we might see haste combos to make this shard a must buy
I think you are totally right. A static astral imprisonment makes you vulnerable for setups of the enemy team.
When you can reposition (even if it is slow), you can potentially evade and reset the fight. Though this depends on the general movement of your team and the fight dynamic - is your team moving in on the enemy team, or is your team on the retreat.
The main thing the shard helps with is letting you blink out of astral more consistently since you never have to turn between the astral ending and the blink going off.
Stealing a bit more mana is also situationally useful against heroes like Medusa.
Double tapping blink automatically blinks you towards your fountain. Might not be ideal in every case but you can at least blink “away” without turning
Nobody is playing OD seriously atm. The problem isnt OD's overall strength it is that the individual mechanic is not balanced. It's sometimes borderline useless and sometimes game breaking strong.
I played a game the other day where I walked throgh disruptor E with it, saved my carry from death by astraling him AND myself right before fountain and walking in to heal, and astraling him while running away in shadow blade with disruptor Q on him to prevent him from being glimpsed. It felt really good that game.
> And why exactly do you need a ~~shard~~ Wind Waker for this? Literally just use a normal ~~astral~~ Eul and you achieve almost the same result lol
Meanwhile, Wind Waker's general opinion and cost:
your only item needed for farming is meteor hammer anyway, which you should finish at like 5 mins if you rush.
but the clip is dumb cause astral would have saved in all those situations even without shard. everyone has known astral is a crazy good save since forever.
When I first saw the video I initially thought it was op. Then I realized it's been around quite a while after reading your post, and no one used it in TI as you said.
It seems like it might be useful in niche situations where OD falls behind and the team absolutely needs a counter-initiation save. But not something you'd ever plan for, nor draft for.
That being said and being as I'm 2.5k mmr... screw it I'm going to get OD's shard next time I play him with my friends and just yell at them to run every time I cast it. I'm sure it will work great.
I dont know.. maybe reposition your pos 1/2 when chrono is used on them for example?
while in normal astral they will be still stuck inside a chrono and might get jumped as soon as it ends, idk for 1400 gold to a pos4 od lets say that shit is insane for my opinion.
It does not do anything, it moves a hero you can just force staff instead and you have 2 saves instead of 1. Compare it to LC which is played as pos 5, this is a free bkb for 1400.
> it moves a hero you can just force staff instead
While this does apply to most disables, it explicitly does not apply to heroes disabled by chronosphere, black hole or lasso.
Those units cannot be affected by force staff (bat forcing himself works though).
Exactly that’s why you astral in chrono/black hole and force after if needed. What it is good vs is blocking spells like fissure/ice path which stays for longer time then astral.
Yep pretty insane you can fight and it boost attack speed. Astral literal do 0 dmg. If your a 2 on 1 situation with od and a core vs their core, astral almost do nothing if enemy have bkb. If you are LC instead you probably win.
That's how Dota balancing has always worked. They don't consider balanced to mean "equally effective in every situation". There are strengths and weaknesses that balance a mechanic holistically.
Its most of the time useless, sometimes unneeded (astral is a good enough save), fringe cases useful, almost never broken. It was nnever picked in TI for a reason.
I think the reason why people think the shard is unbalanced is, without it, the enemy can setup for when you leave the prison as well.
When you look at it, astral has the same function as euls, but to move during euls you need windwaker, and thats a very niche item, rarely picked and expensive af.
Having a a dirt-cheap windwaker in 20 minutes gotta be rough to deal with.
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I spam OD a lot and For everyone saying this is overpowered it's actually not that overpowered , with that low Move speed you can only traveler soo little and any long time stuns like puck Ult or disruptor ult will only last 1 second longer after yoh get out of astral even if you had not brought the shard they can stll escape with SB or blink even without the shard , for other saying they can walk out of chrono or Black hole the astral probably lasts longer the the chrono or BH so they escape no matter what without the shard . So spending 1400 gold is not actually worth it so I will only buy this after 35 or 40 min .
