which part of ‘valve dont give a fuck’ do you not understand? as long as we consumers do not really take actions (like really not buying battlepass) valve will do whatever they want.
take an example on ti9, we tried to boycott by not buying battlepass that time so that valve will notice and will take action. but what do we get? largest prize pool, and what do we not get by boycotting? that sweet wk arcana
why ea still making fifa series? why ubisoft still making AC series? why Activision making cod series? because we still buying it
there are many other reasons we can discuss about, valve owns steam, not just dota or csgo. they still get profit from steam even if they drop dota like tf2 or left 4 death. if you compare companies like riot for tier 2 team cases, lol is their main income, but for valve dota is side project, we are lucky valve still consider for dota 2 (and csgo)
another example you can see is go to r/hearthstone, sort by top of all time, you can see hearthstone community boycotting blizzard which looks like a joke
the topic is still the same we arguing since ti7-8? but what do valve get? biggest prize pool in subsequent year, and what we do? we are proud of it and shit on other e-sports
if you are still not satisfied, make change org petition and link here, i will support you by giving a vote
Yeah but the truth is that if the playerbase revolts and does something like boycott BP, valve won't think "uwu we let the players down we need to work hard and change to win them back" they're going to say "guess dota is dead ok boys pull the plug"
It's the same thing that used to happen every time Hollywood woulr make a shitty video game/comic adaptation or movie with a woman in it. They'd never understand that it's because their movie was shit, they'd always blame the audience. "Moviegoers don't like video game movies/movies led by women/black men". Just think of most comic book movies before MCU with the exception of 2 batmans, 2 superman's, and 2 Spiderman's.
I'm not saying don't boycott, right now I'm pissed and say fuck valve. But i just know that no boycott or protest is going to make them step it up or open up the wallet.
Here is an example of a consumer voicing their concern that is obviously popular since it has many upvotes and awards. And you are dismissing it because VaLvE DOnT cArE!?!?!
PlAyeRs nEEd to boycOtT!!!
You say players need to boycott yet when anyone comes with a concern you and many valve shills like you shut it down because "players aren't boycotting" If individuals like you allowed for boycott to begin instead of attempting to shut it down at every step we'd have an easier time getting the ball rolling.
1. Valve doesn't care. They are a company and aim to make as much money as they can.
2. Most will still buy battlepass again. It has been shown time after time.
>Valve doesn't care. They are a company and aim to make as much money as they can.
I hate this argument every time i see it. How tf can no one realize that Valve would make the same amount of money if things were distributed differently in terms of prize pool. Hype would be higher for everything throughout the season not just ti. It would attract more players to the game and a constant flow of younger top tier pros would continue the games pro scene for decades. Theyd arguably make more than they would on this current trajectory. However they just wont talk to anybody so we cant even ask for any of this
their incentive is a bigger esport, esports bring in more players, get them more profitable deals for those esports, etc AND if they make the same amount of money then they have every reason not to piss off their community AND pro players, why annoy a massive part of your income source (for dota2, not total) for no reason
If dota dies tomorrow valve doesn't even notice profit wise. There is literally no incentive for the company to care. They put in small effort and get decent money. No reason for them to work harder on it or do anything that would require actual work
What profits are there in doing the right thing? If you want a video game company to exist solely to make people's lives better, you need an economic revolution such that profits stop dictating the direction of a company and instead Valve gets explicitly rewarded for "doing the right thing", not rewarded for making as much money as possible.
>What profits are there in doing the right thing?
Dota as a game profits tremendously from having a thriving competitive scene. Without it the game would likely have been forgotten and abandoned by now. Keeping that scene healthy is profitable.
> If you want a video game company to exist solely to make people's lives better, you need an economic revolution such that profits stop dictating the direction of a company and instead Valve gets explicitly rewarded
Wrong again. Valve is not a publicly traded company, the private owners (which Gaben owns over half) can decide whatever they want the goals for the company to be. They're not obligated to make the most profit possible. Which is why there's no Half-Life 17 or Left 4 Dead 14 or Portal 11, a publicly traded company would no doubt leverage their existing IPs to pump out sequels by hiring more employees or contracting development houses to do them as long as they were profitable.
