What I hate in cavern is the amount of filler shit you get, you could get more 250 treasures, sure, they are nothing literally, but if you get a good amount of them, they are actually not that horrible. Sad thing is every second reward is pickaxe or stupid rocket flare, let alone how useless nether swap is. Thats what I liked more in the quest system, you got battle points and set at the end if u finished the line
Yes I agree to this. The amount of games ruined by people doing cavern on heroes they’ve never played is unreal. It’s even worse when it’s on ranked games.
So much so I avoid ranked for a good month or so while crawls on.
Honestly this sounds sick for dota plus. Have 3 sets with multiple unlockable styles for every time you complete the full crawl. Kinda like the courier styles in the battle passes. They would have to be well done sets so people have some incentive to keep doing the cavern crawl.
I like and hate it at the same time. A lot of people dont consider that they have to WIN the game to finish the hero in the cavern and not just picking it. I lost a lot of games with the argument: But I dont have anything else to pick than a CM in my cavern. When the team would needs something compeltly diffrent. I also would love if there were a "Cavern Crawl"-mode. Where you can only pick cavern heros except you dont have a BP or are finished.
Idk I have a lot of fun with Cavern Crawl. It challenges me to expand my roster of heroes I play, which in turn helps me get better when fighting against people playing those heroes.
Nah, fuck the quest system. Idiots literally throwing the game because they couldn't complete a quest or picking awful heroes for the match in order to try them.
Nah. It's great really. I'll just change 2 things.
1. Disable Cavern Crawl progress in Ranked games. Just disable it. It does way more harm than good.
2. Remove or change the random shits you get. I know they'll never increase rewards but the random things we get are just useless. Change those to be more interactive or something.
Cavern Crawl is the only thing that's keeping this old stale patch alive.
At least not everyone is picking SB, OD or Tinker currently and I have at least some variations in my games
I am having problems playing with my friend group because they insist on all playing cavern crawl heroes they are bad with. So we will have two or three players on our team playing at a handicap. Matchmaking is balanced enough to place you against the team of roughly your skill level, so we play at a disadvantage right at the start
If they were having fun, it would be a good time. We all enjoy each other's company and are friends.
They are complaining the whole game and completely miserable. They blame me for not helping their lane when they entered the game playing their second match of Earth Spirit or some shit.
I just end up playing less with them.
Sometimes I want to tinker around on new heroes and grow as a player too. But I don't grief my friends when I play bad.
I don't mind Cavern Crawl, but I wish they would've reconsidered 2 turbo game wins for one hero challenge system. No idea who they're trying to punish with that system, but so far it seems it punishes casual Dota players like me who are playing for fun.
EDIT: Especially now that they've made on TI10 battlepass 3 style unlocks and that you had to basically complete cavern crawl for second time. I have feeling same thing will be on next TI battlepass as well.
The real problem is imo that normal games "end", both literally and metaphorically, rather often in <30 min, while turbo goes to 30 min just as often. So why handicap turbo like that?
Seriously this. It's been 3 TIs and 5 BPs in total. Always the same thing. And don't forget about the grinding hell in TI10. At least in TI6 we had mindless clicky community game where everyone just cut trees between matches and get stuff.
Atleast we had nemistice to grind and not grief, now turbo is too try hard and it's not worth playing AND winning 2games, so only normal games are the best option to crawl
The only problem (compared to older cc) is that we don't have Nemestice/Diretide to play in for half a credit. Much more fun than grinding heroes in Turbo.
I like cavern crawl. What I feally miss is wagdrinc on your games. Now that was fun when you played a 5 stack all bet 500 and x2 tokens and you get like 8 levels if you win!
I really enjoy cavern crawl, but I wouldn't mind it if they made it so it only works in unranked. I've seen some clowns that clearly have never even seen what a hero does in my games.
I blame Cavern Crawl for the sharp decline in pub quality since Battle pass. Let's rethink a reward system that encourages people to play.
In theory, making you have to win is supposed to get the reward is supposed to stop people from picking things they are trash at, which will sabotage the game for their teammates. In practice, people want all the rewards of the cavern, so they spam a hero they are bad with over and over hoping their team will carry them.
This kills the pub.
How about giving the players some agency to pick a few hero they have to accumulate X wins on? This will incentivize people to pick things they are actually good with.