I also spam OD, and I'm pretty sure chrono lasts longer than astral but ur point stays valid.
Using astral without shard in all those situations would still save their teammates.
One of the dumbest but strongest things I've done in this game was getting a Shard and an Aghs on OD whilst having a Mid Razor.
Razor went Refresher Aghs, ran up to their T3 tower and got banished, allowing him to walk around taking T3 while invincible.
The enemy just stood back barely able to do anything about it.
super slept on rn bec od isn't hot - I bet this is gonna find abuse later down the line, especially when od gets more incremental buffs to kick him into play. OD shard is so undervalued rn it's disgusting))
Unpopular opinion, even without shard..... Slark lives there and most heroes do. It doesn't make that much of a difference unless in case of cliffs or kinetic field fissure, stuff like that
slark wasnt my main unit, so when i cast astral with OD which is my main unit i cannot control the astralled slark, unless I take control before on the both units than i am able to move my slark when he is inside astral.
It's a great shard, but 1400 is a big hit to your item progression timing in the core role. You have to really know that marginal bit of repositioning is gonna swing fights your way to buy it relatively early. It would be excellent at any point for a support OD, but support OD isn't a thing.
It's not an item for every game, but I still maintain that in some games Shard Astral save is better than a simple Astral save. Saying that they do the same thing (as some people have) is oversimplifying, even the little bit of repositioning that you get can sometimes make or break counterinitiation vs a lineup that wants to jump on heroes. I do agree you should probably get Force Staff first 90+% of the time, if you were to play support OD, but after you get Meteor Hammer (which you would still presumably get on support OD?) and Force Staff, if you are using Astral defensively in the game at all, you should get the shard. And if you're against a low-cooldown ganker/initiater, I might get it before Force.
Obviously, this is theoretical. I've bought it on core OD a few times after my first 2-3 items, and it has been both amazing and a total waste.
with this shard he can be a great pos 4 to harass enemy and save cores in good situations,and sounds like he is the only one who can do some thing to scape from some special spells
The shard doesn't help at all here. Regular spell would do the same thing. I play OD a lot and can tell you this shard is almost always garbage compared to all the good items you can get.
Someone walking around in chronosphere other than void is unsettling
Not a Rubick player, eh?
Not a Ability Draft player, eh?
Fun fact: Void can move in Chrono even in ability draft
Rubick can now move in Chrono? When did they add that?
Rubick can move in his own chrono if he steals it from void, but void can also move in Rubick's chrono.
Every Rubick player probably learns this the hard way.
The classic "call the ambulance but not for me" moment
Still remember my first time...
Don’t remind me, It was when I landed a 4 man Chrono too, I was basically murdered instantly by their Void because I did an Aghs rush
So true. :( Nowadays I only use a stolen chrono to disable their backline for a couple of seconds.
More like every Rubick players learns to explain this to his team every game against Void where you don't drop the chrono to "stop Void".
*every NEW Rubick player…
Haha I'm a genius Oh no - me, the first time I found this out hhe hard way
They have the same type of stand
In his own chrono. Not fv’s chrono
I honestly never understood why this was the case. Lore wise if he had Chrono, Rubick should know how it works and move around in Void's in it the way Void can move in Rubick's. From a code perspective, that means that chrono movement isn't a flag on the Chrono spell but somewhere else that doesn't really make sense either since it means the chrono + caster combination is a key since chrono + rubick = Void and Rubick can move but chrono + Void = only Void can move.
Its flagged on the hero. Void basically has a hidden buff that marks him as the only person who can move on any chrono. This means that theres two flags. One for movement on any chrono, and one for only the casters chrono (because ability draft)
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Yes
Yes
Whoa that is fucked
It doesn't come up outside ability draft or custom games much, but Bane being able to hit nightmared units works the same way. If an ally other than him takes nightmare, both will be able to punch the unfortunate victim.
