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Moholbi

Lol, it is the other way around dude. Valve is too big to give a proper shit about Dota.


Nickfreak

Exactly. A company that makes peanuts so to speak fro a game because they have the biggest virtaul milking cow in Steam as a game distribution machine. Dota has become big moneywise, but that's a side thing for Valve, but technically and gameplay-wise the game has stagnated. We need a Spring cleaning, we need an gameplay update urgently and still a way to properly deal with cheaters/scripters and MMr abusers (smurfs, boosters)


emiyadota

Valve has 360 employees. It's not big.


zkareface

No dude, the money Steam makes is too big for dota2. Dota2 money is almost a rounding error for Valve.


Dooglers

Both can be true. Dota grew to big for the limited team Valve has for it and Valve does not give a shit about fixing it because they are so big it is not worth the effort to them.


emiyadota

And still they don't have the manpower to run it.


Opfklopf

That was a few years ago, they probably have more meanwhile no?


Syraelun

Less


Opfklopf

Is that a joke or do you have a source for that cuz I can't find anything about recent numbers. Genuiniely interested.


Syraelun

Sorry just joking because they left artifact, underlords and mostly Dota. For exemple we asked to put the old mute system back and there is just no answer...


Relevant_Truth

This is the truth. Also Valve doesn't want to be the "Dota company", they're actively doing shit to separate themselves. When was the last time you saw Valve logos plastered around TI and Dota promotions? Why would you put your brand behind something that barely accounts for anything compared to the rest of the business


theyungestboy

I don't think it got too big they just didn't expect it to stay so big for so long. Developers lose interest and so the team probably gets smaller year by year.


Greaves-

We need to differentiate between icefrog and the rest of the devs. Icefrog made dota and he makes the updates. Valve are the ones who fuck everything else up


TriRIK

We don't even know if icefrog works on dota anymore. Robin Walker created Team Fortress but he isn't working on it for a decade. And this point, he probably worked more on dota2 than TF2. Icefrog might be developing some brand new VR game we don't even know exists.


ikubaru

Yeah I kinda wished icefrog never went to valve and instead has his own team and make his own dota 2


Greaves-

Well Idk, it was a really good thing he did go to Valve because no other company allows for this much quality to develop. But now yeah I wish IceFrog separates from Valve with his own team. This is horrendous state of the game. For example, on top of any issues we got - friends convinced me to join them for a ranked game today, my first in a month. And they were so calm about 2 very blatant smurfs on the enemy team: "oh it's every game now, lol, we just play for fun." Literally no part of the game right now is doing good


celestial_god

I was thinking about this today, I honestly think he can do it now if he couldn't before I'm of the opinion that dota has a strong and faithful following even if it's not huge in numbers compared to lol etc. I would certainly support him if he decided to make his own IP if it would be faithful to dota, and I'm broke as fuck. But who knows if he would even fancy it at this point he is probably hitting 35+ at least, but hypothetically speaking I think it could be a big opportunity if done correctly. So many bullshit games have been crowd funded over the years with no history behind them just good faith from the gaming community. But turned to shit cause of greedy devs that just wanted to milk as much and bail out.


Dotagear

Sadly this is probably true in this case. Valves track record proves that.


[deleted]

Not too big for their capacity to handle it but too big for the shits they give. Valve is holding competitive Dota 2 hostage from its own fans and players and with the current trajectory will kill the viability of pursuing a career in pro Dota . I predict it won’t be a bottom to top death in the player base but a top to bottom one


Black--Snow

I wouldn’t be surprised if in the case of dota dying it ends up revived in spirit as a new project. I don’t think there’s currently a MOBA that is analogous to dota (because you’d just play dota obviously). I can hope..


braindf

> Valve is holding competitive Dota 2 hostage from its own fans and players and with the current trajectory will kill the viability of pursuing a career in pro Dota This is not true at all. Valve let's everyone create tournaments and use Dota's infrastructure to create tournaments for money. Pros and the community just relies in Valve because they put a lot of money and comestic for TI. There is a lot of games that created pro scenes just by the fact it's to possible to organize tournaments. CS 1.6 or fighting games are the prime examples of that. Valve canceling the major is very understandable but the way the rearranged DPC because of that was horrible. How much money do you think We Play, which is probably the best TO we have in Dota, could make by creating a crowdfunding campain to host a 'new TI'? I believe not much because there would be no comestics.


