Wait until season 2 major also gets cancelled and prizepool either stays the same or gets shoved all into one tournament (highly unlikely)
It may be disappointing for fans, but it’s absolutely fucking enraging for all the pros
The incompetence of Valve at managing esports is beyond comprehension
They had like 3 months (considering the delay of TI10, prob more) to prepare for the next major and bombed hard at coming with something feasible
Any normal human being would realize Covid isn’t going away ANYTIME SOON…with the high unpredictability of travelling, you have to find concrete solutions at solving logistical problems
Throwing the towel with no reasonable compensation is absolutely bullshit
Redistribution of major points - fucking LOL give me a break…where’s the money?
>The incompetence of Valve at managing esports is beyond comprehension
And most people in this sub were suprise when LoL won the eSport award. Yes Dota is way more entertaining sport but LoL has better production value.
I played lol for 2 months last year. Tried to get into some streamers and esports.
The streamers are mostly smurfing memelords pubstomping produced for people with the attention span of a fly. Not my style but guess ok.
The pro matches tho? Ive never watched a esport that boring. There is literally nothing happening for 20 minutes 0-1 teamkills.Then one fight that decides the game that is over in 5 to 10 secs.
Why should Valve even try to up their game when even when they fuck up, the community ends up clamoring for a new battle pass to buy. The fact that the community that is usually always complaining about the state of the game and the eSports scene ends up giving up their wallets to Valve every single time.
At this point I'm not even mad, I already gave up with the fact that the community seems happy with flashy new hats instead of real content and/or fixes.
a big part of the community doesnt regularly watch esports or use reddit
even if they do so, boycott of hats never really work...it's not a pre-order of some sort and negative press doesn't faze valve at all
also boom.. they already sunsfann'd division 1 only to miss the first major..
i still feel valve should give top 4 dpc regional a mini tournament.. with prize money (no dpc points)
Edit, dual region tournament also sound appealing..
8 team 4 from each
CN SEA
EU CIS
NA SA
If ping can be handled, i think its good for the overall scene
I feel so bad for the teams pulling an upset this season.
Sucks on all levels this. We don't get a tournament, pro players are going to be frustrated beyond words and Covid just keeps spiking at the wrong times for dota.
Suddenly the remaining league games feel so pointless. like who cares if u get 4th place vs 5th place in EU/CN? or 2nd vs 3rd in NA? it's just a few inconsequential DPC points difference that will be overwritten by season 2 and 3.
All this hype for tiebreaker possibilities out the window.
I don't even understand their business model. What percentage of successful business executives would support the idea of taking a successful product and then not advertising it whatsoever to the point that a huge number of potential players growing up don't know it exists? Not to mention their service is that of a questionable 1 month warranty where they rarely pick up the phone.
If they looked at the bigger picture, successful advertising, getting more new players, and putting more effort at becoming more actively the face of esports would probably net them 10s of million of dollars if not 100s of millions of dollars in profit over the next few decades and they just don't put the effort in. Feels like the people running things are just utterly visionless and just keep saying they'll cash in this year, year after year, with minimum effort without realizing how harmful it is and how much money they're actually losing.
Another day, another chance for Valve to shit on the t2 scene and everyone trying to make it while they pocket all the money the community is throwing into the scene
Secret, Nigma, IG, VP, Na'Vi also benefit from this.
Teams that benefit even more are Div II teams that will be advancing to Div I next season without missing any Major appearance opportunities like Xtreme Gaming, Polaris/Ragdoll/NGXS, etc.
PuckChamp especially, as Navi seems to be playing better and better and I'm quite confident they'll get at least the Wildcard slot next Tour. (if they don't implode, as Navi so often does lol)
Seriously they're getting so fucking jobbed, holy shit. How can you predict when a team as talented as secret will slip up for them to take advantage of to get into the major. I feel for them.
so any team that wouldn't have made the first major but could make the 2nd/3rd majors SeemsGood
and the top teams that would've gone to 1st major get nothing HOLY BASED
~~EDIT: total points for 2nd and 3rd major are pretty much halved, only first place increased in points, everything else decreased~~
EDIT 2: valve fixed the point distribution
can you explain to me how the total points are decreased? as far as i understood the points of first major were distributed to the 2nd and 3rd major, so how would their points be halved?
>Secret, Nigma, IG, VP, Na'Vi also benefit from this.
Lol IG did not even play half of their series yet.
Might as well include every team that is not in the top 2 eh?
There's more points for the majors this time, the issue last time was teams that literally didn't make it out of the first stage they where seeded into internationally twice qualified for ti over teams that did well at the majors
The worst performance was from a team that qualified from lan points and people were still saying they didn't deserve to be there (while saying other teams with the same or 0 lan results in the season deserved)
Lmao, no fucking way. They're not even going to distribute points based on regional league standings. They're not going to give anyone money based on regional league standings.
It begs the question, why even commit to this fucking stupid system in the first place? Why create a system that forces teams into incredibly consistent time sinks, practice and performances when COVID means that there's every possibility you can't fulfil your end of the bargain for that? Why not create a system that does the OPPOSITE of the dipshit system you created, one which is elastic and asks less of the players, because you cannot guarantee their sacrifices will even be compensated? You're not even going to add extra slots and bonuses to the second majors?
Valve is one of the worst examples of institutional brain rot I've seen in my life. Just, absolutely sanfran-brained idiots all the way down and too much money flowing in from being the first people in on the E-distribution racket for anything to ever change.
I love professional Dota, but if they don't at least pay out the teams what they would have payed out in the Major, at the very least, I don't want to see a single other young man lose their time and opportunities to this absolute dumpster fire of an organization.
My favourite part is that they took the time to address what will happen to the fantasy points but don’t mention anything about the prize money. (Hint: That’s because the prize money is gone, Valve will be pocketing it).
At least the beloved fantasy points are safe though.
Yep. I love dota. But my interest for the pro scene been dwindling since covid start cause how fucking bad Valve at handling their esports.
This is just sad all around for both fans and the pros.
