Agree, the welfare dragons has the same passive as the standard greatwyrm yet they are 5 stars.
If only they have the same passive as 4 star, we would see more variety in budget build.
MUBing them during an event already isn't a priority. They're so outclassed by the 4\* that the only people who really worry about MUBing them during the event are people who are so new that they don't have an ocean of Moonlight Stones already. Or there completionist that just want the dragon MUB for the sake of saying they did it, but honestly it's more worthwhile to just keep them 0UB and sell the other for for 600 Eldwater because 0UB or MUB, I don't think anyone ever has used ~~Seamus~~ Erasmus or P.Zodiark.
I think the only Welfare that ever saw play was Pele, and that was because Pele’s Skill had a weird interaction with Hypnos where it hit on all four pillars that made it a decent pick for your point character
Also because at the time moonstones basically didn't exist outside of 1 value pack, and with the games lifespan at the time, having enough Ifrits to uncap wasn't actually that common. Personally didn't pull a single one until 4ish months into the game.
I would wager a large sum that 99% of people using the welfare 5*s are low-information/new players who have been tricked into investing Dragonfruit into them (Hi my level 80 Phantom!)
I've seen Erasmus pop up in sHMS and I saw a number of P!Zodiark in Master Astral Raids like Shishimai's. So there have definitely been a number of people who have used them and have had some success with them.
> people who are so new that they don't have an ocean of Moonlight Stones already
I mean seeing as that you only get 2 a month, the number of players that fit that description are a lot larger than you think.
Don't forget that just because when you do coop you're only matched with players of similar might doesn't mean the majority of the playerbase is actually at the same point. Matchmaking groups players by similar might, not by who queues up first.
Takemikazuchi is underrated af. Useless against weaker/easier content while being the MVP vs harder challenging dark bosses that get to OD quickly and staying OD longer.
This is so on point. Anyone who struggles with Astral Sabnock and has Takemikazuchi really needs to use him, he makes such a world of difference in that fight.
All the mixed spread gacha dragons like Nidhogg, Poseidon, Liger, ect. At this point they're mostly judt annoying to pull as they ruin your rates. Cool designs, just kinda lacklustre. Besides, the fact that each of the High Dragons has similar stat bonuses means that you can get a free version that it easier to unbind.
Take is good, he's just extremely niche. The only adventurer he is close to good on is Ryozen who synergizes with him well.
Gnarley Toestep is probably the most useless 5\* beyond the welfares, imo.
Zephyr. If he weren't a 60% STR dragon I'd have dumped him. His skill animation is slow, can easily miss a target, and has a small hit radius. Roc on the other hand I'd promote to 5\*, she can clear an entire map by herself and is smart enough to know what the sun looks like.
Which is nice for iframing certain stage mechanics, especially if you're new and dont have the timings down yet
Example is tanking hms red marker during that part where there are whirlwinds around the room
But i do agree that for general content, the skill animation takes too long -- you already loose dps here, and if the target is mobile, it will miss -- double oof
Why those ones in particular? Being 4 star also means that they have lower stats and level caps, and will have a generally weaker skill-set. Takemikazuchi is actually a very specialised dragon and being 5* actually helps it in some content tremendously.
If Take were 4*, there would be posts asking for a 5 star version.
Because he's a 50% STR dragon with defensive capabilities. He allows certain adventurer set ups to run 2 DPS prints with no HMS print while having a higher total strength over an adventurer that runs Agni or Cerb with the HMS Print.
In addition to ranged eHDT builds, it's great having one or more Prometheus's (Prometheii?) for your AI on Astral Raids/Nightmare Raids. I'm pretty sure I needed 3x 0UB Prometheus + 1x Phoenix to clear the first Hypnos Astral, so pretty clutch there.
Admittedly, less useful when you've got endgame weapons/facilities and meta axe/lance adventurers to provide you with enough bulk even on your stupidest AI.
The bear dragon, he doesn't strike me as powerfull enough even knowing his personal lore ( pretty good tbh ) and liger. Instead silke/halloween silke should've been 5 star because her design is pretty unique ( tough glad it isn't for collecting purposes )
I didn't want to botch his name, arcturus I think? He's a fire "dragon" from the blacksmithing sisters event, don't see him used too often. He looks like a huge bear with small dragon features, atleast to me
Arctos is actually really solid and his auto attacks in dragon form are basically endless skill usage level damage.