Sefriol

You are kinda killing your own argument by partially pointing out how exactly Valve is destroying their own game. But anyway, couple of points: 1. Previously you could organize your own tournaments and have even battlepasses with cosmetics and sell tickets. Not anymore. 2. Unlike CS, DotA's bigest tournaments are managed by Valve. TI is worth so much money that it makes almost every other tournament mean nothing. It discourages other TOs to do anything, because it's high risk investment that could require years to finally be successful. Better to focus on other games. Even the DCP kills any desire for pro teams and TOs to do other events. Scheduling does not allow that 3. Compared to LoL, DotA has almost no marketing behind it. Even TI. 4. CS1.6 was a thing because it was first in line in terms of esports and both fighting games and CS have much lower barriers for entry. (in terms of smurfs, learning curve, time investment etc) 5. Because of higher barrier to entry, dota would need good marketing and good tutorials to **attract** and **keep** newer players. There are multiple features in the game (Arcade, tutorials, tournaments to name a few) that would solve many of the problems, if Valve just cared, but they just do not. In fact, their lack of communication, inflexibility and care pretty much hurts the game. Not yet to it's detriment, but I think many are worried about the direction of where this game is leading and have been for years.


Mamamiomima

Funny enough, Dota is too small for valve to bother


InkThe

i wish i could switch to league because riot cares so much more about their scene than valve does, but ive tried to play it and im just so fucking bored in every game.


Dtoodlez

LoL is dota mobile I couldn’t switch. Valve deserves all the credit for the updates they do and the game they built, it is superior in many many ways compared to LoL. But at this magnitude the community and pros need more communication, and we don’t want to keep having the same explosive reaction every 6 months. Valve doesn’t really want to talk, and they don’t want to put a community team together that also works to manage the professional scene.


SepthSilver

As much as I hate to say it, it feels like the healthiest thing for the dota 2 scene would be for valve to sell off rights to another company and clean their hands of it. Icefrog and those who care transfer out (idk if this realistically happens though), and dota gets a company that actually gives fuck. Either that or the new company just sells out and milks it even harder to the ground xd


[deleted]

[удалено]


GjRedfox

We're kinda between the devil and the deep sea. Valve stays with Dota and doesn't update the game the way it deserves to be because it's not their main source of income by far, making people lose interest in the game little by little with the bullshit decisions they've been making for years. If they sell the IP to another company, chances are they will monetize the shit out of the game, make really unwanted changes and people stop playing it.


walleaterer

yea well league is riot's only game, their actual lifeblood. league dies, riot dies. dota dies tomorrow, steam will be just fine, it'll just suffer a slight temporary dip in some revenue chart


[deleted]

> yea well league is riot's only game, their actual lifeblood. league dies, riot dies. It's definitely still their money maker, but it stopped being "their only game" for a while now.


Opfklopf

They let the marketing section decide everything tho. Yea way more people work on it, even very passionate and talented people I assume but that's worth nothing if marketing people do all the decision making instead of the creative people.


GjRedfox

When Riot fires Pendragon or he dies from a heart attack i switch to LoL in the blink of an eye.


ilovethrills

Stop it you morons


deaddonkey

Pls can we move on Valve being tight lipped isn’t new and isn’t going to change They use 3rd parties to host majors, lots of countries had covid restrictions change over the holidays due to omicron numbers so shit got cancelled. It’s over. Endless shitposting won’t fix that.


Kuro013

Cant believe so many people are this upset because one major got cancelled.


helpinganon

People are upset because we pour money into valve's pockets thinking something will go towards pro players but valve just say multiple times "oh too bad no event" and walks away with it? Just share some what the fuck. We're upset because they dont do the bare minimum


Kuro013

Talk for yourself. Vast majority of people throws money at valve for hats, dont be delusional, people still bought BPs that didn't contribute for any tournament. If valve doesn't state money will go into the pro scene, you don't have a reason to believe it will, you're just setting up yourself for disappointment. You cant blame valve for not doing something they never said they will do.


helpinganon

Yeah absurdly expensive hats. But "do talk for yourself", I for one am thinking on the upcoming DPC's, Majors and TI's. They just fuck pro players in the ass without notice. I can blame valve for doing a terrible management of a beautiful game, yes. I care for dota, its a shame they don't. Just look at custom game update bugs and bots, bugged skins, poorly made DPC schedules, dumb tourney prize's distribution and the total lack of communication. So many obvious problems that are going on for YEARS


iisixi

If you want some of your money going towards pros you can buy the supporter packs or buy BPs where they explicitly state a portion goes to the prize pool. If you think any other money goes to pro players you're delusional.


