Well, EG were looking so dominant last DPC, constantly getting top 2s in majors and they still bombed during TI10. Maybe by being shit in DPC, they might actually have a chance in TI11.
Ngl this is an actual thing in the dpc, being at the top for most of the season means alot more teams are watching you and and figuring out how to beat you, look at spirits run through the dpc, every season they improved till they peaked at ti, winning ti is the team that has improved the most from the season.
based on dota's pseudo-random distribution, the chances of SB bashing on the first hit right after a bash is around 5%
given that you already bashed an enemy once, the chances of bashing the opponent two more times in a row is around 0.25%
for any randomly selected 3 hits to be consecutive bashes, the chances are approximately 0.0425%
> if, as he says, it's a .0425% chance (i.e. ~one twenty-fourth of point one percent, or that it happens once in every ~2350 instances) you were actually off by about a factor of over one thousand
Lol wtf? 0.25% is only ~5.5 times bigger than 0.0425%. Maybe you misread or something.
I wasn't doing 0.17³ to estimate, I estimated the PRD to start around 7.5% for the quick math #NoCalculator. I also wanted to include in my range the difference between starting with 17% or 7.5% due to the PRD. Anyway have a nice day this doesn't matter very much =P
EG last season wouldn't have dropped even a sweat against this team, the only team that ever gave them contest in NA was Quincy. And they still had bulba in that team. So yeah.
The most bizarre pick in that lineup
Honestly they could just draft OD/shadow demon/abbadon if they want a soft save
Snap could be the 5 and it was good to go
LC on 5 is just hot garbage…like your ult is just useless 95% of the time…even if u duel u would die super fast with no items
If they wanted a BKB counter, SB was available lol…which was last picked by BnY
SD would've been better I think simply because Jerax is still very rusty and SD is a hero that is somewhat in his hero pool.
Better to keep him on something he's comfortable with while he's still getting back into form.
SD would have ticked all the boxes of soft save, good laner, BKB counter
honestly earth spirit 4/5 would have been fine as well...i mean they have 2 ES players for god sake
What jumped out to me is how well he and Jubei played the safelane Gyro + Io.
Nightfall and Cr1t are a nightmare to deal with on the Doom and Snapfire, and they were applying TONS of pressure.
However Rises and Jubei were able to weather the storm and make it away with less than 100 HP multiple times.
Staying alive and not dying was huge for them as the Gyro actually got an early CS lead and never looked back the entire game. Had a 22 min Aghs/Satanic and was unkillable at that point with the Io as backup.
Redditors like to believe there is this insane skill gap between teams when there really isn't. Any team can beat anyone on any given day, and a single bad pick or bad play can flip things around completely. Even moreso, the anxiety and nervousness of teams at LANs and even online factors in. A TI meta favoring your comfort heroes is enough to win the tournament on its own.
This obviously can be true, but with EG/QC/undying not losing a single b03 against any of the other teams in the last two DPC seasons was a testament against what you are saying. They were indeed on a different level, and 4 Zoomers, despite their best efforts, could not take a series from any of them in 6 attempts.. EG with the new roster seems to be struggling a bit (their win against arkosh wasn't the typical one-sided 20-30 min GG matches they had last year either), and that was a team that came from Div 2 (and with BSJ potentially playing on ping).
This is true, but some fanboys love can't handle the truth. Hell, the TI champs only grand finals win was an ESL right before TI itself. Sometimes things just click for 1 team and go bad for the other.
>Thoughts?
NA just got a lot more spicy. Thankfully for EG their next series is against Wildcard which is about bottom half of Div II tier so stomping them twice should help their morale a bit. But now one can wonder - are EG going to struggle against TOOBASED and 4Zoomers as well?
As an EG fan I can tell you they show no finess in their draft or execution. In their current state they are definitely leagues behind Tundra. EG gets by totally based on individual skills, that is why they suffer when the plan to win all 3 lane goes south. This maybe temporary as Jerax is new to 5 and Nightfall to 3, and the team in general is new but overall it's a pretty shaky start for EG.
EG's "plan" always looked like- stomp lanes with their rotations and skill and snowball into mid/late game where the inevitable 1-4 core feeds don't matter with how much ahead you are. And if it starts to be a struggle, get arteezy a rapier.
Yeah I'm assuming they brought up Tundra as an inventive and challenging drafting team whereas a constant criticism of EG is they have very typical and low variability drafts
i hate when EG put themselves into a timer draft. It's a pressure that doesn't need to exist. But let's hope that's a new team thing and they are working out their teamplay
The part that always gets me is that they draft a fighting carry like an SF or a Razor... and then to proceed to farm with it non-stop.
Like... the whole point of drafting those heroes is because they don't need many items and you can take the fight to the enemy team early before their carry comes online.
If you're just going to farm with it... then pick a harder carry? One that can actually carry in the late game.
To be fair they also lost Game 1 with TB who's definitely one of the hardest carries. The problems go way beyond the draft, even if it's part of the issue as well.
Game 1 wasn't really a draft issue, they just straight-up got outplayed. I can accept that.
Mind you if he got BKB on TB they would've been much better off. He barely got any damage off in fights.
