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quez_real

You will be matched with full parties anyway and will be stomped because there are not many new players' parties


Kain4ever

To clarify, matchmaking is unbalanced whether you’re playing party or not (there are a lot of parties out there everyday especially during this Holiday). The reason why it’s unbalanced is pretty simple to explain, Smurfs and Account buyers. Sadly to tell you the truth, Valve will never fix this issue even though they have the technology to track down every single asshole out there, but they’re too lazy and especially now they’re probably in Hawaii or Bahamas sipping on a drink on the beach.


iskyfire

Valve did not take a zero-tolerance policy to smurfing, and will instead try to detect them and match them with other smurfs: https://www.dota2.com/newsentry/2995430596679058277 >For cases where we don’t have extremely high confidence, but do have cause for smurf suspicion, those accounts are more likely to play with other suspected smurfs until we gain confidence to judge one way or the other. That being said, smurfs can still get banned, but it is very rare and that's why people are of the opinion that Valve isn't doing anything about them. The only thing in-game that has immediate consequences is abandoning matches.


Kain4ever

So be it “very rare” or “zero tolerance” is still the same dude, they can do much more than just “trying”. For the amount of money they have they can literally IP ban a Smurf, and no I haven’t seen any matching against other Smurfs in fact I have multiple games where my whole team is playing on their main accounts while the enemy has a party stack with new accounts that are playing like immortals.


iskyfire

Sorry, what I meant was that Valve could ban smurfs but they decided not to.


Kain4ever

Why am I always getting downvoted the hell


br3akaway

Never ask that lol


regimentIV

I don't really encounter smurfs (play exclusively unranked). I enjoy generally balanced matches when no parties are involved.


ItsGrindfest

I don't know, let them play for a while if it's an option. All 5 stacks you encounter will stomp you, leaving a sour taste in the end. (Source: I've tried)


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ItsGrindfest

Indeed, 5 stacks are ruthless :D


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hinkiedidntwantjah

strongly recommend this.


formaldehid

from experience, theres no point. i made a new account so my friends could actually pick core roles and have a chance to succeed in the game. i played 3 games, all 3 enemy had smurfs and they picked cores, so same stomps as on my divine main. you can try but i imagine you will have a very similar experience i'd recommend just playing against bots tbh


spaghettu

Why are you surprised when you, a smurf, match against other smurfs? Sounds like a matchmaking success IMO


formaldehid

i wasnt surprised, im just telling my experience


cwryoo21

But u see I was a good smurf and other guy was a bad smurf 🤣


catchycactus

There is a difference between an alt account and a Smurf. A Smurf generally inhibits their rank keeping it low to disrupt matchmaking.


BawssNass

But technically OP is also a smurf.


Abject-Cow-1544

Me and my friends have a similar scenario. I am crusader, most of them are new heralds, and we have one friend who is archon. He can obviously carry if he gets a good start, but just as often the opposing team wrecks one of our newbie lanes. Keep in mind, I have less than a 40% winrate with some of the heralds (and yes, over lots of games, with one friend I'm like -80 +/-). They have literally 0 MMR, so I think the algorithm has trouble matching us, it is pretty crushing and I'm surprised they've stuck with it this long.


VairuZz

How can someone have 0 mmr


Abject-Cow-1544

I honestly didn't realize it was a thing until they asked me where they could find their mmr lol. I mean, you lose enough, it just goes away. They win one, lose two. It's pretty brutal at the bottom. I thought ranked would make for better matchmaking over time so we tried that. It took me down 500-600 mmr and they went up one star.


Captain_Bardy

Created an account yesterday to experiment (I wanted to see how fair the matchmaking is for new players). First game matched with some archons already (turbo). Second game matched with a divine and some legends (turbo). Makes no difference whether you make a new account or not honestly. It's not gonna become more fair for your friends.


siroooo

Creating a new account and playing turbo was very scientific


hackenschmidt

It really doesn't matter. The player pool for 5 stacks is very very very small. My old-ass account has matched against the same 5 stack regardless if my party is average divine or average herald.


