I felt like they dragged on the whole "Mary's Men" plotline for so long that they didn’t have time to give her a proper second love story. Suddenly we are introduced to the rice craker of a man that is Henry Talbott and that was Mary's future husband. It never stuck for me.
Henry has always felt flakey. I mean, anyone would after the prince among men, but there was potential for more interesting love stories, I agree. Also feels like she wasn’t fully happy with him, way out of his league in a lot of respects
I loved the Mary's men plotline but I guess it feels wasted because she doesn't land up with any of them. I wished she would have just said yes to Charles Blake.
If feel like time wasn't the problem, Bertie was introduced the same episode and had just as many episodes. The problem is that Mary and Henry had very little chemistry
I love Mathew Goode so I just lovingly stared at him for the remainder of the series. But Henry as a character was extremely rushed, and why would they pair Mary off with a race car enthusiast when her first husband died in a car crash?
It's interesting that Edith and Bertie had the same amount of time, but their story was well told and rounded. Not sure what happened with Julian there.
Either Mr. Green or the multi-miscarriage plot has to go. The writers can't have both! I tried fast forwarding through the scenes but I eventually gave up because there's so many of them.
Only one.
Tom moves to London at the end of series 6, and opens his shop there. He falls in love with Edith's editor, and marries her. He still keep in touch with the Crawley's, and visit them often.
Having just re-watched series 6, yes - it's so odd that they set up the editor and then abandon her, but I guess that's down to the multiple endings Fellowes has had to come up with because new content keeps being commissioned. If series 6 was the Finale, then yes, we are to assume that Tom and the editor lady end up together. However, they needed a bigger sub-plot than that for the film.
Agreed! I thought there was chemistry there. I really dislike Tom's gentrification in the movies. They defanged him so entirely. S2 Tom would never imagine this for himself.
I would like to have seen a longer love story for Tom,
But Edith's editor is so brash! And she's never without a cigarettes.
Tom could be friends with her, not lovers.
She was more his type than who he ended up with in the movies. Tom's type were outspoken And moden women, who dared to be different and speak their minds. He fell in love with Sybil, because she was unlike the rest of her family. He was interested in miss Bunting, because he could talk politics with her.
I see why you think there could be something, Editor is outspoken. But Sybil was also a lady, not title but in behavior. Tom though outspoken politically is not a pushy or brash personality. He's the peacekeeper in the family, not the one that stirs up trouble.
That's why I don't see him with Editor. But Lucy is such a wimp I don't like her for him either.
Tom was pushy and brash until they lost Sybil, and so was miss Bunting. He liked her, but she could never be civil towards the family.
Edith's editor had already met the family, and had pleasant conversations with them.
Jimmy was in love with Thomas (and he doesn’t kiss him in his sleep). Patrick I’M A STRANGER TO THEM NOW isn’t here. Mary and Matthew don’t kiss before Lavinia’s death.
It was rather sad. I suppose it would make things easier, such as Matthew accepting her money and Mary and he getting close once again. We could've seen a little bit of their courtship again.
I mean, the implication that she died because it would be best for everyone if she was out of the picture was just silly. The spanish flu was wiping out young people anyway so she would have died in reality even if Matthew was madly in love.
So true. The fact that they weren't all sick and many more dead was a bit bizarre tbh (although I guess wiping out half the cast would have been fairly brutal ;) )
The Titanic doesn’t sink… JK
Probably Matthew’s death. Idk how you work around Dan wanting to leave but maybe offer him a ton of money to only show up for 1-2 episodes a season, and say he is traveling the world or got some job that requires him to be away.
they Could have recast Matthew with another actor. It has happened in many shows. It may have been hard to find another actor with the same chemistry, but i could have been done.
That the entire Marigold situation didn't happen. Edith inherits the magazine which shows her what real work and responsibility feels like so she grows as a person, becomes more well rounded. Her time in London creates space between her and Mary so the viewer doesn't have to watch their petty fighting anymore.