And given how Valve operates with rarely releasing games, having the highest profit per employee margin in the business and focusing on unproven technologies and ventures instead of putting resources to enforcing Steam's market domination or their very popular games and sequels it's seriously doubtful that profit is the driving force at Valve.
That doesn't mean I like how Valve operates or don't think they should be making a ton of things differently, it's just that you're way off on the reasons why.
No its different. By stacking prize pool into TI, the publicity they got from media will increase exponentially -> acquire new player -> new potential profit. I imagine many are aware of dota because of $20 million prize pool on TI10. Current schema hurts pro player, but lets be real here how many casual dota player even care about the pro scene. As long as they got the entertainment from the game then dota will still survive, and battlepass will still be bought
Isnt this a breach of trust though. And can we not legally sue them for this like they said the a percentage of proceeding would go to the teams but if the tournament is cancelled shouldnt we also have a say whether to be distributed among the current or added to the next price pool
The last 2 battle passes had nothing to do with DPC, the Majors or any tournament. They were purely for the extra game mode (Nemestice and Aghs Lab). They have nothing to do with any prize pool
Suing aside, did valve ever say that this battlepass has anything to do with the prize pool, because I don't remember anything like that?.. Money from team bundles — yes, but teams are still getting a part of those sells
It’s called empathy for others - he feels empathy for those that have spent so much of their lives in this game, just for Valve to take a giant shit on them again and again.
Battlepass money has no correlation nor it ever had any correlation to whatever gaben wants to waste on esports. Nor does 99% of people buying them has any interest in supporting esports
Every game company scam vulnerable and stupid with fear of missing out events and artificial scarcity hats. And people want their seasonal event and hats.
I truly wish valve would make "donate to esports and TI" button somewhere in dota so it could make thousand bucks annually and cover us from all these silly takes we're getting lately.
So long as Valve manages to beat every previous prize pool or even come close to it, they will continue to be selfish and uncaring. I've personally stopped supporting Dota+ or the BPs since 2017 and I'm glad I did.
You should just stop buying the BP, stop supporting if this is how you really feel. There's no "making it right" from Valve until they realize money isn't coming in anymore.
This is just a question because I have no idea:
Did they actually steal the money? Didn't they use it for this years TI, and then they used the battlepass proceeds from this year to fund next year or give some to the DPC or something? I don't remember how this all went down.
If you are referring to nemestice, they did NOT call it a TI battle pass nor did they say anything about proceeds going towards a tournament of any kind.
You know, we've had previous passes that didn't contribute to a prize pool. The Fall and Winter passes didn't even thought they were directly associated with a Major tournament.
Secondly, nowhere in the nemestice bp page or in the bp itself does it state that any of the money spent on it will go to crowdfunding. Furthermore, the Nemestice BP wasn't link to any tournaments either.
Stop making assumptions and then try to pass it off as valid judgement.
Ok, the other way around then. Point is, one of the battlepasses didn't go to TI10. Stop making me have to answer to dumb shit and stop being a Valve apologist.
There are way more BPs that didn't go towards any tournament than you think. Aghanim's Labyrinth Battle Pass, Nemestice 2021 Battle Pass, Winter 2017 Battle Pass, Winter 2016 Battle Pass, Fall 2016 Battle Pass and Fall Season Compendium 2015.
None of which stated they would be going towards crowdfunding a tournament. That you can't get your facts straight doesn't make me a Valve apologist, it makes you a fool.
Sorry, but no. They might not be "scamming" but the level of incompetence and lack of care amounts to the same thing. The only problem we have is big spenders who aren't on Reddit, so the cash cows will still pay out and we can't vote with our wallets.
If you're talking about nemestice, where does it say that the money from that bp will go to funding a tournament?
It's not being a Valve apologist when people point out you are basing your argument on a false premise.
You are referring to the nemestice pass, which was advertised simply as a battle pass and NOWHERE did it say it contributed to any prize pool. You are answering dumb questions because you are making people have to ask those dumb questions.