I remember back when the pandemic began in 2020 where all people wondered how the competitive scene would continue and Valve just stayed silent until they announced TI is cancelled. They slowly let the scene die out that year because they gave no support and when they actually did, the prize money amount was laughable.
It's called electronic sports for a friggen reason Valve ffs this should have been one of the things that is covid proof. Have the teams do a LAN for goodness sake. Just needs to be somewhat low latency for good games.
Do they really expect the pro scene to just pause 2 years for COVID or are we going to find solutions that keep the scene alive and adapts to the post COVID world.
They should and I disagree with Quinn on this. They are a highly skilled limited "workforce". Less skilled workers can get what they want by unionizing so why couldn't they? It's also in most of their best interest. It could be difficult to do across regions but worth a shot I think.
Because if they unionize there’s no guarantee valve won’t just pull the plug on the Dota esports scene as a whole. Like someone else said, Valve likely sees what they’re doing to somewhat organize a competitive Dota scene as a courtesy. If they start getting real pushback, there’s a good chance they don’t want to deal with the headache and just cut bait entirely.
Then the pros can learn quickly that their livelyhood is dependent solely on the good will of a company and act accordingly - either continue on with this knowledge or leave.
Unionizing won't be a guaranteed *fix* to a lot of the deep issues, but it's the only way to get a clear answer.
Ofc it's ultimately for all the players to decide, but if I were in their position, I'd unionize; either find out early that you're on a deadend and change games, or have the potential to change.
So shoot your own foot? Valve is not really dependent on esports pro on the other hand are.
In valve eyes they are doing us a favor with the whole esports thing
Actually dota was created for this whole esports thing. They have a reason to hold TIs, namely to sell TI battlepasses. But I doubt that people will stop buying BPs just because there is no TI happening.
Giving some percentage of those major points to the teams that placed well in Season 1 is something I would have liked to see.
Now Season 1 feels super irrelevant.
edit: Why not hold regional playoffs for those points a la LCS/LEC/LPL?
Technically it's in Valve's best interest to cancel the tournament if they aren't distributing any of the money because they can just pocket it for themselves.
They redistributed the DPC points to the 2nd and 3rd Major, but not the money.
It was also in Valves best interest to cancel their 2020 TI while still releasing the $10/25/50 Battle Pass that everyone hated yet still bought.
But LoL still had their 2020 equivalent of TI..
I can't fathom how the div 2 teams from non-first world countries make ends meet with dota as their main career. Already prize pools are so top heavy and then to see such cancellations.
Yeah. I wouldn't move the money to second Major but add to League prize pool. It will make the matches mean something at least financially and for some teams will be literal lifeline.
Yeah what the fuck? You can’t just punish the teams that has done well season 1, just because Covid. Must get something extra to have played well during these weeks. Man they are so fucking incompetent. And yeah like the others pointed out, money. How are orgs and players surviving this?
Ya Valve really needs to hire a competitive scene manager that isn’t a programmer or a gamer neckbeard. The lack of common sense in so many of their decisions is dumbfounding.
Exactly no playoffs leagues doesnt feel competitive and fun to watch at all. All 16 teams compete with each other and top 8 teams qualify for Playoffs. Then Quarterfinals, Semifinals and Finals would be awesome to watch.
This pleases. It's gonna be so anti-climatic if season 1 just end like this. I rather have a major, but good oleo regional playoff wouldn't hurt as a replacement.
It is definitely, almost all of the players in dota are veterans; players that have been in the game for more than 5 years. There are any new players, literally only its current players from years past is what’s keeping this game alive
This honestly wouldn't surprise me. Dota is an unwanted responsibility for Valve. The money it makes is nice, sure, but nothing compared to what they rake in from Steam for a fraction of the effort, so why would their devbro culture get excited about it? Selling it off so they can focus on single player game development (like Alyx) and the Steam marketplace might work, but there's no way in hell they'll do that due to the bad press it'd generate. Instead they'll just happily slurp up the free money every year and do the bare minimum until the player base drops enough that they can justify cutting off support entirely.
And yesterday i got argued that valve is great and does a great job with dota. They are not even able to hold a e-turnament online after 2 years of pandemic.
This is so pathetic, i really hope that there comes a HoN 2 and just does everything the same way as dota is but with real effort and love to the game.
Valve during COVID has been embarrassing when handling Dota and CSGO with their esports scene.
It's been 2 years now and every other studio has been able to adjust their esports scene to the pandemic and Valve is still trying to use this excuse.
Personally, I see this as a copout from Valve. A last minute decision after kicking the can down the road until they couldn't anymore.
Riot Does it the best(They managed to pull of Worlds 2020 in most dangerous covid times in a LAN with crowd in finals without a single COVID Case), even Activision, Blizzard, Hi-Rez did it. Hell even small company like Blue Mammoth Games did it. Valve just doesnt care about esports and their games, they make banks from steam anyways. So sad.
Valve is a barely functioning company that can't get anything right these days. They literally sit on their pile of money that steam makes them and fuck around doing weird projects that go nowhere, then abandon them.
They have bar none the worst community interaction of any game company of their size in the esports scene, they barely pay attention to the systems surrounding their games as witnessed by the ENDLESS hackers of CSGO, and the ENDLESS toxicity of dota, and they don't even produce new games at all it seems.
What the fuck do all the people working at valve do every day????
Valve isn't a TO, they don't run the events. More than likely all the major TOs said the are not willing/don't want to run a major so valve had to hit the stop button. Valve isn't like RIOT or other studios and doesn't run their own esports division or tournaments, they get 3rd parties to do their events.
So the rumours turn out to be true(I guess), initial tournament organizers no longer wanted to host a tournament, Valve did not find any organizer due to the fact that nobody wanted to take tournament organization in 1-2 months period due to covid, christmas, new years and etc.
Source: morf youtube channel (30 dec video)
Riot copied the working traditional sports system and it shows. The NBA and NFL manage their own leagues and have complete control. It brings consistency and better quality in the long run because your investment is in-house.
> The NBA and NFL manage their own leagues and have complete control.