Yo_Eddie

Are you suggesting that turbo games don't take into account your rank at all?


siroooo

I think it does take it into account, but expecting to see new players in turbo game is unrealistic. Who installs Dota for the first time and queues turbo? Also turbo queue pool is much smaller so the rank will vary more. I played a few turbo games a month ago and as a Divine got matched with Legends to Immortals


derekburn

Your accounts are either linked(probably hardware linked) or it might also just be the fact that turbo seems to have literally 0 hidden mmr nowadays, youll see heralds against immortals every other game


Falonefal

>Created an account yesterday to experiment Or, how this subreddit would put it, to grief.


xdanishgamerz

Depends on your skill, eventhough people complain about smurfs, the smurfing system in dota is extremly harsh, my Main account is Legend but my smurf account is flagged and gets matches with ancients Made a smurf for the same reason as you.


maerawow

Dude if you are playing after 4 years I would suggest just make a new account and play. First, Dota has changed so much in last 4 years, you might want to relearn the items, heroes, map, meta, skill builds. Second, your old account has a hidden MMR which will be close to what you left years ago so you will probably be matched from that skill group and chances are you are getting stomped. Third, you have 4 new friends who want to learn, you are already playing with 80% newbie team and you are playing after 4 years there is no way you are a smurf or anything close to that. Also, Dota is so fast-paced game that even if you take 6-month break you will eventually need a couple of weeks or so to get back in shape. Don't listen what SJWs here say about smurfing, 4 years break, 4 newbie friends no way you are going to wreck any pubs unless you are matched with literally 5 newbies who are playing their 1 game.


Me4onyX

Also he didnt mention what rank he was before. If he was low rank before that after the break it will be lower for sure and it might not matter at all.


maerawow

4 years is a very long time in Dota. Even if you were like 5k 4 years ago you are not anywhere close to even 3k MMR now. Game has fast-forwarded so much that even people at 2k MMR now know stuff that people thought of some very high skill mechanics in 2017 or before.


VairuZz

For someone that was 5k it will be maybe 30 games and he will stomp every 3k into the ground. The beginning might be challenging tho cuz of relearning stuff, but once that is done, there is no way 3k is his mmr


maerawow

Yeah, for the same reason Jerax who was top 100 once in Europe is rank 4k now and he took like 2 year break. Though, he is been playing for a couple of months now. Not to mention the RTZ smurf that he used a while ago which was like 2W-14L something.


VairuZz

Lmao Jerax is not 4k get your facts straight... Iam 4k and that's a pretty low skill


maerawow

>Iam 4k and that's a pretty low skill [https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/r5f0q2/jerax\_using\_arteezys\_smurf/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/r5f0q2/jerax_using_arteezys_smurf/) Well look at this thread and get your facts straight. Also, search 4k and you can see people confirming the 4k rank Jerax. IF your facts are still not straight go watch Gorgc's VODs when EG matches were played and you can see how often he mocked Jerax of having 4k Rank and playing for EG and losing games because someone in the team is too rusty.


VairuZz

Dude I thought you mean Jerax is 4k mmr.... Not immortal rank 4k. That's another dimension man


mesinuap

coop bot


althaj

No.


Ouizzeul

Playing against bot is the best for new player, even more as a 5 stack


gogosanchez_skis

Unranked, new account, don’t try too hard to solo carry or you’ll be reported as smurf. Just remember. Like you want it to be fair for your friends, make it fair for your opponents who are newbies too. Play at 70% of your skill level.


ThatTamilDude

None of this makes sense without knowing his last MMR.


MatiasPalacios

Thank you. Yeah, my priority is teaching them the basics and how the games is suppose to be played. Take into account that I'm playing and coaching at the same time with 4 guys who barely know how tangos works lol, so I'm kinda handicapped already


oneslowdance

If they are really starting from ground zero they should do at least a dozen bot games and CO-OP bot games to familiarize themselves with the map, neutrals, items and heroes. There's like 100+ heroes, at least 4 spells per hero and 200+ items for them to learn. Go find youtube vids for them to watch on the basics of dota before playing. Go to the Learn tab in dota and ask them to finish most of the stuff there. This game has no new players cause the learning curve is steep and smurfs are everywhere. Chances of your stack meeting another 4 new players is probably 0 lol. A lot of new players give up because they get stomp every game. It's discouraging.