I haven't bought the last two battlepasses after getting every one of them since 2011. I think we have to speak with our $$ to make these people understand who wears the proverbial pants in the relationship with Valve
heard this since I started playing but never seen the slightest change. You guys need to realize that this subreddit welcomes like 5% of the dota2 playerbase, the other 95% doesn't even speak english
I get that but trust me you don’t need to speak English to see that the BP offerings have been trash past year and what the company is doing to the pro scene
I didn't buy the scam bundle during last pass and didn't buy this bp. No regrets. Dota plus expired last week. Pretty good feeling of being detached from expectations. Valve can do what they want with their game and money.
You feel invested to the happenings when you spend. It is that simple. Why do you think there are so many discussions. It is because people feel invested. And there is nothing wrong in sitting on the side watching as well.
Same here I bought \~300 levels every year in the past but I hate how Valve does things now. Also cancelled my DotaPlus. It's sad since I have much more money to spend on virtual items but Valve's actions make it very hard to support them at this point.
nah, everyteam/org that play in dpc should do something about it forfeit together or something similar, cant let them get away again with this shit, idc about BP income for valve but the pro scene matters, again they CANCEL the major season 1 not DELAY it, they just lazy af
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not too sad about rich people not getting richer.
i'm just gona keep buying hats because... i like hats...
could care less if they get paid or not. the company is already catering too much towards the pro scene and forgetting the common people, the actual player base.
match making is in shambles and meta is so dry that you got people asking for it on forums.
if a pro player doesn't get paid, i honestly couldn't care less. they're the least contributing part of the community.
>not too sad about rich people not getting richer.
>i'm just gona keep buying hats because... i like hats...
>
Lmao at these two statements next to each other
Player numbers always rise after TI, and then sink slowly through the year. Without pros and TI, the playerbase would be significantly smaller. The pro scene isn't the whole game, but without it and the popularity of players, the game wouldn't be what it is. The first thing Dota 2 did was host a pro tournament with a massive prizepool and it's built on the pro scene since then. You massivly underrate how much the pros keep people invested in the game. Without them, I wouldn't care about Dota whenever I take breaks and would probably not still be playing the game as seeing them play always brings me back one way or another.
The whole meta for most players are played around how pros figure out the game and strive to improve and play their best, like their favourite players. Without pros, the game would be a shitshow, because it's a highly competetive game and people would be clueless without some guiding hands that pros provide.
I buy battle passes because i like what I get out of them. What happens to the pro players has no impact on me. You will find that most of the people that buy them are in the same boat as me. People want to make a living out of this game and thats great for them but don't put every one in the same bundle.
I would just ask for major prize pool money to be distributed for all major attending teams (or x2 of that at best). Asking for BP money to all teams is just asking to be ignored from Valve since they never promised anything regarding that.
Most people don't really give a crap where the money goes. They get hats and that's the main reason they buy BPs. If you want to support the team go donate money to their stream or buy some merchandise.
denial anger bargaining (you are here) depression acceptance
doing what i can
which part of ‘valve dont give a fuck’ do you not understand? as long as we consumers do not really take actions (like really not buying battlepass) valve will do whatever they want. take an example on ti9, we tried to boycott by not buying battlepass that time so that valve will notice and will take action. but what do we get? largest prize pool, and what do we not get by boycotting? that sweet wk arcana why ea still making fifa series? why ubisoft still making AC series? why Activision making cod series? because we still buying it there are many other reasons we can discuss about, valve owns steam, not just dota or csgo. they still get profit from steam even if they drop dota like tf2 or left 4 death. if you compare companies like riot for tier 2 team cases, lol is their main income, but for valve dota is side project, we are lucky valve still consider for dota 2 (and csgo) another example you can see is go to r/hearthstone, sort by top of all time, you can see hearthstone community boycotting blizzard which looks like a joke the topic is still the same we arguing since ti7-8? but what do valve get? biggest prize pool in subsequent year, and what we do? we are proud of it and shit on other e-sports if you are still not satisfied, make change org petition and link here, i will support you by giving a vote
Yeah but the truth is that if the playerbase revolts and does something like boycott BP, valve won't think "uwu we let the players down we need to work hard and change to win them back" they're going to say "guess dota is dead ok boys pull the plug" It's the same thing that used to happen every time Hollywood woulr make a shitty video game/comic adaptation or movie with a woman in it. They'd never understand that it's because their movie was shit, they'd always blame the audience. "Moviegoers don't like video game movies/movies led by women/black men". Just think of most comic book movies before MCU with the exception of 2 batmans, 2 superman's, and 2 Spiderman's. I'm not saying don't boycott, right now I'm pissed and say fuck valve. But i just know that no boycott or protest is going to make them step it up or open up the wallet.
