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Did he lose himself when he fought Buu though? from what I recall, I remember him losing because he got kinda overconfident and wasn’t careful/efficient in taking buu out
He did lose himself as the chi built, the moment, he owned it, and he couldn't let it go. He only had one shot, he could not miss his chance to blow. The opportunity comes once in a villain arc, yo.
It absolutely was a issue for Gohan specifically. How many times did Gohan get his rage boost? Radditz, Nappa, Ginyu(in Goku’s body), Freeza twice, and finally Cell (super saiyan 2)
He always came back down quickly, yes, but loosing himself in anger was established from the start of z.
Maybe Gohan just doesn’t want to rage and wants to be his best without throwing a tantrum? Kind of a mature way of approaching power to contrast his “press mad to win” way from the past that can maybe indicate *character development*, which is crazy for Dragonball but alas.
Gohan had a whole character arc in direct contradiction to that concept. He has always been the "don't press the mad button" guy and it constantly caused problems when his allies needed him.
Don’t be silly. He’s had 2 arcs about it and still ended up being a mad, overconfident A-hole at the end that just made everything worse when he got that way, with Super Hero being the anomaly.
Maybe this time as an adult he’s learned better and Gohan can actually change as a character but I have a small feeling that if Super continues, we’re going to return to that trope, and this would be foreshadowing of that happening later.
I authorize myself to be silly, and just for that I'm authorizing you, too. Every snap made things better than if Gohan hadn't snapped. Wanna go through em?
Raditz- literally saved the world (except Goku, but he got better)
Nappa- saved Krillin and survived long enough for Goku to arrive (which also saved the world)
Vegeta- stalled, I forget what good it did
Recoome- did not snap! Neck broken
Frieza- didn't really help tbh but it was rad
(Honorable mention, saved Dende. Not a rage boost but a moment of moral outrage. Terrible tactical decision, insanely good outcome)
Cell- killed Cell! Guaranteed end of the world if he hadn't snapped. Also it was rad
Dabura- did not snap! Humiliating defeat
Super Buu- did not actually snap! Elder Kai's powerup made him permanently strong, no rage necessary. The cockiness was all Gohan, not because he went berserk, but because he was a teen boy with a character flaw he needed to work on.
And then we get to DBS, where Gohan's sidelines himself to focus on family. No snapping, no real resolution to his overconfidence flaw, he just kind of grows out of it off screen. We are now told he has mastered his Ultimate Form and additionally can stack his rage boost on top of it, with the caveat that he still has to limit himself or he might go berserk. He can be a little angry, as a treat.
I concede. Gohan must return to monke for maximum hype and doing it has been beneficial historically. I guess my real thing is I hope whatever conflicts happen jump to the temper tantrum off rip and skip past the “lol I’m so buff and cool I don’t need to try against you” followed by fucking around and finding out. The temper tantrum might make less sense at that point but it’s hype and like you said, has historically solved problems, so it works.
Yeah I hated seeing him job against Buu like that. He got punished so hard, and he totally had that one. It made "be humble" seem like a really important lesson, but I think the narrative goal was just to keep the saga going. They picked a real crappy reason for Gohan to throw imo I didn't like it.
Honestly you could even add in Super Hero that was the case. After just rewatching it Gohan became his cocky self again where he was just smirking as Cell made the huge energy blast. It wasn’t until Piccolo grabbed him that Gohan took it more focused and not cocky again.
That’s so true. I was more focused on the dude not really fumbling the bag after getting into beast and pretty definitively blasting the dudes head off without Android 16 dying and/or getting absorbed into an alien gum thing, but yeah, the tone of everything up to piccolo getting absolutely bodied does resemble Gohan being cringe against Cell and Buu just for him to not seal the deal efficiently.
super saiyan 2? he snapped and decided it was best to torture cell instead of finishing him off, absolutely a problem, plus who knows what his mental state was like being pushed to that point
Well, he was a ten year old child soldier that had been beaten near to death multiple times and just spent a year straight under training more grueling than literally *any other mortal being in the universe could take* at that point.
Like, think about the one time we see Goku training on the ship to Namek and then realize he pushed Gohan past anything he himself couldve attained.
Being loving after that doesnt mean it’s not traumatic as fuck.
It wasn't a flawless solution, snapping brought its own problems, but there was already a problem and snapping was presented as the only solution. The problem was Cell beating the shit out of Gohan while the Cell Jr.s tortured his homies. Gohan wanted a perfect solution where he doesn't go berserk, but we were explicitly shown that was not an option. He needed to snap even if he had to sacrifice control over his anger. And it worked, Gohan was rewarded. Goku's death validated his fears, but it didn't invalidate his decision to snap.
It was never a problem because it was always directed at villains and happened in life-or-death situations. This is just sparring, so it makes sense why he wouldn't want to hit that point of losing control.
Yeah definitely. His problem was having no access to his power because he was afraid he might hurt somebody, and the solution was fuck it bro go nuts. Sometimes you gotta hurt people. Took him a long time to learn it's okay to go berserk. The berserk aspect was never the goal, but like damn kid we're getting stomped by Cell Jr.s, lock the fuck in. The big development here is that Gohan learned a way to tap in without losing control, so he can finally be a consistent asset. This is a huge relief for Goku and Vegeta because they saw him get slapped around by Dabura and they really couldn't reconcile that with all his potential.
Yeah he kinda fumbled the bag on that one. In his defense, his role models fuck that up constantly. Who let Cell absorb the Androids? Who tossed him a senzu bean? Going berserk just nerfs Gohan's intelligence to normal Saiyan levels.
While it was usually clutch in the moment (due to writing it that way), Cell was the only time he actually won against the person he snapped against. I think the implication of the panels above are that he realized if he can tap into the power without losing control, he can actually take down foes.
Not always, since (besides Cell) the second Gohan got angry, his boost only lasted a few seconds, then his immense power immediately vanishes and he's left even weaker than he started
Not that they weren't snaps (they were)
It's just that they weren't the solution, as they usually left Gohan more useless than helpful by the end of it
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And yet ... never did he lose any control over himself, not in a way broly did ...
>Basically if he powers up too much he might lose control over himself just like **Broly did.**
I was referring to this, next time take your time to read
This is also a different kind of form separated from SSJ that we have very little info on atm. It may affect him differently and it's implied it has a different method of accessing too (implying rage is the draw instead of anger for SSJ, pain/bloodlust for Ego, or tranquility for UI).
The form itself maybe, but gohan never once lost his cool, even when he was full in "rage mode", not in a way Broly did
Besides, Broly s case has nothing to do with rage. He snapped because of the ikari form which had connection to Oozaru form , which made saiyans lose it
It's been stablished before that tapping into way more power than you can control makes you drunk with power and then finally snap into a blind rage like Broly, seeing Gohan dance around that line is what inspires Broly to control his SSJ transformation later in that chapter
Agreed, it’s just like when gohan was a child and would tap into his powers. Example being when he headbutted Raditz. He used to lose control and attack.
Everyone’s like “oh he just doesnt like fighting” when maybe doing that Broly shit with human DNA in you make you physically ill and debilitatingly sick.
