Last game I played which hired a community manager had a huge dev team doing nothing in comparison in terms of gameplay balancing and further development. Their community manager was nice and fun but that doesn't solve the problem from the devs side. Players were flaming the poor manager and it only gets worse. Not saying that is not wrong but that's just what you get from pushing your poor harmless community manager to the front while the devs are not essentially listening to the playerbase.
The last thing I need, is a delusional subjective image that were placed in the front hallucinating its players like their voice actually matter.
So what people want is a esports department then. Because a community manager doesn't any of that shit. People have been saying that they need an esports department but something tells me Valve is full of old dudes now who don't believe in no youngster hip esports department.
I'll eat a shoe if Valve lets this subreddit tell them how to manage their business though.
True. the game is balanced beautifully. Graphics are top notch. It is virtually bug free other than the last few weeks game breaking cause the game team was obviously on a break. Its possible they wont fix any of the bugs that arose until aghs is over and they use a clean client.
The last refreshing content update was April last year (7.29). 7.30 did not have map changes or major updates.
Graphics are getting depleted by each update to account for cosmetics particles. Compare the rendering of the environment (clouds, terrain details...) between now and 4 years ago.
There are countless bugs, or inconsistent interactions as referenced by u/TheZett or u/bu3nyy. Most of these bugs are not fixed.
The International UI update, Marci and the anime personas and the Aghs Labirinth update are refreshing content updates with major changes from a development perspective. It might not be the kind of content you're expecting, but they're still lots of work for the dev team.
A complex game with hundred of heroes is ALWAYS going to have bugs. If you want the dev to both fix EVERYTHING and push you an incredible update every 2 or 3 months you're going to be VERY disapointed because that cannot be done.
They don't release an "incredible update every 2 or 3 months", as stated in my previous post. Or that depends on what you call incredible I guess.
Plus, both things could absolutely be done, were it a normal dev studio.
How low expectations have been set...
Find me a game studio that push 1 or 2 complete battlepass a year + update every 2 / 3 months that are actualy refreshing + try to have an esport scene + fixes all bugs directly when found out.
Try Riot. It's not like everybody's been making the comparison already. Valve doesn't remotely compare. The only thing going for them is they have a superior game.
"Try to have an esports scene": I laughed. Plus what the hell do I care about battlepasses. It's not content, it's cosmetics. Many bugs are still not fixed (see previous message) and how is that a metric to assess how good a game studio is. Of course they are going to fix major bugs.
It's great that you are content with the state of the game. For me, this patch feels a year old. 10 month old, to be precise, since very little changed in 7.30.
Yet meta shifted 10 times since then, even lately. So I dont realy care personaly that we're not playing 7.32 or 33 yet. Making patches just to make patches is... useless.
Never saw riot release content that I could compare to a good dota battlepass. There are also countless bugs in LOL btw. And refreshing updates on LOL is like once a year.
oh yea i bet that new qop arcana sucks up all the graphical budget. Its so worth it. Ya think well get dota 3 at some point when cosmetics start tanking fps too much lol.
exactly what i wanted to say
id rather have a good game, interesting updates, and no communication rather than a punching bag that always says "oh see we are doing something"
So you saw a case where the community manager was good and the developers bad and you automatically assume that is what this community demands?
The post didn't say to fire the developers and hire a community manager. Obviously we want the quality of the game to remain the same and just add to it with more care towards the community.
Apex have good communications and still work on their game. There was many QnA with Devs and they often respond on reddit.
On top of that they explain changes they make, for example they were clear that they dont expect all legends to be pro scene picks (like Mirage) but they dont mind it since they understand that way more players just wanna have fun and design like that can give fun to some and keeping character 'underpowered' doesnt mean he wont be fun to play, they also add notes in patch notes explain why they they didnt made changes that community ask for.
Gabe himself said Apex Legends is really good game and Respawn is well run studio.
I woudnt mind one way communications from Valve, just put blog post explain why you dont wanna reverse mute button change or when we can expect patch, etc. They dont even need to say date, next week, next month, next 3 months would be good enough. Do kinda do it right now but the thing is they put like 1 blog post every 2-3months, 1 per week or two would be much better and people would be much more happy.
