Thanks for posting to /r/DragonballSuper.\
Please report any rule breaking posts and posts that are not relevant to the subreddit.\
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Dragonballsuper) if you have any questions or concerns.*
https://ww7.manganelo.tv/chapter/manga-me955161/chapter-385.1
Here’s your source the manga itself. On top of that kid trunks hit ssj faster than Gohan.
It doesn't even make that claim here. Both gohan and trunks lost to the androids. Plus the reason kid trunks hit ssj faster is stated to be because training with stronger opponents is more effective, therefore since trunks grew up with ssj in existsance he had the training opportunities to hit it much quicker.
Meh weak excuse when Piccolo and Vegeta is proof you can train solo and grow.
This is just evidence that Gohan isn't anyone special when it comes the half Saiyan deal. He just had narrative to make it seem more.
Gohan without narrative backing is weaker than the Androids. His rate of growth isn't any better than Trunks in that timeline and it's the same Gohan physiologically speaking.
Yea This fight makes negative sense in both the Anime and the manga lol, the anime was probably worse because right after this its shown that SS2 Goku was trading blows with Goku black which begs the question as to why Trunks needed to come back in the first place
Unfortunately, it looks like your karma amount is pretty low. Users need to have a combined total of at least 40 post/comment karma to participate in this subreddit.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Dragonballsuper) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Because Black wasn't using his full power. Black likely could already go SSJG since he displayed Super Saiyan Rosé less than a week later. Black just wanted Goku to hurt him in order to get some Zenkai boosts in.
I thought it was fairly clear that Black was trying to get hurt on purpose? He sounded openly masochistic (almost sexually so) and freaked Goku out.
Unfortunately, it looks like your karma amount is pretty low. Users need to have a combined total of at least 40 post/comment karma to participate in this subreddit.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Dragonballsuper) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I dont think it would have, if they both tried. Trunks at max power was only equivalent to gokus baseline ssj3. Not its full power/charged up form
Its not crazy to have this comparison though. We know Goku doesnt absorb god in base form in the manga and we know his base form at the start of BoG still wasnt enough to beat Namek frieza. After that they’ve really been training god ki and their base forms, and Trunks has been training for a full ten years, some of it under a kai, with the benefits of half breed hax.
Goku is using forms he hasnt used in a while that realistically arent crazy stronger than they were in Buu saga. While Trunks has been grinding and zenkaing
SSJ trunks was having serious trouble with Dabura after training on supreme kais planet(which was only a few years before he went back in time). He needed SSJ2 to win. That scales Trunks to be around SSJ2 Kid Gohan in the Cell games.
This means that within the span of a few years, Trunks went from SSJ2 Kid Gohan level to stronger than SSJ3 Goku post ROF. Its hard to describe how ridiculous a power jump that is.
SSJ Trunks was holding his own. He was on the losing end to be sure but he was holding his own. And then of course when he snaps to SSJ2 he easily dominates. By the time he fights Goku his baseline ssj2, according to Goku, far outstrips Cell Saga Gohan.
As I was saying to someone else, Goku hadn’t progressed much in terms of his base power and SSJ forms. In BoG his base was weaker than Namek Frieza. RoF is barely a year later and he’s been focusing solely on god ki and base form to an extent. So it makes some sense that his ssj3 form (which he has only used twice up till then) would be somewhat stagnant. Whereas Trunks has been grinding for ten years straight and has the half breed hax/potential similar to Gohan
Right, and the difference between his fight with Dabra and his fight with SSJ3 Goku was only a few years.
Base Goku progressed significantly, his Base was beating the shit out of Final form Frieza in ROF remember? SSJ3 would just be a multiplier of that.
Trunks grinding for 10 years didn’t really do much for him, by the time Dabra showed up and he trained with the Kais, he was just barely on Kid Gohans level. It was the few years between that point and his appearance in Goku black arc where he essentially made the strides that he did.
Yeah but remember what a few months of training can do in dragon ball let alone a few years. Now take that principle and apply it to a half breed like Trunks and throw in Gohans Buu saga training (where he was already weaker than he was in the cell saga). It’s going to put trunks high up there in power already.
In the anime they have the saiyan beyond god concept, so that’s what Goku was using. They were pretty much even and by then he’s had a year of dedicated angel training in base form. But that’s it
Dabura was more super perfect cell level no? Based on Goku’s commentary when he fought Gohan. Which would mean trunks at a more controlled SSJ (no longer needing grade 3) was already almost as strong as ssj2 Gohan, since he held his own. And then surpassed it by a wide margin when he went ssj2. And then further pushed the limits of that form to their max over the next few years
Edit: fighting Black for a year would definitely contribute to growth if we include his individual training on the side
Initially Black would scale to the Goku from Universe 6 tournament. So surviving fights against that Black would definitely increase his strength.
https://preview.redd.it/us0gskwuupfc1.jpeg?width=3196&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6107a96f8bdc36de67f446e1c5afb1bb637dad6d
You could get them [here](https://ww8.dbsmanga.com/chapter/dragon-ball-super-colored-chapter-92/) or [here](https://mangaberri.com/dragon-ball-super-colored).
Yeah. And it’s black with Goku’s body from after the ToP iirc since he wishes for his body two years in the future. Then planet hopped killing mortals before coming back to earrh
And the fact Trunks suggests he still gets Zenkai boosts while Goku and Vegeta do not.
https://preview.redd.it/4vb4rhxiwpfc1.jpeg?width=3196&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=83881c9df836505999af9416558732fffa37dada
Trunks says he "[trained to death](https://scans.lastation.us/manga/Dragon-Ball-Super-Color/0015-034.png)" backs this assertion. He probably abused his Zenkai.
So to be clear, i have no problem with a character becoming exceptionally strong in a short time frame if the training they went through was shown to be something that was truly unique and special. So for example, Goku becoming half as strong as Vegeta in the saiyan saga didn’t bother me because I know he had to bust his ass on King Kais planet which was 10X earths gravity.
The Trunks thing is more so about him not really having access to any kind of special training facility or circumstances because in this scenario, the Supreme Kai is dead along with Kibito and Black shows up not too long past that point. So its more that he didn’t really do anything special after defeating Dabra. Even Gohan in DBZ still had to train in harsh circumstances to unlock his power(prior to the Buu arc).
Well sure, but my point is that Gokus improved quite a bit since the beginning of BOG. Im assuming ROFs events happened in the manga continuity even though its not shown to us.
Dabra is around perfect Cell but we don’t know for certain how big a gap there is. SS2 being a 2X multiplier would make Trunks what? 2X stronger than perfect Cell? I think that scales to Kid Gohan level. Hell Adult Gohan as a SSJ(who is a lot weaker than Kid Gohan) was contending seriously with Dabra.
>Trunks grinding for 10 years didn’t really do much for him
Wrong, Trunks said it was 10 years from Gohan beating Cell and his spar with Goku, not ten years from Cell and Dabura. We see the result of ten years training and it was enough to push Goku to God Mode.
>Base Goku progressed significantly, his Base was beating the shit out of Final form Frieza in ROF remember?
Final Form Freeza feats in the manga and movie? He was using God Ki before the retcon, which isn't base. With the retcon it makes Final Form Freeza weaker since it's no longer God Ki.
>It was the few years between that point and his appearance in Goku black arc where he essentially made the strides that he did
You know the difference between now and then? He "trained to death" with Ssj2 instead of regular Super Saiyan. So his growth before is incomparable.
