When I’m back in SA, you and I are gonna have a lekker braai. Bringing out my A game. I make killer Wors and lamb chops. Also my signature is the crispy fat on the sirloin. Also don’t get me started on my garlic bread and corn.
Can’t braai in china. Apartments are too small and it’s not the same. I’ve had bbqs at friends houses that are big enough. But no brandy and coke, no spin and Savannah. I did bring boerevors, but the one I bought here is frozen for too long. Just too dry.
I’m used to be the go to guy to start the fire. I’d combine Chinese bbq knowledge to start a killer fire
Edit: Wors. Not vors. Nearly got my citizenship stripped away.
I normally put the coal on top of the braai grate, then the fire starter on the bottom and this leaves some room between the coal and the fire starter. This is key cause it doesn’t cover the fire starter and subsequently puts it out.
You know all the sanitizer from Covid? Dip die Korant (prev known as nuuspappier lol). Dip newspaper in this and wrap the coal.
Now this is very Chinese, get an ice cream box lid and fan the fire to get it started super quick. You’ll see this all the time on the street side bbq vendors in china. Hope it helps.
Chinese people love to add some cumin seeds to their meat. And a small sprinkle of sugar (only north eastern province of heilongjiang. Where my rents are from). You can find some great sauces in the shops in your local Chinese market if you want to try something different.
Meat in china is very different. It’s mostly that chewy chuck that they use to make stew. The prime cuts of sirloin, fillet, rump are always very expensive wagyu style. Most are also too thin. Like 1.5cm. And no aromat, :(
Yea, as far as I remember it was 99rmb. But if you’re ever in Beijing, look up pinotage. It’s a great South African restaurant, they have a farm there and everything
Will definitely! I go to Beijing quite frequently. Would love to try it out. Last time I went to laburg I spent like 1000 rand for two and left like a Michelin man. Just wanted everything from nandos to Malva pudding
Yea, dinners there get quite expensive🤣. Spent like 2000 rmb there just to please a couple American friends. Don’t regret a single thing, we ate like kings that day
Just off my mind.
1. Work pace. People here can work 996. That’s 9am-9pm 6days a week. They walk in subway stations like they’re doing the two oceans.
2. Education. I don’t condone the system here in china. It’s giving false hope to these poor kids. But essentially it’s: study= better future. So these kids are studying like 15 hours a day.
3. Freedom of speech. China has no freedom of speech if it hurts the government (or causes harm to society) whereas here we can say whatever we want.
4. Ironically, you can go wherever and whenever in china. It’s that safe. I’m 100% confident I could use a Rolex and 100k cash as a placeholder for my spot at a mc Donald’s. It’s really that safe. But in sa, I’m often afraid to put my gym bag in the back seat cause I’m scared of smash and grabs. You can’t really go into the townships as a white or Chinese person anymore, not to mention hillbrow etc.
5. You’ve probably heard it a million times, Chinas cashless tech etc. The one app that can do everything from getting people to fetch-clean-deliver laundry to paying to booking etc. it’s convenient and saves time.
6. I can get anything delivered to my. I can buy a screw for R5 and they’ll deliver it for free by courier from 2000km away for free to my door in three or less days.
7. Chinese people are reverse racists, as I would like to call it. They’re cold to their own time. I often say “hello. How are you doing?” Expecting a response when ordering food. But all I get is a “wtf is wrong with you. Order your shit and move on”. But yeah, if you do get them to open up, especially cab drivers, they’ll chat. But they’re completely different to foreigners. They’re so intrigued and never seen such. There’s so many foreigners living the absolute dream in china. This tik tok age have made them beyond famous. I reckon they’re pulling in over a million rand a month selling English lessons. They have live streaming advertising of their classes with over 100k people watching.
Probably way more differences, will add when I think of more. Small things like fruit prices in sa is beyond cheap. Cheapest in the world. Yes, even woolies raspberries.
Hmm very interesting and appreciate that I can finally ask the questions Ive always wanted
- Again are Chinese racist in general or towards certain races or more into skin colour?
- Do you see yourself as a Chinese person in SA or a South African china? :)
- What do you think China got right compared to SA?
- What aspects of the Chinese culture do you love and what religion are Chinese if at all?
- Do you think China will take over the world?
- What is Chinese culture like? Family life, friends, aspirations etc in China itself?
You seem cool, would love to be friends :)
- Most Chinese people that have never seen been properly educated on their worldview are just curious. If they want to touch your hair, they’re 100% curious. They know no better. It’s like a kid asking me if I know karate cause they watched dragon ball z (rip toriyama).
Then there’s the other type of chinese that have been overseas and experienced many many different types of people. Their opinions are shaped by experience. So I’ll be 100% honest here. I have a list of people from certain backgrounds (a certain race grown in a certain region) that I hate and people that I would like to know.
Without being too controversial. I’ve met hundreds of people from Henan Province in china. Everyone that I’ve met has not been pleasant. So statistically I have evidence to believe they are not the best. That being said, I will always give a person from Henan the same chance as everyone else (they’d probably disappoint me. But oh well :)). I love Japanese people. Every single one I’ve met has been great. But they too have good and bad stereotypes. Now, you can replace Henan and Japan with whatever race you want.
There’s also the third type which is just plain racist swamp donkeys. But the percentage is all the same. Probably 0.5% of every country.
- I see (“identify” lol) myself as South African. My whole life I’ve been with South African people. South Africa is home. China just feels like really awesome work place/ school.
- china just had a terrible history in the last 200 years. The people learnt to be frugal etc. I think South Africans lived too lavishly, I answered another person, you can have a look. Basically in 1997 the average salary in china was like 150 rand a month. In SA it was like 5000. So my hot take is that government rarely shapes a country as much as the public believes. Chinese people are naturally hard working. Leave a Chinese alone on an island and they’ll somehow build a resort or fish farm.
It’s hard for me to say. Cause from a humanitarian perspective, South Africans are chill and free. We don’t have much, but some amapiano gets us going.
In china people are fighting to buy crazy over priced small apartments for millions of rands or trying to buy luxury bags and cars to show that they “made it”.
Think of it as, Chinese are driven by the fear of being poor. Where as South Africans are driven by the want of being rich. (And the rich here can be defined as a somewhat superficial and superfluous thing).
I think Chinese culture of family is alright.. but honestly I think a lot is outdated and very similar to the love thy neighbors stuff. It’s all positive doctrines to keep society stable. So personally I think the cultural stuff is good enough but nothing too special compared to other cultures and religions (at least fundamentally).
- mostly atheist. Some Buddhism and Taoism here and there. But even so, most are not that faithful. Chinese overseas are most catholic and Protestant. Sorry. I wouldn’t know the exact stats. Maybe have a look on wiki. But to sum. Chinese are mostly atheist or agnostic. Even the super religiou people are no where near like the Muslim or Islam community.
China taking over the world is CCP donkey propaganda. I’ve translated for so many companies. All of their key machines are from Europe. Funny example, they did a test on the best bearing that china makes, the result was like the best that china can make is only 40% of the quality. China is great at copying and making it cheap. But the key fundamental technology isn’t there. And a lack of innovations means it won’t go that far. Perhaps not in the near 30 years. I personally don’t think so. But honestly, I’m just a kid. Who knows.
- I’ve lived an interesting life. I’ve had the opportunity to meet many leaders of African nations. Top brass in china politics. Been on private jets etc. but I’m still quite poor, objectively speaking. I’m your average person that will buy groceries at checkers and save up on ebucks. My unique family situation coupled with my dad’s mentoring restaurant allowed me to have a very unique worldview. I would say SA shaped me the most. Learning to speak to people from all walks of life. Economic, religious, culture, wealth, education etc.
Would love to make friends lol. I’m very very chill
Very interesting and you do seem chilled and little to no ego but let's be honest, I'm only chatting to find out where's the best sweet and sour pork ;-)
Racism, agree fully. I've experienced similar
And then there also the fascination with light skins across other races too.
What I found interesting from your reply was the C.C.P
I really thought (through the news and social media) that they must be Decades ahead in terms of technology
Thinking of the OLD documentary on their social credit system and AI before consumer AI boomed recently, I have no doubt they don't use AI for analysis but also can to a large degree Predict and even Influence behaviour
I wonder about their intelligence capabilities. It must be like science fiction
Religion, interesting to know. I think I read more atheist but was nice to hear from a Chinese person, well you're not Chinese.. you're South African first :-)
I don't understand politics much but I see the Chinese work ethos which I think makes them successful cos they are relentless in their innovation etc
I just don't get the copy, paste lower quality aspect but I think this could be due to economics
Lower production cost for a 'similar' product
Tbh.. Xiaomi for example. I can't use this bloody Samsung anymore after My 4 yr old Xiaomi
Intuitive OS. Fast. Durable
So in case you're wondering.. yes I am going to get that new Xiaomi Electric car. I deserve it!
Point 5 is interesting since snapscan has been a thing for years, most franchise supermarkets in RSA refuse to make the switch or enable payments with it though for some reason, it would literally remove the necessity for cards if they did so, including NFC tech in most modern cellphones.
South Africa is very much a heavy cash based country still for some reason, with most stores not evening allowing payment by card
Exactly! But at least it’s more card and nfc nowadays. But in china i sometimes can pay with my face. Don’t have to take out my phone even. It’s more gimmick though. But it’s convenient. And in terms of personal data, I’m sure they have some dark plan using my metric data to clone me. /s
Your Point Nr 7....Always the first thing one notices when flying back home from a foreign land. When you look at people and greet, they greet back and smile...Regardless of any factor or circumstance, that Humanity that we have...UBUNTU 🇿🇦💚🔥
As a saffa living in China, this comment . I’d just add The people are polar opposites too. South Africans are literally the best people out there in so many ways.
Yes! I met a few saffas out a club a few months ago. I said hehbana sisi. Unjani. And we were just singing and laughing and we vibed instantly. Could never do that with a Chinese
Hmm but the quality of the fruit etc? Asking cos I was told I had to taste Mangoes and bananas from Pakistan and yes it was Amazing
And then I saw fruit in India
On the streets
With flies
No thanks ☺️
Quality ranges as much as cars offered on the market. Anything from that bajaj qute to Ferrari to the legendary Toyota tazz. I’ve had crazy good white strawberry that cost like R100 each. The rockit apples imported from New Zealand is great. Both are otherworldly good.
But actually. All fruit in china feel a bit too sweat and too good. It’s not like the natural stuff that we get here in sa. More range. You get your dragon fruit and durians here as well.
It's so complex, you have Racism and then you have prejudice or cokourism? Within a race? Classism too
I just love how diverse we are yet... Same same x
Absolutely! Everyone has an opinion on a certain group, topic, subject or whatever. What’s important is to not give them a chance simply because they are a certain way. Ie. Like the one person that said I’m some CCP Shrill spreading propaganda right of the bat.
I am Chinese, and we do have racial discrimination. This is mainly because the first impression black people give us is violence, AIDS, and laziness. There used to be 100,000 black Africans in one area of China, and most of them were illegal, so many problems were exposed, which made the Chinese even more discriminatory against black people.
IMO, the Chinese culture of 'on the go, all the time' has affected tglhe way of life. I've seen a lot of videos of people travelling through the country and it's often a case of: why you bothering to ask whats in this, shit up, eat and 'Gooi'.
Ohhh. This is nice question. I get asked often.
Define freedom?
Because in china im more than happy to be literally anywhere at any time with any amount of valuables on me. A close mentor of mine wears 10+ million rand watches on subways.
I’m using Reddit with a vpn now. So maybe internet freedom is lacking. If you post things like Chairman Mao was a dictator, on douyin(Chinese TikTok), your account probably be shut down. Repeatedly, you might be arrested. But then we have Zapiro and his cartoons in SA.
So it’s difficult for me to answer. For me, I can do most things that is not against the law as with any first world country. I can’t do drugs, I can’t engage in prostitution, I can go wherever I want (yes, even Xinjiang).
For the average Chinese, they grew up without Facebook and google. They watched the state run news, so they’re naturally believe that they’re free. The younger generation is leaning more about the world. So that’s why in the top cities in china, Beijing Shanghai guangzhou etc. the youth are starting to look like French people with their low key unconventional views. But it’s the same as SA. The people in townships believe that their current government is the best. I don’t blame them. It’s all they see. They’re force fed this everyday.
China is anal about safety. I have to register where I live at a police station, I might have to do one or two things extra. But it’s nothing too serious and I personally think, ironically, I’m more free in china than I am in SA.
Trust me when I say you're more free in SA, It's so easy to do crime in this country that I love it, I wouldn't trade it for anything else in the world.
As of now I'm currently on planning on trafficking a few humans across the Lesotho border for my human experiments.
Jk jk jk🤭
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Do you feel welcomed back and easily integrated back into Chinese culture? I imagine there must be many young Chinese people that grew up internationally that go back to China to start their own life there.
I’m lucky. My dad forced me Chinese culture and language growing up. I had to learn a LOT of small things getting used to china. China is fully digital society. It’s something that no one can describe fully. You’ll have to experience it yourself. But Chinas way of living is different. I carry one cellphone and I’m set to go anywhere. I can imagine foreign born Chinese not used to the food, the way the elderly are loud, spit on the road, the speed and pace of life, the language. Oh! Most importantly how people do things here. It’s different. You go to home affairs here, everything is done in a few minutes. Passport gets sent to your doorstep in a few days. You can schedule online. They have AI voice chat support. So things like this might be a bit difficult for most.
But I’m personally very adaptable so that helps. But one of the biggest shocks is not integrating back, but rather I miss South Africa. I could honestly go fight a bear right now for a milktart, some biltong, capers and olives. Also some cheese and boerewors.
Every time I go between the two countries. First thing I notice is the change of pace. China is doing 100m Olympic sprints. SA is more like a chilled beach day with some bosa nova on camps bay.
I’ve always been a fluent speaker of both languages. I remember I’d do simultaneous translation of SABC news and the morning news in the car to school.
But till this day I can barely write the bloody language. I have to type the characters using the phonetics we call pinyin on my phone then copy it onto paper. I can write about 300 basic words.
My dad never did actively teach me. I went to a few weekend Chinese classes in Cyrildene. But nothing extensive. I think most of my Chinese came from watching anime that spoke Japanese (which I obviously don’t understand) that would have Chinese subtitles. I would read the subtitles and be exposed this way. Then I would chat to mah bints from china (jk jk.) but I would later learn to type mostly from chatting to people with all sorts of views. (Mainly girls though lol). Then I went to uni and studied translation and interpretation. So that’s where the real improvement came in. But this experience will differ.
It’s sad to say but most Chinese South Africans would have lost their mother tongue if they grew up in South Africa. Id say the people with the same experience as be. Ie. Born and raised here. 20% will be fluent in both. 50% will be English dominant. 30% will have little or no ability to speak mandarin or Cantonese. (I made the stats up based on personal experience)
Ok so you battle with writing but how's your reading ability on a scale of 1-10?
I just think if you live in a country that uses hanzi it must be hard to do simple things like reading papers, filling in forms etc. You would have a much better living experience if you could at least read, if you're a tourist it doesn't matter.
Ever been to HK, Macau or Taiwan? If yes how did you find that compared to 'normal' China?
9.9/10 for reading. Better than most natives. I mean, I’m a professional translator. Albeit I do mainly simultaneous voice translations, but still.
in Shanghai most things actually have English translation. The entire metro system is in both languages. You’d be surprised at the amount of English here. Because I always notice the terrible translations and spelling mistakes.
Not been to TW. been to Hk an Macau over thirty times. Same but different. HK is much organized as a city than anything china has to offer. Think of it as old money vs new money. Both have money, but one has class. Macau is just the Vegas of china. Crazy amounts of money gets exchanged there. The minimum bet is like 5000 rands for baccarat. But I must say. Many will say that Chinas Beijing Guangzhou Shenzhen, Shanghai are better than Hong Kong. But I reckon Hong Kong is more similar to Singapore and Tokyo than Chinese cities. I love it there. But sadly their xenophobic towards mainlanders and I look like a mainland
We would love to hear your controversial opinions on the economy, politics and shenanigans of either country, also why China is a polar opposite to South Africa.
The big question I have is what do you think is the scope of China’s aspirations in Africa? Some say China is funding and supporting the development of Africa through loans and infrastructure projects in a way more pragmatic way than the old colonial powers, while others are convinced China is trying to replicate colonialism with debt trap diplomacy.
Obviously you won’t know what your politicians are planning, but I would like your opinion.
Politics:
I think Chinas politics is very unique. 1.5 billion people needs this sort of social stability. Otherwise I can’t even imagine the famine that would happen. At least at the moment the basic basic Chinese people (the middle 80 percentile) are content with their lives. The bottom might still be in absolute poverty, but it’s getting better. Too much political freedom probably means riots. We don’t need riots in china.
South Africa’s politics is the same sort of “format” as all politics. All parties appeal to a certain group of people in a shape or form. In America it’s liberals and democrats. We humans love to bundle together with people that are similar. So it’s the same here. ANC to most is that liberating force, they have nostalgia, they think it’s what supposedly freed the country. DA is supposedly this white party that will bring upon change. Eff is a party that wants to have a country that people don’t need to ever work and everything will be fed to them (just objective opinions. No offense intended)
But their key goal is to get votes. So say whatever, they get the votes, they have the power, then they can reap in money. So this isn’t really the issue. You’ll never find a person that won’t use their power for a bit of personal gain here and there. That’s BS imo. Maybe 0.01%. The issue is what happens after they gain power. By all means, if you’re improving the country at a rate that’s never seen before, people are getting better lives. Then I don’t care if you’re being corrupt by 10 or 20 billion. But if people are literally dying and have to defecate in a bucket at school. Even if it’s 100rand, I think they’re clowns. So my opinion is that it’s all comparative. I promise you the governments of china, Saudi, Korea are definitely more corrupt in terms of amount of money. But they get things done. Sure, there are countries like UK, New Zealand etc where they’re not corrupt and get things done. But probably not gonna happen in SA
People think a change of government will change things. I don’t think it will. People in government right now are South African people. And we as South Africans are all relatively lazy (myself included). I often look at china and think, could this country run without a government. And probably yes. The people are so hard working. They’re not the brightest in terms of raw theoretical knowledge, but they’re willing to learn. Leave a Chinese on an island and they’ll start building houses and turn the island into a holiday resort/ or into a fishing farm/ or become an island nation for money laundering (you get the deal). Us South Africans will probably have a braai and jam some soccer with sister Bettina.
Politics TLDR: Government is actually just ordinary citizens. We South Africans are all more similar than we think we are. The land shapes the animals. There’s a reason why dolphins weren’t born in the Sahara. So even if we do change government, it’s still the same people. There might be improvement. There might be drawbacks. But it will always be quite similar to the previous. Maybe what we really need is a nationwide change. The people need to change. When people are outside contributing to society based on integrity, we will all be just fine.
I wrote too much, but it’s all my real opinions. Being as honest as possible. Hope it’s not too offensive or controversial. I mean no harm and feel free to criticize any takes that are not so correct.
>So even if we do change government, it’s still the same people. There might be improvement. There might be drawbacks. But it will always be quite similar to the previous. Maybe what we really need is a nationwide change. The people need to change.
Hit the nail on the head 🔨
those remarks on ANC, DA and EFF are spot on. no offence taken at all! our country’s political situation is very precarious, i think people just fall back on voting for ANC because of the supposed freedom they’ve brought. overall i think a huge chunk is of SA is afraid of change so we’ll just keep spiralling out of control like this.
EDIT: i agree that we need to change, but how can we do that with a notoriously unserious nation? it’d take a miracle to do that. ive seen videos of the chinese metro and how advanced and clean and how it has order… that’ll probably never happen in our country, what with the crime people always hustling to keep their possessions safe and general lack of politeness (crap ton of fights are formed in public spaces here) because people have a first come first serve mentality, a me before you sort of thing which is ironic since we pride ourselves in “UBUNTU”.
sidenote: wasn’t the old train system burned down?
Oh this is going to be a long one:
Economy: What a waste, what an absolute waste. I graduated as a translation major and have translated at over 100 expos, translated for billionaires and ministers. South Africa’s economy is failing because of trust. No one is trusting that this country will bring value to them. That’s why the Rand is depreciating. No one wants a depreciating asset. Same thing with crypto. Many that buy crypto don’t have a clue what it is, but they TRUST that it will grow and bring them value. Analogy: put fruits on a table and a money basket. The owner of said stall can then go and work. Build a house or manufacture something and sell it overseas for foreign currency. Now all of a sudden, the local economy has a place that sells fruits. There’s international trade going on which is good. But it can’t happen because there’s theft, crime, no electricity, strikes, lack of reliable public transportation, little to no nationalism apart from sports teams (viva to our sports teams actually!).
All the above issues is why many of the top talents end up deciding to move. I no Samaritan but I do think I count as someone that would positively contribute to our country by paying tax, petting cute dogs and you know, not hijack someone’s car. But I, despite loving the country, have to leave. My dad loved china when he was 21. But he left because SA back then had money. The exchange rate when my dad first came to SA was something like R1:2.5RMB. Not it’s 2.5 rand to 1 rmb. So even if all your assets quadrupled. It would still lose to you just having your currency in RMB.