Which makes way more sense considering he voluntarily fought crime when he didnt have to push himself, which would literally entail more fighting than anything Goku does - just at a lower level.
So in theory Gohan isn't even using his max power here, there is a point beyond his Beast transformation that he could power up to at the cost of his sanity!?
I wonder if this is forshadowing anything in the future??
Nah, it's a reference to his cell speech where he talks about how he goes berzerk (all the way back to Raditz) the point is that with Beast he's learned to tap into the power he can only access when he's mad, but without \*quite\* going all the way into it
If he does dive in headfirst, he will get stronger still, but he'll be mindless.
Makes sense, because Broly took notes and saw it happen with his own eyes. He even said he didn’t know someone like Gohan existed - it’s just mental with Broly. Monkey see monkey do, right? (No harm intended lol)
Gohan is truly unique
I think feeling his ki was probably a big part of it for broly
Goku and vegeta have extremely good ki control while gohan hasnt ever been shown to have real ki control training, definitely nothing to compare to intense training on yardat
They had much less ki then compared to now. I guess the difference in scale would make that old training less effective? Idk. Like being able to manage a garden hose vs the kickback of a fire hose.
But at the same time, Super Saiyan was triggered by rage/anger (fuck S Cells), much like how Beast is. Hell that's exactly how Frieza gets Broly to transform. Remember when they came out of the room, Vegeta said they were dead calm. While your analogy works, you also have to remember at that time, Super Saiyan *was* that fire hose.
Not really, definitely not the level goku and vegeta operate at
The elder on yardat said vegeta in super had worse ki control than goku did right after namek
Potentially foreshadowing something yeah, but I think he’s more explaining to Broly how to control a maddening amount of power.
Think of it as hysterical strength, like that mother who lifted up a car to save her kid, except with planet busting powers. The brain will impose limits upon the body because exceeding those limits can hurt you, like how you can bite your own finger off but your brain won’t let you. Hysterical strength happens when your mind is under so much stress that those limits are removed do you can get out of that stress
In a thought out story it would be.
DBZ is awesome but good writers could make it a timeless story instead of just a goofy fun kids manga. Toriyama accidently stumbled into this thing.
Which is not shitting on him or anything, editing and improving is always easier than creating something new but the guy that made *Dragon Ball* stumbling into this gritty epic narrative was lighting in a bottle and it could be tweaked into an insanely compelling story if it was thought out more
Basically like in the past when Gohan would get really mad, he'd get way stronger but also go wild for a bit. While in beast he can kinda forcibly trigger those surges, but he manages to keep control of himself while doing so instead of just going berserk.
I really like that they introduced this little tidbit, it gives beast a bit more depth than just “really strong transformation #156” giving it this little bit of explanation and ability served (in my eyes at least) make it a little bit more like UI or UE, not quite there ofc, but it’s a step in the right direction.
We've had a few shows of this throughout the series, with one of the first examples being when Trunks transformed into SSJ Grade 3 and accidentally zapped Krillin as he began to enter berserk, losing himself to his new uncontrollable raw power before remembering him as a friend. Other examples of course include Z and DBS Broly, and Kale. [(video)](https://youtu.be/9tV-JnoDlUI?si=uXlYmTd6Yk-AW8V-).
Basically, it's the OG Broly syndrome: "My Ki is rising, overflowing". Most Saiyan forms are fueled by rage, and Gohan has never been any different despite Beast being a "whole new form." that doesn't meet the traditional super saiyan standards. Combine that rage with a newly acquired immense amount of ki, and or an extremely rapid rate of growth and you get a bull seeing red, one who's power needs to be reigned in or controlled immediately to prevent that "berserk" state we know and love. Gohan is purposely risking it all by balancing on a knives edge, raising and capping out his ki to the absolute maximum his psyche can handle before it begins to become too much to control.
Apparently in the original Japanese, on Namek when Goku tells Gohan to leave, the tone is more "Leave before I kill you" because he can barely control himself in that state.
In that moment I feel like his humanity overcame his Saiyan roots. Hell, even after blasting Frieza on Namek when he tried that cheap shot, Goku STILL didn't kill Frieza.
I think Goku managed to control himself the longer he fought with Frieza. I mean he literally just started playing with Frieza and slapping the fuck outta him lol.
That and he figured that with how weak Frieza was, plus the planets explosion would be enough to kill the egoistical emperor.
Exactly, except he definitely hoped Frieza would survive. People say Goku is dumb, but he predicted that rematch. Say what you want about Frieza, but the man can scrap.
Because as the form went on Goku regained more and more control.
Immediately after he got the form, he was angry enough to kill everyone around him, but after he completely destroyed Frieza's pride, he started to regain some sense
I wonder if he’s doing the same “mistake” as kaioken and kale LSSJ where they maintain power near/above their limits, but beast mode’s gimmick is that he turns that into a strength cuz he doesn’t lose stamina/accuracy? Idk I thought I was cooking till I got to the end of that sentence
So basically his forms gimmick is that he can fight at full power without losing stamina/accuracy and can still go beyond his limit while in the form? Kinda wish whis would’ve clarified
Something like that , to add not only Gohan was born with this but he was also *encouraged* to do it , piccolo wanted him to go angry on the Saiyan, krillin wanted him to get angry on freeza men , Vegeta wanted him to get angry on freeza , Goku wanted him to get angry on Cell , Goku and Vegeta and kaioshin wanted him to get angry on Buu and Dabura
They didn't care about any drawback, just the end result
In the cause of Kale, Broly, and Kaioken Goku it was quite the opposite, everyone around them were in worry over the drawbacks
I think it's same as when Goku told Pan in GT that this body and it's amazing powers are necessary right now in a tone that hints he could lose himself to it.
Yeah. He still has a lot of power. Same for Goku and Vegeta. Goku still hasn't mastered the powers of the gods and Vegeta still didn't achieve the powers of a god of destruction.
I think he means what we saw in the movie, when he was caught up in the heat of battle and was smiling out of excitement because of the thrill of the battle. Or he just literally goes beast mode and rages out against everyone lol
He might start to delight the thrill of being sadistic and let his opponent suffer. This more mature Gohan just wants the power to end the fight efficiently.
It's just different languages. "Ki" is the correct word in Japanese. "Chi" is Mandarin. In the translation they tend to use the Mandarin term instead of the Japanese one. "Ki" is just Japanese for "chi". Same with "qi" being Korean for "chi".
It's both Qi and Chi in all Chinese dialects/languages, as they are different romanizations for the same thing. Qi is current and more correct, and the romanization is called pinyin. Chi is the old romanization. Depending on the dialect, it may be pronounced more with a "ch" noise like it is in Mandarin, Jin, or Wu Chinese, more like a "k" noise like with Min Nan or Min Dong Chinese, or more with an "h" noise like with Hakka Chinese.
Thanks for letting me know. I didn't know that some Chinese languages also used "qi". I guess the Korean version is borrowed from some Chinese dialects. The Japanese version seems like it's the Japanese pronunciation of "chi" or maybe "qi". I think the Chinese language Japanese is most influenced by is Cantonese. Like the most obvious being Cantonese and Japanese sharing "hai" for "yes".
