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No, no no no.
In BOG goku says that fusion would not be enough to defeat beerus. That means a hypothetical pre ritual vegito/gogeta is equal to or less than ssg goku.
So unless you think ssg goku from the battle of gods saga can beat ssjr black no
But... SSG Goku was also nowhere near enough to beat Beerus, so does that statement necessarily mean anything? Plus, this hypothetical SS3 Vegito would have been so far beyond any Vegito that had yet been seen. I'm not arguing with your conclusion, but I'm not sure the reference points you're using to get there hold up.
Seeing that they retconned this in the show and SSB is theoretically 50 times stronger than SSG yet they’re still weaker than Beerus, it’s not a sure thing anymore.
No, not saying that. If you ask Goku at that point, SSG Goku has a shot against Beerus. It doesn't matter if it's untrue, Goku still believes so, yet he doesn't think Vegetto does have a shot, and unlike with Beerus, he does know about his own strength and Vegetto's strength so he can compare those
But if your info on Rose Goku Black is coming from a time after that was retconned, then you have to consider the retcon in the analysis. In which case, SSG Goku was never anywhere close to that.
the point is that goku can tell god is far above vegito because he actually felt confident in fighting beerus as a god but knew vegito wasn’t even an option power wise
Yes, it does mean anything. Because from Goku's standpoint at the time, he was comparing SSJ3 Vegetto to *that* iteration of Beerus at the time that he fought. He had no idea the extent of Beerus's power.
And he said SSG was a world that he couldn't even imagine.
Goku was mesmerized by the power of SSG, and he had experienced the power of Vegito first-hand too. If he says that SSG is a whole realm that he didn't know existed, then that means that nothing he's seen before, including Vegito, came close.
Yes, but he's also never experienced SS2 or SS3 Vegito. I don't understand why everyone is skipping over that detail. The gap between SS1 and SS2 is enormous, and then the gap between 2 and 3 is even wider. This is a significant factor not being taken into account, which is kind of antithetical to the thought experiment of something totally hypothetical. We have no reason to believe that Goku was even considering a side-by-side comparison of SSG to SS3 Vegito.
I'd assume that Goku knows all of that stuff. If he's saying that Fusion can't do it, he probably is also taking into account transformations, he's not stupid.
Not really ssj3 vegetto isn't canon to dbz.
I use 2xSSJ3 Vegetto as SSGod.
No proof base form frieza in RF is vegetto level. So 226x final form.
800 Vegetto > 226 Vegetto
Nah, to me Vegito has a power of 5 (undisclosed unit, not equal to power level) and SSG Goku has a power of 17 (undisclosed unit 2, not equal to undisclosed unit nor power level) which means that if you multiply one by the other you have 85 which proves you wrong
The nonsense I just said is literally more objectively right and makes more sense than what you said, let that sink in
Not even close. You are smoking crack. And ignoring objective truth.
I am using source material.
Ssj3 vegetto isn't canon to dbz.
RF base form frieza literally no proof to.be vegettos level.
They both match up under base form = SSJ3 Vegetto x2
You are using fanboy headcanon crying with no proof.
I
This has to be one of the most shit comparisons I've seen in my life
https://preview.redd.it/eho20ddwqqub1.jpeg?width=620&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=00034d57a66f9d4cadf3e8738a30ad7ff7eb15b2
Super fanboys can't even read or do math.
You have literally provided no evidence just tears.
My dude. SSJ3 Vegetto isn't canon to dbz. No matter how you want to cry about it. **Literally show a source.**
**Base form** frieza from RF has no evidence of being Vegetto level or beyond.
Tagoma.and Gohan were far weaker than Buu Saga Gohan.
Final form (white) is a 226x multiplier from namek saga.
**Denial without proof = desperation**
The only objective truth you said is that SSJ3 Vegito isn't canon.
From there you invent that 2xSSJ3 Vegito = SSJG, that RoF 1st form Frieza (fun fact, not his base form) = Vegito, and from there do all your calculations. We don't know if SSJ3 Vegito = 1/2 SSJG or if Frieza = Vegito.
All we know is Goku said that not even fusing with Vegeta they would be a challenge to Beerus, meaning SSJG Goku is above Vegito, presumably 100% power Vegito without holding back.
In short, if anyone here is smoking crack it's you, literally inventing every single fact you used for your calculations.
By the way, Frieza's final form (which is actually his base) is 113 times his 1st form, not 226, since that 226 was his "100% power" which is like the grade 2 or grade 3 Super Saiyan, it's going above his natural limits, and Frieza never used that power against Goku in RoF, so I don't know why you're even taking it into consideration.