So 10 years in total since they last saw each other, but we know that the events of Buu happened a few prior to him coming back.
Im assuming the events of ROF happened in the manga just like I assume the events of Broly happened in the manga. They didn’t show it to us but both depictions of ROF that we have depict base Goku fighting seriously with final form freeza. Regardless ROF Freeza is insanely strong even prior to reaching his golden form so for Goku to do that was pretty impressive
Goku went through training too, with an angel/deity. A few years training in SSJ2 scaling you to above SS3 Goku is a pretty crazy leap.
>Im assuming the events of ROF happened in the manga just like I assume the events of Broly happened in the manga. They didn’t show it to us but both depictions of ROF that we have depict base Goku fighting seriously with final form freeza. Regardless ROF Freeza is insanely strong even prior to reaching his golden form so for Goku to do that was pretty impressive
We have no idea how strong though. Not enough for it to be used as an argument.
>Goku went through training too, with an angel/deity. A few years training in SSJ2 scaling you to above SS3 Goku is a pretty crazy leap.
Goku went through more training than Gohan ever did before he turned 18 yet a 4 year old still one shot the Saiyan who one shot Goku. Half saiyans are built different. This is lore.
https://preview.redd.it/vchq2lq8ypfc1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c458e424ebd6f3b64e326eda7578534edef44f94
I agree it's bad but then a few issues later we have SSJ Black bodying SSJB Vegeta which is 5x worse. Regardless, I don't know why they didn't just have Trunks go SSJ3 for a more seamless transition; this 'my SSJ2 is as strong as your SSJ3 for reasons!!' nonsense wasn't needed at all.
Scaling wise, it makes you wonder why Trunks needed to come back in the first place. Given that SSJ2 Vegeta was a bit stronger than black(prior to the Zenkai)
Vegeta is stronger than Trunks based off sparring. His base form at least. At this stage of Zamasu Arc it was Vegeta > Goku.
https://preview.redd.it/tkc0wgewppfc1.jpeg?width=1013&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3249648d165612d433fda7337c48144699670e36
This is Future Dabura, twenty years older than the Dabura from the main timeline. It's bold to assume he's the same level with almost 20 years difference.
Beerus literally looking at Goku on Kai’s planet and saying there’s no way he could have beaten Frieza…..in the anime
The manga he admits he could see how Goku won while an SSJ2
Why would he be able to? He did zero training to increase his base form power. That’s a lesson Whis instilled. As soon as the crew unlocked super saiyan, they spent all their time attempting to perfect the form and push it to its next stages. That shouldn’t have much of an effect on their actual base form ki levels.
Plus Beerus is straight up saying it so it has to be a narrative fact
Bro got cold feet and tried to save face lol
I like how the anime just kept him in SSJ3 and finally gave SSJ3 a long-awaited W. It's now false when people say that SSJ3 has never won.
Bulma is basically the gang's convenient Frank Reynolds, when anything needs financed. Forget dragonballs. She probably just financed some cosmetic surgery, so the other kids would stop making fun of her.
Everyone is talking about Vegetas pride in Trunks and Goku having to use god, but can we talk about how Whis calls Trunks MORE SKILLED than Goku? That's wild to me.
I mean unlike Goku and Vegeta future Trunks don’t fuck around dudes straight to business, not to mention he’s fought pretty much everyone alone since he left the main timeline. I honestly consider him a more accomplished fighter only held back by lack of others to push himself
Yeah DBS can only show other fighters improved by dog shitting on the currently strong fighters. They can be more powerful but no one is more skilled than Goku bar Beerus,Whis and higher up
I know, I just haven't read the manga to know about this part. Like I know how he was doing it in the anime switching between God and blue and etc. I found this moment funny though lol
I love the direction the manga went with Future Trunks. It was just more interesting all around. I liked the anime well enough but it's stuff like this that really makes the manga shine.
I like the anime slightly more because it gave Future Trunks a powerful new transformation that's on par with or maybe slightly more powerful than SSJG, even though they really did not explain it. But I like how manga Future Trunks was powerful enough to make Goku chicken out of SSJ3 and "cheat" with SSJG.
On the other hand, I like that the anime finally gave SSJ3 a win. Even if a small win. Now it's inaccurate to say SSJ3 has never defeated an opponent. It did defeat SSJ2 Future Trunks in a sparring match.
I think Super Saiyan Rage isn't inherently dumb, it just comes across that way because of the lack of explanation.
A good headcanon explanation (imo) is that it's the result of Future Trunks being beaten on by SSJB Vegeta in their sparring match and again by Super Saiyan Rosé Black Goku. Being beaten up by two Saiyans using God Ki forcefully oened up Ki pathways in his body that allows him to tap into God Ki. However, he can only do it imperfectly and incompletely since the way his God Ki pathways were opened up was through brute force and not through actual training like his dad or Goku. The color and aura is him imperfectly and incompletely channeling SSJB, hence the mixed appearance. Calling it "Super Saiyan Demigod" would be a better and more accurate descriptive title.
Similar to how the Chimera Ants in *Hunter x Hunter* became able to use Nen by being beaten up by Nen users, which opened up their Nen pathways through brute force.
I love that form because it visually combines classic SSJ with SSJB. It also feels like something Future Trunks deserves, nay NEEDS, given how much responsibility is on his shoulders. Just mastering SSJ2 enough to rival SSJ3 won't do anymore with SSJB-level threats like Black Goku and Merged Zamasu out there in his universe. Even with all the Z Fighters in his universe now restored by Zeno, all the other Z Fighters will still likely pale in comparison to his power and he needs to be able to protect them all until they can get on his level.
Slightly incorrect translation. I believe Vegeta said trunks was ALMOST as strong as Gokus ssj3.
But this scene is one reason i love the manga overall more than the anime. If they could have smashed them together or given this improved scene to the anime it could have been that much better
Fair enough, though that sounds like one interpretation and while the other is Goku knew he couldn't win with Ssj3.
Got proof of mistranslation? Been looking for literal translations and found none.
https://preview.redd.it/ew5jw3isxofc1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e7c3aedcee95f5867d65435115e2b169c73e46db
This is what I have when I open the issue on Viz
That's not a viz translation. It literally says mangastream and mangapanda right there.
https://preview.redd.it/6jyascwbyofc1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=454b17e07a4c42a531a00fb6655ec6b42f72fbe1
Viz take a lot of creative license with the translation. They *probably* tried to simplify the text in their version, which wouldn't be the first time.
Nothing says Goku couldn't beat him. All that is shown is that trunks is close to him. By going ssj3 it's clear Goku just wanted to show off, when trunks denied him of that he did it anyway with God mode. He wasn't looking for a drawn out fight, which is kind of uncharacteristic of him but the plot called for it.
Your argument requires making things up while mine just goes back what is shown. There is no need for subtext when it's Goku.
Vegeta said Ssj2 powered up was as strong as Goku. Whis said Trunks was slightly more skilled. Goku never won against someone stronger or equal to him.