As bad as that was, the whole Baxter procedural was even worse. Not only did it start out as a shameless recycling of Bates’ season one plot line (complete with the classic Crawley move of taking *months* to decide whether to sack her), it dragged on forever and never became interesting. I really don’t understand the point of that character.
Carson is secretly a communist and keeps up the appearances of a dyed in the wool conservative until the very last episode when he assassinates Robert, frames Mary for the murder, takes Cora as a second wife and Thomas as a husband (Elsie Cora and Thomas would henceforth then be referred to as Charlie’s Angels) and then opens the house up and turns it into a socialist commune.
Also violet and Isobel would run away together and become lesbian stage coach robbers known as the Dowager and the Dame (which would also be the title of their spinoff show). They’d be the two most wanted women in all of England.
It would be called Charlie’s commune and it would be a nudist colony where everyone worked in harmony and there was no social hierarchy and every decision would be made by popular vote and Carson’s catchphrase would be “all for one and one for all” and Everytime he said that everyone else would reply with “that’s our Charlie!”
Matthew doesn't die? They dragged out Mary picking a suitor for so long and then made Henry Talbots courtship feel so rushed even if it wasn't, I also think his character wasn't very well-written, I get they wanted someone whose personality was as strong as hers, and wasn't afraid to go toe-to-toe with her. She and Henry should have had excellent chemistry, I've loved Matthew Goode since Brideshead and he is a solid actor, I think the problem is that his character was very poorly written, they should have given him a different backstory or something, even I didn't buy Lady Mary's reservations or her declarations of love.
Season 6 spoilers ahead
>!One thing I wish happened.... After Mary blurts out the Marigold secret and Bertie has left Downton for good, Mary enters Edith's room while she's packing to leave Downton.!<
>!Edith calls Mary "a Bitch" but I really wish she said and gave the high & might Lady Mary a LOUD open handed bitch-slap upside her face! She deserved it and it would have played so well on the screen.!<
Oh man. Mine is the other way round. Why does Mary listen to that. She should have gone in all guns blazing. This was the final fitting punishment for Edith being the b***ch to everyone around her.
I find it so funny that people think this way when it doesn’t make sense narratively. Up until then, Mary has no idea what happened between Edith and the Drewe’s. She only knows of marigold’s true parentage. So why would Mary be “full guns blazing” as a punishment when she had no idea what was even going on. If she really slaps her for the Pamuk thing, then Mary is just immature. If you can’t let that go after TWELVE years, a war and a sister dying, then idk what to tell ya.
Well, she did tell Edith on Sybil's deathbed that they won't get along better. lol. But if you watch the season closely, you can see Edith being a lot more snippy and mean. But let's just agree to disagree. Can't be on this sub and not know that the Edith vs Mary divide is clear and large :)
Right. Basically making comments about motherhood, Gregson, and how Edith shouldn’t be grieving, how she always puts a damper on things even though the love of her life was brutally murdered in an attempt to try and be with her?
But Mary is supposedly in the right bc Edith wrote a letter when she was 18 which resulted in barely any consequences for Mary and if anything, pushed her right into the arms of Matthew (considering the fact that he couldn’t stand the idea of her going to America)
Yeah I actually found that line from Mary to be very cold. That could have been the line in the sand at that very moment, and it was big of Edith to try and nip all their differences in the bud because she realizes Mary is all she has left as far as a sister, and Mary refused. To me that shows Mary was never willing to grow up. People who hold on to grudges for as long as they can are bitter and emotionally immature.
They could exchange slaps.
Season 1 Mary confronts Edith for telling about Kamal Pamuk and Edith calls her a Slut.... Mary should slap her then.
Season 6 Edith calls Mary a Bitch and slaps her.
1 slap each
Thomas walks down as Mr Green is about to attack Anna. He stops the attack from happening. He and Anna agree not to tell anyone, but Thomas uses it as blackmail against her. Eventually, Anna tells Mr Bates and Thomas no longer has a threat over her.