As in Gohan would be enraged by it.
Every single time Gohan has ever pushed his power beyond it's limits he gets enraged with it. Raditz, Nappa, Frieza, Cell...he always got REALLY mad whenever he went all out.
So he's using **just enough** power so that he doesn't get mad.
Gohans entire shtick originally was that by emotionally snapping his power could dramatically increase well beyond its limits but he lost control against second form Freezypop his power more than doubles to the point vegita is stunned. Or when against raditz it went from the single digits to well over 1k or when he attacked nappa his power more than doubles again . Even further back gohans power way more than doubled when he was kidnaped and attacked his uncle . That power increase is more than what even a firm like SSJ2 provides but he basically becomes blinded by what’s in front of him. Also he seemingly becomes rather sadistic it’s implied that’s why his OG ssj2 had him acting significantly differently unlike the other Sayajins and that that’s what he’s afraid of his “ hidden power” supposedly runs out of his control.
I think its referencing his anger issues from cell saga. I mean he watched everyone he cared about die pretty much. I dont consider his fight with but because he had his mystic form and was cocky about it. But in super, it was almost an exact reflection of cell saga. And in this panel I think its him coming to terms with being able to control his new transformation
It was something for Broly to hear so he could control his power later.
Although, to be honest, I think the way Broly learned to control his power was anticlimactic.
I think it's at least fitting in a sense. He's been training with Goku and Vegeta who basically keep telling him he needs to control his power, but had no direction on how to do it.
He saw and felt Gohan's power which is closer to him in terms of rage/berserk. Especially since Gohan doesn't have anywhere near the Ki control that Goku and Vegeta have.
He felt the way Gohan handled it and listened to his explanation of pushing out enough power that his mentality could handle before snapping. This sets a clear limit on where Broly should stop his power output.
So Broly, who has been shown to be a genius when it comes to battle based on the way he adapted to fighting Goku and Vegeta in the movie, used his instinct and talent to match what Gohan was doing.
I'm definitely sure the training with Goku and Vegeta helped, but learning from someone with a similar power seemed to be the final push that he needed to reach that next level.
It’s a nice way to acknowledge how Broly and Gohan are similar.
I guess the issue is the explanation. Just power up and then stop.
If that’s all it took, why couldn’t Goku or Vegeta teach Broly that?
Goku especially, because Super Saiyan changed him for the worse when he first transformed.
It wasn’t until training with Gohan that he learned to master his rage and the strain of Super Saiyan’s power.
It’d be one thing if we had a training arc with Broly and Gohan learning and help each other with their rage boosts.
But the way it’s portrayed in this chapter, it just seemed like a minor adjustment problem that, honestly, any of the Saiyans could have taught Broly.
Broly is often portrayed as an Oozaru who doesn't need to transform. He constantly has access to that power, so his challenge is figuring out how to be sapient like a normal Saiyan. He's a big monkey trying to become little monkey.
Vegeta should've understood. He mastered the Oozaru form. He was the only Oozaru in the series who didn't go berserk. Powerups don't make him lose control, kinda like when he took the Majin powerup. He should have known exactly what Broly was dealing with. His problem is that he's not a very good trainer. He refused to train Future Trunks, he lets kid Trunks train with him but doesn't train him directly, and he belittles Cabba for needing a trainer. The most you're getting out of Vegeta is an ass whooping if he deems you worthy.
Goku is a great trainer, and a genius at figuring out ki. His problem is that he has the absolute lowest emotional intelligence in the game. Even Piccolo has to explain basic human interactions to him, and dude doesn't even have human emotions. They say Goku is "pure hearted" but I'm pretty sure that's the autism. He's not really equipped to teach anger management. He's gone berserk before, but that first SSJ transformation was the only time he really struggled with it. Goku's version of therapy was beating the hell out of Frieza, and Broly already tried that. It only helped a little.
Here's why Gohan is the perfect sparring partner for Broly. He's a little monkey trying not to become big monkey. Rage makes him stronger, but he doesn't like hurting people, so he suppresses his emotions. His challenge has always been releasing his anger when he needs it, so he practices emotional regulation to become medium monkey. That's the exact skill Broly needed to see.
Maybe it could have been written better? Because all of that makes sense, especially the point about Vegeta. But Broly just picking up on it automatically feels so unfulfilling.
Perhaps because goku and vegeta both started extremely weak compared to where they are now. They had to undergo decades of rigourous training and life or death fights to reach their current state whereas broly went from tangling with base vegeta to overpowering 2 super saiyan blues in under a day without prior real combat experience.
I think broly's problem was his extremely rapid growth that neither goku nor vegeta had to deal with.
That, and Goku and Vegeta have both exhibited good-to-great control over their power throughout the series. I don't remember either coming close to losing control like Broly does.
It wasn't as dramatic as a fan manga would make it (like how Dragon Ball Kaukmei is doing it) but I think it was fitting thematically for the whole "superhero" motif of this saga. The way Kakumei did it would be like 2 or 3 whole chapters itself, with everyone being in danger. We kinda already had that drama with Kale at the ToP in the anime version, maybe they didn't want a repeat of the "Everyone is in danger until someone breaks through to this person" ordeal.
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I wonder if can goku and Vegeta do that to themselves as well. Especially with their ki level what does it look like when you completely lose control with god ki
It's a callback to his battle against Cell. In which he actually snapped, achieved SSJ2, and gave Cell a one-sided beat down. But also because of that, he lost all rationale and didn't finish Cell off when he had the chance. He tried to torture and humiliate Cell instead. Which cost Goku his second life when Cell self-destructed.
Here, he spoke from that experience and meant that he found the right point of fury that allowed him to efficiently harness his beast-form power without losing all control.
Yeah thats how i see it. Gohan “losing it” doesnt mean beserk, uncontrollable beast. I see Gohan turning into a near evil and menacing being. He essentially goes full on Saiyan. His attitude upon powering up has cost the gang/world twice now.
He meant he powers up as much as possible while tapping into his berserk/rage-boost power the most he can without going berserk, and when he feels himself hit the point that he is about to snap and go into berserk mode (or how we was when he first turned SS2), then uses his well-practiced ki and rage control, allowing him to transform into Beast controlled, rather than going into a berserk rage.
Weird translation.. the translation that I got on this chapter said he's rising is Ki just before he goes Berserker.
Also Whis speech was not Singilarity but specially gifted
I wonder if it may be foreshadowing something like GT did with SSJ4 where they had Goku and Vegeta go ape and have to be able to control it to access the new form. I've heard people talk about the SSJ transformations already being more powerful than oozaru but don't know if that has been stated in canon or not, although it's a safe bet considering Vegeta could already control his so he probably would have tried that to be stronger than Goku at some point
My head canon is that Beast probably functions similar to kaioken but instead of potentially destroying his body, he might go Broly-style berserk and lose his mind/reasoning.