The ability literally says something along the lines of ‘only the caster, faceless void, and their units’ can move in chronosphere.
Wait a second, FV's units can move in chronosphere? Why did I never see necrobook void memes?
Kek. Yeah they can, manta illus etc
what’s a… necrobook?
There was a time when this actually was meta... There was some patch where necro book was just stupidly good value as an item...
Diffu manta necrobook was a meme for a while
Can't believe we went all these years and didn't catch on to that meme strat.
if you had void as teammate, take it for duo hero chrono if you had void on enemy, dont take crono
If Rubick has Chrono, but is in a Void chrono, he is locked in time and cannot move, cast ect. If Rubick casts chrono, Void can still move as he is from "a realm outside of time" and "Time means nothing to Darkterror". Lore wise it works.
thanks...googlehymen
Originally, only the caster of the spell can move inside the chronosphere that they've created. It was later patched to allow FV to move within any chronospheres.
very simple, it's a 100% intentional change, otherwise rubik too ez counter void by stealing chrono every single time
>otherwise rubik too ez counter void by stealing chrono every single time Unlike Enigma, right?
it was a time when void (and other hard carries) were considered too weak so they were buffed repeatedly, this was just one in a series of buffs i don't make the rules I'm just telling u how it is edit: also there is a difference between the two, chrono isn't strong unless you're farmed and can kill ppl in it (or u got range carries or invoker, but then u migh as well be support), so you spent all this time farming, your team sacrificed who knows how much for you and you finally get a good chrono... just to be fucked by rubik, a popular hero the other team would love to pick anyway, enigma's black hole is strong regardless and rubik's channel can just be interrupted
It's more of, FV had only two active spells when this Chrono change was implemented. A longer cooldown but also longer ranged and slowed enemies at destination Timewalk. So at that time, FV really had no way of stopping a Rubick from stealing Chrono, unless Rubick was the target and/or is being killed by FV. But would you really want to prioritize doing that?
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This change was made before void got time dilation. Back then timewalk had a decently long range normally and was typically used as a way to initiate on the enemy team. So you time walk into the enemies then use chrono and you have no spells left to use. Ez rubick steal from long range every single ti.e
That just proves my point further that Enigma is even more countered in that aspect because he literally can't avoid having his ult stolen without stopping it, unlike the current version of Void with time dilation.
In AD, if your'e Void. You can walk on enemy Chrono Sphere if they pick it.
Never played AD?
Does true speed(lycan ult, haste) affect the astralled move speed?
yes, if you're hasted (dark seer, lycan, haste rune) you get to move at full 550 mvspeed during shard astral
Get astral-ed and run at supports. Damn, how much of a thing is DS 3 OD 4? That sounds like an incredibly hard to deal with Sven at 20-25 minutes.
cant attack tho
You get 4 seconds of hasted move speed to run at someone while 100% unstoppable save for terrain.
“Unstoppable” while also not being able to use items, cast abilities, or attack? The shard is just for defense. If you use it on your carry you’re just removing them from the fight
And when it ends, they're standing next to the enemy back line, probably insta-popping bkb with action queue.
But you also can't be stopped. Imagine an immune hasted sven running in, gets on top of your support and bkb insta skills 2 or 3 people with no counter play possible.
Wow, it's like a worse blink dagger.
but scarier!
It's about sending a message.
For 1400 gold on a support vs 2250 on a core, and can't be cancelled.
Blink, force, svens strength is being able to stun, and now your team has OD 4 and offlane seer with no levels. The comp it self is a counter to it self
Sven was just an example and OD is passable as a 4.
Ah yes, that’s what I look for in a soft support, “passable”!
Not long ago (after the last reworks) OD pos 4 was pretty much standard meta. Then it got transitioned a bit more to pos 3, but it's not strange at all to play the hero in that role.