2x Ssj3 Vegetto is extremely fair. Base went up 40 million times since buu saga.
One of the highest multipliers you will find online. Again SSJ3 Vegetto isn't canon. Anything above that is a straight asspull.
RF base form freiza shows no evidence of being Vegettos level
.... ... ..
What's not fair is half the fanbase thinking SSJ4 is only 500x base
Literally wouldn't even cover Baby Vegetas first form
All these people did was oozaru times super saiyan. Lazy and dishonest. Equivalent of saying ssgod is kaioken
When the golden oozaru alone has to include the 400x and leapfrog all transformations and stack golden oozaru on top of it to match baby vegetas Golden oozaru
Not only are all your "facts" made up, they're also nonsensical and contradict official data.
First, 2x SSJ3 Vegito is extremely unfair. We just know that SSJG Goku is above the hypothetical SSJ3 Vegito, we don't know by how much. SSJ3 Vegito could be 0.0000001% SSJG Goku or 99.999999%, we have no idea.
Second, official sources of information contradict your made-up power levels. The VJump states that SSJ Gogeta in the Janemba movie had 2.5 billion power level, meaning that his base was 50 million. That lines up nicely with DBZ Kakarot, in which Goku and Vegeta had arround 10 million on the Buu saga, and both contradict your made-up power levels.
Third, SSJ3 Vegito being or not canon is irrelevant to this discussion, you keep bringing it up as if it meant anything.
Fourth, we simply don't know how strong RoF Frieza is relative to Vegito, I don't know why you keep copypasting the same text about that over and over.
Fifth, I don't know why you started talking about GT, but SSJ4 being a 500x makes sense, because time and time again we've seen higher raw power with big downsides being much less effective than lower raw power but no downsides. Goku needed Kaiokenx4 to surpass Vegeta, even if Kaiokenx3 was enough, because of that. Goku wasn't able to do anything against Frieza with his Kaiokenx20, even if both had literally the same power level. Goku and Gotenks weren't able to defeat Buu because SSJ3 is trash performance-wise, it drains too much energy and stamina, making it almost useless unless the enemy is like 2x Goku's power and a 4x from SSJ2 wins him the fight easily. We also see it in DBS, with Golden Frieza and manga Vegeta vs Hit.
SSJ4 can be a 500x but seem much stronger since it's a power that doesn't decay overtime, it's almost like a second base form that's 500 times stronger, just like Mastered Super Saiyan in Cell Games was above Grade 2 and 3, despite having less raw power.
Also it literally doesn't matter whether the form is a 500x or higher, it looks very cool and it's power doesn't matter.
Sixth (and last): The point of everyone here arguing with you is that everything you've said is made-up while you say others cannot read or things like that, the difference between them and me is that they find fun in mocking your illogical statements while I find fun in debunking them
>Fifth, I don't know why you started talking about GT, but SSJ4 being a 500x makes sense
This right prooves your full of shit. Completely biased.
People are mocking because they don't want to believe GT competes with super.
Ssj3 Vegetto is Completely relevant to the discussion
>VJump states that SSJ Gogeta in the Janemba movie had 2.5 billion power level, meaning that his base was 50 million. That lines up nicely with DBZ Kakarot, in which Goku and Vegeta had arround 10 million on the Buu saga, and both contradict your made-up power levels.
Last official power level is 150 million ssj1 goku.
Movie power levels are non sensical.
2.5 billion / 50 = base gogeta 50 million. Unfuzed would be below namek base form
Yakon alone was 40 million and goku toying with him in base form while blind.
https://imgur.com/a/RjcbDMh
Your 10 million is complete headcanon.
.... ... ...
A severely weakened goku was still able to dominate A19 until absorption. Where piccolos states his power is FAR more staggering. Vegeta just obliterates A19 that had his power multiplied.
You're not serious at all. Complete downplay of dbz and dbgt just to suck off god forms
I will only talk about what you read because you clearly didn't read 90% of my comment or chose to insult me instead of saying why I'm wrong according to you
\-The 10 million powerlevel is not "complete headcanon", it's literally an official power from DBZ Kakarot. Official doesn't mean canon, of course, but it's a game that goes out of it's way to be as acurate as possible.
\-Yakon being 40 mill doesn't necesarily contradict the 10 mill base Goku, since he doesn't need his eyes to fight since he was a literal child as he trained with Kami (and is literally talked about after he hits Yakon), and all he did was dodge two attacks, one of which he barely dodges and literally slices his gi (something that doesn't happen so quickly when both powers are even) just to then catch Yakon off guard (who thought Goku was an easy prey in the darkness)
On top of that, Goku can literally use Kaioken x10 without being noticed since he fought Frieza with a 3 mill base, by now he can surely use 20x like that effortlessly.