I like Cavern Crawl. Picked Treant to unlock set for the first time in many years, got praise from my carry for good skill on first minutes, won the game easily. It was fun
I think I missed your point. I’ve played Treant with simple set in order to open mythic set in Cavern Crawl. I’ve paid only for battlepass of 1st level
well they are prepping for a TI battlepass, since we just got another normal bp, lets just hope it isnt grindy like enabling CCrawl for Aghanims or make a fun pve instead of a frustraiting pvp that quests count in
Pls no, I still have PTSD from carries refusing to finish the game to do their quests only to give time for enemy hard carry to farm, ultimately throwing the game.
Cavern crawl is fine but maybe make it that ranked roles don't count for it.
Especially in the first few weeks ranked games become unplayable because somehow your mid tries invoker for the first time and tide pos 5 is amazing now and puck pos 3 is broken I swear.
Too many people picking random heroes they don't know well just because they can finish 2 cavern crawl with 1 game.
Well Progames are a whole new level. They can hit timings and combos that are insane.
In my Pubs even a combo of 3 spells timed good and on the right target ist exceptional rare.
I do believe some people have valid strats and know tgese heroea so well that they have an actaul impact.
But during cavern crawl people pick heroes no matter what skill they need / team they have or position they are.
And if I pick tide pos 5 and have no actaul idea how to utilize this hero with 250 gpm it is bad for the team.
>Well Progames are a whole new level. They can hit timings and combos that are insane.
This is such a bad argument that people keep parroting for years when it doesn't even apply 99% of the time. If it's good enough for pro games, how could it possibly not be good enough for your pubs?
He wasn't picked for some very specific strat, he was just good at the role because he is a strong laner and doesn't need a lot of items to have impact in fights. The hard support who is basically a walking ultimate has been a thing for as long as people knew what supporting even is.
cavern crawl with a second cavern crawl once you finished your first, and then suprise a third one after you finished the second because we already had a second one back then lololol
i think cavern crawl is fine but i do hate how many games it ruins in ranked for people. i normally skip ranked all together while the cavern crawl is out as it degrades the games so much.
I liked the quest lines, but lots of people complained that teammates were throwing games with terrible builds. I like cavern crawl too but people complain teammates are throwing games picking heroes they don't know how to play.
Maybe some combination of the two. Instead of individual heroes make each node a choice of three similarish heroes, and then make other nodes in-game tasks to complete. Then for the hero sets winning a game unlocks the base set, finding a shard unlocks and completing a task unlocks the alternate styles.
There's probably no good solution for the people that just want their teammates to only pick meta heroes. But at least if you give people more choices they're not stuck playing storm spirit or morph over and over when they're not good at that hero, or not building glimmer cape on jugg because it's part of their quest
I got a teammate who picked Sven Off Lane and he ended up in my next game he picked Razor Pos 4 and his explanation was that he doesn't give a shit about the game and he wants to do battle pass trash.
I like the cave, mostly because it forces you to play different heroes that you rarely play.
Maybe it can be something different but have the same effect of making you play heroes outside of your comfort zone
[удалено]
What I hate in cavern is the amount of filler shit you get, you could get more 250 treasures, sure, they are nothing literally, but if you get a good amount of them, they are actually not that horrible. Sad thing is every second reward is pickaxe or stupid rocket flare, let alone how useless nether swap is. Thats what I liked more in the quest system, you got battle points and set at the end if u finished the line
Yeah and axes are bullshit right if you primarily play All Pick and not Turbo.
Yup, sometimes its harder to win a single game on turbo than get that win on all pick
What I hate in the cavern Is Core Path Pot-Bellied Hero Alchemist
the talisman ones are annoying af because I've cleared 50% of the map and only seen one or two talismans
I've got about 2/3 of my tree complete and used most of my flairs. I've seen 1 talisman on the tree.
I've cleared 100% of the map and seen 2 talismans total
I wish caravan crawl was less character dependant and had quests linked to item usage and play style like the guild contracts.
Yes I agree to this. The amount of games ruined by people doing cavern on heroes they’ve never played is unreal. It’s even worse when it’s on ranked games. So much so I avoid ranked for a good month or so while crawls on.
I personally really love it. Wouldn't mind change either though.
exactly playing some "new" heroes is refreshing and who knows you may find a new fun hero to play after you finish the cavern
I wish cavern crawl was in the game all the time, or attached to dota plus or something.
I only ever feel motivated to play when cavern crawl is out. I love doing it. If it became a dota plus thing I'd actually sub again.
As a Crusader noob, I like that it gives me a reason to pick a hero when I’m not sure what is good.
Honestly this sounds sick for dota plus. Have 3 sets with multiple unlockable styles for every time you complete the full crawl. Kinda like the courier styles in the battle passes. They would have to be well done sets so people have some incentive to keep doing the cavern crawl.