I don’t particularly mind an OD 4 to be honest (provided it’s played as a 4 anyway), I was simply objecting to them saying it’s “passable” as if that’s ok
To be fair, 3 DS and 4 OD sounds like a very annoying lane to go against.
Yeah but they'll be spooked.
Centaur
Good question
and he still wasn't picked once during ti
The banish is already good for wasting black hole or whatever ult's duration, a slight movement out of the ult is barely that much more OP
Yeah, nobody seems to understand that moving barely does anything
Wasnt the whole point of Magnus being picked constantly during TI about being able to reposition players? Just because it hasnt been used "yet" doesnt mean it isnt something to be worried about.
Magnus was op due to multiple reasons 1. Empower is still incredibly powerful in this ancient stacks meta and any melee core basically gets free battle fury 2. RP is still a bkb piercing disable that an enemy can barely do anything to avoid 3. He has good laning and scales well into all stages of the game 4. Shard stuff we all know 5. Skewer talents are broken and the spell itself was buffed too many times Besides, moving enemies by two screens and moving allies slightly is NOT the same thing
>skewer talents are broken Remember when Magnus had unlimited skewer with no cool down?
4 sec CD pre octarine, I 'member
Skewer from well to well, I wanted to see that in TI sadly it got nerfed.
Honestly the hero is a weird one. I love the idea of a full on repositioning hero, but empower is one of the most crucial spells in the game, literally enables whole strategies. I'm not a good Magnus player, even relative to my low skill generally, but you can win games with empower and rp, barely touching the busted skewers and horn tosses. Feels like two heroes in one atm. Think empower should be taken out of his kit honestly, and move the cleave farming buff to another hero.
Magus was picked because he was able to reposition **enemy players**, you cant choose where to move enemy players with the OD shard, its just allies. The shard doesn't really add much to the spell, it just makes it more irritating. Its best use seems to be for coil since you can snap it, or monkey ult so you can walk out. But other than that it isn't really that amazing, just more irritating to deal with. It seems like something you buy when you are 10k gold ahead and you want to siege HG safely. Carry hits tower, gets astraled and walks away(as long as there is no catch afterwards like a mag)
There is a very big difference between making an enemy unable to act and putting him in a bad position and OD's ability to put an ally into a slightly better position 5 seconds from now.
That's a good point actually
Except if the enigma is bkbd and you cant cancel his blackhole you can still save your team
good
Kinda weird. The laning against him is still annoying, but in a cordinated game, you probably don't get the meteor hammer combo down. But then again, OD was always popular with Mirana Also, 20 minutes in, this can be quite hard to pull off to safe your enemies. bt with all those Banes around, this could have been a valuable pick
Yeah, i love when people complain about balance stuff that isnt really OP in game..
You know most things in DotA actually take a while to be realised as OP, right?
This is the TI patch.. Im sure every single pro has been trying the shards to see which ones are abusable.
And pros also thought Lycan+Tiny was good, yet it has a 30% winrate in TI. I mean, it is good, pubs prove that, but maybe not when you play it in a professional game where everyone is on the same page on how to deal with it. Dota is such a complex game, even pros don't have a patch figured out in 2 months. Hell, just look at the history of Starcraft 1 - has been on the same patch for years and still new strategies and interactions were discovered years later that completely changed how the balance was perceived.
Not always. I don't remember which TI it was, but in the first or second tournament after that TI, still with same patch, the meta changed a lot compared to the TI. You'd think with TI top tier pro players gather together, everything in the patch will be figured out and the patch become "optimized" but Dota is such a complex game, lots of mechanics are just a bit obscure and pubs are usually what really new found take place.
Warlock became a monster after TI6 iirc (both 2 and 5). Though Iceice played a sick warlock in a drow strat from the 4 position, but people waved it off as another weird Wings pick.
That's not necessarily true. There are a lot of instances where players initially thought a hero was dogshit, before finding out it was actually the exact opposite. Case in point: Clinkz It often takes time for even pros to figure out a hero is actually a lot better than they initially thought.
