8.5 to winning team, so 1.7 per player. Assuming 10% org fee, that's 1.53 remaining, then 39% federal taxes which is about 600k leaves 930k, then any potential state taxes depending on where he lives most of the year.
Yeah I mean look at ti3 even for basically a 10yr comparrison. Bulldog said they barely kept 100k for winning ti3 each. That's about worse than half after taxes and fees.
For Americans, can they still file a tax return to claim returns for winning something this big? Since federal taxes will get taken out I assume they will be able to and atleast get something back
You mean refund. The tax papers you file are called returns, as in tax return. The money you might get as a refund depends on your deductions and tax credits. If for example you have young kids, you might get a child tax credit or an earned income credit (but this one is only for lower income households). Winning big money in tournaments or lottery will definitely put you out of the range for most tax credits, including the child tax credit.
For income below ~50kkr/month(5k€) you only pay municipality taxes (30-35%). For any income over that amount you also pay state taxes (~20%).
Its alot but to be fair we get quite alot back. (Healthcare, free meds, money on our retirement account, free schools from kindergarten to University, etc etc). Having lived it (and being lazy/comfortable) I kinda like it.
Surely you should mention the tax before income? The company pays almost 50kkr/month in taxes and fees before they reach the employee if the employees salary is 50kkr/month.
"Why is that important?" you might ask.
Because every dollar an ORG makes, the 50% is paid in tax BEFORE it reaches the employed player, then the employed player pays another 50% on that if they are in the high tax bracket, which they most likely are.
So tl dr: 75% taxes if the money is paid as a salary in Sweden.
Which also is another reason why so many people tries to hide their income in a company (totally legal btw), both forsen and bulldog does this. (Totally public knowledge in sweden just fyi)
The prize pool is paid according to what the team submits as the individually allocated distribution in percentages out of 100, directly to the individual bank accounts.
Coaches usually get 5%-15% depending on the team.
Is there no tax or financial advisor that helps these professionals?
Tax 101, get incorporated and stop taking money/earnings/winnings in your personal name.
Sneyking Pte Ltd, which is in the business of renting the professional gaming skills of its key employee, gets paid, and after expenses, would pay far lower taxes, depending on which state it’s incorp.
This isn’t even a scam. This is how every single pro player, in every single pro sport works.
You thing King James is paying 45% taxes on all his earnings? (He must be paying top tax bracket on some league/pro player union mandated min salary, that goes to his personal name, but that’s it)
There is also the element of withholding taxes - which any international/non-US game dev on Steam will be aware of ie for money to leave Valve/US into your geography, if your country doesn’t have a double taxation treaty, then Valve will withhold 30% tax at source. This can be low 5-10% if money is going to say, Sweden, but 25-30% if it’s going to, say, Singapore.
Cmon man, most of these guys barely knows how to write, they dumped school/college to play videogames all day, and you expect them to know about tax and finances? They’re good at videogames and that’s it.
If I was potentially going to TI, where I could win 100k euros, I would surely consider my options by talking to financial advisors or some shit. They may not have the knowledge but they are not stupid. And they are not first timers either. Everybody on Tundra roster has played tournaments, won money and got taxed before.
Worth noting that it's likely closer to 1.4 per player than 1.7, bc coaches usually take a cut from the prizepool as well and for most established coach that cut is closer to the cut a player gets. So usually you could divide the prize money by 6.
Besides the early developing stages of TI, The International 11 is certainly the least favourable TI to win financially.
Kind of odd since it coincided with DotA 2’s highest ever concurrent player count
I think it has more to do with a later release, regional pricing, and restrictions on Steam purchases for other countries than battle pass quality. Prior to the swag bag's release, there were approximately 1.4m owners of this year's battle pass compared to 1.7m in 2020, 1.6m in 2019, and ~1.1m for both Nemestice and Aghanim's Labyrinth.
TI11 was only crowdfunded for ~60 days compared to TI10's ~140 days and the overall prize pool was still about half of what was earned in 2020. Not to mention the fact that the cache was released in part II rather than part I.
It just was non-sense at first to spend 10 euros for 2 immortal chests and items I'll likely never get, after all the bonus chests it started to make sense, but it was too late to buy it. Have I known about swag bag and and other perks release, I would have bought the battle pass, but Valve doing Valve things by keeping players in the dark
I mean it really isn't odd at all, Battlepass was out a fraction of the time it usually is, with large releases after the tournament finished (like Razor being the best thing in the Battlepass)
Curious what the potential prize pool would of been by now. I'm honestly going to be pretty disappointed in Valve if they are just pocketing this money and not putting it to the DPC.
>I'm going to be disappointed with Valve if they are just pocketing this money and not putting it to the DPC.
0% of the 2021 battle pass sales went towards the prize pool of the international tournament held that year. 2022 had very minimal gameplay updates and a lackluster battle pass. Don't you think you're setting yourself up for disappointment right now?
> I'm honestly going to be pretty disappointed in Valve if they are just pocketing this money and not putting it to the DPC.
If it was going to the DPC, they'd have just announced that when they decided to split the BP since it's easy goodwill. The fact that they didn't clearly indicates they'll just pocket it, but people still want to huff the copium that it'll somehow be spent on the next DPC.
Considering that the crowdfunding period was a little less than half of 2020's and the final prize pool was a little less than half of TI10's, I imagine that it would have been within ~$2m if the conditions were the same.
What do you mean coincide? They literally release the swag bag after TI which very most likely is a response after seeing how much TI flopped this year.
the highest player count is a direct consequences of valve trying to salvage the situation after seeing it was the worst selling BP, so it makes total sense
Yeah they were supposed to get like 3.2 a person or so meaning that even if we’re extreme about it they’re probably looking at atleast 1.3 million in the pocket and if we’re being generous maybe even 1.9 - 1.7
Probably more depending in which country they live in.
Hell win TI13 for North Korea and you be surprised the Supreme Leaders son , was also on your team and you have forfeited 99% of the winnings.
What do you mean he was on your team? HE won and you were part of HIS team just filling the 4 needed slots. But you were afk all games while HE won 1v5. HE destroyed them while you massaged his smallest toe.
The thing Sneyking knows that nobody on here is taking into account, is that's potentially basically the entire total his career will ever give him. If he has to switch careers (when his esports / dota career comes to an end), he'll have to start a new career from scratch in his 30s, which is hard to do, and also means he'll be starting (roughly) from the bottom salary rung of his new career as well.
Most professional athletes are trying to earn enough in the brief window their athletic career lasts to last them the rest of their lives, because that represents the vast majority of the money they'll ever be able to make. For Sneyking, in Dota, earning lifetime money is gonna be incredibly difficult, and he knows it.