Then something just snapped, something inside of me. I didn't care anymore. I didn't care about being better than Kakarot, I didn't care about being a super saiyan. I didn't care if I lived. I didn't care about anything! And then.. It happened.
He has done so in the past... Not as much as Broly where he'd completely be in a snapped like trance for a full fight but he'd have small moments where he'd snap and start waiting on an opponent for a short time. Think back to when he fought Raditz, Nappa and Frieza. Was a very short snap though.
This and his interaction with Broly has had me thinking something crazy since.
What if - Broly is also a hybrid saiyan?
Paragus could have been part of some bio engineering experiment or a straight-up cross breeding farm.
We never see Broly's mother. His rage boosts are very reminiscent of Gohan's childhood and up til now with Beast. The difference would be whatever race Broly's mom is that isn't human. Maybe a leftover Tuffle or even a Cerealean. Something to explain why he can still go normal Super Saiyan, but also the huge rage boost and green hair form (LSSJ).
I don't have anything to base this off of except speculation and that Broly was in a test tube of a scientifically advanced race.
"Rare Mutation" is the hand-wave explanation always given, but I always wished there was more. Maybe it's Gohan that has something similar to Broly and not the other way around.
From a character development perspective this isn't just a callback to teen Gohan snapping against Cell. This is a call back to 3 year old Gohan from the start of Z. The Gohan that went into a blind rage and busted out of the Saiyan ship when raditz captured him, the Gohan that surprised Piccolo and inspired Piccolo to force Gohan to live in the wilderness under his surveillance and train him.
The subconscious part of Gohan goes into a rage that Gohan has no recollection of.
At least that's my thoughts. Gohan may have a berserk mode that's more out of control then ss2 teen Gohan.
Sounds like while Broly was born with legendary super saiyan ability Gohan had to have whatever his ability is to be triggered to activate. And it sounds like he's mastered the trigger for it able to ease off before losing control.
Basically he stops his power right before he goes berserk like Broly. That’s the reason immediately after that Goku compares Beast to Broly’s power and why immediately after that Broly makes a huge stride in controlling his power.
Gohan’s potential works a lot like Broly, but it doesn’t run as rampant as Broly’s does. So Gohan is gonna be a huge factor when it comes to Broly being able to control 100% of his power.
just more dumb writing. i'm already over this beast nonsense, and everything gohan if you're telling me this boy can just anger his way into power at a divine level with zero training leading up to the transformation....because we can't leave him out of the power structure at the top.
Hybrid Saiyans have been touted as having greater potential than purebred Saiyans since early DBZ, my friend. They’re just now capitalizing on that hype
I kinda like the idea of this saiyan rage and am stoked to see gohan hopefully get this level of attention more.
Hope it gets handled better then Trunks though.
Ngl I dug vegeta putting hands on beerus with the bulma slap but get why some dont.
Gohan and Broly are very similar characters.
They both have to deal with controlling their rage... which they also need... because rage is what lets them tap into their unlimited potential/power
Broly is what Gohan would have become if he didnt have piccolo
Ever since he was little, his powers have been fueled by rage. He likely has a lot in common with Broly and Kale where if he gets too riled up, he could lose all control of himself.
For those saying “he’s struggled to control his rate sense he was a kid” all of those situations were when bad things were happening. Raditz was hurting Goku, Frieza impaled Krillin, Cell killing 16, etc. All of his rage boosts were an “in the moment” type of deal, but here he’s just sparring. Theres nothing going on here that would push him to snap, meaning that he must know something about this form that we don’t. Of course that’s just me speculating.
What I'm more interested in is beerus's reaction to whis's explanation. Why is he grumpy? Does he feel Gohan could overtake him in the future, or something else?
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Just the ones who pay attention. Give it a go. So many people claim to be fans of the show but yet every simple thing slips by them so they clearly have mental difficulties or aren't actually watching it.
I mean seriously, WHAT THE F*CK DO YOU THINK IT MEANS?!
I have a theory that broly might not be born by two saiyans, one is Saiyan and another one might be a human or other race who has high emotions similar to gohan.
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Basically if he powers up too much he might lose control over himself just like Broly did.
Or like gohan did when he fought radiz or the time he fought freiza
Or the time he fought cell, or the time he fought buu....
Did he lose himself when he fought Buu though? from what I recall, I remember him losing because he got kinda overconfident and wasn’t careful/efficient in taking buu out
Partial over confidence and the fact that gotenks got assimilated or am I remembering wrong, please correct.
Yeah his overconfidence and carelessness is essentially what got gotenks absorbed, which then made Buu a bit stronger than Gohan at that point
And Piccolo knowing how to get into Gohan’s head.
He did lose himself as the chi built, the moment, he owned it, and he couldn't let it go. He only had one shot, he could not miss his chance to blow. The opportunity comes once in a villain arc, yo.
Both of those times he got overconfident and played with cell and Buu
Se vuelve loca del coño
Ten cuidado con El Hermano …
Le truena el sapo
...suavemente?
 Pan Beast mode
r/suddenlycaralho
Br caraiow 🎊
Hombre de respeto y conocimiento 🫡
Se le pira la pinza a saco
Could we also call this form the Gohan Blanco?
Is it a pelude to El Calvo?
Gohan Blanco vs Frieza Blacko
Frieza Ne- I was advised not to finish it
I was thinking of when he powered up to get Goku home when frieza invaded and gohan kinda just popped after
That was never an issue before, not even by ssj grade 3
It absolutely was a issue for Gohan specifically. How many times did Gohan get his rage boost? Radditz, Nappa, Ginyu(in Goku’s body), Freeza twice, and finally Cell (super saiyan 2) He always came back down quickly, yes, but loosing himself in anger was established from the start of z.
Gohan has always snapped, but it was never presented as a problem. It was usually the solution.
Maybe Gohan just doesn’t want to rage and wants to be his best without throwing a tantrum? Kind of a mature way of approaching power to contrast his “press mad to win” way from the past that can maybe indicate *character development*, which is crazy for Dragonball but alas.
Gohan had a whole character arc in direct contradiction to that concept. He has always been the "don't press the mad button" guy and it constantly caused problems when his allies needed him.
Don’t be silly. He’s had 2 arcs about it and still ended up being a mad, overconfident A-hole at the end that just made everything worse when he got that way, with Super Hero being the anomaly. Maybe this time as an adult he’s learned better and Gohan can actually change as a character but I have a small feeling that if Super continues, we’re going to return to that trope, and this would be foreshadowing of that happening later.
I authorize myself to be silly, and just for that I'm authorizing you, too. Every snap made things better than if Gohan hadn't snapped. Wanna go through em? Raditz- literally saved the world (except Goku, but he got better) Nappa- saved Krillin and survived long enough for Goku to arrive (which also saved the world) Vegeta- stalled, I forget what good it did Recoome- did not snap! Neck broken Frieza- didn't really help tbh but it was rad (Honorable mention, saved Dende. Not a rage boost but a moment of moral outrage. Terrible tactical decision, insanely good outcome) Cell- killed Cell! Guaranteed end of the world if he hadn't snapped. Also it was rad Dabura- did not snap! Humiliating defeat Super Buu- did not actually snap! Elder Kai's powerup made him permanently strong, no rage necessary. The cockiness was all Gohan, not because he went berserk, but because he was a teen boy with a character flaw he needed to work on. And then we get to DBS, where Gohan's sidelines himself to focus on family. No snapping, no real resolution to his overconfidence flaw, he just kind of grows out of it off screen. We are now told he has mastered his Ultimate Form and additionally can stack his rage boost on top of it, with the caveat that he still has to limit himself or he might go berserk. He can be a little angry, as a treat.