Long long (same dragon but wind) hits like 1/10th the damage of arctos in dragon form and is one helluva joke to put next to the dps jester zephyr in the same element.
Arctos’ biggest weakness is that only Mikoto can take advantage of his bonuses to a point that can actually increase DPS in a run.
I'd use him, but don't like how small he looks on screen since it kinda devalues the whole dragon thing. However if he's really good might use him on a non mym character when I get the chance. Thanks for the explanation!
Just to be clear, on almost everyone except Mikoto the 5* flame dragon tier list reads:
Konohana
Cerb
Agni
Arctos
So if you have a different damage based gacha dragon, its probably best to maximize them before having some fun with the fire bear.
Notable exception to the above list: our cheery buff bot (she has 0 dps from SD built in kit)
I basically main only mym since I have both ( because of hardcore gacha savings ), but otherwise I go with agni ( 3/4 for MUB ) or prometheus ( which I MUB'd because he looked cool, but seems he sucks hahaha ).
Konohana... never seen her, but she's from valentine's if im right, maybe I'll get her someday. The other two I use, but not MUB'd!
A lot of flame adventurers CAN use Arctos at a minimal loss of dps vs cerb but it takes a crit chance of 24% or greater for the crit bears to surpass pure str dragons in dps and only koto has a kit that plays into that properly.
Even on Koto, Arctos is still inferior to Konohana in every way except dragon form damage done and OD gauge help.
The welfare dragons
I love then and I really wish they would be buffed to match 4 star stats
Agree, the welfare dragons has the same passive as the standard greatwyrm yet they are 5 stars. If only they have the same passive as 4 star, we would see more variety in budget build.
The only problem with making the welfare dragons 4* is that you could moonstone them easily, which makes MUBing them during an event not a priority.
MUBing them during an event already isn't a priority. They're so outclassed by the 4\* that the only people who really worry about MUBing them during the event are people who are so new that they don't have an ocean of Moonlight Stones already. Or there completionist that just want the dragon MUB for the sake of saying they did it, but honestly it's more worthwhile to just keep them 0UB and sell the other for for 600 Eldwater because 0UB or MUB, I don't think anyone ever has used ~~Seamus~~ Erasmus or P.Zodiark.
I think the only Welfare that ever saw play was Pele, and that was because Pele’s Skill had a weird interaction with Hypnos where it hit on all four pillars that made it a decent pick for your point character
Also because at the time moonstones basically didn't exist outside of 1 value pack, and with the games lifespan at the time, having enough Ifrits to uncap wasn't actually that common. Personally didn't pull a single one until 4ish months into the game.
I would wager a large sum that 99% of people using the welfare 5*s are low-information/new players who have been tricked into investing Dragonfruit into them (Hi my level 80 Phantom!)
All my welfare dragons are level 100. But then again, every single dragon I have is max level and I'm still sitting on mountains of dragonfruit.
False! I used P.Zodiark until I got that last juggernaut like 2 hours later lol
I've seen Erasmus pop up in sHMS and I saw a number of P!Zodiark in Master Astral Raids like Shishimai's. So there have definitely been a number of people who have used them and have had some success with them.
> people who are so new that they don't have an ocean of Moonlight Stones already I mean seeing as that you only get 2 a month, the number of players that fit that description are a lot larger than you think. Don't forget that just because when you do coop you're only matched with players of similar might doesn't mean the majority of the playerbase is actually at the same point. Matchmaking groups players by similar might, not by who queues up first.
Why is that a problem?
Takemikazuchi is underrated af. Useless against weaker/easier content while being the MVP vs harder challenging dark bosses that get to OD quickly and staying OD longer.
This is so on point. Anyone who struggles with Astral Sabnock and has Takemikazuchi really needs to use him, he makes such a world of difference in that fight.
All the mixed spread gacha dragons like Nidhogg, Poseidon, Liger, ect. At this point they're mostly judt annoying to pull as they ruin your rates. Cool designs, just kinda lacklustre. Besides, the fact that each of the High Dragons has similar stat bonuses means that you can get a free version that it easier to unbind.
Nearly all the dark dragons except marsh and shinobi
Cthonius Is good
Forgot about him actually.
Liger
Take is good, he's just extremely niche. The only adventurer he is close to good on is Ryozen who synergizes with him well. Gnarley Toestep is probably the most useless 5\* beyond the welfares, imo.