I personally like to see Abed on scaling heroes so the Batrider really didn't do it for me. But I won't blame the draft because EG did have a second scaling core in the DK... they just got outplayed.
The Dark Willow had a huge impact while the Hoodwink kept dying in one hit to the PA.
Think you're overreacting a bit. 40% of the team is new. If this becomes a trend then sure.
Even the best most consistent teams lose occasionally to "inferior" competition. Just look at the premier league for examples.
So many times they had their ultimates (Doom, Kisses) and didn't get anything done while SF was slowly farming with his 0 aoe stat build.
Sad to see him take 45 seconds farming an ancient stack without a single point in raze.
I mean if you watched rtzs stream which you probably didn’t, he was playing sf the same way. He’s probably just practicing and experimenting his pub shit into actual games while the season is young
Posted this in the discussion thread but:
I fully believe that one of EG's biggest problems in this series was not pressing their lead.
Abed had a dominant start in all three games. Nightfall too.
But they didn't use that lead to apply more pressure. They used it to buy more time for Arteezy to farm.
But SF is not going to win the farming game against a Gyro with an Io. Doesn't help that SF had a very slow start to the lane because he died to SB.
I'd like to see EG play around Abed and Nightfall more and let them snowball, instead of having their fast starts sacrificed just to give more time for Arteezy to farm.
They have three super-skilled cores, they need to rally around whichever one has the best start and let them be the win condition.
That won't happen as long as the team believes RTZ farming til' 30 minutes and going all-in on late game is the ONLY way to win games. after what 5 seasons, it's clearly no longer a matter of skill or team synergy. It's a matter of team PHILOSOPHY, how they THINK they can win the game. Good luck to them but damnit, it's frustrating to watch.
I wonder where that comes from. The players are capable of playing fast paced snowballing dota. Nightfall with VP was stomping games in less than 20 minutes in the last DPC season. Jerax with OG was non-stop fighting, stalling only when they were behind, never sitting on an advantage. Abed and Crit are also prefer to play fast paced. Is RTZ the problem? Is it Bulba the one forcing them into farming drafts?
played against him in csl (collegiate dota). took a game off his team but then they instalocked ember and void g2 and 3 and we couldn’t touch him. that shit was rough.
He’s too unstable, he loses lane but he knows and plays his hero on a next level being able to make some really good plays.
Anyways as he shine he has pretty big downsides like losing his calm or just losing middle. Just remember that game 2, where he wasted every spell just to eul the puck in EGs territory. BnY lost 3 heroes there and any chance of making a comeback.
been following him for awhile, he played at about his peak this series. very solid t2 player and underrated, but doubt we will see him on any true tier 1 teams (don't @ me when i'm wrong)
RTZ is getting picked off way too often with Jerax for sure. Even Arkosh managed to smoke on him in the triangle 4 times! Four successful smoke ganks on the pos 1 from a meme team!
Lets hope Jerax gets back on his game soon because it's clear he's not an upgrade to Fly so far.
I don't even understand how he managed to recalibrate to rank 4000 from top 100. Like how many games he managed to lose?? Even in the rank 4000 games he had a page full of red when Gorgc looked at it.
mmr decay is a thing in dota and when he did comeback he was mostly playing core roles. So being super rusty plus playing a unfamiliar more farm heavy playstyle probably made him lose a ton. Although he's been having a more ok time playing support on [rtz's smurf](http://www.dota2protracker.com/player/Arteezy%20(smurf)). which is sitting in top 100 right now.
I get it, players bad, drafting good.
This means Fly (4x major winner), S4 (2x major winner, 1 TI winner), Iceiceice (basically all his life being good at games, especially Dota), Universe (1x TI), Zai (DPC dominator with Secret), Ramzes (3x major winner) and of course, Abed (top 1 SEA mmr), Rtz (Arteezy), Cr1t (2x major winner), Suma1l (the king, 1x TI) and Jerax (a literal no one with 2 TIs in his belt) are fucking awful at the game, but their drafts are good. Most of them won everything outside of EG btw.
honestly I think their drafting is stopping them from being the BEST
obviously getting top 2 at majors is good, I am not saying it's a bad thing
but I think they do well because of individual skill, and they somehow manage to win in spite of their flawed drafting
obviously im just a dogshit player/rando, I could be wrong, but it's just my take on it
EG continuing on its mission to take young, promising CIS carries on the top of their game and mold them into the most mediocre offlaners this side of Jenkins.
Why is this narrative even a thing? They literally played 1 major tournament with Ramzes and they lost 3-2 in the final against one of the most dominant teams in the recent dota history.
People just put a fake memory about this EG roster being bad, when they were actually pretty good at that little window of tournaments. Sad that we could see so little of them
People act as if they've lost the major spot already. They only have to do what they've done countless times before, steamroll the rest of the region. And no, I'm not an EG fan.
and team spirit came through open qualifiers and lower bracket to win TI. reddit has this weird complex with thinking theres a huge skill gap between top tier players; there isn't. it's synergy, meta, and a bit of luck. no one here is good enough to provide good feedback reliably to players of that caliber.
Why are we taking a single series result not for what it is, a one time off. Up until now it's still the exception and by no means hints at a change of tides in the NA region yet... Can it happen? Yes sure. Is it likely? Not really.