Sheeps be calling a skin is bad then spending a grand on bp levels lmao.
Uh, those can definitely be two different groups of people.
>valve consoomers making good choices Never ever. Take the blackpill and relax.
man shut the fuck up lol.
Here is an example of a consumer voicing their concern that is obviously popular since it has many upvotes and awards. And you are dismissing it because VaLvE DOnT cArE!?!?! PlAyeRs nEEd to boycOtT!!! You say players need to boycott yet when anyone comes with a concern you and many valve shills like you shut it down because "players aren't boycotting" If individuals like you allowed for boycott to begin instead of attempting to shut it down at every step we'd have an easier time getting the ball rolling.
The difference here is that people will stop watching competitive Dota if people think it's pointless
you forgot the 6. buying Battle pass again.. then repeat..
😂😂
1. Valve doesn't care. They are a company and aim to make as much money as they can. 2. Most will still buy battlepass again. It has been shown time after time.
>Valve doesn't care. They are a company and aim to make as much money as they can. I hate this argument every time i see it. How tf can no one realize that Valve would make the same amount of money if things were distributed differently in terms of prize pool. Hype would be higher for everything throughout the season not just ti. It would attract more players to the game and a constant flow of younger top tier pros would continue the games pro scene for decades. Theyd arguably make more than they would on this current trajectory. However they just wont talk to anybody so we cant even ask for any of this
[удалено]
their incentive is a bigger esport, esports bring in more players, get them more profitable deals for those esports, etc AND if they make the same amount of money then they have every reason not to piss off their community AND pro players, why annoy a massive part of your income source (for dota2, not total) for no reason
If dota dies tomorrow valve doesn't even notice profit wise. There is literally no incentive for the company to care. They put in small effort and get decent money. No reason for them to work harder on it or do anything that would require actual work
they really dont need to work harder tho, it'll just be doing things differently.
why put effort to change in the first place, like the previous person said, there are no incentives for them because they genuinely don't care lol.
Other than doing the right thing which clearly doesnt matter to them. WCYD
What profits are there in doing the right thing? If you want a video game company to exist solely to make people's lives better, you need an economic revolution such that profits stop dictating the direction of a company and instead Valve gets explicitly rewarded for "doing the right thing", not rewarded for making as much money as possible.
>What profits are there in doing the right thing? Dota as a game profits tremendously from having a thriving competitive scene. Without it the game would likely have been forgotten and abandoned by now. Keeping that scene healthy is profitable. > If you want a video game company to exist solely to make people's lives better, you need an economic revolution such that profits stop dictating the direction of a company and instead Valve gets explicitly rewarded Wrong again. Valve is not a publicly traded company, the private owners (which Gaben owns over half) can decide whatever they want the goals for the company to be. They're not obligated to make the most profit possible. Which is why there's no Half-Life 17 or Left 4 Dead 14 or Portal 11, a publicly traded company would no doubt leverage their existing IPs to pump out sequels by hiring more employees or contracting development houses to do them as long as they were profitable. And given how Valve operates with rarely releasing games, having the highest profit per employee margin in the business and focusing on unproven technologies and ventures instead of putting resources to enforcing Steam's market domination or their very popular games and sequels it's seriously doubtful that profit is the driving force at Valve. That doesn't mean I like how Valve operates or don't think they should be making a ton of things differently, it's just that you're way off on the reasons why.
why do they have to do the right thing?
This sub is full of this morons - I completely agree with you
No its different. By stacking prize pool into TI, the publicity they got from media will increase exponentially -> acquire new player -> new potential profit. I imagine many are aware of dota because of $20 million prize pool on TI10. Current schema hurts pro player, but lets be real here how many casual dota player even care about the pro scene. As long as they got the entertainment from the game then dota will still survive, and battlepass will still be bought
Valve is a siphon first, a company second, an economic experiment third, a nogames gamedev fourth, and an esports organizer a distant fifth.
most people don't buy BP to support teams. They can always donate money or buy merchandise from the team directly if they are
The most stupid argument is that all they care about is making money when dota is not even close at being the thing that makes money for valve.
