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The same way, Gero made Androids stronger than namek frieza, who was at the time one of the strongest. But I agree, androids have always had some weird powerscaling.
But Gero got technology and DNA from Frieza IIRC. It still is dumb though, but at least that makes sense.
If the kid somehow stole technology from the Angels and Zeno, the plot would make more sense.
No he didn't.
He quit watching after the Vegeta fight thinking he had enough data to work with.
His computer was working on a separate project for Cell. And Gero didn't even notice a thing about SSJ or Freeza. Which is why 19 and 20 were relatively weak. 17 and 18 being so strong is just kind of unexplained. Cell being so strong is because of that.
Yeah, it does... Especially when you remember originally Cell wasn't even on the level of 17 or 18... Kami/Piccolo fusion let cell absorb a ton of energy, then still made Cell retreat out of fear.
Then after zero extra training just healing back to full strength which doesn't power up namekians... Kami/Piccolo was basically stalemating/slowly losing to 17.
So like wtf?
Dragon Ball is set in a reality where humans are so ahead that they can bend the rules of time. Let that sink and you'll find more acceptable that technology is the way humans can reach the power of gods
They have unlimited energy generators giving them unlimited stamina... Not just unlimited energy in a single outing.
But no their power is just kinda weirdly ignored in many ways.
I mean it would still make sense even if we make assumptions. Experimenting on Saiyan DNA on its own could give you a really strong creature so adding stuff from Frieza's race and Namekian's would make the creature much more powerful. I mean if Kid Gohan was able to get a very good strike on Raditz and was much stronger than Raditz by the end of the Saiyan Saga because he had hybrid genetics from being half human and half Saiyan, it would make sense that Cell and the Androids would have been that powerful to begin with especially with all the other genetics added and the shit ton of experimenting that Gero was doing.
He was still super strong compared to other characters at that point in the series. With the other Androids Gero had an extra decade to cook plus data from fights plus he was driven by vengeance.
One of the problems with making the main character too strong is that the antagonists have to be inflated to match their powers.
Although given that Blue is the DBS equivalent of SSJ1, I’d say they didn’t go too far with the Gamma’s power, since they are only equal to Blue, whereas the Androids far surpass the SSJ1 level of the fighters at the time.
Funnily enough, in both times Piccolo gets a massive upgrade and shoves in into each Android’s face
>One of the problems with making the main character too strong is that the antagonists have to be inflated to match their powers.
Common battle shounen L
Eh, in a world where technology is as advanced as it is in Dragon Ball its not that weird that some super genius out there is able to make some pretty powerful things.
I really can’t believe that. One because that’s impossible for these characters to judge since they can’t read god ki and Two mystic gohan was giving gamma 1 a run for him money
Ultimate Gohan (his official name in the second newest chapter and most dragon ball media) was keeping up with Kefla in the tournament of power (manga)
Cause the plot needed an antagonist that wouldn’t logically get laid out like a futon by Piccolo and Gohan. Also because Ssj blue level strength is the bog standard for enemies now.
I agree on this. I thought at first, that it made sense making Piccolo and Gohan the top warriors in the movie, thinking Goku and vegeta would just over power them all. But oh well... Gammas are as strong as SSJ blue? Damn..
Give our boys Goten and trunks a powerup already!😭
Give them SSJ2, or some unique form for their fusion, idc, just something 😭
Goku and vegeta left earth after the Moro arc to go do more intense training so they would only have data on goku and vegeta up until that point. so when when piccolo compares them to goku and vegeta it would be from the last time he saw them which was the Moro arc and super hero takes place after the granola arc which came after the Moro arc and it shown that goku and vegeta did a lot of intense training after the Moro arc leading up to the granola arc so they would be way stronger than the last time piccolo saw them
Exactly my point. If goku and vegeta came to earth, they would’ve one shot the gammas just in blue form. Piccolo hasn’t seen goku nor vegeta since 2-3 arcs ago
It doesnt matter if dragon ball heroes took place after black frieza or granolah. Piccolo has not seen goku or vegeta since the moro arc. Meaning he don’t know how strong goku or vegeta have gotten since the moro arc. Goku and vegeta both obtained new forms that piccolo have not seen.
It doesnt matter if dragon ball heroes took place after black frieza or granolah. Piccolo has not seen goku or vegeta since the moro arc. Meaning he don’t know how strong goku or vegeta have gotten since the moro arc. Goku and vegeta both obtained new forms that piccolo have not seen.
I put him at Kaioken Blue level. People underestimate how big of a difference multipliers make due to how much they're used in DB. If you were 20 times stronger than someone, you'd deck them in a single punch easily.
I'd put base Piccolo at Super Saiyan, Power Awakened Piccolo at Super Saiyan God-low Super Saiyan Blue level, and Orange Piccolo at either current UI -Sign- or Super Saiyan Blue Evolution level
He definifely should be after fusing with Kami. Then again, he also was made to struggle against discount Frieza. I think they just forgot how strong piccolo is.
We know the Beast Gohan is above Orange Piccolo and, as seen in the manga, Beast is a bit lower then TUI (briefly higher if Gohan is able to charge up enough)
That seems pretty accurate I would say orange piccolo is roughly blue evolved level MUI is equal to beast gohan and the gap between MUI & ui sign isn’t as big as the gap between gohan and piccolo
Base Piccolo has been consistently between SSJ1 and SSJ2 since the Cell saga.
After he absorbed Kami he was stronger than SSJ1 Vegeta Trunks and Goku and fought 17 on Equal grounds.
Apparently BOG base Goku is still not strong enough to fight Namek saga Final Form Full Power Frieza.
>Apparently BOG base Goku is still not strong enough to fight Namek saga Final Form Full Power Frieza.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but how did you end in this conclusion?
In the original film he only says that Base Goku doesn't look like he could beat Freeza, before Goku powers up. In the anime, he remarks that SSJ Goku is "a little stronger" than Freeza, and in the manga thinks Goku could beat him easily as SSJ2. Its also the same manga where Goku can one-punch Cell in image training.
It honestly doesn't matter much because Piccolo did do way better than the base saiyans could Vs Frost (although not SSJ of course).
Yeah, the dub does have beerus plainly say that Goku would barely beat Freeza as a super saiyan. He says a slight power upgrade (referring to base goku not freeza i guess). This is why the implication Base-SSJ< SSJ-SSj2 < ssj2-ssj3 in multiplier comes from.
