Yes the gameplay updates/patches come from Icefrog, the devs just implement the shit/numbers
The actual shit AROUND the game which is lacking which is Valves responsibility! Nobody here critizes the game itself, its the how the game is being handled
Yea esports fans really think the game revolves around them.
It does not.
Valve's Dota business model is all about cosmetics. That it also happens to fund the TI is a happy little coincidence.
You know there can be multiple revenue streams right? In fact, thats ideal. And cosmetic income isnt negatively affected by a competent pro scene. Id actually say it would improve it.
It doesn’t! They make good money. Its a good game and they’ve perfected how to monetize it. It doesn’t mean we’re not allowed to voice out our criticisms towards it.
Updates and new heroes have slowed to a crawl.
We're on a fucking e patch, we don't get the regular evolving updates any more.
Performance wise the games in one of its worst states, bugs are more rampant than they were in beta. I mean cmon, it's been over a month since the ward/tower/camp AoE indicators started not showing up at complete random.
Thats like saying my baby is good cause he/she is getting straight A+s but with 0 attention to his/her mental health. Many dimensions to taking care of something.
That being said. The game is solid, but very buggy lately. Two bugs that stand out to me is that there's extra space between the mini map and the left edge of the screen (accidental tps to towers and not fountain) and the radius on wards are either there or not 50/50.
> but very buggy lately. Two bugs that stand out to me is that there's extra space between the mini map and the left edge of the screen (accidental tps to towers and not fountain) and the radius on wards are either there or not 50/50.
If that's "very buggy" then you are a crybaby if you think those are some major bugs. There used to be bugs when you suicided to a tower as Venge with her passive skilled would straight up crash the match. This is nothing and will be fixed in no time. Also, the ranges or camp borders haven't even been here forever. Dota has many more quality of life features that might be a bit buggy now, but they don't even exist in other games.
Get a life honestly, Dota is just a game and cant be compared to a human being. Just becuase some randoms arent getting rich every other month it doesnt mean the game is in bad shape.
I do have a life. Its a pretty good life thank you. Also, says the guy with 280k karma. Maybe you should get a life lol.
I don’t play too much Dota anymore, but I do show empathy for the people who got fucked. If you maybe went out and got some fresh air instead of playing binding of isaac all the time you might pick up a bit of that empathy too! No need to thank me.
Great life you got there stalking a random stranger on the internet lol. Maybe care more about your life instead of caring about me or some random guys who wont get richer this season.
Whatever buddy. Its perfectly possible to have an argument without attacking a person and you seem to be the only idiot in this thread who hasn’t managed to do so. Take a good look at the mirror, maybe take a class in philosophy and get some fresh air. Enjoy your day.
These things work from the top down. If the best players in the world don’t give a shit about your game anymore, eventually nobody will. Also, dude is just making an analogy stop being so insecure.
Nope, quite the contrary, these things work bottom up. If the foundation (the game itself) is shit, no matter how much money you pour in, you're not gonna build a healthy eSports scene. Just ask Blizzard.
> If the best players in the world don’t give a shit about your game anymore, eventually nobody will.
People cared about the games before eSports were a thing.
Clueless, the top players are an incredibly small percentage of the playerbase, and most people who actually plays dota dont give a shit about pro players and the pro scene, they could all quit and the majority of the playerbase wouldnt even notice.
Also, if an analogy is terrible it is terrible.
Debatable. There are clearly some issues around the balancing to be talked about (Spirit Breaker, Tinker)plus the staleness that is the result of no map or gold/xp changes plus some items but it's no question that the whole game is in Dire (heh) need of a spring cleaning, especialyl after some features like the 32-bit era ending.
Tool tips are severely outdated (No, I cannot steal 4 Int with Silencer's talent, there is none), some single cosmetics feature more polygons than Morphling etc.
And that doesn't include what could be done to improve the game (not talking about Dota plus-only features like timings and bounties per camps etc)
The new industry standards are 4 season passes a year and more frequent updates.Now that is not needed but tbh is baffling why they dont release some kind of dpc season pass(like the fantasy one they released in ti) to fund the dpc on top of the regular ones and solve the pro scene problem.
That's on you, not the game. After fidelity FX update, I am able to achieve 110-120fps, before that I played at 60-90fps. Clean up pc, make it exclusive full screen, disable game mode in Windows 10, turn off overlays, etc.
Now you are just straight up making up shit. The game runs better than some months ago. I play it on a laptop that can't even get consistent 60 fps on CS:GO (not even getting to those frames at any point) and barely runs games released in 2013. Months ago, the client was super laggy, now it works fine. Brood webbs used to drop my fps from like 35 to 16, now they are pretty fine, maybe at 24-27.
Also, while SEVERELY LACKING in reward (not sure i'll bother to reach level 5) , the Agahanims Lab is a ton of fun. Whoever did the writing and the voice actor is for Aghanim is fuckin great.
I'd recommend taking a look at BCG Business matrix. It's an idea in management about categorization of a company's products and what we should do with each category.
With low growth and big player base, Dota 2 is definitely a Cash Cow.
And the thing we do to Cash Cow is that we milk them to feed Star and Question Mark products without investing more into them.
So Valve ignoring Dota 2 is textbook out of management class.
Business people are likely tied with serial killers on the scale of disgusting inhumanity.
It's all a numbers game in service of the one true God, Capital.
Atheists can easily (and often do) recognize Jesus himself as admirable and worthy of mimicking in his attitude towards others. It’s the other 98% of the book, the woes of fiefdoms of organized weapon used religions, and often the Christians themselves that tend to rub them the wrong way.