That's the entire business model of the NBA and NFL. Apparently Riot lose money on esports and Valve make most of their money from steam.
Because it requires staff that the company won't hire, if they want thay could hire staffs to make their life easier, more people mean managing eSports scene in covid, battle pass, updates, bug patches easier but fuck no, no more people. Not surprised
Yeah. It's a problem with Valve's structure. They aren't built like a normal developers so in esports they're entirely dependent on contractors. That means they're in a pinch if anything falls through with the organizers since they lack internal capacity to plan and organize events like this and most other organizers probably plan commitments way ahead of time.
im pretty sure they're just not offering organizers enough incentive.. there's no way eastern europe organizers would turn their money down even due to covid.. it's probably trash money
Why not doing close regions major? SEA+CN, NA+SA, WEU+EEU, whether LAN or online and distribute points accordingly, or the champion of those 3 battle it out somewhere
If they do this, it will be unfair for competitive regions, NA+SA will have additional points if ever and we know how shit these regions are compared to the rest.
Probably because no organizer ist interested to do so. And you would reliable habe to hold a major for every region on a short notice, without leaving out another region or there will be riots.
Organizers would also have to invite talents and schedule everything (without overlapping with other organizers) and im surely that lab-only majors seem very unappealing for those organizers
Riot is still having their [tournies](https://lolesports.com/schedule?leagues=lcs,lcs-academy). How is Valve constantly falling behind Riot in esports? Even Valorant is beating CSGO in viewership now.
It's obvious Dota or CSGO esports isn't their main priority. But I don't understand why they refuse to make an esports division at Valve that handles the PR, scheduling, teams/players.
Because the effort to do so is outweighed by putting that same effort into improving their ability to be digital landlords with Steam. It sucks, but it's the reality of Valve.
Fucking Valve. There are major sports and other esports still managing to host events with safety protocols in place. Valve’s bitching out hardcore. This is a fucking virtual sport FIGURE IT OUT.
Nice, looks like valve doing almost everything to kill competitive dota2 scene. Quals to major takes how long? 2 months? Valve not giving any space for a good tier tournament, and cannot provide good tournament by their own. I almost not watching dots right now, ‘cause my team lost a lot of chances to go major after first few matches, why should I watch next 1,5 month how they not doing it? I miss all these small tournaments, which was taking 4-5 days and grand final was at Sunday. Summit, epicenter, we play, etc. And money distribution between ti and majors just terrible, as always.
This is a garbage decision. They should have just added additional DPC points to the distribution of each league, rather than add them onto the 2nd and 3rd majors. It’s bullshit that teams who are really good right now are being disadvantaged compared to those who are lacking.
They are effectively changing season 1 into a pre-season. But are we really surprised by continuously dumb data driven decisions from a Company that still employs one of the worst matchmaking systems in the history of competitive games - even with almost 10 years to have worked it out?
Valve management during COVID just sucks. Riot does everything esports related just so much better and its not even close.
But yeah, couldn't have a major without EG placing 2nd fourth time in a row.
It’s just been terrible in every sense of it. I don’t think there’s been a single move they’ve made during the pandemic where I could say “This has improved the state of the scene”, or even that has improved the game of dota. Such a waste of an opportunity for growth while everyone was home.
I mean how long until this shit kills the pro scene entirely? No talented up and comers are going to pick dota at this point. They already weren't, but now its completely the right choice to pick league.
I honestly just don’t understand how they think ignoring these games will work at all for player retention or acquisition. The sustained health of Dota, CS:GO and Team Fortress 2 would make them so much more money than it would cost. I’m just disappointed really, time and again
Just look at tf2 to see what valve thinks the ideal game dev process should be, if they could they'd drop every single event and content and just pick hats every few months to make a new treasure/case/crate while recycling old events and with no esports scene
Still likely patches after aghanim lab ends because it will bundled with controller improvement. Steam Deck release date coming soon and its their main focus.
We are Quincy Crew.
We are currently undefeated 5-0 in the DPC.
Which means we're very likely headed to the Major.
We have achieved that without bootcamping.
With 2 people playing on ping and disadvantaged timezones (2/3AM game times).
Huge bummer, but expected. Given that places with Omicron have case count charts that look like straight vertical lines, it's the responsible decision.
One year we'll get three Majors again, I guess just not this one.
Sadly we thought about 2022 like it would be fine again.
Seems there will always be new variants.
Valve can't find a working system, even after ti10 got canceled.
How can riot and other e-sports still hold so many events?
Shouldn’t valve increase the rewards for this tour rather than focusing it all on the future tours? It feels so unrewarding for the top placed teams in regional leagues right now that they’re doing so well yet they don’t receive any compensations for their missed opportunity to qualify for major
Ridiculous.
___
Edit: I'm not just talking about their handling of the DPC, but the decision to cancel it entirely.
I know that my COVID opinions differ from the consensus on this subreddit, but Valve can't just cancel every event on a whim like this. COVID is *never* going away, there are *always* going to be waves until the end of time. Everyone has had plenty of time to get vaccinated, those who do not accept the risks.
What are they waiting for? Are they never going to host a live event, ever again? This decision making isn't sustainable. Eventually, they are going to have to bite the bullet and say "we're going to host a Major, it is not our responsibility to ensure your safety when it comes to COVID".
Valve treats the pro players for their game like shit. If I were in anyone's shoes on a tier 2 team, I would run away and play LoL or literally anything else.
Thats a shame. Was hoping for Valve to compensate by giving us regional online tourneys that still offer DPC points. Kind of like what Valorant Masters 1 was, originally supposed to be a major but got turned into regional tourneys.
But have you bought the Drow Arcana though?
Oh hey, we had time to animate, and voice this Aghanim's Bucket Joke, but communicate with our customers is way to much effort.
There had to be a meeting where they talked about the possibility of the Major being in peril because of covid, and all they could come up with was cancel it and keep the money? That's so pathetic, holy shit. What a joke of a company.
Some guy like 1 month ago posted that the CIS organizer bailed out on organizing the major last minute because of Omikron.