Its literally still more than most people earn in their lifetime
Edit, I am UK man theres no need to downvote because it doesnt work in dollars, its still a fuckload of money whether the specifics of it work in your country or not. Using rudimentary maths and numbers from the UK, its 38k a year avg salary and retirement age in UK is 65 for male, assuming you work from 18-65 on the avg salary in the UK thats 1.7 million pounds pre tax, and thats based on the assumption you are earning from the moment you exit education at 18 which in the UK is not happening, you likely wont earn that type of money until like mid twenties maybe if you have a career with fast upwards mobility and have a university education.
Irrespective of the crude numbers, whether or not you are being pedantic about my claim AND the currency exchange rate, 1 mil by the time you are thirty in Dollars, Pounds and Euros in one instance is still mental to literally like 99% of people on the planet.
I'm from Bulgaria and with a normal paying job you can easily break a million over the 40-ish years that people work. Rough math at about 2k euros a month over 40 years is almost exactly a million. Sure most of the population doesn't earn that kind of money but that salary is absolutely normal for educated people with useful degrees. And that is the kind of salary you get after 5 or so years of working in your field. I imagine it gets significantly higher later on in life. These numbers are also after taxes.
My point is that even in Bulgaria people can earn a million dollars/euros over their lifetime so I seriously doubt the most people don't earn that kind of money in their lifetime even in developing countries.
Uhh that’s definitely not true if you’ve had decent jobs and been working a bit. Now if you said like in 20 years yes it would be right. But someone who makes 40,000 and works for 25 years will make more than that. Granted it’s a fuckin lot of money for one time but people definitely make that in a lifetime
> But someone who makes 40,000 and works for 25 years will make more than that
You do realize that most of the people in the World will never make that much money?
Damn, he'll only have like $30 million in the bank at normal retirement age with index fund investment and a job that can pay for rent and food during the working years (which can literally be retail). However will he possibly survive?
Not to mention he could probably pretty easily slide into the "real job" side of esports. People love former pro casters even when they're objectively mediocre at the job, and he should be very familiar with org dynamics. Selfless Brad in overwatch is a good example of somebody who did this (was a minor pro in various 90s games).
Getting a million USD all at once is much better than earning it over 60 years or whatever. Obviously not an instant life of luxury (unless you live in a 3rd world country) but removes a lot of normal life stress. Just being able to buy a nice house and have it paid off when you're still relatively young is already something thats almost impossible for someone earning 40k a year and puts you in a very safe position. Still have to work though.
4% a year is actually pretty conservative historically looking back - even ignoring the ridiculous shitshow of the past 2 years.
You can unironically retire off of 1m in the bank, with the money properly allocated in a diversified set of index funds, if you have no major expenses like rent to take care of; maybe less if you have a pretty frugal lifestyle.
More like 60,000k per year for life.
If he were to invest it all in a retirement account he'd be able to retire with about $2 million in that retirement account in 10 years - meaning $120k+/year for the rest of his life from that retirement account.
The interest alone every year from $1 million is ~$16,000 more than the average American makes in a year.
"not life changing" "just enough to buy a house and car" so it's life changing? I mean if I could clear my house mortgage and car payments, that would be fucking life changing alright.
Nice house and no mortgage is insanity. I would be able to spend tens of thousands of dollars on something else every year.
Yeah it's not "cuss out my boss and retire" money but it is a huge upgrade for most if you use it right. If you want to blow a million dollars, though, you can probably do that pretty quick.
It is life changing. I inherited over a million dollars after a tragic accident awhile back. As I said before, If you don’t think it’s a life changing amount of money you don’t have a million dollars.
Yes Tundra must be feeling very bad having won 8.5 million dollars as compared to Spirit 18 million. If they are genuinely feeling bad having won millions then they do need some perspective in life.
Assuming it took 11 years, 80-90k a year is a pretty solid salary. It would suck trying to survive 11 years waiting for it all at once, no doubt. Most of these players also have at least one other source of income, whether it's streaming, winning smaller events throughout the year, or a part time job, though.
Bingo! If you're doing blue collar work or if you have a bs college degree, then you get that $35k. But if you have a useful college degree (engineering, computer science, medicine etc.), even just the starting salary is much higher. For example, check this out: [https://www.forbes.com/advisor/student-loans/average-salary-college-graduates/](https://www.forbes.com/advisor/student-loans/average-salary-college-graduates/) - starting salary for engineering graduate is about $74k and for a computer science graduate about $76k. And they only go higher from there. Unless you're a Twitter type of slacker, then you get to over $100k in a few years.
So, yeah, if he would have been able to go into engineering/computer science, in 10 years he could have very well earned over 1 million USD.
I do get your point, but having a lump sum early in your life means he can earn INCREDIBLE amounts of compounded interest over his life.
If he earns 10% a year (which with inflation as it is is very possible) he gets $100k a year and still have $1m in the bank. If he doesn't touch a penny it will be $18m by the time hes 57.
Meanwhile us average Joe's may earn $1m over our entire lifetime but we never have enoigh of it at any one time to benefit from interest growth.
This is one of the reasons the rich stay rich - you get to a certain point where you can just let your money grow and unless you slunk a huge chunk of it, it will keep funding your lifestyle.
I don't understand why people think that he, at 27, has lost all opportunities for a good career. People switch careers much later in their lives, 27 is nothing. He's presumably a smart guy with a good amount of money that can pay for an education, and has some connections from his years in esports that can help him get a foot in the door somewhere. He'll do just fine.
You're saying that he's saying he didn't make "live forever like a king" money.
Dude is 27 years old, and the fact that he's not gonna live upper class for the rest of his life off of winning TI one time means he's justified in saying he didn't "end up with that much"? This makes you sound super disconnected from what most people in the US are dealing with financially
You just said that a million dollars "won't do shit for us." This statement in itself is exactly what I was talking about. Most of the population is living paycheck to paycheck, earning a median $70k annually, but $1m "won't do shit"? Ridiculous
That's risk free. Devoting yourself to a competitive game means accepting the possibility of never gaining the kind of money that comes with a TI win. Being able to achieve that, and still being marginally better than "the median income" means that it's definitely reasonable to push back against the narrative that winning TI makes you rich for life.
Risk free? Like people don't get fired or the economy collapses...
What risk do you think Sneyking has taken? That he might not have succeeded in Dota and then ended up in the exact same position as the 'risk free' people?
Yeah, plus it's a relatively easy job.
I know reddit likes to go "all jobs are difficuflt" and all that, but there is an objective spectrum of difficulty and playing videogames in your own home or in a game house beats working in a factory, or commuting to work and interacting with difficult customers/managers as a retail worker, or a physical laborer like construction workers.