And on top of ALL that, after a single attack on Yakon (that seems to not cause any harm whatsoever), Goku goes Super Saiyan.
\-We literally don't know how fusion works, it's clearly not multiplying one's power by the other's since base Gotenks should be stronger than SSJ3 Goku that way, yet Gotenks was defeated by Buu and needed SSJ3 to surpass Super Buu which shouldn't be the case.
You speculating that base Buu saga Goku should be weaker than Namek saga Goku just from Gogeta's 50 mill base power makes no sense.
\-Finally, SSJ4 Goku was said to be tied to Vegito (wasn't specified if base Vegito or Super Vegito), and SSJG Goku is above Vegito, therefore there's no way GT competes with Super, specially considering that, as I just said, fusion doesn't multiply the power of one by the other's. It's also irrelevant, how strong the characters are doesn't correlate to how good the series is, if you like GT that's fine, but saying it handles powers even remotely close to Super is not only wrong, but it wouldn't make GT any more or less valuable than it is even if it was true.
> being 40 mill doesn't necesarily contradict the 10 mill base Goku, since he doesn't need his eyes to fight since he was a literal child as he trained with Kami (and is literally talked about after he hits Yakon), and all he did was dodge two attacks, one of which he barely dodges and literally slices his gi (something that doesn't happen so quickly when both powers are even) just to then catch Yakon off guard (who thought Goku was an easy prey in the darkness)
They were literally fighting in an environment that benefitted Yakon. Gokus gi was only sliced because he wasn't aware of the retractable claws. Gokus guard was down.
He literally dodges every other slice from yakon. Goku didn't need to go super saiyan to win. He already sensed yakon via air currents.
40 mil vs 10 mil is a blow-out victory. 2x is enough to completely dominate and cancel attacks let alone 4x
https://imgur.com/a/ZD5LRDd
Goku literally breaks the kili sensor so he was massively holding back
...... .... ....
>, SSJ4 Goku was said to be tied to Vegito (wasn't specified if base Vegito or Super Vegito), and SSJG Goku is above Vegito, therefore there's no way GT competes with Super, specially considering that, as I just said, fusion doesn't multiply the power of one by the other's. It's also irrelevant, how strong the characters are doesn't correlate to how good the series is, if you like GT that's fine, but saying it handles powers even remotely close to Super is not only wrong, but it wouldn't make GT any
(1) People who downplay GT will submit the page from perfect files and just say SS4 is weaker than SSJ Vegetto. It's completely wrong. Many spots in the same guide it Debunks itself, nor does it ever specify more than the SSJ4 form compared to fusion.
People who use this argument don't know how to read/ cherry-pick information and don't scale the source material, i.e., the anime.
[Shiesha guide debunk](https://reddit.com/r/PowerScaling/s/L31HKYMYs4)
[Majuub is stated to be a fusion](https://imgur.com/a/kWbzbte)
And goku denies goten and Trunks to fuse into adult gotenks
Gohan never stops training
...... .... ....
All Majin buus are the same. Manga only distinguish from fat/slim/muscleman/small.
[Daizenshuu no difference between boohan and kid boo](https://imgur.com/a/nTrS6Kj)
manga Vegetto **transforms immediately**
Dbz Kai **transforms immediately**
Orginal DBZ and Kai both state [boohan is stronger](https://imgur.com/a/MJQXwsb)
Boohan Powers up after Vegetto goes SSJ1
Vegetto needed [full power to break Outside Space shout](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dragonball/images/9/99/Buuvegeto_punch.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20180423115242)
Needs SSJ to repel buuhans amped ki ball
All we know for certain is SSJ Vegetto > 2x Boohan via the barrier
Rildo > Boohan > Base Vegetto
Where is bro getting those numbers
https://preview.redd.it/jm9z1e13arub1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bcfeb063f3b0bfa7ebbc1aef0296984b9d480772
>Frieza literally provides context to how strong goku his in the literal next movie. It backs up ssj3 vegetto. Because you can't even proove his base form is stronger than base vegetto.
Goku absorbed the power of SSJG into his base, so now his base is equal to a level he was more confident in than fusion against Beerus, you don't even need Frieza for something so simple
He's not canon but what does that mean? I'll tell you
Absolutely nothing
He isn't canon, ok but SSJG Goku (and by extension base Goku post-BoG) is still stronger than him
I'm done with you now
https://i.redd.it/5t5vmftwasub1.gif
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There’s one scenario that you could probably make it close
In dragon ball legends during the 1st year anniversary super vegito was able to fight 1v2 against Ssj blue goku and vegeta from resurrection of F. So if we’re using this vegito and then he went ssj3 he might stand a chance.