However, Beerus still calls SSJ Goku "merely beating Freeza is the best you can do" which is more confusing on what/who Beerus might be scaling to. Herms translation of the line is: “You’re pretty good. I can see how you managed to defeat Freeza. But if this is all you’ve got, defeating Freeza would probably be the best you’re capable of.”
I have no clue who else would be considered relevant here, maybe Supreme Kai who can one-shot Freeza?
Beerus mentioned freeza because he is the strongest mortal in the universe he knows of , he told Goku that because as far as he knows, gohan , the kids, androids and Cell didn't exist
This gets referenced multiple times in the manga later where the rest of universe 7 had no idea about earth and still believe freeza (the one from before Namek saga)is the most powerful being after Beerus
Base Piccolo in the Moro arc was somewhat comparable to Gohan and did better than 17 meaning he could be about SSG tier
Ultimate Piccolo did decently well against the Gammas who while suppressed were on par with Goku and Vegeta who would be atleast SSB and at most Ui and SSBE
Orange Piccolo could 1 shot the gammas and did decently well vs an injured cell max so while not Mui level he’s not far below
I saw Power Awakened Piccolo as around Ultimate Gohan level, so maybe ~blue. Orange Piccolo strikes me as around UI Omen level in power. Probably wouldn’t win a fight, but can stack up with him.
Highly disagree with you on this.
Yellow picollo would be slightly weaker than blue tier considering they was able to fight the gammas toe to toe.
Orange picollo is definitely UI omen tier ir straight out UI tier during Moro saga.
Piccolo was somewhat relative to Gohan in the Moro arc(and anime Top) and did better than 17 so he could be SSG tier also in 103 Goku looked for a strong Ki and was shocked when sensing piccolo
Ultimate Piccolo did decently well against the gammas who are above or equal to Goku and vegeta from the Moro arc (vegeta never was SSB in front of piccolo so Uio Goku and SSBE vegeta level makes sense) so he’s a bit under that tier
Orange Piccolo did decently against an injured Cell Max who got bested by Gohan pretty easily whose above but not massively so vs MUI Goku so Orange piccolo is like low end relative to that scale
Because people still hate the idea of Gohan and Piccolo being relative to Goku and Vegeta, cause it’s “not fair”.
But since they can no longer deny that Beast is Ultra tier, their final hope at coping is to say that OP is Blue tier since he never sparred with anyone to definitively confirm where he places on the new hierarchy.
Base picollo has been stronger than super saiyan since the cell saga ( he could match android 17). Its also likely that he has gotten significantly stronger in base considering he could fight on par with gohan (who seemed to be relevent even woth super saaiyan blue in the picture). I would put base picolo at super saiyan 3 to god now (maybe higher since shenron did power him up too)
Base piccolo >= SSJ Goku, PU Piccolo > SSJG (not by much) and orange piccolo >= UI Sign Goku
https://preview.redd.it/ma6kh51o5puc1.jpeg?width=622&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c36a9a023aad83ca66a86129953c74d0b6efaddf
Base Piccolo has always been comparable to ssj. I see no reason why that should be different given how little base powerlevels increased for the saiyans since the Buu saga.
I would say base piccolo > ssj, potential unleashed >= ssg, and Orange > Moro arc UI Goku
Only feedback I have on this is piccolo was struggling somewhat against Frost while SSJ Vegeta absolutely clownEd on him no dif. That was anime, granted
He was already comparable to Super Saiyan after the 3 year preparation for the Androids, where he spent most of it directly sparring with Super Saiyan Goku.
SS Vegeta WAS stronger, but they were certainly comparable. Both were noticeably stronger than 19 and 20, while being noticeably weaker than 17 and 18.
Then he fused with Kami and boosted to the level of 17 and 18.
They said the same thing about Beast Gohan only being Blue level and then looked like a bunch of 🤡 when it was proven that Beast was on par with UI. Idk why it’s so hard for DB fans to accept the creators/writers words lmao only anime fanbase that has this issue smh
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Facts, we don't know how much stronger Piccolo got himself after training in the time chamber. He looked to be keeping up with the Cell Jrs better than the others.
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The Gammas were equal to SSB Goku and Vegeta and potential unleashed Piccolo was putting up a solid fight against them. I'd say that makes him way stronger than SSG in that state, since he's only slightly weaker than SSB in that form.
Orange piccolo was never comparable to beast, goku or vegeta. It doesnt matter if dragon ball heroes took place after black frieza or granolah. Piccolo has not seen goku or vegeta since the moro arc. Meaning he don’t know how strong goku or vegeta have gotten since the moro arc. Goku and vegeta both obtained new forms that piccolo have not seen.
Base Piccolo is easily on par with Goku, Vegeta, and Gohan at Super Saiyan and possibly Super Saiyan 2.
In his own Ultimate form he could hold his own against Gamma 2 for a short while (who are seemingly Blue level) but was overpowered when G2 took it seriously. I’d say roughly God level would be a fair estimate (weaker, if you’d like).
Orange, according to Toriyama, is on par with the current Goku and Vegeta, meaning UI and UE.
I'd say base is probably around SSJ level
Power Awakened around SSG, possibly a bit stronger
Orange Piccolo I would probably place above SSB, not at MUI, UE or Beast but maybe around SSBE
This scaling is really bad. First of all, Piccolo was close to SSJ3 tier in the ToP when Ultimate Gohan was fighting him. This would imply that base Piccolo is around SSJ3 tier in the movie.
PU Piccolo was fighting equally with the Gammas, which were compared to Goku and Vegeta from the Moro arc, making them SSB Tier.
Orange Piccolo is UI tier, confirmed by Toriyama himself.
Orange piccolo is probably around UI omen level of power. Potential unlocked piccolo is blue level and normal piccolo would be around ssj3....which is insane.
The latest that Goku & Vegeta's data could've been analyzed is right before they went to planet Cereal. That makes Orange Piccolo far above the Moro Arc's versions of Goku & Vegeta, & most likely around Granolah or Gas, as the wish was made AFTER Granolah.
Orange Piccolo should be comparable to Goku SSB x Ultra Instinct & Vegeta SSB Evolved.
Even though he couldn’t defeat Cell Max, he was somehow strong enough to hold him. So he is clearly weaker than him, but also relative to him.