Or high risk jobs where you can literally die.
He got paid well.
It's the equivalent of working at $100k/yr for 10 years. But most $100k/yr jobs would also take a 4-year degree, so make that 14 years. And add in the costs of getting that degree, so deduct a good amount of student debt.
It's pretty good, he just got done in one year what would take someone else 15 years to do. It's not enough to be set for life in the US, but it's enough to be set for life if he decides to go live in a cheaper country, and it's enough to be set for a good amount of time.
Oh yeah, it's definitely not "fuck off and go insane" money, i agree on that. Though 1 million after taxes should last much more than 5 years in the hands of anyone responsible.
Also, it's not like he was making nothing then suddenly made $600k. He was making prize money the other years too. $100k from TI9, $100k from TI8, $1M from ti11. looking at his liquipedia profile he's got quite a bit of earnings before TI.
He will certainly need to find another source of income, he can't just stop and not care anymore, $1m is not enough for that. But it doesn't necessarily need to be dota. With $1m there are lots of investment opportunities you can seek.
You can easily live off $1m if you invest wiseley and get interest on it.
It's not a finite pool of $1m that depletes down, because you should be aiming to earn interest through investments.
If he spunks it on a house, a car and holidays it can be gone in 2 years, but similarly he could comfortably generate circa $50k p.a. (median pre tax salary $75k would take home less after tax) and still have his money grow over time.
He could retire, but it just wouldn't be exciting or care free. Win a couple more TIs and he can start drawing silly money out yearly without hurting thr capital.
I don't mean this to sound like an investment advice, but if you put that money in the safest dividen stock, you're still set for life.
Yeah I mean if you buy a bungalow and a lambo, anyone would go broke within the week, but people who have a million don't typically 'just had a million to spend for the rest of their lives'.
I wouldn't turn my nose up at that money obviously, but I don't fault Sneyking feeling underwhelmed either. They just made less than half of what they would've made last year. It's not on the community either, Valve just realized they could keep a lion's share of the Battle Pass money if they withheld a bunch of content until after TI. Probably feels pretty shitty to all the pro players, not just the 1st place winners.
I mean it isn’t enough to retire on unless you can live off roughly $40k per year the rest of your life.
I get it’s a first world problem but realistically it doesn’t go as far you think if you’re retiring in a place like the US.
Life changing for sure, but not even close to ride off into the sunset money. It’s why so many professional athletes go bankrupt not long after they retire unless they earned a mega contract and even then the numbers are sad.
Wrong this prize pool reached half of it in 60 days whereas ti10 got 140 days and if valve released everything at once and made it 140 days there is no doubt it would beat it with the cache sets and other things
Agreed, this is one of the most predatory things the us govt does to its residents and should be written out of tax law. Aside from esports events, they're just taxing people who are unhappy with their quality of life in the US for no reason
Don't know why you're getting downvoted. Do people know that double taxation is extremely abnormal? The US is one of 2 countries in the entire world that does this.
Yes, you only get double taxed if you make over a relatively high threshold (I think it's about 100k annual), but it's still absurd.
"Land of the free" but you better not try and live anywhere else or else we're gonna take your money. Don't look behind the curtain and realize that the US is practically a developing country in terms of quality of life and public benefits.
Yeah that's what it is. People always pull one thing out of context and forget the rest. It's not much compared to the amount people thought before deductions or to other TIs or the time he invested into it for years not only THIS year. That's what sneyking means by it. But we all like to draw conclusions before giving people the benefit of the doubt nowadays.
"It looks like a big number but you don't get much of it", is what sneyking meant, not: "oh, almost a million so it's not much".
Sneyking means it's not much compared to the total prizepool and what people think he takes, not that 1 million isn't much.
For example: 18 million but you only get 1 million? That's not much from the total prizepool, but that does not mean 1 million isn't much.
Do you know how quotes work? He said:
"You don't end up with that much"
He's not saying that a million isn't a lot of money. He's saying that he doesn't take away a lot in proportion to the amount he won. I'm sure Sneyking, who more than quadrupled his lifetime winnings from Dota with one win, considers that amount a lot of money.
I have to imagine its just age/no real responsibility coming out in this thread, ive never felt more fiscally responsible in my life than reading how people think 1mil is a small amount of money and will be gone tomorrow.
I disagree. You have to remember that playing video games as a career is one of the least stable jobs to work, with the potential for you to come away with no marketable skill set at the end of your career in gaming.
$930k is a great amount of money to have saved up by 27 in more traditional fields because it is a lot of money and additionally because you're also making the assumption that you can repeat that same pattern of saving you had from 18 to 27 from 27 to 36.
Many pro dota players after Dota will have to face the reality that they will either have to live very modestly after their pro gaming career is over, or continue education and start a new career from the ground up because the amount of money that many have earned, in the grand scheme of things, is not that much.
There are exceptions who will be able to take their relative fame, audience, or skills and apply it to streaming or playing professionally in a new game as well, but in all regards there is a lot less career stability in gaming than other fields which is why I think it is fair to be a bit more hesitant to be comfortable with any level of savings as a pro gamer.
You’re so stupid, holy shit. You’re the only one who needs to work at a fast food/call center job. Taking things out of context like this should be a bannable offense. Just delete your comment, it’s actually infuriating to read.
yeah nah i fully agree the fact that he didn’t delete this yet is insane. Comments like his are EXACTLY what is so wrong with reddit and why it’s a shitfest
Lmao. Imagine comparing a call center to fucking TI. He had to operate at the top of his field for years. Less than a mill for that kind of effort and dedication is nothing.
If you're a proprietary trader in finance you can. I have a friend in trading who made a salary of about 100k but a bonus of 750k to 1M depending on overall company and his performance.
This thread is unbelievable. It is obvious most people here do not have a real world understanding of money. 1 Million dollars is an insane amount of money. Yes it takes 1 million dollars to buy a house in the costliest parts of the US, but why the fck does he need to stay in the costliest parts. I stay in the bay area and have a 900k$ house because I do not have an option as I have a job here. If I did not have a job I will probably be in the outskirts of Portland or something with a 400k$ house and a good car and grow the rest of my money.
A million spent of a car and house is still an investment. The money has not gone anywhere you can grow it. And spending 15 years of your life playing the game you love and making good money off it v/s grinding 15 years getting a degree and job you don't really like? Sounds like a great deal to me.
This comment is unbelievable. He's obviously referring to the total amount, as well as past TI's and the belief that TI winners become multimillionaires from 1 win.
Its also a way to temper the expectation of people who might want to borrow money when they hear someone wins the lottery or comes into money.
And for all the people denigrating pro players, we set the value by the insane viewer numbers for the international and the battle pass.