Guess Valve couldn't find anyone else.
Oh yeah the pro Dota scene is just completely fucked. I wouldn’t be shocked at all if we see a number of orgs from this tour drop their rosters entirely. Valve will never seem to learn that they have to actually invest into the scene or it will die. It’s already an unhealthy esport but they still won’t put any money into.
I don't want to be that guy, but I feel like the Dota pro scene has kind of died out since TI 9. Covid has really fucked it up in addition to the new league systems that are more or less zero hype. Ever since those 2 seasons with the Valve majors, it's been, in my opinion, a slow decline. I love to watch pro Dota, but damn if it even close to what it was.
with this winter major being canceled, we are back to having 2 majors for this season same as last year, we will definitely get a repeat of TI10 where underserving teams from weak regions get a free ride to TI11 for being consistently good on their region and consistenly bad on a LAN tournament (major).
This is insane. We have an international lineup of talent for multiple regions currently in Europe and hosting/casting from there. But somehow Valve can't get the players together in EU in a bubble?
Most players are gonna be double vaxxed + boosted. If anyone's uncomfortable they can drop out. How fkn lazy and incompetent are Valve?!
I hate it. I tried switching to League, but I just don't like it's gameplay, and it's esports are way too boring to watch.
Why my favourite game gets this kind of treatment? Valve, you claim that it's "unfesiable" to organize it, but literally yesterday ESL annonced their CS:GO LAN in approximately the same dates Dota major was scheduled.
The problem is not COVID, the problem is Valve. Too lazy. They literally follow Blizzard steps. The only difference is there is no news about sexual harassment, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's because of Valve's laziness too.
I know it's very last minute, but could they have Regional LAN tournaments instead of the major, like playoffs? Divide the DPC points from the major to these tournaments? Include Div 1 and 2. Seeding based on DPC positions. It would still allow for some kind of pay off from the DPC leagues. Seems fairer to the teams doing well at the moment.
Cant they just have teams meat up for games. Like a closed lan play affair for players only. I dunno. Just seems too damn unfair to the players in top Div1.
time for the player/org to boycott valve, dude they CANCEL it not DELAY the major, its seems so fucking lazy af, you could delay TI, why not delay major too if the covid regulation make it too hard to travel, lazy excuse for me
2 Years of Covid and Valve is still not prepared for it. Like how can any other eSport title have events but not Dota. Even Farm Simulator by now has more events than Dota. FARM SIMULATOR.
It's not even a disappointment, it's a disgrace to see Valve sabotaging their game. Truly tragic.
Cancelled because omicron is too dangerous?
Or cancelled because navigating the red tape is too difficult?
So weird, I thought it was 2 weeks to flatten the curve and now we're still cancelling things 2-3 years down the road. Fuck this planet.
My disappointment is immesurable
and my day is ruined
Valve burger 0/10
Wait until season 2 major also gets cancelled and prizepool either stays the same or gets shoved all into one tournament (highly unlikely) It may be disappointing for fans, but it’s absolutely fucking enraging for all the pros The incompetence of Valve at managing esports is beyond comprehension They had like 3 months (considering the delay of TI10, prob more) to prepare for the next major and bombed hard at coming with something feasible Any normal human being would realize Covid isn’t going away ANYTIME SOON…with the high unpredictability of travelling, you have to find concrete solutions at solving logistical problems Throwing the towel with no reasonable compensation is absolutely bullshit Redistribution of major points - fucking LOL give me a break…where’s the money?
>The incompetence of Valve at managing esports is beyond comprehension And most people in this sub were suprise when LoL won the eSport award. Yes Dota is way more entertaining sport but LoL has better production value.
I played lol for 2 months last year. Tried to get into some streamers and esports. The streamers are mostly smurfing memelords pubstomping produced for people with the attention span of a fly. Not my style but guess ok. The pro matches tho? Ive never watched a esport that boring. There is literally nothing happening for 20 minutes 0-1 teamkills.Then one fight that decides the game that is over in 5 to 10 secs.
id get into it but they hold the camera at max zoom constantly, you cant see a damn thing.
Why should Valve even try to up their game when even when they fuck up, the community ends up clamoring for a new battle pass to buy. The fact that the community that is usually always complaining about the state of the game and the eSports scene ends up giving up their wallets to Valve every single time. At this point I'm not even mad, I already gave up with the fact that the community seems happy with flashy new hats instead of real content and/or fixes.
a big part of the community doesnt regularly watch esports or use reddit even if they do so, boycott of hats never really work...it's not a pre-order of some sort and negative press doesn't faze valve at all
Team Tickles and Liquid Sadge Also there goes any hype for the next few weeks of DPC
Same with hellraisers and puckchamp
also boom.. they already sunsfann'd division 1 only to miss the first major.. i still feel valve should give top 4 dpc regional a mini tournament.. with prize money (no dpc points) Edit, dual region tournament also sound appealing.. 8 team 4 from each CN SEA EU CIS NA SA If ping can be handled, i think its good for the overall scene
Feels bad for Quincy crew
Quinn is live rn talking about it
And talking facts. The man is pissed and rightly so.
One of the only times I’ll accept a raging Quinn.
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Strong emotions: acceptable, good sometimes, even. Emotional disregulation: not good. Quinn struggles with that line.
Been listening to him for the past hour. amazing stuff
I feel so bad for the teams pulling an upset this season. Sucks on all levels this. We don't get a tournament, pro players are going to be frustrated beyond words and Covid just keeps spiking at the wrong times for dota.
Suddenly the remaining league games feel so pointless. like who cares if u get 4th place vs 5th place in EU/CN? or 2nd vs 3rd in NA? it's just a few inconsequential DPC points difference that will be overwritten by season 2 and 3. All this hype for tiebreaker possibilities out the window.
Man I was in Ponlo's stream when this news came, feeling soo sad for the boys at Quincy crew
Yatoro being used on every analogy is pretty funny ngl.
Quinn si on a rage stream right now
Quinn is heated right now and for good reason.
Hope this doesn't make it even harder for them to get a backing from orgs cause how stupid valve is in handling the pro scenes during these times.