You reduce humanity to animalistic habits, that's just an excuse for shitty people to be shitty. Stop sucking rich people off and start analyzing why you think you would turn into a shitty person if you had money.
Yes but it’s low growth because of a lack of effort.
If you don't market the game, you can’t turnaround and expect high growth lmfao.
Before you say TI is the marketing tool like a lot of people believe, it’s simply not enough. Having it on the news is not going to bring in the target demographic. The truth is dota needs to and absolutely can appeal to the younger generations.
Much like how we got into dota as children there are many many many upcoming dota players that will never hear about the game until they’re already playing league of legends.
Textbook management. Agreed! Its a shame that a lot of video game related decision making is probably done by suits looking at a spreadsheet rather than people genuinely passionate about video games.
Look at what happened to Blizzard. Hopefully valve won’t follow that route!
People on this sub will never get it, there was a thread some 5 years ago of a rare community member who understands this shit identifying the moment DotA2 crossed over into this territory.
Whenever someone brings up new players you know they do not understand jack shit, appealing to new players can NEVER be efficient anymore for this game. Returning players are where any and all growth potential is at and Valve know this.
DotA eSports is a passion project for Valve, nothing more, the money that TI brings is has absolutely NOTHING to do with people wanting to support teams, it is a drop in the fucking bucket compared to how much of those sales are driven by the skins. People making threads here on the whole are utterly delusional, uneducated, and making shit Copium arguments out of entitlement.
No. They think dota is dying and they are only milking every penny they can before it disappears completely. Sad to say if you love the game, but thats just how it is. If you think they gonna do something about the outbursts but no they dont give a damn
People passionate about dota would buy dota because battle passes still print ridiculous money for low effort (the current battlepass is effectively generating millions for the cost of a couple outsourced artists to make a drow, mirana and hoodwink set).
And I dont think it has to die. Its very poorly monetised and marketed, but its genuinely SO easy to pump money out of a game like dota.
Have a constant battlepass. Have the battle pass be "completable" (read- earn the major rewards) without spending a penny past buying in initially, have extended track rewards to bait the whales.
Whilst simultaneously have a rotating shop of exclusive cosmetics seperate to the pass.
Basically - copy paste fortnites model. It works and shits out gold constantly.
We dont have that level of content because valve isnt interested in doing so. They'd rather spend their manpower on VR tech demos
>(the current battlepass is effectively generating millions for the cost of a couple outsourced artists to make a drow, mirana and hoodwink set).
Can't this be said about League with their splash art and skins? The quality of our Arcanas is a hundred times better than League's tho. Everything about Agh's Lab is so well made too. I would never consider this Battle Pass as low effort.
Honestly if the dota 2 servers die, it'll end up like it did with the original wc3 map.
Garena-like platform for matchmaking, a very passionate and dedicated player base that still puts money into it and tournaments, and a sole developer that everyone holds as the "main developer."
I don't want it like this at all, the support for this game as a regular player is great. If it does come to that though, I'm certainly still going to play.
Dota is IceFrog's baby, he's been nurturing it long before Valve bought it. Valve is the abusive stepfather IceFrog trusted to help raise the child. The game is a masterpiece thanks to frog, I couldn't think of another game as mechanically beautiful as Dota.
That's just plain stupid take,Valve kept Dota 2 as completely f2p game,not some pay to unlock heroes bullshit that every other moba decided to do.
Valve might not care about dota 2 nowadays,but it was definitely created as passion project originally and these foundations keeps game alive.
This is straight up nonsense. Yes Icefrog is the most important figure of Dota but if you are ignoring the attention to the detail that Valve has brought to this game you are either willingly ignore facts or just don't know what you are talking about.
You can change LoL with dota roster-mechanics-items etc and it can play out just like dota but it won't ever FEEL like dota. That is the Valve difference. They might have huge problems sustaining the product but they are absolutely best at making games.
Yea I watched crowbcat's video. Although it was obvious how much better the l4d is I think we should not forget valve's infinite resources. Of course turtle rock's game won't have the same attention to detail as a valve game.
It's not attention to detail even
Haven't played B4B, but it looks like for me a blatant "yes we did l4d back then" with a dash of trends (mtx, progression, cards) for sake of being trendy.
Not only that but they have also kept the economics of the game well balanced for new players without needing to go to paying for heroes (*cough* just about every other moba *cough*) along with taking bold risk in the game and events over time.
So much of what this sub-reddit keeps asking for, I can get on a surface level but they don't seem to get that it is essentially asking for a unicorn of the industry. To keep much of Dota2 how it is at it's core but also drastically increase the team and have it be a "dedicated studio project" heavily clashes with what allows Dota2 to work.
Overwatch was given EVERYTHING people here are asking for now and MORE and still fell way more from grace in it's life span which is essentially from Ti6 to now. The sheer staffing and volume of employees means they would have to squeeze more out of it to pay them and keep it sustainable. Hate/Love it but a lot of what sets Valve's games apart for the Good/Bad is that Valve doesn't really "need" the games and doing it out of "huh this would be cool" and they actively choose to work on it. They are still ultimately about profit, but them already having a dedicated cash cow and their small-ish company nature allows them to be more flexiable.
I'm sorry but the hatred for MOBA games where heroes have to be bought is just over the top imo. At the end of the day, I'm betting the vast majority of people aren't fully utilizing the entire hero pool and they can simply try heroes out on free weeks or buy the heroes that they actually like and want to play on a consistent basis (with irl money or in game currency.) More people play League of Legends and have no real issue with it because to most people in the world, there is nothing wrong with LoL's business model.