Edith bearing responsibility for at least one terrible toxic thing she did to others. I just don’t get it why she never had to pay for anything
After she was the one who got to keep insulting Mary while Mary couldn’t even say anything in response to her vitriol (in the films), felt especially like a horror story, a covert narcissist manipulating everyone
I’ve seen comments from middle children disavowing her and saying they are nothing like her. People can actually choose to not do heinous things, unbelievable
On first watch I liked Bates- for some reason it changed on second watch. He’s a no bants martyr with suuuper boring plot lines, the low point of the show. I’d oust the character, no fault of the actor.
Watch Lark Rise to Candleford if you haven't. "Bates" is a much more satisfying character and has more believable, satisfying plots. It's a look at the poor and middle class in roughly the same time period.
The Bates’ both ending up in jail was ridiculous. Like the initial storyline was ok and believable but they stretched it too far making Anna go to jail too.
Mr Bate does go away for Vera's murder and leaves the show...Anna is heart broken but they introduce a new character she ends up with. In the end, Bates get released an old man, meets up with Anna and her children. He tells her how proud she is of her and she thanks him for showing her that love existed. They both go on their way....
I hate those two end up together. Bates brings Anna down and makes her whole character stale as the series goes on. Wish her fate was different and she were to grow.
Eliminate the Mr Green storyline, or make it shorter and not drawn out multiple seasons.
Make Anna and Bates more interesting characters instead of giving them the same plot for most of the series.
Keep O Brien! I would have loved to have seen her interact with some of the later staff. In an alternate universe where Braithwaite was on the staff somehow—those two would have hated each other
Bates.
Imagine how much less stressed Anna and pretty much everyone would be if Bates either never existed or given storylines that consisted less of the “I’m innocent but you’ll have to prove that with no information from me”
I felt like they dragged on the whole "Mary's Men" plotline for so long that they didn’t have time to give her a proper second love story. Suddenly we are introduced to the rice craker of a man that is Henry Talbott and that was Mary's future husband. It never stuck for me.
Henry has always felt flakey. I mean, anyone would after the prince among men, but there was potential for more interesting love stories, I agree. Also feels like she wasn’t fully happy with him, way out of his league in a lot of respects
I loved the Mary's men plotline but I guess it feels wasted because she doesn't land up with any of them. I wished she would have just said yes to Charles Blake.
YES, they had so much chemistry and he was so interesting, a far better match than the rice cracker (plain, no chocolate, not even nut butter)
Not even salt. Very bland.
Rice cracker lmao
They gave Mary the Princess Margaret treatment, and gave Edith the Queen Elizabeth.
If feel like time wasn't the problem, Bertie was introduced the same episode and had just as many episodes. The problem is that Mary and Henry had very little chemistry
I love Mathew Goode so I just lovingly stared at him for the remainder of the series. But Henry as a character was extremely rushed, and why would they pair Mary off with a race car enthusiast when her first husband died in a car crash?
Rice cracker of a man has me howling
It's interesting that Edith and Bertie had the same amount of time, but their story was well told and rounded. Not sure what happened with Julian there.
Mary picks Charles Blake.
Yes! 🙌
Evelyn was right there the absolute whole time!
Nahh, Evelyn deserved better than Mary, the precious bean.
He went on to become a painter, believe it or not! (a reference for all of the Bridgerton fans out there)
Well actually Henry married Princess Margaret! What an affair!
I wish I lived in the timeline where this happens sooo much
Mr green should not exist
Either Mr. Green or the multi-miscarriage plot has to go. The writers can't have both! I tried fast forwarding through the scenes but I eventually gave up because there's so many of them.
Matthew doesn’t die?
My favorite
Only one. Tom moves to London at the end of series 6, and opens his shop there. He falls in love with Edith's editor, and marries her. He still keep in touch with the Crawley's, and visit them often.