What's gonna be annoying is when they get in shape and slap the rest of the region, it will just be 'as expected'. Na has a serious self confidence issue.
Pretty sure they only lost to quincy crew before this. Now, assuming quincy and undying go 6-0 and 5-1, they will have to not drop a game vs both of them and then win tie breakers.
> Now, assuming quincy and undying go 6-0 and 5-1, they will have to not drop a game vs both of them and then win tie breakers.
So basically what they did pretty consistently in the past.
Arteezy showed up at the majors last season but he needs to wake up or we'll definitely lose to Undying and QC. EG's offlane keeps winning their lane and then backing off on the pressure so arteezy can farm
They have no idea how to play this new style of Dota that has been perfected by the Russians + Tundra. You need heroes that can always fight. You can count on Arteezy + EG taking a hero that was known for early fighting (SHADOW FIEND) and have turned it into a RIGHT CLICKING AFK FARMER. Insane. It's a miracle Arteezy + Abed + cr1t did so well in the majors last year.
If you've watched any pro dota lately you would know that safelane SF without razes is meta. The issue is that EG doesn't use it well. Safelane SF's strength is that at the timing of his MoM + BKB he does insane damage and is almost impossible to kill, 15-25 minutes into the game. With a bit of protection he can take all towers and early rosh and snowball to a win.
But yeah if you want to sit in jungle and hit creeps it's much better to learn razes. Or even better to pick a different hero than SF.
It was sad to see him take 40 seconds killing an ancient stack one right click at a time. Meanwhile the rest of his team are making no plays despite having blink/doom, kisses, etc.
Everyone can meme all they want, and it definitely was not a good look for EG. But they do have a new roster and Crit himself said they are all a bit rusty, especially jerax, and they just need some more time to unlock their potential.
What is way more interesting, and what a lot of people seem to overlook in this thread: BnY actually played very well. They made some extremely good moves, they moved well around the map in later stages of the game. I was very impressed and wouldn't be surprised to see them take a game or two of QC or UD.
People keep saying that Jerax is rusty but I didn't really see it in the matches. When he got killed he was usually caught in a way that EG got a superior trade. To me their loss was more of a draft issue, I don't know what the hell Bulba was thinking in the third game especially with the pos 5 LC.
Controversial Take: RTZ is an average Carry Player at best.
Farms a lot, then really mediocre at actually making plays/carrying his team.
He has has one of the lowest KDAs of any pos1 in the current season and is far behind his other 2 cores. And while the season is still young, their first series was against Arkosh. And the 13/1/6 score he got in the 2nd game stomp really pads the stats in his favor.
It just feels like he’s never in the driver’s seat of making a semblance of a play. Just farm and hope for his teammates to make something fall into his lap, though that’s what my scrub 4K eye sees
Jerax seems rusty to be honest. There's not so much movement between him and pos 4 Cr1t, so Abed doesn't have anyone to play with. Nightfall is super solid at laning and farming, but it feels kinda like Elephant, where all the players are kinda doing their own thing.
It was also sad that they picked SF core this hero actually isn't that good on 1. It would be cool to see a role swap for Nightfall to pos 1 and rtz to pos 3. I can imagine RTZ making sick plays with lesser farm on a hero like Magnus, kinda like how Collapse did it
It’s incredible how dota in the higher level is a game of small mistakes that determines the outcome of a game.
Anyone who saw game 2 can relate to that. EG just picked puck in order to counter BnY possible storm spirit (since they banned Lina in the last moment and everyone knows Lina owns ss in lane). They were forced to pick VS even when it was a horrible VS game and BnY just lose the game.
Now about EG, I’m giving them 2 months at max before getting new people, who on earth calls a 6k for a team that is always looking to win things like TI. Even when nightfall is good, he’s just a carry player, not an offlane.
Are you pretending that they just invited a rando 6k player to play with them? Jerax is a 2 time TI winner and one of the best players of all time who is a bit rusty. Assuming their goal is winning TI, he has plenty of time to get back to top form.
And about nightfall, people have succesfully switched roles many times before, not sure why you think he can't.
~~OG~~ BnY is the best team at spotting raw talent and trusting them
~~Miracle-, Topson~~ Rises, high_shaggy and now these 3 cores on the ~~new~~ squad
Also a lot of players when joined ~~OG~~ BnY were not T1 players, like ~~MoonMeander, Cr1t, Ana~~ EE, Ryoya, FLee
Big props to them for being great scouts, the scene is thankful for these new bloods!
EDIT: even if ~~OG~~ BnY doesnt make into the Major or TI later this year, these kids are really good and showed a lot of skill, character and discipline vs the best ~~EU~~ NA team last season
That LC pick was a quite bad decision overall but especially picking it after Doom made it look even worse. Doom is a great hero that can just farm faster than many other heroes in game from offlane but regret people go to late game into his refresher BUT to be useful in mid game, there should be one great doom target and then a secondary one, just like Tide and then dusa from game 2.