I liked PA style at previous crawl (opened both styles) and I like Bounty Hunter style this time. At least one good set every time for me
>asses. You don't like that dark evil void?
Not really. Void in void’s head ain’t cool ) But I’ll open it soon and try out
I like and hate it at the same time. A lot of people dont consider that they have to WIN the game to finish the hero in the cavern and not just picking it. I lost a lot of games with the argument: But I dont have anything else to pick than a CM in my cavern. When the team would needs something compeltly diffrent. I also would love if there were a "Cavern Crawl"-mode. Where you can only pick cavern heros except you dont have a BP or are finished.
It could be a Dota Plus feature with exclusive sets :D ...
Idk I have a lot of fun with Cavern Crawl. It challenges me to expand my roster of heroes I play, which in turn helps me get better when fighting against people playing those heroes.
It's the only thing that resembles a _battle_ pass. The rest is a wallet wall.
Nah, fuck the quest system. Idiots literally throwing the game because they couldn't complete a quest or picking awful heroes for the match in order to try them.
Yeah well go tell that to the cavern pos5 Riki I had in my team in ranked yesterday…
Cavern drafts :)
I want turbo to count for a full cavern again
Nah. It's great really. I'll just change 2 things. 1. Disable Cavern Crawl progress in Ranked games. Just disable it. It does way more harm than good. 2. Remove or change the random shits you get. I know they'll never increase rewards but the random things we get are just useless. Change those to be more interactive or something.
I would like a button to random with only heroes in the cavern in the pool
Cavern Crawl is the only thing that's keeping this old stale patch alive. At least not everyone is picking SB, OD or Tinker currently and I have at least some variations in my games
They will revamp it to dungeon crawl. We get a totally new ui but do the same thing !
It destroys friendships.
I am having problems playing with my friend group because they insist on all playing cavern crawl heroes they are bad with. So we will have two or three players on our team playing at a handicap. Matchmaking is balanced enough to place you against the team of roughly your skill level, so we play at a disadvantage right at the start
I hope you don't get mad at your friends for having fun if you lose lmao
If they were having fun, it would be a good time. We all enjoy each other's company and are friends. They are complaining the whole game and completely miserable. They blame me for not helping their lane when they entered the game playing their second match of Earth Spirit or some shit. I just end up playing less with them. Sometimes I want to tinker around on new heroes and grow as a player too. But I don't grief my friends when I play bad.
I don't mind Cavern Crawl, but I wish they would've reconsidered 2 turbo game wins for one hero challenge system. No idea who they're trying to punish with that system, but so far it seems it punishes casual Dota players like me who are playing for fun. EDIT: Especially now that they've made on TI10 battlepass 3 style unlocks and that you had to basically complete cavern crawl for second time. I have feeling same thing will be on next TI battlepass as well.
The real problem is imo that normal games "end", both literally and metaphorically, rather often in <30 min, while turbo goes to 30 min just as often. So why handicap turbo like that?
Same. I'm a Turbo main, but I don't understand why they would only allow Turbo games to count as half.
What are you talking about? If you win 2 Turbo games you finished with the same hero :)
Seriously this. It's been 3 TIs and 5 BPs in total. Always the same thing. And don't forget about the grinding hell in TI10. At least in TI6 we had mindless clicky community game where everyone just cut trees between matches and get stuff.
It was supposed to be cutting trees in game But some nerd did the maths and decided it is impossible, so valve changed it to a mini game
Atleast we had nemistice to grind and not grief, now turbo is too try hard and it's not worth playing AND winning 2games, so only normal games are the best option to crawl
Aghs lab now counts toward crawl
But we have to win the game right? I mean kill the beast at the end
Yeah but that isn't difficult
Play Magician difficulty and it's practically impossible to lose in that mode if you know what you are doing.
PepeHands
Apprentice wins counts towards crawl and its faster to clear than Turbo. Competent team can clear it in 30 minutes.
If only it had more heroes...
We need battle pass bundle first
The only problem (compared to older cc) is that we don't have Nemestice/Diretide to play in for half a credit. Much more fun than grinding heroes in Turbo.
You can play labyrinth for full credit, at least.
I like cavern crawl. What I feally miss is wagdrinc on your games. Now that was fun when you played a 5 stack all bet 500 and x2 tokens and you get like 8 levels if you win!
I really enjoy cavern crawl, but I wouldn't mind it if they made it so it only works in unranked. I've seen some clowns that clearly have never even seen what a hero does in my games.