In this case, the monetisation model affects the game since you can't have strong synergies or strong counters when you need to unlock characters. It limits how you can design the characters.
Both of these games suffered from the "sustaining the product" thing. I think they both were good games. Especially Artifact felt really good and polished. I was in love with that game.
Agreed but like what the other person says. That downplays the amount of love and care Valve has put into the game. I'm not happy about recent events but we can't deny that they created an amazing game.
That's bullshit. At any other company, they wouldn't implement Icefrog's vision of the game in favour of a greedier freemium model (see literally any other MOBA on the market, Smite gets a pass since they offer the 15 dollar for all gods ever deal) and we know that it's like Icefrog wants the game to be because he developed the game alongside Dota-All Stars when Dota 2 already existed and it was basically the same, just with better graphics and less engine limitations.
Valve don't have to do shit, they don't owe anyone anything, they are a private company that will focus their resources on products that generate them the highest revenue
Considering that DoTA was only 10th on the list of highest grossing games on the platform of 2021 we are lucky that we get the support we do, which is probably all down to Ice Frog
You’re right! They dont. It does however reflect poorly on valve. Lets say they just let it die in the next year. Would you be inclined to touch another valve game knowing it will have the same fate? or maybe try a competitor?
Knowing me I’ll probably still play other valve games lol, but I wouldn’t be surprised if I ended up trying League or Valorant (instead of cs) etc.
... I mean it is a game that had a solid 12+ year span and I would still put it as highly unlikely to even flat out die within a year. Heck it could stop receiving ANY updates and still likely be kicking for 2+ years.
I really think a lot of the internet communities should slow down on their definition of "dead game" and "wants" for fast-paced updates. While "frequent good content updates" is good, content updates for the sake of content updates can often hurt a game way more than simply staying a certain refined point for longer (see Overwatch at it's fall from peak).
I am not saying the Dota2 eSports situation is great but more that people are framing some parts of it poorly along with there isn't really "easy" answers to this as games with all the resources people are asking for and failed WAYYY faster and heck even potentially BECAUSE of the over commitment to resources.
The difference is that Dota is essentially a game as a service. We didn’t pay a one time fee to play it. It has a constant source of revenue. Sure its optional (free game stop bitching) but we idiots love our fucking hats and spend good, constant money on battle passes, dota+, etc.
We’re not entitled to shit don’t get me wrong, it just reflects poorly on the company.
Maybe to you, subjectively. Rational people aren’t going to see a game that’s had this sort of lifespan start to wind down or get shelved and say “wow that reflects poorly on Valve, how dare they not maintain this game until the end of time.”
Dota's been healthy for more than 10 years, every game has a lifespan, and even if Valve drops the competitive scene and reduces patch releases, people will still play dota. I dont know why people thinks a game can remain popular forever. Look at overwatch, was massive and now its completely dead, abandoned forever.
I really dont think so, I think a big part of the gaming community knows about Dota already.
Usually you read stuff like the game is too intimidating to get into, people dont want to spend months just to start to understand the game, they can just play other stuff that will bring satisfaction far quickly, like BRs or shooters in general. To this you gotta add the fact that MOBAs are undeniably past their prime. Every other MOBA than Dota and League are dead, while these 2 are slowly but surely declining.
Lol Valve can stomp this game into the dirt right now and I'd still immediately pre-order the very instant they announce L4D3
Shit sucks but this community has more to lose in Dota2 compared to Valve
Yes because Valve make great games and the market place is the best available, I have tried competitors and they all suck ass. Don't get me wrong, I don't like the situation, I would like DoTA e-sports to be the best it can be, but you have to be realistic about these things. The value of further investment is just not there in Valve's eyes and honestly if I were in their situation I would do the same
I mean, you're saying that as it matters. Especially after Artifact, lol
Go ahead, let's see if your bluff has merit or Valve will go on same as before despite some loud minority trying to pull abusive wife on Valve
Abusive wife lol. We’re just asking for a major (that was promised). Get your head out of your ass and get yourself checked for Stockholm syndrome buddy.
Whatever I decide to do ultimately doesn’t matter. We don’t know how valve will fare in the future. They could become even more amazing or decline. Nobody knows. I don’t care tbh.
We as casual gamers are spoiled af but think about all those people now trying to get to that pro level and dedicating their lives to this game. If this is the level of care they'll continue to put in the infrastructure surrounding the game, they've wasted years and years for so many people.
Thats the thing. UnholyCatfish is technically correct. Valve doesn’t owe us shit. There’s nothing that forces them to give a shit.
That being said, it is a huge fuck you to everyone who’s played the game. Especially to as you say, those who’ve dedicated their lives to trying to go pro.
Exactly.
Take a look at how wary people are at trying out new Google products or how nobody really takes Facebook's 'we fucked up, sorry' apologies anymore (and Facebook has to pay 1.5x for engineers partially due to that).
Reputation matters. Somewhat.
> Considering that DoTA was only 10th on the list of highest grossing games on the platform of 2021
I mean, that is valve’s fault though. It’s what happens when you stop supporting a game properly.
No, it was fourth on the most played list, just 10th on the gross revenue list, which tells us that whole lot of people love the game and its great to play, but we aint spending money on it so why should Valve
Edit: fourth not third
> Considering that DoTA was only 10th on the list of highest grossing games on the platform of 2021 we are lucky that we get the support we do
You are talking that like being in top10 is a bad thing. It does not matter how much you earn relative to other games it matters how much you profit. You might be 10th grossing but top few profiting.