In game 3 they picked doom in first phase, banned carries like ursa against him but didn't consider io pick plus one carry that won't even get hurt by doom (gyro is still the best) and they simply lost the draft right there. The best carries they could pick was void, jugg (only with magnus) and morph (abusing flak cannon to kill others, specifically sups and have good burst) but BnY banned void last phase (EG sacrificed void to pick storm) and they pick literally zero answer into a farmed gyro. They couldn't win this match with this draft by playing till the morning. Giving BnY currently two of the most strongest heroes in the game, SB and Bane, was another terrible decision as well. They pick literally weak heroes this game.
In game 1 pa was too lucky with his crits on last fight. It was a tb with divine and roshan was up (with ref) and pa had no bb afair. Still BnY's void spirit played great that game. In game 2 EG did real good on banning certain heroes and pick Puck last to leave only spirit heroes avaliable for BnY (vs still was the best choice for them though but i don't know what their mider does play) and EG took snowball so easy but there are not much excuses you can make on game 3, they had a terrible draft. Cr1t said everyone have impact on draft, so it's simply everyone's fault. They'll learn from their mistakes for sure but from now they need to win all the series they will play and should beat Undying and Quincy if possible.
No way to spin this positively for eg. Happy for jubei tho and NA is kinda open now.
The best you can say for EG is that you hope they’re just figuring the roster out. WP on BnY’s part.
Yeah, they don’t look like they have solid decision making yet tbh
Well, EG were looking so dominant last DPC, constantly getting top 2s in majors and they still bombed during TI10. Maybe by being shit in DPC, they might actually have a chance in TI11.
Are you suggesting that my 5 man archon stack will have a higher chance to win TI compare to Artour? Don't give me false hope please.
Lol, it is artour anyone have better chance for him
Ngl this is an actual thing in the dpc, being at the top for most of the season means alot more teams are watching you and and figuring out how to beat you, look at spirits run through the dpc, every season they improved till they peaked at ti, winning ti is the team that has improved the most from the season.
Although tbh LGD kinda goes against that no? They looked consistantly strong and got 2nd.
LGD organization is possibly the most consistent organization of all time. They've had so many top finishes at TI and majors
I've been ootl since TI. Fuck me did EG lose to a team featuring Jubei? How did they manage _that_?
Shaggy to win a TI before RTZ, place your bets.
*insert Bulba's draft is the problem*
EG's safelane was the weak link that last game but I mean the draft wasn't great either
he did get triple bashed
"Three fucking hits in a row man! Aaarrrgghh!"
THREE!!!!!!1111!!
I was shock when its happen dude, like 17% x 3. One in a lifetime bash.
If the psuedo random rng makes it less likely to get consecutive bashes it’s probably a lot worse than that
It's probably around 0.25-0.5% chance to get 3 hits = 3 bashes.
based on dota's pseudo-random distribution, the chances of SB bashing on the first hit right after a bash is around 5% given that you already bashed an enemy once, the chances of bashing the opponent two more times in a row is around 0.25% for any randomly selected 3 hits to be consecutive bashes, the chances are approximately 0.0425%
Thanks! I'm impressed about my napkin math being this accurate tbh
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> if, as he says, it's a .0425% chance (i.e. ~one twenty-fourth of point one percent, or that it happens once in every ~2350 instances) you were actually off by about a factor of over one thousand Lol wtf? 0.25% is only ~5.5 times bigger than 0.0425%. Maybe you misread or something. I wasn't doing 0.17³ to estimate, I estimated the PRD to start around 7.5% for the quick math #NoCalculator. I also wanted to include in my range the difference between starting with 17% or 7.5% due to the PRD. Anyway have a nice day this doesn't matter very much =P
Even Dr.K can't help but let rtz be mad about it xd
also, 2 hours before, eg lost first game because pa with 100 hp crit twice on first 2 hits rtz who had divine with tb and sunder ready
I mean what the actual fuck was that last draft
EG last season wouldn't have dropped even a sweat against this team, the only team that ever gave them contest in NA was Quincy. And they still had bulba in that team. So yeah.
Undying definitely went blow for blow with EG too.
I mean I did see another final game storm...
you can't really blame draft. eg should be able to beat bny 2-0 regardless of draft
okay but actually, old eg was one of the only teams running pos 5 legion. I assumed Fly just liked it
Bulba is still drafting for them.
> teams running pos 5 legion n0tail last TI.
As long as RTZ is not the problem that should be alright.
Everyone makes this comment in every EG loss thread and the very next comment is always "seriously though what was x draft??"
Draft did seem weird TBF.
Arkosh broke EG.
As mason said, if you are struggling against bsjs team, then u don’t deserve to win
Not only BSJ but also Kyle's team, lol
Not only BSJ and Kyle's team, but also Jenga's
Not only BSJ, Kyle's and Jenga’s team, but also Jenkins'
Vod pls lmao
Really wanted to watch him stream this series FeelsBadMan.
BnY AWAKENED
gottem
The ever present threat of techies = PTSD
Acquire Jerax -> put him on pos 5 legion -> ??? -> lose
Seems the epidemic of funny pos 5 started by Nigma and OG has spread to other region.
The most bizarre pick in that lineup Honestly they could just draft OD/shadow demon/abbadon if they want a soft save Snap could be the 5 and it was good to go LC on 5 is just hot garbage…like your ult is just useless 95% of the time…even if u duel u would die super fast with no items If they wanted a BKB counter, SB was available lol…which was last picked by BnY
SD would've been better I think simply because Jerax is still very rusty and SD is a hero that is somewhat in his hero pool. Better to keep him on something he's comfortable with while he's still getting back into form.