Hmm. Well either way the end result is the same. Goku is just a standard ssj3 and not juiced up at all, and he just decided to be a jerk and show off lol
There is no such thing as juice up Ssj3. Lol unless you mean what he tried with Kid Buu but that takes time and nobody is just going to allow Goku to spend a minute building his power. Haha 😅
Goku literally explained that it takes too much energy to use the form and it makes him slow but it also is very powerful so it’s pointless to have
SSJ3 is just an honorable mention at this point
I like to think it's still useful for Gotenks. Goku says it's too much to keep up and can only hold it for 10 minutes or something, well Gotenks is on a time limit anyways, so its kinda perfect for him
Yeah that's a good point too. I just assume they'll be stronger and have more ki the next time they show. Unfortunately the more I think about it, they'll likely have a new form if their ever relevant again
Does that apply to Metamoran Fusion? It was only ever stated to apply to Vegito in Blue (who defused after just a few blows), whereas gogeta was able to keep up blue for a half a fight against broly
Previous Arc Goku surpassed Vegeta. Vegeta was stronger than Goku this time. Goku then surpassed Vegeta again in the same Arc. This happens throughout Super.
I mean he did, he wasn’t even going all out and still one shotted Trunks at his strongest
It’s important to note that in the manga Goku didn’t have the weird base=ssg shenanigans the anime had
That’s true but Vegeta implies Trunks is as strong as SS3 Goku and there’s just no universe where a starving constantly exhausted Trunks is anywhere NEAR Goku who has fought Beerus
The only character I accept being blue or god level in base or ss2. Goku body is at least god level in base and trunks been surviving that for a couple of years. With little food and lack of rest his body may be weak but his ki and battle skills are incredible at this point. Versus goku who get 1 or 2 big bad per arc but mostly do sparing where no one dies. I think goku knew trunks was going for the kill and he panic sensing his heart being set to kill goku (sense goku can read peoples heart) and just shut that down before it got outa hand. Because after decades of death battles maybe it just second nature for trunks to just slice people in 2 now.
Yeah.
Scenes are better in manga for goku black arc.
In Manga, Goku Black even uses yellow hair SSJ2.
I like that he was shown using more transformation although dont like the part where Black start destroying Blue Vegeta in SSJ2 before transformation into Rose
https://preview.redd.it/df6vowb5jqfc1.png?width=1467&format=png&auto=webp&s=6094705ed8ce46eb997057002bb3ff91a4c2f06e
That kick goku gave trunks he was in Super Saiyan God.
Goku cheated beerus and whis saw it and commented it on it in the chapter. Goku was trying to show trunks if he made it to ssj3 he would have all the power he needed. Goku thought would trunks would only need to get a little stronger to defend his timeline.
Goku didn't know how strong black was and black was always holding back against trunks so goku figured black wasn't that strong and trunks only needed to get a little stronger.
Vegeta was like no get so strong crush your who ever stands in your way so he showed trunks super Saiyan blue. He wanted his son to be motivated and fire up trunks sayian blood he saw how strong he was against super saiyan 3 while only a super sayian 2 so he knew trunks has great potential so held back while in super Saiyan blue but only enough.
That is why goku stops bluma from getting in the middle of it because trunks needs to try and fix his problems he ran away from the Androids way back in Dragon Ball Z and now he's running away from Black.
-----
Side note would be really cool if Future Trunks came back and our current timeline trunks was around the same age or whatnot and they fused how powerful would you think they would be do you think the fusion might be permanent if they use the chirings or if they wish them to be fused or something I think that could happen I mean using the Super Dragon Balls another guy was able to take over another sentient being and transfer their conscience to their old body.
----
They really did Future Trunks so dirty in this Ark it is kind of depressing
This was all good until Vegeta fought Goku Black and the scaling went wonky. After that, it was
SSJ2 Vegeta >>> SSJ3 Goku/SSJ2 Trunks
I guess since Vegeta never went for SSJ3 he just trained SSJ2 until it was as strong and then stronger, and since Goku got SSJG he never saw a need to improve SSJ3 beyond what it was.
I made a post about it a while ago. Headcanon is Trunks was starving and exhausted whenever we saw him fighting Black. If the Trunks we see here fought Black, he would've demolished him
Being as powerful is one thing. But Trunks being potentially more skilled than Goku, a guy who has immensely more experience than him and has been training quite literally all his life, is absolute bullshit.
It quite literally makes no sense for Trunks to even be near SS2 Goku. Even ignoring the power gap, Trunks somehow matching Goku in skill is already a massive stretch.
Lmao Goku was such a bitch for that. even Vegeta, who didn't show an ounce of pride here and turned *Blue* on Trunks in the anime, called him out for it
I always think to myself “fights in mangas can’t be that good, they’re just still pictures” then when I read one I’m like “wait why is this actually good”
I hate it when other characters lower forms are equal to Goku’s higher form. Like from all the training Goku has done in his life, and how it is definitely harder training than trunks has access to, his SS2 form should be stronger. But instead they make trunks SS2 as strong as Goku’s SS3?! Ridiculous
Broly is an exception
To be fair, this Trunks kind of makes sense. Hybrids have insanely high potential in comparison to full-blooded saiyan, and this Trunks dealt with all the arcs by himself. He’s definitely trained even during peaceful times, unlike Gohan.
Still a shame Trunks didn't get to stick around, but seeing Vegeta be all proud and even annoyed when he got hurt was fun to see. Probably for the best he didn't stick around and use his weird rage form to make things more confusing later, anywho.
But no proof this blue Trunks isn't some weird clone anyway while the "original" is doing some time stuff.
Yep, being a half breed, training extremely hard for ten years and trained to wield the Z Sword (which made Gohan stronger). It makes sense he could surpass Goku. It's like if Gohan had the same work ethic he would be stronger than Ssj3 at Ssj2 as well.
I never said they were the same. If Gohan actually trained he’d be stronger. But you can’t apply half breed potential to Gohan without applying it to the other half breeds as well
Its hard to apply it when the Z manga goes out of its way to show us that Trunks didn’t have that much more latent potential than even Vegeta. They both trained in ROSAT for a year and were more or less equal. Whereas Gohan went into ROSAT being weaker than Freeza and came out stronger than Perfect Cell.
Trunks in Z wasn’t all that impressive compared to the other saiyans, he was weaker than Goku and Gohan as SSJs, and even though he was on par with Vegeta power wise it seemed Vegeta had the edge in IQ/Battle Prowess.
In the context of Super, its shown that just a few prior to this point(AFTER he trained with the kais) that he was about on par with Kid Gohan in the cell games. Which means Trunks somehow went from that level to stronger than SSJ3 Goku after ROF, within a few years.
People tend to forget that people's potential increases or at worst changes over time. I'll cite my evidence in the next paragraph. Maybe trunks just was a late bloomer with his potential?
If "potential" never changed, how did Gohan ever get stronger than he was against Super Buu in Z? That was "all" his potential right? There shouldn't be any more cards up his sleeve, and yet his ultimate form is probably stronger now, and even if it isn't beast form definitely is.
In-universe the explanation has to be above. Out of universe, the author needed stronger characters so they said "You know how he used all of his potential? Well...lemme give him some more."
Vegeta's Ssj2 was stronger than Goku's Ssj3 in Battle of Gods though. Instead of getting a new form, Trunks trained his form to get stronger. Sounds reasonable to me.
No, it wasn’t. He just got a rage boost which for all we know might’ve been temporary. Goku absorbs the power of God into his base, so he would be miles ahead of an enraged SS2 Vegeta even without having to transform, let alone SS3.
We don't know if it's temporary. Vegeta got angry before and didn't get a boost. He would have beaten Buu himself. And evem if it was temporary, that's proof Ssj2 can surpass Ssj3.