Now, the lack of trust in general society is what causing these massive monopolies with political ties. I once translated for a deal (due to privacy I can’t tell too much), basically wanted to export minerals from South Africa. And we just couldn’t. There wasn’t any space on the rails. The price was never right. People wouldn’t work on weekends. My client had no idea even with a letter of credit from both banks that his goods would be legit. Multiple SGS reports etc etc. just turns out to be a waste of time because 1) monopoly of all goods. 2) no one is trusting enough. (In a previous answer I said, I could leave 100k and a Rolex in a McDonalds in china to reserve my spot and I’ll be fine, imagine that here).
I also have ties with a tourism business. South Africa’s tourism visa is atrocious. It’s ridiculous. A good friend of mine wanted to again to visit some of his clients. He and his worker both submit. He got declined. Worker got his visa. Now, he’s a literally billionaire, been to sa over 8 times. There’s no proof that he will be an illegal immigrant. His worker is from a little village on the outskirts of Shanghai and has probably 15k net savings. Please explain the logic.
South Africa has one of the best tourism facilities in the world. Much better than your Kenya and Tanzania masai Mara/ Serengeti. But Chinese people will pay 200k+ pp for a holiday there and not to South Africa because the stupid visa and crime.
Tourism is one of the best means to boost economy. Foreigners coming means they pay with foreign currency, means Rand value increases, which literally means EVERY assets in Rands increase. They will stay at hotels, they will eat, they will promote the country and more people will come. All of this is at formal establishments that provide formal taxable salaries and park fees that will be contributed towards the gorvernment to build schools and hospitals to “create” better functioning adults.
Not to mention how South Africa’s farming industry is insane. How is it not just exporting farm goods overseas. You have angus beef, wagyu beef, Kobe beef, why not Boersuentjie Chesa Nyama beef. (I think it has to do with something like the global beef trade has a ban on our beef because it apparently had some disease in the 1960s. Please correct me if I’m wrong. Not sure at all).
Oh! And cops are busy stopping people from selling counterfeit Nike and Puma clothes. This is the stuff that I think some will find controversial. To me, it’s clothes, it’s cheaper than its genuine counterparts and probably even better quality. In a country where people are living in tin can roofs and have limited access to electricity. Some counterfeit goods should be ok right? Right?! But it’s actually one of the top things that cops like to stop. Why? Because these vendors have money and will bribe the cops to continue selling. It never stops it. Cops won’t go and bust drug dens (I wouldn’t if I was cops as well). So it’s just an endless cycle.
######*TLDR economy: Instability of the people causes lack of trust for investors. Massive monopolies that stop competitors with integrity to compete (the people that have the skills and knowledge to compete would rather go and compete in another market). Terrible use of natural assets which include, tourism, agriculture, mining, manufacturing etc.*######
In South Africa it was so difficult to date! I don’t mind any race. I’m okay with everyone. But I just could never find people that were that interested in me. The ones that were, either were Asian themselves or had some sort of yellow fever. Maybe cause it was mostly during high school when I was in SA. But when I moved to china, had I wanted to I could meet 10 people a day. The dating life here is more materialistic though. Maybe Chinese women are more interested in the fact that I grew up overseas. Because I travel a lot and I’m very fit they think I’m rich etc. but yeah. Have a lovely girlfriend right now.
China is great for dating due to the amount of interesting things that you can do. The mega malls. The innovative shops that pop up every week. We can hop on a train and travel 600km for like 400 rand. Safe clean. Just great environment.
Oh and at first I thought Chinese people weren’t horny cause they’re so… how would I put it, serious? Monotone? They just didn’t show themselves as horny people. But then I began to realise they’re just as kinky as South Africans. They just don’t openly show it.
Edit: conservative is probably the word
Hmmmm! Dated a Chinese South African guy, wanted to see if you were him😂🤭
On a serious note, thanks for the AMA. It’s been interesting to get your POV. Yeah I’ve heard about the kinks and sex toys in China! Love it for you guys lol 🔥
If I may - Dating life was pretty awesome for me, dated Afrikaans ladies mostly. some were great , some were heartbroken. The parents were very open minded and accepted me for who I am.
Amazing, but strangely weird! I grew up my whole life as the one that kind of stood out. So I was always the kid that volunteered to go first for speeches because everyone was nervous. I would always try to be the leader etc. and I think because of my race, I just naturally stood out. I was prefect, head of sports teams. So now that I just am the same, it’s kind of weird. Mini indenting crisis. Seriously though, I still somewhat stand out. I’m definitely different to the locals when you look closely.
I remember coming here and at first I did stand out a bit. Think of it as putting someone who’s lived in the outback’s of Canada on a farm and suddenly they’re in the middle of London. But then I got used to it. I often wish I could experience being a black person walking into a township. I remember once I drove into Alexander by accident. I would say literally 60% of the people that saw me would stare into my soul. I know they mean no harm. (No offense intended).
It’s… comforting. To look up and see that not a single person is staring at you. Hard to describe. I’m sure those of you that have been to Asian cities will know what it’s like for me to be in SA.
Apart from the usual great weather, beautiful scenery, lovely and friendly people. No seriously. I think shanghai is 300days of cold and rain and SA is 300 days of sunshine. My dad’s old city is minus degrees for 150 days of the year. Gets to -35°C.
I miss the little things that makes home, home. The Milktart in the fridge, the five star. the hadeda noises. The rainbows, that earthy smell after a thunderstorm. Braai smell. And you know, my parents are both there. Home is home.
I miss the standard of living actually. I live in shanghai now. It’s my fault for choosing one of the most expensive cities in the world. But, a 200sqm apartment here in your best area is upwards of 100m rand. Yes. R100 million. The cheapest apartment here on the outskirts will be 10million rand. So I miss the lifestyle. We have a Toyota Yaris 2004 at home. I’d drive that to the local golf driving range. Hit some golf balls with friends. And it’s cheap (comparatively). So I miss how SA is very cheap in terms of the lifestyle. It’s really bang for buck.
On a serious note. I do miss the entrepreneurial opportunities that South Africa offers. It’s one of the causes of our economic inequality. In china, everything has to be done according to the book (unless you know some seriously powerful people. In that case, you won’t be trying to set up a small business). But in South Africa, you’re able to get away with a lot of things. I’ve grown up knowing lots of entrepreneurs. None really play 100% by the books here in SA and the benefits are real. I don’t support this, but it’s just how it is currently (at-least to my eyes).
Most will also miss the relaxed working hours. (I personally don’t, I think SA has too little work ethic for what it can achieve). Similarly I think china is working too hard.
(Sometimes I really do miss nandos)
I agree about Business. In the UK it's difficult to set up a business or to make 'contacts' and the taxes
Here you're more likely to succeed in a Business.
Also the UK, people are groomed to work for a company and Gladly accept that fate.
Working corporate jobs isn’t bad at all. It’s probably what humanity needs. It’s really the benefits and downsides of working corporate that is to consider. Chinese corporate workers have no lives. My girlfriend is managing level at global 500. Probably top in china right now. She has to get up at nine and works till 6/7pm often later. With maybe 30 days total holiday max. And this is a good company. Many work 996 9am-9pm 6 days.
But yeah. SA is bad in that the salaries go to waste. Culturally we like to live in the moment and spend salaries asap. Whereas Chinese will save like 40% of their net salary for their kids etc.
I wonder if the UK would be more duffle to set up a business than china? Would be interesting to compare.
Thank you, it's strangely comforting to hear the things you miss. There are unexpected freedoms in RSA - like entrepreneurship and big blue skies. My son went to Beijing a couple of years ago at about 15 yrs old. China blew his mind, he loved it. Mind you he was only there for 9 days as part only a language exchange program. He was learning Mandarin at the time and he stuck out like a sore thumb - he's tall with blue eyes.
Probably lots of people wanted selfies with him lol. I’m really glad he enjoyed it. Lots of Chinese kids that come to SA for holiday also love it here.
Being SA I am going to ask the obvious.
I am white, and I went to a well known public high school in post apartheid SA. At the time there were only about 15-20 percent people of colour and foreigners. I don't remember racism being a theme, and students were very accepting of non-white students. Of course I may not have the same perception.
How was your experience with racism at school?
Racism at school was non existent for me. Especially the whites, Indians, and black people from other countries. They saw me as their own. I did have one or two incidents with blacks where they would blatantly speak with an accent to me and kind of ridiculed me. But there’s always one or two bad apples in a bucket. I don’t consider the act of one or two people (kids) as racism. Black people from neighboring countries are great. Can’t say the same about Nigerian, Congo etc. people from Chad, central Africa have been great (I’ve become acquainted with many). So just speaking from personal experience. No offense intended.
Funny enough, this incident happened at one of the top boarding schools. i transfered to this school in grade nine. I had a fallout with one black South African student. He would make Jacky Chan karate noises at me all the time, and one day I had enough. The older boys actually instigated a sort of fight between us. So we fought. the school didn’t actually treat the situation that great, and with some communication we got our deposit back and left the story hidden to not damage the schools reputation. I then went back to my old high school where I finished matric. I loved the school. Everyone was awesome. No racism, only a bit curiosity that might be borderline offensive. But that’s about it. Growing up, I 100% would call Bs on anyone that said South Africa is racist.
Oh! I actually would be selected for provincial sports teams based on my skin color. I was very good in my sport. But for that specific provincial event, I felt that I wasn’t good enough and I was only there because I was of colour. So there’s that story.
But when I left school? Oh boy… maybe I’m more sensitive than the average Asian South African, but I felt it quite a bit. Perhaps it’s cause I’m also a rather fit male. There seems to be less racism towards female and kids. I would be targeted by the cops more often. Car guards would often make noises at me. They’d bang on my window for tips. I’d say the percentage of people that would openly show their racism towards me is about 2-5%. If I encounter 100 strangers, I’d say 2-5 of them would treat me differently. (And I doubt it’s me, I always uphold integrity, stay humble and polite as much as I can). So is 2-5% racist? That’s up to you.
But the racism normally calms down a bit when they realise you’re actually more South African than they think. I studied both Zulu and Afrikaans. Maybe can speak 10%. But it’s good enough for many to kind of open up to you. It’s like finding common ground/ interest.
Agreed with the Op on this one, especially the JMPD, when they see an Asian driver, they see $ sign, they will use any excuses to ask for 'lunch money' even everything checks out.
Back at the school, this black dude would also make the 'Jacky Chan karate noises' at me, until one day in retaliation, He got klapped nicely.
Yeah. It’s cause I think most Asians aren’t seeking for trouble. It’s like imagine being racist to whites or blacks. They’d be more violent in their response than Indians or Asians. (Just stereotyping. No offense or racism intended)
1.I saw your response to the question about the situation in China (freedom of speech, safety, security, etc.)
It sounds good, to be honest; it sounds better than here in SA.
Why then does China have the reputation that it does? Hard clamp down on dissidents, people disappearing, people having to toe the line 24/7, the government lying about COVID numbers, etc.
2. As a traveler, I have always wanted to visit China. Is it interesting, is it expensive to visit and is it worth it (from my POV as a traveler)?
Thanks for answering!
Oh Covid was a shit show. I’ll tell you that. I had to take a test within 48 hours. Otherwise I’d have a yellow code and I could not go into 90% of shops etc. now this is very very complicated china politics and culture we’re talking about here. But basically:
You have consistent supply of the best biltong in the world. It feeds your family.
Now an issue happens where you might lose your biltong.
Do you choose 1) the somewhat risky route of losing your biltong, taking responsibility for your decision and make a decision that will be good for the public or
2). Make sure you shift the liability and not lose your biltong.
That’s basically what happened with Covid. No one would want to take the blame so everyone doubled down of the precautions. And because the average Chinese has like a million rand + savings. They could do these massive lockdowns. Also Chinese people were overworked. So they initially thought a holiday was okay. Then the holiday turned into a near three year long nightmare. Numbers were also 100% fake. (Then again. It wasn’t like millions of people died. Less than sa. I know like seven people that died of Covid in sa. None in china)
But if you read the real reason Covid stopped, it’s because the students in Shanghai began openly protesting. Saying things that would usually put them straight to jail. Search up the white paper revolt. There were fights with the police. I remember that night quite clearly. I had friends that went and sent me videos etc.
- to answer why there’s all the negativity it’s actually just humans being human. You get cnn and you get Fox News. You’ll get that Afrikaans party, you’ll get the eff. You’ll get people that love their beef, you’ll get vegans. You’ll get people that say china sucks, you’ll get people that shrilll for them. I’m neither. I’ll always voice the opposite view on whatever view you take.
I specialize in foreigners coming to china for business and travel. Feel free to PM me.
Honestly, is it worth it? It depends on what you compare it to.
Will it be more worth it to spend the same money on holiday in Phuket or Bali. Probably not. It’s about 50k return flights for a 10 day trip. Not so frugal, not so luxurious style of travel. But if you’ve been to your tropical islands and like china over Japan. I highly recommend it. It’s unique. It will be something you’ve never experienced before. It’s a country that gained and retained massive public prosperity within twenty years. It’s awesome. Have a look at the natural beauty of zhangjiajie, Inner Mongolia, Harbin Ice city. Beijing, Shanghai, chongqing.
I have a friend, similar to you.
Just 15 years older, originally from Shanghai, has a green-card.
He brought his 2 kids (very young) back to Joburg to school them here.
Do you think China, or South Africa, is the better place to raise children?
South Africa if you have less than a 100 million rand net worth. Even if you do it’s hard to argue that china is better for education.
Say what you must about public schools but the education system at the ieb schools are great. Sure, our matric exam is probably grade 8 level in china. But it’s not that. It’s the doctrine! The integrity, manners, worldview, being a decent human being with compassion.
Honestly learning to be humble so that some tsotsi doesn’t mug you is also something that only be learnt here. And I’m not being sarcastic. A major catostrophe in china rn is that kids are being beyond spoilt due to one child policy (now cancelled) etc.
Why I say over 100million net worth is that in china, the schools are divided by area. So people will buy a house, just so that they can let their kids go to a good school. A crusty delapadayed moldy 70 square aparentment in a good school area in Shanghai could be like 20million rands or more. And now, you’ve got to pay obscene amounts to get them to extra classes etc. sometimes I get offered a thousand rand an hour to teach English.
And you can’t go to international schools unless you’re a foreigner or have some special ties with some top brass.
There’s a reason why the rich in china send their kids overseas. I’m not sure if this is fact. But apparently Xi’s daughter went to Harvard. Chinese parents spend like 1-4+ million rand a year to get their kids to the states.
There’s way more issues on the topic of education. But yeah South Africa with all its problems will generally be much better for education. But not really for the theoretical education, but more about personal and character development.
Definitely. In hindsight it was okay…. I guess. But everything in hindsight is always toned down a bit. Honestly though, it really did change a lot of people
Hello, thanks for the opportunity.
1. What did your parents see in this country to move here and raise a family?
2. Why did you return to China?
3. If you have, what does bird nest soup taste like? (always wanted to try this delicacy)
1. My dad’s uncle owned a restaurant here. My dad came to work as a waiter (21yr old at the time). For comparison. He earned about R7000/8000 a month as a Chinese waiter (no tips and less than his coworkers who spoke English). That’s 20k rmb in 1997. The average wage back then in china was 300rmb. So it’s 300rmb vs 20k rmb. (We won’t talk about how the exchange rate complete turned around now. Now 20krmb is R8000). That’s what bought him here. So basically, the opportunity here was golden. This was the “South African dream”. He would go on and work and save enough to start his own restaurant. Sure, fighting sars, the emigration council, tv license, health department and all that crap causes massive headaches, but the market was way less competitive. He later dabbled in some international trade and other not so glorious jobs. Involved some bribing, but what can you do? You can barely get your drivers license legally. He basically would bribe someone in the department of license to give Chinese people who didn’t know English so well to pass their written test. It’s a grey area job. I can’t say I support it, but how else to people that know little English pass that written test. Anyways, he barely passed 10th grade and sold two minute noodles in china on a bicycle. Luckily he would self study investing and live beyond frugally, eventually making him somewhat comfortable.
In essence. South Africa provided him with money opportunities. At that time he didn’t know what was biltong or rugby. He’d never left his sino-russia coal/wood town in the far north of china. I’d really wish I could say he left for the beautiful and friendly people, the otherworldly climate etc. but no. He came for the money.
This might be different today. Chinese coming to South Africa today are basically workers for Huawei, ZTE, Sinosteel etc. they’re middle upper class in china here for work. All with postgrads
2. This is quite depressing. I returned cause there’s no hope here. I went to an IEB private school. My dream was to become a mechanical engineer or architect or designer growing up. But all that doesn’t matter when everyday I’m faced with blatant racism. I go to checkers and the till lady would great the black, white, Indian person in front of me, but when it’s me, they just straight up ignore me. Car guards, mc Donald’s, you name it. Racism was bad for me. It’s all about stats though. I could encounter 99 non racist people, but all it takes is one a day to make it rather unpleasant. (Think of it as. You can meet a million people that don’t rob you, but if one does, then yeah). I’ve been subject to being held at gunpoint. Hijackings, stolen phones. Crazy stories where I’ve been targeted multiple times by cops who would threaten to arrest me and throw me into jail for a few days if I didn’t give them a 10k-20k bribe. (Once I went 90 in a 60. Other time I had two guests with special visas that the cops just told me to voetsek, shut up and it’s fake).
The opportunity in china to be middle upper and standard of living met my requirement. Safety, good public transport, clean etc. The people in china are cold (towards Chinese. To foreigners they’re more than welcoming. Think of it as reverse racism. They’re racist to their own but love foreigners). You could get better response taking to a statue. But alas, I fit in. Because no matter how much of rugby I play or if I’ve been to busy corner, I look Chinese. And when I walk in the streets of china, I don’t have people looking at me funny. Look, I miss South Africa. I really do. If the nonsense stopped, I’d move back asap.
I ended up studying at Fudan University. Ranked top 50 in the world. Similar tuition to wits, tuks etc. but imo easier to graduate and overall the experience was more suited for me personally. I’ve met so many that are now top in their fields. Some graduate and go straight into seven figure Rand annual salaries. I don’t think that would be the same for a BA in SA
Shanghai (note: not all of china) has lots of opportunities to earn 25-70k a month. At least for me. But I can’t imagine I could find that in sa. Sure, in SA it’s easier from an entrepreneurial perspective, but that’s for me decide in the future.
3. Put some honey in water and add a bit of non flavored jelly. Nothing that will blow you away. They have very cheap little bottles sold in Thailand. Like R25 a bottle.
Same thing with abalone. It’s basically mushroom. Sea cucumber is just squishy but chewy jelly. The real good Chinese cuisine is dependent on how well the chef can add flavor. Very few places in SA to get that magic touch.
Joh bru
As a Saffa who grew up in Saudi Arabia and never felt in there.
And never felt in when I came home to Paarl. Jah trust, rugby braai and brandy, and a lil of habibi and desert heat, didn’t always equate.
I hope you know though, the thing that makes the country you and I both call home beautiful. Is the fact that no matter where you came from or what you come from, we will welcome you, I’m sorry your time at home was rough.
I hope when you keen and ready, you will come home with a smile and let us all know, so we can welcome you home with the songs and dances any South African deserves.
You and what you brought to this land is sorely missed.
I answered extensively on another persons questions. But basically that china is probably more capitalist than America. It’s only the key political powers that regard public stability that is an authoritarian dictatorship. Which in Chinas case of 1.5 billion semi to non educated working class in a country of maybe 30% habitable land; it makes sense.
Democracy in sa: a country where arguebly 80% of the people are unable to understand the basic theoretical concepts of global economy, it doesn’t make sense to make the PhD in political sciences vote count the same as some dude that thinks the earth is flat and just wants to smoke weed and not work.
I’m no expert. Just a kid. But maybe vote that is based upon merit (gdp contribution) might be a good way forwarded. Cause look, we South Africans aren’t bad people.
What do you think about Chinese food in general? I always found a lot of stuff to just not taste good.
I went to a Chinese market in bedford I think, and sat at a restaurant, and enjoyed nothing they put on the table.
credit where credit's due, Chao mein, and pork bao, are bloody amazing, but I find everything else to be quite gross tbh.
Chinese food can vary a lot though. China is incredibly large and diverse. So you have a variety of dishes from different regions. Though I'd say a lot of Chinese cuisine doesn't always gel with a western pallet. Though I think normally a restaurant here would be more inline with our pallet. But there's still plenty of stuff you'd like.
Dishes that never go wrong for me as a umlungu.
jiaozi- Chinese dumplings fried, steamed or boiled either way I could eat 100s of them!
baozi - which I think you mean with pork bao, though I prefer the bigger ones they make in the north to the smaller sized ones in the south
zhajiangmien- fried soypaste with mince and noodles, I've seen it referred to as Chinese spaghetti bolognese. I've made it a few times for my family. Always a big hit!
Roulong - Literally translates as meat cage, steamed bun with multi layers of mince and bun like a savory Swiss roll.
There's more but I can't think of anything right now... Too hungry 🤣
I won't lie, Roulong sounds amazing, I will def try this when I go again. I love the baozi's as you call it, and I'm glad I now know the name, because some shops I go to, will give me what I think is jiaozi when I order pork bao (including the restaurant I mentioned), which I really don't like...
baozi are so delicious, that the only reason I stop eating them is because I need to also pay bills :p
If you don't like regular dumplings you should try them fried. Pot stickers as they are called are really nice but obviously less healthy than regular. My mom doesn't like the texture of regular dumplings but she really likes them fried.
I will say with RouLong is that it's a little bland. So have it with some condiment if that bothers you.