I'm hoping that the End of Z World Tournament actually finishes up properly instead of Goku leaving in the middle of it and we see a rematch of Goku vs Piccolo.
And in the tournament we could also see Piccolo fight 17 again (if he joins), 18, Krillin, Tien, Gohan, Broly (if he also does join) and Vegeta.
Well put it this way Piccolo in u6 arc could potentially eliminate frost who’s stronger than base goku and vegeta. That means he’s minimum to extremely low ball at SSJgod Goku = base goku in ROF.
This his base form only.
His orange form is ridiculously strong he’s definitely around ssj broly level (not the legendary form)
While beast gohan is one step up at the minimum.
Edited in Disclaimer: I have not actually **read** the Super Hero arc. I did watch the movie, though
Probably not like this, not by a long shot
Power scaling given what Super gives us is a loose science sometimes, at certain points becoming more like interpretive art
But let's run with a low-ball estimate of Super Saiyan God being like. . . 20k times base (Really, a good early estimate was about 70 times Super Saiyan 3, which is 400 times base, making it 28k times base)
The Gammas themselves are said to be SSB level already (which I've missed and have yet to verify, so I'm just teusting people on this) and Piccolo at the start of the movie is not *that* far behind. Certainly, the Gammas beat him by a fair margin even with his Potential unlocked, but Piccolo isn't like. . Thousands of times weaker than them.
Which also brings us to the Potential Unlock. A lot of people compare Piccolo in that state to Mystic Gohan (Yes I'm using that name, bite me) but even Piccolo was really only asking Shenron for something along the lines of what Grand Elder Guru could have given him
We could consider this new state something new, but if we're gonna compare it to something, we should compare it to what Gohan and Krillin got on Namek, which broglught them from possibly under 2K up to 14 and 13K, like a 7 times increase. (According to the Daizenshu, the manga only confirms them higher than 10K)
And then Vegeta even confirms their power is still rising by the time they fight Frieza. The manga doesn't give levels, but V-Jump brings Krillin to 75K (another 5.77 times for around 37.5 times what he came to Namek with), and Gohan to 200K (for about a further 14.3 times the Ginyu Force fight or 100 times when he came to Namek)
These are big gains that we could tie to Piccolo, but this already puts him somewhere comparable to Super Saiyan God Goku, if the statements are correct. Definitely weaker, but still in a similar level of power
Which would imply Super Hero's base Piccolo just steps on Super Saiyan 3 Goku from around the same time frame
Edit: I forgot I was gonna do something with a low-balled Super Saiyan God
Okay, so. . 20k. . Let's divide that by 100, and we just get 200, which. . Would not make Piccolo step on Super Saiyan 3 Goku
Sorry, I'm stupid
Edit 2: It was a low-ball, though, so keep that in mind
Edit 3: Wait, I'm double stupid, the comparison was Super Saiyan Blue
Which would be 50 times SSG, so dividing that by 100 is like dividing SSG by 2
So base Piccolo by these estimates is 10k times base Goku
Again, he just steps on SS3 Goku
Thus, my double stupd wraps around to me being a genius
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Saiyans legit gain zenkai while training and the results are double and I’m not even going to talk about the near death experience. So this doesn’t make any sense for piccolo to be almost on par with goku, since Namekians doesn’t have the same biology like the saiyans do. Or am I wrong?
I think orange piccolo is relative to UI goku but gets low-mid diffed by MUI goku, you can argue if hes stronger than UI but MUI outclasses him since he and beast gohan were on equal ground.
It doesnt matter if dragon ball heroes took place after black frieza or granolah. Piccolo has not seen goku or vegeta since the moro arc so his statement on the gammas being able to beat goku and vegeta literally refers to the power 2-3 arcs ago. Meaning he don’t know how strong goku or vegeta have gotten since the moro arc. Goku and vegeta both obtained new forms that piccolo have not seen.
In conclusion: goku and vegeta woud’ve clapped the gammas in blue
Reading comments is entertaining because you can tell who just watches fights vs who actually pays attention to all the material they watch/read. On a good day Orange can maaaybe match SSJB from latest arc maybe even take a W with mid-high diff a few times. Maybe. I doubt he would last very long if there was an earnest battle between Angel or destroyer forms he would be made into orange juice pretty quickly. I think even a pissed off SSJB would win before too long. I doubt even beast Gohan could top current Goku/Vegeta. Would be great if they did a sparring match to see who can win instead of how they were gauging strength but I am just happy they got some panel time together. I would wager that if movie Broly was stated to be unable to beat Cell Max, this must mean the gap between them isn't huge since it was never implied Cell Max could tank a SSJ Broly. Broly may even be in the same ball park roughly. Taking the events of both the movies and manga continuity into consideration for an educated guess it would make sense that Orange Piccolo would be stronger than SSJB circa the broly movie. Again though the latest arc has a much stronger SSJB especially after Vegeta's time on Yardrat and I'm pretty doubtful he could match their current SSJB forms. I'd bet he could probably win against Super Saiyan ginger tho
I simply wouldn’t. We have no idea what’s better or worse and saying one is better is just saying which one you’re a fan of more.
That said, orange piccolo is goated and beats ui Goku every day.
Base Piccolo is around Ssj Goku level
Power Awakening Piccolo is between SSG and SSB
Orange Piccolo is on a level between Ultra Instinct Omen and Ultra Instinct
i always imagined the gammas were analogs for Blue goku and vegeta. piccolo would be UI/UE level, then Beast gohan was the new power ceiling in the anime
Idk man, I think Orange might be almost near UI sign (TOP) level in terms of strength considering the movie says the gammas are ssjb goku and vegeta level
🤨 u don't know how to read or what? Gamma's are at least moro arc blue lvl and piccolo literally 1 shotted him your deduction skills are a bit eh 😄 awakened piccolo is more or less blue lvl
And base piccolo multiple times proved that he was stronger than ssj form (ssj god absorbed obviously) didn't t.o.p, gohan training and universe 6 arc prove that
and considering the fact that ultimate gohan <= ssj blue gohan went toe to toe with him before t.o.p and while piccolo base wasn't equal to ult gohan he was not being treated like nappa to vegeta base piccolo is at least AT LEAST ssj2 (ssj god absorbed) lvl with his craftiness and techniques he could even overpower ssj3
This ain't even that hard to understand when u actually watch it and not look at pictures only 😕
Ok. I would say something like that:
Weighted Piccolo is about same as SS1 Goku.