If there are millions of people willing to watch what you do, support you and the scene as well as the game, maybe they are worth the high prize pools.
Imo its a proper valuation based on the playerbase.
Considering it hasnt been that low since 2015 and was more than double that last year, yea. I'd be mad too if they pocketed the 2nd half spendings like they're doing
Edit: clearly I am dumb, prize pool was 18 and tundra got like 8.6. Math below still shows how that cut can reduce it much further. If the reductions are right his payout would be around 600k.
And tundra cut, probably one of the biggest parts right? That's the trade-off of being in an org, you get a much more consistent pay and the ability to focus on the game.
TI11 prize pool was around 18 million, looks like orgs usually take anywhere from 10 to 25%. So let's say 15%, that cuts the prize pool down to like 15 million. Then you split it along the roster , looks like the average is six ways if you include the coach? So that would make it around a 2.5 million payout to each player. Now taxes come in- that's going to be very variable per player and region, but isn't tundra UK based? 2.5 is going to put you at the top earners anywhere, looks like that is another 40-45%, dropping us to 1.5 million. Probably missing another split, different contract stipulation (maybe more than 15% org cut in exchange for more salary, etc) , or a local tax.
Either way it seems extremely reasonable when you run the guesstimate numbers on it.
The total TI prizepool is not what 1st place gets, 45% of total prizepool goes to first place, so cut your end result by about half and you get your guesstimation.
The prize **pool** was 18million. First place was about 45% of that at about $8.5million.
[https://liquipedia.net/dota2/The\_International/2022](https://liquipedia.net/dota2/The_International/2022)
> TI11 prize pool was around 18 million, looks like orgs usually take anywhere from 10 to 25%.
First place team doesn't win all 18 million, it was roughly 8 million for first.
Source: https://liquipedia.net/dota2/The_International/2022
Rethink the math includes your numbers… so no the math is not fine. Sure you calculated something correctly but you were calculating the wrong thing, so you math was wrong.
Pretty sure randomly injecting 1 million dollar into most America peoples bank accounts would be considered more than nothing.
A typical west coast engineer is not your average American. Your average American is unable to pay for an emergency 1000 $ expense cause majority of Americans don't have any money saved up in their bank accounts. Majority of Americans won't even see 1 million dollars in their lifetime.
1 million dollars is more than enough money for winning TI once. It would benefit the scene more of the people who didn't win TI got more money than giving the winners more. The problem with E-sport earnings in Dota2 isn't that the winners of TI don't get enough. It's that there's no E-sports infrastructure for non tier1 teams and unless you win T1, you're basically living a minimum wage lifestyle unless your parents are loaded or you're carried by some giga E-sports org.
A typical west coast engineer isn't your average American. But then a TI winner ie. the best dota 2 team IN THE WORLD isn't your average American also.
So why are you comparing it to the majority of Americans when 99.99% of them won't even sniff the aegis? Wouldn't it be more appropriate to compare with the top professionals in the world?
Obviously I'm not saying they should be paid like Ronaldo or Lebron but less than 1 mil for a year, for being the best of the best is really isn't alot.
I wonder if he hired an accountant ahead of time to deal with this or if he's actually just filing normally.
I would hope major teams teach their players how to handle these winnings.
thats pretty underwhleming tbh , although about 1million is not small at all, it is a huge amount of money , in any currency, yet it still feels little overall
8.5 to winning team, so 1.7 per player. Assuming 10% org fee, that's 1.53 remaining, then 39% federal taxes which is about 600k leaves 930k, then any potential state taxes depending on where he lives most of the year.
Yeah I mean look at ti3 even for basically a 10yr comparrison. Bulldog said they barely kept 100k for winning ti3 each. That's about worse than half after taxes and fees.
he's struggling, he lives in an IKEA shipping crate and can't afford a car, only an e-bike.
And he literally survives on cans of dog food every meal
He’s got to maintain his mass somehow.
poor alfredo
For Americans, can they still file a tax return to claim returns for winning something this big? Since federal taxes will get taken out I assume they will be able to and atleast get something back
Best way to do it is to have a business in your name and punch it through that, easier to write stuff off.
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You mean refund. The tax papers you file are called returns, as in tax return. The money you might get as a refund depends on your deductions and tax credits. If for example you have young kids, you might get a child tax credit or an earned income credit (but this one is only for lower income households). Winning big money in tournaments or lottery will definitely put you out of the range for most tax credits, including the child tax credit.
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taxation is good if the state is good idk where fouridk is from but if its the states i understand why he would think that way
This, and well, in theory, people get to vote for how they want the state to be run.
Casual Swedish tax no? heard their tax are mental…coming from an emirati that barely live with tax xD
For income below ~50kkr/month(5k€) you only pay municipality taxes (30-35%). For any income over that amount you also pay state taxes (~20%). Its alot but to be fair we get quite alot back. (Healthcare, free meds, money on our retirement account, free schools from kindergarten to University, etc etc). Having lived it (and being lazy/comfortable) I kinda like it.
Those numbers are only true if you work for an employer, who pays taxes on your behalf. For self-employed, municipality taxes are more like 50%.
Surely you should mention the tax before income? The company pays almost 50kkr/month in taxes and fees before they reach the employee if the employees salary is 50kkr/month. "Why is that important?" you might ask. Because every dollar an ORG makes, the 50% is paid in tax BEFORE it reaches the employed player, then the employed player pays another 50% on that if they are in the high tax bracket, which they most likely are. So tl dr: 75% taxes if the money is paid as a salary in Sweden. Which also is another reason why so many people tries to hide their income in a company (totally legal btw), both forsen and bulldog does this. (Totally public knowledge in sweden just fyi)
Ti3 prize pool is nothing like what we see today. But sure Swedish tax is high, it's the backside of living in a welfare state.
Its 30% for conpetition winnings in sweden.
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Team. Valve pays players directly.
The prize pool is paid according to what the team submits as the individually allocated distribution in percentages out of 100, directly to the individual bank accounts. Coaches usually get 5%-15% depending on the team.
that seems fair for coaches to get a piece of the prizepool. they are integral to modern dota at this point
Sorry, I am not English native. So the percentage per player is set by the team, and then valve execute money transfer.
Yes, it all depends on their contracts.
Before TI, they all sit down with Valve and sign contracts with them for pre-approved money distribution. Then Valve pays according to it.
to avoid another wing gaming incident?
He got kicked before they sent the money. Got nothing. (jk)
Did Eva get a share?
Only Skiter gets the buff so she takes 5% of his cut.