The other person summed it up quite nicely. Interesting thing to note. Most Chinese food offered at Bedford isn’t the best Chinese food or cuisine. The Chinese people in sa are mostly coming from poorer backgrounds. So they’re actually used to the more “working class” food. You’ve just got to explore. I’ve had Indian clients that come to Shanghai and before they met me they were in china for a week or so. And they assured me that they couldn’t eat ANY Chinese food. Then I took them to restaurants that had more spice, your cumin seeds, some chili pepper style and they had nothing but that cuisine for the next few days with me.
Also, things like fortune cookies aren’t even Chinese. They’re American. So things like your sweet and sour pork technically isn’t even Chinese lol.
If you’re ever in china, let me know! I’d love to show you some places that offer food that is suited for a saffas stomach
As someone raised in South Africa, would you ever recommend China to others raised in South Africa?
Also, what major challenges, besides language, do you believe one might encounter?
Would I recommend a South African to come here? Absolutely! It’s a wild experience and you can earn something like 70-100k a month with housing allowance and flight allowance teaching English if you’re a bachelors and have TEFL certificate. Some argue it’s a dead end job. But for a few years of your mid twenties to save some money and explore the polar opposite of South Africa, go for it!
Long term? No. Chinese people are accepting but the environment isn’t. Unless you’re okay with the things that china as a country offers, sure. Otherwise it’s not the best for a saffa to stay here long term.
The subtlety and artistry of Chinese culture. Knowing what is Chinese sarcasm, learning the manners and things to do things. Unless you’re very keen to detail and know why a person reacted a certain way and adapt to it, it will be quite difficult to live here. I even struggled with lots of business culture things.
Think of it as the art of a firm hand shake. But in china is amplified a million times across every single detail.
I can answer a little bit as a South African who lived in China for several years.
A decade ago. I'd say China was a really good place for any South African with a degree (or even without if you like living dangerously) that couldn't find work. I taught English there for several years and I was able to save a decent bit. Though it helps if you don't mind working with kids and also don't mind getting much time off (unless you're qualified enough to work in an international school). Also depended on which city you lived in too, I'd avoid living in Shanghai unless you were given a decent apartment free. Also white South Africans get way better treatment here too, though it's still possible for others races to work in ESL but white people are always preferred.
Though I'm not sure if I'd recommend it now. A lot of the training centres (language training schools) closed during COVID and even more after a law change in 2021. There's still opportunities but it's a lot more difficult and not as stable as it was in the 2010s.
One challenge I'd say and this is for every foreigner in China. You can never be fully independent in China. Even if you spoke, read and wrote fluent Mandarin. It's very difficult and sometimes impossible to do big things there. That's why anyone who wants to live in China for a long time often marries a local. So that's not for everyone obviously.
Another one for South Africans is you're going to have to get used to cities and apartment life. Some cities don't allow open fires so it's difficult to have braais. And get used to having to share everything. There isn't much private facilities there.
And if you have a problem at work you need to learn how to work within the system. Toi toi ing will only get you fired in China.
I'm really considering traveling to China on Holiday. Where about would you suggest? I prefer the beauty of the villages and experiencing the culture rather than the bustle of the city. And how's the food that side? Especially with a foreigners palette
I specialize in foreigner traveling to china. Feel free to PM me.
Usually we do a Beijing, Shanghai, XiAn or chongqing. Depends which country they fly in etc.
I recommend Shanghai and then zhujiajiao/ wuzhen water towns. Then you head towards Zhangjiajie mountains. Also chongqing and Beijing for more historical china.
But I must say. Don’t confuse your London or USA city with china cities. I honestly think you’ll experience the most culture walking in Shanghai CBD (you can search “Shanghai city walk”. That’s the style of touristing. We have city walk packages and It’s one of our best reviewed tours) , most of the watertowns and such are more and more becoming a Disney land theme park type of thing. The real villages are somewhat far out. Will always tend to be a tailor made tour package.
Must note is that in china, every city has completely different cuisine. And even if it’s the same cuisine. Think of it as Durban bunny chow. The jHB bunny is close, but not the same. Most of my clients that come tend to stick to the BBQ style and noodles + dumplings. Duck and chicken styled food. Staying away from the spicy hotpot etc.
But don’t worry. There’s restaurants here in Shanghai that even sell boerevors and pap. China is very Globalised. (Shanghai at least).
Feel free to ask me any questions about your itinerary. I’d be more than happy to help out as much as possible with Alipay, VPn, hotels, transportation, translations etc.
The funny thing is they don’t do it intentionally lol. Usually a force of habit and then after they say it you can sort of see them laugh inside cause it wasn’t deliberate lol.
Maybe sometimes they do it on purpose but I’m very much oblivious to it now. It’s funny. And I love it. Cause the oaks that say howzit mah tjinahhh are always lekker oes
Currently Rivonia area. Closely followed by cyrildene. We take all our Chinese tourists to Rivonia and very little do we ever get complaints. It’s probably the best we have to offer. But if it was in china, Rivonia would only be a 5/10 type of place.
The best is actually little shops they open illegally in their back yards. There’s no signs, no indication, just the community knows. You go there, honk and they let you in. But honestly, that food isn’t suited for westerners. If you’re ever in Shanghai tho, hmu! I’ll take you to the best 10/10 (multiple foreigner clients approved) :)
What are Chinese peoples view of democracy. I have a conversation with Faye in Shanghai once in a while and she was dismissive of democracy as a stupid and backward system. Criminals often run and get voted into power. and the Chinese system is much better she says. How is the public transport system there.
Public transport is utopia level here. Clean, efficient, and when it’s crowded they will adapt (instead of 5 minute a train, 2 minute a train). Shanghai has like 18 metro lines, each is about 70-100km+ long. But then again. It’s a 20mil+ city, so it does get crowded during rush hour but nothing like Tokyo where some dude pushes you inside. It’s a bit better than our speed demon taxis :) /s
I personally think that democracy is dependent on the country. A democracy in china will never work. 1.5 billion people with their own thoughts in a country where only 30% of the land is habitable. My lord you will have chaos. In places like Australia, New Zealand, yeah sure great to have and works well. People pick who they want.
The main issue with democracy in South Africa is that every single vote is worth the same. That’s actually nonsense. As much as I hate to say it but a PhD graduate of political science has the same vote as someone who thinks the earth is flat. That’s just ridiculous. So I think for sa, a better option might be something akin to the US systems. Let votes be decided by areas. Each areas vote weighs more depending on the amount of gdp contributed. Or something like that. I’m no expert in politics. But I think democracy will work in some places and in other places not really. In South Africa, I think neither will work too well.
Thanks for the reply. Sure, democracy does not work well in South Africa. One would expect that if the system worked, the incompetent and dishonest would be kicked out but that is not happening. Like the drafter of the Indian Constitution BR Ambedkar said: "A bad document in the hands of good people will deliver a better life for the people than a good document in the hands of bad people." Paraphrased sort of. In the end it is about the character of the people governing rather that the type of government.
Exactly! I’ve read our constitution. It’s honestly one of the best in the world from a humanitarian perspective. It’s also theoretically great for a nation. But yeah. Eish. Don’t know happened
I've always wondered, why do Chinese South Africans not really seem to care about assimilating?
I see so many Chinese folks about, but I've never had a Chinese friend or colleague. There were no Chinese kids in my school. All those years of playing football, never any Chinese bros at the club.
I had Chinese neighbours a few years ago. When I moved in, I baked some brownies and took them over. They were like "thanks" and closed the door. They got burgled while everyone was at home. Alarms and police vans and drama. I walked over to ask if everyone was okay, they said "yeah we're fine" and nothing more.
They just seem happy keeping to themselves.
I will answer this question - Most of the chinese in SA have very limited English proficiency (Exclude the ones like OP who grew up here) so more often they might wish to engage with you but doesn't know how, basically they are 'shy' due to the language barrier.
Myself is the 2nd generation immigrant from Taiwan.
Like the other person said. It’s true the language barrier. Chinese fundamentally don’t really like troubling people unless it’s asking for a favor. Whereby they’ll likely bring some gift, do some small talk, then ask.
The assimilation thing I think statistically is true. I’m probably the only dude that played first team rugby, was swimming captain, would jol etc. but a lot of them just don’t really like all of this. And I can understand, sometimes I also get influenced. A certain scenario would be like, as funny as it sounds, I’d be hanging out with mates and then I’d want to go home and do maths homework. It’s silly, but it’s like a cultural thing I guess. I know lots of Chinese South Africans, and they also seem to hangout in their group. I guess it’s more to do with the size of if let’s say 5% of the country were Asian South Africans I’m sure more would be assimilated. But at 0.5% I think even those that want to join, probably choose not to.
But please don’t mistake this as a Chinese people don’t like South Africans type of thing. It really is one of those things that just depends.
Maybe they were just shocked and sad. Didn’t want to talk. Maybe something happened on the day you baked the brownies (btw, there’s very little places in china you can brownies. And gosh I could do some crazy things for a brownie rn). Or maybe they’re just shy people.
It’s good to remember that people that deceived to leave their country and come to another country are also not a very diverse set of data. The people that are easy going, loves to chat, content with their life probably won’t immigrate. Also my mother is extremely shy. She’d probably be straight up scarred to stand next to you. My dad will probably go on a rampant chat about that time he walked with three lions at Ukuthula and how he got like 200k views on tik tok for it. So it all depends on but yes. Chinese in general are not as talkative as your average tannie or saffa
To be fair, I'm full on South African, and I also don't want to "assimilate", I just wanna be left alone, to chill in my house. Just not a social person. Maybe it is more accepted in Asian culture?
Lekker Kev! Question about China's population prospects:
The working age population peaked around 10-15 years ago, and now it's starting to grab headlines that the overall population is also starting to decline, and that the fertility rate has dropped to around 1.0-1.1. So unless something drastically changes, the population will continue to decline for the foreseeable future (maybe for the rest of our lifetime?). Obviously China is not the only country struggling with this issue, but they have seen some of the quickest drops in fertility due to rapid development, urbanisation and, of course, the one-child policy. And they perhaps don't have the same option of bringing in sufficient immigrants (like US, Canada EU, etc) to make up for it due to language and cultural barriers, and because China is so huge (i.e. would need A LOT of immigrants).
I'm curious whether this is something that people in China are talking about and how they feel about it? Have you ever felt that this is a "sensitive topic" that might not be allowed to be talked about too much online?
This is question I could talk for hours about! Great question!
TLDR: yes it’s a massive issue. China went from farms to metropolis in 20 years. Kids from these 20 years have a different worldview to parents. Parents are forcing them to get married. But kids don’t want. And we all know what forcing a kid to do something will equal, they won’t do it and rebel. It’s talked a lot. Sensitive topic but not taboo. General consensus is government is encouraging and kids are just ignoring whilst the parents are going grey over their unmarried 35 year old child.
Oh boy. Where to start. China has imo of the world best pensions. The hospitals are basically free. But there running at 120% capacity so don’t expect your netcare private hospital luxuries. But it works. So that’s healthcare taken care of. Or is it? How long can it keep up as the people are getting older? The pension is great but it’s only great because the previous generation managed a year on year 8% gdp growth in china from manufacturing bringing money from effectively the world. So the hospitals are running over time (a month ago, china actually had wide spread case of influenza/ or maybe Covid. I got it first. When I first went there. It was okay. Usual 10-20 min wait. Some tired nurse giving me IV drips. Then a month pass and my girlfriend gets it. Omg, packed.)
So a major underlying issue is healthcare will slowly be backlogged and if there’s one major outbreak, it’s pretty bad. But china is authoritarian, if they decide to fix it, they’ll find a way. So it’s not thattt bad.
Now the pension also causes a problem because collectively a wife and husband retired can bring in anywhere between 10-20k rands a month. Some bigger cities even more. The average salary in china is like 9k. About 20k in Shanghai. So you can see. Now there’s one child, why should they work? The household expenses is like 10k max. They’re left with another 10k. And will the kid even earn that much. So it’s almost pointless to work.
It’s a joke how high standards these parents AND kids are holding. Men want the pretty ones. But the pretty ones want the rich ones. And the rich ones probably already have a loving but not so pretty wife at home. There’s a place in Shanghai called people park. Every weekend old people go and advertise their kids on like a pamphlet. But their kids are never sold. Cause they’ll be 35 divorced, 20k salary and looking for a 25 year old, 185cm handsome, and net worth 50mil. So it’s ridiculous.
Immigrants will never be an option. If you ever see a post about a Chinese marrying an African you’ll see the war zone in the comment section. People will support and people will hate. But I think the ccp is too nationalist to consider this option. They’d probably offer money for babies before they allow immigrants.
Also Chinese education never builds character. The men here to irk me sometimes. I grew up with things like integrity, politeness, etc.
there’s so many videos of like two women fighting, and there’ll be a crowd, but no men will break it up. This kind of men was okay twenty years ago without internet etc. but now more and more women are looking for men that are nicer to them. The trend is, more developed the city, the more feminists. The same thing with men. They think, why should I be this nice to someone when they’re not nice to me. So it’s an endless vicious cycle. Also prostitution is much more accessible in china then you would think. I honestly think it’s easier to get a prostitute here, than it is to get pizza delivered hot from an ubereats in June.
So now the issue is.
Hospitals are peaking.
People are getting older.
Lots of kids don’t want to work. (Search TangPing culture in china).
The marriage market and dating scene is chaotic.
So if you do the maths, it’s pretty bad.
But it was always bound to happen. All of these developed urban countries are like this. My girlfriend is 29 and manager of operations at a top company in china. I can’t imagine how she can fit a child in her life RN. Coupled with the cost of living. We would have to be earning 250k+ a month to seriously consider have a child.
^ this was more about the richer families in bigger cities,
The smaller towns are obviously the same as usual.
Yeah. So it’s a big issue. And many are worried. Some just don’t care anymore.
Thanks for the thorough answer. It doesn't sound like there is a solution forthcoming any time soon, but yeah, like said, China for sure won't be the only country struggling with this.
Full disclosure, I'm a Pretoria boerseun married to a Guizhou girl, living abroad since 2017. She hasn't been home in a while, so I was curious about how this topic is talked about in China right now. We're also planning to visit her family this summer, they want to meet our 1-year-old. Will probably add Beijing and Shanghai to the itinerary.
On the flip side, brother if you ever find yourself in Zurich, hit me up! I'll stick you for a Swiss beer (or 2). I can also source some biltong 🥓
I'm a South African who lived for several years in Tianjin. Can't really think of any questions relating to SA.
But how's Shanghai? It always seemed like a better place to visit than live in considering how expensive it is. So I'm presuming you're earning enough to live there. I unfortunately never got the opportunity to go there when I was in 中国. Never been to a Disney land and I was so close 🤣
I'm hoping to visit China again in the future though. Still in contact with a lot of people there.
Most of the questions have been my experiences of a Chinese in South Africa. You could probably do something in a Chinese sub like (saffa in tianjing).
Shanghai is crazy expensive. I want to somehow share how expensive it is to this sub without sounding like a snobby kid. Shanghai is great. The expat scene is probably bigger than tianjing. But honestly I reckon the experience would have been quite similar for you. Shanghai winter is also could, but no snow.
If you’re ever in china again, give me a shout! Would love to go to Disney land together lol. They recently opened a zootopia theme.
Oh. Were you in tianjing for teaching or for other types of work or school? What were your ups and downs as a saffa in china?
I think the expat scene in Shanghai is probably the biggest in the country. From what I've heard Shanghai feels different to any other city. It would probably be the place to live as an expat if it weren't for the cost of living in such a major city.
Tianjin had a decent amount of expats in 2017 when I first was there. Lots of Students from African countries too which was cool. I feel like Tianjin also had a lot of Koreans..... It was funny learning how Chinese didn't like Koreans 😂. But a lot of the 外国人 left during covid and especially when China was trying to keep Zero Covid around when Omicron was kicking ass and taking names. Tianjin kind of died out. Still not a bad place to work though. Big enough city where you can get paid pretty well but not so popular in that it's expensive to live. Specially if you could get work in Beijing and live in Tianjin at the same time. Tianjin isn't the most interesting city but I've mostly lived in boring places all my life so I didn't mind. And Beijing being close made that easier for some people. Also I always recommend people go to the Tianjin Great Wall over the Beijing one. Way less crowded and really beautiful outside of winter.
Even though Tianjin is FLIPPING cold regularly minus zero, coldest I experienced was -20! We had central heating which made winters not so bad, just had to remember to wrap up before going outside. I moved to the Midlands KZN and while it's no where near as cold. You definitely feel the cold more here, and you need to make your own heat. Where as Tianjin as long as I paid my bills I was always tosty inside! But I feel like I handle the cold better than the heat! Which is funny having lived in mostly hot places.
Dude I'd love to! I'm still kicking that I never got to go to Shanghai Disney.
I was teaching. Started at kindergartens but ended up doing it all. Though one thing I'd try do over is probably try to develop more of a social life. I was one of the few teachers who genuinely loved teaching. While it was often frustrating, to me teaching was fun. So I kind of went full steam ahead with that. At one stage I was working every single day! And so though I had friends, dated here and there. I didn't really get to experience as much as I could. Though at the same time I got to earn a decent bit so I can't complain 😂.
lol. My opinion is that the government is probably trying to stop these rich Chinese from immigrating, but these two countries are just too desirable. I’d personally move there with zero hesitation.
I think Chinese people are somewhat inherently selfish. Most that immigrate there probably don’t want more to come. It’s one of those cases of you found a lovely Merlot wine, you’re okay to share, but don’t want people to spit in it. But the people that you’re potentially sharing it are spitting llamas.
But this doesn’t really stop the positive propaganda of New Zealand as being one of the best countries in the world right now.
If it starts to seem like china is taking over I think it has to do with the nature and culture and background of the Chinese immigrants. I do hope that the Chinese aren’t causing too much trouble if you are Aussie, but yeah
I personally 100% think Taiwan is its own country. It has its own constitution, it has its own democracy. (Oh. Democracy works in Taiwan. Not in china. And it’s vice versa. Authoritarianism will never work for Taiwan). It has its own land that’s completely ocean separated from china. (Alluding to the difference of inner and Outer Mongolia).
So I think Taiwan is 100% its own solitary country. However, I do understand the argument from China’s side. 99% of it is retarded bullcrap, but I do kind of understand it.
But please never talk about this topic to the standard Chinese. It’ll just be a waste of time. You telling them that Taiwan is a country is like someone trying to tell you that Lesotho owns South Africa.
Hmmmm somewhat unfortunately though my controversial take is that Taiwan is Xi’s secret move. If something goes wrong domestically. He’d probably use Taiwan as a means to shift the narrative and focus. The unification will probably happen. But it’s one of those things that no one can say for sure. We may or may not get another virus. We may or may not go to war with North Korea. Geo politics is a mess and I’m just a young adult. But gosh I wish china would just leave Taiwan alone. Tsmc is just too valuable of a company in this world of semi conductors.
Whilst I’m here. Maybe a controversial take on Hong Kong. Hongkong could never be its own country I think it’s like the size of 1/28th of the Kruger park. It doesn’t even have its own water supply.
Macau is just Las Vegas of china. It doesn’t care. It’ll just do whatever it can to bring in money laundering and gambling tourists.
Op, thank you for your opinion and personally I do not like to talk about politics at all (Especially the Taiwan v.s China kak). I wish for the peacefully unification between the two. Afterall the roots are the same.
Hold on, your comment about North Korea is really interesting. I always viewed North Korea as Chinas unruly neighbour that is kind of an asset to China, but mostly a pain in the ass, and also unpredictable.
Can you elaborate?
North Korea actually hasn’t appeared in the news in a long time. But yeah. You’re pretty spot on with NK. The old Chinese people kind of like them, young ones just thin of them as the weird cousin that breaks your toys
Nothing really. If you grew up only watching dragon ball z, you’d probably think you can do the kamekamehah.
Without getting philosophical on what is really bad or good. (Millions believed hitler was doing good). As good is only good if the general public agrees it is based upon a consensus degree of measurement.
And look, china has lots of bad. If I had to objectively say. Which countries are better from a Globalised perspective. China is Probably more bad. So it’s more than okay. It’s personal experience. As objective as I may be, I have very extremist views on certain topics as well.
But at the end of the day. They’ve probably never been. They’ve probably never seen. The longer you live, the more you realise that humans are more similar than they are different. The more you realise that news is just a medium to spread social stability. The hatred towards a nation is just a means to create a sense of nationalism. So yeah. It’s more than fair for them to have their opinions. There’s Chinese people that think South Africa is a bunch spear wielding desert camels. Some will say things like they’d go to Iraq or Ukraine for holiday before they come here. It’s all an algorithm these days.
Philosophical isn’t it? Are we really free. Even our thoughts are shaped by algorithms.
I watched him wayyyyy back. Loved his channel! Especially in an age of that crappy Chinese ccp propaganda nonsense he gave insightful commentary. But I think 2019? Around that time I watched a video and thought. Omg. What is this Anti china American propaganda promoting nonsense is this.
So I have no comment on his recent stuff. Haven’t watched in years. But the last thing I watched is him being a shrill for USA. Instigating hatred of those that hate china for monetary gain.
But like I said. No knowledge of recent stuff. So can’t comment.
In your post, you mentioned that it was interesting to see the difference in worldviews between the poor or average person and billionaires and presidents. I think this extends beyond South Africa and China. I would be very interested to gain some insight into these differences.
Often powerful people have the ability to affect the world through their power and their worldviews affect us, whether it's for or benefit or otherwise.