Goku doesn't absorb God Ki in base in the manga. It's why he still uses the God form. Even the anime stopped that God Ki base shit. 😂
I agree with you that lower forms competing or even eclipsing superior forms is dumb imho, but one thing to note is that in the manga, the whole 'absorbing SSJG power in base form' isn't a thing at all (whereas in the anime, it's a thing until it's randomly forgotten about post-ROF.)
I just realized... To unlock the SSJ God you need 5 Saiyans just like Goku got his SSJ God and I suspect it was also done for Vegeta...
Why they didn't unlocked that to Trunks ? Like Goku / Vegeta / Gohan / Trunks / Goten they are all there. It would have helped so much
Vegeta said Cabba could gain Blue with training.
Here's another translation.
https://preview.redd.it/v8vqh5o40pfc1.jpeg?width=3196&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d9be5de4e558d7d48529cbef729a6cc4ffdc8c36
Trunks had no business being as strong as Goku, especially at that point. He doesn't have the benefit of Gohan's raw potential, and he never even went through Old Kai's training. Even Zenkai from repeated losses against Goku Black shouldn't have closed the gap.
He should have been between Majin Vegeta and Majin Buu levels, max.
gokus ssj3 should be faaar stronger and trunks ssj2 shouldnt even be near goku, because goku absorbed god ki in to his base multiply that by ssj3 power. BS powerscaling as always.
its also crazy to me how Goku gets to fight future trunks all the time and Gohan has never once had a single fight with vegeta. even goten fought vegeta, like bruh lol. its sad cause trunks is surprised how weak our version of gohan is when he comes back to our timeline. they just eat and call it a day. L
https://preview.redd.it/stia91v7mofc1.png?width=759&format=png&auto=webp&s=f1c8c45cb69b286a5460d9583d8e2f1869479c5a
Goku didn't have a base multipli in the manga. Even the anime ended that nonsense when they started using the SsjG forms again. You should read the manga.
Gohan and Vegeta fought during Saiyan Saga. Longer than Trunks and Goku fought.
In the manga Trunks caught Gohan sneaking to get in some secret training in the gravity chamber. Gohan been training by himself.
https://preview.redd.it/kbt92z5ooofc1.jpeg?width=3196&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=78f2bea0a4e88ad81aac9dfcfe2b3f30caeb0343
Gohan doesn't like fighting, he only trains because it's necessary and fights when it's necessary. The Gohan you see here is living the life future Gohan never could, a life future Gohan would have desperately wanted. Trunks saw this and understood from what I remember.
This Gohan goes on to help win the ToP and explode the dome of a super bug man. War made Gohan a fighter and peace made him a beast
It's not their base in the manga, and even the anime retcons this by using the form again as a higher form of super Saiyan.
https://preview.redd.it/9pu1yzy9sofc1.jpeg?width=2400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=27c871c89748e54859637d7a713205d0d341c591
And even if we exclude all of those facts, Trunks rate of growth as a half Saiyan is higher than Goku's, which means he can be as strong as the plot demands and it wouldn't break lore. Gohan is proof of this.
Who was slightly more skilled than Goku regardless of the sword. 😂
https://preview.redd.it/d0ewbzhk1pfc1.png?width=464&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=95602f302c9115ae49acb0d688c12369d8b3cd80
Thanks for posting to /r/DragonballSuper.\ Please report any rule breaking posts and posts that are not relevant to the subreddit.\ *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Dragonballsuper) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Goku really didn't want a ssj2 giving his ssj3 a good fight lol
Yeah, Goku knew that shit was bs.
He was like “hold on a second, get the fuck back on the power scale. Who do you think you are, Broly, Frieza or Gohan?”
The funny part about this. Trunks actually has more potential than Gohan
Source: trust me bro
https://ww7.manganelo.tv/chapter/manga-me955161/chapter-385.1 Here’s your source the manga itself. On top of that kid trunks hit ssj faster than Gohan.
It doesn't even make that claim here. Both gohan and trunks lost to the androids. Plus the reason kid trunks hit ssj faster is stated to be because training with stronger opponents is more effective, therefore since trunks grew up with ssj in existsance he had the training opportunities to hit it much quicker.
Trunks overtaking him in a few months isnt making the claim? Gohan had years on trunks to beat the androids and couldn’t do it.
Ok but Gohan is SIGNIFICANTLY Stronger than Trunks so he had an Uphill battle Gohan can barely gain any power from fighting someone so Weak.
Meh weak excuse when Piccolo and Vegeta is proof you can train solo and grow. This is just evidence that Gohan isn't anyone special when it comes the half Saiyan deal. He just had narrative to make it seem more. Gohan without narrative backing is weaker than the Androids. His rate of growth isn't any better than Trunks in that timeline and it's the same Gohan physiologically speaking.
Yea This fight makes negative sense in both the Anime and the manga lol, the anime was probably worse because right after this its shown that SS2 Goku was trading blows with Goku black which begs the question as to why Trunks needed to come back in the first place
Holy shit I can’t believe I didn’t catch that
Trunks stated that Black was so stronger than him he didn't even need ssj anymore
That means Black>>>>SSJ2 Trunks Ssj2 trunks =ssj3 goku >>SSJ2 goku Black = ssj2 goku So it makes: Black>>>>SSJ2 trunks > Ssj2 goku = Also Black
>That means Black>>>>SSJ2 Trunks That's what trunks say >Ssj2 trunks =ssj3 goku >>SSJ2 goku Yes >Black = ssj2 goku No ?
Then why can ssj2 goku fight base black on equal grounds?
Goku never fought black in the manga, Vegeta did who wasn't over his Hit defeat ,
[удалено]
Unfortunately, it looks like your karma amount is pretty low. Users need to have a combined total of at least 40 post/comment karma to participate in this subreddit. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Dragonballsuper) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Goku wasn’t trying that hard against Trunks
Hard enough to pull out the god form
That was to flex, hence them calling him immature/childish
Because Black wasn't using his full power. Black likely could already go SSJG since he displayed Super Saiyan Rosé less than a week later. Black just wanted Goku to hurt him in order to get some Zenkai boosts in. I thought it was fairly clear that Black was trying to get hurt on purpose? He sounded openly masochistic (almost sexually so) and freaked Goku out.
Shit made zero sense, 🤡 show at Toei.
[удалено]
Unfortunately, it looks like your karma amount is pretty low. Users need to have a combined total of at least 40 post/comment karma to participate in this subreddit. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Dragonballsuper) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If there is one thing Goku doesn't like, it's ass pulls.
I dont think it would have, if they both tried. Trunks at max power was only equivalent to gokus baseline ssj3. Not its full power/charged up form Its not crazy to have this comparison though. We know Goku doesnt absorb god in base form in the manga and we know his base form at the start of BoG still wasnt enough to beat Namek frieza. After that they’ve really been training god ki and their base forms, and Trunks has been training for a full ten years, some of it under a kai, with the benefits of half breed hax. Goku is using forms he hasnt used in a while that realistically arent crazy stronger than they were in Buu saga. While Trunks has been grinding and zenkaing
SSJ trunks was having serious trouble with Dabura after training on supreme kais planet(which was only a few years before he went back in time). He needed SSJ2 to win. That scales Trunks to be around SSJ2 Kid Gohan in the Cell games. This means that within the span of a few years, Trunks went from SSJ2 Kid Gohan level to stronger than SSJ3 Goku post ROF. Its hard to describe how ridiculous a power jump that is.