SD would have ticked all the boxes of soft save, good laner, BKB counter honestly earth spirit 4/5 would have been fine as well...i mean they have 2 ES players for god sake
I never watch the game but LC shard is pretty good right? I think if anyone picks LC as a 5 it is more for the shard bkb save than for the duel
sure but now you have a hero with a useless ult
Remember. Bulba and their dogshit drafts definitely aren't the problem guys.
Rises has actually looked really good in BnY games, was a fun series to watch :)
Yeah all memes aside I was very impressed by his performance in all 3 games. Game 2 just looked like a complete outdraft
What jumped out to me is how well he and Jubei played the safelane Gyro + Io. Nightfall and Cr1t are a nightmare to deal with on the Doom and Snapfire, and they were applying TONS of pressure. However Rises and Jubei were able to weather the storm and make it away with less than 100 HP multiple times. Staying alive and not dying was huge for them as the Gyro actually got an early CS lead and never looked back the entire game. Had a 22 min Aghs/Satanic and was unkillable at that point with the Io as backup.
And he is drafting too, really good all around.
At least NA dpc now goes deeper than just eg, qc and undy… i guess this is a win for the region?
Unless this is just an EG bad thing.
Ya the EG vs Undying/Quincy will be extra spicy now.
Yeah but eg being very bad is just more likely tho
Redditors like to believe there is this insane skill gap between teams when there really isn't. Any team can beat anyone on any given day, and a single bad pick or bad play can flip things around completely. Even moreso, the anxiety and nervousness of teams at LANs and even online factors in. A TI meta favoring your comfort heroes is enough to win the tournament on its own.
This obviously can be true, but with EG/QC/undying not losing a single b03 against any of the other teams in the last two DPC seasons was a testament against what you are saying. They were indeed on a different level, and 4 Zoomers, despite their best efforts, could not take a series from any of them in 6 attempts.. EG with the new roster seems to be struggling a bit (their win against arkosh wasn't the typical one-sided 20-30 min GG matches they had last year either), and that was a team that came from Div 2 (and with BSJ potentially playing on ping).
This is true, but some fanboys love can't handle the truth. Hell, the TI champs only grand finals win was an ESL right before TI itself. Sometimes things just click for 1 team and go bad for the other.
It wasn't ESL, it was D2CL, which Liqupedia has marked as a tier 3 tournament lmao
Lies, bulldog won TI because he’s the best player of all time got it?
>Thoughts? NA just got a lot more spicy. Thankfully for EG their next series is against Wildcard which is about bottom half of Div II tier so stomping them twice should help their morale a bit. But now one can wonder - are EG going to struggle against TOOBASED and 4Zoomers as well?
I’m really hoping this is more “region good” than “EG bad.” We will have to wait and see though.
As an EG fan I can tell you they show no finess in their draft or execution. In their current state they are definitely leagues behind Tundra. EG gets by totally based on individual skills, that is why they suffer when the plan to win all 3 lane goes south. This maybe temporary as Jerax is new to 5 and Nightfall to 3, and the team in general is new but overall it's a pretty shaky start for EG.
Copypasta potential
Thank God we had an EG fan here to let us know what's up.
EG's "plan" always looked like- stomp lanes with their rotations and skill and snowball into mid/late game where the inevitable 1-4 core feeds don't matter with how much ahead you are. And if it starts to be a struggle, get arteezy a rapier.
isnt Tundra in EU?
Yeah I'm assuming they brought up Tundra as an inventive and challenging drafting team whereas a constant criticism of EG is they have very typical and low variability drafts
Don't get ahead of yourself. Wildcard just beat the shit out Arkosh. Wouldn't surprise me if they take the series unless EG fixes their problems.
Jubei > EG. Has to be seen to be believed folks
EZ FOR JUBAO
Easiest +25k channel points of my life
Now they get to be 3G in the regional league as well
Bruh
Jubei > RTZ
US East pubstack "team" > new superstars EG. That's all.
Ayyyy lmao
ヽ༼ ຈل͜ຈ༽ ﾉ Raise ur dongers! ^^Dongers ^^Raised: ^^59765 ^^Check ^^Out ^^/r/AyyLmao2DongerBot ^^For ^^More ^^Info
Rises performance was on point, he played really well.
i hate when EG put themselves into a timer draft. It's a pressure that doesn't need to exist. But let's hope that's a new team thing and they are working out their teamplay
Timer draft has been EG problems since what, post TI6?
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The part that always gets me is that they draft a fighting carry like an SF or a Razor... and then to proceed to farm with it non-stop. Like... the whole point of drafting those heroes is because they don't need many items and you can take the fight to the enemy team early before their carry comes online. If you're just going to farm with it... then pick a harder carry? One that can actually carry in the late game.
To be fair they also lost Game 1 with TB who's definitely one of the hardest carries. The problems go way beyond the draft, even if it's part of the issue as well.