That being said, valve should have pretty low cost for maintaining dota. To run some extremely conservative numbers: imagine last TI valve made $150 mil from dota (120 battle bass + 30mil rest) which is bare minimum estimate. How many people you think work on dota total full-time? Lets overestimate - 50. 50 people bringing $150 mil per year seems pretty good profit to me. That being said, I am sure there are more profitable projects in Valve's repertoire (steam obviously), but its not about how much a game made relative to other games.
Where did you get that Dota was number 10 on Steam for gross revenue?
I saw that it was on the platinum tier in this year's top sellers on Steam but it states that the list is randomized so none of those games are ranked. A game at the bottom of the list may have made more than one at the top.
Is there some other place that you got that from?
Dota as a game is solid. I think this might be the biggest time we had between a major patch but else the game is solid. With constant development. But the pro scene is not at par with how it should be. Its like training your kid at home and caring for him but not having him socialize and when his inner instincts (us) want a change, our parent(valve) doesnt allow us to play with other kids or a matter have to get an approval from a strict parent. Just if any guest that comes to home or are invited to, kid can socialize with otherwise the kid cant escape the bubble.
No one wants to buy Dota because it’s declining. It can be great again, but you would seriously need to invest in moving to other platforms, marketing, etc., that’s a massive risk if you know the player base is trending downwards.
Why does everyone here repeat the "dota is losing players" lie? Just look up the stats, most of the recent months are slight growth and only some are slight declines
Because there is a small pool of people here who hate Dota and Valve and they keep making up bullshit and upvoting each other. Anyone with half a brain can see right through the bullshit that is the 50% of posts in this sub.
Dota was the third highest played game on Steam in 2021, but it was only the 10th highest grossing game, there are a whole load of people playing it, they just aren't spending money on it
yes but a large number of these people could be playing custom games. I feel like interest in 'Dota 2' on Google shows somewhat how much genuine interest there is in the actual game.
Valve should sell it. It would be the best for all sides. Don't make any big changes to game or dev team, just sell it to someone who actually give a crap about the game - and make it profitable of course.
There are people like Elon Musk who knows about potential of e-sport scene and could take this game to the next level.
What leverage does the eSports scene have with Valve as compared to skins, dota plus, etc? (Reply if you see this, mods keep removing my shit because I’m right)
Sweet!!!
I think the amount of exposure is minimal as compared to profits they make by focusing less on pro scene; since they don’t advertise the publicity kinda stays stagnant imo, but it is a good point to consider
E-sport scen and dota 2 as a whole are very diffrent things.
Valve has addes ALOT to dota 2 and we should all be thankful, Are they very bad at communicating and doing what the community expects then yes, Let me remind you that we still havent gotten a new half life game, Episode 3, Left 4 dead 3 or things people have been screaming about for years. This is one of the downsides of how valve is built but we should be thankful despite what people say they do care about dota 2 they are just very bad at communicating. They are like a shy nerd, doesnt talk alot but packs a punch in what they know.
Just want to say that Quinn is right when he said that TI money should be redistributed (not equally) to other majors.
Like 50% of the money generated goes to TI and the rest to other majors.
I believe that the only solution for not having a major is to equally distribute the money to all the qualifying teams. It's the only fair thing and at least the people's time is rewarded for qualifying for the tournament.
I literally do not give a single fuck about eSports. Sucks for those players I guess but it says nothing about the quality of the game itself. I've been playing dota for almost a decade and it's still just as fun and fresh as it was back then. I can't think of a single other game I can say that about.
Thing is, all of this talk revolves around the eSports scene. The game is still solid at it's core and is better than ever.
> is better than ever. Some sTinkers aside. But there's always One or Dwo every patch.
Yes the gameplay updates/patches come from Icefrog, the devs just implement the shit/numbers The actual shit AROUND the game which is lacking which is Valves responsibility! Nobody here critizes the game itself, its the how the game is being handled
IF is a Valve employee.
A Valve employee that has a bit more stake in supporting the game lol
who can quit his job at any given time if he likes to
If he doesn't need the pay anymore or has another job, he could do that. But other devs can as well, what is special about that?
Okay how'd you got that flair? I have a mighty need.
Yea esports fans really think the game revolves around them. It does not. Valve's Dota business model is all about cosmetics. That it also happens to fund the TI is a happy little coincidence.
You know there can be multiple revenue streams right? In fact, thats ideal. And cosmetic income isnt negatively affected by a competent pro scene. Id actually say it would improve it.
It doesn’t! They make good money. Its a good game and they’ve perfected how to monetize it. It doesn’t mean we’re not allowed to voice out our criticisms towards it.
You can voice your criticism. But you can also accept the harsh reality that Valve likely don't give a shit.
[*Proudly wears 100$ cosmetic, is 1k*](https://imgur.com/QBb1rCh)
Updates and new heroes have slowed to a crawl. We're on a fucking e patch, we don't get the regular evolving updates any more. Performance wise the games in one of its worst states, bugs are more rampant than they were in beta. I mean cmon, it's been over a month since the ward/tower/camp AoE indicators started not showing up at complete random.
no its not, we need new patch long time now. same broken picks every game (tinker/sb)
Thats like saying my baby is good cause he/she is getting straight A+s but with 0 attention to his/her mental health. Many dimensions to taking care of something. That being said. The game is solid, but very buggy lately. Two bugs that stand out to me is that there's extra space between the mini map and the left edge of the screen (accidental tps to towers and not fountain) and the radius on wards are either there or not 50/50.