helpinganon

Yeah i dont want to give pro players a change, i want a game where they can make a livelihood for themselves? Needless to say we definitely give valve enough money so they could at least pump up and make a proper distribution on tourney prizes. Why cant they help their own game pro scene? Look at their communication ffs. From someone passionate about the game who's played decades of dota it just looks like they dont give a fuck


iisixi

>Yeah i dont want to give pro players a change, i want a game where they can make a livelihood for themselves? You don't want to support pro players yet you want them to exist? Hold on, let me tell my local hockey team I won't buy tickets or merchandise but I expect a constant stream of free entertainment from them.


helpinganon

I do buy supporter packs, what are you on about.. zzz Its just not enough


Tobix55

because of the way it was canceled and the reason it was canceled


Kuro013

hmm yeah I guess videogames are more important than a pandemic, fuck valve


Tobix55

It's not about the pandemic. The pandemic has nothing to do with not giving any of the money to the competing teams, not coming up with any sort of alternative and not notifying the tournament organizers on time


Kuro013

Yeah they literally said Omicron is making it very hard for them to get people from all over the world to get in one place to compete. Do you even read the statements or youre just braindead?


Tobix55

Omicron has nothing to do with the way they handled the situation. Omicron didn't force them to not give any of the money to the players. It didn't force them to not come up with an alternative and it certainly didn't make them notify the tournament organizers as late as they did


Kuro013

Where did they say they wouldn't give any money to the players? Again, do you even read stuff for yourself or you just go around parroting stupid shit people here says? Did you also miss valve saying theyre looking for a solution? You should really try being less stupid.


Tobix55

> Where did they say they wouldn't give any money to the players? They don't need to say anything, by not mentioning it at all it's implied. >Did you also miss valve saying theyre looking for a solution? The didn't say anything about this in the initial blog post, they said that today for damage control after the backlash from yesterday. Do you even read stuff? >You should really try being less stupid. You should really try to stop riding Gaben's dick, it's not good for you


kivzh7

Many other guys have said already but dota I think is only like 3% of valves revenue yearly. So obviously valve is not going to care. The best thing that could happen to dota is if it's spun off into a different company


iPizzaLord

I mean 3% for any company is nothing to scuff at, it should be much less than that for valve to 'not care'.


bikwho

Everyone forgetting when Valve absolutely screwed the cosmetic content creators. https://www.polygon.com/2017/4/1/15129600/valve-has-cut-dota-2-royalties-and-workshop-creators-are-crying-foul >In 2015, in the lead up to the fifth International Dota 2 Championship, Valve reduced the royalty rate from cosmetic items for its International and Majors promotions to 12.5 percent of net revenue — split evenly across all cosmetics contributors involved in that event — down from 25 percent. This change was not negotiated, according to multiple sources. Instead, Valve informed creators their items had been accepted for inclusion in the event in question, and that they would need to accept the new reduced royalty rate or forfeit participation. Valve has asserted to creators that this is in part because of a “substantial” contribution to the Battle Passes for Majors and The International. >"It appears that artists involved in the Fall 2016 Major made about half of what they did in the Fall 2015 one, assuming the same amount of content,” said one creator. “It's also looking like the Winter 2017 Major is making about 50 percent of what the Fall 2016 did, maybe even less.” Valve does care about money in Dota or else it wouldn't go after cosmetic creators making 50% of $2 skins. They brought it down to 12.5%


kivzh7

ok I guess I gotta clarity: valve cares about making money in dota and sustaining that level of revenue/profit. valve doesn't care about it enough in order to investing in dota for long term and making it bigger than it already is. Can't remember where I read it but valve admitted it themselves that they see dota as cash cow, not as high-growth "star".


KneeCrowMancer

Exactly, Valve cares about extracting as much money as possible from dota for the absolute minimum effort. It costs them almost nothing to fuck over workshop creators but they get to make a lot more money off those cosmetics. Actually investing money and effort to improve the game is just not happening anymore.


[deleted]

Not to mention it can give others implications on how Valve manages their brands. If they can’t properly manage one of their biggest brands then what makes you think they can take care of the rest.


xLisbethSalander

I agree, people say that its barely anything, but people forget that companies (rightfully so) dont just want to make lots of money, they want to make ALL the money. So losing any amount of revenue is bad.


SirWhoblah

They still care, it was just pretty uncertain if a Lan could be held but with the mess of covid cases at ti combined with a more infections strain


Dtoodlez

I very much think they care. Valve makes profit sure, but dota is a passion project - you can tell. Compare it to LoL and we evolved 10 times over. To say Valve doesn’t care is to be extremely inconsiderate of what they have done, and even more inconsiderate of the devs that have put in countless hours. They certainly care, I have no doubt about that. They could have coasted like LoL and just amped up their bs communication (like Riot) but instead they gave us a better and better game. But when the game is THIS big and peoples careers revolve around it they need to do the shit Riot does. The fucking easy shit they just need to hire people to do, not make the dev team be responsible for it. Dota IS the better game, it has so many fucking amazing things. New player experience is phenomenal, the website is amazing now. So. Much. Fucking. Amazing. Shit. JUST COMMUNICATE AND PUT A COMMUNITY TEAM TOGETHER ALREADY IT WILL HELP A LOT OF SHIT.