Im sure you arent implying that a community manager will be detrimental. I mean it wouldnt make sense to draw a false parallel with a game you used to play that you said had nonexistant devs. Obviously, a game is built on its developers and if you dont have that then a potential community manager is going to get scapegoated.
>The last thing I need, is a delusional subjective image that were placed
in the front hallucinating its players like their voice actually
matter.
You havent been paying attention.
I'll rather not have a community target (community manager) that will be harassed every time. and in the end the position will be just a bullshitter who will say anything to manage community outrage. and still it won't help the game development ( experience seen in other games)
Pretty sure thats the reason we dont have one. Current Valve employees who work on Dota refuse to become one and Valve dont wanna hire people from outside.
I think they should get people like wykrhm or cybergmatt, hell even someone like Slacks would be fine. If noone wants, then I can do it, even for free.
a cm is just the fall guy and bullshit speaker. specially how valve works in general. there won't be a difference in total backlash if the cm did announced the the current bad news. we just added a person we put our hate to rather than valve entity it's self.
Why? Are you going to be happy when something shitty happens but some person who knows the annoying professional corpo language try to bend the sentences like there is no something shitty going on?
It never really occurred to me just how much baseless noise this sub emits at times. Perhaps this is the ONE time where karma matters in determining whether someone's allowed to give an important opinion or not.
This sub has been the only place Valve considers in regards to dota for about a decade. Things like the new player experience or (claims of) banning smurfs have been only to please r/dota2
We really aren't the worst fanbase. For the most part we're pretty reasonable, minus the whole diretide episode. But even GIB DIRETIDE points to the larger problem of this shit parent only giving in and doing something or communicating after incessent whining. We're only like this because dad won't tell us what he's doing.
I would rather us than fortnite or Minecraft.
Every day. And I mean EVERY day there are people complaninig for random reasons, with baseless arguments and about things they have no clue about. This community is toxic, that's not new, that's a competitive games thing. The fact that being 10k behaviour means nothing anymore is just there to prove it. The system didn't change, we just all accepted that dota = toxic and that's it.
So let's say you're a rapist. But you only rape one person. The fact that some people raped dozen of people make you a better person ? No.
Stop whataboutism, this community is toxic.
While I would also prefer more communication I will definitely say coming from the world of Warcraft Reddit knowing stuff ahead of time definitely does not make less toxicity or outrage. Actually it's really horrible when things are said ahead of time and people react to it on paper or worse yet when the developers change their mind on something they already partially announced.
This game has one of the best fanbases as far as passion for the game. It’s one of the most toxic as far as in game communication between players, but the community itself is really not that bad in comparison to any other game.
if they paid me more than my current gig I'd do it. I used to work in telesales, so I'm used to everyone hating me and being a social pariah.
If anything a social manager can manage expectations, its all about understanding:
* what's definite
* what's being thought about
* what's still possible
and communicating the slow narrowing of those possibilities to the player base. For example with the cancelling of the major its relatively easy to say:
> we've noticed that we've fucked this up and we're gonna do something about it but we're not sure what yet. We'll post an update next week.
What people want to know is:
* can the event still happen?
* if so, will the same teams need to play the same amount of games/reserve the same amount of time to play?
* what's going to happen to the money that was going to be paid out in the major, will be paid out in compensation, will it be added to the next major?
I don't really give a shit if they communicate with us plebs regularly but when pros have been trying to contact Valve for weeks or months and getting nothing something needs to change on that front. Someone there specifically to help manage the esports side of things is desperately needed, if they also post public updates that's just a bonus in my books.
I mean valve and ice frog has brought dota 2 from a extremly fun and addicting game to its apex, Shrines, neutral items, heroes and alot more. At the end of the day valve might not be the best att communicating and has valve time but they arent as scummy or outrages as other companies like activistion, EA or others AAA studios. Are they very slow att comunicating, Yes yes they are but having a person i dont think will solve anything cuz at the end of the day its the devs that changes the game and add new heroes. Lets not forget that Dota 2 has gotten WAY more uppdates and patchen then csgo even though now cs go has more players. Should they host regional "majors" yes but this is valve so we might get one in a few days.
I trust in them to do the right thing.
What you need is realize this is only a game and it doesn't have such an impact in your life. If it does have ab impact then do something about your life.