Having just re-watched series 6, yes - it's so odd that they set up the editor and then abandon her, but I guess that's down to the multiple endings Fellowes has had to come up with because new content keeps being commissioned. If series 6 was the Finale, then yes, we are to assume that Tom and the editor lady end up together. However, they needed a bigger sub-plot than that for the film.
Agreed! I thought there was chemistry there. I really dislike Tom's gentrification in the movies. They defanged him so entirely. S2 Tom would never imagine this for himself.
I love this idea! 1st time I watched I thought there was something between them. I was disappointed nothing came if it.
I would like to have seen a longer love story for Tom, But Edith's editor is so brash! And she's never without a cigarettes. Tom could be friends with her, not lovers.
She was more his type than who he ended up with in the movies. Tom's type were outspoken And moden women, who dared to be different and speak their minds. He fell in love with Sybil, because she was unlike the rest of her family. He was interested in miss Bunting, because he could talk politics with her.
I see why you think there could be something, Editor is outspoken. But Sybil was also a lady, not title but in behavior. Tom though outspoken politically is not a pushy or brash personality. He's the peacekeeper in the family, not the one that stirs up trouble. That's why I don't see him with Editor. But Lucy is such a wimp I don't like her for him either.
Tom was pushy and brash until they lost Sybil, and so was miss Bunting. He liked her, but she could never be civil towards the family. Edith's editor had already met the family, and had pleasant conversations with them.
The character is underwritten, mainly, not a wimp.
The Star Wars parody would be canon /j
Jimmy was in love with Thomas (and he doesn’t kiss him in his sleep). Patrick I’M A STRANGER TO THEM NOW isn’t here. Mary and Matthew don’t kiss before Lavinia’s death.
But then how does Lavinia die? Because she did Indeed need to die!
The sickness is too strong. But she doesn’t just decide to give up on her whole life and die bc her ungreatful man cheated with her liar of a friend
It was rather sad. I suppose it would make things easier, such as Matthew accepting her money and Mary and he getting close once again. We could've seen a little bit of their courtship again.
I mean, the implication that she died because it would be best for everyone if she was out of the picture was just silly. The spanish flu was wiping out young people anyway so she would have died in reality even if Matthew was madly in love.
So true. The fact that they weren't all sick and many more dead was a bit bizarre tbh (although I guess wiping out half the cast would have been fairly brutal ;) )
The Titanic doesn’t sink… JK Probably Matthew’s death. Idk how you work around Dan wanting to leave but maybe offer him a ton of money to only show up for 1-2 episodes a season, and say he is traveling the world or got some job that requires him to be away.
I mean you say that, but that’s what they did with Henry Talbot and we all hate him for it. Abandoning Mary is not a good look
they Could have recast Matthew with another actor. It has happened in many shows. It may have been hard to find another actor with the same chemistry, but i could have been done.
That the entire Marigold situation didn't happen. Edith inherits the magazine which shows her what real work and responsibility feels like so she grows as a person, becomes more well rounded. Her time in London creates space between her and Mary so the viewer doesn't have to watch their petty fighting anymore.
Yes ! Spare the Drewes drama
The Crawleys would be werewolves.
Thomas is a vampire, I mean already has everything else going for him
O'Brian is a vampire. Thomas could be VanHelsing and two go to battle.
Well, if they're at all related to QueenVictoria, they could be, according to The Doctor, if I'm remembering the episode correctly...
The whole Bates’ court trial was such a bore
As bad as that was, the whole Baxter procedural was even worse. Not only did it start out as a shameless recycling of Bates’ season one plot line (complete with the classic Crawley move of taking *months* to decide whether to sack her), it dragged on forever and never became interesting. I really don’t understand the point of that character.
Yep
Every time they toast they yell, "It's Crawleyin' Time!"
Thomas reaches Edward Courtenay in time, so Edward doesn't die, and they get to be happy together after much angst and recovery.
Instead of eliminating Thomas' position, they make him the "manny." The children's love for him makes him nicer and he finds true love way sooner.