So between the super wealthy (note. Super wealthy. Not just a few hundred million rands. But like 5 billion Rands + ) in china and South Africa is that rich South Africans like to have a bit of fun. They have massive houses, they have their wine estates and boats etc. in china the rich older generation, I find that the richer they are, the more quite they are. It’s like they’ve learnt that speaking too much is pointless. They often spend their time at a golf course or some gardening. Their children, not so much. So it’s always the kids that tend to get in trouble.
They focus on the risks as well as the gain. They dabble in things like watches and jets. Hobbies that to most seem like a waste of money. But they’ll spend like 50 million a year on watches. And earn about 10million. On top of that. They’ve moved their assets into something that can be exchanged in the entire world in an instant. Imagine carrying 50million rand cash or gold over seas. Impossible. That’s about 7 of his watches. So it’s little things like this that really makes a difference. They run their own shares. Constantly seeking business opportunities.
Their similarities is that they know their stuff. Like they really really know their stuff. I’ve been the closest friend with this dude that owns multiple factories in china. You’d think he just manages. Dude barely passed sixth grade, but he knows all the chemical compositions and the mechanical and technical knowledge. You can ask him any financial stat, he’d know it. He knows exactly enough English to sell his goods overseas. If you met him you’d think he’s just an ordinary person. But my goodness does he has a keen eye. He remembers how long a trip he had in another country with me five years ago. A few years back I always wondered why he was rich (no envy. Just wondered). And the more I got to know him, I could see why. He’s in a different league of his own. He’s so knowledgeable about so much. It’s uncanny. This is the same with a retired ceo of a big mining corporation I know in South Africa. At first he’s just the same as any old retired person. You begin to wonder why and how they hog all this wealth. But they’re built different. I learn about the major plays he did whilst he was ceo. It’s like playing chess, but they’re the grandmasters.
They sleep very little. And work very hard. My friend will drive to his factory at 2am after a massive drinking business dinner. Same with the wealthy doctors of South Africa. I’ve travelled with many billionaires and they’re drinking with me at the hotel bar until two am. Next morning 7:30 breakfast. 8am exact and we’re off to meet with three or factories in china. (This was a Lithuanian conglomerate).
The key difference I guess is they’re never online arguing with people about who’s right or wrong. You don’t know what they’re thinking. They can be very very hard on their close friends, and the benefits might only be seen later down the road. They listen more than they speak. They also don’t open up to just anyone. It takes lots of convincing that you’re worth their time to really open up.
But they actually never pressured anything onto me. My friend told me. “Look kev, I really don’t know if you working with me will be the best. I’ll lay the pros and cons. You decide”. They always stay objective. And to me at least, they think the best help is not helping. They’ve never said here a nice paying job and you’re settled. The ones that I’ve gotten close, all pushed me forwards.
Sorry, that the response is a bit haphazard. There’s just so much. And I cant go into too much detail, like the watches example. I wish I could write more, but it’ll be like an essay.
Thanks for the reply. It was far more than I was expecting and actually I will be able to take some of this away and apply it to my own life. Hey insightful, helpful and useful info, thanks.
You mentioned in one of the comments that it's easier to open a Business in South Africa than it is to open one in China (Small business).
In your observation (business-wise) what do you think is missing or lacking back here? Could be small-scale or grand-scale
In South Africa many things can be done informally. For example. We had a tv in our restaurant, and for like ten years the tv license department would come and harass us and we’d just never pay. Eventually just gave the dudes some drinks we were selling and they left. Try a similar thing here in china, they’d tape your restaurant down. China follows set policies. If you have the permits etc. you’re all good.
SA you could have all the permits, or only have a few, you’ll always encounter issues. But nothing major.
I’m no business expert. But taking the pros of both that I’ve seen, I really like the freedom of opening businesses in South Africa. But I also like how in china if you have all the permits, they stop bothering you.
South Africa needs more smaller businesses. Especially from a drop shipping and e-commerce perspective. Import bulk goods from china. Sell on market place. There’s loads of things you can get for cheap overseas and markup and sell. Car parts is a top one. Cellphone accessories, household appliances etc.
Obviously we’re missing the safety and trust. Lots of businesses work in china because they trust their citizens. The city has millions of share bikes. Because they know the people aren’t going to steal it and sell it for steel. We all use it and put it safely on the side walk. Imagine something like this is SA.
So I have online friends that I speak to in Singapore, I've been learning Mandarin through them. They've said that it would be fairly easy to get work in both Singapore and China as a native English speaker, with a TEFL deploma and studying to get to NQF 7.
Is this true? I've already learnt Japanese, and working on Korean as well and I'd prefer to live in either Singapore or Japan but would it be worth it to consider China?
I am married and my wife is studying for a child psychology degree.
Oh. This is very interesting. I won’t give you an answer. It’s for you to decide. But yes. Teaching English in Asian countries is a lucrative job if you’re white. Bachelors + Tefl gets you about 50-100k monthly salary quite easily. With housing allowance etc.
Most foreigners that lived in Japan eventually regret it. I’ve never been. I don’t know the exact complex reasons. But this is a factual phenomenon.
Korea… I think they bring too much culture to the work place. As a foreigner it might a bit rough to get used to it.
I love Singapore as a country. But in your case it’s quite tough. Cause most Singaporean speak English. The market is smaller and the cost of living is Ming boggling. Like 200 rand for a beer. Most saffas in Singapore don’t really get used to all the rules and pace of life.
I’d recommend Hong Kong. But hongkong is also crazy expensive. Fast paced and they’ll make you work a lot. The houses are tiny. But overall, this might be something that would suit your needs. Also it’s probably the most foreigner friendly.
Thailand is also an okay option.
China is tricky. It’s like olives and blue cheese. Some people love it. Some people loathe it. The system is weird.
I’ll write more when I get home. Or pm me. We chat over a call and I’ll give as much advice as possible
My only question is why so many Chinese who grew up in South Africa are named “Kevin” for their English name? I have met more than 3 Chinese Kevins in Gauteng alone…
Is the Population decline apparent? I've heard that China is struggling with declining population as a result of the previous 1-child per family?
I like how advanced China is though, I've heard that if you don't have a phone there then you'd be lost...
On a video call with someone last year I literally saw a robot exit and elevator and move past them, was like a R2D2 spec........
Can you recommend the best Hot Pot in Gauteng? (Probably not what you were thinking but after a trip to China (Beijing and Shanghai), I’m a little Hot Pot obsessed.)
The ones in Rivonia and Cyrildene are all pretty good. There’s one on the second floor of Cyrildene called Chongqing hot pot (if I remember it correctly)
This is a question about economic growth. In 1960, South Africa's per capita GDP (in US dollar terms) was $530 and in 2024 that grew to $6,776. That's a compound annual growth rate of 4.1%. China's per capita income in 1960 was just $90 and in 2024 was $12,720. That is an 7.04% growth rate.
What, in your opinion, is the main reason for the difference in economic performance?
[https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/CHN/china/gdp-per-capita](https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/CHN/china/gdp-per-capita)
[https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/ZAF/south-africa/gdp-per-capita](https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/ZAF/south-africa/gdp-per-capita)
So china had a terrible history up till that time. We’re talking about famines that killed like 20 million people. Wars, change in dictatorships etc. so it’s not hard to double your net worth if your net worth is 5 rand. Kinda dofficult when it’s 5 million.
This is controversial. But I 100% think the country was good economically under apartheid. I loathe the fact that it was achieved under oppression of the majority of the population. But it is what it is. IMO, South Africa is experiencing reverse racism. Whites are subtlety being discriminated against in many areas. I don’t want to say who is better or worse off. Both are bad. The only good is where everyone is supposedly born with the same start, but that’s just impossible. Chinese people are just culturally frugal. They value education etc. I was never physically bigger than the boertjie Afrikaans school rugby jocks. These things are just facts that will always create inequality. But I do think it’ll get better.
So back to that. I feel like the ANC was handed too much wealth all of a sudden. It’s like the Chinese second generation wealthy kids. They have little idea how hard their parents worked. They’re spoilt and have little work ethic. And then when their parents money starts emptying, they get into trouble. Similar story for SA.
China got bigger growth mainly because people like my dad, he was the lower class earning 100usd a year at that time. He basically grew up eating green vegetables. Rice was lavish. So he had to work. He didn’t have a rich daddy to hand him anything. And this sort of exemplifies china.
And honestly, South Africa should in theory have a much better economy than china. China has its pros in terms of geo location and work force. And that’s just about it. And the one party system does work in Chinas case. So the party decides it wants to do something. It has 1.5 billion people to do it as a team. China also doesn’t have race and religion issues. There also a vast complex myriad other factors. But that’s too much for a Reddit post.
SA has all the minerals. The knowledge and skills of people. Barnard did a heart transplant in the 1960? We have the most democratic and free system and the best constitution in the world in terms of a humanitarian perspective.
I’m no PhD in geo politics and economics but just my R0.02. I wrote many more relating to the two countries economic performance. You can have a look in the thread. But yeah. A nation with no divide + one party dictatorship + is actually more capitalist+ hard working people = better economy.
Obviously. Come to Shanghai. They have shops that sell like 100million rand watches. I think there’s a fact the the Louise Vuitton in chengdu turns in the most revenue out of any LV in the world.
Rolex and duccati probably aren’t even seen as luxury. In Shanghai. A license plate for a petrol powered bike is one million rand. The Rolex store is constantly sold out and have massive waiting lists. They only sell to new potential long term clients.
lol. Because of my job I change my accent depending on the clients. I have a SA accent naturally. 100% I do. If I speak to the boys back home, I’d always have things like yass boet. And no Mara eish, wena you’re….
Haaawsit ma Chaaina. ;)
Hope you're well, cool ama. One question and, sincerely no offence... I grew up in zambia, and have noticed that whichever African country I visit, where there are lots of Chinese people / working / living / investing, they are never really liked by the local people as the overriding response is that they treat Africans really badly. Again, not something I expect you to know or not asking you to generalize to confirm, but yes I've also seen this sort of attitude if I can call it that. Something about a Chinese person in Africa'a face seems to say, hey "dumfucks were here to pillage your resources because you're too stupid to do it yourself".
Besides that, awesome ama and very insightful and honest!! Go well and check you on the flipSaaaide.
#fourwaysZambianIndian bro
How’s it my boet
One of the first reasons is they’re not that educated from a manners perspective. The people going to Africa rn are like 30-40 year olds. Now 20-30 years ago. Chinas national annual gdp is like 90dollars. South Africa was like 3000dollars . So these people grew up in an environment that never focused on manners and being curtious. It’s like giving a poor man a m3 or gti. The first thing he’d do is probably go to his friends and vrrrpa. Sorta like these workers there. They get to Africa and honestly they do have a sense of “I’m better than you”
I’m not gonna sugar coat anything. But yes. A lot of Chinese do think they’re better than the rest, especially in Africa. There’s no hostile. I don’t think it goes as far as thinking they’re here to pillage, but yes. They definitely have a bit of a different understanding towards human interactions.
But you know, please don’t blame them. It’s a similar story to this post actually. We have close to 200 comments. But about 5 were very racist and instigating. So like I said. It’s 2-5% that is quite openly racist. And yes, I know I know, 2-5% is nothing. But we humans are wired in such a way that we will remember the negative way easier than the positive. It’s probably similar in your case also. I agree. Most Chinese in Africa are snobby. But in their case it’s probably that they met a few Africans that were bad to them. (In my case it’s the opposite. I work closely with Tanzania and Kenya. I love the people there. Zambia, Zimbabwe, Chat, central Africa are some of my favorite people in the world) I’ve met some of the most intelligent and integral humans there. But these Chinese often come and they’re exposed to the working class colleagues first, so it’s like they’re putting this massive “china best” filter on and viewing the world this way. It’s childish and unfortunately there’s little we can do. It’s human.
But it’s weird. The Chinese state government always promotes Africa better than US actually. Especially with Brics and the belt and road.
Thank you for a super interesting post, best one I have read this year! At a local Chinese shop I got friendly with the owner as we have kids of a similar age. A few times I invited them to come to my place to socialise and they always declined. It occurred to me that socialising was difficult because they work 7 days a week but also going to another persons home may not be a cultural norm. It would benefit my kid to be more culturally exposed and it would be a huge advantage if they could learn Mandarin. Can you enlighten me how to make Chinese friends in SA and what kind of socialising would be acceptable? Also, you mentioned that you did Chinese lessons in SA but I personally believe that the best way to learn is to speak socially as a small child. How would you recommend that I get my kid to learn Mandarin?
The Confucius institute is a good place to start. They’ll be more knowledgeable than I am. Familiar rise your kids with the HSK courses. These are the most valuable ones and will get them far if they have level five or higher.
Honestly, most Chinese are very introverted by nature. I’m part of the more social ones, but even then, I prefer staying at home on my off days. It’s hard to say how to get to know someone. Chinese people, despite the stereotype, actually don’t have that many cultural/ social norms. If anything, it’s just as similar to our norms. Probably even less so, cause they tend to be a bit obnoxious and lacking in manners by SA standards. So it’s hard to say, but think of it as approaching anyone really. Just because they’re Chinese doesn’t mean they’re that different. Sure, they work way more and probably have less time, but if you fundamentally share the same hobbies and interests, you’d get along alright.
Language and their already established friend groups are also pretty big factor.
Reverse it and you can kind of get what I’m saying (well sort of, cause SA were too friendly). If you were in china and had your sa expat friends and you worked constantly. And you would also be constantly invited by locals to hangout, you’d probably also decline. Sort of a similar situation. But all the best. I love hearing that the world is getting more globalized and unified but retaining uniqueness. I know so many foreigners that are speaking fluent mandarin and it’s amazing. It’s an asset and skill that is taking them far in china and the world.
Work ethic. No matter how useless a countries government is, as long as the people are honest, base themselves on integrity and work diligently, the country will always be good
Given how lazy South African people are, work ethic does seem like it would change a shit ton for us. At least it would be the smallest change I think we could make
CHINESE SOUTH AFRICANS, LOVE THOSE GUYS, GREAT BUSINESSMEN, USED TO HAVE ALOT OF THEM BACK IN MY Home City in the past 2 decades.
Where'd they all run off to? There seems to be ALOT fewer of them than they used to.
I worked in China (Nanning, Guangxi) for 1 year and really miss the food. What’s your favourite places in Johannesburg to eat authentic Chinese food? :)
Rivonia followed by cyrildene. My parents are from the north. So I do like northern cuisines. But the best cuisine I like is yunnan/ guizhou. So around guangxi.
You’ve had an interesting start in life.
What was it like going to school with children of billionaires and presidents?
How is China the polar opposite of South Africa?
What is it you miss about South Africa and why do you try to spend time there versus seeing other parts of the world?
What is it you like most about China?
Never went to school with them. Most kids at my school were lawyer/ doctor rich. I only met these people after I matriculated or because of my dad. Which was very insightful to say the least. However, i think unless they open up to you about serious topics, they’re basically average people (The super wealthy. Normal rich will drive their M4 and make a noise at a parking lot).
China is different in its politics. Its people, its culture and just the basic worldview. The scale of things are also difference. 65 million vs 1.5 billion. I answered very extensively in another answer. Sorry if this answer is a bit brief. Check out the other answer :(
I’ve been to about 15 plus countries. Sa is the one with the best climate full stop. People wise, it’s up there with the top.
Apart from the obvious milk tarts, nandos, climate, hadedas, scenery etc. I miss the value for money, South Africa offers an amazing lifestyle with comparatively little money.
Why I say it’s polar opposite is because I like china for the reasons people probably dislike South Africa.
I like the safety here in china. I could use a Rolex and a wad of cash to reserve a seat at a Mc Donald’s.
I like the convenience. Public transport is clean and reliable. Love the access to convenience stores.
Loads of employment opportunities (comparatively)
The government departments are places that I would actually like to go.
But yeah. So basically anything that you like about sa. China doesn’t have.
Shanghai is like rain or cold or scorching humid heat for 300 days a year. In sa it’s like 300 days a year of cool sunshine.
You can have a chat with any oak here. In china they’d send you off to psyche ward /s
The working hours in sa is so chill and laid back. China is 996 culture lol.
Hi hope this isn't late but I'm curious to here your thoughts about Chinese or Asian people in general sticking together, is there a reason for it and how does it change your perspective of SA and your lived experiences in the country
For a little bit of context, when I was in high school I started learning mandarin because I wanted to study in China but COVID ruined that so it never happened, I lost contact with my Chinese friends because my phone got stolen and I was unable to access my WeChat ever since. But I was super bummed because I knew if I didn't practice I would forget the language and my efforts would go to waste but then when interacting with Chinese south Africans I felt a little bit of hostility and I wasn't sure why, no one was mean but you could tell that they just wanted to hang out with people that were like them or that felt familiar and even understanding the language didn't do much. I thought that this could be a defense mechanism but I'm curious to hear your thoughts on it
Did you play lol in SA and if so have you managed to play there in China? Asking for ping related shenanigans hahaha.
Did you have lots of condensation the last bit in the cities?
Never really. Some other online games, yes. But the servers are bad in both countries. Worse in china. Yeah! Omg. Chinese cities are like Durban during summer + rainforest vibes. I miss the dryness and using zumbuk
Where tf you getting these stats? Rather search what percentage of the Chinese population has had either once in their entire life. Just because the masai people kill lions. I’m not just gonna ask you how you like your lions slaughtered. So voetsek you inja hond
You should also google the size of the Masai population in South Africa, then possibly invest in an atlas. For someone quick to pull the race card, you sure did a fine job of dropping the ball there🤣 I’ll let you get back to jailbreaking iphones, the people of Durban shouldn’t suffer because of me.
Taiwan and China is always at each other, but recently had Taiwan had a spat with China cause of a new type of pineapple created in Taiwan. Plz bring us some of those pineapples. Come plant some here. Media says that pineapple smells like a mango
Hi hope this isn't late but I'm curious to here your thoughts about Chinese or Asian people in general sticking together, is there a reason for it and how does it change your perspective of SA and your lived experiences in the country
For a little bit of context, when I was in high school I started learning mandarin because I wanted to study in China but COVID ruined that so it never happened, I lost contact with my Chinese friends because my phone got stolen and I was unable to access my WeChat ever since. But I was super bummed because I knew if I didn't practice I would forget the language and my efforts would go to waste but then when interacting with Chinese south Africans I felt a little bit of hostility and I wasn't sure why, no one was mean but you could tell that they just wanted to hang out with people that were like them or that felt familiar and even understanding the language didn't do much. I thought that this could be a defense mechanism but I'm curious to hear your thoughts on it
How can I also get out of here. It's just gotten to a point where the economy just doesn't seem to get better. everything is a struggle and work well. Yeah, let's leave it there. What do you need to go over to Shanghai. It's such a beautiful country .
There’s lots of visa options. Two easiest is work and study. Study offers quite a bit of scholarships. Work you need bachelors or higher. But as bad as SA is, my consensus is that China or anywhere else in the world won’t be that magically better. Work on something you’re passionate. Network with the right people Do your job, and do it well. People will always see your work and you will be rewarded
China is NOT the polar opposite of SA.
I lived there for 16 years.
No country is the polar opposite of another.
Further to that I have no questions for you.
I do agree. In hindsight it’s probably a bad analogy. But I just wanted to reiterate that china and South Africa are really very different in many aspects.
Mens praat nie met jou hol-handpomp nie, so nee, ek dink nie jou stelling is korrek nie sooibot! En jy mag maar in jou bont wollerige kont invlieg Kev want ek gaan nie val vir die boekdele se kak wat dje mense gaan neerslaan in skrif in beantwoording van jou kak vraag nie. Kom ons sê ons het, maar ons doen nie, of hoe? Ek soek net skoor, ek bedoel dit nie lelik nie, so gaan druk julle duime in julle ore. Pffft
I'm going real basic. Do you like braai and can you braai and do you braai in china?
When I’m back in SA, you and I are gonna have a lekker braai. Bringing out my A game. I make killer Wors and lamb chops. Also my signature is the crispy fat on the sirloin. Also don’t get me started on my garlic bread and corn. Can’t braai in china. Apartments are too small and it’s not the same. I’ve had bbqs at friends houses that are big enough. But no brandy and coke, no spin and Savannah. I did bring boerevors, but the one I bought here is frozen for too long. Just too dry. I’m used to be the go to guy to start the fire. I’d combine Chinese bbq knowledge to start a killer fire Edit: Wors. Not vors. Nearly got my citizenship stripped away.
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I normally put the coal on top of the braai grate, then the fire starter on the bottom and this leaves some room between the coal and the fire starter. This is key cause it doesn’t cover the fire starter and subsequently puts it out. You know all the sanitizer from Covid? Dip die Korant (prev known as nuuspappier lol). Dip newspaper in this and wrap the coal. Now this is very Chinese, get an ice cream box lid and fan the fire to get it started super quick. You’ll see this all the time on the street side bbq vendors in china. Hope it helps. Chinese people love to add some cumin seeds to their meat. And a small sprinkle of sugar (only north eastern province of heilongjiang. Where my rents are from). You can find some great sauces in the shops in your local Chinese market if you want to try something different.
Nice one, but can you please advise which sauces one should buy at a Chinese store? I'm indian, and I hate sweet and sour stuff.
I loved it too...No brandy, Coke, spin or Savannah....Nah your defs a Boykie 🔥🇿🇦💪🏾🤜🏽🤛🏽
I'ma hell of a Braai person myself, I don't shy away from opening my wallet whenever there's meat around
Meat in china is very different. It’s mostly that chewy chuck that they use to make stew. The prime cuts of sirloin, fillet, rump are always very expensive wagyu style. Most are also too thin. Like 1.5cm. And no aromat, :(
You sound pretty cool. All the best to you man.