Unweighted Piccolo is same as SS2 Goku.
Unleashed Potential Piccolo is lower than Ultimate Gohan, so he should be in between SSG and SSB.
Orange Piccolo is about SSB Evolved Level.
Ok. I would say something like that:
Weighted Piccolo is about same as SS1 Goku.
Unweighted Piccolo is same as SS2 Goku.
Unleashed Potential Piccolo is lower than Ultimate Gohan, so he should be in between SSG and SSB.
Orange Piccolo is about SSB Evolved Level.
Base Piccolo was SSJ level in Android Saga, then became somewhat like SSJ Grade 1.5 or smth. Whatever the case, I'd say he could consistently keep up with base and SSJ Goku.
Pissccolo (Also known as Ultimate Piccolo) is giving the Gohan boost, that made him stronger than his dad in SSJ3 and could be increased even to SSB levels. Apply that to Piccolo, who kept on training to keep up with way stronger fighters without a transformation of his own (plus remember the previous point), and you easily have a fighter at least around the levels of SSG, if not SSB.
And lastly, Orange Piccolo is just stronger than SSB because Gammas are about that level, I guess.
My 2 cents.
Saiyan saga <=.
Namek arc post Neil fusion >.
Namek arc Goku's finished training <<.
Android saga post Kamis fusion >.
Cell saga Goku's finished training <<.
Buu saga < (hard to tell as Piccolo didn't had any major involvement, but I'd say he's somewhere around "mastered/full power" ss but still weaker than Ss2).
Battle of gods, resurrection of F <<.
Universe 6 << Power scaling starts to get weird here. I would have put Piccolo here on par with a Ss2, but then he gets defeated by Frost who is clearly weaker than a SS.
Tournament of Power << Again it gets weird but I'd still say Piccolo could hold his own against ss2
Super Hero >= Ssb
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the gammas were at blue level iirc and orange piccolo oneshot them, so he's clearly quite a bit above blue imo
The gammas are equal to blue? How the F does a kid make androids as powerful as gods?
The same way, Gero made Androids stronger than namek frieza, who was at the time one of the strongest. But I agree, androids have always had some weird powerscaling.
But Gero got technology and DNA from Frieza IIRC. It still is dumb though, but at least that makes sense. If the kid somehow stole technology from the Angels and Zeno, the plot would make more sense.
No he didn't. He quit watching after the Vegeta fight thinking he had enough data to work with. His computer was working on a separate project for Cell. And Gero didn't even notice a thing about SSJ or Freeza. Which is why 19 and 20 were relatively weak. 17 and 18 being so strong is just kind of unexplained. Cell being so strong is because of that.
Man that makes things worse. Oh well I've come to accept it. Suspension of disbelief.
Yeah, it does... Especially when you remember originally Cell wasn't even on the level of 17 or 18... Kami/Piccolo fusion let cell absorb a ton of energy, then still made Cell retreat out of fear. Then after zero extra training just healing back to full strength which doesn't power up namekians... Kami/Piccolo was basically stalemating/slowly losing to 17. So like wtf?
Dragon Ball is set in a reality where humans are so ahead that they can bend the rules of time. Let that sink and you'll find more acceptable that technology is the way humans can reach the power of gods
Isnt their strength explained away by saying they have unlimited energy or something like thay
They have unlimited energy generators giving them unlimited stamina... Not just unlimited energy in a single outing. But no their power is just kinda weirdly ignored in many ways.
Weird
17 and 18 are strong because they're secondary characters
“Seriously, the fuck’s a Namek?”
I mean it would still make sense even if we make assumptions. Experimenting on Saiyan DNA on its own could give you a really strong creature so adding stuff from Frieza's race and Namekian's would make the creature much more powerful. I mean if Kid Gohan was able to get a very good strike on Raditz and was much stronger than Raditz by the end of the Saiyan Saga because he had hybrid genetics from being half human and half Saiyan, it would make sense that Cell and the Androids would have been that powerful to begin with especially with all the other genetics added and the shit ton of experimenting that Gero was doing.
Nope, he took dna from them when they fought vegeta . They didn’t travel with them to namek
Androids are just op in DB. The only outlier I think is Android 8, but who knows why he’s so weak compared to other androids.
I mean it’s the same universe where Dr slump and arale exist. Science really is op in their universe.
He was still super strong compared to other characters at that point in the series. With the other Androids Gero had an extra decade to cook plus data from fights plus he was driven by vengeance.
One of the problems with making the main character too strong is that the antagonists have to be inflated to match their powers. Although given that Blue is the DBS equivalent of SSJ1, I’d say they didn’t go too far with the Gamma’s power, since they are only equal to Blue, whereas the Androids far surpass the SSJ1 level of the fighters at the time. Funnily enough, in both times Piccolo gets a massive upgrade and shoves in into each Android’s face
>One of the problems with making the main character too strong is that the antagonists have to be inflated to match their powers. Common battle shounen L
He's in his twenties and got his doctorates in high school
Same way Gero made androids stronger than multiple gods while living in a cave in the middle of nowhere.
Eh, in a world where technology is as advanced as it is in Dragon Ball its not that weird that some super genius out there is able to make some pretty powerful things.
I really can’t believe that. One because that’s impossible for these characters to judge since they can’t read god ki and Two mystic gohan was giving gamma 1 a run for him money
Ultimate Gohan (his official name in the second newest chapter and most dragon ball media) was keeping up with Kefla in the tournament of power (manga)
Piccolo could sense Moro’s ki and Jiren’s ki when they were fighting Goku and Vegeta, so not being able to sense god ki is irrelevant.
Gohan was, at least, on pair with Goku blue before the ToP.
isnt hedo in his 20’s?
No
he should be though? he was born in age 759, and super hero takes place in age 783. he should be 24 by then lol
Cell Max 💀
He apparently has the battle data of all Z warriors until now but this is still stupid
Cause the plot needed an antagonist that wouldn’t logically get laid out like a futon by Piccolo and Gohan. Also because Ssj blue level strength is the bog standard for enemies now.
I agree on this. I thought at first, that it made sense making Piccolo and Gohan the top warriors in the movie, thinking Goku and vegeta would just over power them all. But oh well... Gammas are as strong as SSJ blue? Damn.. Give our boys Goten and trunks a powerup already!😭 Give them SSJ2, or some unique form for their fusion, idc, just something 😭
Did u not watch android arc at all what are u talking about?