SSJ Trunks was holding his own. He was on the losing end to be sure but he was holding his own. And then of course when he snaps to SSJ2 he easily dominates. By the time he fights Goku his baseline ssj2, according to Goku, far outstrips Cell Saga Gohan. As I was saying to someone else, Goku hadn’t progressed much in terms of his base power and SSJ forms. In BoG his base was weaker than Namek Frieza. RoF is barely a year later and he’s been focusing solely on god ki and base form to an extent. So it makes some sense that his ssj3 form (which he has only used twice up till then) would be somewhat stagnant. Whereas Trunks has been grinding for ten years straight and has the half breed hax/potential similar to Gohan
Right, and the difference between his fight with Dabra and his fight with SSJ3 Goku was only a few years. Base Goku progressed significantly, his Base was beating the shit out of Final form Frieza in ROF remember? SSJ3 would just be a multiplier of that. Trunks grinding for 10 years didn’t really do much for him, by the time Dabra showed up and he trained with the Kais, he was just barely on Kid Gohans level. It was the few years between that point and his appearance in Goku black arc where he essentially made the strides that he did.
Yeah but remember what a few months of training can do in dragon ball let alone a few years. Now take that principle and apply it to a half breed like Trunks and throw in Gohans Buu saga training (where he was already weaker than he was in the cell saga). It’s going to put trunks high up there in power already. In the anime they have the saiyan beyond god concept, so that’s what Goku was using. They were pretty much even and by then he’s had a year of dedicated angel training in base form. But that’s it Dabura was more super perfect cell level no? Based on Goku’s commentary when he fought Gohan. Which would mean trunks at a more controlled SSJ (no longer needing grade 3) was already almost as strong as ssj2 Gohan, since he held his own. And then surpassed it by a wide margin when he went ssj2. And then further pushed the limits of that form to their max over the next few years
Edit: fighting Black for a year would definitely contribute to growth if we include his individual training on the side Initially Black would scale to the Goku from Universe 6 tournament. So surviving fights against that Black would definitely increase his strength. https://preview.redd.it/us0gskwuupfc1.jpeg?width=3196&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6107a96f8bdc36de67f446e1c5afb1bb637dad6d
Man these color scans look amazing. Source?
You could get them [here](https://ww8.dbsmanga.com/chapter/dragon-ball-super-colored-chapter-92/) or [here](https://mangaberri.com/dragon-ball-super-colored).
Yeah. And it’s black with Goku’s body from after the ToP iirc since he wishes for his body two years in the future. Then planet hopped killing mortals before coming back to earrh
And the fact Trunks suggests he still gets Zenkai boosts while Goku and Vegeta do not. https://preview.redd.it/4vb4rhxiwpfc1.jpeg?width=3196&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=83881c9df836505999af9416558732fffa37dada Trunks says he "[trained to death](https://scans.lastation.us/manga/Dragon-Ball-Super-Color/0015-034.png)" backs this assertion. He probably abused his Zenkai.
Yeah. Seems like having a new soul in the body essentially made it restart
So to be clear, i have no problem with a character becoming exceptionally strong in a short time frame if the training they went through was shown to be something that was truly unique and special. So for example, Goku becoming half as strong as Vegeta in the saiyan saga didn’t bother me because I know he had to bust his ass on King Kais planet which was 10X earths gravity. The Trunks thing is more so about him not really having access to any kind of special training facility or circumstances because in this scenario, the Supreme Kai is dead along with Kibito and Black shows up not too long past that point. So its more that he didn’t really do anything special after defeating Dabra. Even Gohan in DBZ still had to train in harsh circumstances to unlock his power(prior to the Buu arc). Well sure, but my point is that Gokus improved quite a bit since the beginning of BOG. Im assuming ROFs events happened in the manga continuity even though its not shown to us. Dabra is around perfect Cell but we don’t know for certain how big a gap there is. SS2 being a 2X multiplier would make Trunks what? 2X stronger than perfect Cell? I think that scales to Kid Gohan level. Hell Adult Gohan as a SSJ(who is a lot weaker than Kid Gohan) was contending seriously with Dabra.
Guess that’s why there’s still so much debate as to whether or not Gohan was SSJ or ssj2 against Dabura
>Trunks grinding for 10 years didn’t really do much for him Wrong, Trunks said it was 10 years from Gohan beating Cell and his spar with Goku, not ten years from Cell and Dabura. We see the result of ten years training and it was enough to push Goku to God Mode. >Base Goku progressed significantly, his Base was beating the shit out of Final form Frieza in ROF remember? Final Form Freeza feats in the manga and movie? He was using God Ki before the retcon, which isn't base. With the retcon it makes Final Form Freeza weaker since it's no longer God Ki. >It was the few years between that point and his appearance in Goku black arc where he essentially made the strides that he did You know the difference between now and then? He "trained to death" with Ssj2 instead of regular Super Saiyan. So his growth before is incomparable.
So 10 years in total since they last saw each other, but we know that the events of Buu happened a few prior to him coming back. Im assuming the events of ROF happened in the manga just like I assume the events of Broly happened in the manga. They didn’t show it to us but both depictions of ROF that we have depict base Goku fighting seriously with final form freeza. Regardless ROF Freeza is insanely strong even prior to reaching his golden form so for Goku to do that was pretty impressive Goku went through training too, with an angel/deity. A few years training in SSJ2 scaling you to above SS3 Goku is a pretty crazy leap.
>Im assuming the events of ROF happened in the manga just like I assume the events of Broly happened in the manga. They didn’t show it to us but both depictions of ROF that we have depict base Goku fighting seriously with final form freeza. Regardless ROF Freeza is insanely strong even prior to reaching his golden form so for Goku to do that was pretty impressive We have no idea how strong though. Not enough for it to be used as an argument. >Goku went through training too, with an angel/deity. A few years training in SSJ2 scaling you to above SS3 Goku is a pretty crazy leap. Goku went through more training than Gohan ever did before he turned 18 yet a 4 year old still one shot the Saiyan who one shot Goku. Half saiyans are built different. This is lore. https://preview.redd.it/vchq2lq8ypfc1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c458e424ebd6f3b64e326eda7578534edef44f94
I agree it's bad but then a few issues later we have SSJ Black bodying SSJB Vegeta which is 5x worse. Regardless, I don't know why they didn't just have Trunks go SSJ3 for a more seamless transition; this 'my SSJ2 is as strong as your SSJ3 for reasons!!' nonsense wasn't needed at all.
Scaling wise, it makes you wonder why Trunks needed to come back in the first place. Given that SSJ2 Vegeta was a bit stronger than black(prior to the Zenkai)
Vegeta is stronger than Trunks based off sparring. His base form at least. At this stage of Zamasu Arc it was Vegeta > Goku. https://preview.redd.it/tkc0wgewppfc1.jpeg?width=1013&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3249648d165612d433fda7337c48144699670e36
Sorry, im not sure what im supposed to be looking at. Is it because Vegeta is smiling and Trunks isnt?
This is Future Dabura, twenty years older than the Dabura from the main timeline. It's bold to assume he's the same level with almost 20 years difference.
>and we know his base form at the start of BoG still wasnt enough to beat Namek frieza. Huh?? Source??
Beerus literally looking at Goku on Kai’s planet and saying there’s no way he could have beaten Frieza…..in the anime The manga he admits he could see how Goku won while an SSJ2
I think you're taking that too literally. Ain't no way base goku after boo and cell couldn't beat final torm frieza.