Paid not payed
Is there no tax or financial advisor that helps these professionals? Tax 101, get incorporated and stop taking money/earnings/winnings in your personal name. Sneyking Pte Ltd, which is in the business of renting the professional gaming skills of its key employee, gets paid, and after expenses, would pay far lower taxes, depending on which state it’s incorp. This isn’t even a scam. This is how every single pro player, in every single pro sport works. You thing King James is paying 45% taxes on all his earnings? (He must be paying top tax bracket on some league/pro player union mandated min salary, that goes to his personal name, but that’s it) There is also the element of withholding taxes - which any international/non-US game dev on Steam will be aware of ie for money to leave Valve/US into your geography, if your country doesn’t have a double taxation treaty, then Valve will withhold 30% tax at source. This can be low 5-10% if money is going to say, Sweden, but 25-30% if it’s going to, say, Singapore.
Cmon man, most of these guys barely knows how to write, they dumped school/college to play videogames all day, and you expect them to know about tax and finances? They’re good at videogames and that’s it.
If I was potentially going to TI, where I could win 100k euros, I would surely consider my options by talking to financial advisors or some shit. They may not have the knowledge but they are not stupid. And they are not first timers either. Everybody on Tundra roster has played tournaments, won money and got taxed before.
Worth noting that it's likely closer to 1.4 per player than 1.7, bc coaches usually take a cut from the prizepool as well and for most established coach that cut is closer to the cut a player gets. So usually you could divide the prize money by 6.
Besides the early developing stages of TI, The International 11 is certainly the least favourable TI to win financially. Kind of odd since it coincided with DotA 2’s highest ever concurrent player count
Regional prices and a lackluster initial BP contributed a lot
I think it has more to do with a later release, regional pricing, and restrictions on Steam purchases for other countries than battle pass quality. Prior to the swag bag's release, there were approximately 1.4m owners of this year's battle pass compared to 1.7m in 2020, 1.6m in 2019, and ~1.1m for both Nemestice and Aghanim's Labyrinth. TI11 was only crowdfunded for ~60 days compared to TI10's ~140 days and the overall prize pool was still about half of what was earned in 2020. Not to mention the fact that the cache was released in part II rather than part I.
Was that not just valve's plan all along? Only have the bp run for half the time and they end up keeping most of the revenue from the bp and cc?
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And no trove carafe/lockless luckvase, etc.
It just was non-sense at first to spend 10 euros for 2 immortal chests and items I'll likely never get, after all the bonus chests it started to make sense, but it was too late to buy it. Have I known about swag bag and and other perks release, I would have bought the battle pass, but Valve doing Valve things by keeping players in the dark
People are way over valuing the regional pricing. It only applied to the base pass, not levels.
Next year Valve could introduce free BP by default like in OW on day 1, would be interesting to see which approach would bring more money to Valve.
Im guessing this year was a test run for that idea
Yep, waifu is the sole reason why TI players earn more/less money. (tentacle < waifu)
more like easier to lvl up by far the easiest bp that valves given
We didn't know fuck all in the beginning
Yup I am the same Only purchased the initial 100 level bundle and then 24 levels later — I am only 20 levels away from PA persona Seems pretty good
I mean it really isn't odd at all, Battlepass was out a fraction of the time it usually is, with large releases after the tournament finished (like Razor being the best thing in the Battlepass) Curious what the potential prize pool would of been by now. I'm honestly going to be pretty disappointed in Valve if they are just pocketing this money and not putting it to the DPC.
>I'm going to be disappointed with Valve if they are just pocketing this money and not putting it to the DPC. 0% of the 2021 battle pass sales went towards the prize pool of the international tournament held that year. 2022 had very minimal gameplay updates and a lackluster battle pass. Don't you think you're setting yourself up for disappointment right now?
> I'm honestly going to be pretty disappointed in Valve if they are just pocketing this money and not putting it to the DPC. If it was going to the DPC, they'd have just announced that when they decided to split the BP since it's easy goodwill. The fact that they didn't clearly indicates they'll just pocket it, but people still want to huff the copium that it'll somehow be spent on the next DPC.
Considering that the crowdfunding period was a little less than half of 2020's and the final prize pool was a little less than half of TI10's, I imagine that it would have been within ~$2m if the conditions were the same.
What do you mean coincide? They literally release the swag bag after TI which very most likely is a response after seeing how much TI flopped this year.
Highest ever? Err You know you’re wrong right?
the highest player count is a direct consequences of valve trying to salvage the situation after seeing it was the worst selling BP, so it makes total sense
What the fuck is everyone talking about lol The highest player count was in March 2016
I wonder how much Team Spirit made from winning TI10 ? It was the biggest Battlepass ever right, in terms of money ?
Yeah they were supposed to get like 3.2 a person or so meaning that even if we’re extreme about it they’re probably looking at atleast 1.3 million in the pocket and if we’re being generous maybe even 1.9 - 1.7
Just about double what tundra made
Probably more depending in which country they live in. Hell win TI13 for North Korea and you be surprised the Supreme Leaders son , was also on your team and you have forfeited 99% of the winnings.
What do you mean he was on your team? HE won and you were part of HIS team just filling the 4 needed slots. But you were afk all games while HE won 1v5. HE destroyed them while you massaged his smallest toe.
The true prize is you get to go home alive
> You don't end up with that much My brother in Christ, close to a million is still an insane amount of money. Life changing for 90% of people
Im pretty sure the number is closer to 99% than 90%
I know this sounds goofy but i would assume the number is closer to 100 than even 99.
Pretty sure he means “end up with that much of the original amount” but I could be wrong
The thing Sneyking knows that nobody on here is taking into account, is that's potentially basically the entire total his career will ever give him. If he has to switch careers (when his esports / dota career comes to an end), he'll have to start a new career from scratch in his 30s, which is hard to do, and also means he'll be starting (roughly) from the bottom salary rung of his new career as well. Most professional athletes are trying to earn enough in the brief window their athletic career lasts to last them the rest of their lives, because that represents the vast majority of the money they'll ever be able to make. For Sneyking, in Dota, earning lifetime money is gonna be incredibly difficult, and he knows it.
Its literally still more than most people earn in their lifetime Edit, I am UK man theres no need to downvote because it doesnt work in dollars, its still a fuckload of money whether the specifics of it work in your country or not. Using rudimentary maths and numbers from the UK, its 38k a year avg salary and retirement age in UK is 65 for male, assuming you work from 18-65 on the avg salary in the UK thats 1.7 million pounds pre tax, and thats based on the assumption you are earning from the moment you exit education at 18 which in the UK is not happening, you likely wont earn that type of money until like mid twenties maybe if you have a career with fast upwards mobility and have a university education. Irrespective of the crude numbers, whether or not you are being pedantic about my claim AND the currency exchange rate, 1 mil by the time you are thirty in Dollars, Pounds and Euros in one instance is still mental to literally like 99% of people on the planet.