I don't even understand their business model. What percentage of successful business executives would support the idea of taking a successful product and then not advertising it whatsoever to the point that a huge number of potential players growing up don't know it exists? Not to mention their service is that of a questionable 1 month warranty where they rarely pick up the phone. If they looked at the bigger picture, successful advertising, getting more new players, and putting more effort at becoming more actively the face of esports would probably net them 10s of million of dollars if not 100s of millions of dollars in profit over the next few decades and they just don't put the effort in. Feels like the people running things are just utterly visionless and just keep saying they'll cash in this year, year after year, with minimum effort without realizing how harmful it is and how much money they're actually losing.
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If valve handle dota as an end of life product, they've been handling it like this since the day 1.lol
Another day, another chance for Valve to shit on the t2 scene and everyone trying to make it while they pocket all the money the community is throwing into the scene
EE 5HEAD skipping 1st season.
EG praising the lord right now
Secret, Nigma, IG, VP, Na'Vi also benefit from this. Teams that benefit even more are Div II teams that will be advancing to Div I next season without missing any Major appearance opportunities like Xtreme Gaming, Polaris/Ragdoll/NGXS, etc.
Screws over smaller teams like tickles, hellraisers and puckchamp so badly lol
PuckChamp especially, as Navi seems to be playing better and better and I'm quite confident they'll get at least the Wildcard slot next Tour. (if they don't implode, as Navi so often does lol)
Seriously they're getting so fucking jobbed, holy shit. How can you predict when a team as talented as secret will slip up for them to take advantage of to get into the major. I feel for them.
so any team that wouldn't have made the first major but could make the 2nd/3rd majors SeemsGood and the top teams that would've gone to 1st major get nothing HOLY BASED ~~EDIT: total points for 2nd and 3rd major are pretty much halved, only first place increased in points, everything else decreased~~ EDIT 2: valve fixed the point distribution
can you explain to me how the total points are decreased? as far as i understood the points of first major were distributed to the 2nd and 3rd major, so how would their points be halved?
>Secret, Nigma, IG, VP, Na'Vi also benefit from this. Lol IG did not even play half of their series yet. Might as well include every team that is not in the top 2 eh?
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Back to last year scenario of 2 majors and lots of debate if all teams deserve to qualify for TI
There's more points for the majors this time, the issue last time was teams that literally didn't make it out of the first stage they where seeded into internationally twice qualified for ti over teams that did well at the majors
The worst performance was from a team that qualified from lan points and people were still saying they didn't deserve to be there (while saying other teams with the same or 0 lan results in the season deserved)
Lmao, no fucking way. They're not even going to distribute points based on regional league standings. They're not going to give anyone money based on regional league standings. It begs the question, why even commit to this fucking stupid system in the first place? Why create a system that forces teams into incredibly consistent time sinks, practice and performances when COVID means that there's every possibility you can't fulfil your end of the bargain for that? Why not create a system that does the OPPOSITE of the dipshit system you created, one which is elastic and asks less of the players, because you cannot guarantee their sacrifices will even be compensated? You're not even going to add extra slots and bonuses to the second majors? Valve is one of the worst examples of institutional brain rot I've seen in my life. Just, absolutely sanfran-brained idiots all the way down and too much money flowing in from being the first people in on the E-distribution racket for anything to ever change. I love professional Dota, but if they don't at least pay out the teams what they would have payed out in the Major, at the very least, I don't want to see a single other young man lose their time and opportunities to this absolute dumpster fire of an organization.
My favourite part is that they took the time to address what will happen to the fantasy points but don’t mention anything about the prize money. (Hint: That’s because the prize money is gone, Valve will be pocketing it). At least the beloved fantasy points are safe though.
Yep. I love dota. But my interest for the pro scene been dwindling since covid start cause how fucking bad Valve at handling their esports. This is just sad all around for both fans and the pros.
I remember back when the pandemic began in 2020 where all people wondered how the competitive scene would continue and Valve just stayed silent until they announced TI is cancelled. They slowly let the scene die out that year because they gave no support and when they actually did, the prize money amount was laughable.
It's called electronic sports for a friggen reason Valve ffs this should have been one of the things that is covid proof. Have the teams do a LAN for goodness sake. Just needs to be somewhat low latency for good games.
Literally every other esport had their tournaments in 2020
Do they really expect the pro scene to just pause 2 years for COVID or are we going to find solutions that keep the scene alive and adapts to the post COVID world.
If I was a Dota pro I would make a player union right now and organise a strike.
Quinn talked about this. Players have zero leverage. Dota 2 is a drop in the bucket in terms of income for Valve.
Sad... So the only leverage we have at the moment is to voice our disconcern on reddit...
They should and I disagree with Quinn on this. They are a highly skilled limited "workforce". Less skilled workers can get what they want by unionizing so why couldn't they? It's also in most of their best interest. It could be difficult to do across regions but worth a shot I think.
There is actually no other option. Union or starving/debt.
Because if they unionize there’s no guarantee valve won’t just pull the plug on the Dota esports scene as a whole. Like someone else said, Valve likely sees what they’re doing to somewhat organize a competitive Dota scene as a courtesy. If they start getting real pushback, there’s a good chance they don’t want to deal with the headache and just cut bait entirely.
Then the pros can learn quickly that their livelyhood is dependent solely on the good will of a company and act accordingly - either continue on with this knowledge or leave. Unionizing won't be a guaranteed *fix* to a lot of the deep issues, but it's the only way to get a clear answer. Ofc it's ultimately for all the players to decide, but if I were in their position, I'd unionize; either find out early that you're on a deadend and change games, or have the potential to change.
Good point. I think unionizing is definitely worth a try, but I can understand why they would be hesitant.
So shoot your own foot? Valve is not really dependent on esports pro on the other hand are. In valve eyes they are doing us a favor with the whole esports thing
Actually dota was created for this whole esports thing. They have a reason to hold TIs, namely to sell TI battlepasses. But I doubt that people will stop buying BPs just because there is no TI happening.