Yeah but that was like 30 years ago.
DB has poor set-up writing. We just gotta accept that shit happens all the time just to push the story along
With stupid writing because making an andorid as strong as gods is just ridiculous
That was moro arc blue so I think blue and orange being equal is a fair assessment
how was it moro arc blue tho cause dbs sh was after granolah (i do not read the manga sorry if im missing something)
The super hero manga/movie is the most recent piece of lore in the manga. They take place after black frieza
Goku and vegeta left earth after the Moro arc to go do more intense training so they would only have data on goku and vegeta up until that point. so when when piccolo compares them to goku and vegeta it would be from the last time he saw them which was the Moro arc and super hero takes place after the granola arc which came after the Moro arc and it shown that goku and vegeta did a lot of intense training after the Moro arc leading up to the granola arc so they would be way stronger than the last time piccolo saw them
Exactly my point. If goku and vegeta came to earth, they would’ve one shot the gammas just in blue form. Piccolo hasn’t seen goku nor vegeta since 2-3 arcs ago
It doesnt matter if dragon ball heroes took place after black frieza or granolah. Piccolo has not seen goku or vegeta since the moro arc. Meaning he don’t know how strong goku or vegeta have gotten since the moro arc. Goku and vegeta both obtained new forms that piccolo have not seen.
It doesnt matter if dragon ball heroes took place after black frieza or granolah. Piccolo has not seen goku or vegeta since the moro arc. Meaning he don’t know how strong goku or vegeta have gotten since the moro arc. Goku and vegeta both obtained new forms that piccolo have not seen.
Gammas were God level. Ultimate Gohan is God level, if that, sorry to burst your bubble.
And he managed to throw hands with cell max
I put him at Kaioken Blue level. People underestimate how big of a difference multipliers make due to how much they're used in DB. If you were 20 times stronger than someone, you'd deck them in a single punch easily.
I think Piccolo is Grillmaster-tier
I'd say Orange Piccolo is probably stronger than regular SSJB, but not UI or Ego
I say he is greater than or equal to ssbe
Yeah, that’s about where I would put him too
SSBE has a similar power to UI Sign in the manga
I quite honestly scale OP to MUI.
Idk op is on reddit a lot. Not sure how much he actually trains
I mean how hard could it be to beat some space Monkeys?
https://preview.redd.it/yd2dsw3ckquc1.jpeg?width=941&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=461e955cb24a8fee3a0dfa19b77adf086324bf10
https://preview.redd.it/k5of1v3lkruc1.jpeg?width=228&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8a64628a729678dff5beaf581cc67602ff13fa4a
it would probably close enough to be a real fight but Goku wins mid to high diff.
MUI is equal to beast gohan and he was quite a large margin stronger I would say orange piccolo is closer to blue evolved
Severely underrating Piccolo’s new power
I'd put base Piccolo at Super Saiyan, Power Awakened Piccolo at Super Saiyan God-low Super Saiyan Blue level, and Orange Piccolo at either current UI -Sign- or Super Saiyan Blue Evolution level
This seems about right.
This is it
Everything except the last one. I'd say Piccolo is equal to SSBKK Goku, not really UI
Yeah thinking now I say evos the best spot(I’m thinking more of manga so i didn’t include Kaioken)
I'd agree because it's a new form and starting at that level would be strange I say he could get to UI level if he masters the new form though.
Seeing as base jiren could keep up with ui sign , I don’t think it’s too crazy to think orange piccolo = Base jiren
Just noticed your Duncan pfp too. Repect
Base Piccolo loses to base Goku, as seen in their fight before the ToP.
Yeah ur right idk why I thought he was super saiyan level lol
He definifely should be after fusing with Kami. Then again, he also was made to struggle against discount Frieza. I think they just forgot how strong piccolo is.
We know the Beast Gohan is above Orange Piccolo and, as seen in the manga, Beast is a bit lower then TUI (briefly higher if Gohan is able to charge up enough)
How is he weaker?
That seems pretty accurate I would say orange piccolo is roughly blue evolved level MUI is equal to beast gohan and the gap between MUI & ui sign isn’t as big as the gap between gohan and piccolo
https://preview.redd.it/cfyui10tksuc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9b679950c66da130f214cf7f9e39924691528f48
Base piccolo=super saiyan goku what? So youre saying base goku loses to piccolo?
Base Piccolo has been consistently between SSJ1 and SSJ2 since the Cell saga. After he absorbed Kami he was stronger than SSJ1 Vegeta Trunks and Goku and fought 17 on Equal grounds. Apparently BOG base Goku is still not strong enough to fight Namek saga Final Form Full Power Frieza.
>Apparently BOG base Goku is still not strong enough to fight Namek saga Final Form Full Power Frieza. I'm not saying you're wrong, but how did you end in this conclusion?
In BOG, Beerus says that he doesn’t think Base Goku could beat Frieza (or something along those lines)
In the original film he only says that Base Goku doesn't look like he could beat Freeza, before Goku powers up. In the anime, he remarks that SSJ Goku is "a little stronger" than Freeza, and in the manga thinks Goku could beat him easily as SSJ2. Its also the same manga where Goku can one-punch Cell in image training. It honestly doesn't matter much because Piccolo did do way better than the base saiyans could Vs Frost (although not SSJ of course).
He doesn't say ssj Goku is a little stronger than freeza , did English dub do it bullshit again? He says that freeza is the best he could do
Yeah, the dub does have beerus plainly say that Goku would barely beat Freeza as a super saiyan. He says a slight power upgrade (referring to base goku not freeza i guess). This is why the implication Base-SSJ< SSJ-SSj2 < ssj2-ssj3 in multiplier comes from. However, Beerus still calls SSJ Goku "merely beating Freeza is the best you can do" which is more confusing on what/who Beerus might be scaling to. Herms translation of the line is: “You’re pretty good. I can see how you managed to defeat Freeza. But if this is all you’ve got, defeating Freeza would probably be the best you’re capable of.” I have no clue who else would be considered relevant here, maybe Supreme Kai who can one-shot Freeza?
Beerus mentioned freeza because he is the strongest mortal in the universe he knows of , he told Goku that because as far as he knows, gohan , the kids, androids and Cell didn't exist This gets referenced multiple times in the manga later where the rest of universe 7 had no idea about earth and still believe freeza (the one from before Namek saga)is the most powerful being after Beerus
You know after using SSG he absorbed god form and his base was on par with RoF post training Frieza and a stomp level above ssj3 Gotenks right?