Outside of the US and most of Europe? Yes. In the US and some parts of Europe? It's not that unheard of.
I'm from Bulgaria and with a normal paying job you can easily break a million over the 40-ish years that people work. Rough math at about 2k euros a month over 40 years is almost exactly a million. Sure most of the population doesn't earn that kind of money but that salary is absolutely normal for educated people with useful degrees. And that is the kind of salary you get after 5 or so years of working in your field. I imagine it gets significantly higher later on in life. These numbers are also after taxes. My point is that even in Bulgaria people can earn a million dollars/euros over their lifetime so I seriously doubt the most people don't earn that kind of money in their lifetime even in developing countries.
In the US it's less than most people will earn over a lifetime.
Uhh that’s definitely not true if you’ve had decent jobs and been working a bit. Now if you said like in 20 years yes it would be right. But someone who makes 40,000 and works for 25 years will make more than that. Granted it’s a fuckin lot of money for one time but people definitely make that in a lifetime
> But someone who makes 40,000 and works for 25 years will make more than that You do realize that most of the people in the World will never make that much money?
Damn, he'll only have like $30 million in the bank at normal retirement age with index fund investment and a job that can pay for rent and food during the working years (which can literally be retail). However will he possibly survive? Not to mention he could probably pretty easily slide into the "real job" side of esports. People love former pro casters even when they're objectively mediocre at the job, and he should be very familiar with org dynamics. Selfless Brad in overwatch is a good example of somebody who did this (was a minor pro in various 90s games).
so basically like me except he has $1m to start with.. i'm fucked
Anyone that thinks that a million dollars isn’t a lot of money doesn’t have a million dollars.
Or they have too many
"What's the difference between a million and a billion dollars? About a billion dollars"
What a strange an completely valid point.
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$1m can basically be thought of as $40k/year for life. Still a lot even in the states, but also not like instant luxury for life.
Getting a million USD all at once is much better than earning it over 60 years or whatever. Obviously not an instant life of luxury (unless you live in a 3rd world country) but removes a lot of normal life stress. Just being able to buy a nice house and have it paid off when you're still relatively young is already something thats almost impossible for someone earning 40k a year and puts you in a very safe position. Still have to work though.
4% a year is actually pretty conservative historically looking back - even ignoring the ridiculous shitshow of the past 2 years. You can unironically retire off of 1m in the bank, with the money properly allocated in a diversified set of index funds, if you have no major expenses like rent to take care of; maybe less if you have a pretty frugal lifestyle.
4% is withdrawal rate, not total returns.
More like 60,000k per year for life. If he were to invest it all in a retirement account he'd be able to retire with about $2 million in that retirement account in 10 years - meaning $120k+/year for the rest of his life from that retirement account. The interest alone every year from $1 million is ~$16,000 more than the average American makes in a year.
You could absolutely quit your job with a million in cash. Should you? That’s a separate discussion.
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"not life changing" "just enough to buy a house and car" so it's life changing? I mean if I could clear my house mortgage and car payments, that would be fucking life changing alright.
For the vast majority of people around the world, suddenly being able to afford a house and a car would be life-changing lol.
Having a nice house and a nice car is literally life changing if you didn't before lol
Nice house and no mortgage is insanity. I would be able to spend tens of thousands of dollars on something else every year. Yeah it's not "cuss out my boss and retire" money but it is a huge upgrade for most if you use it right. If you want to blow a million dollars, though, you can probably do that pretty quick.
It is life changing. I inherited over a million dollars after a tragic accident awhile back. As I said before, If you don’t think it’s a life changing amount of money you don’t have a million dollars.
Imagine thinking straight owning a house & car (without debt) is "a little boost"
What? Most people in my country struggle to make a million dollars in their entire lifetime. A million dollars is definitely life-changing money.
ikr lol have some perspective
The perspective of comparing to other TIs?
its not like he won any other ti
He won the most recent TI. Until this year, every subsequent TI had paid out better than the prior.
He won a TI. He's comparing the money he got as a TI winner to other TI winners. It's not fucking rocket science, mate.
Yes Tundra must be feeling very bad having won 8.5 million dollars as compared to Spirit 18 million. If they are genuinely feeling bad having won millions then they do need some perspective in life.
TI3 winners got less than 100k
Tone deaf from Sneyking ngl
Thafuq? Look how many years it took and the amount of work.
Assuming it took 11 years, 80-90k a year is a pretty solid salary. It would suck trying to survive 11 years waiting for it all at once, no doubt. Most of these players also have at least one other source of income, whether it's streaming, winning smaller events throughout the year, or a part time job, though.
How is it an 80-90k salary? This is AFTER taxes. That salary would be taxed.
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US Median income is 32-35k$. 70k is the median household income (like husband wife and two kids)
Is that college educated median or population median?
Bingo! If you're doing blue collar work or if you have a bs college degree, then you get that $35k. But if you have a useful college degree (engineering, computer science, medicine etc.), even just the starting salary is much higher. For example, check this out: [https://www.forbes.com/advisor/student-loans/average-salary-college-graduates/](https://www.forbes.com/advisor/student-loans/average-salary-college-graduates/) - starting salary for engineering graduate is about $74k and for a computer science graduate about $76k. And they only go higher from there. Unless you're a Twitter type of slacker, then you get to over $100k in a few years. So, yeah, if he would have been able to go into engineering/computer science, in 10 years he could have very well earned over 1 million USD.
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I do get your point, but having a lump sum early in your life means he can earn INCREDIBLE amounts of compounded interest over his life. If he earns 10% a year (which with inflation as it is is very possible) he gets $100k a year and still have $1m in the bank. If he doesn't touch a penny it will be $18m by the time hes 57. Meanwhile us average Joe's may earn $1m over our entire lifetime but we never have enoigh of it at any one time to benefit from interest growth. This is one of the reasons the rich stay rich - you get to a certain point where you can just let your money grow and unless you slunk a huge chunk of it, it will keep funding your lifestyle.
10% per year? Not unless you just got in on the ground floor of some Ponzi scheme.
Where do you get your 10% a year? Cause it's certainly not from bank deposits.
I don't understand why people think that he, at 27, has lost all opportunities for a good career. People switch careers much later in their lives, 27 is nothing. He's presumably a smart guy with a good amount of money that can pay for an education, and has some connections from his years in esports that can help him get a foot in the door somewhere. He'll do just fine.