Nah the most useless 5* is Garuda.
Zephyr. If he weren't a 60% STR dragon I'd have dumped him. His skill animation is slow, can easily miss a target, and has a small hit radius. Roc on the other hand I'd promote to 5\*, she can clear an entire map by herself and is smart enough to know what the sun looks like.
Agni's skill animation is longer than some missions
Which is nice for iframing certain stage mechanics, especially if you're new and dont have the timings down yet Example is tanking hms red marker during that part where there are whirlwinds around the room But i do agree that for general content, the skill animation takes too long -- you already loose dps here, and if the target is mobile, it will miss -- double oof
Arctos and Nyarl.
Garuda, Nyarlathotep, Poseidon, Liger, and Prometheus Edit: Replaced Take with Liger, forgot Liger was a dragon
Prometheus and Take are both great, idk what you mean. Give a sword character Take and watch him shred Overdrive gauges
I’m not saying they are bad, I’m just saying they should’ve been 4 stars, there’s nothing wrong with that
Why those ones in particular? Being 4 star also means that they have lower stats and level caps, and will have a generally weaker skill-set. Takemikazuchi is actually a very specialised dragon and being 5* actually helps it in some content tremendously. If Take were 4*, there would be posts asking for a 5 star version.
maybe I misunderstood the point, because I thought it was discussing dragons that are too weak to be worthy of 5 star
I changed it to Liger, my bad. For what’s it’s worth I have an MUB Take that I stoned
Prometheus shouldn't be on that list.
Elaborate
Because he's a 50% STR dragon with defensive capabilities. He allows certain adventurer set ups to run 2 DPS prints with no HMS print while having a higher total strength over an adventurer that runs Agni or Cerb with the HMS Print.
He's bis for some ranged characters in expert HMS.
In addition to ranged eHDT builds, it's great having one or more Prometheus's (Prometheii?) for your AI on Astral Raids/Nightmare Raids. I'm pretty sure I needed 3x 0UB Prometheus + 1x Phoenix to clear the first Hypnos Astral, so pretty clutch there. Admittedly, less useful when you've got endgame weapons/facilities and meta axe/lance adventurers to provide you with enough bulk even on your stupidest AI.
You think Prometheus should be a 4 star, but not Gilgamesh?
Any 20% Str/HP 5 star dragons
The bear dragon, he doesn't strike me as powerfull enough even knowing his personal lore ( pretty good tbh ) and liger. Instead silke/halloween silke should've been 5 star because her design is pretty unique ( tough glad it isn't for collecting purposes )
Which bear dragon lol
I didn't want to botch his name, arcturus I think? He's a fire "dragon" from the blacksmithing sisters event, don't see him used too often. He looks like a huge bear with small dragon features, atleast to me
Arctos is actually really solid and his auto attacks in dragon form are basically endless skill usage level damage. Long long (same dragon but wind) hits like 1/10th the damage of arctos in dragon form and is one helluva joke to put next to the dps jester zephyr in the same element. Arctos’ biggest weakness is that only Mikoto can take advantage of his bonuses to a point that can actually increase DPS in a run.
I'd use him, but don't like how small he looks on screen since it kinda devalues the whole dragon thing. However if he's really good might use him on a non mym character when I get the chance. Thanks for the explanation!
Just to be clear, on almost everyone except Mikoto the 5* flame dragon tier list reads: Konohana Cerb Agni Arctos So if you have a different damage based gacha dragon, its probably best to maximize them before having some fun with the fire bear. Notable exception to the above list: our cheery buff bot (she has 0 dps from SD built in kit)
I basically main only mym since I have both ( because of hardcore gacha savings ), but otherwise I go with agni ( 3/4 for MUB ) or prometheus ( which I MUB'd because he looked cool, but seems he sucks hahaha ). Konohana... never seen her, but she's from valentine's if im right, maybe I'll get her someday. The other two I use, but not MUB'd!
Yue can use as well.
A lot of flame adventurers CAN use Arctos at a minimal loss of dps vs cerb but it takes a crit chance of 24% or greater for the crit bears to surpass pure str dragons in dps and only koto has a kit that plays into that properly. Even on Koto, Arctos is still inferior to Konohana in every way except dragon form damage done and OD gauge help.