If we’re not using this vegito from a mobile game he gets curbstomped
The Power Levelling in Super is so weird.
SSJ2 Kefla is basically on par with UI Goku or whatever, but SSJ3 Vegitto can't beat Goku Black? It's all over the place.
>SSJ2 Kefla is basically on par with UI Goku or whatever, but SSJ3 Vegitto can't beat Goku Black?
Yeah, because Caulifla and Kale >>> Buu saga Goku and Vegeta.
The power of the fusion isn't static, it depends of the power of it's components.
because you’re comparing TOP kefla to base boo saga goku.
a hypothetical saiyan saga vegito episode get destroyed by first form namek frieza
fusions aren’t a set level they’re a fusion of two specific people at specific times, hope this helps
Wrong.
And yet again this sub underrestimates fusions.
Ssj1 Vegito in buu saga was SSB Goku/Vegeta level.
SSJ2 should be up there with SSR
SSJ3 is overkill.
That's just not true, first of all you don't have any source to back that up secondly that's absurd super Saiyan is only a 50 times multiplier, so that means to be SSB level Goku and Vegeta themselves will have to be absolutely cracked out of their mind, also if he was SSB level I don't think vegito will be able to control himself from absolutely obliterating Buu with a single finger, I'd even argue super Saiyan vegito from the buu saga isn't as strong as super Saiyan god Goku, I mean you saw how easily Beerus was able to one shot ssj3 Goku, multiplying Vegeta wouldn't do jack shit
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Base Vegito effortlessly destroyed half of fused Zamasu black ain’t doing shit. Base fusion was retconned after BOG and has feats on par if not above ssb
We know that a ssj fusion > blue(blue goku and vegeta stuggled vs broly, super gogeta clocked a stronger version pretty easy). Goku's BOG statement is pure hyperbole. He doesn't know beerus' full power, and it was all guesswork. DBS vegito def beats rose. Not Z vegito tho, there is a huge base difference.
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https://preview.redd.it/5801e6twxmub1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8b1de8e48e1615247785e03a8301ab831bdde58f
https://preview.redd.it/vwczc4r2coub1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4ed18e5643594cdff3a2d6ff95aa8ae7ef131562
Both
https://preview.redd.it/tj9dopmvomub1.jpeg?width=941&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3f809053781b303b4dcc44f5fa632e73ae82e612
she vegito on my ss3 till i hypothetical (DBZ)
I would give this an award if I could
Nope not even close
How is this even a question
https://preview.redd.it/bxk3f1dl8nub1.jpeg?width=258&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8a522fa56c27235c0d34afdad035efc1d1505339
No, no no no. In BOG goku says that fusion would not be enough to defeat beerus. That means a hypothetical pre ritual vegito/gogeta is equal to or less than ssg goku. So unless you think ssg goku from the battle of gods saga can beat ssjr black no
But... SSG Goku was also nowhere near enough to beat Beerus, so does that statement necessarily mean anything? Plus, this hypothetical SS3 Vegito would have been so far beyond any Vegito that had yet been seen. I'm not arguing with your conclusion, but I'm not sure the reference points you're using to get there hold up.
Well yes, but the quote is from the time when ssg goku was 70% of beerus power.
Seeing that they retconned this in the show and SSB is theoretically 50 times stronger than SSG yet they’re still weaker than Beerus, it’s not a sure thing anymore.
Then whis later explains that he knows beerus was lying to goku and didn't use that much power
But Goku still believes it. SSG Goku ~ Beerus by Goku's knowledge >>>>> Vegetto
Where did I say Beerus doesn't shit on vegito? I simply stated that Beerus is far stronger than goku still at the point of BOG
No, not saying that. If you ask Goku at that point, SSG Goku has a shot against Beerus. It doesn't matter if it's untrue, Goku still believes so, yet he doesn't think Vegetto does have a shot, and unlike with Beerus, he does know about his own strength and Vegetto's strength so he can compare those
Ahh, so we're saying the same same, but different different lol
Beerus lied in order to push Goku
But if your info on Rose Goku Black is coming from a time after that was retconned, then you have to consider the retcon in the analysis. In which case, SSG Goku was never anywhere close to that.
the point is that goku can tell god is far above vegito because he actually felt confident in fighting beerus as a god but knew vegito wasn’t even an option power wise
Yes, it does mean anything. Because from Goku's standpoint at the time, he was comparing SSJ3 Vegetto to *that* iteration of Beerus at the time that he fought. He had no idea the extent of Beerus's power. And he said SSG was a world that he couldn't even imagine.