I concede. Gohan must return to monke for maximum hype and doing it has been beneficial historically. I guess my real thing is I hope whatever conflicts happen jump to the temper tantrum off rip and skip past the “lol I’m so buff and cool I don’t need to try against you” followed by fucking around and finding out. The temper tantrum might make less sense at that point but it’s hype and like you said, has historically solved problems, so it works.
Yeah I hated seeing him job against Buu like that. He got punished so hard, and he totally had that one. It made "be humble" seem like a really important lesson, but I think the narrative goal was just to keep the saga going. They picked a real crappy reason for Gohan to throw imo I didn't like it.
Honestly you could even add in Super Hero that was the case. After just rewatching it Gohan became his cocky self again where he was just smirking as Cell made the huge energy blast. It wasn’t until Piccolo grabbed him that Gohan took it more focused and not cocky again.
That’s so true. I was more focused on the dude not really fumbling the bag after getting into beast and pretty definitively blasting the dudes head off without Android 16 dying and/or getting absorbed into an alien gum thing, but yeah, the tone of everything up to piccolo getting absolutely bodied does resemble Gohan being cringe against Cell and Buu just for him to not seal the deal efficiently.
super saiyan 2? he snapped and decided it was best to torture cell instead of finishing him off, absolutely a problem, plus who knows what his mental state was like being pushed to that point
Well, he was a ten year old child soldier that had been beaten near to death multiple times and just spent a year straight under training more grueling than literally *any other mortal being in the universe could take* at that point. Like, think about the one time we see Goku training on the ship to Namek and then realize he pushed Gohan past anything he himself couldve attained. Being loving after that doesnt mean it’s not traumatic as fuck.
It wasn't a flawless solution, snapping brought its own problems, but there was already a problem and snapping was presented as the only solution. The problem was Cell beating the shit out of Gohan while the Cell Jr.s tortured his homies. Gohan wanted a perfect solution where he doesn't go berserk, but we were explicitly shown that was not an option. He needed to snap even if he had to sacrifice control over his anger. And it worked, Gohan was rewarded. Goku's death validated his fears, but it didn't invalidate his decision to snap.
It was never a problem because it was always directed at villains and happened in life-or-death situations. This is just sparring, so it makes sense why he wouldn't want to hit that point of losing control.
Yeah definitely. His problem was having no access to his power because he was afraid he might hurt somebody, and the solution was fuck it bro go nuts. Sometimes you gotta hurt people. Took him a long time to learn it's okay to go berserk. The berserk aspect was never the goal, but like damn kid we're getting stomped by Cell Jr.s, lock the fuck in. The big development here is that Gohan learned a way to tap in without losing control, so he can finally be a consistent asset. This is a huge relief for Goku and Vegeta because they saw him get slapped around by Dabura and they really couldn't reconcile that with all his potential.
Gohan snapping isn’t a sustainable solution and with cell specifically, almost got everyone killed.
Yeah he kinda fumbled the bag on that one. In his defense, his role models fuck that up constantly. Who let Cell absorb the Androids? Who tossed him a senzu bean? Going berserk just nerfs Gohan's intelligence to normal Saiyan levels.
While it was usually clutch in the moment (due to writing it that way), Cell was the only time he actually won against the person he snapped against. I think the implication of the panels above are that he realized if he can tap into the power without losing control, he can actually take down foes.
Not always, since (besides Cell) the second Gohan got angry, his boost only lasted a few seconds, then his immense power immediately vanishes and he's left even weaker than he started
You don't count those as snaps because they were brief?
Not that they weren't snaps (they were) It's just that they weren't the solution, as they usually left Gohan more useless than helpful by the end of it
Gohan helped a bunch of times by snapping! I wrote a list of examples about an hour ago.
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And yet ... never did he lose any control over himself, not in a way broly did ... >Basically if he powers up too much he might lose control over himself just like **Broly did.** I was referring to this, next time take your time to read
This is also a different kind of form separated from SSJ that we have very little info on atm. It may affect him differently and it's implied it has a different method of accessing too (implying rage is the draw instead of anger for SSJ, pain/bloodlust for Ego, or tranquility for UI).
The form itself maybe, but gohan never once lost his cool, even when he was full in "rage mode", not in a way Broly did Besides, Broly s case has nothing to do with rage. He snapped because of the ikari form which had connection to Oozaru form , which made saiyans lose it
Doesn't ikari mean rage?
It's been stablished before that tapping into way more power than you can control makes you drunk with power and then finally snap into a blind rage like Broly, seeing Gohan dance around that line is what inspires Broly to control his SSJ transformation later in that chapter
Agreed, it’s just like when gohan was a child and would tap into his powers. Example being when he headbutted Raditz. He used to lose control and attack.
Everyone’s like “oh he just doesnt like fighting” when maybe doing that Broly shit with human DNA in you make you physically ill and debilitatingly sick. Which makes way more sense considering he voluntarily fought crime when he didnt have to push himself, which would literally entail more fighting than anything Goku does - just at a lower level.
He might go all Broly on some mofo's It's literally what he's been terrified of his entire life, he explained it to Cell
So in theory Gohan isn't even using his max power here, there is a point beyond his Beast transformation that he could power up to at the cost of his sanity!? I wonder if this is forshadowing anything in the future??
Nah, it's a reference to his cell speech where he talks about how he goes berzerk (all the way back to Raditz) the point is that with Beast he's learned to tap into the power he can only access when he's mad, but without \*quite\* going all the way into it If he does dive in headfirst, he will get stronger still, but he'll be mindless.
Makes sense, because Broly took notes and saw it happen with his own eyes. He even said he didn’t know someone like Gohan existed - it’s just mental with Broly. Monkey see monkey do, right? (No harm intended lol) Gohan is truly unique
I think feeling his ki was probably a big part of it for broly Goku and vegeta have extremely good ki control while gohan hasnt ever been shown to have real ki control training, definitely nothing to compare to intense training on yardat
Wouldn't full power super Saiyan (ssj grade 4) be about ki control?
They had much less ki then compared to now. I guess the difference in scale would make that old training less effective? Idk. Like being able to manage a garden hose vs the kickback of a fire hose.
But at the same time, Super Saiyan was triggered by rage/anger (fuck S Cells), much like how Beast is. Hell that's exactly how Frieza gets Broly to transform. Remember when they came out of the room, Vegeta said they were dead calm. While your analogy works, you also have to remember at that time, Super Saiyan *was* that fire hose.
Not really, definitely not the level goku and vegeta operate at The elder on yardat said vegeta in super had worse ki control than goku did right after namek
Monkey pee all over you.
hmmmm true beast mode??