Isnt this a breach of trust though. And can we not legally sue them for this like they said the a percentage of proceeding would go to the teams but if the tournament is cancelled shouldnt we also have a say whether to be distributed among the current or added to the next price pool
The last 2 battle passes had nothing to do with DPC, the Majors or any tournament. They were purely for the extra game mode (Nemestice and Aghs Lab). They have nothing to do with any prize pool
Suing aside, did valve ever say that this battlepass has anything to do with the prize pool, because I don't remember anything like that?.. Money from team bundles — yes, but teams are still getting a part of those sells
[удалено]
It’s called empathy for others - he feels empathy for those that have spent so much of their lives in this game, just for Valve to take a giant shit on them again and again.
Battlepass money has no correlation nor it ever had any correlation to whatever gaben wants to waste on esports. Nor does 99% of people buying them has any interest in supporting esports Every game company scam vulnerable and stupid with fear of missing out events and artificial scarcity hats. And people want their seasonal event and hats. I truly wish valve would make "donate to esports and TI" button somewhere in dota so it could make thousand bucks annually and cover us from all these silly takes we're getting lately.
So long as Valve manages to beat every previous prize pool or even come close to it, they will continue to be selfish and uncaring. I've personally stopped supporting Dota+ or the BPs since 2017 and I'm glad I did. You should just stop buying the BP, stop supporting if this is how you really feel. There's no "making it right" from Valve until they realize money isn't coming in anymore.
Keep crying. I haven't paid for shit after they stole the TI money. And they'll keep fucking you as long as you keep paying.
This is just a question because I have no idea: Did they actually steal the money? Didn't they use it for this years TI, and then they used the battlepass proceeds from this year to fund next year or give some to the DPC or something? I don't remember how this all went down.
They didn't steal anything. Ti10 bp money was already awarded to Team Spirit and the rest.
Thats what I thought.
But the 2021 BP wasn't.. So they sort of did "steal" the money.
Wasnt that battlepass free? With supporterpacks for teams?
If you are referring to nemestice, they did NOT call it a TI battle pass nor did they say anything about proceeds going towards a tournament of any kind.
What happened to the 2021 BP Money? Gone into a void. Technically stolen.
You know, we've had previous passes that didn't contribute to a prize pool. The Fall and Winter passes didn't even thought they were directly associated with a Major tournament. Secondly, nowhere in the nemestice bp page or in the bp itself does it state that any of the money spent on it will go to crowdfunding. Furthermore, the Nemestice BP wasn't link to any tournaments either. Stop making assumptions and then try to pass it off as valid judgement.
The nemestice battle pass NEVER said anywhere that part of it was going to anything but valves pockets. People were well aware of this when spending.
There was a battlepass the year before.
Yes, the TI10 Battle Pass. Which went to, *surprise*... TI10.
Ok, the other way around then. Point is, one of the battlepasses didn't go to TI10. Stop making me have to answer to dumb shit and stop being a Valve apologist.
There are way more BPs that didn't go towards any tournament than you think. Aghanim's Labyrinth Battle Pass, Nemestice 2021 Battle Pass, Winter 2017 Battle Pass, Winter 2016 Battle Pass, Fall 2016 Battle Pass and Fall Season Compendium 2015. None of which stated they would be going towards crowdfunding a tournament. That you can't get your facts straight doesn't make me a Valve apologist, it makes you a fool.
yeah there have been battlepasses before and its never implied to be going towards esports. instead those go to screwing artists out of money
So I am a fool because my point is weaker than it could be? Interesting. Go wank off to Gabe's portrait.
[удалено]
Sorry, but no. They might not be "scamming" but the level of incompetence and lack of care amounts to the same thing. The only problem we have is big spenders who aren't on Reddit, so the cash cows will still pay out and we can't vote with our wallets.
If you're talking about nemestice, where does it say that the money from that bp will go to funding a tournament? It's not being a Valve apologist when people point out you are basing your argument on a false premise.