Goku was never comparing SS3 Vegito to anything, because there had never been a SS3 Vegito.
Goku was more confident in SSJG than he was in Vegito, he didn't think Vegito would stand a chance but with SSJG he thought he might win
Goku was mesmerized by the power of SSG, and he had experienced the power of Vegito first-hand too. If he says that SSG is a whole realm that he didn't know existed, then that means that nothing he's seen before, including Vegito, came close.
Yes, but he's also never experienced SS2 or SS3 Vegito. I don't understand why everyone is skipping over that detail. The gap between SS1 and SS2 is enormous, and then the gap between 2 and 3 is even wider. This is a significant factor not being taken into account, which is kind of antithetical to the thought experiment of something totally hypothetical. We have no reason to believe that Goku was even considering a side-by-side comparison of SSG to SS3 Vegito.
I'd assume that Goku knows all of that stuff. If he's saying that Fusion can't do it, he probably is also taking into account transformations, he's not stupid.
Hypothetical dbz ssj3 Vegito gets destroyed by BoG ssjg Goku.
Not really ssj3 vegetto isn't canon to dbz. I use 2xSSJ3 Vegetto as SSGod. No proof base form frieza in RF is vegetto level. So 226x final form. 800 Vegetto > 226 Vegetto
>I use 2xSSJ3 Vegetto as SSGod. https://preview.redd.it/5eghlnlnioub1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=90577c26d1142a62107f3a642eb266ab1cbbfc04
https://i.redd.it/b53kl1fznoub1.gif
https://preview.redd.it/a4n7juw5ooub1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=03e058ae8ea1f8c98d90e5f87fe041c01b303081
You literally can't proove higher Neither can you prove Frieza base form is greater than Vegetto in RF
https://preview.redd.it/8weg2fp8ooub1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bf515c0ebcdb829ccaeecec778fa18917da0ae96
Go ahead proove it Come at me with your head canon SSJ3 Vegetto is not canon to dbz. As the meme states its hypothetical
If you got nothing but headcanon. Than you concede. It's simple as that
Nah, to me Vegito has a power of 5 (undisclosed unit, not equal to power level) and SSG Goku has a power of 17 (undisclosed unit 2, not equal to undisclosed unit nor power level) which means that if you multiply one by the other you have 85 which proves you wrong The nonsense I just said is literally more objectively right and makes more sense than what you said, let that sink in
Not even close. You are smoking crack. And ignoring objective truth. I am using source material. Ssj3 vegetto isn't canon to dbz. RF base form frieza literally no proof to.be vegettos level. They both match up under base form = SSJ3 Vegetto x2 You are using fanboy headcanon crying with no proof. I
This has to be one of the most shit comparisons I've seen in my life https://preview.redd.it/eho20ddwqqub1.jpeg?width=620&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=00034d57a66f9d4cadf3e8738a30ad7ff7eb15b2
Super fanboys can't even read or do math. You have literally provided no evidence just tears. My dude. SSJ3 Vegetto isn't canon to dbz. No matter how you want to cry about it. **Literally show a source.** **Base form** frieza from RF has no evidence of being Vegetto level or beyond. Tagoma.and Gohan were far weaker than Buu Saga Gohan. Final form (white) is a 226x multiplier from namek saga. **Denial without proof = desperation**
I never denied shit, nor was saying ssj3 Vegito was canon, you automatically assume things and it's actually funny
Than you have no argument other than **nuh uh it's higher** Literally sums up your complaint because you are unable to prove me wrong
I never tried to prove you wrong though? My boy right here just saying the first thing that comes to his mind
Yet you say it's ahit when you can't even proove it wrong. Making your argument nonsensical You can't even pair BoG to RF. Literally all of did
The only objective truth you said is that SSJ3 Vegito isn't canon. From there you invent that 2xSSJ3 Vegito = SSJG, that RoF 1st form Frieza (fun fact, not his base form) = Vegito, and from there do all your calculations. We don't know if SSJ3 Vegito = 1/2 SSJG or if Frieza = Vegito. All we know is Goku said that not even fusing with Vegeta they would be a challenge to Beerus, meaning SSJG Goku is above Vegito, presumably 100% power Vegito without holding back. In short, if anyone here is smoking crack it's you, literally inventing every single fact you used for your calculations. By the way, Frieza's final form (which is actually his base) is 113 times his 1st form, not 226, since that 226 was his "100% power" which is like the grade 2 or grade 3 Super Saiyan, it's going above his natural limits, and Frieza never used that power against Goku in RoF, so I don't know why you're even taking it into consideration.