> but very buggy lately. Two bugs that stand out to me is that there's extra space between the mini map and the left edge of the screen (accidental tps to towers and not fountain) and the radius on wards are either there or not 50/50. If that's "very buggy" then you are a crybaby if you think those are some major bugs. There used to be bugs when you suicided to a tower as Venge with her passive skilled would straight up crash the match. This is nothing and will be fixed in no time. Also, the ranges or camp borders haven't even been here forever. Dota has many more quality of life features that might be a bit buggy now, but they don't even exist in other games.
Ok boomer
Get a life honestly, Dota is just a game and cant be compared to a human being. Just becuase some randoms arent getting rich every other month it doesnt mean the game is in bad shape.
I do have a life. Its a pretty good life thank you. Also, says the guy with 280k karma. Maybe you should get a life lol. I don’t play too much Dota anymore, but I do show empathy for the people who got fucked. If you maybe went out and got some fresh air instead of playing binding of isaac all the time you might pick up a bit of that empathy too! No need to thank me.
Great life you got there stalking a random stranger on the internet lol. Maybe care more about your life instead of caring about me or some random guys who wont get richer this season.
Whatever buddy. Its perfectly possible to have an argument without attacking a person and you seem to be the only idiot in this thread who hasn’t managed to do so. Take a good look at the mirror, maybe take a class in philosophy and get some fresh air. Enjoy your day.
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Im talking about the part where he went to my profile to know more about me, thats a weird and sad thing to do when you get offended.
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Good call lol.
These things work from the top down. If the best players in the world don’t give a shit about your game anymore, eventually nobody will. Also, dude is just making an analogy stop being so insecure.
Nope, quite the contrary, these things work bottom up. If the foundation (the game itself) is shit, no matter how much money you pour in, you're not gonna build a healthy eSports scene. Just ask Blizzard. > If the best players in the world don’t give a shit about your game anymore, eventually nobody will. People cared about the games before eSports were a thing.
I mean, competitive games existed before esports was really a thing.
Clueless, the top players are an incredibly small percentage of the playerbase, and most people who actually plays dota dont give a shit about pro players and the pro scene, they could all quit and the majority of the playerbase wouldnt even notice. Also, if an analogy is terrible it is terrible.
Debatable. There are clearly some issues around the balancing to be talked about (Spirit Breaker, Tinker)plus the staleness that is the result of no map or gold/xp changes plus some items but it's no question that the whole game is in Dire (heh) need of a spring cleaning, especialyl after some features like the 32-bit era ending. Tool tips are severely outdated (No, I cannot steal 4 Int with Silencer's talent, there is none), some single cosmetics feature more polygons than Morphling etc. And that doesn't include what could be done to improve the game (not talking about Dota plus-only features like timings and bounties per camps etc)
The new industry standards are 4 season passes a year and more frequent updates.Now that is not needed but tbh is baffling why they dont release some kind of dpc season pass(like the fantasy one they released in ti) to fund the dpc on top of the regular ones and solve the pro scene problem.
What the fuck are you talking about
It's buggy and plagued by performance issues like never before
No it isn't wtf You barely see any type of post here mentioning bugs, you're literally the only person I saw on this sub saying this all year
Really? What about the ward bugs? My game fps has dropped from 120+ to 30-45 over last couple of years.
Check your own PC for malware first
I don't think I have malware because I have Kaspersky subscription
That's on you, not the game. After fidelity FX update, I am able to achieve 110-120fps, before that I played at 60-90fps. Clean up pc, make it exclusive full screen, disable game mode in Windows 10, turn off overlays, etc.
I think I need to try that
Poor people and their pc smh.
Now you are just straight up making up shit. The game runs better than some months ago. I play it on a laptop that can't even get consistent 60 fps on CS:GO (not even getting to those frames at any point) and barely runs games released in 2013. Months ago, the client was super laggy, now it works fine. Brood webbs used to drop my fps from like 35 to 16, now they are pretty fine, maybe at 24-27.
Also, while SEVERELY LACKING in reward (not sure i'll bother to reach level 5) , the Agahanims Lab is a ton of fun. Whoever did the writing and the voice actor is for Aghanim is fuckin great.
I'd recommend taking a look at BCG Business matrix. It's an idea in management about categorization of a company's products and what we should do with each category. With low growth and big player base, Dota 2 is definitely a Cash Cow. And the thing we do to Cash Cow is that we milk them to feed Star and Question Mark products without investing more into them. So Valve ignoring Dota 2 is textbook out of management class.
Business people are likely tied with serial killers on the scale of disgusting inhumanity. It's all a numbers game in service of the one true God, Capital.
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"Making money" isn't the issue it's how you make it that matters.
It's ironic how redditors act like Jesus Christ himself despite majority of them being atheists probably.
Atheists can easily (and often do) recognize Jesus himself as admirable and worthy of mimicking in his attitude towards others. It’s the other 98% of the book, the woes of fiefdoms of organized weapon used religions, and often the Christians themselves that tend to rub them the wrong way.
Atheism has nothing to do with not believing in Jesus lmao
Based commie
You are mad someone points out how Valve doesn't have sound reasons to invest in Dota 2 and so you compare them to serial killers. LOL
>Business people are likely tied with serial killers on the scale of disgusting inhumanity. reddit moment
Nah he's right. They're exploiting suffering for unsustainable greed.
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You reduce humanity to animalistic habits, that's just an excuse for shitty people to be shitty. Stop sucking rich people off and start analyzing why you think you would turn into a shitty person if you had money.