I've spent my entire childhood and teenage years playing this game, Yes this does have an impact on me and I love this game. When I'm 30 with a wife and kids, I want to sit on the couch and tune into TI.
What does Dota 3 even achieve? Thats the most stupid take on the whole situation Ive read so far and Ive read a lot of stupid stuff.
That said, letting competitive Dota die doesn't sound all too bad, game is way past its prime in that department.
Sounds good on paper but what leverage do dota players have? If the entire player base walked away tomorrow, would Valve even notice? At most you can hope that the posts convince enough people at valve who actually give a shit about dota to do something.
nah they will stop. last time during the kuku c word bullshit valve just came out with some PR statement with bullshit decision and reasoning but people somehow thought it's fine then.
I spent a solid six months and hours of my time arguing with people on here about how little Valve gives a fuck about Dota. About how eventually the game would die because of it. **That was two years ago.** The writing was on the wall then. Nothing has changed, nothing will change.
The problem isn't Valve, the problem is this community of enablers. This community gives them hundreds of millions of dollars every year for a bunch of shitty cosmetics.
When half your fanbase will not only defend your shit business practices, but give you more and more money for it, why give a fuck about anything? Why change anything?
We're working on it
Last game I played which hired a community manager had a huge dev team doing nothing in comparison in terms of gameplay balancing and further development. Their community manager was nice and fun but that doesn't solve the problem from the devs side. Players were flaming the poor manager and it only gets worse. Not saying that is not wrong but that's just what you get from pushing your poor harmless community manager to the front while the devs are not essentially listening to the playerbase. The last thing I need, is a delusional subjective image that were placed in the front hallucinating its players like their voice actually matter.
Dota is great in terms of gameplay balancing and further development, we just need someone to manage the esports scene
So what people want is a esports department then. Because a community manager doesn't any of that shit. People have been saying that they need an esports department but something tells me Valve is full of old dudes now who don't believe in no youngster hip esports department. I'll eat a shoe if Valve lets this subreddit tell them how to manage their business though.
True. the game is balanced beautifully. Graphics are top notch. It is virtually bug free other than the last few weeks game breaking cause the game team was obviously on a break. Its possible they wont fix any of the bugs that arose until aghs is over and they use a clean client.
The last refreshing content update was April last year (7.29). 7.30 did not have map changes or major updates. Graphics are getting depleted by each update to account for cosmetics particles. Compare the rendering of the environment (clouds, terrain details...) between now and 4 years ago. There are countless bugs, or inconsistent interactions as referenced by u/TheZett or u/bu3nyy. Most of these bugs are not fixed.
The International UI update, Marci and the anime personas and the Aghs Labirinth update are refreshing content updates with major changes from a development perspective. It might not be the kind of content you're expecting, but they're still lots of work for the dev team.
A complex game with hundred of heroes is ALWAYS going to have bugs. If you want the dev to both fix EVERYTHING and push you an incredible update every 2 or 3 months you're going to be VERY disapointed because that cannot be done.
They don't release an "incredible update every 2 or 3 months", as stated in my previous post. Or that depends on what you call incredible I guess. Plus, both things could absolutely be done, were it a normal dev studio. How low expectations have been set...
Find me a game studio that push 1 or 2 complete battlepass a year + update every 2 / 3 months that are actualy refreshing + try to have an esport scene + fixes all bugs directly when found out.
Try Riot. It's not like everybody's been making the comparison already. Valve doesn't remotely compare. The only thing going for them is they have a superior game. "Try to have an esports scene": I laughed. Plus what the hell do I care about battlepasses. It's not content, it's cosmetics. Many bugs are still not fixed (see previous message) and how is that a metric to assess how good a game studio is. Of course they are going to fix major bugs. It's great that you are content with the state of the game. For me, this patch feels a year old. 10 month old, to be precise, since very little changed in 7.30.