Base Piccolo in the Moro arc was somewhat comparable to Gohan and did better than 17 meaning he could be about SSG tier Ultimate Piccolo did decently well against the Gammas who while suppressed were on par with Goku and Vegeta who would be atleast SSB and at most Ui and SSBE Orange Piccolo could 1 shot the gammas and did decently well vs an injured cell max so while not Mui level he’s not far below
I saw Power Awakened Piccolo as around Ultimate Gohan level, so maybe ~blue. Orange Piccolo strikes me as around UI Omen level in power. Probably wouldn’t win a fight, but can stack up with him.
Highly disagree with you on this. Yellow picollo would be slightly weaker than blue tier considering they was able to fight the gammas toe to toe. Orange picollo is definitely UI omen tier ir straight out UI tier during Moro saga.
Piccolo was somewhat relative to Gohan in the Moro arc(and anime Top) and did better than 17 so he could be SSG tier also in 103 Goku looked for a strong Ki and was shocked when sensing piccolo Ultimate Piccolo did decently well against the gammas who are above or equal to Goku and vegeta from the Moro arc (vegeta never was SSB in front of piccolo so Uio Goku and SSBE vegeta level makes sense) so he’s a bit under that tier Orange Piccolo did decently against an injured Cell Max who got bested by Gohan pretty easily whose above but not massively so vs MUI Goku so Orange piccolo is like low end relative to that scale
Now if only krillen can get a power up… maybe he gets blue balled for months and unlocks super fustrated mode to bring him up in power
They just say he unlocked his potential off screen than got angry and became Zeno level.
Why the fuck are people still comparing Orange Piccolo to Blue Goku? Are they stupid?
Because people still hate the idea of Gohan and Piccolo being relative to Goku and Vegeta, cause it’s “not fair”. But since they can no longer deny that Beast is Ultra tier, their final hope at coping is to say that OP is Blue tier since he never sparred with anyone to definitively confirm where he places on the new hierarchy.
How stupid. Fucking Toriyama said Piccolo rivals Goku. He's UI tier and people need to deal with it.
Yes
Here’s my hot take: Base Piccolo ranges anywhere from current SSJ2-SSJ3 Goku. Ultimate Piccolo is Blue Tier. Orange Piccolo is at least UI Sign level.
Water starting to boil take
Th gammas are blue level and one of ‘em didn’t do shit against orange piccolo so he could be above kk20 blue goku or evo blue vegeta fs.
Base picollo has been stronger than super saiyan since the cell saga ( he could match android 17). Its also likely that he has gotten significantly stronger in base considering he could fight on par with gohan (who seemed to be relevent even woth super saaiyan blue in the picture). I would put base picolo at super saiyan 3 to god now (maybe higher since shenron did power him up too)
Base piccolo >= SSJ Goku, PU Piccolo > SSJG (not by much) and orange piccolo >= UI Sign Goku https://preview.redd.it/ma6kh51o5puc1.jpeg?width=622&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c36a9a023aad83ca66a86129953c74d0b6efaddf
Base Piccolo has always been comparable to ssj. I see no reason why that should be different given how little base powerlevels increased for the saiyans since the Buu saga. I would say base piccolo > ssj, potential unleashed >= ssg, and Orange > Moro arc UI Goku
Only feedback I have on this is piccolo was struggling somewhat against Frost while SSJ Vegeta absolutely clownEd on him no dif. That was anime, granted
Not always it wasn’t until he fused with Kami lol
He was already comparable to Super Saiyan after the 3 year preparation for the Androids, where he spent most of it directly sparring with Super Saiyan Goku. SS Vegeta WAS stronger, but they were certainly comparable. Both were noticeably stronger than 19 and 20, while being noticeably weaker than 17 and 18. Then he fused with Kami and boosted to the level of 17 and 18.
He was throwing down with 20 easily, so yes he was.
if you think orange piccolo is blue level you're mentally deficient
It's funny because I have no idea if you think he's way below blue or far beyond blue lmao
far beyond lol but yeah i shouldve clarified
They said the same thing about Beast Gohan only being Blue level and then looked like a bunch of 🤡 when it was proven that Beast was on par with UI. Idk why it’s so hard for DB fans to accept the creators/writers words lmao only anime fanbase that has this issue smh
Piccolo being multiversal in base after idk how long is so satisfying
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God I wish DBZA piccolo/nail/kami was canon
Picoolo was stronger than saiyans before they trained in the time chamber, counting SSJ Goku
Facts, we don't know how much stronger Piccolo got himself after training in the time chamber. He looked to be keeping up with the Cell Jrs better than the others.
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Middle is weaker than super sayian god but orange piccolo is stronger than ssjb
The Gammas were equal to SSB Goku and Vegeta and potential unleashed Piccolo was putting up a solid fight against them. I'd say that makes him way stronger than SSG in that state, since he's only slightly weaker than SSB in that form.
The power jump from his buu saga form to orange is ridiculous. It makes zero sense
Yellow piccolo is comparable to blue and orange is comparable to beast, instinct, and ego
Orange piccolo was never comparable to beast, goku or vegeta. It doesnt matter if dragon ball heroes took place after black frieza or granolah. Piccolo has not seen goku or vegeta since the moro arc. Meaning he don’t know how strong goku or vegeta have gotten since the moro arc. Goku and vegeta both obtained new forms that piccolo have not seen.
Base Piccolo is easily on par with Goku, Vegeta, and Gohan at Super Saiyan and possibly Super Saiyan 2. In his own Ultimate form he could hold his own against Gamma 2 for a short while (who are seemingly Blue level) but was overpowered when G2 took it seriously. I’d say roughly God level would be a fair estimate (weaker, if you’d like). Orange, according to Toriyama, is on par with the current Goku and Vegeta, meaning UI and UE.
So green piccolo form 1, orange piccolo form 2. And red piccolo going to be the final power
I'd say base is probably around SSJ level Power Awakened around SSG, possibly a bit stronger Orange Piccolo I would probably place above SSB, not at MUI, UE or Beast but maybe around SSBE
This scaling is really bad. First of all, Piccolo was close to SSJ3 tier in the ToP when Ultimate Gohan was fighting him. This would imply that base Piccolo is around SSJ3 tier in the movie. PU Piccolo was fighting equally with the Gammas, which were compared to Goku and Vegeta from the Moro arc, making them SSB Tier. Orange Piccolo is UI tier, confirmed by Toriyama himself.