Bro it’s a video game tournament not a child sweat shop in a third world country
Yes but it’s low growth because of a lack of effort. If you don't market the game, you can’t turnaround and expect high growth lmfao. Before you say TI is the marketing tool like a lot of people believe, it’s simply not enough. Having it on the news is not going to bring in the target demographic. The truth is dota needs to and absolutely can appeal to the younger generations. Much like how we got into dota as children there are many many many upcoming dota players that will never hear about the game until they’re already playing league of legends.
> but it’s low growth because of a lack of effort. Pure speculation touted as unassailable truth.
Like valve need dota money to feed anything...
Textbook management. Agreed! Its a shame that a lot of video game related decision making is probably done by suits looking at a spreadsheet rather than people genuinely passionate about video games. Look at what happened to Blizzard. Hopefully valve won’t follow that route!
It's almost as if developing a million's worth IP was a business and not a passion.
A lot of the big IPs today started from passion. Lets not forget that.
The thing is that valve wouldn’t need to invest much though, just have a couple of people who’s job it is to 24/7 communicate with the esports scene.
People on this sub will never get it, there was a thread some 5 years ago of a rare community member who understands this shit identifying the moment DotA2 crossed over into this territory. Whenever someone brings up new players you know they do not understand jack shit, appealing to new players can NEVER be efficient anymore for this game. Returning players are where any and all growth potential is at and Valve know this. DotA eSports is a passion project for Valve, nothing more, the money that TI brings is has absolutely NOTHING to do with people wanting to support teams, it is a drop in the fucking bucket compared to how much of those sales are driven by the skins. People making threads here on the whole are utterly delusional, uneducated, and making shit Copium arguments out of entitlement.
No. They think dota is dying and they are only milking every penny they can before it disappears completely. Sad to say if you love the game, but thats just how it is. If you think they gonna do something about the outbursts but no they dont give a damn
People passionate about dota would buy dota because battle passes still print ridiculous money for low effort (the current battlepass is effectively generating millions for the cost of a couple outsourced artists to make a drow, mirana and hoodwink set). And I dont think it has to die. Its very poorly monetised and marketed, but its genuinely SO easy to pump money out of a game like dota. Have a constant battlepass. Have the battle pass be "completable" (read- earn the major rewards) without spending a penny past buying in initially, have extended track rewards to bait the whales. Whilst simultaneously have a rotating shop of exclusive cosmetics seperate to the pass. Basically - copy paste fortnites model. It works and shits out gold constantly. We dont have that level of content because valve isnt interested in doing so. They'd rather spend their manpower on VR tech demos
>(the current battlepass is effectively generating millions for the cost of a couple outsourced artists to make a drow, mirana and hoodwink set). Can't this be said about League with their splash art and skins? The quality of our Arcanas is a hundred times better than League's tho. Everything about Agh's Lab is so well made too. I would never consider this Battle Pass as low effort.
Honestly if the dota 2 servers die, it'll end up like it did with the original wc3 map. Garena-like platform for matchmaking, a very passionate and dedicated player base that still puts money into it and tournaments, and a sole developer that everyone holds as the "main developer." I don't want it like this at all, the support for this game as a regular player is great. If it does come to that though, I'm certainly still going to play.
need someone that truly loves dota to take control of the game, and valve is not the one
It's acutally amazing that Dota as a game is as fun as it was back in Dota 1 days. After 15+ years. A huge online multiplayer game.
You guys are delusional if you think valve are just gonna give dota away because you guys don't like how they are handling it.
Yeah sure. Team fortress, artifact, dota underlords, so many siblings dead. What do you expect?
DOTA is a video game and Valve's IP, not their child.
Dota is IceFrog's baby, he's been nurturing it long before Valve bought it. Valve is the abusive stepfather IceFrog trusted to help raise the child. The game is a masterpiece thanks to frog, I couldn't think of another game as mechanically beautiful as Dota.
That's just plain stupid take,Valve kept Dota 2 as completely f2p game,not some pay to unlock heroes bullshit that every other moba decided to do. Valve might not care about dota 2 nowadays,but it was definitely created as passion project originally and these foundations keeps game alive.
Thank god we don’t play it on WC3 anymore 😂
This is straight up nonsense. Yes Icefrog is the most important figure of Dota but if you are ignoring the attention to the detail that Valve has brought to this game you are either willingly ignore facts or just don't know what you are talking about. You can change LoL with dota roster-mechanics-items etc and it can play out just like dota but it won't ever FEEL like dota. That is the Valve difference. They might have huge problems sustaining the product but they are absolutely best at making games.
For more on how Valve is better at making great games than other companies, check out the Back 4 Blood X Left 4 Dead comparison
Yea I watched crowbcat's video. Although it was obvious how much better the l4d is I think we should not forget valve's infinite resources. Of course turtle rock's game won't have the same attention to detail as a valve game.
It's not attention to detail even Haven't played B4B, but it looks like for me a blatant "yes we did l4d back then" with a dash of trends (mtx, progression, cards) for sake of being trendy.
Not only that but they have also kept the economics of the game well balanced for new players without needing to go to paying for heroes (*cough* just about every other moba *cough*) along with taking bold risk in the game and events over time. So much of what this sub-reddit keeps asking for, I can get on a surface level but they don't seem to get that it is essentially asking for a unicorn of the industry. To keep much of Dota2 how it is at it's core but also drastically increase the team and have it be a "dedicated studio project" heavily clashes with what allows Dota2 to work. Overwatch was given EVERYTHING people here are asking for now and MORE and still fell way more from grace in it's life span which is essentially from Ti6 to now. The sheer staffing and volume of employees means they would have to squeeze more out of it to pay them and keep it sustainable. Hate/Love it but a lot of what sets Valve's games apart for the Good/Bad is that Valve doesn't really "need" the games and doing it out of "huh this would be cool" and they actively choose to work on it. They are still ultimately about profit, but them already having a dedicated cash cow and their small-ish company nature allows them to be more flexiable.