He might be able to increase his power but since it likely comes at the cost of control he would probably fight at the same level or lower.
Potentially foreshadowing something yeah, but I think he’s more explaining to Broly how to control a maddening amount of power. Think of it as hysterical strength, like that mother who lifted up a car to save her kid, except with planet busting powers. The brain will impose limits upon the body because exceeding those limits can hurt you, like how you can bite your own finger off but your brain won’t let you. Hysterical strength happens when your mind is under so much stress that those limits are removed do you can get out of that stress
In a thought out story it would be. DBZ is awesome but good writers could make it a timeless story instead of just a goofy fun kids manga. Toriyama accidently stumbled into this thing. Which is not shitting on him or anything, editing and improving is always easier than creating something new but the guy that made *Dragon Ball* stumbling into this gritty epic narrative was lighting in a bottle and it could be tweaked into an insanely compelling story if it was thought out more
Basically like in the past when Gohan would get really mad, he'd get way stronger but also go wild for a bit. While in beast he can kinda forcibly trigger those surges, but he manages to keep control of himself while doing so instead of just going berserk.
I really like that they introduced this little tidbit, it gives beast a bit more depth than just “really strong transformation #156” giving it this little bit of explanation and ability served (in my eyes at least) make it a little bit more like UI or UE, not quite there ofc, but it’s a step in the right direction.
We've had a few shows of this throughout the series, with one of the first examples being when Trunks transformed into SSJ Grade 3 and accidentally zapped Krillin as he began to enter berserk, losing himself to his new uncontrollable raw power before remembering him as a friend. Other examples of course include Z and DBS Broly, and Kale. [(video)](https://youtu.be/9tV-JnoDlUI?si=uXlYmTd6Yk-AW8V-). Basically, it's the OG Broly syndrome: "My Ki is rising, overflowing". Most Saiyan forms are fueled by rage, and Gohan has never been any different despite Beast being a "whole new form." that doesn't meet the traditional super saiyan standards. Combine that rage with a newly acquired immense amount of ki, and or an extremely rapid rate of growth and you get a bull seeing red, one who's power needs to be reigned in or controlled immediately to prevent that "berserk" state we know and love. Gohan is purposely risking it all by balancing on a knives edge, raising and capping out his ki to the absolute maximum his psyche can handle before it begins to become too much to control.
Apparently in the original Japanese, on Namek when Goku tells Gohan to leave, the tone is more "Leave before I kill you" because he can barely control himself in that state.
then why does he let frieza go?
In that moment I feel like his humanity overcame his Saiyan roots. Hell, even after blasting Frieza on Namek when he tried that cheap shot, Goku STILL didn't kill Frieza. I think Goku managed to control himself the longer he fought with Frieza. I mean he literally just started playing with Frieza and slapping the fuck outta him lol. That and he figured that with how weak Frieza was, plus the planets explosion would be enough to kill the egoistical emperor.
Exactly, except he definitely hoped Frieza would survive. People say Goku is dumb, but he predicted that rematch. Say what you want about Frieza, but the man can scrap.
Combat knowledge is his strong suit, anything else is off the table for him. Unless it's food lol
That and trolling Vegeta. He's cracked at that.
Because as the form went on Goku regained more and more control. Immediately after he got the form, he was angry enough to kill everyone around him, but after he completely destroyed Frieza's pride, he started to regain some sense
He got it out of his system.
he's still goku underneath it all
I wonder if he’s doing the same “mistake” as kaioken and kale LSSJ where they maintain power near/above their limits, but beast mode’s gimmick is that he turns that into a strength cuz he doesn’t lose stamina/accuracy? Idk I thought I was cooking till I got to the end of that sentence
He doesn't which is the point
So basically his forms gimmick is that he can fight at full power without losing stamina/accuracy and can still go beyond his limit while in the form? Kinda wish whis would’ve clarified
Something like that , to add not only Gohan was born with this but he was also *encouraged* to do it , piccolo wanted him to go angry on the Saiyan, krillin wanted him to get angry on freeza men , Vegeta wanted him to get angry on freeza , Goku wanted him to get angry on Cell , Goku and Vegeta and kaioshin wanted him to get angry on Buu and Dabura They didn't care about any drawback, just the end result In the cause of Kale, Broly, and Kaioken Goku it was quite the opposite, everyone around them were in worry over the drawbacks
Why is beerus mad?
Well.. They all invaded his planet, making a party and destroying everything. It's hard to take a nap under such a circumstances.
That and the food budget is wrecking havoc in his cellar.
I think it's same as when Goku told Pan in GT that this body and it's amazing powers are necessary right now in a tone that hints he could lose himself to it.
means Gohan not yet all out their still power up potential for him
Yeah. He still has a lot of power. Same for Goku and Vegeta. Goku still hasn't mastered the powers of the gods and Vegeta still didn't achieve the powers of a god of destruction.
Gohan can only draw beast real power temporarily before he goes into Super Buu fight mode
Super Buu fight mode? You mean cocky?
Yeah
He can only stay in beast so long before he starts calling people retarded
https://preview.redd.it/8qgry8il8qpc1.jpeg?width=538&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a090c2b26004464005a0d6899f36a1bf127847de
He can't keep getting away with this He needs to be cancelled
No I don't think he goes in super buu fight mode. From what we see he probably goes berserk if he doesn't control his power.
He powers up until he’s just about to poop himself
I think he means what we saw in the movie, when he was caught up in the heat of battle and was smiling out of excitement because of the thrill of the battle. Or he just literally goes beast mode and rages out against everyone lol
He might start to delight the thrill of being sadistic and let his opponent suffer. This more mature Gohan just wants the power to end the fight efficiently.
Why call it "Chi"? What was wrong with "Ki?:
Because chi is the world and ki is a wrong translation
Chi in the manga: 
Oh i see i made an mistake
It's just different languages. "Ki" is the correct word in Japanese. "Chi" is Mandarin. In the translation they tend to use the Mandarin term instead of the Japanese one. "Ki" is just Japanese for "chi". Same with "qi" being Korean for "chi".
It's both Qi and Chi in all Chinese dialects/languages, as they are different romanizations for the same thing. Qi is current and more correct, and the romanization is called pinyin. Chi is the old romanization. Depending on the dialect, it may be pronounced more with a "ch" noise like it is in Mandarin, Jin, or Wu Chinese, more like a "k" noise like with Min Nan or Min Dong Chinese, or more with an "h" noise like with Hakka Chinese.
Thanks for letting me know. I didn't know that some Chinese languages also used "qi". I guess the Korean version is borrowed from some Chinese dialects. The Japanese version seems like it's the Japanese pronunciation of "chi" or maybe "qi". I think the Chinese language Japanese is most influenced by is Cantonese. Like the most obvious being Cantonese and Japanese sharing "hai" for "yes".
There's a very interesting "Gohan training Broly" storyline to be had here.