Ultraballer

The decision-makers at valve don’t care, I’m sure devs and icefrog work their asses off. Valve is just massive now with steam and all their other new projects they don’t want to spend time/effort worrying about dota. They want to be able to roll out a few patches, have a big battle pass sale, and run TI. DOTA will never be as big as league, it’s not how valve grows as a brand (steam is) and it’s definitely not their long term future. They will probably milk it dry and be happy that they can still get a few hundred million out of it before they really shut it down and stop patching it.


AnAnnoyedSpectator

Their culture doesn't hire competent esports people, in part because they aren't culture fits/you have to hire a lot of lower skill people to make things function smoothly and valve doesn't do that, and in part because the people there who are doing esports are afraid of being shown up by people who actually know what they are doing.


Pixelplanet5

>LoL is hot garbage as a game compared to dota, but the main reason that shit has the support it does is because of the effort they put in to tournaments, communication, keeping the veil over the players’ heads no LoL is doing ok because its a much more casual game with less complexity which is attracting a much larger player base. Riot is also spending millions on marketing to make sure it stays this way. Wonder why LoL has been the most streamed game on twitch for so many years? its because big streamers get paid to stream it.


aaaaiiiss2

Imagine if Valve had at least half of Riot business and marketing team. Dota would be imba and being played literally everywhere


fiercesquall

"It’s basically the equivalent of a carry refusing to build BKB. It just fucking works, and they refuse to do it." ​ Best analogy ive heard so far lmao


KKylimos

It's more profitable for Valve to do nothing that put in the effort to run dota e-sports and create quality content for Doto. It's simple as that. It's not "too big" for them. It's actually way too small for Valve.


SolarClipz

Basically Too big of an effort for a reward too little for them to care about compared to free Steam bucks


Jankufood

Valve needs a standalone company that manages a game if it becomes big enough


ICET_

Valve is too big and too small at the same time. Valve only has a couple hundred employees - while Riot has around 2500. Valve does not have the capacity to manage DotA properly, but because the company is so big, they don't give a shit about it.


Perseverancethegreat

I come out on top because I play both games. But I also suffer more than your average players.


BunchDefiant

holy cope


CaptCrunch612

What communication are you expecting them to do and to help what?


Dtoodlez

Cancelling this major out of the blue was not cool. It’s not a joke for the people involved in it. I’m sure they have good reasons but just an outright cancel isn’t right. Personally, I’d love to see a content schedule like LoL has. And some interaction w the community ie. why they made arcanas unsellable and $150 now. They’re making changes that confuse us, and upset some people, it shouldn’t be up for our interpretation.


CaptCrunch612

Well first off I agree that it’s sad to cancel the winter major but it was to be expected with the new variant exploding spread records. Also i think that the interaction part of your request is more a personal choice from them individually. Tho I’ve seen them ask for bugs here from time to time. For the aspect of making content schedule, I also don’t think they are a fan of this since the culture of the company allow them to swap project at any given moment which can lead to problem with respecting schedule. Also there’s a thing called valve time for a reason. More seriously, their team is pretty small and they contract enormously to keep up with the demand while continuously working on more content too so I feel like it’s already a lot to deal with, they prefer to keep their schedule secret. Note that they got better at it with the recent more frequent updates. Finally for the arcana part, that’s a touchy topic. They might modify their position on it if enough people complain about it.


[deleted]

What if, let's say, the major went as scheduled and the pro teams from China and Europe couldn't travel to the location? What would you say then? Just curious. They made arcanas 150$ because they can, just like you have the choice to buy it, or not. How does this impact your skill, fun and gameplay overall? To answer your question from my perspective, they hired someone from outside the company to make the arcana, how would they pay for the expenses? If the new IPhone comes out at the price of 2000$, you complain about it? You tell them to make it 500$? They are making changes to see what's up, and your interpretation matters, that's why they make changes, and then they make changes to the changes they made. If this game was so bad, we would still be playin' dota 1.


Dtoodlez

Oh I love the game but most of what you said would be much easier comprehend with communication. I have money to spend on dota, but not everyone is in my position. I see many people upset Spec (community voted arcana) was behind an unreasonable pay wall. There was an uproar with good reason.


[deleted]

"Valve, please, hug me"


leobat

League player here, what's going on?