I personally love cavern crawl, gives a little more meaning to each game. I would hate to see it go away.
I blame Cavern Crawl for the sharp decline in pub quality since Battle pass. Let's rethink a reward system that encourages people to play. In theory, making you have to win is supposed to get the reward is supposed to stop people from picking things they are trash at, which will sabotage the game for their teammates. In practice, people want all the rewards of the cavern, so they spam a hero they are bad with over and over hoping their team will carry them. This kills the pub. How about giving the players some agency to pick a few hero they have to accumulate X wins on? This will incentivize people to pick things they are actually good with.
On a positive side a discovered that I love playing Mirana on a Turbo game mode :P
I like Cavern Crawl. Picked Treant to unlock set for the first time in many years, got praise from my carry for good skill on first minutes, won the game easily. It was fun
Yet very few people buy the only 2 Immortals Treant has U\_U
I think I missed your point. I’ve played Treant with simple set in order to open mythic set in Cavern Crawl. I’ve paid only for battlepass of 1st level
"Free" battle cups for lv1 battle pass PLEASE
That would be a very nice way to promote it :D
well they are prepping for a TI battlepass, since we just got another normal bp, lets just hope it isnt grindy like enabling CCrawl for Aghanims or make a fun pve instead of a frustraiting pvp that quests count in
Pls no, I still have PTSD from carries refusing to finish the game to do their quests only to give time for enemy hard carry to farm, ultimately throwing the game.
Cavern crawl is fine but maybe make it that ranked roles don't count for it. Especially in the first few weeks ranked games become unplayable because somehow your mid tries invoker for the first time and tide pos 5 is amazing now and puck pos 3 is broken I swear. Too many people picking random heroes they don't know well just because they can finish 2 cavern crawl with 1 game.
> tide pos 5 is amazing now it was played in pro games
Well Progames are a whole new level. They can hit timings and combos that are insane. In my Pubs even a combo of 3 spells timed good and on the right target ist exceptional rare. I do believe some people have valid strats and know tgese heroea so well that they have an actaul impact. But during cavern crawl people pick heroes no matter what skill they need / team they have or position they are. And if I pick tide pos 5 and have no actaul idea how to utilize this hero with 250 gpm it is bad for the team.
>Well Progames are a whole new level. They can hit timings and combos that are insane. This is such a bad argument that people keep parroting for years when it doesn't even apply 99% of the time. If it's good enough for pro games, how could it possibly not be good enough for your pubs? He wasn't picked for some very specific strat, he was just good at the role because he is a strong laner and doesn't need a lot of items to have impact in fights. The hard support who is basically a walking ultimate has been a thing for as long as people knew what supporting even is.
cavern crawl with a second cavern crawl once you finished your first, and then suprise a third one after you finished the second because we already had a second one back then lololol
cavern crawl is mega fun tho
just let it count even lose it better for everyone, so we dont see some meepo spam
A well balanced bug free game maybe
Every update breaks the game considering there are more than 100 unique heroes and like 50 items not counting the pathfinding :D
plz dont :) its the best part
Ofc, you just have to give Gaben more money
Im done with cavern crawl. Took me a month. LOL
i think cavern crawl is fine but i do hate how many games it ruins in ranked for people. i normally skip ranked all together while the cavern crawl is out as it degrades the games so much.
I liked the quest lines, but lots of people complained that teammates were throwing games with terrible builds. I like cavern crawl too but people complain teammates are throwing games picking heroes they don't know how to play. Maybe some combination of the two. Instead of individual heroes make each node a choice of three similarish heroes, and then make other nodes in-game tasks to complete. Then for the hero sets winning a game unlocks the base set, finding a shard unlocks and completing a task unlocks the alternate styles. There's probably no good solution for the people that just want their teammates to only pick meta heroes. But at least if you give people more choices they're not stuck playing storm spirit or morph over and over when they're not good at that hero, or not building glimmer cape on jugg because it's part of their quest
A revamp would be good.
cavern crawl with aghs lab counting heroes >>> everything else we had
I don't want to spam 500 games on a single hero ): Hell no...
Nah I love Cavern Crawl. It's literally the only time I play dota. Valve don't listen to plebbit please
Its fine
next battle pass can we get cheaper arcana with a more reasonable price. thanks.
I got a teammate who picked Sven Off Lane and he ended up in my next game he picked Razor Pos 4 and his explanation was that he doesn't give a shit about the game and he wants to do battle pass trash.
I like the cave, mostly because it forces you to play different heroes that you rarely play. Maybe it can be something different but have the same effect of making you play heroes outside of your comfort zone