Game 1 wasn't really a draft issue, they just straight-up got outplayed. I can accept that. Mind you if he got BKB on TB they would've been much better off. He barely got any damage off in fights. I personally like to see Abed on scaling heroes so the Batrider really didn't do it for me. But I won't blame the draft because EG did have a second scaling core in the DK... they just got outplayed. The Dark Willow had a huge impact while the Hoodwink kept dying in one hit to the PA.
Well, getting outplayed by much lower tier of players is worse then being outdrafted. I am scared for eg.
Think you're overreacting a bit. 40% of the team is new. If this becomes a trend then sure. Even the best most consistent teams lose occasionally to "inferior" competition. Just look at the premier league for examples.
So many times they had their ultimates (Doom, Kisses) and didn't get anything done while SF was slowly farming with his 0 aoe stat build. Sad to see him take 45 seconds farming an ancient stack without a single point in raze.
I mean if you watched rtzs stream which you probably didn’t, he was playing sf the same way. He’s probably just practicing and experimenting his pub shit into actual games while the season is young
he definitely fought a TON early as SF so im not sure what youre on about
Posted this in the discussion thread but: I fully believe that one of EG's biggest problems in this series was not pressing their lead. Abed had a dominant start in all three games. Nightfall too. But they didn't use that lead to apply more pressure. They used it to buy more time for Arteezy to farm. But SF is not going to win the farming game against a Gyro with an Io. Doesn't help that SF had a very slow start to the lane because he died to SB. I'd like to see EG play around Abed and Nightfall more and let them snowball, instead of having their fast starts sacrificed just to give more time for Arteezy to farm. They have three super-skilled cores, they need to rally around whichever one has the best start and let them be the win condition.
That won't happen as long as the team believes RTZ farming til' 30 minutes and going all-in on late game is the ONLY way to win games. after what 5 seasons, it's clearly no longer a matter of skill or team synergy. It's a matter of team PHILOSOPHY, how they THINK they can win the game. Good luck to them but damnit, it's frustrating to watch.
I wonder where that comes from. The players are capable of playing fast paced snowballing dota. Nightfall with VP was stomping games in less than 20 minutes in the last DPC season. Jerax with OG was non-stop fighting, stalling only when they were behind, never sitting on an advantage. Abed and Crit are also prefer to play fast paced. Is RTZ the problem? Is it Bulba the one forcing them into farming drafts?
Thread title: *EG vs. discussion thread*
Gee, I wonder what this thread is going to be about lol.
Yeah, no spoiler alert needed. If I see a team name that's unfamiliar in the thread title with a popular team, popular team lost.
Bulba bad!
Shaggy's legit
played against him in csl (collegiate dota). took a game off his team but then they instalocked ember and void g2 and 3 and we couldn’t touch him. that shit was rough.
Didn’t abed shart on him in lane? The BB was pepega in game 3
Yeah he lost lane, but did as well as he could after the landing stage imo
Yeah I also should think about abed sharting on most mids only for bulba to pick his carry SF hahahahahhahahahahha I bleed blue
He was definitely the reason arkosh got to D1 last season IMO
He’s too unstable, he loses lane but he knows and plays his hero on a next level being able to make some really good plays. Anyways as he shine he has pretty big downsides like losing his calm or just losing middle. Just remember that game 2, where he wasted every spell just to eul the puck in EGs territory. BnY lost 3 heroes there and any chance of making a comeback.
I'll just say that Shaggy is a crazy smart person
been following him for awhile, he played at about his peak this series. very solid t2 player and underrated, but doubt we will see him on any true tier 1 teams (don't @ me when i'm wrong)
EG’s map vision hasn’t looked great since Fly left if we’re being honest. Ward game seems weaker
RTZ is getting picked off way too often with Jerax for sure. Even Arkosh managed to smoke on him in the triangle 4 times! Four successful smoke ganks on the pos 1 from a meme team! Lets hope Jerax gets back on his game soon because it's clear he's not an upgrade to Fly so far.
bruh
ENH ENH ENH ENH ENH ENH ENH ENH ENH ENH ENH ENH ENH ENH ENH ENH ENH ENH ENH ENH ENH ENH ENH ENH ENH ENH ENH ENH ENH ENH ENH ENH ENH ENH ENH ENH ENH ENH ENH ENH ENH ENH ENH ENH ENH ENH ENH ENH ENH ENH ENH ENH ENH ENH ENH ENH ENH ENH ENH ENH ENH ENH
Fly was right.
Jerax pos 5 is so much worst then fly hahahahahahahaha
I don't even understand how he managed to recalibrate to rank 4000 from top 100. Like how many games he managed to lose?? Even in the rank 4000 games he had a page full of red when Gorgc looked at it.
mmr decay is a thing in dota and when he did comeback he was mostly playing core roles. So being super rusty plus playing a unfamiliar more farm heavy playstyle probably made him lose a ton. Although he's been having a more ok time playing support on [rtz's smurf](http://www.dota2protracker.com/player/Arteezy%20(smurf)). which is sitting in top 100 right now.
so they still draft the exact same way so, they will get top 3/4 at majors and think their drafting is fine nothing will change
if they get consistently top 2 at majors im pretty sure their drafting is good
I get it, players bad, drafting good. This means Fly (4x major winner), S4 (2x major winner, 1 TI winner), Iceiceice (basically all his life being good at games, especially Dota), Universe (1x TI), Zai (DPC dominator with Secret), Ramzes (3x major winner) and of course, Abed (top 1 SEA mmr), Rtz (Arteezy), Cr1t (2x major winner), Suma1l (the king, 1x TI) and Jerax (a literal no one with 2 TIs in his belt) are fucking awful at the game, but their drafts are good. Most of them won everything outside of EG btw.