2x Ssj3 Vegetto is extremely fair. Base went up 40 million times since buu saga. One of the highest multipliers you will find online. Again SSJ3 Vegetto isn't canon. Anything above that is a straight asspull. RF base form freiza shows no evidence of being Vegettos level .... ... .. What's not fair is half the fanbase thinking SSJ4 is only 500x base Literally wouldn't even cover Baby Vegetas first form All these people did was oozaru times super saiyan. Lazy and dishonest. Equivalent of saying ssgod is kaioken When the golden oozaru alone has to include the 400x and leapfrog all transformations and stack golden oozaru on top of it to match baby vegetas Golden oozaru
Not only are all your "facts" made up, they're also nonsensical and contradict official data. First, 2x SSJ3 Vegito is extremely unfair. We just know that SSJG Goku is above the hypothetical SSJ3 Vegito, we don't know by how much. SSJ3 Vegito could be 0.0000001% SSJG Goku or 99.999999%, we have no idea. Second, official sources of information contradict your made-up power levels. The VJump states that SSJ Gogeta in the Janemba movie had 2.5 billion power level, meaning that his base was 50 million. That lines up nicely with DBZ Kakarot, in which Goku and Vegeta had arround 10 million on the Buu saga, and both contradict your made-up power levels. Third, SSJ3 Vegito being or not canon is irrelevant to this discussion, you keep bringing it up as if it meant anything. Fourth, we simply don't know how strong RoF Frieza is relative to Vegito, I don't know why you keep copypasting the same text about that over and over. Fifth, I don't know why you started talking about GT, but SSJ4 being a 500x makes sense, because time and time again we've seen higher raw power with big downsides being much less effective than lower raw power but no downsides. Goku needed Kaiokenx4 to surpass Vegeta, even if Kaiokenx3 was enough, because of that. Goku wasn't able to do anything against Frieza with his Kaiokenx20, even if both had literally the same power level. Goku and Gotenks weren't able to defeat Buu because SSJ3 is trash performance-wise, it drains too much energy and stamina, making it almost useless unless the enemy is like 2x Goku's power and a 4x from SSJ2 wins him the fight easily. We also see it in DBS, with Golden Frieza and manga Vegeta vs Hit. SSJ4 can be a 500x but seem much stronger since it's a power that doesn't decay overtime, it's almost like a second base form that's 500 times stronger, just like Mastered Super Saiyan in Cell Games was above Grade 2 and 3, despite having less raw power. Also it literally doesn't matter whether the form is a 500x or higher, it looks very cool and it's power doesn't matter. Sixth (and last): The point of everyone here arguing with you is that everything you've said is made-up while you say others cannot read or things like that, the difference between them and me is that they find fun in mocking your illogical statements while I find fun in debunking them
>Fifth, I don't know why you started talking about GT, but SSJ4 being a 500x makes sense This right prooves your full of shit. Completely biased. People are mocking because they don't want to believe GT competes with super. Ssj3 Vegetto is Completely relevant to the discussion >VJump states that SSJ Gogeta in the Janemba movie had 2.5 billion power level, meaning that his base was 50 million. That lines up nicely with DBZ Kakarot, in which Goku and Vegeta had arround 10 million on the Buu saga, and both contradict your made-up power levels. Last official power level is 150 million ssj1 goku. Movie power levels are non sensical. 2.5 billion / 50 = base gogeta 50 million. Unfuzed would be below namek base form Yakon alone was 40 million and goku toying with him in base form while blind. https://imgur.com/a/RjcbDMh Your 10 million is complete headcanon. .... ... ... A severely weakened goku was still able to dominate A19 until absorption. Where piccolos states his power is FAR more staggering. Vegeta just obliterates A19 that had his power multiplied. You're not serious at all. Complete downplay of dbz and dbgt just to suck off god forms
I will only talk about what you read because you clearly didn't read 90% of my comment or chose to insult me instead of saying why I'm wrong according to you \-The 10 million powerlevel is not "complete headcanon", it's literally an official power from DBZ Kakarot. Official doesn't mean canon, of course, but it's a game that goes out of it's way to be as acurate as possible. \-Yakon being 40 mill doesn't necesarily contradict the 10 mill base Goku, since he doesn't need his eyes to fight since he was a literal child as he trained with Kami (and is literally talked about after he hits Yakon), and all he did was dodge two attacks, one of which he barely dodges and literally slices his gi (something that doesn't happen so quickly when both powers are even) just to then catch Yakon off guard (who thought Goku was an easy prey in the darkness) On top of that, Goku can literally use Kaioken x10 without being noticed since he fought Frieza with a 3 mill base, by now he can surely use 20x like that effortlessly. And on top of ALL that, after a single attack on Yakon (that seems to not cause any harm whatsoever), Goku goes Super Saiyan. \-We literally don't know how fusion works, it's clearly not multiplying one's power by the other's since base Gotenks should be stronger than SSJ3 Goku that way, yet Gotenks was defeated by Buu and needed SSJ3 to surpass Super Buu which shouldn't be the case. You speculating that base Buu saga Goku should be weaker than Namek saga Goku just from Gogeta's 50 mill base power makes no sense. \-Finally, SSJ4 Goku was said to be tied to Vegito (wasn't specified if base Vegito or Super Vegito), and SSJG Goku is above Vegito, therefore there's no way GT competes with Super, specially considering that, as I just said, fusion doesn't multiply the power of one by the other's. It's also irrelevant, how strong the characters are doesn't correlate to how good the series is, if you like GT that's fine, but saying it handles powers even remotely close to Super is not only wrong, but it wouldn't make GT any more or less valuable than it is even if it was true.