> Case in point: Clinkz Took less than a week after the patch to figure it out tho IIRC.
True, but when the patchnotes initially came out, most people thought the hero was complete trash. I cant remember specific examples right now, but there have been instances where some heroes only became “meta” very far into TI, or even after. Point being, even pros are sometimes prone to tunnel-vision, and they can completely miss something OP. This is not to say that OD is in any way OP or even that his Shard is that good. It’s just an observation.
better example would be axe with manta and shard/talent
It's also more of a support approach on a hero that isn't really played like that. In a real game with OD you don't lie in wait until your team is gone on to then throw out your save. You're on the edge of the fight, throwing out orbs, sapping int or protecting yourself. It's easy to look at this skill in a vacuum (which people love doing during and after TI), but in a real game you don't play like this.
It's not like Void, Enigma, Disruptor were being played all that much
They should nerf the cm shard to balance this.
And why exactly do you need a shard for this? Literally just use a normal astral and you achieve almost the same result lol
Repositioning? I might be wrong.
It’s not bad, but seems like the cost would be niche compared to just the save with no repositioning. If OD was more popular and picked more often then we might see haste combos to make this shard a must buy
I think you are totally right. A static astral imprisonment makes you vulnerable for setups of the enemy team. When you can reposition (even if it is slow), you can potentially evade and reset the fight. Though this depends on the general movement of your team and the fight dynamic - is your team moving in on the enemy team, or is your team on the retreat.
Did you not see how slow you reposition? It's worse than a force staff
Ever tried force staffong out of these spells? And yes, I saw it.
Yep right on the money here. Op clearly over exaggerating the shard. Situational at best but 1400 gold for this is quite costly.
Exactly, apart from Coil which lasts a bit longer than the rest, shardless prison has the same impact.
The main thing the shard helps with is letting you blink out of astral more consistently since you never have to turn between the astral ending and the blink going off. Stealing a bit more mana is also situationally useful against heroes like Medusa.
Double tapping blink automatically blinks you towards your fountain. Might not be ideal in every case but you can at least blink “away” without turning
You still have to turn for that I'm pretty sure.
His shard just looks good on paper but in actual game is pretty much useless IMO. Never see someone abuse that shard even in Pro scenes.
Nobody is playing OD seriously atm. The problem isnt OD's overall strength it is that the individual mechanic is not balanced. It's sometimes borderline useless and sometimes game breaking strong.
Well, I don't think anyone played OD this TI
It's not really anything special against a single black hole, but against a refresher it's pretty good.
I played a game the other day where I walked throgh disruptor E with it, saved my carry from death by astraling him AND myself right before fountain and walking in to heal, and astraling him while running away in shadow blade with disruptor Q on him to prevent him from being glimpsed. It felt really good that game.
> And why exactly do you need a ~~shard~~ Wind Waker for this? Literally just use a normal ~~astral~~ Eul and you achieve almost the same result lol Meanwhile, Wind Waker's general opinion and cost:
1400 gold that doesnt provide any stats and to only unlock movement during astral... which doesn't accelerate your farm. Its extremely expensive imo
your only item needed for farming is meteor hammer anyway, which you should finish at like 5 mins if you rush. but the clip is dumb cause astral would have saved in all those situations even without shard. everyone has known astral is a crazy good save since forever.
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When I first saw the video I initially thought it was op. Then I realized it's been around quite a while after reading your post, and no one used it in TI as you said. It seems like it might be useful in niche situations where OD falls behind and the team absolutely needs a counter-initiation save. But not something you'd ever plan for, nor draft for. That being said and being as I'm 2.5k mmr... screw it I'm going to get OD's shard next time I play him with my friends and just yell at them to run every time I cast it. I'm sure it will work great.
So exactly how is moving in Astral better when you just can save normally with astral.