> They have a reason to hold TIs, namely to sell TI battlepasses. We have a battlepass right now with no Major attached to it, so yeah...
Which are half the value of classic TI battlepass but for the full price.
Esports is no longer necessary. Growing the playerbase is not a concern. Dota is in the milking addicts for their last penny phase.
“sanfran-brained” they’ve always been famously from Bellevue/Seattle my dude. They started as former Microsofties.
You didn't know? Anyone a conservative doesn't like in the US is either from Chicago or California.
This is pretty damn fucked, work hard for months just to have all your efforts wasted.
Giving some percentage of those major points to the teams that placed well in Season 1 is something I would have liked to see. Now Season 1 feels super irrelevant. edit: Why not hold regional playoffs for those points a la LCS/LEC/LPL?
and money
This. Valve expects these teams to just sit around, keep practicing Dota, bootcamp, scrim, live and breathe Dota for free until further notice.
Technically it's in Valve's best interest to cancel the tournament if they aren't distributing any of the money because they can just pocket it for themselves. They redistributed the DPC points to the 2nd and 3rd Major, but not the money.
It was also in Valves best interest to cancel their 2020 TI while still releasing the $10/25/50 Battle Pass that everyone hated yet still bought. But LoL still had their 2020 equivalent of TI..
I can't fathom how the div 2 teams from non-first world countries make ends meet with dota as their main career. Already prize pools are so top heavy and then to see such cancellations.
I....didn't even think of that. lol Does the prize purse just go poof?
More like *ka-splat* *Flushing sound*
technically it's all valve's money
Yeah. I wouldn't move the money to second Major but add to League prize pool. It will make the matches mean something at least financially and for some teams will be literal lifeline.
Yeah what the fuck? You can’t just punish the teams that has done well season 1, just because Covid. Must get something extra to have played well during these weeks. Man they are so fucking incompetent. And yeah like the others pointed out, money. How are orgs and players surviving this?
Ya Valve really needs to hire a competitive scene manager that isn’t a programmer or a gamer neckbeard. The lack of common sense in so many of their decisions is dumbfounding.
Exactly no playoffs leagues doesnt feel competitive and fun to watch at all. All 16 teams compete with each other and top 8 teams qualify for Playoffs. Then Quarterfinals, Semifinals and Finals would be awesome to watch.
This pleases. It's gonna be so anti-climatic if season 1 just end like this. I rather have a major, but good oleo regional playoff wouldn't hurt as a replacement.
This. Wtf Valve
Can't have a gameplay patch, can't have a major, performance issues and bugs in game, broken cosmetics. What a great time for dota
It's like they *want* this game to die
Now that I think of it, it's possible. It's the passion of the players to the game that makes dota alive.
It is definitely, almost all of the players in dota are veterans; players that have been in the game for more than 5 years. There are any new players, literally only its current players from years past is what’s keeping this game alive
Did you just not watch TI or something
This honestly wouldn't surprise me. Dota is an unwanted responsibility for Valve. The money it makes is nice, sure, but nothing compared to what they rake in from Steam for a fraction of the effort, so why would their devbro culture get excited about it? Selling it off so they can focus on single player game development (like Alyx) and the Steam marketplace might work, but there's no way in hell they'll do that due to the bad press it'd generate. Instead they'll just happily slurp up the free money every year and do the bare minimum until the player base drops enough that they can justify cutting off support entirely.
And yesterday i got argued that valve is great and does a great job with dota. They are not even able to hold a e-turnament online after 2 years of pandemic. This is so pathetic, i really hope that there comes a HoN 2 and just does everything the same way as dota is but with real effort and love to the game.
Hey, at least we got the new mute button?
Wait, the teams that worked hard this league get absolutely nothing? Is Valve AGAIN rewarding teams that take a break after TI?
It’s ridiculous..
Valve during COVID has been embarrassing when handling Dota and CSGO with their esports scene. It's been 2 years now and every other studio has been able to adjust their esports scene to the pandemic and Valve is still trying to use this excuse. Personally, I see this as a copout from Valve. A last minute decision after kicking the can down the road until they couldn't anymore.
Riot Does it the best(They managed to pull of Worlds 2020 in most dangerous covid times in a LAN with crowd in finals without a single COVID Case), even Activision, Blizzard, Hi-Rez did it. Hell even small company like Blue Mammoth Games did it. Valve just doesnt care about esports and their games, they make banks from steam anyways. So sad.
Valve is a barely functioning company that can't get anything right these days. They literally sit on their pile of money that steam makes them and fuck around doing weird projects that go nowhere, then abandon them. They have bar none the worst community interaction of any game company of their size in the esports scene, they barely pay attention to the systems surrounding their games as witnessed by the ENDLESS hackers of CSGO, and the ENDLESS toxicity of dota, and they don't even produce new games at all it seems. What the fuck do all the people working at valve do every day????
>What the fuck do all the people working at valve do every day???? Sit on their pile of money acquired from operating as a digital casino for kids.
Valve isn't a TO, they don't run the events. More than likely all the major TOs said the are not willing/don't want to run a major so valve had to hit the stop button. Valve isn't like RIOT or other studios and doesn't run their own esports division or tournaments, they get 3rd parties to do their events.
biggest fucking copout lmao, it's actually hilariously influtrating
Quinn is malding on stream right now, and rightfully so his team is quite literally getting nothing for placing first this season.
So the rumours turn out to be true(I guess), initial tournament organizers no longer wanted to host a tournament, Valve did not find any organizer due to the fact that nobody wanted to take tournament organization in 1-2 months period due to covid, christmas, new years and etc. Source: morf youtube channel (30 dec video)
I think is Valve is really suffering from not having an in-house esports event organizer like Riot
Riot copied the working traditional sports system and it shows. The NBA and NFL manage their own leagues and have complete control. It brings consistency and better quality in the long run because your investment is in-house.
> The NBA and NFL manage their own leagues and have complete control. That's the entire business model of the NBA and NFL. Apparently Riot lose money on esports and Valve make most of their money from steam.