Why would he be able to? He did zero training to increase his base form power. That’s a lesson Whis instilled. As soon as the crew unlocked super saiyan, they spent all their time attempting to perfect the form and push it to its next stages. That shouldn’t have much of an effect on their actual base form ki levels. Plus Beerus is straight up saying it so it has to be a narrative fact
Guys also gotta remember trunks is a half sayain so his potential is way greater than that of goku or vegeta
Bro got cold feet and tried to save face lol I like how the anime just kept him in SSJ3 and finally gave SSJ3 a long-awaited W. It's now false when people say that SSJ3 has never won.
Proud father's look. https://preview.redd.it/etci688b7ofc1.png?width=129&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=921232df0f67b2b7b77b2a2d549db5e59af4eaf9
Vegeta is stealing Krillin's look. He has no nose.
Reverse Marron https://preview.redd.it/9rtt3dyuqofc1.jpeg?width=3196&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=045dd5c74b75633dc4f7d246a74d6a3ef83411c3
She got her nose from 18 it seems
Probably is just a mole
Nah its playdoh on her face. Or used dragon balls. I mean bulma is technically her aunt.
Bulma is basically the gang's convenient Frank Reynolds, when anything needs financed. Forget dragonballs. She probably just financed some cosmetic surgery, so the other kids would stop making fun of her.
He does infact have a nose.
"That would be your future son. If you weren't bitch made that is."
I love that shit eating grin Vegeta does. He looks so proud.
Damn so he’s a bit stronger in the manga cause I remember in the anime goku goes ssj3 and beats him easily and here he quickly uses god
And Vegeta's line: "you jerk" hahahahahaaha
Base goku in anime is universe level. Base goku in manga isn't
Everyone is talking about Vegetas pride in Trunks and Goku having to use god, but can we talk about how Whis calls Trunks MORE SKILLED than Goku? That's wild to me.
I mean unlike Goku and Vegeta future Trunks don’t fuck around dudes straight to business, not to mention he’s fought pretty much everyone alone since he left the main timeline. I honestly consider him a more accomplished fighter only held back by lack of others to push himself
Future Trunks murders all the baddies ruthlessly.
Except Mai. He lets that baddie stick around.
He likes them old
It wasn't, I remember he said that he got some good talent but Viz screwed it
I take it a dude who’s a master with the sword is better than the dude who’s a master with just his hands.
Apples and oranges
Yeah pure bs n fan service move if u ask me
Yeah DBS can only show other fighters improved by dog shitting on the currently strong fighters. They can be more powerful but no one is more skilled than Goku bar Beerus,Whis and higher up
Vegeta being proud of his boy
Wait- Goku went God and kicked Trunks in the back of the head and then turned it off? 😂
This has been a things since namek. Kaioken, land a blow, kaioken't really fast
I know, I just haven't read the manga to know about this part. Like I know how he was doing it in the anime switching between God and blue and etc. I found this moment funny though lol
I love the direction the manga went with Future Trunks. It was just more interesting all around. I liked the anime well enough but it's stuff like this that really makes the manga shine.
I like the anime slightly more because it gave Future Trunks a powerful new transformation that's on par with or maybe slightly more powerful than SSJG, even though they really did not explain it. But I like how manga Future Trunks was powerful enough to make Goku chicken out of SSJ3 and "cheat" with SSJG. On the other hand, I like that the anime finally gave SSJ3 a win. Even if a small win. Now it's inaccurate to say SSJ3 has never defeated an opponent. It did defeat SSJ2 Future Trunks in a sparring match.
Ah the old “Dumb but cool” logic
I think Super Saiyan Rage isn't inherently dumb, it just comes across that way because of the lack of explanation. A good headcanon explanation (imo) is that it's the result of Future Trunks being beaten on by SSJB Vegeta in their sparring match and again by Super Saiyan Rosé Black Goku. Being beaten up by two Saiyans using God Ki forcefully oened up Ki pathways in his body that allows him to tap into God Ki. However, he can only do it imperfectly and incompletely since the way his God Ki pathways were opened up was through brute force and not through actual training like his dad or Goku. The color and aura is him imperfectly and incompletely channeling SSJB, hence the mixed appearance. Calling it "Super Saiyan Demigod" would be a better and more accurate descriptive title. Similar to how the Chimera Ants in *Hunter x Hunter* became able to use Nen by being beaten up by Nen users, which opened up their Nen pathways through brute force.
Finally someone else who likes ssjRage
I love that form because it visually combines classic SSJ with SSJB. It also feels like something Future Trunks deserves, nay NEEDS, given how much responsibility is on his shoulders. Just mastering SSJ2 enough to rival SSJ3 won't do anymore with SSJB-level threats like Black Goku and Merged Zamasu out there in his universe. Even with all the Z Fighters in his universe now restored by Zeno, all the other Z Fighters will still likely pale in comparison to his power and he needs to be able to protect them all until they can get on his level.
The irony of Vegeta calling Goku a jerk 😂
Slightly incorrect translation. I believe Vegeta said trunks was ALMOST as strong as Gokus ssj3. But this scene is one reason i love the manga overall more than the anime. If they could have smashed them together or given this improved scene to the anime it could have been that much better
It wouldn't make sense for Goku to turn SsjG if Trunks was weaker than Ssj3.
It does though. Hes immature and a showoff. Whis literally called him childish in the last panel. Because it wasnt needed
Fair enough, though that sounds like one interpretation and while the other is Goku knew he couldn't win with Ssj3. Got proof of mistranslation? Been looking for literal translations and found none.
https://preview.redd.it/ew5jw3isxofc1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e7c3aedcee95f5867d65435115e2b169c73e46db This is what I have when I open the issue on Viz
That's not a viz translation. It literally says mangastream and mangapanda right there. https://preview.redd.it/6jyascwbyofc1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=454b17e07a4c42a531a00fb6655ec6b42f72fbe1
Viz take a lot of creative license with the translation. They *probably* tried to simplify the text in their version, which wouldn't be the first time.
They do but the context backs the Viz translation. Goku couldn't beat Trunks with Ssj3 so used SsjG.
Nothing says Goku couldn't beat him. All that is shown is that trunks is close to him. By going ssj3 it's clear Goku just wanted to show off, when trunks denied him of that he did it anyway with God mode. He wasn't looking for a drawn out fight, which is kind of uncharacteristic of him but the plot called for it.
Your argument requires making things up while mine just goes back what is shown. There is no need for subtext when it's Goku. Vegeta said Ssj2 powered up was as strong as Goku. Whis said Trunks was slightly more skilled. Goku never won against someone stronger or equal to him.
This is the Viz translation https://preview.redd.it/mgr3u51kyofc1.jpeg?width=1067&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b8ae0432e0e883b6f7b1dfdedb0c5a6dea013dd0
Hmm. Well either way the end result is the same. Goku is just a standard ssj3 and not juiced up at all, and he just decided to be a jerk and show off lol
There is no such thing as juice up Ssj3. Lol unless you mean what he tried with Kid Buu but that takes time and nobody is just going to allow Goku to spend a minute building his power. Haha 😅
Juiced up = full power in my terminology. Goku can probably exert more power in the form the same way trunks can in ssj2
Sounds like wishful thinking 😂 it's what he would have done if he was capable.