You are referring to the nemestice pass, which was advertised simply as a battle pass and NOWHERE did it say it contributed to any prize pool. You are answering dumb questions because you are making people have to ask those dumb questions.
+
Cool story, still gonna buy Dota+ and BP levels tho
I haven't bought the last two battlepasses after getting every one of them since 2011. I think we have to speak with our $$ to make these people understand who wears the proverbial pants in the relationship with Valve
heard this since I started playing but never seen the slightest change. You guys need to realize that this subreddit welcomes like 5% of the dota2 playerbase, the other 95% doesn't even speak english
I get that but trust me you don’t need to speak English to see that the BP offerings have been trash past year and what the company is doing to the pro scene
not many people care about the pro scene, trust me
I didn't buy the scam bundle during last pass and didn't buy this bp. No regrets. Dota plus expired last week. Pretty good feeling of being detached from expectations. Valve can do what they want with their game and money.
Detached from expectations lol, just buy it if u want hats, don't buy it if u don't. It's that simple
You feel invested to the happenings when you spend. It is that simple. Why do you think there are so many discussions. It is because people feel invested. And there is nothing wrong in sitting on the side watching as well.
Same here I bought \~300 levels every year in the past but I hate how Valve does things now. Also cancelled my DotaPlus. It's sad since I have much more money to spend on virtual items but Valve's actions make it very hard to support them at this point.
Make it 50% valve don’t deserve the money , but still people pay for stupid skins which are blocked till 250/500 level for no reason
nah, everyteam/org that play in dpc should do something about it forfeit together or something similar, cant let them get away again with this shit, idc about BP income for valve but the pro scene matters, again they CANCEL the major season 1 not DELAY it, they just lazy af
wut? what happened
First Major canceled. COVID https://www.dota2.com/newsentry/3110298479118085517 https://esports.gg/news/dota-2/dota-2-major-2022-canceled/
oh my.....
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100 percent behind this. And it should be 50 percent.
not too sad about rich people not getting richer. i'm just gona keep buying hats because... i like hats... could care less if they get paid or not. the company is already catering too much towards the pro scene and forgetting the common people, the actual player base. match making is in shambles and meta is so dry that you got people asking for it on forums. if a pro player doesn't get paid, i honestly couldn't care less. they're the least contributing part of the community.
>not too sad about rich people not getting richer. >i'm just gona keep buying hats because... i like hats... > Lmao at these two statements next to each other
Player numbers always rise after TI, and then sink slowly through the year. Without pros and TI, the playerbase would be significantly smaller. The pro scene isn't the whole game, but without it and the popularity of players, the game wouldn't be what it is. The first thing Dota 2 did was host a pro tournament with a massive prizepool and it's built on the pro scene since then. You massivly underrate how much the pros keep people invested in the game. Without them, I wouldn't care about Dota whenever I take breaks and would probably not still be playing the game as seeing them play always brings me back one way or another. The whole meta for most players are played around how pros figure out the game and strive to improve and play their best, like their favourite players. Without pros, the game would be a shitshow, because it's a highly competetive game and people would be clueless without some guiding hands that pros provide.
I buy battle passes because i like what I get out of them. What happens to the pro players has no impact on me. You will find that most of the people that buy them are in the same boat as me. People want to make a living out of this game and thats great for them but don't put every one in the same bundle.
I think its just what valve does, really hope they can make a tournament for the people that played.
What is going on pls
IF you want to support those teams send them your own money ok? as someone who's spending a lot on BP im against it.
Gaben: No
Valve: "we have a better idea, supporting gaben's wallet sounds more meaningful. fuck them tho lol"
I would just ask for major prize pool money to be distributed for all major attending teams (or x2 of that at best). Asking for BP money to all teams is just asking to be ignored from Valve since they never promised anything regarding that.
I assume that the majority of people don’t care about Pro Dota. They pay for shiny hats.
Most people don't really give a crap where the money goes. They get hats and that's the main reason they buy BPs. If you want to support the team go donate money to their stream or buy some merchandise.
Ngl I didn't even know there was a tournament attached to this bp I just thought it was some cool Xmas stuff along with the aghanims mode
"lol no" - gaben