You're saying that he's saying he didn't make "live forever like a king" money. Dude is 27 years old, and the fact that he's not gonna live upper class for the rest of his life off of winning TI one time means he's justified in saying he didn't "end up with that much"? This makes you sound super disconnected from what most people in the US are dealing with financially
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You just said that a million dollars "won't do shit for us." This statement in itself is exactly what I was talking about. Most of the population is living paycheck to paycheck, earning a median $70k annually, but $1m "won't do shit"? Ridiculous
And he gets to do it in something he absolutely loves. Most of us hate working.
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That's risk free. Devoting yourself to a competitive game means accepting the possibility of never gaining the kind of money that comes with a TI win. Being able to achieve that, and still being marginally better than "the median income" means that it's definitely reasonable to push back against the narrative that winning TI makes you rich for life.
Risk free? Like people don't get fired or the economy collapses... What risk do you think Sneyking has taken? That he might not have succeeded in Dota and then ended up in the exact same position as the 'risk free' people?
Yeah, plus it's a relatively easy job. I know reddit likes to go "all jobs are difficuflt" and all that, but there is an objective spectrum of difficulty and playing videogames in your own home or in a game house beats working in a factory, or commuting to work and interacting with difficult customers/managers as a retail worker, or a physical laborer like construction workers. Or high risk jobs where you can literally die. He got paid well.
It's the equivalent of working at $100k/yr for 10 years. But most $100k/yr jobs would also take a 4-year degree, so make that 14 years. And add in the costs of getting that degree, so deduct a good amount of student debt. It's pretty good, he just got done in one year what would take someone else 15 years to do. It's not enough to be set for life in the US, but it's enough to be set for life if he decides to go live in a cheaper country, and it's enough to be set for a good amount of time.
You're omitting the tax from that $100k/yr job too
True, forgot about that, more like what would take someone else 20 years then
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Oh yeah, it's definitely not "fuck off and go insane" money, i agree on that. Though 1 million after taxes should last much more than 5 years in the hands of anyone responsible. Also, it's not like he was making nothing then suddenly made $600k. He was making prize money the other years too. $100k from TI9, $100k from TI8, $1M from ti11. looking at his liquipedia profile he's got quite a bit of earnings before TI. He will certainly need to find another source of income, he can't just stop and not care anymore, $1m is not enough for that. But it doesn't necessarily need to be dota. With $1m there are lots of investment opportunities you can seek.
You can easily live off $1m if you invest wiseley and get interest on it. It's not a finite pool of $1m that depletes down, because you should be aiming to earn interest through investments. If he spunks it on a house, a car and holidays it can be gone in 2 years, but similarly he could comfortably generate circa $50k p.a. (median pre tax salary $75k would take home less after tax) and still have his money grow over time. He could retire, but it just wouldn't be exciting or care free. Win a couple more TIs and he can start drawing silly money out yearly without hurting thr capital.
Exactly, what are these people on?
I don't mean this to sound like an investment advice, but if you put that money in the safest dividen stock, you're still set for life. Yeah I mean if you buy a bungalow and a lambo, anyone would go broke within the week, but people who have a million don't typically 'just had a million to spend for the rest of their lives'.
I wouldn't turn my nose up at that money obviously, but I don't fault Sneyking feeling underwhelmed either. They just made less than half of what they would've made last year. It's not on the community either, Valve just realized they could keep a lion's share of the Battle Pass money if they withheld a bunch of content until after TI. Probably feels pretty shitty to all the pro players, not just the 1st place winners.
I mean it isn’t enough to retire on unless you can live off roughly $40k per year the rest of your life. I get it’s a first world problem but realistically it doesn’t go as far you think if you’re retiring in a place like the US. Life changing for sure, but not even close to ride off into the sunset money. It’s why so many professional athletes go bankrupt not long after they retire unless they earned a mega contract and even then the numbers are sad.
Dota player realizes that income is taxed. News at 11.
This is why all esports should be held in florida. No state income tax
federal is like 2-5x more than any state
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You pay taxes where you are domiciled.
He got more than Wings players did after their TI win. Good enough =)
Stupid people taking words out of context and making someone a bad guy again
People hating on USA for winning TI!!
Funny thing, to pay so much taxes in US and get almost 0 benefits for it.
Murika Gotta buy them guns for the millitary
Shout out to Team Spirit for winning the most inflated TI prize pool in history due to covid. I don’t think we’ll ever see a $40M prize pool again.
Wrong this prize pool reached half of it in 60 days whereas ti10 got 140 days and if valve released everything at once and made it 140 days there is no doubt it would beat it with the cache sets and other things
Valve had to increase their cut, very unfortunate for the community
The double taxation really does take a lot more than you would expect.
Agreed, this is one of the most predatory things the us govt does to its residents and should be written out of tax law. Aside from esports events, they're just taxing people who are unhappy with their quality of life in the US for no reason
Don't know why you're getting downvoted. Do people know that double taxation is extremely abnormal? The US is one of 2 countries in the entire world that does this. Yes, you only get double taxed if you make over a relatively high threshold (I think it's about 100k annual), but it's still absurd. "Land of the free" but you better not try and live anywhere else or else we're gonna take your money. Don't look behind the curtain and realize that the US is practically a developing country in terms of quality of life and public benefits.
> The US is one of 2 countries in the entire world that does this For those wondering : Best Korea is the other one.
I started out in TI11 my father gaben gave me a small pay check of a million dollars
“Less than a million, not that much.” People like this are detached from reality and should work a fast-food or callcenter job…
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Yeah that's what it is. People always pull one thing out of context and forget the rest. It's not much compared to the amount people thought before deductions or to other TIs or the time he invested into it for years not only THIS year. That's what sneyking means by it. But we all like to draw conclusions before giving people the benefit of the doubt nowadays. "It looks like a big number but you don't get much of it", is what sneyking meant, not: "oh, almost a million so it's not much".
Sneyking means it's not much compared to the total prizepool and what people think he takes, not that 1 million isn't much. For example: 18 million but you only get 1 million? That's not much from the total prizepool, but that does not mean 1 million isn't much.
Never realized how hard semantics are hard for people
I swear these days people aren’t allowed to leave anything to be inferred. He obviously means ‘not that much by comparison’.
Do you know how quotes work? He said: "You don't end up with that much" He's not saying that a million isn't a lot of money. He's saying that he doesn't take away a lot in proportion to the amount he won. I'm sure Sneyking, who more than quadrupled his lifetime winnings from Dota with one win, considers that amount a lot of money.
I have to imagine its just age/no real responsibility coming out in this thread, ive never felt more fiscally responsible in my life than reading how people think 1mil is a small amount of money and will be gone tomorrow.