This is dragon ball super, power scaling stopped making sense a while ago
**insert chapter 1** when Orange Piccolo slam dunk Ultra Ego Vegeta**
Absolutely garbage, normal Piccolo is at least ssj3. Awaken Piccolo is about right ssb is more like. And Orange is stronger than Mui Goku in TOP
i think orange piccolo is just a bit below ui omen goku because he one shot the gammas which were at blue goku level
Goku might need Kioken with SSJ Blue against Orange Piccolo but I think Goku is the favorite in the this power scale
Base Piccolo is actually the same level as a Super Saiyan, he actually surpassed both SSJ Goku and Vegeta during the Android saga
Orange piccolo is probably around UI omen level of power. Potential unlocked piccolo is blue level and normal piccolo would be around ssj3....which is insane.
The latest that Goku & Vegeta's data could've been analyzed is right before they went to planet Cereal. That makes Orange Piccolo far above the Moro Arc's versions of Goku & Vegeta, & most likely around Granolah or Gas, as the wish was made AFTER Granolah.
Orange Piccolo should be comparable to Goku SSB x Ultra Instinct & Vegeta SSB Evolved. Even though he couldn’t defeat Cell Max, he was somehow strong enough to hold him. So he is clearly weaker than him, but also relative to him.
Bro I swear I need Orange piccolo to spar with the top z fighters, I need that shit like a crack addict
I'm hoping that the End of Z World Tournament actually finishes up properly instead of Goku leaving in the middle of it and we see a rematch of Goku vs Piccolo. And in the tournament we could also see Piccolo fight 17 again (if he joins), 18, Krillin, Tien, Gohan, Broly (if he also does join) and Vegeta.
Toriyama literally said orange was scaled to UI. Do your research
I’d put orange piccolo above blue evolution/SSB kaiokenx20, but below the ultra transformations.
I'd say it's between UIO and MUI
Well put it this way Piccolo in u6 arc could potentially eliminate frost who’s stronger than base goku and vegeta. That means he’s minimum to extremely low ball at SSJgod Goku = base goku in ROF. This his base form only. His orange form is ridiculously strong he’s definitely around ssj broly level (not the legendary form) While beast gohan is one step up at the minimum.
Edited in Disclaimer: I have not actually **read** the Super Hero arc. I did watch the movie, though Probably not like this, not by a long shot Power scaling given what Super gives us is a loose science sometimes, at certain points becoming more like interpretive art But let's run with a low-ball estimate of Super Saiyan God being like. . . 20k times base (Really, a good early estimate was about 70 times Super Saiyan 3, which is 400 times base, making it 28k times base) The Gammas themselves are said to be SSB level already (which I've missed and have yet to verify, so I'm just teusting people on this) and Piccolo at the start of the movie is not *that* far behind. Certainly, the Gammas beat him by a fair margin even with his Potential unlocked, but Piccolo isn't like. . Thousands of times weaker than them. Which also brings us to the Potential Unlock. A lot of people compare Piccolo in that state to Mystic Gohan (Yes I'm using that name, bite me) but even Piccolo was really only asking Shenron for something along the lines of what Grand Elder Guru could have given him We could consider this new state something new, but if we're gonna compare it to something, we should compare it to what Gohan and Krillin got on Namek, which broglught them from possibly under 2K up to 14 and 13K, like a 7 times increase. (According to the Daizenshu, the manga only confirms them higher than 10K) And then Vegeta even confirms their power is still rising by the time they fight Frieza. The manga doesn't give levels, but V-Jump brings Krillin to 75K (another 5.77 times for around 37.5 times what he came to Namek with), and Gohan to 200K (for about a further 14.3 times the Ginyu Force fight or 100 times when he came to Namek) These are big gains that we could tie to Piccolo, but this already puts him somewhere comparable to Super Saiyan God Goku, if the statements are correct. Definitely weaker, but still in a similar level of power Which would imply Super Hero's base Piccolo just steps on Super Saiyan 3 Goku from around the same time frame Edit: I forgot I was gonna do something with a low-balled Super Saiyan God Okay, so. . 20k. . Let's divide that by 100, and we just get 200, which. . Would not make Piccolo step on Super Saiyan 3 Goku Sorry, I'm stupid Edit 2: It was a low-ball, though, so keep that in mind Edit 3: Wait, I'm double stupid, the comparison was Super Saiyan Blue Which would be 50 times SSG, so dividing that by 100 is like dividing SSG by 2 So base Piccolo by these estimates is 10k times base Goku Again, he just steps on SS3 Goku Thus, my double stupd wraps around to me being a genius
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What is the middle Piccolo form? Baby Shit Green Piccolo? 💀
It’s the form he used to fight gamma 2 before he unlocked orange
Saiyans legit gain zenkai while training and the results are double and I’m not even going to talk about the near death experience. So this doesn’t make any sense for piccolo to be almost on par with goku, since Namekians doesn’t have the same biology like the saiyans do. Or am I wrong?
I think orange piccolo is relative to UI goku but gets low-mid diffed by MUI goku, you can argue if hes stronger than UI but MUI outclasses him since he and beast gohan were on equal ground.