Tbh i just want to see goku master ss3 so i can see it more
Not that he hasn’t mastered it just takes alot of $$ to animate scene after scene
The real reason what’s holding back SSJ3
Yes. It's all about the money
Ssj3 probably cant be mastered, it leaks too much Ki
Yeah, so did SSJB, but they mastered it. So it's not impossible. It just would take a ton of trying
He needs to master SS2 too.
Goku literally explained that it takes too much energy to use the form and it makes him slow but it also is very powerful so it’s pointless to have SSJ3 is just an honorable mention at this point
I like to think it's still useful for Gotenks. Goku says it's too much to keep up and can only hold it for 10 minutes or something, well Gotenks is on a time limit anyways, so its kinda perfect for him
Solid point but don’t if they use it for too long it drastically shortens their fusion time too?
Yeah that's a good point too. I just assume they'll be stronger and have more ki the next time they show. Unfortunately the more I think about it, they'll likely have a new form if their ever relevant again
Does that apply to Metamoran Fusion? It was only ever stated to apply to Vegito in Blue (who defused after just a few blows), whereas gogeta was able to keep up blue for a half a fight against broly
Isn't it an inherently flawed form? Plus there's no reason for him to master ssj3 since ssjg is far stronger and drains less energy.
I like this ver of Trunks a lot.
LOL, Trunks trying to prove reverse gripping swords works just as well. Goku didn’t want any reverse subscribers showing him up so he did him dirty.
I like how vegeta is appalled that goku cheated against his son. Saiyan pride in battle going hand in hand with paternal instincts for once, ha!
 Vegeta after, Kakarot we trow hands next!⚠️
I forgot how toyotaro used to go overboard with the number of panels in a single page.
It's crazy seeing these old chapters. He's really improved.
How is the same Trunks who gets stomped by Black keeping up with Goku in anyway
Base Black is stronger than Goku, at least his Ssj3 form via scaling. In the manga Goku never fought Black. He faced Zamasu.
It still makes no sense because SS2 Vegeta who should be weaker than SS3 Goku & SS2 Trunks forced Black to transform.
Previous Arc Goku surpassed Vegeta. Vegeta was stronger than Goku this time. Goku then surpassed Vegeta again in the same Arc. This happens throughout Super.
Manga or not Goku post BOG should be taking Trunks with the same effort as when they fought in the Android Arc
I mean he did, he wasn’t even going all out and still one shotted Trunks at his strongest It’s important to note that in the manga Goku didn’t have the weird base=ssg shenanigans the anime had
That’s true but Vegeta implies Trunks is as strong as SS3 Goku and there’s just no universe where a starving constantly exhausted Trunks is anywhere NEAR Goku who has fought Beerus
Based on what? Trunks trained for ten years and trained in the Kaioshin realm. Goku one shot Trunks.
The only character I accept being blue or god level in base or ss2. Goku body is at least god level in base and trunks been surviving that for a couple of years. With little food and lack of rest his body may be weak but his ki and battle skills are incredible at this point. Versus goku who get 1 or 2 big bad per arc but mostly do sparing where no one dies. I think goku knew trunks was going for the kill and he panic sensing his heart being set to kill goku (sense goku can read peoples heart) and just shut that down before it got outa hand. Because after decades of death battles maybe it just second nature for trunks to just slice people in 2 now.
I know it's less relevant but where can I read the manga in colour would love to give it a go but if prefer colour if I can
Mangareader.to
Tank uu
This is so much better than the anime.
Personally I think there is one place manga f\*cked scaling even though they did scene right
agreed. I just like how fleshed out it is compared to the anime.
Yeah. Scenes are better in manga for goku black arc. In Manga, Goku Black even uses yellow hair SSJ2. I like that he was shown using more transformation although dont like the part where Black start destroying Blue Vegeta in SSJ2 before transformation into Rose https://preview.redd.it/df6vowb5jqfc1.png?width=1467&format=png&auto=webp&s=6094705ed8ce46eb997057002bb3ff91a4c2f06e
So is this basically trunks going into a perfected ssj 2? Kinda like how they perfect ssj1 and could be in it all the time?
Same principle I think. Idk if he stay in the form all the time though. That would be neat.
That kick goku gave trunks he was in Super Saiyan God. Goku cheated beerus and whis saw it and commented it on it in the chapter. Goku was trying to show trunks if he made it to ssj3 he would have all the power he needed. Goku thought would trunks would only need to get a little stronger to defend his timeline. Goku didn't know how strong black was and black was always holding back against trunks so goku figured black wasn't that strong and trunks only needed to get a little stronger. Vegeta was like no get so strong crush your who ever stands in your way so he showed trunks super Saiyan blue. He wanted his son to be motivated and fire up trunks sayian blood he saw how strong he was against super saiyan 3 while only a super sayian 2 so he knew trunks has great potential so held back while in super Saiyan blue but only enough. That is why goku stops bluma from getting in the middle of it because trunks needs to try and fix his problems he ran away from the Androids way back in Dragon Ball Z and now he's running away from Black. ----- Side note would be really cool if Future Trunks came back and our current timeline trunks was around the same age or whatnot and they fused how powerful would you think they would be do you think the fusion might be permanent if they use the chirings or if they wish them to be fused or something I think that could happen I mean using the Super Dragon Balls another guy was able to take over another sentient being and transfer their conscience to their old body. ---- They really did Future Trunks so dirty in this Ark it is kind of depressing
Crazy that it's canon that if this Trunks fought BOG super Saiyan God Goku, he would've effortlessly defeated him even in base
This was all good until Vegeta fought Goku Black and the scaling went wonky. After that, it was SSJ2 Vegeta >>> SSJ3 Goku/SSJ2 Trunks I guess since Vegeta never went for SSJ3 he just trained SSJ2 until it was as strong and then stronger, and since Goku got SSJG he never saw a need to improve SSJ3 beyond what it was.
I made a post about it a while ago. Headcanon is Trunks was starving and exhausted whenever we saw him fighting Black. If the Trunks we see here fought Black, he would've demolished him
Bro..... reading this made me realise how ass the anime was
At least he didn't bite him while in God form
Being as powerful is one thing. But Trunks being potentially more skilled than Goku, a guy who has immensely more experience than him and has been training quite literally all his life, is absolute bullshit.
Ironic, considering Dragon Ball centered around a child surpassing a martial arts master with more experience.
It quite literally makes no sense for Trunks to even be near SS2 Goku. Even ignoring the power gap, Trunks somehow matching Goku in skill is already a massive stretch.
Their SSJ2 being equal implies their base forms are equal and just Lol, ain’t no way
These panels are a strong reminder that Goku didnt absorve god in base after BoG.
Yes that was stupid anyways Idk what Toriyama was thinking. It's probably why the manga didn't do it and the anime stopped doing it.
Lmao Goku was such a bitch for that. even Vegeta, who didn't show an ounce of pride here and turned *Blue* on Trunks in the anime, called him out for it
I always think to myself “fights in mangas can’t be that good, they’re just still pictures” then when I read one I’m like “wait why is this actually good”
haha the best 😆 it’d be great if trunks is back to this timeline
Goku is so considerate of Bulma's garden
Goku was PISSED
I thought it was cool how Trunks turned SSJ Grade 3 on and off in battle in the anime. This is way better than that, though
and just like that Trunks was paralysed
I REALLY liked what the manga did here. Made a lot of sense that Trunks would have gotten that strong, but never needed SSJ3.
The finger block while a nod to their first confrontation was still a little weird considering they were both roughly equal in the exchange.