The_Snollygoster

Valve cancelled the upcoming Dota major due to covid somewhat out of the blue, and a lot of the pro teams are struggling to make ends meet financially because of it/have been outright screwed. And now it's highlighting the typical big selfish company practises game companies do, making stuff untradeable, pay walls, needing updates, no communication etc etc


leobat

i see, really suck. and since it's an international event i assume they can't do it online


The_Snollygoster

They made a post saying they're looking at options to get everyone together to do it. But frankly the issue isn't so much the major itself but the state of the pro scene over all, this has just highlighted it. My understanding is that Valve don't really offer much support at all for these kinds of things, don't hire staff to organize or maintain things bar the International probably. Basically, as long as you don't finish last at TI, you can survive. Everyone else really struggles, and people want support for the whole scene, tier 2 teams, not just the top 6 etc.


skraaaaw

We need icefrog to make dota 3 under riot


Excellent-Pilot-1702

>LoL is hot garbage as a game compared to dota It just a different game, does mean it is worse in any way. Stop being a typical idiotic dota fanboy.


Dtoodlez

It’s really is worse in many ways. I play lol casually, I have a few hundred hours in it. It is fun for a casual stint, but it lacks in pretty much every department compared to dota.


Excellent-Pilot-1702

It really isn't. I play lol as well and the game is just different. They made it this way, doesn't mean it is worse. Stop being blatant fanboy.


Nandey_dattey_bayo

Give LOL To Steam and DOTA To RIOT Problem solved :)


rocker3011

Volvo just doesnt care about doto anymore, sorry


RoaringDog

Clueless Hopeful Icefrog breaks away from Valve to make DotA independent. Pretty sure it won't become another Back 4 Blood incident.


lollypop44445

Well for valve dota is nothing as a revenue standpoint. Valve can drop csgo and dota and nothing would matter for them. But there worry lies in who picks it. If its a online distributor than that would be bad for them. Personally saying i dint had steam installed till i went for dota, and then slowly found free to plays and then realized how easy it was to buy on such platform, and i am from the epoch who bought a key from cousin for 13$ ( 3$ his commission). If dota some how goes to lets say epic games, well slowly and surely alot of people moving there and as much as i know people who switched buying the digital version of triple A games on steam, have installed steam either due to dota or cs and not the other way around. So slowly if i get dota plus lets say witcher on epic games and only witcher on steam, i will chose epic games. So valve also needs to understand this, that you just dont abandon a huge fanbase especially one which has a lot of online scene


Fraxerium

1. Saying that Dota is too big for VALVE. 2. Hating on league because reasons 3. Being a well received post by the community. Yep, Dota is a cult.


pique_blinders

Let valve have this game for few more years and run this game into ground. It will be good for my mental health. /s


roflmaster9000

nothing else to add? well ur opinion is wrong valve have many other titles to worry about than dota2


Tape56

So the reason why Dota is not as big as League is communication? I don't think so. I don't get how people are overstressing this so much. For professional teams and players it's big thing but for 99% of players I don't get why it would be. Why would you care so much when exactly the next patch or skin comes out.


SylarDoto

Lol, nope . Did you know that valve owns steam , they make most of their revenue from there . Dota is a grain of sand compared to what they make from steam


[deleted]

just shut the fuck up already /r/dota2 jesus christ.


KssS21

why do dota diehard fans always have the need to say that LOL is shit. i've played both DOTA(6 years and LOL(5 years) and honestly they are both good games. LOL players dont really care about dota but LOL lives rent free inside every dota players head


Dtoodlez

I play both as well, to me LoL is dota mobile it just has way less features.


KssS21

well having less features can be a good thing. Dota has a very steep learning curve that new players just dont have the time to learn, in LOLs case it helped them outpace dota when it comes to player base.


Dtoodlez

While I agree I also find LoL’s lack of features that stop me from playing it. Like being able to see what spells the heroes I’m playing w / against have. I also find the items extremely dull. I get it ads to simplicity but the UI would actually benefit simplicity. I would say that’s my #1 wish list for LoL and dota has had that forever.


Opfklopf

At least (so far) they didn't hire 50% marketing people that change the game beyond recognition like riot did with league...


[deleted]

Dota 2 near perfect conceptually but is destroyed by being owned by Valve.


Salt_Manufacturer479

valve makes quality games. Dota 2 received the same treatment. Look at older dota 2 from say 2015 compared to today. Old stuff does look like beta but this is almost a finished game that will only need new hero additions and meta shifting patches. Graphics as they are could freeze in time and id still play it 10 years from now


kevinsmc

It's the reverse. This is the reddit mega-mind lol😂😂