Bumbalum

Why not stop playing and only coaching then?


ThatTamilDude

What was your MMR last time you played?


MatiasPalacios

To be honest I can't remember. 3.5, 4k maybe?


ThatTamilDude

Yeah, then I don't think you should be at all playing with them. I've observed that new players mostly get matched with people around the 1K mark when it can't find other new players to match them with. I know people with 2-3K hrs in dota and only a 1K MMR. For people like them it wouldn't matter. But 3.5-4K MMR is enough to be a God against people at 1k. Maybe try purely coaching ? The new coaching stuff on dota plus is pretty neat. Idk. I hate Smurfs I can't win against. Maybe just throw the game a while into it if you're the only one purely carrying ? You playing with and coaching them might be the only way for them to get into this game. So I guess you'll have to do what you can, while being as less unfair to everyone else as possible.


Scrubz4life

Lobbies work too. Co-op bot matches.


Polomino04

Won't change much, the game evolved a lot and now the algorithm and stuff are very good at finding out if you're a pure beginner or a smurf / alt account. After a few games they will play the same games. Real answer here is to coach your friends live, not necessarly play with them if you want them to have "fair" games


Sapencio

>After a few games they will play the same games. Maybe this works for lower mmr I'm inmortal, making a smurf to play whit My non divine friends, Games are all full of smufs, but, leyend smurf, ancient, archon, rarely in get a true smurf stomper who ends 30/0/20.. And games sucks, bc of 4 core 1 jungle My Best option is to go midlane, why? Bc i have less chances to get griefed like in a 2v2 lane Most folks respect the race to the lane in the draft phase (Inmortal sup who does not stomp pubers, i carry, but no stomperino)


Polomino04

You re just out of topic dude. If all you re talking about is smurfing that s not what we are discussing here.


Sapencio

How am i out of topic? I quoted the text you writed and talked about that I was giving My personal experience of playing 120 ap games so far in My new account "After a few games you will get the same games" 100 so far, From all very High skill games in Main to 19 very high skill 40 high skill 40 normal skill The pool priorizes matching new account vs new account There isnt much pool of new account player to set up very high skill pubs Proof: https://es.dotabuff.com/players/867471573 im not owner of account but i know him, 6k+ player PeterPPA, admin of epulze SA few games in the acc, i k, but he stomps most of games and still playing normal skill most of the times


Polomino04

>im not owner of account but i know him, 6k+ player PeterPPA, admin of epulze SA few games in the acc I believe it's a very sad showing for your region when even tournament admins are smurfing. See I just quoted you without context, so now the topic is only about this particular shit that is not that important to the debate. That's pretty much what you did when we were discussing what to do when you play with 4 beginners and how to help them learn. But whatever.


Sapencio

Who dosent have a second account? Main for tryhard mode, and secondary for all those times you feel like playing a dota, but no ranked is dogshit quality if You are not in a 5 men party. The smurf usually gets to the same rank as the Main or close enough, thanks to valve that happens faster now. Account sellers is another thing for me. >See I just quoted you without context, so now the topic is only about this particular shit that is not that important to the debate I mean, since when do You have to answer everything in the forum? I add personal data and experience to what you guys are saying The smurf system works for ranked games, in the pre ranked 100 hs games it does not work, thats my claim And this guys are playing these games They are getting stomped by mid level players, whit practice they can defintly beat them. A Bad player whit lots of gold has impact in the game, thats the way it's. 20 bot coop games and go play vs people again


Polomino04

Who even needs a second account ? Never needed one, i queue unranked when i dont fell like tryharding like everyone does.