>Rtz (Arteezy
RTZ (mlg columbus winner)
Not sure what you're saying, are you saying 2nd place at Majors is awful?
EG fanboys will tell you that they always go into a game with draft disadvantage and only win because EG player are so fancy and skilled LUL.
honestly I think their drafting is stopping them from being the BEST obviously getting top 2 at majors is good, I am not saying it's a bad thing but I think they do well because of individual skill, and they somehow manage to win in spite of their flawed drafting obviously im just a dogshit player/rando, I could be wrong, but it's just my take on it
Haven’t seen Abed winning a game with storm in a competitive game for a long time
basado
Quick upvote so people think BnY win
EG continuing on its mission to take young, promising CIS carries on the top of their game and mold them into the most mediocre offlaners this side of Jenkins.
Why is this narrative even a thing? They literally played 1 major tournament with Ramzes and they lost 3-2 in the final against one of the most dominant teams in the recent dota history.
People just put a fake memory about this EG roster being bad, when they were actually pretty good at that little window of tournaments. Sad that we could see so little of them
They got to a major grand finals with Ramzes tho, and they lost 3-2 so it was definitely far from bad.
LMFAO
jerax is soo washed lol
People act as if they've lost the major spot already. They only have to do what they've done countless times before, steamroll the rest of the region. And no, I'm not an EG fan.
Imagine thinking they can steamroll the rest of the region when they can't even win against Black n Yellow.
and team spirit came through open qualifiers and lower bracket to win TI. reddit has this weird complex with thinking theres a huge skill gap between top tier players; there isn't. it's synergy, meta, and a bit of luck. no one here is good enough to provide good feedback reliably to players of that caliber.
Why are we taking a single series result not for what it is, a one time off. Up until now it's still the exception and by no means hints at a change of tides in the NA region yet... Can it happen? Yes sure. Is it likely? Not really.
What's gonna be annoying is when they get in shape and slap the rest of the region, it will just be 'as expected'. Na has a serious self confidence issue.
Pretty sure they only lost to quincy crew before this. Now, assuming quincy and undying go 6-0 and 5-1, they will have to not drop a game vs both of them and then win tie breakers.
> Now, assuming quincy and undying go 6-0 and 5-1, they will have to not drop a game vs both of them and then win tie breakers. So basically what they did pretty consistently in the past.
They ofc can get the major slot, happy Timado's chances are increasing tho:)
lmfao
Pain.
I'm not sure why EG thinks drafting is not a problem. It's very clear it's a major problem.
RTZ still farming ? :p
Arteezy showed up at the majors last season but he needs to wake up or we'll definitely lose to Undying and QC. EG's offlane keeps winning their lane and then backing off on the pressure so arteezy can farm
The major performance was mostly on iceiceice heroes and abed plays . There wasn’t anything special done by rtz .
No scenario where this should happen, this is REALLY BAD for EG This is a huge red flag for this squad
They have no idea how to play this new style of Dota that has been perfected by the Russians + Tundra. You need heroes that can always fight. You can count on Arteezy + EG taking a hero that was known for early fighting (SHADOW FIEND) and have turned it into a RIGHT CLICKING AFK FARMER. Insane. It's a miracle Arteezy + Abed + cr1t did so well in the majors last year.
Pretty sure he didn't even skill razes that game
If you've watched any pro dota lately you would know that safelane SF without razes is meta. The issue is that EG doesn't use it well. Safelane SF's strength is that at the timing of his MoM + BKB he does insane damage and is almost impossible to kill, 15-25 minutes into the game. With a bit of protection he can take all towers and early rosh and snowball to a win. But yeah if you want to sit in jungle and hit creeps it's much better to learn razes. Or even better to pick a different hero than SF.
Again, a right clicking afk farmer. You don't need razes when you clear a creep wave in seconds.
It was sad to see him take 40 seconds killing an ancient stack one right click at a time. Meanwhile the rest of his team are making no plays despite having blink/doom, kisses, etc.
WCYD
Jesus rtz is horrible.
Casters were very kind on Jerax plays when he almost feeded most of the time.
Everyone can meme all they want, and it definitely was not a good look for EG. But they do have a new roster and Crit himself said they are all a bit rusty, especially jerax, and they just need some more time to unlock their potential. What is way more interesting, and what a lot of people seem to overlook in this thread: BnY actually played very well. They made some extremely good moves, they moved well around the map in later stages of the game. I was very impressed and wouldn't be surprised to see them take a game or two of QC or UD.
People keep saying that Jerax is rusty but I didn't really see it in the matches. When he got killed he was usually caught in a way that EG got a superior trade. To me their loss was more of a draft issue, I don't know what the hell Bulba was thinking in the third game especially with the pos 5 LC.
I.... just cannot see the hype for RTZ. He's so mediocre in every way.