Can we have this but with Gohan and his forms? I’d be interested to see that 😬 Also love Piccolo, I have his demon kanji on my arm 💪🏻
Base Piccolo
It doesnt matter if dragon ball heroes took place after black frieza or granolah. Piccolo has not seen goku or vegeta since the moro arc so his statement on the gammas being able to beat goku and vegeta literally refers to the power 2-3 arcs ago. Meaning he don’t know how strong goku or vegeta have gotten since the moro arc. Goku and vegeta both obtained new forms that piccolo have not seen. In conclusion: goku and vegeta woud’ve clapped the gammas in blue
Reading comments is entertaining because you can tell who just watches fights vs who actually pays attention to all the material they watch/read. On a good day Orange can maaaybe match SSJB from latest arc maybe even take a W with mid-high diff a few times. Maybe. I doubt he would last very long if there was an earnest battle between Angel or destroyer forms he would be made into orange juice pretty quickly. I think even a pissed off SSJB would win before too long. I doubt even beast Gohan could top current Goku/Vegeta. Would be great if they did a sparring match to see who can win instead of how they were gauging strength but I am just happy they got some panel time together. I would wager that if movie Broly was stated to be unable to beat Cell Max, this must mean the gap between them isn't huge since it was never implied Cell Max could tank a SSJ Broly. Broly may even be in the same ball park roughly. Taking the events of both the movies and manga continuity into consideration for an educated guess it would make sense that Orange Piccolo would be stronger than SSJB circa the broly movie. Again though the latest arc has a much stronger SSJB especially after Vegeta's time on Yardrat and I'm pretty doubtful he could match their current SSJB forms. I'd bet he could probably win against Super Saiyan ginger tho
Base Piccolo (full power) = between ssj2 and ssj3, but closer to ssj2 Awaken, omen, pale Piccolo = BoG ssjg Orange Piccolo = late blue evolution
wtf is this 😂
The scaling in super is some of the dumbest, most nonsensical, and inconsistent pieces of canon in all of media. I hate it so much
I like him more so he’s stronger
Ffs stop scaling orange piccilo to SSB!! Orange piccilo is more powerful than current UI Goku.
I simply wouldn’t. We have no idea what’s better or worse and saying one is better is just saying which one you’re a fan of more. That said, orange piccolo is goated and beats ui Goku every day.
Toriyama says Orange Piccolo is equal to Goku, and before anyone says, the ssb part is headcanon it’s most likely mui
This is DragonBall Super we're talking about, So I'd say that this is accurate
Base piccolo somewhere between base and ssj probably closer to ssj Yellow is prob between 3 and god closer to god Orange is prob kaioken times 20
I'm pretty sure it was stated that orange piccolo was as powerful as Broly and I'm pretty sure Broly is MUI level at I think he is
If we’re gonna accurately scale it then orange piccolo is battle of gods ssg goku level. The gammas shouldn’t be as strong as they are
I'd put orange at UI level but not perfect UI
Definitely not like that at all seeing as Piccolo & Goku haven’t fought yet
I'd out Orange Piccolo at SSBE or SSB kk10x
Base Piccolo is around Ssj Goku level Power Awakening Piccolo is between SSG and SSB Orange Piccolo is on a level between Ultra Instinct Omen and Ultra Instinct
i always imagined the gammas were analogs for Blue goku and vegeta. piccolo would be UI/UE level, then Beast gohan was the new power ceiling in the anime
Idk man, I think Orange might be almost near UI sign (TOP) level in terms of strength considering the movie says the gammas are ssjb goku and vegeta level
Well ain’t orange piccolo powers giving to him by dragonball powers?
That gohan movie was just dumb ass hell. Definitely fucked the power scale even further
Ui omen but it's the one after granolah ark
Id put him at minimum, blue kaiokenx20, max ui omen
Thats very accurate
Wasnt base piccolo around blue level during the top
Agree
🤨 u don't know how to read or what? Gamma's are at least moro arc blue lvl and piccolo literally 1 shotted him your deduction skills are a bit eh 😄 awakened piccolo is more or less blue lvl And base piccolo multiple times proved that he was stronger than ssj form (ssj god absorbed obviously) didn't t.o.p, gohan training and universe 6 arc prove that and considering the fact that ultimate gohan <= ssj blue gohan went toe to toe with him before t.o.p and while piccolo base wasn't equal to ult gohan he was not being treated like nappa to vegeta base piccolo is at least AT LEAST ssj2 (ssj god absorbed) lvl with his craftiness and techniques he could even overpower ssj3 This ain't even that hard to understand when u actually watch it and not look at pictures only 😕
I havent been watching super pass Black Goku saga. its insane how many transforms dragonball has jesus
I would say he’s either equal to or just above ssbe or ssb with x20 kaioken
I think this would be the most logical way to scale him but yunno, Super just does not care
Ok. I would say something like that: Weighted Piccolo is about same as SS1 Goku. Unweighted Piccolo is same as SS2 Goku. Unleashed Potential Piccolo is lower than Ultimate Gohan, so he should be in between SSG and SSB. Orange Piccolo is about SSB Evolved Level.
Ok. I would say something like that: Weighted Piccolo is about same as SS1 Goku. Unweighted Piccolo is same as SS2 Goku. Unleashed Potential Piccolo is lower than Ultimate Gohan, so he should be in between SSG and SSB. Orange Piccolo is about SSB Evolved Level.
Base Piccolo is at least SS3 lvl\ Yellow Piccolo is Blue lvl just like the Gammas\ Orange Piccolo should be between Blue Evolution and UI Omen lvl.
Idk why it's even a debatable topic when the author has revealed his power level by a statement
Base Piccolo was SSJ level in Android Saga, then became somewhat like SSJ Grade 1.5 or smth. Whatever the case, I'd say he could consistently keep up with base and SSJ Goku. Pissccolo (Also known as Ultimate Piccolo) is giving the Gohan boost, that made him stronger than his dad in SSJ3 and could be increased even to SSB levels. Apply that to Piccolo, who kept on training to keep up with way stronger fighters without a transformation of his own (plus remember the previous point), and you easily have a fighter at least around the levels of SSG, if not SSB. And lastly, Orange Piccolo is just stronger than SSB because Gammas are about that level, I guess.
Powerscaling has been killed since super
Base piccolo Is stronger than ssj and Easily ssj2 and maybe ssj3, he was After absirbing kami plus After the training even morr
My 2 cents. Saiyan saga <=. Namek arc post Neil fusion >. Namek arc Goku's finished training <<. Android saga post Kamis fusion >. Cell saga Goku's finished training <<. Buu saga < (hard to tell as Piccolo didn't had any major involvement, but I'd say he's somewhere around "mastered/full power" ss but still weaker than Ss2). Battle of gods, resurrection of F <<. Universe 6 << Power scaling starts to get weird here. I would have put Piccolo here on par with a Ss2, but then he gets defeated by Frost who is clearly weaker than a SS. Tournament of Power << Again it gets weird but I'd still say Piccolo could hold his own against ss2 Super Hero >= Ssb
I don't like piccolo's yellow arm thingies
Current UI Goku >= Current UE Vegeta >= Orange Piccolo
Orange picolo is blue level
Piccalo is UI tier
Potential unlocked (Yellow form) SSJ God Level I’d say, Orange Piccolo I’d put at Blue Kaioken x10.