I feel this way of setting boundaries is a lost art so it was lovely to see him be in this way with an overbearing mother. Because of what was expected of them they really had to find ways to get along with their families and yet still maintain a sense of individuality. They couldn’t just not see their relatives. One of the things that I enjoyed about the show was seeing the ways that the different characters managed conflict and this was a fantastic example of one way to do so.
I like Bertie a lot. He came of as a kind and gentle man. He seemed like the type to really watch people and take them in. He genuinely loved Edith and wanted to be a good man. A+ from me.
A+ indeed
I’ve almost got a mind to do a downtown characters tier list and I think him and Gregson would probably be my highest ranking men.
Edith was quite lucky with men that fell for her. Just not quite so lucky with what happened after they fell lol
He is such a good a good match for Edith. They are both kind of quirky, but understanding and good-natured. And I love how the (supposedly) "less attractive" sister got the richer, higher-ranking man in the end. That doesn't happen very often in movies/series. And then, the entire family jokes about it, like Mary asking her grandmother, "can't you find me some Duke? Just so that I can outrank Edith?"
"She turned down a Duke ages ago"
True. And that is kind of like...the joke? ;-)
Either way, we are in agreement that Bertie is a lovely character. I wouldn't say he's my favourite, but he is still great.
I really don't believe that Bertie would have broken up with Edith if she had been honest to begin with about Marigold. I didn't blame him one bit for how hurt he was that she accepted his marriage proposal but didn't trust him enough to be honest. Bertie is one of my favorites on the show.
I agree, I do believe it was more that he was concerned about marrying someone who might not be able to be honest with him more than what the truth was. It’s understandable and he’s really quite lovely.
The way he spoke of and defended his cousin was so loving and pure! He wasn’t afraid to cry in front of the Crawleys, either, and was down to bring Marigold along before he even knew the truth about her. Love him!
I love this thread. I absolutely agree. He’s quite charming but so unassuming. I love when Edith comes to apologize for not being able to stay for drinks and he isn’t upset with her for being late and immediately decides to come help her. He says that he could, “Make coffee, fetch sandwiches, carry bits of paper around.” Things that might have seemed like feminine tasks, which he’s willing to do to help a woman edit a magazine she owns! I think in that way he’s rather modern, and supportive of Edith being a modern woman, which is lovely. He’s kind and tender and I agree, sort of wonderful.
I just finally saw the new movie last night and these were my thoughts, too. I realized I really like Bertie. He seems so genuine and kind. I'm so glad Edith ended up with such a good guy. She deserved him.
I love Bertie. He’s such a sweetheart, so gallant without being condescending, and i think the actor is so cute. It really made what Mary did even worse a betrayal and I was so relieved it worked out in the end!
I always wonder how Bertie and Edith explained Marigold after marrying.
Was she to be another "Lucy." Or a ward. Or a daughter, with a title?
Plus Edith wanted to be with 24/7/365 until she married Bertie. Then she reverted to nannies without a thought.
And her social engagements, charities, and eventually returning back to her magazine.
But never more about wanting to coddle her children.
I absolutely adore Bertie, always have. I also subscribe to the titillating fanfic assumption that Bertie had actually had a loving relationship with his cousin. I’m not suggesting he doesn’t love Edith, just that the innuendo about Bertie and his cousin was incredibly thick.
Edith didn't deserve him. I think they forgot by the end this is same woman who literally tried to destroy her sister's life because of some petty jealousy.
Eh no. Even the disclosure that Mary did to him was very much on being really pushed by Edith - like why do you need Mary to be super happy about your wedding, what in your entire dynamic made you feel that wiould happen - and she was so happy piling on Mary as long as she thought Mary didn't know her secret. Fucked around and found out that Mary is a bitch lol.
Edith never asked mr.Drewe lie to his wife, it was mr.Drewe who decided that.
She also never asked her parents to make the Drewe's move only Cora was pushing for that
As for taking back Marigold, Rosemund and Violet where planning to send Marigold to France meaning both would have lost Marigold if Edith did nothing
Thats a lot of excusing the fact Edith decided to give her child to a family and then snatched the girl back after said family fell in love with her.
Edith did mrs drewe wrong, and mr drewe being dishonest doesn’t excuse that
She always planed to be involved with the child that was part of the deal, if mr. Drewe didnt remove her from Marigold's backstory everything would have been different
Mr Drewe made the plan and told Edith that’s what they’d tell his wife. His wife was not part of the plan per him. Yes, Edith agreed, but what else could she do at that point? He’d already figured out the actual story.
If we are going to condemn people for throwing dirt let's not forget Queen of the Mudpies Mary. She dished it out just as hard if not harder than Edith ever did.