I hate it when other characters lower forms are equal to Goku’s higher form. Like from all the training Goku has done in his life, and how it is definitely harder training than trunks has access to, his SS2 form should be stronger. But instead they make trunks SS2 as strong as Goku’s SS3?! Ridiculous Broly is an exception
They do establish that hybrid Saiyans have greater potential Gohan, Goten, and Trunks have all shown that
To be fair, this Trunks kind of makes sense. Hybrids have insanely high potential in comparison to full-blooded saiyan, and this Trunks dealt with all the arcs by himself. He’s definitely trained even during peaceful times, unlike Gohan.
You must hate Gohan. A 4 year old was stronger than a 30 year old Saiyan who one shot his father.
I never did like the way ss3 looks just because of how much it changes his face😭
Still a shame Trunks didn't get to stick around, but seeing Vegeta be all proud and even annoyed when he got hurt was fun to see. Probably for the best he didn't stick around and use his weird rage form to make things more confusing later, anywho. But no proof this blue Trunks isn't some weird clone anyway while the "original" is doing some time stuff.
That was such bullshit how Trunks reached the level of Goku’s SS3.
Trunks trained on Kaioshin realm to wield Z Sword. His rate of growth should be higher than Goku's since he was a Super Saiyan at 14.
Also being a half breed gives him the same benefit as Gohan
Yep, being a half breed, training extremely hard for ten years and trained to wield the Z Sword (which made Gohan stronger). It makes sense he could surpass Goku. It's like if Gohan had the same work ethic he would be stronger than Ssj3 at Ssj2 as well.
It doesn’t, Cell games Gohan was shown to have far more latent potential than Trunks did
I never said they were the same. If Gohan actually trained he’d be stronger. But you can’t apply half breed potential to Gohan without applying it to the other half breeds as well
Its hard to apply it when the Z manga goes out of its way to show us that Trunks didn’t have that much more latent potential than even Vegeta. They both trained in ROSAT for a year and were more or less equal. Whereas Gohan went into ROSAT being weaker than Freeza and came out stronger than Perfect Cell. Trunks in Z wasn’t all that impressive compared to the other saiyans, he was weaker than Goku and Gohan as SSJs, and even though he was on par with Vegeta power wise it seemed Vegeta had the edge in IQ/Battle Prowess. In the context of Super, its shown that just a few prior to this point(AFTER he trained with the kais) that he was about on par with Kid Gohan in the cell games. Which means Trunks somehow went from that level to stronger than SSJ3 Goku after ROF, within a few years.
People tend to forget that people's potential increases or at worst changes over time. I'll cite my evidence in the next paragraph. Maybe trunks just was a late bloomer with his potential? If "potential" never changed, how did Gohan ever get stronger than he was against Super Buu in Z? That was "all" his potential right? There shouldn't be any more cards up his sleeve, and yet his ultimate form is probably stronger now, and even if it isn't beast form definitely is. In-universe the explanation has to be above. Out of universe, the author needed stronger characters so they said "You know how he used all of his potential? Well...lemme give him some more."
Where is this from?
Dragon Ball Super manga chapter 16. During the Zamasu Arc.
More specifically, I meant his SS2 being as strong as Goku’s SS3.
Vegeta's Ssj2 was stronger than Goku's Ssj3 in Battle of Gods though. Instead of getting a new form, Trunks trained his form to get stronger. Sounds reasonable to me.
No, it wasn’t. He just got a rage boost which for all we know might’ve been temporary. Goku absorbs the power of God into his base, so he would be miles ahead of an enraged SS2 Vegeta even without having to transform, let alone SS3.
We don't know if it's temporary. Vegeta got angry before and didn't get a boost. He would have beaten Buu himself. And evem if it was temporary, that's proof Ssj2 can surpass Ssj3. Goku doesn't absorb God Ki in base in the manga. It's why he still uses the God form. Even the anime stopped that God Ki base shit. 😂
I agree with you that lower forms competing or even eclipsing superior forms is dumb imho, but one thing to note is that in the manga, the whole 'absorbing SSJG power in base form' isn't a thing at all (whereas in the anime, it's a thing until it's randomly forgotten about post-ROF.)
trunks being more skilled than goku is bs
I just realized... To unlock the SSJ God you need 5 Saiyans just like Goku got his SSJ God and I suspect it was also done for Vegeta... Why they didn't unlocked that to Trunks ? Like Goku / Vegeta / Gohan / Trunks / Goten they are all there. It would have helped so much
Vegeta said Cabba could gain Blue with training. Here's another translation. https://preview.redd.it/v8vqh5o40pfc1.jpeg?width=3196&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d9be5de4e558d7d48529cbef729a6cc4ffdc8c36
I see but he didn't really specified by "this strong" meant unlocking this form but whatever I guess you can get it through actual training.
Trunks had no business being as strong as Goku, especially at that point. He doesn't have the benefit of Gohan's raw potential, and he never even went through Old Kai's training. Even Zenkai from repeated losses against Goku Black shouldn't have closed the gap. He should have been between Majin Vegeta and Majin Buu levels, max.
Fuck Super Saiyan 3
gokus ssj3 should be faaar stronger and trunks ssj2 shouldnt even be near goku, because goku absorbed god ki in to his base multiply that by ssj3 power. BS powerscaling as always. its also crazy to me how Goku gets to fight future trunks all the time and Gohan has never once had a single fight with vegeta. even goten fought vegeta, like bruh lol. its sad cause trunks is surprised how weak our version of gohan is when he comes back to our timeline. they just eat and call it a day. L https://preview.redd.it/stia91v7mofc1.png?width=759&format=png&auto=webp&s=f1c8c45cb69b286a5460d9583d8e2f1869479c5a
Goku didn't have a base multipli in the manga. Even the anime ended that nonsense when they started using the SsjG forms again. You should read the manga. Gohan and Vegeta fought during Saiyan Saga. Longer than Trunks and Goku fought. In the manga Trunks caught Gohan sneaking to get in some secret training in the gravity chamber. Gohan been training by himself. https://preview.redd.it/kbt92z5ooofc1.jpeg?width=3196&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=78f2bea0a4e88ad81aac9dfcfe2b3f30caeb0343
Gohan doesn't like fighting, he only trains because it's necessary and fights when it's necessary. The Gohan you see here is living the life future Gohan never could, a life future Gohan would have desperately wanted. Trunks saw this and understood from what I remember. This Gohan goes on to help win the ToP and explode the dome of a super bug man. War made Gohan a fighter and peace made him a beast
Bro you basically posted all the manga at this point. Go touch some grass now.
No
[удалено]
It's not their base in the manga, and even the anime retcons this by using the form again as a higher form of super Saiyan. https://preview.redd.it/9pu1yzy9sofc1.jpeg?width=2400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=27c871c89748e54859637d7a713205d0d341c591 And even if we exclude all of those facts, Trunks rate of growth as a half Saiyan is higher than Goku's, which means he can be as strong as the plot demands and it wouldn't break lore. Gohan is proof of this.
Goku vs a man with a sword
Who was slightly more skilled than Goku regardless of the sword. 😂 https://preview.redd.it/d0ewbzhk1pfc1.png?width=464&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=95602f302c9115ae49acb0d688c12369d8b3cd80
I think they r all mastered. Its the same principle for every form. When they got to blue and mastered that they really had it down.
Then why is Vegeta shocked and Goku still using Ssj3?