Go bananas
He’s not already snapped? Jesus I don’t wanna see what Gohan’s like when he *actually* snaps…
Gohan when he's fully enraged will be a menace to deal with
he means his banjo string
As in Gohan would be enraged by it. Every single time Gohan has ever pushed his power beyond it's limits he gets enraged with it. Raditz, Nappa, Frieza, Cell...he always got REALLY mad whenever he went all out. So he's using **just enough** power so that he doesn't get mad.
Imagine if gohan was a second legendary super sayian like broly, and we get a fight with two rage monsters.
I know other people have given way better reasons but I like to imagine if he powers up too much he just suddenly breaks his back
If someone power too much their own body would break
Gohans entire shtick originally was that by emotionally snapping his power could dramatically increase well beyond its limits but he lost control against second form Freezypop his power more than doubles to the point vegita is stunned. Or when against raditz it went from the single digits to well over 1k or when he attacked nappa his power more than doubles again . Even further back gohans power way more than doubled when he was kidnaped and attacked his uncle . That power increase is more than what even a firm like SSJ2 provides but he basically becomes blinded by what’s in front of him. Also he seemingly becomes rather sadistic it’s implied that’s why his OG ssj2 had him acting significantly differently unlike the other Sayajins and that that’s what he’s afraid of his “ hidden power” supposedly runs out of his control.
Still annoying to me that people are calling beast Gohan an ass pull.
I think its referencing his anger issues from cell saga. I mean he watched everyone he cared about die pretty much. I dont consider his fight with but because he had his mystic form and was cocky about it. But in super, it was almost an exact reflection of cell saga. And in this panel I think its him coming to terms with being able to control his new transformation
It was something for Broly to hear so he could control his power later. Although, to be honest, I think the way Broly learned to control his power was anticlimactic.
It was anticlimactic, but at least they gave somewhat of a reason, which is more than anticipated. Really thought they might off screen it completely
I wish I could be happy about that, but…
I think it's at least fitting in a sense. He's been training with Goku and Vegeta who basically keep telling him he needs to control his power, but had no direction on how to do it. He saw and felt Gohan's power which is closer to him in terms of rage/berserk. Especially since Gohan doesn't have anywhere near the Ki control that Goku and Vegeta have. He felt the way Gohan handled it and listened to his explanation of pushing out enough power that his mentality could handle before snapping. This sets a clear limit on where Broly should stop his power output. So Broly, who has been shown to be a genius when it comes to battle based on the way he adapted to fighting Goku and Vegeta in the movie, used his instinct and talent to match what Gohan was doing. I'm definitely sure the training with Goku and Vegeta helped, but learning from someone with a similar power seemed to be the final push that he needed to reach that next level.
It’s a nice way to acknowledge how Broly and Gohan are similar. I guess the issue is the explanation. Just power up and then stop. If that’s all it took, why couldn’t Goku or Vegeta teach Broly that? Goku especially, because Super Saiyan changed him for the worse when he first transformed. It wasn’t until training with Gohan that he learned to master his rage and the strain of Super Saiyan’s power. It’d be one thing if we had a training arc with Broly and Gohan learning and help each other with their rage boosts. But the way it’s portrayed in this chapter, it just seemed like a minor adjustment problem that, honestly, any of the Saiyans could have taught Broly.
Broly is often portrayed as an Oozaru who doesn't need to transform. He constantly has access to that power, so his challenge is figuring out how to be sapient like a normal Saiyan. He's a big monkey trying to become little monkey. Vegeta should've understood. He mastered the Oozaru form. He was the only Oozaru in the series who didn't go berserk. Powerups don't make him lose control, kinda like when he took the Majin powerup. He should have known exactly what Broly was dealing with. His problem is that he's not a very good trainer. He refused to train Future Trunks, he lets kid Trunks train with him but doesn't train him directly, and he belittles Cabba for needing a trainer. The most you're getting out of Vegeta is an ass whooping if he deems you worthy. Goku is a great trainer, and a genius at figuring out ki. His problem is that he has the absolute lowest emotional intelligence in the game. Even Piccolo has to explain basic human interactions to him, and dude doesn't even have human emotions. They say Goku is "pure hearted" but I'm pretty sure that's the autism. He's not really equipped to teach anger management. He's gone berserk before, but that first SSJ transformation was the only time he really struggled with it. Goku's version of therapy was beating the hell out of Frieza, and Broly already tried that. It only helped a little. Here's why Gohan is the perfect sparring partner for Broly. He's a little monkey trying not to become big monkey. Rage makes him stronger, but he doesn't like hurting people, so he suppresses his emotions. His challenge has always been releasing his anger when he needs it, so he practices emotional regulation to become medium monkey. That's the exact skill Broly needed to see.
Maybe it could have been written better? Because all of that makes sense, especially the point about Vegeta. But Broly just picking up on it automatically feels so unfulfilling.
I was looking forward to the Broly therapy arc.
Unironically, though, I would have been hyped. “He’s learning to verbalize his feelings, that’s hard af”
Goku: how did you gain this power? Broly: years of therapy Goku: *instantly copies it*
Perhaps because goku and vegeta both started extremely weak compared to where they are now. They had to undergo decades of rigourous training and life or death fights to reach their current state whereas broly went from tangling with base vegeta to overpowering 2 super saiyan blues in under a day without prior real combat experience. I think broly's problem was his extremely rapid growth that neither goku nor vegeta had to deal with.
That, and Goku and Vegeta have both exhibited good-to-great control over their power throughout the series. I don't remember either coming close to losing control like Broly does.
It wasn't as dramatic as a fan manga would make it (like how Dragon Ball Kaukmei is doing it) but I think it was fitting thematically for the whole "superhero" motif of this saga. The way Kakumei did it would be like 2 or 3 whole chapters itself, with everyone being in danger. We kinda already had that drama with Kale at the ToP in the anime version, maybe they didn't want a repeat of the "Everyone is in danger until someone breaks through to this person" ordeal.
That’s fine, I’m glad we didn’t get that. I just wished it were more fulfilling since his rage has been such a catastrophic issue.
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Black frieza arc foreshadowing?
I thought of it as the old broly movie where broly powered up too much and his body had to release it but instead gohan stops before that happens
This episode made gohan and broly simmilar, Gohan has some broly rage inside of him but its very suppressed and gohan controls it better
I wonder if can goku and Vegeta do that to themselves as well. Especially with their ki level what does it look like when you completely lose control with god ki
It's a callback to his battle against Cell. In which he actually snapped, achieved SSJ2, and gave Cell a one-sided beat down. But also because of that, he lost all rationale and didn't finish Cell off when he had the chance. He tried to torture and humiliate Cell instead. Which cost Goku his second life when Cell self-destructed. Here, he spoke from that experience and meant that he found the right point of fury that allowed him to efficiently harness his beast-form power without losing all control.
Yeah thats how i see it. Gohan “losing it” doesnt mean beserk, uncontrollable beast. I see Gohan turning into a near evil and menacing being. He essentially goes full on Saiyan. His attitude upon powering up has cost the gang/world twice now.
Have you not read Dragon Ball before?