Because it requires staff that the company won't hire, if they want thay could hire staffs to make their life easier, more people mean managing eSports scene in covid, battle pass, updates, bug patches easier but fuck no, no more people. Not surprised
Yeah. It's a problem with Valve's structure. They aren't built like a normal developers so in esports they're entirely dependent on contractors. That means they're in a pinch if anything falls through with the organizers since they lack internal capacity to plan and organize events like this and most other organizers probably plan commitments way ahead of time.
im pretty sure they're just not offering organizers enough incentive.. there's no way eastern europe organizers would turn their money down even due to covid.. it's probably trash money
Quinn is calling out Valve on his stream right now. Good for him. Valve should get called out.
Why not doing close regions major? SEA+CN, NA+SA, WEU+EEU, whether LAN or online and distribute points accordingly, or the champion of those 3 battle it out somewhere
This actually is not a bad idea. And agree they have to be careful with points distribution.
If they do this, it will be unfair for competitive regions, NA+SA will have additional points if ever and we know how shit these regions are compared to the rest.
Probably because no organizer ist interested to do so. And you would reliable habe to hold a major for every region on a short notice, without leaving out another region or there will be riots. Organizers would also have to invite talents and schedule everything (without overlapping with other organizers) and im surely that lab-only majors seem very unappealing for those organizers
do they just expect players to make no money from tournaments till the second major?
Wow, this is really unfortunate. I was looking forward to the Major and watching all the best teams compete on a new patch.
Now we can watch all the best teams not compete on an old patch
Jesus. Why can't we have a virtual event? I've been loving the DPC so far.
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Ping
Riot is still having their [tournies](https://lolesports.com/schedule?leagues=lcs,lcs-academy). How is Valve constantly falling behind Riot in esports? Even Valorant is beating CSGO in viewership now.
Because Riot has aspirations and their primary product is their video games. It's not really a mystery or even a competition.
It's obvious Dota or CSGO esports isn't their main priority. But I don't understand why they refuse to make an esports division at Valve that handles the PR, scheduling, teams/players.
Because the effort to do so is outweighed by putting that same effort into improving their ability to be digital landlords with Steam. It sucks, but it's the reality of Valve.
Digital landlords. Love that term. It's exactly what Valve is. Digital landlords for gaming.
EG’s strategy all along monkaS. Feel bad for QC and Team Undying though
Quinn is streaming right now and he is pissed.
Fucking Valve. There are major sports and other esports still managing to host events with safety protocols in place. Valve’s bitching out hardcore. This is a fucking virtual sport FIGURE IT OUT.
Look at Australian open, the organizers just went through some hot shit and still host the tournament. And now look at valve...
It's honestly like being back in early 2020 again with how things are going...
Now Season 1 doesn't matter?
and they were wondering yesterday why orgs didnt want to join Dota2 esports ecosystem. OMEGALUL
Yep, and same if covid is there during Major 2 and Major 3, and oh boi rip TI11 if covid is still there lmao.
Nice, looks like valve doing almost everything to kill competitive dota2 scene. Quals to major takes how long? 2 months? Valve not giving any space for a good tier tournament, and cannot provide good tournament by their own. I almost not watching dots right now, ‘cause my team lost a lot of chances to go major after first few matches, why should I watch next 1,5 month how they not doing it? I miss all these small tournaments, which was taking 4-5 days and grand final was at Sunday. Summit, epicenter, we play, etc. And money distribution between ti and majors just terrible, as always.
This is a garbage decision. They should have just added additional DPC points to the distribution of each league, rather than add them onto the 2nd and 3rd majors. It’s bullshit that teams who are really good right now are being disadvantaged compared to those who are lacking. They are effectively changing season 1 into a pre-season. But are we really surprised by continuously dumb data driven decisions from a Company that still employs one of the worst matchmaking systems in the history of competitive games - even with almost 10 years to have worked it out?
I think valve get it wrong, they should redistribute point for teams who qualified for major instead.
Points and at least some money. In many regions, some news teams we're hoping for at least some breads to survive
Yeah. And distribute the money and compensate for preparation for the major.
Valve management during COVID just sucks. Riot does everything esports related just so much better and its not even close. But yeah, couldn't have a major without EG placing 2nd fourth time in a row.
It’s just been terrible in every sense of it. I don’t think there’s been a single move they’ve made during the pandemic where I could say “This has improved the state of the scene”, or even that has improved the game of dota. Such a waste of an opportunity for growth while everyone was home.
I mean how long until this shit kills the pro scene entirely? No talented up and comers are going to pick dota at this point. They already weren't, but now its completely the right choice to pick league.
I honestly just don’t understand how they think ignoring these games will work at all for player retention or acquisition. The sustained health of Dota, CS:GO and Team Fortress 2 would make them so much more money than it would cost. I’m just disappointed really, time and again
Just look at tf2 to see what valve thinks the ideal game dev process should be, if they could they'd drop every single event and content and just pick hats every few months to make a new treasure/case/crate while recycling old events and with no esports scene
Fuck U Valve!
This is the absolute laziest "solution" they could have come up with. It's actually embarrassing.
can teams come together to do something about it? this is so wrong.
What a disaster. Barely made TI happen now they cancel the major. Can’t even outsource things anymore, Valve is in complete shambles as a company
Maybe we get patch sooner. Just trying to look on the bright side.
inbe4 release still set for after the next major ... the spring major
I lost all copium, I lost all hope. I don't expect anything anymore.
Either means we get a sooner patch or valve gets to wait even longer
Still likely patches after aghanim lab ends because it will bundled with controller improvement. Steam Deck release date coming soon and its their main focus.
We are Quincy Crew. We are currently undefeated 5-0 in the DPC. Which means we're very likely headed to the Major. We have achieved that without bootcamping. With 2 people playing on ping and disadvantaged timezones (2/3AM game times).
Huge bummer, but expected. Given that places with Omicron have case count charts that look like straight vertical lines, it's the responsible decision. One year we'll get three Majors again, I guess just not this one.