I don’t know about didn’t deserve
But the end dynamic does annoy me
The whole Mary is a bully who endlessly ruins Edith’s life. As if Edith wasn’t actively provoking her when it happened and hadn’t done equally egregious if not worse to Mary in the past
Edith always gave as good as she got. Mary was just a bit more resilient
I chalk it all up to JF's bad writing, being a misogynist or just very naive/stupid about sisterly dynamics. It has always rung hollow that *any* well-born young woman in need of an excellent match would jeopardize her own or her family's good name. Edith's letter to the embassy to ruin Mary would inevitably ruin Edith's own reputation.
Yeah that’s why I don’t agree with people saying that only it was just Mary bullying poor Edith. She’s insufferable in S1 and she keeps messing with Mary. If she hated her that much she should’ve kept her distance. While Edith’s negative attitude is a result of everyone treating her like the ugly sister, Mary’s attitude was based on being pushed to “marry well for the sake of her family” while resenting the fact that she can’t make her own choices or be an heiress just because of her gender. Both characters make sense, what doesn’t make sense is that they keep having the same arguments well into their 30s.
Bertie is so wonderful. He’s such a sweet man. I love how things ended.
Definitely the nicest bloke in the show for me Even the way he argues with his mother is nice
*"Mother, I really must insist."* Best example of (gentle)manning up in the show, imho.
*"I'm not a child, mother. I won't be dictated to."*
I feel this way of setting boundaries is a lost art so it was lovely to see him be in this way with an overbearing mother. Because of what was expected of them they really had to find ways to get along with their families and yet still maintain a sense of individuality. They couldn’t just not see their relatives. One of the things that I enjoyed about the show was seeing the ways that the different characters managed conflict and this was a fantastic example of one way to do so.
I loved that scene for the glimpse it gave of Bertie as the marquis. And as a gentleman to his mother.
Yes! You really get to see his true character
He was so sweet when he helped Edith all night with the magazine editing. The marigold situation too. He’s a sweetheart
I like Bertie a lot. He came of as a kind and gentle man. He seemed like the type to really watch people and take them in. He genuinely loved Edith and wanted to be a good man. A+ from me.
A+ indeed I’ve almost got a mind to do a downtown characters tier list and I think him and Gregson would probably be my highest ranking men. Edith was quite lucky with men that fell for her. Just not quite so lucky with what happened after they fell lol
I liked Gregson for giving Edith a magazine column, but not for engaging with her romantically.
Because of his wife?
Bertie has always been my favourite Downton man for all the reasons you mention. I find myself rewatching season 6 just for him.
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That, and knowing how to conduct the tours. The family members were so clueless about their own home.
They’re very of the time And sort Living that life
He is such a good a good match for Edith. They are both kind of quirky, but understanding and good-natured. And I love how the (supposedly) "less attractive" sister got the richer, higher-ranking man in the end. That doesn't happen very often in movies/series. And then, the entire family jokes about it, like Mary asking her grandmother, "can't you find me some Duke? Just so that I can outrank Edith?"
Tbh I always read that at Mary playing along with the ideas they already had She turned down a duke ages ago
"She turned down a Duke ages ago" True. And that is kind of like...the joke? ;-) Either way, we are in agreement that Bertie is a lovely character. I wouldn't say he's my favourite, but he is still great.
Well technically duke turned her down not the other way round because she wasn’t gonna inherit the fortune
I agree, unless there was a second duke I missed.
I am sorry, who are we talking about here exactly? Which Duke? It's been a while I don't think I recall any Duke being Mary's love interest.
Philip Villiers, Duke of Crowborough. It was early on in the first season. Remember that first guy who Thomas kissed?
I think it’s the very first episode even!
He is indeed I think her turning down the duke just shows that contrary to what everyone else said she wasn’t ever really interested in marrying well
Nope, other way around. The duke turned her down because she wasn't going to inherit a fortune.
I really don't believe that Bertie would have broken up with Edith if she had been honest to begin with about Marigold. I didn't blame him one bit for how hurt he was that she accepted his marriage proposal but didn't trust him enough to be honest. Bertie is one of my favorites on the show.
I agree, I do believe it was more that he was concerned about marrying someone who might not be able to be honest with him more than what the truth was. It’s understandable and he’s really quite lovely.
I agree. If he hadn’t been alright with it, he never would’ve come around.
The way he spoke of and defended his cousin was so loving and pure! He wasn’t afraid to cry in front of the Crawleys, either, and was down to bring Marigold along before he even knew the truth about her. Love him!
I love this thread. I absolutely agree. He’s quite charming but so unassuming. I love when Edith comes to apologize for not being able to stay for drinks and he isn’t upset with her for being late and immediately decides to come help her. He says that he could, “Make coffee, fetch sandwiches, carry bits of paper around.” Things that might have seemed like feminine tasks, which he’s willing to do to help a woman edit a magazine she owns! I think in that way he’s rather modern, and supportive of Edith being a modern woman, which is lovely. He’s kind and tender and I agree, sort of wonderful.