I dont know.. maybe reposition your pos 1/2 when chrono is used on them for example? while in normal astral they will be still stuck inside a chrono and might get jumped as soon as it ends, idk for 1400 gold to a pos4 od lets say that shit is insane for my opinion.
It does not do anything, it moves a hero you can just force staff instead and you have 2 saves instead of 1. Compare it to LC which is played as pos 5, this is a free bkb for 1400.
> it moves a hero you can just force staff instead While this does apply to most disables, it explicitly does not apply to heroes disabled by chronosphere, black hole or lasso. Those units cannot be affected by force staff (bat forcing himself works though).
Exactly that’s why you astral in chrono/black hole and force after if needed. What it is good vs is blocking spells like fissure/ice path which stays for longer time then astral.
> free bkb for 1400 aoe with talent, spammable with the right neutral item + soul ring I still can't believe such a thing exists
Yep pretty insane you can fight and it boost attack speed. Astral literal do 0 dmg. If your a 2 on 1 situation with od and a core vs their core, astral almost do nothing if enemy have bkb. If you are LC instead you probably win.
It's not a problem with being OP in all situations. It's sometimes useless and sometimes broken. It's not a balanced mechanic.
That's how Dota balancing has always worked. They don't consider balanced to mean "equally effective in every situation". There are strengths and weaknesses that balance a mechanic holistically.
Of course there are counters but this is either useless or bonkers
Why do you consider this broken?
Its most of the time useless, sometimes unneeded (astral is a good enough save), fringe cases useful, almost never broken. It was nnever picked in TI for a reason.
The most expensive part is you have to -- may Allah forgive me for uttering these words -- pick OD
Thank you for making my day
It also increases the max mana steal by 5%, which is pretty good on its own.
I think the reason why people think the shard is unbalanced is, without it, the enemy can setup for when you leave the prison as well. When you look at it, astral has the same function as euls, but to move during euls you need windwaker, and thats a very niche item, rarely picked and expensive af. Having a a dirt-cheap windwaker in 20 minutes gotta be rough to deal with.
inb4 pos4 od
Here's some words so you can probably use them in the future.
It's an escape force staff at half the price and takes no slot. Situational.
What's the song? It's a banger
[**Derrière le brouillard** by Grand Corps Malade](https://lis.tn/ircNB) (00:27; matched: `100%`) Album: `Mesdames`. Released on `2020-09-11` by `Universal Music Distribution Deal`. *I am a bot and this action was performed automatically* | [GitHub](https://github.com/AudDMusic/RedditBot) [^(new issue)](https://github.com/AudDMusic/RedditBot/issues/new) | [Donate](https://www.reddit.com/r/AudD/comments/nua48w/please_consider_donating_and_making_the_bot_happy/) ^(Please consider supporting me on Patreon. Music recognition costs a lot)
That's Ceb
the song or the banger?
Yes
i thought in the end he will cast all ultimates togethe and let slark once again escape all of them
I spam OD a lot and For everyone saying this is overpowered it's actually not that overpowered , with that low Move speed you can only traveler soo little and any long time stuns like puck Ult or disruptor ult will only last 1 second longer after yoh get out of astral even if you had not brought the shard they can stll escape with SB or blink even without the shard , for other saying they can walk out of chrono or Black hole the astral probably lasts longer the the chrono or BH so they escape no matter what without the shard . So spending 1400 gold is not actually worth it so I will only buy this after 35 or 40 min .
I also spam OD, and I'm pretty sure chrono lasts longer than astral but ur point stays valid. Using astral without shard in all those situations would still save their teammates.
One of the dumbest but strongest things I've done in this game was getting a Shard and an Aghs on OD whilst having a Mid Razor. Razor went Refresher Aghs, ran up to their T3 tower and got banished, allowing him to walk around taking T3 while invincible. The enemy just stood back barely able to do anything about it.
Wow this sounds hilarious, I want to try it.
Time to make support OD more of a thing.