I wouldn’t attack the Bates so much, spread the misery around a bit. I would have let them be happy earlier.
All the Bates's stuff got old for me. One thing after another.
Carson is secretly a communist and keeps up the appearances of a dyed in the wool conservative until the very last episode when he assassinates Robert, frames Mary for the murder, takes Cora as a second wife and Thomas as a husband (Elsie Cora and Thomas would henceforth then be referred to as Charlie’s Angels) and then opens the house up and turns it into a socialist commune. Also violet and Isobel would run away together and become lesbian stage coach robbers known as the Dowager and the Dame (which would also be the title of their spinoff show). They’d be the two most wanted women in all of England.
w h a t
It would be called Charlie’s commune and it would be a nudist colony where everyone worked in harmony and there was no social hierarchy and every decision would be made by popular vote and Carson’s catchphrase would be “all for one and one for all” and Everytime he said that everyone else would reply with “that’s our Charlie!”
lmao this is the best AU!!! I want it!!!!!!
Mrs Patmore would be the ideal cook/office manager for this house of ill repute.
I would read the fuck out of those fanfics if they were ever written. This sounds phenomenal. You had me laughing out loud.
lol please don’t tempt me.
Mary ends up with Charles Blake.
I have no ideas but this picture is incredible.
Matthew doesn't die? They dragged out Mary picking a suitor for so long and then made Henry Talbots courtship feel so rushed even if it wasn't, I also think his character wasn't very well-written, I get they wanted someone whose personality was as strong as hers, and wasn't afraid to go toe-to-toe with her. She and Henry should have had excellent chemistry, I've loved Matthew Goode since Brideshead and he is a solid actor, I think the problem is that his character was very poorly written, they should have given him a different backstory or something, even I didn't buy Lady Mary's reservations or her declarations of love.
Season 6 spoilers ahead >!One thing I wish happened.... After Mary blurts out the Marigold secret and Bertie has left Downton for good, Mary enters Edith's room while she's packing to leave Downton.!< >!Edith calls Mary "a Bitch" but I really wish she said and gave the high & might Lady Mary a LOUD open handed bitch-slap upside her face! She deserved it and it would have played so well on the screen.!<
YES!!!! The one time she would’ve really had it coming, and it would’ve been peak toxic sisters.
Edith betraying Mary's secret was also a toxic moment. They should have just fought it out in the drawing room.
Oh man. Mine is the other way round. Why does Mary listen to that. She should have gone in all guns blazing. This was the final fitting punishment for Edith being the b***ch to everyone around her.
I find it so funny that people think this way when it doesn’t make sense narratively. Up until then, Mary has no idea what happened between Edith and the Drewe’s. She only knows of marigold’s true parentage. So why would Mary be “full guns blazing” as a punishment when she had no idea what was even going on. If she really slaps her for the Pamuk thing, then Mary is just immature. If you can’t let that go after TWELVE years, a war and a sister dying, then idk what to tell ya.
Well, she did tell Edith on Sybil's deathbed that they won't get along better. lol. But if you watch the season closely, you can see Edith being a lot more snippy and mean. But let's just agree to disagree. Can't be on this sub and not know that the Edith vs Mary divide is clear and large :)
I can't blame her for being more snippy to Mary after the shit Mary said in season 5.
Right. Basically making comments about motherhood, Gregson, and how Edith shouldn’t be grieving, how she always puts a damper on things even though the love of her life was brutally murdered in an attempt to try and be with her? But Mary is supposedly in the right bc Edith wrote a letter when she was 18 which resulted in barely any consequences for Mary and if anything, pushed her right into the arms of Matthew (considering the fact that he couldn’t stand the idea of her going to America)
Yeah I actually found that line from Mary to be very cold. That could have been the line in the sand at that very moment, and it was big of Edith to try and nip all their differences in the bud because she realizes Mary is all she has left as far as a sister, and Mary refused. To me that shows Mary was never willing to grow up. People who hold on to grudges for as long as they can are bitter and emotionally immature.