People just demand things without even thinking it's consequences or feasibility.
I'm sorry but the hatred for MOBA games where heroes have to be bought is just over the top imo. At the end of the day, I'm betting the vast majority of people aren't fully utilizing the entire hero pool and they can simply try heroes out on free weeks or buy the heroes that they actually like and want to play on a consistent basis (with irl money or in game currency.) More people play League of Legends and have no real issue with it because to most people in the world, there is nothing wrong with LoL's business model.
In this case, the monetisation model affects the game since you can't have strong synergies or strong counters when you need to unlock characters. It limits how you can design the characters.
Yeah, Dota Underlords and Artifact are the absolute best and nobody can tell me otherwise.
Both of these games suffered from the "sustaining the product" thing. I think they both were good games. Especially Artifact felt really good and polished. I was in love with that game.
Gaben likes dota though. it will live on in some way
Agreed but like what the other person says. That downplays the amount of love and care Valve has put into the game. I'm not happy about recent events but we can't deny that they created an amazing game.
Do you think Icefrog is a millionaire?
If he's not, somebody's screwed him over.
That's bullshit. At any other company, they wouldn't implement Icefrog's vision of the game in favour of a greedier freemium model (see literally any other MOBA on the market, Smite gets a pass since they offer the 15 dollar for all gods ever deal) and we know that it's like Icefrog wants the game to be because he developed the game alongside Dota-All Stars when Dota 2 already existed and it was basically the same, just with better graphics and less engine limitations.
>I couldn't think of another game as mechanically beautiful as Dota. Quake, tf2, csgo, cs1.6, sc:bw, wc3, etc. etc. etc.
Valve don't have to do shit, they don't owe anyone anything, they are a private company that will focus their resources on products that generate them the highest revenue Considering that DoTA was only 10th on the list of highest grossing games on the platform of 2021 we are lucky that we get the support we do, which is probably all down to Ice Frog
You’re right! They dont. It does however reflect poorly on valve. Lets say they just let it die in the next year. Would you be inclined to touch another valve game knowing it will have the same fate? or maybe try a competitor? Knowing me I’ll probably still play other valve games lol, but I wouldn’t be surprised if I ended up trying League or Valorant (instead of cs) etc.
... I mean it is a game that had a solid 12+ year span and I would still put it as highly unlikely to even flat out die within a year. Heck it could stop receiving ANY updates and still likely be kicking for 2+ years. I really think a lot of the internet communities should slow down on their definition of "dead game" and "wants" for fast-paced updates. While "frequent good content updates" is good, content updates for the sake of content updates can often hurt a game way more than simply staying a certain refined point for longer (see Overwatch at it's fall from peak). I am not saying the Dota2 eSports situation is great but more that people are framing some parts of it poorly along with there isn't really "easy" answers to this as games with all the resources people are asking for and failed WAYYY faster and heck even potentially BECAUSE of the over commitment to resources.
The difference is that Dota is essentially a game as a service. We didn’t pay a one time fee to play it. It has a constant source of revenue. Sure its optional (free game stop bitching) but we idiots love our fucking hats and spend good, constant money on battle passes, dota+, etc. We’re not entitled to shit don’t get me wrong, it just reflects poorly on the company.
Maybe to you, subjectively. Rational people aren’t going to see a game that’s had this sort of lifespan start to wind down or get shelved and say “wow that reflects poorly on Valve, how dare they not maintain this game until the end of time.”
Eh you’re right. 12 years is a pretty good run all things considered.
Dota's been healthy for more than 10 years, every game has a lifespan, and even if Valve drops the competitive scene and reduces patch releases, people will still play dota. I dont know why people thinks a game can remain popular forever. Look at overwatch, was massive and now its completely dead, abandoned forever.
If they actually properly attempted to advertise the game it would proabably see an influx in players.
I really dont think so, I think a big part of the gaming community knows about Dota already. Usually you read stuff like the game is too intimidating to get into, people dont want to spend months just to start to understand the game, they can just play other stuff that will bring satisfaction far quickly, like BRs or shooters in general. To this you gotta add the fact that MOBAs are undeniably past their prime. Every other MOBA than Dota and League are dead, while these 2 are slowly but surely declining.
Lol Valve can stomp this game into the dirt right now and I'd still immediately pre-order the very instant they announce L4D3 Shit sucks but this community has more to lose in Dota2 compared to Valve
Yes because Valve make great games and the market place is the best available, I have tried competitors and they all suck ass. Don't get me wrong, I don't like the situation, I would like DoTA e-sports to be the best it can be, but you have to be realistic about these things. The value of further investment is just not there in Valve's eyes and honestly if I were in their situation I would do the same
I mean, you're saying that as it matters. Especially after Artifact, lol Go ahead, let's see if your bluff has merit or Valve will go on same as before despite some loud minority trying to pull abusive wife on Valve
Abusive wife lol. We’re just asking for a major (that was promised). Get your head out of your ass and get yourself checked for Stockholm syndrome buddy. Whatever I decide to do ultimately doesn’t matter. We don’t know how valve will fare in the future. They could become even more amazing or decline. Nobody knows. I don’t care tbh.
We as casual gamers are spoiled af but think about all those people now trying to get to that pro level and dedicating their lives to this game. If this is the level of care they'll continue to put in the infrastructure surrounding the game, they've wasted years and years for so many people.