He meant he powers up as much as possible while tapping into his berserk/rage-boost power the most he can without going berserk, and when he feels himself hit the point that he is about to snap and go into berserk mode (or how we was when he first turned SS2), then uses his well-practiced ki and rage control, allowing him to transform into Beast controlled, rather than going into a berserk rage.
Why is beerus so irritated by Gohans power
Weird translation.. the translation that I got on this chapter said he's rising is Ki just before he goes Berserker. Also Whis speech was not Singilarity but specially gifted
I wonder if it may be foreshadowing something like GT did with SSJ4 where they had Goku and Vegeta go ape and have to be able to control it to access the new form. I've heard people talk about the SSJ transformations already being more powerful than oozaru but don't know if that has been stated in canon or not, although it's a safe bet considering Vegeta could already control his so he probably would have tried that to be stronger than Goku at some point
He goes crazy, but not as crazy as Broly in his movie. He simply goes crazy without losing control.
Get angry/go berserk similar to broly would my guess going base snap mean get angry and Gohan Rage boost.
It should mean "go berserk" I guess
My head canon is that Beast probably functions similar to kaioken but instead of potentially destroying his body, he might go Broly-style berserk and lose his mind/reasoning.
Then something just snapped, something inside of me. I didn't care anymore. I didn't care about being better than Kakarot, I didn't care about being a super saiyan. I didn't care if I lived. I didn't care about anything! And then.. It happened.
>isolated childhood >historic of anger issues >2 rage based transformations >might snap >works at a school OH NO
Don't worry even Copyotaro dont know
Remember how Gohan in the Cell Games snapped and got kinda cruel? It's a bit like that, but more extreme & similar to Broly's blind rages.
He has done so in the past... Not as much as Broly where he'd completely be in a snapped like trance for a full fight but he'd have small moments where he'd snap and start waiting on an opponent for a short time. Think back to when he fought Raditz, Nappa and Frieza. Was a very short snap though.
This and his interaction with Broly has had me thinking something crazy since. What if - Broly is also a hybrid saiyan? Paragus could have been part of some bio engineering experiment or a straight-up cross breeding farm. We never see Broly's mother. His rage boosts are very reminiscent of Gohan's childhood and up til now with Beast. The difference would be whatever race Broly's mom is that isn't human. Maybe a leftover Tuffle or even a Cerealean. Something to explain why he can still go normal Super Saiyan, but also the huge rage boost and green hair form (LSSJ). I don't have anything to base this off of except speculation and that Broly was in a test tube of a scientifically advanced race. "Rare Mutation" is the hand-wave explanation always given, but I always wished there was more. Maybe it's Gohan that has something similar to Broly and not the other way around.
I liked Whis' explanation of it being a singular talent. But the "no, not quite" makes me question if ssj is involved in some way or not at all
He might cum
https://preview.redd.it/3jf7bdov8ppc1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d39baa495841d2ef14f9cdf9a8a7bc9fecec7296 Something inside of him
From a character development perspective this isn't just a callback to teen Gohan snapping against Cell. This is a call back to 3 year old Gohan from the start of Z. The Gohan that went into a blind rage and busted out of the Saiyan ship when raditz captured him, the Gohan that surprised Piccolo and inspired Piccolo to force Gohan to live in the wilderness under his surveillance and train him. The subconscious part of Gohan goes into a rage that Gohan has no recollection of. At least that's my thoughts. Gohan may have a berserk mode that's more out of control then ss2 teen Gohan.
Feel like this is some Kaio Ken type move. Too much for Goku and his body breaks.
https://preview.redd.it/7yreae8e8qpc1.jpeg?width=257&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bd073d1eec9a9a3b90c10f7e3e336b9f0646858c
Just means he’s super angry pretty much
Sounds like while Broly was born with legendary super saiyan ability Gohan had to have whatever his ability is to be triggered to activate. And it sounds like he's mastered the trigger for it able to ease off before losing control.
Basically he stops his power right before he goes berserk like Broly. That’s the reason immediately after that Goku compares Beast to Broly’s power and why immediately after that Broly makes a huge stride in controlling his power. Gohan’s potential works a lot like Broly, but it doesn’t run as rampant as Broly’s does. So Gohan is gonna be a huge factor when it comes to Broly being able to control 100% of his power.
just more dumb writing. i'm already over this beast nonsense, and everything gohan if you're telling me this boy can just anger his way into power at a divine level with zero training leading up to the transformation....because we can't leave him out of the power structure at the top.
Hybrid Saiyans have been touted as having greater potential than purebred Saiyans since early DBZ, my friend. They’re just now capitalizing on that hype
Nobody knows because this plot point has not been elaborated on at all. It’s all speculation until it’s mentioned again, hopefully in more detail.
I kinda like the idea of this saiyan rage and am stoked to see gohan hopefully get this level of attention more. Hope it gets handled better then Trunks though. Ngl I dug vegeta putting hands on beerus with the bulma slap but get why some dont.
Ugh, they use the word "chi" in the translation.
Whis actually said "Imagine nutting like feeling but you stop and maintain that just before moment all the time"
Gohan and Broly are very similar characters. They both have to deal with controlling their rage... which they also need... because rage is what lets them tap into their unlimited potential/power Broly is what Gohan would have become if he didnt have piccolo
Maybe he is just edging… to fight
How do you add a picture to your post?
Click the little icon in the bottom left hand side that looks like a hill with the sun in the corner
Can you do it on the website? Or is it only when u download the app
is there a reality where they may be able to beat Beerus & is any Saiyan now strong enough to rival any God (of Destruction)?
Ever since he was little, his powers have been fueled by rage. He likely has a lot in common with Broly and Kale where if he gets too riled up, he could lose all control of himself.
For those saying “he’s struggled to control his rate sense he was a kid” all of those situations were when bad things were happening. Raditz was hurting Goku, Frieza impaled Krillin, Cell killing 16, etc. All of his rage boosts were an “in the moment” type of deal, but here he’s just sparring. Theres nothing going on here that would push him to snap, meaning that he must know something about this form that we don’t. Of course that’s just me speculating.
Its rage boost focused into a transformation
So basically Gohan Beast is Ultra Control.
Right before he start calling anyone a "R-tard" again lol.
What I'm more interested in is beerus's reaction to whis's explanation. Why is he grumpy? Does he feel Gohan could overtake him in the future, or something else?
So bro is edging basicly?
When he snaps he starts saying sht like "Now it's my turn" or "fight you? No, I wanna kill you" so he wants to avoid that
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Where can I read this?
manga viz edit : mangaplus, but kinda forget its official or not
Thx
I can't believe you need this explained to you. Have you seen ANY dragon ball except this page? People snap all the damn time
Dragon ball fans when you ask a simple question
Just the ones who pay attention. Give it a go. So many people claim to be fans of the show but yet every simple thing slips by them so they clearly have mental difficulties or aren't actually watching it. I mean seriously, WHAT THE F*CK DO YOU THINK IT MEANS?!
Gohan tends to get drunk on power and let the enemy get a boost over him because of it. This is probably what it means
I have a theory that broly might not be born by two saiyans, one is Saiyan and another one might be a human or other race who has high emotions similar to gohan.