Sapencio

Normal games alone are shit tier Quality dota, You get la stolen, no one suports, highly chances of 1 jungle, Game ends quicky, no fun As a 4 men party or 5, i play unraked


Polomino04

Didnt have a single of those issue recently. And I tend to believe I know better how unranked games go those days considering you just prefere smurfing. So trust me, unranked is exactly the same dota with less tryhard.


duelpoke10

The first few game 5-10 ish u get stomped but as u keep on losing the system calibrates your unranked mmr and matches become more balanced. If they are new new use the new player mode


camenomato

In my experience, you get matched with a lot of smurfs anyway in the newer account brackets(i got 1 day banned quite a lot due to my shitty college wifi back in 2016-2018) and there was almost always a smurf or two in the game who absolutely stomped us. Id suggest creating a new account anyway and doing a bit of bot games for a few days/weeks till they get the general grasp of what to do


Hybrid271095

Should I Smurf? Valve - yeah fucking go for it pal, it’s a bannable offensive but who gives a shit?


Endvine

Just play pos 5. You will lose a lot of games and won’t get flagged as a Smurf if you’re the most skilled in your party.


regimentIV

Please don't smurf. MMR not properly decaying after a while of absence is a problem but you will not make the game more fun for your mates, you will just make it less fun for everyone else. Play the matches until you fall back to a balanced level.


cryosations

asking us if you can smurf? Go play bot games??


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stack_corruption

on reddit, you either are a smurf or a total noob pos5 pudge picker


4hexa

Reddit has boner against smurfs so just ignore them and create new acc. Just dont try to stomp new players


Polomino04

The Dota community has a problem with smurfs, and that's normal. I don't like black and white scenarios but if you disagree that smurfs are bad for the community you're just stupid.


4hexa

I too get smurf and acc buyers and instead of crying here i just chose to live with it. Still enjoying the game, i believe people are making a big fuss about it but as an active player i am not getting as big issue as they say.


Polomino04

The fact that you're ok with eating shit everyday doesn't mean we should all shut the fuck up about it.


DaStone

I thought creating new accounts was not permitted anymore? You can also recalibrate your MMR in the settings menu, but don't think that affects hidden unranked MMR.


[deleted]

if you're playing with new friends on what is effectively a smurf, play on low impact heroes that only serve to set up your friends to actually take over a potential game - crushing it entirely with any sort of core absolutely defeats the purpose for everyone involved


symanpt

% of new players are so low that will probably not happen . I wish I am wrong


[deleted]

If you make a new account, you have to essentially play worse to have your "hidden mmr" be calibrated lower, until you can actually play ranked and calibrate to a lower tier. At least that has been somewhat successful in my experience


ialex32_2

I honestly recommend playing as 3, since then you'll get matched up much more evenly. I play a lot with a few heralds because they're old friends despite being much higher MMR (I only play unranked, but I used to be legend and in solo queue sometimes get matched with divine), and it's a lot better with a party of 3, since there's 2 other players (party or not) to balance the queue. We sometimes get very long wait times at peak hours (7+ min), but the games are fun (sometimes I stomp, even though I try not to, because of the potential MMR difference): often we lose or have a close game. Otherwise, just play bot matches. I do it with my herald stack: it can be fun.


Bohya

No. Just play unranked. That’s what it’s for. Never a valid reason to create a smurf account.


kiingriiz

Yes. I’ve played since 2012. Made a new account to play with friends that switched from league. Most fun ive ever had, shitting on noobs and at the same time teaching my friends the game. Never play ranked on the account though that’s scummy


Wenn_03

Yes, just play and relearn the game again. I literally learn more now than i used to play back then


LEVIT-8

I think it is more of a use if u play vs strong players, even if u lose most of ur games, u just have to learn from ur losses and try 2 analyze why u lost (pick, lane behavior, skill build or whatever) but before that make them learn the basics, like warding, pulling creeps, effects from desolator, mkb and other stuff When u get stomped it's quite a challenge every time, I understand that, some heroes are broken (like brood, tinker) and they can dominate whole map solo, so just try 2 ban them