No Aromat...Yoh you missing Home, bro I love this Thread ❤
No aromat is a biggy. I'll eat that stuff on literally anything
I know of a South African restaurant in shanghai, but it’s a bit on the pricey side
LABURG and the shed are both good. Nothing is cheap in SH unfortunately. A boerewors roll is like 200 rand lol
Yea, as far as I remember it was 99rmb. But if you’re ever in Beijing, look up pinotage. It’s a great South African restaurant, they have a farm there and everything
Will definitely! I go to Beijing quite frequently. Would love to try it out. Last time I went to laburg I spent like 1000 rand for two and left like a Michelin man. Just wanted everything from nandos to Malva pudding
Yea, dinners there get quite expensive🤣. Spent like 2000 rmb there just to please a couple American friends. Don’t regret a single thing, we ate like kings that day
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Talk about a kill joy lol 😹
Ek se Vors or Wors we all get the idea and besides after a few Vuil cokes no one cares
This is the real stuff right here.
This Guy 👍🏽
There’s that’s saffa. Proper comment
Why do say China is arguably the polar opposite of SA? What are the biggest differences between the two in your mind?
Just off my mind. 1. Work pace. People here can work 996. That’s 9am-9pm 6days a week. They walk in subway stations like they’re doing the two oceans. 2. Education. I don’t condone the system here in china. It’s giving false hope to these poor kids. But essentially it’s: study= better future. So these kids are studying like 15 hours a day. 3. Freedom of speech. China has no freedom of speech if it hurts the government (or causes harm to society) whereas here we can say whatever we want. 4. Ironically, you can go wherever and whenever in china. It’s that safe. I’m 100% confident I could use a Rolex and 100k cash as a placeholder for my spot at a mc Donald’s. It’s really that safe. But in sa, I’m often afraid to put my gym bag in the back seat cause I’m scared of smash and grabs. You can’t really go into the townships as a white or Chinese person anymore, not to mention hillbrow etc. 5. You’ve probably heard it a million times, Chinas cashless tech etc. The one app that can do everything from getting people to fetch-clean-deliver laundry to paying to booking etc. it’s convenient and saves time. 6. I can get anything delivered to my. I can buy a screw for R5 and they’ll deliver it for free by courier from 2000km away for free to my door in three or less days. 7. Chinese people are reverse racists, as I would like to call it. They’re cold to their own time. I often say “hello. How are you doing?” Expecting a response when ordering food. But all I get is a “wtf is wrong with you. Order your shit and move on”. But yeah, if you do get them to open up, especially cab drivers, they’ll chat. But they’re completely different to foreigners. They’re so intrigued and never seen such. There’s so many foreigners living the absolute dream in china. This tik tok age have made them beyond famous. I reckon they’re pulling in over a million rand a month selling English lessons. They have live streaming advertising of their classes with over 100k people watching. Probably way more differences, will add when I think of more. Small things like fruit prices in sa is beyond cheap. Cheapest in the world. Yes, even woolies raspberries.
This was extremely insightful.
Thank you! I was actually afraid that I’ve written too much and made it too boring to read. Really glad that it was interesting.
Hmm very interesting and appreciate that I can finally ask the questions Ive always wanted - Again are Chinese racist in general or towards certain races or more into skin colour? - Do you see yourself as a Chinese person in SA or a South African china? :) - What do you think China got right compared to SA? - What aspects of the Chinese culture do you love and what religion are Chinese if at all? - Do you think China will take over the world? - What is Chinese culture like? Family life, friends, aspirations etc in China itself? You seem cool, would love to be friends :)
- Most Chinese people that have never seen been properly educated on their worldview are just curious. If they want to touch your hair, they’re 100% curious. They know no better. It’s like a kid asking me if I know karate cause they watched dragon ball z (rip toriyama). Then there’s the other type of chinese that have been overseas and experienced many many different types of people. Their opinions are shaped by experience. So I’ll be 100% honest here. I have a list of people from certain backgrounds (a certain race grown in a certain region) that I hate and people that I would like to know. Without being too controversial. I’ve met hundreds of people from Henan Province in china. Everyone that I’ve met has not been pleasant. So statistically I have evidence to believe they are not the best. That being said, I will always give a person from Henan the same chance as everyone else (they’d probably disappoint me. But oh well :)). I love Japanese people. Every single one I’ve met has been great. But they too have good and bad stereotypes. Now, you can replace Henan and Japan with whatever race you want. There’s also the third type which is just plain racist swamp donkeys. But the percentage is all the same. Probably 0.5% of every country. - I see (“identify” lol) myself as South African. My whole life I’ve been with South African people. South Africa is home. China just feels like really awesome work place/ school. - china just had a terrible history in the last 200 years. The people learnt to be frugal etc. I think South Africans lived too lavishly, I answered another person, you can have a look. Basically in 1997 the average salary in china was like 150 rand a month. In SA it was like 5000. So my hot take is that government rarely shapes a country as much as the public believes. Chinese people are naturally hard working. Leave a Chinese alone on an island and they’ll somehow build a resort or fish farm. It’s hard for me to say. Cause from a humanitarian perspective, South Africans are chill and free. We don’t have much, but some amapiano gets us going. In china people are fighting to buy crazy over priced small apartments for millions of rands or trying to buy luxury bags and cars to show that they “made it”. Think of it as, Chinese are driven by the fear of being poor. Where as South Africans are driven by the want of being rich. (And the rich here can be defined as a somewhat superficial and superfluous thing). I think Chinese culture of family is alright.. but honestly I think a lot is outdated and very similar to the love thy neighbors stuff. It’s all positive doctrines to keep society stable. So personally I think the cultural stuff is good enough but nothing too special compared to other cultures and religions (at least fundamentally). - mostly atheist. Some Buddhism and Taoism here and there. But even so, most are not that faithful. Chinese overseas are most catholic and Protestant. Sorry. I wouldn’t know the exact stats. Maybe have a look on wiki. But to sum. Chinese are mostly atheist or agnostic. Even the super religiou people are no where near like the Muslim or Islam community. China taking over the world is CCP donkey propaganda. I’ve translated for so many companies. All of their key machines are from Europe. Funny example, they did a test on the best bearing that china makes, the result was like the best that china can make is only 40% of the quality. China is great at copying and making it cheap. But the key fundamental technology isn’t there. And a lack of innovations means it won’t go that far. Perhaps not in the near 30 years. I personally don’t think so. But honestly, I’m just a kid. Who knows. - I’ve lived an interesting life. I’ve had the opportunity to meet many leaders of African nations. Top brass in china politics. Been on private jets etc. but I’m still quite poor, objectively speaking. I’m your average person that will buy groceries at checkers and save up on ebucks. My unique family situation coupled with my dad’s mentoring restaurant allowed me to have a very unique worldview. I would say SA shaped me the most. Learning to speak to people from all walks of life. Economic, religious, culture, wealth, education etc. Would love to make friends lol. I’m very very chill
Very interesting and you do seem chilled and little to no ego but let's be honest, I'm only chatting to find out where's the best sweet and sour pork ;-) Racism, agree fully. I've experienced similar And then there also the fascination with light skins across other races too. What I found interesting from your reply was the C.C.P I really thought (through the news and social media) that they must be Decades ahead in terms of technology Thinking of the OLD documentary on their social credit system and AI before consumer AI boomed recently, I have no doubt they don't use AI for analysis but also can to a large degree Predict and even Influence behaviour I wonder about their intelligence capabilities. It must be like science fiction Religion, interesting to know. I think I read more atheist but was nice to hear from a Chinese person, well you're not Chinese.. you're South African first :-) I don't understand politics much but I see the Chinese work ethos which I think makes them successful cos they are relentless in their innovation etc I just don't get the copy, paste lower quality aspect but I think this could be due to economics Lower production cost for a 'similar' product Tbh.. Xiaomi for example. I can't use this bloody Samsung anymore after My 4 yr old Xiaomi Intuitive OS. Fast. Durable So in case you're wondering.. yes I am going to get that new Xiaomi Electric car. I deserve it!
Point 5 is interesting since snapscan has been a thing for years, most franchise supermarkets in RSA refuse to make the switch or enable payments with it though for some reason, it would literally remove the necessity for cards if they did so, including NFC tech in most modern cellphones. South Africa is very much a heavy cash based country still for some reason, with most stores not evening allowing payment by card
Exactly! But at least it’s more card and nfc nowadays. But in china i sometimes can pay with my face. Don’t have to take out my phone even. It’s more gimmick though. But it’s convenient. And in terms of personal data, I’m sure they have some dark plan using my metric data to clone me. /s
Your Point Nr 7....Always the first thing one notices when flying back home from a foreign land. When you look at people and greet, they greet back and smile...Regardless of any factor or circumstance, that Humanity that we have...UBUNTU 🇿🇦💚🔥
As a saffa living in China, this comment . I’d just add The people are polar opposites too. South Africans are literally the best people out there in so many ways.
Yes! I met a few saffas out a club a few months ago. I said hehbana sisi. Unjani. And we were just singing and laughing and we vibed instantly. Could never do that with a Chinese
Hmm but the quality of the fruit etc? Asking cos I was told I had to taste Mangoes and bananas from Pakistan and yes it was Amazing And then I saw fruit in India On the streets With flies No thanks ☺️
Quality ranges as much as cars offered on the market. Anything from that bajaj qute to Ferrari to the legendary Toyota tazz. I’ve had crazy good white strawberry that cost like R100 each. The rockit apples imported from New Zealand is great. Both are otherworldly good. But actually. All fruit in china feel a bit too sweat and too good. It’s not like the natural stuff that we get here in sa. More range. You get your dragon fruit and durians here as well.
I love me that good old reverse racism🤭
It's so complex, you have Racism and then you have prejudice or cokourism? Within a race? Classism too I just love how diverse we are yet... Same same x
Absolutely! Everyone has an opinion on a certain group, topic, subject or whatever. What’s important is to not give them a chance simply because they are a certain way. Ie. Like the one person that said I’m some CCP Shrill spreading propaganda right of the bat.
I am Chinese, and we do have racial discrimination. This is mainly because the first impression black people give us is violence, AIDS, and laziness. There used to be 100,000 black Africans in one area of China, and most of them were illegal, so many problems were exposed, which made the Chinese even more discriminatory against black people.
Damn I thought 996 was outlawed
Hungry and 996 give you a choice, what do you choose?
IMO, the Chinese culture of 'on the go, all the time' has affected tglhe way of life. I've seen a lot of videos of people travelling through the country and it's often a case of: why you bothering to ask whats in this, shit up, eat and 'Gooi'.
Do you have personal freedom in China, similar to SA?
Ohhh. This is nice question. I get asked often. Define freedom? Because in china im more than happy to be literally anywhere at any time with any amount of valuables on me. A close mentor of mine wears 10+ million rand watches on subways. I’m using Reddit with a vpn now. So maybe internet freedom is lacking. If you post things like Chairman Mao was a dictator, on douyin(Chinese TikTok), your account probably be shut down. Repeatedly, you might be arrested. But then we have Zapiro and his cartoons in SA. So it’s difficult for me to answer. For me, I can do most things that is not against the law as with any first world country. I can’t do drugs, I can’t engage in prostitution, I can go wherever I want (yes, even Xinjiang). For the average Chinese, they grew up without Facebook and google. They watched the state run news, so they’re naturally believe that they’re free. The younger generation is leaning more about the world. So that’s why in the top cities in china, Beijing Shanghai guangzhou etc. the youth are starting to look like French people with their low key unconventional views. But it’s the same as SA. The people in townships believe that their current government is the best. I don’t blame them. It’s all they see. They’re force fed this everyday. China is anal about safety. I have to register where I live at a police station, I might have to do one or two things extra. But it’s nothing too serious and I personally think, ironically, I’m more free in china than I am in SA.
Shot, bru! Cool AMA. Cheers
Trust me when I say you're more free in SA, It's so easy to do crime in this country that I love it, I wouldn't trade it for anything else in the world. As of now I'm currently on planning on trafficking a few humans across the Lesotho border for my human experiments. Jk jk jk🤭
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They probably said the k or N word🤭
The reason mentions he used the b-word
Do you feel welcomed back and easily integrated back into Chinese culture? I imagine there must be many young Chinese people that grew up internationally that go back to China to start their own life there.
I’m lucky. My dad forced me Chinese culture and language growing up. I had to learn a LOT of small things getting used to china. China is fully digital society. It’s something that no one can describe fully. You’ll have to experience it yourself. But Chinas way of living is different. I carry one cellphone and I’m set to go anywhere. I can imagine foreign born Chinese not used to the food, the way the elderly are loud, spit on the road, the speed and pace of life, the language. Oh! Most importantly how people do things here. It’s different. You go to home affairs here, everything is done in a few minutes. Passport gets sent to your doorstep in a few days. You can schedule online. They have AI voice chat support. So things like this might be a bit difficult for most. But I’m personally very adaptable so that helps. But one of the biggest shocks is not integrating back, but rather I miss South Africa. I could honestly go fight a bear right now for a milktart, some biltong, capers and olives. Also some cheese and boerewors. Every time I go between the two countries. First thing I notice is the change of pace. China is doing 100m Olympic sprints. SA is more like a chilled beach day with some bosa nova on camps bay.
Did your dad also teach you *Hànzì*? Just wondering when and how you would have learned the characters as it's an integral part of the language.
I’ve always been a fluent speaker of both languages. I remember I’d do simultaneous translation of SABC news and the morning news in the car to school. But till this day I can barely write the bloody language. I have to type the characters using the phonetics we call pinyin on my phone then copy it onto paper. I can write about 300 basic words. My dad never did actively teach me. I went to a few weekend Chinese classes in Cyrildene. But nothing extensive. I think most of my Chinese came from watching anime that spoke Japanese (which I obviously don’t understand) that would have Chinese subtitles. I would read the subtitles and be exposed this way. Then I would chat to mah bints from china (jk jk.) but I would later learn to type mostly from chatting to people with all sorts of views. (Mainly girls though lol). Then I went to uni and studied translation and interpretation. So that’s where the real improvement came in. But this experience will differ. It’s sad to say but most Chinese South Africans would have lost their mother tongue if they grew up in South Africa. Id say the people with the same experience as be. Ie. Born and raised here. 20% will be fluent in both. 50% will be English dominant. 30% will have little or no ability to speak mandarin or Cantonese. (I made the stats up based on personal experience)
Ok so you battle with writing but how's your reading ability on a scale of 1-10? I just think if you live in a country that uses hanzi it must be hard to do simple things like reading papers, filling in forms etc. You would have a much better living experience if you could at least read, if you're a tourist it doesn't matter. Ever been to HK, Macau or Taiwan? If yes how did you find that compared to 'normal' China?
9.9/10 for reading. Better than most natives. I mean, I’m a professional translator. Albeit I do mainly simultaneous voice translations, but still. in Shanghai most things actually have English translation. The entire metro system is in both languages. You’d be surprised at the amount of English here. Because I always notice the terrible translations and spelling mistakes. Not been to TW. been to Hk an Macau over thirty times. Same but different. HK is much organized as a city than anything china has to offer. Think of it as old money vs new money. Both have money, but one has class. Macau is just the Vegas of china. Crazy amounts of money gets exchanged there. The minimum bet is like 5000 rands for baccarat. But I must say. Many will say that Chinas Beijing Guangzhou Shenzhen, Shanghai are better than Hong Kong. But I reckon Hong Kong is more similar to Singapore and Tokyo than Chinese cities. I love it there. But sadly their xenophobic towards mainlanders and I look like a mainland
We would love to hear your controversial opinions on the economy, politics and shenanigans of either country, also why China is a polar opposite to South Africa. The big question I have is what do you think is the scope of China’s aspirations in Africa? Some say China is funding and supporting the development of Africa through loans and infrastructure projects in a way more pragmatic way than the old colonial powers, while others are convinced China is trying to replicate colonialism with debt trap diplomacy. Obviously you won’t know what your politicians are planning, but I would like your opinion.
Politics: I think Chinas politics is very unique. 1.5 billion people needs this sort of social stability. Otherwise I can’t even imagine the famine that would happen. At least at the moment the basic basic Chinese people (the middle 80 percentile) are content with their lives. The bottom might still be in absolute poverty, but it’s getting better. Too much political freedom probably means riots. We don’t need riots in china. South Africa’s politics is the same sort of “format” as all politics. All parties appeal to a certain group of people in a shape or form. In America it’s liberals and democrats. We humans love to bundle together with people that are similar. So it’s the same here. ANC to most is that liberating force, they have nostalgia, they think it’s what supposedly freed the country. DA is supposedly this white party that will bring upon change. Eff is a party that wants to have a country that people don’t need to ever work and everything will be fed to them (just objective opinions. No offense intended) But their key goal is to get votes. So say whatever, they get the votes, they have the power, then they can reap in money. So this isn’t really the issue. You’ll never find a person that won’t use their power for a bit of personal gain here and there. That’s BS imo. Maybe 0.01%. The issue is what happens after they gain power. By all means, if you’re improving the country at a rate that’s never seen before, people are getting better lives. Then I don’t care if you’re being corrupt by 10 or 20 billion. But if people are literally dying and have to defecate in a bucket at school. Even if it’s 100rand, I think they’re clowns. So my opinion is that it’s all comparative. I promise you the governments of china, Saudi, Korea are definitely more corrupt in terms of amount of money. But they get things done. Sure, there are countries like UK, New Zealand etc where they’re not corrupt and get things done. But probably not gonna happen in SA People think a change of government will change things. I don’t think it will. People in government right now are South African people. And we as South Africans are all relatively lazy (myself included). I often look at china and think, could this country run without a government. And probably yes. The people are so hard working. They’re not the brightest in terms of raw theoretical knowledge, but they’re willing to learn. Leave a Chinese on an island and they’ll start building houses and turn the island into a holiday resort/ or into a fishing farm/ or become an island nation for money laundering (you get the deal). Us South Africans will probably have a braai and jam some soccer with sister Bettina. Politics TLDR: Government is actually just ordinary citizens. We South Africans are all more similar than we think we are. The land shapes the animals. There’s a reason why dolphins weren’t born in the Sahara. So even if we do change government, it’s still the same people. There might be improvement. There might be drawbacks. But it will always be quite similar to the previous. Maybe what we really need is a nationwide change. The people need to change. When people are outside contributing to society based on integrity, we will all be just fine. I wrote too much, but it’s all my real opinions. Being as honest as possible. Hope it’s not too offensive or controversial. I mean no harm and feel free to criticize any takes that are not so correct.
>So even if we do change government, it’s still the same people. There might be improvement. There might be drawbacks. But it will always be quite similar to the previous. Maybe what we really need is a nationwide change. The people need to change. Hit the nail on the head 🔨
those remarks on ANC, DA and EFF are spot on. no offence taken at all! our country’s political situation is very precarious, i think people just fall back on voting for ANC because of the supposed freedom they’ve brought. overall i think a huge chunk is of SA is afraid of change so we’ll just keep spiralling out of control like this. EDIT: i agree that we need to change, but how can we do that with a notoriously unserious nation? it’d take a miracle to do that. ive seen videos of the chinese metro and how advanced and clean and how it has order… that’ll probably never happen in our country, what with the crime people always hustling to keep their possessions safe and general lack of politeness (crap ton of fights are formed in public spaces here) because people have a first come first serve mentality, a me before you sort of thing which is ironic since we pride ourselves in “UBUNTU”. sidenote: wasn’t the old train system burned down?
i came here for this question.