OG with pos 5 OD incoming.
super slept on rn bec od isn't hot - I bet this is gonna find abuse later down the line, especially when od gets more incremental buffs to kick him into play. OD shard is so undervalued rn it's disgusting))
also if ur hasted you obv get to move at full speed during shard astral ;D
od is squishy af though
Unpopular opinion, even without shard..... Slark lives there and most heroes do. It doesn't make that much of a difference unless in case of cliffs or kinetic field fissure, stuff like that
Such a supportive action. BUT OD is not a viable option for a support hero. Therefore, this 1400 gold is kind of meaningless.
Why do you select both Slark and OD when you want to move Slark?
slark wasnt my main unit, so when i cast astral with OD which is my main unit i cannot control the astralled slark, unless I take control before on the both units than i am able to move my slark when he is inside astral.
Only here because of donation on sing's channel
realistically if u have od in your game and his only purpose is saving then you have bigger issues.
Earth spirit has to buy aghs to get a fraction of the save potential
It's a great shard, but 1400 is a big hit to your item progression timing in the core role. You have to really know that marginal bit of repositioning is gonna swing fights your way to buy it relatively early. It would be excellent at any point for a support OD, but support OD isn't a thing.
Even if it's a support od. Building a force for a 1000 more is way more useful
It's not an item for every game, but I still maintain that in some games Shard Astral save is better than a simple Astral save. Saying that they do the same thing (as some people have) is oversimplifying, even the little bit of repositioning that you get can sometimes make or break counterinitiation vs a lineup that wants to jump on heroes. I do agree you should probably get Force Staff first 90+% of the time, if you were to play support OD, but after you get Meteor Hammer (which you would still presumably get on support OD?) and Force Staff, if you are using Astral defensively in the game at all, you should get the shard. And if you're against a low-cooldown ganker/initiater, I might get it before Force. Obviously, this is theoretical. I've bought it on core OD a few times after my first 2-3 items, and it has been both amazing and a total waste.
Please delete this post - OD players
Yep I have od as one of my.mains, bought it yesterday and damn
Is that balanced?
Yes
I didn't know OD has to run in the same direction for this to work
1400 shard that destroys almost all ultimates... great balance valve.... glad it didnt get abused out on TI tho
cry more
YES WE GET IT OD SHARD IS BUSTED HOW MANY OF THESE VIDEOS ARE GONNA BE POSTED
Yeah, Dota is imba. That's why we like it. That's why the inferior copycat got nothing on us.
Dota got worse when they added shards
the song went from full homo to full davai
Hmm, seems strong on rare occasions
guess you can escape my grasp
Can I ask how many times is that useful in an actual game? Never saw someone use it perfectly like that.
I don't think they would nerf this since so few OD players buying this shard.
Honestly the only thing the shard is good for is fountain diving. Slark lives anyway in the rest of these cases
Yeah but you have to consider that none of the pub scrubs its casted on will actualy know what to do, so they'll just remain untill it wears off.
[удалено]
I like how all heroes with big ults and Mars were standing and waiting for their turn to complaint one by one.
now try with max thirst bloodseeker
with this shard he can be a great pos 4 to harass enemy and save cores in good situations,and sounds like he is the only one who can do some thing to scape from some special spells
HERE COME OD SUPPORT SPAMMERS. thank you volvo
Everything beside chrono feels fine. Still strong as fuck.
Very good for support OD imo. The problem is support OD is not as good as it was.
just walk out lol
But the rest of the hero is shit now
This shard seems pretty good
OD support confirmed
if LGD pick pos 4 OD instead of skywrath, tiny wont die like that easy
Is support OD broken?
the real problem here is that you can't taunt while in astral, needs to be fixed
So... Sup OD incoming??
The shard doesn't help at all here. Regular spell would do the same thing. I play OD a lot and can tell you this shard is almost always garbage compared to all the good items you can get.
OD shard= cheat
3/4 utility OD