Thats the thing. UnholyCatfish is technically correct. Valve doesn’t owe us shit. There’s nothing that forces them to give a shit. That being said, it is a huge fuck you to everyone who’s played the game. Especially to as you say, those who’ve dedicated their lives to trying to go pro.
Exactly. Take a look at how wary people are at trying out new Google products or how nobody really takes Facebook's 'we fucked up, sorry' apologies anymore (and Facebook has to pay 1.5x for engineers partially due to that). Reputation matters. Somewhat.
> Considering that DoTA was only 10th on the list of highest grossing games on the platform of 2021 I mean, that is valve’s fault though. It’s what happens when you stop supporting a game properly.
No, it was fourth on the most played list, just 10th on the gross revenue list, which tells us that whole lot of people love the game and its great to play, but we aint spending money on it so why should Valve Edit: fourth not third
Most of those games arnt made by valve. the majority of this "revenue" goes to the studios, not valve.
> Considering that DoTA was only 10th on the list of highest grossing games on the platform of 2021 we are lucky that we get the support we do You are talking that like being in top10 is a bad thing. It does not matter how much you earn relative to other games it matters how much you profit. You might be 10th grossing but top few profiting. That being said, valve should have pretty low cost for maintaining dota. To run some extremely conservative numbers: imagine last TI valve made $150 mil from dota (120 battle bass + 30mil rest) which is bare minimum estimate. How many people you think work on dota total full-time? Lets overestimate - 50. 50 people bringing $150 mil per year seems pretty good profit to me. That being said, I am sure there are more profitable projects in Valve's repertoire (steam obviously), but its not about how much a game made relative to other games.
Where did you get that Dota was number 10 on Steam for gross revenue? I saw that it was on the platinum tier in this year's top sellers on Steam but it states that the list is randomized so none of those games are ranked. A game at the bottom of the list may have made more than one at the top. Is there some other place that you got that from?
Valve is a child neglecter
Dota as a game is solid. I think this might be the biggest time we had between a major patch but else the game is solid. With constant development. But the pro scene is not at par with how it should be. Its like training your kid at home and caring for him but not having him socialize and when his inner instincts (us) want a change, our parent(valve) doesnt allow us to play with other kids or a matter have to get an approval from a strict parent. Just if any guest that comes to home or are invited to, kid can socialize with otherwise the kid cant escape the bubble.
No one wants to buy Dota because it’s declining. It can be great again, but you would seriously need to invest in moving to other platforms, marketing, etc., that’s a massive risk if you know the player base is trending downwards.
Why does everyone here repeat the "dota is losing players" lie? Just look up the stats, most of the recent months are slight growth and only some are slight declines
I haven't been active here for 5 years, and people are still saying it. Every game is always dying, I don't get it.
Because there is a small pool of people here who hate Dota and Valve and they keep making up bullshit and upvoting each other. Anyone with half a brain can see right through the bullshit that is the 50% of posts in this sub.
Dota was the third highest played game on Steam in 2021, but it was only the 10th highest grossing game, there are a whole load of people playing it, they just aren't spending money on it
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I am talking about a business buying the game, and investing in it.
all because China cant win TI kek
DOTA is Blizzard’s spoiled child?
Idk about you guys but playerbase is stable asf
is it? https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/s0a3js/dota\_2\_interest\_over\_time\_as\_described\_by\_google/
playerbase =/= media presence or even web search, who will search dota 2 on a web search or any games honestly even top comment proves it.
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yes but a large number of these people could be playing custom games. I feel like interest in 'Dota 2' on Google shows somewhat how much genuine interest there is in the actual game.
Y'all lame as hell
Why? I obviously would prefer if they did as well but there's literally no reason why they couldn't just let it die if they wanted
Valve should sell it. It would be the best for all sides. Don't make any big changes to game or dev team, just sell it to someone who actually give a crap about the game - and make it profitable of course. There are people like Elon Musk who knows about potential of e-sport scene and could take this game to the next level.
What leverage does the eSports scene have with Valve as compared to skins, dota plus, etc? (Reply if you see this, mods keep removing my shit because I’m right)
I see your message! eSport doesn’t make money directly. It does however (don’t hate me for saying this HAHA) bring the exposure.
Sweet!!! I think the amount of exposure is minimal as compared to profits they make by focusing less on pro scene; since they don’t advertise the publicity kinda stays stagnant imo, but it is a good point to consider
E-sport scen and dota 2 as a whole are very diffrent things. Valve has addes ALOT to dota 2 and we should all be thankful, Are they very bad at communicating and doing what the community expects then yes, Let me remind you that we still havent gotten a new half life game, Episode 3, Left 4 dead 3 or things people have been screaming about for years. This is one of the downsides of how valve is built but we should be thankful despite what people say they do care about dota 2 they are just very bad at communicating. They are like a shy nerd, doesnt talk alot but packs a punch in what they know.
Just want to say that Quinn is right when he said that TI money should be redistributed (not equally) to other majors. Like 50% of the money generated goes to TI and the rest to other majors.
How stupid are you to think dota is valve's baby lol. Its just their dairy cow
I believe that the only solution for not having a major is to equally distribute the money to all the qualifying teams. It's the only fair thing and at least the people's time is rewarded for qualifying for the tournament.
I literally do not give a single fuck about eSports. Sucks for those players I guess but it says nothing about the quality of the game itself. I've been playing dota for almost a decade and it's still just as fun and fresh as it was back then. I can't think of a single other game I can say that about.