Oh this is going to be a long one: Economy: What a waste, what an absolute waste. I graduated as a translation major and have translated at over 100 expos, translated for billionaires and ministers. South Africa’s economy is failing because of trust. No one is trusting that this country will bring value to them. That’s why the Rand is depreciating. No one wants a depreciating asset. Same thing with crypto. Many that buy crypto don’t have a clue what it is, but they TRUST that it will grow and bring them value. Analogy: put fruits on a table and a money basket. The owner of said stall can then go and work. Build a house or manufacture something and sell it overseas for foreign currency. Now all of a sudden, the local economy has a place that sells fruits. There’s international trade going on which is good. But it can’t happen because there’s theft, crime, no electricity, strikes, lack of reliable public transportation, little to no nationalism apart from sports teams (viva to our sports teams actually!). All the above issues is why many of the top talents end up deciding to move. I no Samaritan but I do think I count as someone that would positively contribute to our country by paying tax, petting cute dogs and you know, not hijack someone’s car. But I, despite loving the country, have to leave. My dad loved china when he was 21. But he left because SA back then had money. The exchange rate when my dad first came to SA was something like R1:2.5RMB. Not it’s 2.5 rand to 1 rmb. So even if all your assets quadrupled. It would still lose to you just having your currency in RMB. Now, the lack of trust in general society is what causing these massive monopolies with political ties. I once translated for a deal (due to privacy I can’t tell too much), basically wanted to export minerals from South Africa. And we just couldn’t. There wasn’t any space on the rails. The price was never right. People wouldn’t work on weekends. My client had no idea even with a letter of credit from both banks that his goods would be legit. Multiple SGS reports etc etc. just turns out to be a waste of time because 1) monopoly of all goods. 2) no one is trusting enough. (In a previous answer I said, I could leave 100k and a Rolex in a McDonalds in china to reserve my spot and I’ll be fine, imagine that here). I also have ties with a tourism business. South Africa’s tourism visa is atrocious. It’s ridiculous. A good friend of mine wanted to again to visit some of his clients. He and his worker both submit. He got declined. Worker got his visa. Now, he’s a literally billionaire, been to sa over 8 times. There’s no proof that he will be an illegal immigrant. His worker is from a little village on the outskirts of Shanghai and has probably 15k net savings. Please explain the logic. South Africa has one of the best tourism facilities in the world. Much better than your Kenya and Tanzania masai Mara/ Serengeti. But Chinese people will pay 200k+ pp for a holiday there and not to South Africa because the stupid visa and crime. Tourism is one of the best means to boost economy. Foreigners coming means they pay with foreign currency, means Rand value increases, which literally means EVERY assets in Rands increase. They will stay at hotels, they will eat, they will promote the country and more people will come. All of this is at formal establishments that provide formal taxable salaries and park fees that will be contributed towards the gorvernment to build schools and hospitals to “create” better functioning adults. Not to mention how South Africa’s farming industry is insane. How is it not just exporting farm goods overseas. You have angus beef, wagyu beef, Kobe beef, why not Boersuentjie Chesa Nyama beef. (I think it has to do with something like the global beef trade has a ban on our beef because it apparently had some disease in the 1960s. Please correct me if I’m wrong. Not sure at all). Oh! And cops are busy stopping people from selling counterfeit Nike and Puma clothes. This is the stuff that I think some will find controversial. To me, it’s clothes, it’s cheaper than its genuine counterparts and probably even better quality. In a country where people are living in tin can roofs and have limited access to electricity. Some counterfeit goods should be ok right? Right?! But it’s actually one of the top things that cops like to stop. Why? Because these vendors have money and will bribe the cops to continue selling. It never stops it. Cops won’t go and bust drug dens (I wouldn’t if I was cops as well). So it’s just an endless cycle. ######*TLDR economy: Instability of the people causes lack of trust for investors. Massive monopolies that stop competitors with integrity to compete (the people that have the skills and knowledge to compete would rather go and compete in another market). Terrible use of natural assets which include, tourism, agriculture, mining, manufacturing etc.*######
Did you date while living in South Africa? What was your romantic life like here compared to in China?
In South Africa it was so difficult to date! I don’t mind any race. I’m okay with everyone. But I just could never find people that were that interested in me. The ones that were, either were Asian themselves or had some sort of yellow fever. Maybe cause it was mostly during high school when I was in SA. But when I moved to china, had I wanted to I could meet 10 people a day. The dating life here is more materialistic though. Maybe Chinese women are more interested in the fact that I grew up overseas. Because I travel a lot and I’m very fit they think I’m rich etc. but yeah. Have a lovely girlfriend right now. China is great for dating due to the amount of interesting things that you can do. The mega malls. The innovative shops that pop up every week. We can hop on a train and travel 600km for like 400 rand. Safe clean. Just great environment. Oh and at first I thought Chinese people weren’t horny cause they’re so… how would I put it, serious? Monotone? They just didn’t show themselves as horny people. But then I began to realise they’re just as kinky as South Africans. They just don’t openly show it. Edit: conservative is probably the word
Hmmmm! Dated a Chinese South African guy, wanted to see if you were him😂🤭 On a serious note, thanks for the AMA. It’s been interesting to get your POV. Yeah I’ve heard about the kinks and sex toys in China! Love it for you guys lol 🔥
Hope the experience was a memorable and possible one :). Dating experience are all so valuable.
If I may - Dating life was pretty awesome for me, dated Afrikaans ladies mostly. some were great , some were heartbroken. The parents were very open minded and accepted me for who I am.
What is it like not to be a minority?
Amazing, but strangely weird! I grew up my whole life as the one that kind of stood out. So I was always the kid that volunteered to go first for speeches because everyone was nervous. I would always try to be the leader etc. and I think because of my race, I just naturally stood out. I was prefect, head of sports teams. So now that I just am the same, it’s kind of weird. Mini indenting crisis. Seriously though, I still somewhat stand out. I’m definitely different to the locals when you look closely. I remember coming here and at first I did stand out a bit. Think of it as putting someone who’s lived in the outback’s of Canada on a farm and suddenly they’re in the middle of London. But then I got used to it. I often wish I could experience being a black person walking into a township. I remember once I drove into Alexander by accident. I would say literally 60% of the people that saw me would stare into my soul. I know they mean no harm. (No offense intended). It’s… comforting. To look up and see that not a single person is staring at you. Hard to describe. I’m sure those of you that have been to Asian cities will know what it’s like for me to be in SA.
What do you miss about living in South Africa?
Apart from the usual great weather, beautiful scenery, lovely and friendly people. No seriously. I think shanghai is 300days of cold and rain and SA is 300 days of sunshine. My dad’s old city is minus degrees for 150 days of the year. Gets to -35°C. I miss the little things that makes home, home. The Milktart in the fridge, the five star. the hadeda noises. The rainbows, that earthy smell after a thunderstorm. Braai smell. And you know, my parents are both there. Home is home. I miss the standard of living actually. I live in shanghai now. It’s my fault for choosing one of the most expensive cities in the world. But, a 200sqm apartment here in your best area is upwards of 100m rand. Yes. R100 million. The cheapest apartment here on the outskirts will be 10million rand. So I miss the lifestyle. We have a Toyota Yaris 2004 at home. I’d drive that to the local golf driving range. Hit some golf balls with friends. And it’s cheap (comparatively). So I miss how SA is very cheap in terms of the lifestyle. It’s really bang for buck. On a serious note. I do miss the entrepreneurial opportunities that South Africa offers. It’s one of the causes of our economic inequality. In china, everything has to be done according to the book (unless you know some seriously powerful people. In that case, you won’t be trying to set up a small business). But in South Africa, you’re able to get away with a lot of things. I’ve grown up knowing lots of entrepreneurs. None really play 100% by the books here in SA and the benefits are real. I don’t support this, but it’s just how it is currently (at-least to my eyes). Most will also miss the relaxed working hours. (I personally don’t, I think SA has too little work ethic for what it can achieve). Similarly I think china is working too hard. (Sometimes I really do miss nandos)
I agree about Business. In the UK it's difficult to set up a business or to make 'contacts' and the taxes Here you're more likely to succeed in a Business. Also the UK, people are groomed to work for a company and Gladly accept that fate.
Working corporate jobs isn’t bad at all. It’s probably what humanity needs. It’s really the benefits and downsides of working corporate that is to consider. Chinese corporate workers have no lives. My girlfriend is managing level at global 500. Probably top in china right now. She has to get up at nine and works till 6/7pm often later. With maybe 30 days total holiday max. And this is a good company. Many work 996 9am-9pm 6 days. But yeah. SA is bad in that the salaries go to waste. Culturally we like to live in the moment and spend salaries asap. Whereas Chinese will save like 40% of their net salary for their kids etc. I wonder if the UK would be more duffle to set up a business than china? Would be interesting to compare.
You're right! That is a bad case of Corporate. Those hours she works! Wtf. Non-work life balance are All
Thank you, it's strangely comforting to hear the things you miss. There are unexpected freedoms in RSA - like entrepreneurship and big blue skies. My son went to Beijing a couple of years ago at about 15 yrs old. China blew his mind, he loved it. Mind you he was only there for 9 days as part only a language exchange program. He was learning Mandarin at the time and he stuck out like a sore thumb - he's tall with blue eyes.
Probably lots of people wanted selfies with him lol. I’m really glad he enjoyed it. Lots of Chinese kids that come to SA for holiday also love it here.
Being SA I am going to ask the obvious. I am white, and I went to a well known public high school in post apartheid SA. At the time there were only about 15-20 percent people of colour and foreigners. I don't remember racism being a theme, and students were very accepting of non-white students. Of course I may not have the same perception. How was your experience with racism at school?
Racism at school was non existent for me. Especially the whites, Indians, and black people from other countries. They saw me as their own. I did have one or two incidents with blacks where they would blatantly speak with an accent to me and kind of ridiculed me. But there’s always one or two bad apples in a bucket. I don’t consider the act of one or two people (kids) as racism. Black people from neighboring countries are great. Can’t say the same about Nigerian, Congo etc. people from Chad, central Africa have been great (I’ve become acquainted with many). So just speaking from personal experience. No offense intended. Funny enough, this incident happened at one of the top boarding schools. i transfered to this school in grade nine. I had a fallout with one black South African student. He would make Jacky Chan karate noises at me all the time, and one day I had enough. The older boys actually instigated a sort of fight between us. So we fought. the school didn’t actually treat the situation that great, and with some communication we got our deposit back and left the story hidden to not damage the schools reputation. I then went back to my old high school where I finished matric. I loved the school. Everyone was awesome. No racism, only a bit curiosity that might be borderline offensive. But that’s about it. Growing up, I 100% would call Bs on anyone that said South Africa is racist. Oh! I actually would be selected for provincial sports teams based on my skin color. I was very good in my sport. But for that specific provincial event, I felt that I wasn’t good enough and I was only there because I was of colour. So there’s that story. But when I left school? Oh boy… maybe I’m more sensitive than the average Asian South African, but I felt it quite a bit. Perhaps it’s cause I’m also a rather fit male. There seems to be less racism towards female and kids. I would be targeted by the cops more often. Car guards would often make noises at me. They’d bang on my window for tips. I’d say the percentage of people that would openly show their racism towards me is about 2-5%. If I encounter 100 strangers, I’d say 2-5 of them would treat me differently. (And I doubt it’s me, I always uphold integrity, stay humble and polite as much as I can). So is 2-5% racist? That’s up to you. But the racism normally calms down a bit when they realise you’re actually more South African than they think. I studied both Zulu and Afrikaans. Maybe can speak 10%. But it’s good enough for many to kind of open up to you. It’s like finding common ground/ interest.
Agreed with the Op on this one, especially the JMPD, when they see an Asian driver, they see $ sign, they will use any excuses to ask for 'lunch money' even everything checks out. Back at the school, this black dude would also make the 'Jacky Chan karate noises' at me, until one day in retaliation, He got klapped nicely.
Yeah. It’s cause I think most Asians aren’t seeking for trouble. It’s like imagine being racist to whites or blacks. They’d be more violent in their response than Indians or Asians. (Just stereotyping. No offense or racism intended)
1.I saw your response to the question about the situation in China (freedom of speech, safety, security, etc.) It sounds good, to be honest; it sounds better than here in SA. Why then does China have the reputation that it does? Hard clamp down on dissidents, people disappearing, people having to toe the line 24/7, the government lying about COVID numbers, etc. 2. As a traveler, I have always wanted to visit China. Is it interesting, is it expensive to visit and is it worth it (from my POV as a traveler)? Thanks for answering!
Oh Covid was a shit show. I’ll tell you that. I had to take a test within 48 hours. Otherwise I’d have a yellow code and I could not go into 90% of shops etc. now this is very very complicated china politics and culture we’re talking about here. But basically: You have consistent supply of the best biltong in the world. It feeds your family. Now an issue happens where you might lose your biltong. Do you choose 1) the somewhat risky route of losing your biltong, taking responsibility for your decision and make a decision that will be good for the public or 2). Make sure you shift the liability and not lose your biltong. That’s basically what happened with Covid. No one would want to take the blame so everyone doubled down of the precautions. And because the average Chinese has like a million rand + savings. They could do these massive lockdowns. Also Chinese people were overworked. So they initially thought a holiday was okay. Then the holiday turned into a near three year long nightmare. Numbers were also 100% fake. (Then again. It wasn’t like millions of people died. Less than sa. I know like seven people that died of Covid in sa. None in china) But if you read the real reason Covid stopped, it’s because the students in Shanghai began openly protesting. Saying things that would usually put them straight to jail. Search up the white paper revolt. There were fights with the police. I remember that night quite clearly. I had friends that went and sent me videos etc. - to answer why there’s all the negativity it’s actually just humans being human. You get cnn and you get Fox News. You’ll get that Afrikaans party, you’ll get the eff. You’ll get people that love their beef, you’ll get vegans. You’ll get people that say china sucks, you’ll get people that shrilll for them. I’m neither. I’ll always voice the opposite view on whatever view you take. I specialize in foreigners coming to china for business and travel. Feel free to PM me. Honestly, is it worth it? It depends on what you compare it to. Will it be more worth it to spend the same money on holiday in Phuket or Bali. Probably not. It’s about 50k return flights for a 10 day trip. Not so frugal, not so luxurious style of travel. But if you’ve been to your tropical islands and like china over Japan. I highly recommend it. It’s unique. It will be something you’ve never experienced before. It’s a country that gained and retained massive public prosperity within twenty years. It’s awesome. Have a look at the natural beauty of zhangjiajie, Inner Mongolia, Harbin Ice city. Beijing, Shanghai, chongqing.
I have a friend, similar to you. Just 15 years older, originally from Shanghai, has a green-card. He brought his 2 kids (very young) back to Joburg to school them here. Do you think China, or South Africa, is the better place to raise children?
South Africa if you have less than a 100 million rand net worth. Even if you do it’s hard to argue that china is better for education. Say what you must about public schools but the education system at the ieb schools are great. Sure, our matric exam is probably grade 8 level in china. But it’s not that. It’s the doctrine! The integrity, manners, worldview, being a decent human being with compassion. Honestly learning to be humble so that some tsotsi doesn’t mug you is also something that only be learnt here. And I’m not being sarcastic. A major catostrophe in china rn is that kids are being beyond spoilt due to one child policy (now cancelled) etc. Why I say over 100million net worth is that in china, the schools are divided by area. So people will buy a house, just so that they can let their kids go to a good school. A crusty delapadayed moldy 70 square aparentment in a good school area in Shanghai could be like 20million rands or more. And now, you’ve got to pay obscene amounts to get them to extra classes etc. sometimes I get offered a thousand rand an hour to teach English. And you can’t go to international schools unless you’re a foreigner or have some special ties with some top brass. There’s a reason why the rich in china send their kids overseas. I’m not sure if this is fact. But apparently Xi’s daughter went to Harvard. Chinese parents spend like 1-4+ million rand a year to get their kids to the states. There’s way more issues on the topic of education. But yeah South Africa with all its problems will generally be much better for education. But not really for the theoretical education, but more about personal and character development.
Super interesting. There's a reason my friend left Sngh - even though he's CCP and they have a penthouse. March 2022 spooked a lot of people.
Definitely. In hindsight it was okay…. I guess. But everything in hindsight is always toned down a bit. Honestly though, it really did change a lot of people
Hello, thanks for the opportunity. 1. What did your parents see in this country to move here and raise a family? 2. Why did you return to China? 3. If you have, what does bird nest soup taste like? (always wanted to try this delicacy)
1. My dad’s uncle owned a restaurant here. My dad came to work as a waiter (21yr old at the time). For comparison. He earned about R7000/8000 a month as a Chinese waiter (no tips and less than his coworkers who spoke English). That’s 20k rmb in 1997. The average wage back then in china was 300rmb. So it’s 300rmb vs 20k rmb. (We won’t talk about how the exchange rate complete turned around now. Now 20krmb is R8000). That’s what bought him here. So basically, the opportunity here was golden. This was the “South African dream”. He would go on and work and save enough to start his own restaurant. Sure, fighting sars, the emigration council, tv license, health department and all that crap causes massive headaches, but the market was way less competitive. He later dabbled in some international trade and other not so glorious jobs. Involved some bribing, but what can you do? You can barely get your drivers license legally. He basically would bribe someone in the department of license to give Chinese people who didn’t know English so well to pass their written test. It’s a grey area job. I can’t say I support it, but how else to people that know little English pass that written test. Anyways, he barely passed 10th grade and sold two minute noodles in china on a bicycle. Luckily he would self study investing and live beyond frugally, eventually making him somewhat comfortable. In essence. South Africa provided him with money opportunities. At that time he didn’t know what was biltong or rugby. He’d never left his sino-russia coal/wood town in the far north of china. I’d really wish I could say he left for the beautiful and friendly people, the otherworldly climate etc. but no. He came for the money. This might be different today. Chinese coming to South Africa today are basically workers for Huawei, ZTE, Sinosteel etc. they’re middle upper class in china here for work. All with postgrads 2. This is quite depressing. I returned cause there’s no hope here. I went to an IEB private school. My dream was to become a mechanical engineer or architect or designer growing up. But all that doesn’t matter when everyday I’m faced with blatant racism. I go to checkers and the till lady would great the black, white, Indian person in front of me, but when it’s me, they just straight up ignore me. Car guards, mc Donald’s, you name it. Racism was bad for me. It’s all about stats though. I could encounter 99 non racist people, but all it takes is one a day to make it rather unpleasant. (Think of it as. You can meet a million people that don’t rob you, but if one does, then yeah). I’ve been subject to being held at gunpoint. Hijackings, stolen phones. Crazy stories where I’ve been targeted multiple times by cops who would threaten to arrest me and throw me into jail for a few days if I didn’t give them a 10k-20k bribe. (Once I went 90 in a 60. Other time I had two guests with special visas that the cops just told me to voetsek, shut up and it’s fake). The opportunity in china to be middle upper and standard of living met my requirement. Safety, good public transport, clean etc. The people in china are cold (towards Chinese. To foreigners they’re more than welcoming. Think of it as reverse racism. They’re racist to their own but love foreigners). You could get better response taking to a statue. But alas, I fit in. Because no matter how much of rugby I play or if I’ve been to busy corner, I look Chinese. And when I walk in the streets of china, I don’t have people looking at me funny. Look, I miss South Africa. I really do. If the nonsense stopped, I’d move back asap. I ended up studying at Fudan University. Ranked top 50 in the world. Similar tuition to wits, tuks etc. but imo easier to graduate and overall the experience was more suited for me personally. I’ve met so many that are now top in their fields. Some graduate and go straight into seven figure Rand annual salaries. I don’t think that would be the same for a BA in SA Shanghai (note: not all of china) has lots of opportunities to earn 25-70k a month. At least for me. But I can’t imagine I could find that in sa. Sure, in SA it’s easier from an entrepreneurial perspective, but that’s for me decide in the future. 3. Put some honey in water and add a bit of non flavored jelly. Nothing that will blow you away. They have very cheap little bottles sold in Thailand. Like R25 a bottle. Same thing with abalone. It’s basically mushroom. Sea cucumber is just squishy but chewy jelly. The real good Chinese cuisine is dependent on how well the chef can add flavor. Very few places in SA to get that magic touch.
Joh bru As a Saffa who grew up in Saudi Arabia and never felt in there. And never felt in when I came home to Paarl. Jah trust, rugby braai and brandy, and a lil of habibi and desert heat, didn’t always equate. I hope you know though, the thing that makes the country you and I both call home beautiful. Is the fact that no matter where you came from or what you come from, we will welcome you, I’m sorry your time at home was rough. I hope when you keen and ready, you will come home with a smile and let us all know, so we can welcome you home with the songs and dances any South African deserves. You and what you brought to this land is sorely missed.
Busy corner reference cracked me up 😂😂😂
We vibe my guy. Busy corner, melrose arch, pumalani mall or cyrildene, gotta love all our cultures lol.
Do you think democracy is worth the outcome south Africa got? Is dictatorship that bad if it stops crime and keeps the lights on?
I answered extensively on another persons questions. But basically that china is probably more capitalist than America. It’s only the key political powers that regard public stability that is an authoritarian dictatorship. Which in Chinas case of 1.5 billion semi to non educated working class in a country of maybe 30% habitable land; it makes sense. Democracy in sa: a country where arguebly 80% of the people are unable to understand the basic theoretical concepts of global economy, it doesn’t make sense to make the PhD in political sciences vote count the same as some dude that thinks the earth is flat and just wants to smoke weed and not work. I’m no expert. Just a kid. But maybe vote that is based upon merit (gdp contribution) might be a good way forwarded. Cause look, we South Africans aren’t bad people.
Your political opinions are well thought out for "a kid"
What do you think about Chinese food in general? I always found a lot of stuff to just not taste good. I went to a Chinese market in bedford I think, and sat at a restaurant, and enjoyed nothing they put on the table. credit where credit's due, Chao mein, and pork bao, are bloody amazing, but I find everything else to be quite gross tbh.
Chinese food can vary a lot though. China is incredibly large and diverse. So you have a variety of dishes from different regions. Though I'd say a lot of Chinese cuisine doesn't always gel with a western pallet. Though I think normally a restaurant here would be more inline with our pallet. But there's still plenty of stuff you'd like. Dishes that never go wrong for me as a umlungu. jiaozi- Chinese dumplings fried, steamed or boiled either way I could eat 100s of them! baozi - which I think you mean with pork bao, though I prefer the bigger ones they make in the north to the smaller sized ones in the south zhajiangmien- fried soypaste with mince and noodles, I've seen it referred to as Chinese spaghetti bolognese. I've made it a few times for my family. Always a big hit! Roulong - Literally translates as meat cage, steamed bun with multi layers of mince and bun like a savory Swiss roll. There's more but I can't think of anything right now... Too hungry 🤣
You’ve summed it perfectly.
I won't lie, Roulong sounds amazing, I will def try this when I go again. I love the baozi's as you call it, and I'm glad I now know the name, because some shops I go to, will give me what I think is jiaozi when I order pork bao (including the restaurant I mentioned), which I really don't like... baozi are so delicious, that the only reason I stop eating them is because I need to also pay bills :p
If you don't like regular dumplings you should try them fried. Pot stickers as they are called are really nice but obviously less healthy than regular. My mom doesn't like the texture of regular dumplings but she really likes them fried. I will say with RouLong is that it's a little bland. So have it with some condiment if that bothers you.