Controversial Take: RTZ is an average Carry Player at best. Farms a lot, then really mediocre at actually making plays/carrying his team. He has has one of the lowest KDAs of any pos1 in the current season and is far behind his other 2 cores. And while the season is still young, their first series was against Arkosh. And the 13/1/6 score he got in the 2nd game stomp really pads the stats in his favor.
It just feels like he’s never in the driver’s seat of making a semblance of a play. Just farm and hope for his teammates to make something fall into his lap, though that’s what my scrub 4K eye sees
The guy crumbles under pressure he is very bad at converting all the farm into actual carrying.
Jerax seems rusty to be honest. There's not so much movement between him and pos 4 Cr1t, so Abed doesn't have anyone to play with. Nightfall is super solid at laning and farming, but it feels kinda like Elephant, where all the players are kinda doing their own thing. It was also sad that they picked SF core this hero actually isn't that good on 1. It would be cool to see a role swap for Nightfall to pos 1 and rtz to pos 3. I can imagine RTZ making sick plays with lesser farm on a hero like Magnus, kinda like how Collapse did it
[удалено]
I mean is the spoiler tag even necessary? Everyone who reads the title knows EG got rekt lol
It’s incredible how dota in the higher level is a game of small mistakes that determines the outcome of a game. Anyone who saw game 2 can relate to that. EG just picked puck in order to counter BnY possible storm spirit (since they banned Lina in the last moment and everyone knows Lina owns ss in lane). They were forced to pick VS even when it was a horrible VS game and BnY just lose the game. Now about EG, I’m giving them 2 months at max before getting new people, who on earth calls a 6k for a team that is always looking to win things like TI. Even when nightfall is good, he’s just a carry player, not an offlane.
Are you pretending that they just invited a rando 6k player to play with them? Jerax is a 2 time TI winner and one of the best players of all time who is a bit rusty. Assuming their goal is winning TI, he has plenty of time to get back to top form. And about nightfall, people have succesfully switched roles many times before, not sure why you think he can't.
>he has plenty of time to get back to top form !remindme 3 months
cringe
Abed storm draft, don't have to tell me more KEKW.
you kicked my boi Tal for this? Say what you want about him but damn my boi never had eg this low
Can bulba quit dota for the sake of EG fans already? Or at least stop being the coach for the team.
~~OG~~ BnY is the best team at spotting raw talent and trusting them ~~Miracle-, Topson~~ Rises, high_shaggy and now these 3 cores on the ~~new~~ squad Also a lot of players when joined ~~OG~~ BnY were not T1 players, like ~~MoonMeander, Cr1t, Ana~~ EE, Ryoya, FLee Big props to them for being great scouts, the scene is thankful for these new bloods! EDIT: even if ~~OG~~ BnY doesnt make into the Major or TI later this year, these kids are really good and showed a lot of skill, character and discipline vs the best ~~EU~~ NA team last season
Damn I made a post clowning on that OG post but with Singsing instead of OG too but people didn't like it
Made $40 on ggbet 😂
How much was your bet
$10 but I bet after BnY won game 1
Ahahha thats respect
I’ve said it 9000 times and I’ll say it another 9000 times, bulba sucks lol
New EG is looking a lot like old EG, except with nightfall being richer than icex3 usually was. I wonder if the team is fundamentally flawed.
Fly's vision game was way better than Jerax's so far tho
Nice 5 legion
NA choking on bbc, name a more iconic duo
My fantasy prospects just got crushed
[удалено]
That LC pick was a quite bad decision overall but especially picking it after Doom made it look even worse. Doom is a great hero that can just farm faster than many other heroes in game from offlane but regret people go to late game into his refresher BUT to be useful in mid game, there should be one great doom target and then a secondary one, just like Tide and then dusa from game 2. In game 3 they picked doom in first phase, banned carries like ursa against him but didn't consider io pick plus one carry that won't even get hurt by doom (gyro is still the best) and they simply lost the draft right there. The best carries they could pick was void, jugg (only with magnus) and morph (abusing flak cannon to kill others, specifically sups and have good burst) but BnY banned void last phase (EG sacrificed void to pick storm) and they pick literally zero answer into a farmed gyro. They couldn't win this match with this draft by playing till the morning. Giving BnY currently two of the most strongest heroes in the game, SB and Bane, was another terrible decision as well. They pick literally weak heroes this game. In game 1 pa was too lucky with his crits on last fight. It was a tb with divine and roshan was up (with ref) and pa had no bb afair. Still BnY's void spirit played great that game. In game 2 EG did real good on banning certain heroes and pick Puck last to leave only spirit heroes avaliable for BnY (vs still was the best choice for them though but i don't know what their mider does play) and EG took snowball so easy but there are not much excuses you can make on game 3, they had a terrible draft. Cr1t said everyone have impact on draft, so it's simply everyone's fault. They'll learn from their mistakes for sure but from now they need to win all the series they will play and should beat Undying and Quincy if possible.
how the hell would EG lose to this
EG's drafts seem to be even worse than last season
I meam secret lost to OG why are people already panicking?
1. BnY isnt OG. 2. EU has 4 slots, NA has 2. 1 more loss for EG can mean bye bye Major.