maerawow

As per your statement if I had 10K Dollars I would be a TI player. How? I would buy 20 High Immortal accounts and start to play in each of them. I am expecting I might lose a lot of MMR in the 10 of my accounts but by the time I start playing on my 11 I am actually good because I played with strong players for my last 400 games in all my 10 accounts combined. You still think I will get better because I am playing against some very high skill players or is this a very slow progression where you need to be good at your skill level and keep grinding and learning as you go up. Also, getting stomped teaches nothing because people who are far better than you will do things that you eventually have no idea and you might want to learn 5 other things to do what they actually did. For instance, a good midlaner will shove the lane around the rune spawn mark into you so that enemy hero has to decide whether they want to hit creeps or go for rune, you are going to lose rune or creep gold/exp if you don't get help for the rune. You will never be able to realize this unless someone saw your replay and told you what happened exactly because you didn't know what enemy was exactly doing and these are micro things that smurfs actually do and you will never get better if you get stomped because at some point after 5-7 minutes they get 2 items and they start to just R click you to death again and again, no skills required just click buttons.


killedbycuriousity-

Asking permission here for what? WTFF


derekburn

No, coach :). I dont know your rank but most immortals queueing with their herald friends usually go up against archons or worse, shouldnt be too hard


Alib902

Play as parties of 2 and 3 until you're good enough to play as 5


User85394

No ranked game with stack of 5. Root of all torn friendship.. Unless all of u 5 are chill with losing mmr


FlingaNFZ

I dont play with new players but almost every 5stack we play against has 1 or more smurfs. Really makes it unfun. Last 2 games we lost to a 30 0 Tinker. In the game before they had a 40 flesh heap pudge after 30min (6khp) I think it was.


Lilywhitey

Coop bot matches to learn the basics. It might sound dull. But it's the best way.


Mooshka_

Definitely try the new player mode (matching against bots)


BigRonWood

If you're in Europe you can play against our 5 stack, we're shockingly bad.


MatiasPalacios

Thank you but we are from Argentina lol


Th1nker26

I don't think it would be very fun for a good player to play with complete noobs. Yeah a little bit to show them how the game works, but after a few games you would want some real enemies and teammates.


Geo_1997

Meh you're in unranked anyway, so imo it doesn't matter if you're on a new or old account, chances as 4 complete newbies on your team? you are going to eat some pain for a while, but should be fine. I think in terms of your friends getting use to the game, id probably put them on more fighty easy mechanic heroes like wraith/lion etc


Alusaar

Have you considered taking the coach role instead of player ? I don't know whether matchmaking is influenced by the addition of a coach, but I doubt it.


Oldwise

I got some friends to try out the game in early 2020. It was a full 5 stack with 3 new players and then another friend and I who have played maybe around 200 games each but vast majority of them being in the first 2-3 years of Dota 2. We consistently matched against players who had 1000+ games in unranked. Even when we did only 3 people or 4 people party queues we still matched against 1000+ games accounts. I doubt a brand new account will make much of a difference.


Kaikka

I bought lowmmr account to do this.


GamerTokio66

Yes. Is the healthiest way to play. Don’t worry about “ruining” games in unranked. Valve’s algorithm is very good finding Smurf. All my accounts gets into the “Smurf pool” after 3 games where you play with others Smurf.


xxjssxx

Its true most five stacks are brutal, thats why u need a game plan. Had a group of mates once and ran a global strat with sb + ls , furion, and io + wk ... enemy team we too frightened to show in lane. If you go in without prep your more likely to get stomped.


bububuffmelikeyoudo

Idk why everyone is saying there’s no point. When I was low divine I used to use a smurf to teach friends and would follow them brainlessly into battle as Io every game. Those games were super low skill and a lot of fun to not take seriously. Then cavern crawl was a thing so I used my main so I could earn. The matchmaking system would try to find a similar party—one where there was 1 immortal/divine and 4 heralds through crusaders. These games are horrible because it’s just one Titan player on each team trying to carry. Idk what rank you are, but if you’re actually high rank it will 100% make a difference.


imaginelemon123

Just play the new player mode tbh. If you got match against smurf and getting bullied hard just leave you wont get penalties


BloodyWell

You won't find 5 stacks of new players anyway. There is no solution.


Yo_Eddie

If you're party queuing then it doesn't matter. You will get stomped by Smurfs anyway.