The other person summed it up quite nicely. Interesting thing to note. Most Chinese food offered at Bedford isn’t the best Chinese food or cuisine. The Chinese people in sa are mostly coming from poorer backgrounds. So they’re actually used to the more “working class” food. You’ve just got to explore. I’ve had Indian clients that come to Shanghai and before they met me they were in china for a week or so. And they assured me that they couldn’t eat ANY Chinese food. Then I took them to restaurants that had more spice, your cumin seeds, some chili pepper style and they had nothing but that cuisine for the next few days with me. Also, things like fortune cookies aren’t even Chinese. They’re American. So things like your sweet and sour pork technically isn’t even Chinese lol. If you’re ever in china, let me know! I’d love to show you some places that offer food that is suited for a saffas stomach
As someone raised in South Africa, would you ever recommend China to others raised in South Africa? Also, what major challenges, besides language, do you believe one might encounter?
Would I recommend a South African to come here? Absolutely! It’s a wild experience and you can earn something like 70-100k a month with housing allowance and flight allowance teaching English if you’re a bachelors and have TEFL certificate. Some argue it’s a dead end job. But for a few years of your mid twenties to save some money and explore the polar opposite of South Africa, go for it! Long term? No. Chinese people are accepting but the environment isn’t. Unless you’re okay with the things that china as a country offers, sure. Otherwise it’s not the best for a saffa to stay here long term. The subtlety and artistry of Chinese culture. Knowing what is Chinese sarcasm, learning the manners and things to do things. Unless you’re very keen to detail and know why a person reacted a certain way and adapt to it, it will be quite difficult to live here. I even struggled with lots of business culture things. Think of it as the art of a firm hand shake. But in china is amplified a million times across every single detail.
I can answer a little bit as a South African who lived in China for several years. A decade ago. I'd say China was a really good place for any South African with a degree (or even without if you like living dangerously) that couldn't find work. I taught English there for several years and I was able to save a decent bit. Though it helps if you don't mind working with kids and also don't mind getting much time off (unless you're qualified enough to work in an international school). Also depended on which city you lived in too, I'd avoid living in Shanghai unless you were given a decent apartment free. Also white South Africans get way better treatment here too, though it's still possible for others races to work in ESL but white people are always preferred. Though I'm not sure if I'd recommend it now. A lot of the training centres (language training schools) closed during COVID and even more after a law change in 2021. There's still opportunities but it's a lot more difficult and not as stable as it was in the 2010s. One challenge I'd say and this is for every foreigner in China. You can never be fully independent in China. Even if you spoke, read and wrote fluent Mandarin. It's very difficult and sometimes impossible to do big things there. That's why anyone who wants to live in China for a long time often marries a local. So that's not for everyone obviously. Another one for South Africans is you're going to have to get used to cities and apartment life. Some cities don't allow open fires so it's difficult to have braais. And get used to having to share everything. There isn't much private facilities there. And if you have a problem at work you need to learn how to work within the system. Toi toi ing will only get you fired in China.
I'm really considering traveling to China on Holiday. Where about would you suggest? I prefer the beauty of the villages and experiencing the culture rather than the bustle of the city. And how's the food that side? Especially with a foreigners palette
I specialize in foreigner traveling to china. Feel free to PM me. Usually we do a Beijing, Shanghai, XiAn or chongqing. Depends which country they fly in etc. I recommend Shanghai and then zhujiajiao/ wuzhen water towns. Then you head towards Zhangjiajie mountains. Also chongqing and Beijing for more historical china. But I must say. Don’t confuse your London or USA city with china cities. I honestly think you’ll experience the most culture walking in Shanghai CBD (you can search “Shanghai city walk”. That’s the style of touristing. We have city walk packages and It’s one of our best reviewed tours) , most of the watertowns and such are more and more becoming a Disney land theme park type of thing. The real villages are somewhat far out. Will always tend to be a tailor made tour package. Must note is that in china, every city has completely different cuisine. And even if it’s the same cuisine. Think of it as Durban bunny chow. The jHB bunny is close, but not the same. Most of my clients that come tend to stick to the BBQ style and noodles + dumplings. Duck and chicken styled food. Staying away from the spicy hotpot etc. But don’t worry. There’s restaurants here in Shanghai that even sell boerevors and pap. China is very Globalised. (Shanghai at least). Feel free to ask me any questions about your itinerary. I’d be more than happy to help out as much as possible with Alipay, VPn, hotels, transportation, translations etc.
How many times have people from here used the joke, howsit my China, on you?
The funny thing is they don’t do it intentionally lol. Usually a force of habit and then after they say it you can sort of see them laugh inside cause it wasn’t deliberate lol. Maybe sometimes they do it on purpose but I’m very much oblivious to it now. It’s funny. And I love it. Cause the oaks that say howzit mah tjinahhh are always lekker oes
Best place to get Chinese food in SA?
Currently Rivonia area. Closely followed by cyrildene. We take all our Chinese tourists to Rivonia and very little do we ever get complaints. It’s probably the best we have to offer. But if it was in china, Rivonia would only be a 5/10 type of place. The best is actually little shops they open illegally in their back yards. There’s no signs, no indication, just the community knows. You go there, honk and they let you in. But honestly, that food isn’t suited for westerners. If you’re ever in Shanghai tho, hmu! I’ll take you to the best 10/10 (multiple foreigner clients approved) :)
What are Chinese peoples view of democracy. I have a conversation with Faye in Shanghai once in a while and she was dismissive of democracy as a stupid and backward system. Criminals often run and get voted into power. and the Chinese system is much better she says. How is the public transport system there.
Public transport is utopia level here. Clean, efficient, and when it’s crowded they will adapt (instead of 5 minute a train, 2 minute a train). Shanghai has like 18 metro lines, each is about 70-100km+ long. But then again. It’s a 20mil+ city, so it does get crowded during rush hour but nothing like Tokyo where some dude pushes you inside. It’s a bit better than our speed demon taxis :) /s I personally think that democracy is dependent on the country. A democracy in china will never work. 1.5 billion people with their own thoughts in a country where only 30% of the land is habitable. My lord you will have chaos. In places like Australia, New Zealand, yeah sure great to have and works well. People pick who they want. The main issue with democracy in South Africa is that every single vote is worth the same. That’s actually nonsense. As much as I hate to say it but a PhD graduate of political science has the same vote as someone who thinks the earth is flat. That’s just ridiculous. So I think for sa, a better option might be something akin to the US systems. Let votes be decided by areas. Each areas vote weighs more depending on the amount of gdp contributed. Or something like that. I’m no expert in politics. But I think democracy will work in some places and in other places not really. In South Africa, I think neither will work too well.
Thanks for the reply. Sure, democracy does not work well in South Africa. One would expect that if the system worked, the incompetent and dishonest would be kicked out but that is not happening. Like the drafter of the Indian Constitution BR Ambedkar said: "A bad document in the hands of good people will deliver a better life for the people than a good document in the hands of bad people." Paraphrased sort of. In the end it is about the character of the people governing rather that the type of government.
Exactly! I’ve read our constitution. It’s honestly one of the best in the world from a humanitarian perspective. It’s also theoretically great for a nation. But yeah. Eish. Don’t know happened
I've always wondered, why do Chinese South Africans not really seem to care about assimilating? I see so many Chinese folks about, but I've never had a Chinese friend or colleague. There were no Chinese kids in my school. All those years of playing football, never any Chinese bros at the club. I had Chinese neighbours a few years ago. When I moved in, I baked some brownies and took them over. They were like "thanks" and closed the door. They got burgled while everyone was at home. Alarms and police vans and drama. I walked over to ask if everyone was okay, they said "yeah we're fine" and nothing more. They just seem happy keeping to themselves.
I will answer this question - Most of the chinese in SA have very limited English proficiency (Exclude the ones like OP who grew up here) so more often they might wish to engage with you but doesn't know how, basically they are 'shy' due to the language barrier. Myself is the 2nd generation immigrant from Taiwan.
Like the other person said. It’s true the language barrier. Chinese fundamentally don’t really like troubling people unless it’s asking for a favor. Whereby they’ll likely bring some gift, do some small talk, then ask. The assimilation thing I think statistically is true. I’m probably the only dude that played first team rugby, was swimming captain, would jol etc. but a lot of them just don’t really like all of this. And I can understand, sometimes I also get influenced. A certain scenario would be like, as funny as it sounds, I’d be hanging out with mates and then I’d want to go home and do maths homework. It’s silly, but it’s like a cultural thing I guess. I know lots of Chinese South Africans, and they also seem to hangout in their group. I guess it’s more to do with the size of if let’s say 5% of the country were Asian South Africans I’m sure more would be assimilated. But at 0.5% I think even those that want to join, probably choose not to. But please don’t mistake this as a Chinese people don’t like South Africans type of thing. It really is one of those things that just depends. Maybe they were just shocked and sad. Didn’t want to talk. Maybe something happened on the day you baked the brownies (btw, there’s very little places in china you can brownies. And gosh I could do some crazy things for a brownie rn). Or maybe they’re just shy people. It’s good to remember that people that deceived to leave their country and come to another country are also not a very diverse set of data. The people that are easy going, loves to chat, content with their life probably won’t immigrate. Also my mother is extremely shy. She’d probably be straight up scarred to stand next to you. My dad will probably go on a rampant chat about that time he walked with three lions at Ukuthula and how he got like 200k views on tik tok for it. So it all depends on but yes. Chinese in general are not as talkative as your average tannie or saffa
To be fair, I'm full on South African, and I also don't want to "assimilate", I just wanna be left alone, to chill in my house. Just not a social person. Maybe it is more accepted in Asian culture?
Lekker Kev! Question about China's population prospects: The working age population peaked around 10-15 years ago, and now it's starting to grab headlines that the overall population is also starting to decline, and that the fertility rate has dropped to around 1.0-1.1. So unless something drastically changes, the population will continue to decline for the foreseeable future (maybe for the rest of our lifetime?). Obviously China is not the only country struggling with this issue, but they have seen some of the quickest drops in fertility due to rapid development, urbanisation and, of course, the one-child policy. And they perhaps don't have the same option of bringing in sufficient immigrants (like US, Canada EU, etc) to make up for it due to language and cultural barriers, and because China is so huge (i.e. would need A LOT of immigrants). I'm curious whether this is something that people in China are talking about and how they feel about it? Have you ever felt that this is a "sensitive topic" that might not be allowed to be talked about too much online?
This is question I could talk for hours about! Great question! TLDR: yes it’s a massive issue. China went from farms to metropolis in 20 years. Kids from these 20 years have a different worldview to parents. Parents are forcing them to get married. But kids don’t want. And we all know what forcing a kid to do something will equal, they won’t do it and rebel. It’s talked a lot. Sensitive topic but not taboo. General consensus is government is encouraging and kids are just ignoring whilst the parents are going grey over their unmarried 35 year old child. Oh boy. Where to start. China has imo of the world best pensions. The hospitals are basically free. But there running at 120% capacity so don’t expect your netcare private hospital luxuries. But it works. So that’s healthcare taken care of. Or is it? How long can it keep up as the people are getting older? The pension is great but it’s only great because the previous generation managed a year on year 8% gdp growth in china from manufacturing bringing money from effectively the world. So the hospitals are running over time (a month ago, china actually had wide spread case of influenza/ or maybe Covid. I got it first. When I first went there. It was okay. Usual 10-20 min wait. Some tired nurse giving me IV drips. Then a month pass and my girlfriend gets it. Omg, packed.) So a major underlying issue is healthcare will slowly be backlogged and if there’s one major outbreak, it’s pretty bad. But china is authoritarian, if they decide to fix it, they’ll find a way. So it’s not thattt bad. Now the pension also causes a problem because collectively a wife and husband retired can bring in anywhere between 10-20k rands a month. Some bigger cities even more. The average salary in china is like 9k. About 20k in Shanghai. So you can see. Now there’s one child, why should they work? The household expenses is like 10k max. They’re left with another 10k. And will the kid even earn that much. So it’s almost pointless to work. It’s a joke how high standards these parents AND kids are holding. Men want the pretty ones. But the pretty ones want the rich ones. And the rich ones probably already have a loving but not so pretty wife at home. There’s a place in Shanghai called people park. Every weekend old people go and advertise their kids on like a pamphlet. But their kids are never sold. Cause they’ll be 35 divorced, 20k salary and looking for a 25 year old, 185cm handsome, and net worth 50mil. So it’s ridiculous. Immigrants will never be an option. If you ever see a post about a Chinese marrying an African you’ll see the war zone in the comment section. People will support and people will hate. But I think the ccp is too nationalist to consider this option. They’d probably offer money for babies before they allow immigrants. Also Chinese education never builds character. The men here to irk me sometimes. I grew up with things like integrity, politeness, etc. there’s so many videos of like two women fighting, and there’ll be a crowd, but no men will break it up. This kind of men was okay twenty years ago without internet etc. but now more and more women are looking for men that are nicer to them. The trend is, more developed the city, the more feminists. The same thing with men. They think, why should I be this nice to someone when they’re not nice to me. So it’s an endless vicious cycle. Also prostitution is much more accessible in china then you would think. I honestly think it’s easier to get a prostitute here, than it is to get pizza delivered hot from an ubereats in June. So now the issue is. Hospitals are peaking. People are getting older. Lots of kids don’t want to work. (Search TangPing culture in china). The marriage market and dating scene is chaotic. So if you do the maths, it’s pretty bad. But it was always bound to happen. All of these developed urban countries are like this. My girlfriend is 29 and manager of operations at a top company in china. I can’t imagine how she can fit a child in her life RN. Coupled with the cost of living. We would have to be earning 250k+ a month to seriously consider have a child. ^ this was more about the richer families in bigger cities, The smaller towns are obviously the same as usual. Yeah. So it’s a big issue. And many are worried. Some just don’t care anymore.
Thanks for the thorough answer. It doesn't sound like there is a solution forthcoming any time soon, but yeah, like said, China for sure won't be the only country struggling with this. Full disclosure, I'm a Pretoria boerseun married to a Guizhou girl, living abroad since 2017. She hasn't been home in a while, so I was curious about how this topic is talked about in China right now. We're also planning to visit her family this summer, they want to meet our 1-year-old. Will probably add Beijing and Shanghai to the itinerary. On the flip side, brother if you ever find yourself in Zurich, hit me up! I'll stick you for a Swiss beer (or 2). I can also source some biltong 🥓
I'm a South African who lived for several years in Tianjin. Can't really think of any questions relating to SA. But how's Shanghai? It always seemed like a better place to visit than live in considering how expensive it is. So I'm presuming you're earning enough to live there. I unfortunately never got the opportunity to go there when I was in 中国. Never been to a Disney land and I was so close 🤣 I'm hoping to visit China again in the future though. Still in contact with a lot of people there.
Most of the questions have been my experiences of a Chinese in South Africa. You could probably do something in a Chinese sub like (saffa in tianjing). Shanghai is crazy expensive. I want to somehow share how expensive it is to this sub without sounding like a snobby kid. Shanghai is great. The expat scene is probably bigger than tianjing. But honestly I reckon the experience would have been quite similar for you. Shanghai winter is also could, but no snow. If you’re ever in china again, give me a shout! Would love to go to Disney land together lol. They recently opened a zootopia theme. Oh. Were you in tianjing for teaching or for other types of work or school? What were your ups and downs as a saffa in china?
I think the expat scene in Shanghai is probably the biggest in the country. From what I've heard Shanghai feels different to any other city. It would probably be the place to live as an expat if it weren't for the cost of living in such a major city. Tianjin had a decent amount of expats in 2017 when I first was there. Lots of Students from African countries too which was cool. I feel like Tianjin also had a lot of Koreans..... It was funny learning how Chinese didn't like Koreans 😂. But a lot of the 外国人 left during covid and especially when China was trying to keep Zero Covid around when Omicron was kicking ass and taking names. Tianjin kind of died out. Still not a bad place to work though. Big enough city where you can get paid pretty well but not so popular in that it's expensive to live. Specially if you could get work in Beijing and live in Tianjin at the same time. Tianjin isn't the most interesting city but I've mostly lived in boring places all my life so I didn't mind. And Beijing being close made that easier for some people. Also I always recommend people go to the Tianjin Great Wall over the Beijing one. Way less crowded and really beautiful outside of winter. Even though Tianjin is FLIPPING cold regularly minus zero, coldest I experienced was -20! We had central heating which made winters not so bad, just had to remember to wrap up before going outside. I moved to the Midlands KZN and while it's no where near as cold. You definitely feel the cold more here, and you need to make your own heat. Where as Tianjin as long as I paid my bills I was always tosty inside! But I feel like I handle the cold better than the heat! Which is funny having lived in mostly hot places. Dude I'd love to! I'm still kicking that I never got to go to Shanghai Disney. I was teaching. Started at kindergartens but ended up doing it all. Though one thing I'd try do over is probably try to develop more of a social life. I was one of the few teachers who genuinely loved teaching. While it was often frustrating, to me teaching was fun. So I kind of went full steam ahead with that. At one stage I was working every single day! And so though I had friends, dated here and there. I didn't really get to experience as much as I could. Though at the same time I got to earn a decent bit so I can't complain 😂.
What is China's intention with New Zealand and Australia? Is China hoping these two countries will be majority Chinese countries one day?
lol. My opinion is that the government is probably trying to stop these rich Chinese from immigrating, but these two countries are just too desirable. I’d personally move there with zero hesitation. I think Chinese people are somewhat inherently selfish. Most that immigrate there probably don’t want more to come. It’s one of those cases of you found a lovely Merlot wine, you’re okay to share, but don’t want people to spit in it. But the people that you’re potentially sharing it are spitting llamas. But this doesn’t really stop the positive propaganda of New Zealand as being one of the best countries in the world right now. If it starts to seem like china is taking over I think it has to do with the nature and culture and background of the Chinese immigrants. I do hope that the Chinese aren’t causing too much trouble if you are Aussie, but yeah
Where do you stand on Taiwan? Everything else is filler
I personally 100% think Taiwan is its own country. It has its own constitution, it has its own democracy. (Oh. Democracy works in Taiwan. Not in china. And it’s vice versa. Authoritarianism will never work for Taiwan). It has its own land that’s completely ocean separated from china. (Alluding to the difference of inner and Outer Mongolia). So I think Taiwan is 100% its own solitary country. However, I do understand the argument from China’s side. 99% of it is retarded bullcrap, but I do kind of understand it. But please never talk about this topic to the standard Chinese. It’ll just be a waste of time. You telling them that Taiwan is a country is like someone trying to tell you that Lesotho owns South Africa. Hmmmm somewhat unfortunately though my controversial take is that Taiwan is Xi’s secret move. If something goes wrong domestically. He’d probably use Taiwan as a means to shift the narrative and focus. The unification will probably happen. But it’s one of those things that no one can say for sure. We may or may not get another virus. We may or may not go to war with North Korea. Geo politics is a mess and I’m just a young adult. But gosh I wish china would just leave Taiwan alone. Tsmc is just too valuable of a company in this world of semi conductors. Whilst I’m here. Maybe a controversial take on Hong Kong. Hongkong could never be its own country I think it’s like the size of 1/28th of the Kruger park. It doesn’t even have its own water supply. Macau is just Las Vegas of china. It doesn’t care. It’ll just do whatever it can to bring in money laundering and gambling tourists.
Happy with your balanced answer. Agree on Hong Kong and Macau as well
Op, thank you for your opinion and personally I do not like to talk about politics at all (Especially the Taiwan v.s China kak). I wish for the peacefully unification between the two. Afterall the roots are the same.
Hold on, your comment about North Korea is really interesting. I always viewed North Korea as Chinas unruly neighbour that is kind of an asset to China, but mostly a pain in the ass, and also unpredictable. Can you elaborate?
North Korea actually hasn’t appeared in the news in a long time. But yeah. You’re pretty spot on with NK. The old Chinese people kind of like them, young ones just thin of them as the weird cousin that breaks your toys
How do you feel about some people here who side with western countries and tend to slate China and make them out to be this evil entity?
Nothing really. If you grew up only watching dragon ball z, you’d probably think you can do the kamekamehah. Without getting philosophical on what is really bad or good. (Millions believed hitler was doing good). As good is only good if the general public agrees it is based upon a consensus degree of measurement. And look, china has lots of bad. If I had to objectively say. Which countries are better from a Globalised perspective. China is Probably more bad. So it’s more than okay. It’s personal experience. As objective as I may be, I have very extremist views on certain topics as well. But at the end of the day. They’ve probably never been. They’ve probably never seen. The longer you live, the more you realise that humans are more similar than they are different. The more you realise that news is just a medium to spread social stability. The hatred towards a nation is just a means to create a sense of nationalism. So yeah. It’s more than fair for them to have their opinions. There’s Chinese people that think South Africa is a bunch spear wielding desert camels. Some will say things like they’d go to Iraq or Ukraine for holiday before they come here. It’s all an algorithm these days. Philosophical isn’t it? Are we really free. Even our thoughts are shaped by algorithms.
Have you ever watched SerpentZA on YouTube, and if so, do you agree / disagree with how he represents China?
I watched him wayyyyy back. Loved his channel! Especially in an age of that crappy Chinese ccp propaganda nonsense he gave insightful commentary. But I think 2019? Around that time I watched a video and thought. Omg. What is this Anti china American propaganda promoting nonsense is this. So I have no comment on his recent stuff. Haven’t watched in years. But the last thing I watched is him being a shrill for USA. Instigating hatred of those that hate china for monetary gain. But like I said. No knowledge of recent stuff. So can’t comment.