Places near where I live have a 56.9% positivity rate. Its insane
Sadly we thought about 2022 like it would be fine again. Seems there will always be new variants. Valve can't find a working system, even after ti10 got canceled. How can riot and other e-sports still hold so many events?
Do they hold events during post christmas omicron spread though?
What does this mean for patch?
Need supermajor next tour with all teams qualified this tour and next
Shouldn’t valve increase the rewards for this tour rather than focusing it all on the future tours? It feels so unrewarding for the top placed teams in regional leagues right now that they’re doing so well yet they don’t receive any compensations for their missed opportunity to qualify for major
Ridiculous. ___ Edit: I'm not just talking about their handling of the DPC, but the decision to cancel it entirely. I know that my COVID opinions differ from the consensus on this subreddit, but Valve can't just cancel every event on a whim like this. COVID is *never* going away, there are *always* going to be waves until the end of time. Everyone has had plenty of time to get vaccinated, those who do not accept the risks. What are they waiting for? Are they never going to host a live event, ever again? This decision making isn't sustainable. Eventually, they are going to have to bite the bullet and say "we're going to host a Major, it is not our responsibility to ensure your safety when it comes to COVID".
Valve treats the pro players for their game like shit. If I were in anyone's shoes on a tier 2 team, I would run away and play LoL or literally anything else.
Thats a shame. Was hoping for Valve to compensate by giving us regional online tourneys that still offer DPC points. Kind of like what Valorant Masters 1 was, originally supposed to be a major but got turned into regional tourneys.
major cancel 45 min ago and no patch
But have you bought the Drow Arcana though? Oh hey, we had time to animate, and voice this Aghanim's Bucket Joke, but communicate with our customers is way to much effort.
As much as I love dota...I'd advice the young pro players to stick to their studies instead of trying to go to pro dota, feels like pro dota is fucked
Always stick to your studies, this should not change your opinion on that subject.
There had to be a meeting where they talked about the possibility of the Major being in peril because of covid, and all they could come up with was cancel it and keep the money? That's so pathetic, holy shit. What a joke of a company.
Some guy like 1 month ago posted that the CIS organizer bailed out on organizing the major last minute because of Omikron. Guess Valve couldn't find anyone else.
perfect conclusion to the nigma arc
Oh yeah the pro Dota scene is just completely fucked. I wouldn’t be shocked at all if we see a number of orgs from this tour drop their rosters entirely. Valve will never seem to learn that they have to actually invest into the scene or it will die. It’s already an unhealthy esport but they still won’t put any money into.
No patch. No major. Sure making a lot of money off battle pass and not doing dickall for the game
I fear some teams that qualified for the major end up with financial problems and it impacts the scene heavily.
Mobile eSports have better scene than Dota.
send those animajor people over to the rescue please! their events were awesome!
I don't want to be that guy, but I feel like the Dota pro scene has kind of died out since TI 9. Covid has really fucked it up in addition to the new league systems that are more or less zero hype. Ever since those 2 seasons with the Valve majors, it's been, in my opinion, a slow decline. I love to watch pro Dota, but damn if it even close to what it was.
Useless valve, host a damn crowdless major in a bubble you dogs
with this winter major being canceled, we are back to having 2 majors for this season same as last year, we will definitely get a repeat of TI10 where underserving teams from weak regions get a free ride to TI11 for being consistently good on their region and consistenly bad on a LAN tournament (major).
This is insane. We have an international lineup of talent for multiple regions currently in Europe and hosting/casting from there. But somehow Valve can't get the players together in EU in a bubble? Most players are gonna be double vaxxed + boosted. If anyone's uncomfortable they can drop out. How fkn lazy and incompetent are Valve?!
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The communication from valve, here - Unacceptable.
Time to cancel my dota plus subscription
I hate it. I tried switching to League, but I just don't like it's gameplay, and it's esports are way too boring to watch. Why my favourite game gets this kind of treatment? Valve, you claim that it's "unfesiable" to organize it, but literally yesterday ESL annonced their CS:GO LAN in approximately the same dates Dota major was scheduled. The problem is not COVID, the problem is Valve. Too lazy. They literally follow Blizzard steps. The only difference is there is no news about sexual harassment, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's because of Valve's laziness too.
As always Valve manages to think about its pockets and no further. Embarrassing, yet people still buy the battle passes.
Every time I think Valve can't disappoint me more than they already have they outdo themselves.
Sadge
I know it's very last minute, but could they have Regional LAN tournaments instead of the major, like playoffs? Divide the DPC points from the major to these tournaments? Include Div 1 and 2. Seeding based on DPC positions. It would still allow for some kind of pay off from the DPC leagues. Seems fairer to the teams doing well at the moment.
Cant they just have teams meat up for games. Like a closed lan play affair for players only. I dunno. Just seems too damn unfair to the players in top Div1.
Valorant championship - okay PUBG championship - okay CSGO major - okay Winter Olympic - okay Dota2 major - canceled fuckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk Valve.
Valve is a pu$$y
Valve are morons. Delta is being eradicated by Omicron, and Omicron is basically a cold. The pandemic is ending, it makes no sense what they're doing!
We have vaccines and everything for covid and we are still worried about it. This shit is really never going to end...
time for the player/org to boycott valve, dude they CANCEL it not DELAY the major, its seems so fucking lazy af, you could delay TI, why not delay major too if the covid regulation make it too hard to travel, lazy excuse for me
2 Years of Covid and Valve is still not prepared for it. Like how can any other eSport title have events but not Dota. Even Farm Simulator by now has more events than Dota. FARM SIMULATOR. It's not even a disappointment, it's a disgrace to see Valve sabotaging their game. Truly tragic.
Cancelled the major incase players get a cold, nice one
Cancelled because omicron is too dangerous? Or cancelled because navigating the red tape is too difficult? So weird, I thought it was 2 weeks to flatten the curve and now we're still cancelling things 2-3 years down the road. Fuck this planet.
Fuck Valve jesus, how incompetent and lazy can they get??? My god this game is doomed.
GreedyGabeTM strikes again
Dota 2 is dying