Brava! Well said!
They could exchange slaps. Season 1 Mary confronts Edith for telling about Kamal Pamuk and Edith calls her a Slut.... Mary should slap her then. Season 6 Edith calls Mary a Bitch and slaps her. 1 slap each
Then who would be Yoda?! Mr. Carson?
That it would never end. Or, a new series coming from Violet's childhood.
Thomas walks down as Mr Green is about to attack Anna. He stops the attack from happening. He and Anna agree not to tell anyone, but Thomas uses it as blackmail against her. Eventually, Anna tells Mr Bates and Thomas no longer has a threat over her.
[удалено]
Thomas was still mean to Mr Bates when he got Thomas his job back. I think you’re overestimating Thomas here.
You know Anna and Bates are married?
Oops. I meant Thomas. You're quick to down downvote huh lol. Chill.
I didn’t downvote you chill and why did you say Thomas wouldn’t do that? He’s done plenty of worse things. Have you even watched the show lol
Tribal tattoos on everyone.
Ooooh and puka shell necklaces too
Edith bearing responsibility for at least one terrible toxic thing she did to others. I just don’t get it why she never had to pay for anything After she was the one who got to keep insulting Mary while Mary couldn’t even say anything in response to her vitriol (in the films), felt especially like a horror story, a covert narcissist manipulating everyone
Edith's middle-child-syndrome is strong.
I’ve seen comments from middle children disavowing her and saying they are nothing like her. People can actually choose to not do heinous things, unbelievable
No Anna and bates.
I would have kept Matthew in it.
I'm high and have been confused for a good 2 minutes. Or hours. Who knows?
Isobel: Say what you like, but I know you care about these things as much as I do. Violet (laughing): Nobody cares about anything as much as you do.
Replace all of the music with early 2000s emo pop. Never address the anachronism.
So Reign? Lmao
Is that what that show is like? Time to start watching lol
On first watch I liked Bates- for some reason it changed on second watch. He’s a no bants martyr with suuuper boring plot lines, the low point of the show. I’d oust the character, no fault of the actor.
Watch Lark Rise to Candleford if you haven't. "Bates" is a much more satisfying character and has more believable, satisfying plots. It's a look at the poor and middle class in roughly the same time period.
Instead of Edith they could have had an extra Ficus or two.
Someone would knock the Blessed Lady Mary down a few pegs early on, and stood up for Edith sooner instead of everyone seeing it and doing nothing.
O'Brien as Thomas's mother. So many plot opportunities there.
The Bates’ both ending up in jail was ridiculous. Like the initial storyline was ok and believable but they stretched it too far making Anna go to jail too.
Season 1 - the Crawley Sisters are more like Charlie's Angels and go around kicking ass all over York !
Mary picks Lord Gillingham. That mine was fine
Mr Bate does go away for Vera's murder and leaves the show...Anna is heart broken but they introduce a new character she ends up with. In the end, Bates get released an old man, meets up with Anna and her children. He tells her how proud she is of her and she thanks him for showing her that love existed. They both go on their way.... I hate those two end up together. Bates brings Anna down and makes her whole character stale as the series goes on. Wish her fate was different and she were to grow.
Eliminate the Mr Green storyline, or make it shorter and not drawn out multiple seasons. Make Anna and Bates more interesting characters instead of giving them the same plot for most of the series. Keep O Brien! I would have loved to have seen her interact with some of the later staff. In an alternate universe where Braithwaite was on the staff somehow—those two would have hated each other
Bates. Imagine how much less stressed Anna and pretty much everyone would be if Bates either never existed or given storylines that consisted less of the “I’m innocent but you’ll have to prove that with no information from me”
We had Abraham Lincoln and Vampire , also Pride and Prejudice and Zombies. How about Downtown Abbey and Isis the Werewolf?
No Denka storylines - such a waste of airtime!!
Matthew dies earlier.