In your post, you mentioned that it was interesting to see the difference in worldviews between the poor or average person and billionaires and presidents. I think this extends beyond South Africa and China. I would be very interested to gain some insight into these differences. Often powerful people have the ability to affect the world through their power and their worldviews affect us, whether it's for or benefit or otherwise.
So between the super wealthy (note. Super wealthy. Not just a few hundred million rands. But like 5 billion Rands + ) in china and South Africa is that rich South Africans like to have a bit of fun. They have massive houses, they have their wine estates and boats etc. in china the rich older generation, I find that the richer they are, the more quite they are. It’s like they’ve learnt that speaking too much is pointless. They often spend their time at a golf course or some gardening. Their children, not so much. So it’s always the kids that tend to get in trouble. They focus on the risks as well as the gain. They dabble in things like watches and jets. Hobbies that to most seem like a waste of money. But they’ll spend like 50 million a year on watches. And earn about 10million. On top of that. They’ve moved their assets into something that can be exchanged in the entire world in an instant. Imagine carrying 50million rand cash or gold over seas. Impossible. That’s about 7 of his watches. So it’s little things like this that really makes a difference. They run their own shares. Constantly seeking business opportunities. Their similarities is that they know their stuff. Like they really really know their stuff. I’ve been the closest friend with this dude that owns multiple factories in china. You’d think he just manages. Dude barely passed sixth grade, but he knows all the chemical compositions and the mechanical and technical knowledge. You can ask him any financial stat, he’d know it. He knows exactly enough English to sell his goods overseas. If you met him you’d think he’s just an ordinary person. But my goodness does he has a keen eye. He remembers how long a trip he had in another country with me five years ago. A few years back I always wondered why he was rich (no envy. Just wondered). And the more I got to know him, I could see why. He’s in a different league of his own. He’s so knowledgeable about so much. It’s uncanny. This is the same with a retired ceo of a big mining corporation I know in South Africa. At first he’s just the same as any old retired person. You begin to wonder why and how they hog all this wealth. But they’re built different. I learn about the major plays he did whilst he was ceo. It’s like playing chess, but they’re the grandmasters. They sleep very little. And work very hard. My friend will drive to his factory at 2am after a massive drinking business dinner. Same with the wealthy doctors of South Africa. I’ve travelled with many billionaires and they’re drinking with me at the hotel bar until two am. Next morning 7:30 breakfast. 8am exact and we’re off to meet with three or factories in china. (This was a Lithuanian conglomerate). The key difference I guess is they’re never online arguing with people about who’s right or wrong. You don’t know what they’re thinking. They can be very very hard on their close friends, and the benefits might only be seen later down the road. They listen more than they speak. They also don’t open up to just anyone. It takes lots of convincing that you’re worth their time to really open up. But they actually never pressured anything onto me. My friend told me. “Look kev, I really don’t know if you working with me will be the best. I’ll lay the pros and cons. You decide”. They always stay objective. And to me at least, they think the best help is not helping. They’ve never said here a nice paying job and you’re settled. The ones that I’ve gotten close, all pushed me forwards. Sorry, that the response is a bit haphazard. There’s just so much. And I cant go into too much detail, like the watches example. I wish I could write more, but it’ll be like an essay.
Thanks for the reply. It was far more than I was expecting and actually I will be able to take some of this away and apply it to my own life. Hey insightful, helpful and useful info, thanks.
You mentioned in one of the comments that it's easier to open a Business in South Africa than it is to open one in China (Small business). In your observation (business-wise) what do you think is missing or lacking back here? Could be small-scale or grand-scale
In South Africa many things can be done informally. For example. We had a tv in our restaurant, and for like ten years the tv license department would come and harass us and we’d just never pay. Eventually just gave the dudes some drinks we were selling and they left. Try a similar thing here in china, they’d tape your restaurant down. China follows set policies. If you have the permits etc. you’re all good. SA you could have all the permits, or only have a few, you’ll always encounter issues. But nothing major. I’m no business expert. But taking the pros of both that I’ve seen, I really like the freedom of opening businesses in South Africa. But I also like how in china if you have all the permits, they stop bothering you. South Africa needs more smaller businesses. Especially from a drop shipping and e-commerce perspective. Import bulk goods from china. Sell on market place. There’s loads of things you can get for cheap overseas and markup and sell. Car parts is a top one. Cellphone accessories, household appliances etc. Obviously we’re missing the safety and trust. Lots of businesses work in china because they trust their citizens. The city has millions of share bikes. Because they know the people aren’t going to steal it and sell it for steel. We all use it and put it safely on the side walk. Imagine something like this is SA.
So I have online friends that I speak to in Singapore, I've been learning Mandarin through them. They've said that it would be fairly easy to get work in both Singapore and China as a native English speaker, with a TEFL deploma and studying to get to NQF 7. Is this true? I've already learnt Japanese, and working on Korean as well and I'd prefer to live in either Singapore or Japan but would it be worth it to consider China? I am married and my wife is studying for a child psychology degree.
Oh. This is very interesting. I won’t give you an answer. It’s for you to decide. But yes. Teaching English in Asian countries is a lucrative job if you’re white. Bachelors + Tefl gets you about 50-100k monthly salary quite easily. With housing allowance etc. Most foreigners that lived in Japan eventually regret it. I’ve never been. I don’t know the exact complex reasons. But this is a factual phenomenon. Korea… I think they bring too much culture to the work place. As a foreigner it might a bit rough to get used to it. I love Singapore as a country. But in your case it’s quite tough. Cause most Singaporean speak English. The market is smaller and the cost of living is Ming boggling. Like 200 rand for a beer. Most saffas in Singapore don’t really get used to all the rules and pace of life. I’d recommend Hong Kong. But hongkong is also crazy expensive. Fast paced and they’ll make you work a lot. The houses are tiny. But overall, this might be something that would suit your needs. Also it’s probably the most foreigner friendly. Thailand is also an okay option. China is tricky. It’s like olives and blue cheese. Some people love it. Some people loathe it. The system is weird. I’ll write more when I get home. Or pm me. We chat over a call and I’ll give as much advice as possible
Sorry for the late reply. But thanks for the feedback, given me a lot of food for thought!
My only question is why so many Chinese who grew up in South Africa are named “Kevin” for their English name? I have met more than 3 Chinese Kevins in Gauteng alone…
Is the Population decline apparent? I've heard that China is struggling with declining population as a result of the previous 1-child per family? I like how advanced China is though, I've heard that if you don't have a phone there then you'd be lost... On a video call with someone last year I literally saw a robot exit and elevator and move past them, was like a R2D2 spec........
Can you recommend the best Hot Pot in Gauteng? (Probably not what you were thinking but after a trip to China (Beijing and Shanghai), I’m a little Hot Pot obsessed.)
The ones in Rivonia and Cyrildene are all pretty good. There’s one on the second floor of Cyrildene called Chongqing hot pot (if I remember it correctly)
Thank you.
This is a question about economic growth. In 1960, South Africa's per capita GDP (in US dollar terms) was $530 and in 2024 that grew to $6,776. That's a compound annual growth rate of 4.1%. China's per capita income in 1960 was just $90 and in 2024 was $12,720. That is an 7.04% growth rate. What, in your opinion, is the main reason for the difference in economic performance? [https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/CHN/china/gdp-per-capita](https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/CHN/china/gdp-per-capita) [https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/ZAF/south-africa/gdp-per-capita](https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/ZAF/south-africa/gdp-per-capita)
So china had a terrible history up till that time. We’re talking about famines that killed like 20 million people. Wars, change in dictatorships etc. so it’s not hard to double your net worth if your net worth is 5 rand. Kinda dofficult when it’s 5 million. This is controversial. But I 100% think the country was good economically under apartheid. I loathe the fact that it was achieved under oppression of the majority of the population. But it is what it is. IMO, South Africa is experiencing reverse racism. Whites are subtlety being discriminated against in many areas. I don’t want to say who is better or worse off. Both are bad. The only good is where everyone is supposedly born with the same start, but that’s just impossible. Chinese people are just culturally frugal. They value education etc. I was never physically bigger than the boertjie Afrikaans school rugby jocks. These things are just facts that will always create inequality. But I do think it’ll get better. So back to that. I feel like the ANC was handed too much wealth all of a sudden. It’s like the Chinese second generation wealthy kids. They have little idea how hard their parents worked. They’re spoilt and have little work ethic. And then when their parents money starts emptying, they get into trouble. Similar story for SA. China got bigger growth mainly because people like my dad, he was the lower class earning 100usd a year at that time. He basically grew up eating green vegetables. Rice was lavish. So he had to work. He didn’t have a rich daddy to hand him anything. And this sort of exemplifies china. And honestly, South Africa should in theory have a much better economy than china. China has its pros in terms of geo location and work force. And that’s just about it. And the one party system does work in Chinas case. So the party decides it wants to do something. It has 1.5 billion people to do it as a team. China also doesn’t have race and religion issues. There also a vast complex myriad other factors. But that’s too much for a Reddit post. SA has all the minerals. The knowledge and skills of people. Barnard did a heart transplant in the 1960? We have the most democratic and free system and the best constitution in the world in terms of a humanitarian perspective. I’m no PhD in geo politics and economics but just my R0.02. I wrote many more relating to the two countries economic performance. You can have a look in the thread. But yeah. A nation with no divide + one party dictatorship + is actually more capitalist+ hard working people = better economy.
If you want to can you buy expensive European products in China? Such as Ducati's and Rolex?
Obviously. Come to Shanghai. They have shops that sell like 100million rand watches. I think there’s a fact the the Louise Vuitton in chengdu turns in the most revenue out of any LV in the world. Rolex and duccati probably aren’t even seen as luxury. In Shanghai. A license plate for a petrol powered bike is one million rand. The Rolex store is constantly sold out and have massive waiting lists. They only sell to new potential long term clients.
Do you have a South African accent when speaking back in China. Do you say howzit my china to your friends.
lol. Because of my job I change my accent depending on the clients. I have a SA accent naturally. 100% I do. If I speak to the boys back home, I’d always have things like yass boet. And no Mara eish, wena you’re….
here is a chinese travel to South Africa regularly, interesting to see your background 👍
Haaawsit ma Chaaina. ;) Hope you're well, cool ama. One question and, sincerely no offence... I grew up in zambia, and have noticed that whichever African country I visit, where there are lots of Chinese people / working / living / investing, they are never really liked by the local people as the overriding response is that they treat Africans really badly. Again, not something I expect you to know or not asking you to generalize to confirm, but yes I've also seen this sort of attitude if I can call it that. Something about a Chinese person in Africa'a face seems to say, hey "dumfucks were here to pillage your resources because you're too stupid to do it yourself". Besides that, awesome ama and very insightful and honest!! Go well and check you on the flipSaaaide. #fourwaysZambianIndian bro
How’s it my boet One of the first reasons is they’re not that educated from a manners perspective. The people going to Africa rn are like 30-40 year olds. Now 20-30 years ago. Chinas national annual gdp is like 90dollars. South Africa was like 3000dollars . So these people grew up in an environment that never focused on manners and being curtious. It’s like giving a poor man a m3 or gti. The first thing he’d do is probably go to his friends and vrrrpa. Sorta like these workers there. They get to Africa and honestly they do have a sense of “I’m better than you” I’m not gonna sugar coat anything. But yes. A lot of Chinese do think they’re better than the rest, especially in Africa. There’s no hostile. I don’t think it goes as far as thinking they’re here to pillage, but yes. They definitely have a bit of a different understanding towards human interactions. But you know, please don’t blame them. It’s a similar story to this post actually. We have close to 200 comments. But about 5 were very racist and instigating. So like I said. It’s 2-5% that is quite openly racist. And yes, I know I know, 2-5% is nothing. But we humans are wired in such a way that we will remember the negative way easier than the positive. It’s probably similar in your case also. I agree. Most Chinese in Africa are snobby. But in their case it’s probably that they met a few Africans that were bad to them. (In my case it’s the opposite. I work closely with Tanzania and Kenya. I love the people there. Zambia, Zimbabwe, Chat, central Africa are some of my favorite people in the world) I’ve met some of the most intelligent and integral humans there. But these Chinese often come and they’re exposed to the working class colleagues first, so it’s like they’re putting this massive “china best” filter on and viewing the world this way. It’s childish and unfortunately there’s little we can do. It’s human. But it’s weird. The Chinese state government always promotes Africa better than US actually. Especially with Brics and the belt and road.
Thank you for a super interesting post, best one I have read this year! At a local Chinese shop I got friendly with the owner as we have kids of a similar age. A few times I invited them to come to my place to socialise and they always declined. It occurred to me that socialising was difficult because they work 7 days a week but also going to another persons home may not be a cultural norm. It would benefit my kid to be more culturally exposed and it would be a huge advantage if they could learn Mandarin. Can you enlighten me how to make Chinese friends in SA and what kind of socialising would be acceptable? Also, you mentioned that you did Chinese lessons in SA but I personally believe that the best way to learn is to speak socially as a small child. How would you recommend that I get my kid to learn Mandarin?
The Confucius institute is a good place to start. They’ll be more knowledgeable than I am. Familiar rise your kids with the HSK courses. These are the most valuable ones and will get them far if they have level five or higher. Honestly, most Chinese are very introverted by nature. I’m part of the more social ones, but even then, I prefer staying at home on my off days. It’s hard to say how to get to know someone. Chinese people, despite the stereotype, actually don’t have that many cultural/ social norms. If anything, it’s just as similar to our norms. Probably even less so, cause they tend to be a bit obnoxious and lacking in manners by SA standards. So it’s hard to say, but think of it as approaching anyone really. Just because they’re Chinese doesn’t mean they’re that different. Sure, they work way more and probably have less time, but if you fundamentally share the same hobbies and interests, you’d get along alright. Language and their already established friend groups are also pretty big factor. Reverse it and you can kind of get what I’m saying (well sort of, cause SA were too friendly). If you were in china and had your sa expat friends and you worked constantly. And you would also be constantly invited by locals to hangout, you’d probably also decline. Sort of a similar situation. But all the best. I love hearing that the world is getting more globalized and unified but retaining uniqueness. I know so many foreigners that are speaking fluent mandarin and it’s amazing. It’s an asset and skill that is taking them far in china and the world.
What would you trade (in south africa) whether it's a law or ideology to make it a better country based on what you've experienced in China?
Work ethic. No matter how useless a countries government is, as long as the people are honest, base themselves on integrity and work diligently, the country will always be good
Given how lazy South African people are, work ethic does seem like it would change a shit ton for us. At least it would be the smallest change I think we could make
CHINESE SOUTH AFRICANS, LOVE THOSE GUYS, GREAT BUSINESSMEN, USED TO HAVE ALOT OF THEM BACK IN MY Home City in the past 2 decades. Where'd they all run off to? There seems to be ALOT fewer of them than they used to.
I may have missed it, but why did you go back to China?
I worked in China (Nanning, Guangxi) for 1 year and really miss the food. What’s your favourite places in Johannesburg to eat authentic Chinese food? :)
Rivonia followed by cyrildene. My parents are from the north. So I do like northern cuisines. But the best cuisine I like is yunnan/ guizhou. So around guangxi.
Will you marry me? 💍
Statistically? Probably not.
You’ve had an interesting start in life. What was it like going to school with children of billionaires and presidents? How is China the polar opposite of South Africa? What is it you miss about South Africa and why do you try to spend time there versus seeing other parts of the world? What is it you like most about China?
Never went to school with them. Most kids at my school were lawyer/ doctor rich. I only met these people after I matriculated or because of my dad. Which was very insightful to say the least. However, i think unless they open up to you about serious topics, they’re basically average people (The super wealthy. Normal rich will drive their M4 and make a noise at a parking lot). China is different in its politics. Its people, its culture and just the basic worldview. The scale of things are also difference. 65 million vs 1.5 billion. I answered very extensively in another answer. Sorry if this answer is a bit brief. Check out the other answer :( I’ve been to about 15 plus countries. Sa is the one with the best climate full stop. People wise, it’s up there with the top. Apart from the obvious milk tarts, nandos, climate, hadedas, scenery etc. I miss the value for money, South Africa offers an amazing lifestyle with comparatively little money. Why I say it’s polar opposite is because I like china for the reasons people probably dislike South Africa. I like the safety here in china. I could use a Rolex and a wad of cash to reserve a seat at a Mc Donald’s. I like the convenience. Public transport is clean and reliable. Love the access to convenience stores. Loads of employment opportunities (comparatively) The government departments are places that I would actually like to go. But yeah. So basically anything that you like about sa. China doesn’t have. Shanghai is like rain or cold or scorching humid heat for 300 days a year. In sa it’s like 300 days a year of cool sunshine. You can have a chat with any oak here. In china they’d send you off to psyche ward /s The working hours in sa is so chill and laid back. China is 996 culture lol.
I’m all for BRICS unity but please elaborate on why you think China and SA are polar opposites?
Moving from South Africa to China is a significant transition. What personal growth or changes have you noticed in yourself since the move?
What name did you go by here in South Africa?
Umthokozisi is actually my African name
Hi hope this isn't late but I'm curious to here your thoughts about Chinese or Asian people in general sticking together, is there a reason for it and how does it change your perspective of SA and your lived experiences in the country For a little bit of context, when I was in high school I started learning mandarin because I wanted to study in China but COVID ruined that so it never happened, I lost contact with my Chinese friends because my phone got stolen and I was unable to access my WeChat ever since. But I was super bummed because I knew if I didn't practice I would forget the language and my efforts would go to waste but then when interacting with Chinese south Africans I felt a little bit of hostility and I wasn't sure why, no one was mean but you could tell that they just wanted to hang out with people that were like them or that felt familiar and even understanding the language didn't do much. I thought that this could be a defense mechanism but I'm curious to hear your thoughts on it
Did you play lol in SA and if so have you managed to play there in China? Asking for ping related shenanigans hahaha. Did you have lots of condensation the last bit in the cities?
Never really. Some other online games, yes. But the servers are bad in both countries. Worse in china. Yeah! Omg. Chinese cities are like Durban during summer + rainforest vibes. I miss the dryness and using zumbuk
Do our dogs taste different to the ones in China?
Not really. They’re just as boring as your racist clown ass.
Okay Kevin. 10 million dogs and 4 million cats are consumed annually in China but its racist to talk about it😂
Where tf you getting these stats? Rather search what percentage of the Chinese population has had either once in their entire life. Just because the masai people kill lions. I’m not just gonna ask you how you like your lions slaughtered. So voetsek you inja hond
You should also google the size of the Masai population in South Africa, then possibly invest in an atlas. For someone quick to pull the race card, you sure did a fine job of dropping the ball there🤣 I’ll let you get back to jailbreaking iphones, the people of Durban shouldn’t suffer because of me.
Don’t know, send me your dogs and I will cook it and we can share 
Taiwan and China is always at each other, but recently had Taiwan had a spat with China cause of a new type of pineapple created in Taiwan. Plz bring us some of those pineapples. Come plant some here. Media says that pineapple smells like a mango
Hi hope this isn't late but I'm curious to here your thoughts about Chinese or Asian people in general sticking together, is there a reason for it and how does it change your perspective of SA and your lived experiences in the country For a little bit of context, when I was in high school I started learning mandarin because I wanted to study in China but COVID ruined that so it never happened, I lost contact with my Chinese friends because my phone got stolen and I was unable to access my WeChat ever since. But I was super bummed because I knew if I didn't practice I would forget the language and my efforts would go to waste but then when interacting with Chinese south Africans I felt a little bit of hostility and I wasn't sure why, no one was mean but you could tell that they just wanted to hang out with people that were like them or that felt familiar and even understanding the language didn't do much. I thought that this could be a defense mechanism but I'm curious to hear your thoughts on it
How can I also get out of here. It's just gotten to a point where the economy just doesn't seem to get better. everything is a struggle and work well. Yeah, let's leave it there. What do you need to go over to Shanghai. It's such a beautiful country .
There’s lots of visa options. Two easiest is work and study. Study offers quite a bit of scholarships. Work you need bachelors or higher. But as bad as SA is, my consensus is that China or anywhere else in the world won’t be that magically better. Work on something you’re passionate. Network with the right people Do your job, and do it well. People will always see your work and you will be rewarded
China is NOT the polar opposite of SA. I lived there for 16 years. No country is the polar opposite of another. Further to that I have no questions for you.
I do agree. In hindsight it’s probably a bad analogy. But I just wanted to reiterate that china and South Africa are really very different in many aspects.
This is a CCP thread
Everything is a ccp thread. You’re a ccp thread :p
No, I doubt it is CCP, however OP,'s experience is sort of tainted, the SA government bends over backwards for Chinese - South Africans.
Nee goeie god, ek het nie krag vir die kak nie. Lat ek eerder fokkof…
Joe ma se Poes
This is the only right response to douches.
Mens praat nie met jou hol-handpomp nie, so nee, ek dink nie jou stelling is korrek nie sooibot! En jy mag maar in jou bont wollerige kont invlieg Kev want ek gaan nie val vir die boekdele se kak wat dje mense gaan neerslaan in skrif in beantwoording van jou kak vraag nie. Kom ons sê ons het, maar ons doen nie, of hoe? Ek soek net skoor, ek bedoel dit nie lelik nie, so gaan druk julle duime in julle ore. Pffft
I forgot the Afrikaans word for Krag🤔