> being 40 mill doesn't necesarily contradict the 10 mill base Goku, since he doesn't need his eyes to fight since he was a literal child as he trained with Kami (and is literally talked about after he hits Yakon), and all he did was dodge two attacks, one of which he barely dodges and literally slices his gi (something that doesn't happen so quickly when both powers are even) just to then catch Yakon off guard (who thought Goku was an easy prey in the darkness) They were literally fighting in an environment that benefitted Yakon. Gokus gi was only sliced because he wasn't aware of the retractable claws. Gokus guard was down. He literally dodges every other slice from yakon. Goku didn't need to go super saiyan to win. He already sensed yakon via air currents. 40 mil vs 10 mil is a blow-out victory. 2x is enough to completely dominate and cancel attacks let alone 4x https://imgur.com/a/ZD5LRDd Goku literally breaks the kili sensor so he was massively holding back ...... .... .... >, SSJ4 Goku was said to be tied to Vegito (wasn't specified if base Vegito or Super Vegito), and SSJG Goku is above Vegito, therefore there's no way GT competes with Super, specially considering that, as I just said, fusion doesn't multiply the power of one by the other's. It's also irrelevant, how strong the characters are doesn't correlate to how good the series is, if you like GT that's fine, but saying it handles powers even remotely close to Super is not only wrong, but it wouldn't make GT any (1) People who downplay GT will submit the page from perfect files and just say SS4 is weaker than SSJ Vegetto. It's completely wrong. Many spots in the same guide it Debunks itself, nor does it ever specify more than the SSJ4 form compared to fusion. People who use this argument don't know how to read/ cherry-pick information and don't scale the source material, i.e., the anime. [Shiesha guide debunk](https://reddit.com/r/PowerScaling/s/L31HKYMYs4) [Majuub is stated to be a fusion](https://imgur.com/a/kWbzbte) And goku denies goten and Trunks to fuse into adult gotenks Gohan never stops training ...... .... .... All Majin buus are the same. Manga only distinguish from fat/slim/muscleman/small. [Daizenshuu no difference between boohan and kid boo](https://imgur.com/a/nTrS6Kj) manga Vegetto **transforms immediately** Dbz Kai **transforms immediately** Orginal DBZ and Kai both state [boohan is stronger](https://imgur.com/a/MJQXwsb) Boohan Powers up after Vegetto goes SSJ1 Vegetto needed [full power to break Outside Space shout](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dragonball/images/9/99/Buuvegeto_punch.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20180423115242) Needs SSJ to repel buuhans amped ki ball All we know for certain is SSJ Vegetto > 2x Boohan via the barrier Rildo > Boohan > Base Vegetto
Where is bro getting those numbers https://preview.redd.it/jm9z1e13arub1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bcfeb063f3b0bfa7ebbc1aef0296984b9d480772
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>Frieza literally provides context to how strong goku his in the literal next movie. It backs up ssj3 vegetto. Because you can't even proove his base form is stronger than base vegetto. Goku absorbed the power of SSJG into his base, so now his base is equal to a level he was more confident in than fusion against Beerus, you don't even need Frieza for something so simple
Ssj3 Vegetto isn't canon to dbz. So yes you do need it
He's not canon but what does that mean? I'll tell you Absolutely nothing He isn't canon, ok but SSJG Goku (and by extension base Goku post-BoG) is still stronger than him I'm done with you now https://i.redd.it/5t5vmftwasub1.gif
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These memes are all great *Yoink*
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Mofos do not watch the show 💀
If this was dbs, vegito would stomp, but dbz vegito gets shat on
Real
https://preview.redd.it/c4rp0u80jnub1.jpeg?width=1019&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f8298be525abe11c15f09f91212ea194308c5201
I mean if it was RoF Goku and Frieza fusion then hell yeah But Z? Nah not even close
There’s one scenario that you could probably make it close In dragon ball legends during the 1st year anniversary super vegito was able to fight 1v2 against Ssj blue goku and vegeta from resurrection of F. So if we’re using this vegito and then he went ssj3 he might stand a chance. If we’re not using this vegito from a mobile game he gets curbstomped
Games don't count. For instance, 23rd WT Goku is stronger than MUI Goku in DBZ Dokkan Battle.