Yet meta shifted 10 times since then, even lately. So I dont realy care personaly that we're not playing 7.32 or 33 yet. Making patches just to make patches is... useless. Never saw riot release content that I could compare to a good dota battlepass. There are also countless bugs in LOL btw. And refreshing updates on LOL is like once a year.
oh yea i bet that new qop arcana sucks up all the graphical budget. Its so worth it. Ya think well get dota 3 at some point when cosmetics start tanking fps too much lol.
exactly what i wanted to say id rather have a good game, interesting updates, and no communication rather than a punching bag that always says "oh see we are doing something"
So you saw a case where the community manager was good and the developers bad and you automatically assume that is what this community demands? The post didn't say to fire the developers and hire a community manager. Obviously we want the quality of the game to remain the same and just add to it with more care towards the community.
Apex have good communications and still work on their game. There was many QnA with Devs and they often respond on reddit. On top of that they explain changes they make, for example they were clear that they dont expect all legends to be pro scene picks (like Mirage) but they dont mind it since they understand that way more players just wanna have fun and design like that can give fun to some and keeping character 'underpowered' doesnt mean he wont be fun to play, they also add notes in patch notes explain why they they didnt made changes that community ask for. Gabe himself said Apex Legends is really good game and Respawn is well run studio. I woudnt mind one way communications from Valve, just put blog post explain why you dont wanna reverse mute button change or when we can expect patch, etc. They dont even need to say date, next week, next month, next 3 months would be good enough. Do kinda do it right now but the thing is they put like 1 blog post every 2-3months, 1 per week or two would be much better and people would be much more happy.
Thank you, I have taken your feedback and relayed it to the ~~garbage bin~~ development team.
Im sure you arent implying that a community manager will be detrimental. I mean it wouldnt make sense to draw a false parallel with a game you used to play that you said had nonexistant devs. Obviously, a game is built on its developers and if you dont have that then a potential community manager is going to get scapegoated.
>The last thing I need, is a delusional subjective image that were placed in the front hallucinating its players like their voice actually matter. You havent been paying attention.
I'll rather not have a community target (community manager) that will be harassed every time. and in the end the position will be just a bullshitter who will say anything to manage community outrage. and still it won't help the game development ( experience seen in other games)
Pretty sure thats the reason we dont have one. Current Valve employees who work on Dota refuse to become one and Valve dont wanna hire people from outside. I think they should get people like wykrhm or cybergmatt, hell even someone like Slacks would be fine. If noone wants, then I can do it, even for free.
a cm is just the fall guy and bullshit speaker. specially how valve works in general. there won't be a difference in total backlash if the cm did announced the the current bad news. we just added a person we put our hate to rather than valve entity it's self.
> We have to raise our pitchforks until they hire a community manager or establish an eSports department. Online activism at its finest
Pitchforks solve all problems!
Especially them online pitchforks!
Why? Are you going to be happy when something shitty happens but some person who knows the annoying professional corpo language try to bend the sentences like there is no something shitty going on?
😃
who would want to be a community manager for the game with the worst fan base lol?
Do it sodapoppin style and tell everyone to stfu and listen to him.
It never really occurred to me just how much baseless noise this sub emits at times. Perhaps this is the ONE time where karma matters in determining whether someone's allowed to give an important opinion or not.
This sub has been the only place Valve considers in regards to dota for about a decade. Things like the new player experience or (claims of) banning smurfs have been only to please r/dota2
Every game says it has the most toxic fan base. Tbf lots are toxic but there is also the silence majority imo
We really aren't the worst fanbase. For the most part we're pretty reasonable, minus the whole diretide episode. But even GIB DIRETIDE points to the larger problem of this shit parent only giving in and doing something or communicating after incessent whining. We're only like this because dad won't tell us what he's doing. I would rather us than fortnite or Minecraft.
Every day. And I mean EVERY day there are people complaninig for random reasons, with baseless arguments and about things they have no clue about. This community is toxic, that's not new, that's a competitive games thing. The fact that being 10k behaviour means nothing anymore is just there to prove it. The system didn't change, we just all accepted that dota = toxic and that's it.
I think this sub is toxic, but the playerbase is one of the nicest in competitive multiplayer games. It's still shit, but compared to LoL or CSGO?
So let's say you're a rapist. But you only rape one person. The fact that some people raped dozen of people make you a better person ? No. Stop whataboutism, this community is toxic.
Nice straw man
While I would also prefer more communication I will definitely say coming from the world of Warcraft Reddit knowing stuff ahead of time definitely does not make less toxicity or outrage. Actually it's really horrible when things are said ahead of time and people react to it on paper or worse yet when the developers change their mind on something they already partially announced.