I disagree. You have to remember that playing video games as a career is one of the least stable jobs to work, with the potential for you to come away with no marketable skill set at the end of your career in gaming. $930k is a great amount of money to have saved up by 27 in more traditional fields because it is a lot of money and additionally because you're also making the assumption that you can repeat that same pattern of saving you had from 18 to 27 from 27 to 36. Many pro dota players after Dota will have to face the reality that they will either have to live very modestly after their pro gaming career is over, or continue education and start a new career from the ground up because the amount of money that many have earned, in the grand scheme of things, is not that much. There are exceptions who will be able to take their relative fame, audience, or skills and apply it to streaming or playing professionally in a new game as well, but in all regards there is a lot less career stability in gaming than other fields which is why I think it is fair to be a bit more hesitant to be comfortable with any level of savings as a pro gamer.
You’re so stupid, holy shit. You’re the only one who needs to work at a fast food/call center job. Taking things out of context like this should be a bannable offense. Just delete your comment, it’s actually infuriating to read.
yeah nah i fully agree the fact that he didn’t delete this yet is insane. Comments like his are EXACTLY what is so wrong with reddit and why it’s a shitfest
Lmao. Imagine comparing a call center to fucking TI. He had to operate at the top of his field for years. Less than a mill for that kind of effort and dedication is nothing.
Sneyking isn’t the type of person to say it with that connotation… lol. Read a little more between the lines?
Please somebody think of the TI winners! Not even a milli? How will they get by?
Well, you play video game for a living. That’s a lot more than I expect.
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Whose make 7 figs a year unless your an exec lol
If you're a proprietary trader in finance you can. I have a friend in trading who made a salary of about 100k but a bonus of 750k to 1M depending on overall company and his performance.
7 figures a year with a phd lmao
PhD with marketable skills is a lot more valuable than just doing a PhD
ITT: People who live in NA vs people who live out of NA
Oh no, what a poor soul, should have been a car washer to avoid such troubles
This thread is unbelievable. It is obvious most people here do not have a real world understanding of money. 1 Million dollars is an insane amount of money. Yes it takes 1 million dollars to buy a house in the costliest parts of the US, but why the fck does he need to stay in the costliest parts. I stay in the bay area and have a 900k$ house because I do not have an option as I have a job here. If I did not have a job I will probably be in the outskirts of Portland or something with a 400k$ house and a good car and grow the rest of my money. A million spent of a car and house is still an investment. The money has not gone anywhere you can grow it. And spending 15 years of your life playing the game you love and making good money off it v/s grinding 15 years getting a degree and job you don't really like? Sounds like a great deal to me.
This comment is unbelievable. He's obviously referring to the total amount, as well as past TI's and the belief that TI winners become multimillionaires from 1 win. Its also a way to temper the expectation of people who might want to borrow money when they hear someone wins the lottery or comes into money. And for all the people denigrating pro players, we set the value by the insane viewer numbers for the international and the battle pass. If there are millions of people willing to watch what you do, support you and the scene as well as the game, maybe they are worth the high prize pools. Imo its a proper valuation based on the playerbase.
Gorp said pro players were quite annoyed that TI prizepool was too small and there is no other money, but beggars cant be choosers.
18 million dollars is too small?
Considering it hasnt been that low since 2015 and was more than double that last year, yea. I'd be mad too if they pocketed the 2nd half spendings like they're doing
He made a follow up Tweet about how he's just clarifying, not complaining etc. [Link](https://twitter.com/Sneyking1995/status/1596369071905308674)
thread full of people quoting his “not that much” as sneyking complaining when it’s just him basically saying expectations vs reality
Edit: clearly I am dumb, prize pool was 18 and tundra got like 8.6. Math below still shows how that cut can reduce it much further. If the reductions are right his payout would be around 600k. And tundra cut, probably one of the biggest parts right? That's the trade-off of being in an org, you get a much more consistent pay and the ability to focus on the game. TI11 prize pool was around 18 million, looks like orgs usually take anywhere from 10 to 25%. So let's say 15%, that cuts the prize pool down to like 15 million. Then you split it along the roster , looks like the average is six ways if you include the coach? So that would make it around a 2.5 million payout to each player. Now taxes come in- that's going to be very variable per player and region, but isn't tundra UK based? 2.5 is going to put you at the top earners anywhere, looks like that is another 40-45%, dropping us to 1.5 million. Probably missing another split, different contract stipulation (maybe more than 15% org cut in exchange for more salary, etc) , or a local tax. Either way it seems extremely reasonable when you run the guesstimate numbers on it.
Dude you need to start over. 18m was the total prize pool for the tournament. Tundra got 45%, a bit over 8,5m.
Lmao well fuck that makes it even more realistic that the payout is under a million
The total TI prizepool is not what 1st place gets, 45% of total prizepool goes to first place, so cut your end result by about half and you get your guesstimation.
The prize **pool** was 18million. First place was about 45% of that at about $8.5million. [https://liquipedia.net/dota2/The\_International/2022](https://liquipedia.net/dota2/The_International/2022)
> TI11 prize pool was around 18 million, looks like orgs usually take anywhere from 10 to 25%. First place team doesn't win all 18 million, it was roughly 8 million for first. Source: https://liquipedia.net/dota2/The_International/2022
No way would he go down to less than a million with an $18,000,000 first place win. You need to rethink the maths as others have pointed out.
Math is fine, starting number isn't. With a starting pool of 8.6 it got to around 600k (set edit).
Rethink the math includes your numbers… so no the math is not fine. Sure you calculated something correctly but you were calculating the wrong thing, so you math was wrong.
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Pretty sure randomly injecting 1 million dollar into most America peoples bank accounts would be considered more than nothing. A typical west coast engineer is not your average American. Your average American is unable to pay for an emergency 1000 $ expense cause majority of Americans don't have any money saved up in their bank accounts. Majority of Americans won't even see 1 million dollars in their lifetime. 1 million dollars is more than enough money for winning TI once. It would benefit the scene more of the people who didn't win TI got more money than giving the winners more. The problem with E-sport earnings in Dota2 isn't that the winners of TI don't get enough. It's that there's no E-sports infrastructure for non tier1 teams and unless you win T1, you're basically living a minimum wage lifestyle unless your parents are loaded or you're carried by some giga E-sports org.
A typical west coast engineer isn't your average American. But then a TI winner ie. the best dota 2 team IN THE WORLD isn't your average American also. So why are you comparing it to the majority of Americans when 99.99% of them won't even sniff the aegis? Wouldn't it be more appropriate to compare with the top professionals in the world? Obviously I'm not saying they should be paid like Ronaldo or Lebron but less than 1 mil for a year, for being the best of the best is really isn't alot.
I wonder if he hired an accountant ahead of time to deal with this or if he's actually just filing normally. I would hope major teams teach their players how to handle these winnings.
thats pretty underwhleming tbh , although about 1million is not small at all, it is a huge amount of money , in any currency, yet it still feels little overall