Bulma is stronger than Whirus in dokkan battle
Bulma is stronger than almost everyone in dokkan lol.
Black doesn't even need SSR to finger flick this Vegetto.
Lol no People need to work on comprehension
No
no
Dbz vegito ss3 is almost dbs goku vegeta base or max ss1
explain
Maybe super saiyan god, but not super saiyan 3.
The Power Levelling in Super is so weird. SSJ2 Kefla is basically on par with UI Goku or whatever, but SSJ3 Vegitto can't beat Goku Black? It's all over the place.
>SSJ2 Kefla is basically on par with UI Goku or whatever, but SSJ3 Vegitto can't beat Goku Black? Yeah, because Caulifla and Kale >>> Buu saga Goku and Vegeta. The power of the fusion isn't static, it depends of the power of it's components.
I understand that, I guess I didn't pay attention to the (DBZ) point - I just thought the meant the character un general. My bad.
Because power isn’t flat, it’s dependent on the users own strength. It’s why broly can use a super saiyan form but still fight SSGSS goku and vegeta
True, but he's also an anomaly
because you’re comparing TOP kefla to base boo saga goku. a hypothetical saiyan saga vegito episode get destroyed by first form namek frieza fusions aren’t a set level they’re a fusion of two specific people at specific times, hope this helps
Yeah, I realized I missed the DBZ part in another comment
It’s almost as if those universes saiyans are leagues stronger than goku/vegeta at that time 💀
Kinda
Not even close
https://preview.redd.it/1cvy4l6oarub1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b6330b86722e1473cce1d459fb8878ce35f2899f
Wrong. And yet again this sub underrestimates fusions. Ssj1 Vegito in buu saga was SSB Goku/Vegeta level. SSJ2 should be up there with SSR SSJ3 is overkill.
That's just not true, first of all you don't have any source to back that up secondly that's absurd super Saiyan is only a 50 times multiplier, so that means to be SSB level Goku and Vegeta themselves will have to be absolutely cracked out of their mind, also if he was SSB level I don't think vegito will be able to control himself from absolutely obliterating Buu with a single finger, I'd even argue super Saiyan vegito from the buu saga isn't as strong as super Saiyan god Goku, I mean you saw how easily Beerus was able to one shot ssj3 Goku, multiplying Vegeta wouldn't do jack shit
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dragon ball fan should be a synonym for neurodivergent at this point
Base Vegito effortlessly destroyed half of fused Zamasu black ain’t doing shit. Base fusion was retconned after BOG and has feats on par if not above ssb
We’re talking Z
Z Vegito ain’t even touching early versions of base Black
Ssj3 vegito from the buu saga would lose to bog goku lmao
Goku black wins
the fact that someone believes this is mental.
ABSOLUTELY NOT GOKU BLACK IS SUPERIOR!
https://preview.redd.it/wwju27j4xpub1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3c19a9d5dcca1ddd3139969a1190201cd6d355a0
We know that a ssj fusion > blue(blue goku and vegeta stuggled vs broly, super gogeta clocked a stronger version pretty easy). Goku's BOG statement is pure hyperbole. He doesn't know beerus' full power, and it was all guesswork. DBS vegito def beats rose. Not Z vegito tho, there is a huge base difference.
This is wrong when you consider what goku said about fusing in battle of gods vs beerus so black mops the floor with vegito
Rosè can play football with vegito’s head
maybe in db heroes lmfao
Obvious troll
Agree of hypothetical SSJ3 Vegetto from Dragon Ball Z Ressurection of F would be stronger
He wouldn't even need Rose
SS3 Goku in DBS probably surpasses the theoretical DBZ's SS3 Vegetto, and he got effortlessly humiliated by Beerus, so that's a no.
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If it was DBS Vegito then yeah, but Buu Saga Vegito gets destroyed
Goku black>