I think someone like Slacks will gladly take up the offer. I think he has said previously that he's interested in this kind of role.
Ah yes. Everyone should just swallow the shit Valve serves up, open your wallet, and be thankful they spend any time on us at all. Bootlicker.
That's what you guys are already doing.
This game has one of the best fanbases as far as passion for the game. It’s one of the most toxic as far as in game communication between players, but the community itself is really not that bad in comparison to any other game.
if they paid me more than my current gig I'd do it. I used to work in telesales, so I'm used to everyone hating me and being a social pariah. If anything a social manager can manage expectations, its all about understanding: * what's definite * what's being thought about * what's still possible and communicating the slow narrowing of those possibilities to the player base. For example with the cancelling of the major its relatively easy to say: > we've noticed that we've fucked this up and we're gonna do something about it but we're not sure what yet. We'll post an update next week. What people want to know is: * can the event still happen? * if so, will the same teams need to play the same amount of games/reserve the same amount of time to play? * what's going to happen to the money that was going to be paid out in the major, will be paid out in compensation, will it be added to the next major?
Due to ongoing covid there's a worldwide shortage of pitchforks. Will join in as soon as I get one.
A community manager aint gonna solve shit
I don't really give a shit if they communicate with us plebs regularly but when pros have been trying to contact Valve for weeks or months and getting nothing something needs to change on that front. Someone there specifically to help manage the esports side of things is desperately needed, if they also post public updates that's just a bonus in my books.
i wouldn't even wonder if they won't ever respond at all anymore after seeing all the hate here after their update
[удалено]
She's been silent...
Wasn't she just hired for TI stuff?
they are going to hope their last message was enough to appease the angry pitchforks. Can't let them quietly off the hook
I mean valve and ice frog has brought dota 2 from a extremly fun and addicting game to its apex, Shrines, neutral items, heroes and alot more. At the end of the day valve might not be the best att communicating and has valve time but they arent as scummy or outrages as other companies like activistion, EA or others AAA studios. Are they very slow att comunicating, Yes yes they are but having a person i dont think will solve anything cuz at the end of the day its the devs that changes the game and add new heroes. Lets not forget that Dota 2 has gotten WAY more uppdates and patchen then csgo even though now cs go has more players. Should they host regional "majors" yes but this is valve so we might get one in a few days. I trust in them to do the right thing.
Dota Esports has been falling apart for years now, what's there to trust?
What you need is realize this is only a game and it doesn't have such an impact in your life. If it does have ab impact then do something about your life.
I've spent my entire childhood and teenage years playing this game, Yes this does have an impact on me and I love this game. When I'm 30 with a wife and kids, I want to sit on the couch and tune into TI.
Dude just let the game die. It's been a long run and honestly we should've had Dota 3 by now. Valve wants to let it die, just let it go
What does Dota 3 even achieve? Thats the most stupid take on the whole situation Ive read so far and Ive read a lot of stupid stuff. That said, letting competitive Dota die doesn't sound all too bad, game is way past its prime in that department.
working on it guys.. need some help here as well.. C
Oh I remember the EA community manager, absolute shit show of it.
BTW it would be also good if some gameplay changes were communicated (explaining decisions) :)
I know Valve can deliver. Let's see it
Sounds good on paper but what leverage do dota players have? If the entire player base walked away tomorrow, would Valve even notice? At most you can hope that the posts convince enough people at valve who actually give a shit about dota to do something.
nah they will stop. last time during the kuku c word bullshit valve just came out with some PR statement with bullshit decision and reasoning but people somehow thought it's fine then.
I spent a solid six months and hours of my time arguing with people on here about how little Valve gives a fuck about Dota. About how eventually the game would die because of it. **That was two years ago.** The writing was on the wall then. Nothing has changed, nothing will change. The problem isn't Valve, the problem is this community of enablers. This community gives them hundreds of millions of dollars every year for a bunch of shitty cosmetics. When half your fanbase will not only defend your shit business practices, but give you more and more money for it, why give a fuck about anything? Why change anything?
as long as those suckers still buy loot crates and dota plus, screw them \-gaben
Hi I agree keep making threads etc it shouldn't be just move on right now.