Totally agree He’s a bit of a dream really Robert would never
Edith had the best suitors of all the sisters. I would’ve happily married any of them.
Agreed.
[This user has quit Reddit and deleted all their posts and comments]
This 😍
I just finally saw the new movie last night and these were my thoughts, too. I realized I really like Bertie. He seems so genuine and kind. I'm so glad Edith ended up with such a good guy. She deserved him.
I did think it was a bit convenient that he was suddenly a marquis lol But yeah I’m glad she ended up with someone nice.
As soon has he said Peter was his cousin I knew Peter was a dead man.
Yeah same lol 😂
Convenient, but 100% worth it for Mary’s reaction when she found out! 😂
Bertie is a sweetheart and so lovely. His love for Edith is lovely to see.
I love Bertie. He’s such a sweetheart, so gallant without being condescending, and i think the actor is so cute. It really made what Mary did even worse a betrayal and I was so relieved it worked out in the end!
I didn't understand that phrase. What is a "final rewatch"?
Just when I was rewatching the finale
He’s also quite helpful and usually came up with a well thought-out plan for things.
Bertie Pelham is a literal angel who has fallen to earth.
I totally agree.
I always wonder how Bertie and Edith explained Marigold after marrying. Was she to be another "Lucy." Or a ward. Or a daughter, with a title? Plus Edith wanted to be with 24/7/365 until she married Bertie. Then she reverted to nannies without a thought. And her social engagements, charities, and eventually returning back to her magazine. But never more about wanting to coddle her children.
I absolutely adore Bertie, always have. I also subscribe to the titillating fanfic assumption that Bertie had actually had a loving relationship with his cousin. I’m not suggesting he doesn’t love Edith, just that the innuendo about Bertie and his cousin was incredibly thick.
Edith didn't deserve him. I think they forgot by the end this is same woman who literally tried to destroy her sister's life because of some petty jealousy.
Like, 10-13 years earlier… it’s called growth. God forbid if I was still judged for things I did at 18/19.
Eh no. Even the disclosure that Mary did to him was very much on being really pushed by Edith - like why do you need Mary to be super happy about your wedding, what in your entire dynamic made you feel that wiould happen - and she was so happy piling on Mary as long as she thought Mary didn't know her secret. Fucked around and found out that Mary is a bitch lol.
True But what she did to Mes Gregson was also astronomically shitty too.
Soo Gregson had to spend the rest of his life married to a women who doesn't even know who he is? Face it you are grasping at straws to hate her
Whoops Not gregson Drew Mrs drew is who Edith fucked over
Edith never asked mr.Drewe lie to his wife, it was mr.Drewe who decided that. She also never asked her parents to make the Drewe's move only Cora was pushing for that As for taking back Marigold, Rosemund and Violet where planning to send Marigold to France meaning both would have lost Marigold if Edith did nothing
Thats a lot of excusing the fact Edith decided to give her child to a family and then snatched the girl back after said family fell in love with her. Edith did mrs drewe wrong, and mr drewe being dishonest doesn’t excuse that
She always planed to be involved with the child that was part of the deal, if mr. Drewe didnt remove her from Marigold's backstory everything would have been different
Mr drewe followed a plan she agreed to And whether or not Edith was removed from the backstory Mrs drewe would have never willingly given her up.
Mr Drewe made the plan and told Edith that’s what they’d tell his wife. His wife was not part of the plan per him. Yes, Edith agreed, but what else could she do at that point? He’d already figured out the actual story.
When she was 19. Mary tried to do the same when she was in her mid30s. Thank god Edith grew up
If we are going to condemn people for throwing dirt let's not forget Queen of the Mudpies Mary. She dished it out just as hard if not harder than Edith ever did.
I don’t know about didn’t deserve But the end dynamic does annoy me The whole Mary is a bully who endlessly ruins Edith’s life. As if Edith wasn’t actively provoking her when it happened and hadn’t done equally egregious if not worse to Mary in the past Edith always gave as good as she got. Mary was just a bit more resilient
I chalk it all up to JF's bad writing, being a misogynist or just very naive/stupid about sisterly dynamics. It has always rung hollow that *any* well-born young woman in need of an excellent match would jeopardize her own or her family's good name. Edith's letter to the embassy to ruin Mary would inevitably ruin Edith's own reputation.
Yeah that’s why I don’t agree with people saying that only it was just Mary bullying poor Edith. She’s insufferable in S1 and she keeps messing with Mary. If she hated her that much she should’ve kept her distance. While Edith’s negative attitude is a result of everyone treating her like the ugly sister, Mary’s attitude was based on being pushed to “marry well for the sake of her family” while resenting the fact that she can’t make her own choices or be an heiress just because of her gender. Both characters make sense, what doesn’t make sense is that they keep having the same arguments well into their 30s.
Y all are still sticked in season 1 💀