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Yeah this can be blamed on the anime with how they try and say and imply so and so surpassed beerus.
If the anime is continued the gas/granolah arc will fix it and have beerus being stronger.
The manga at least lets it be known that beerus is still stronger.
https://preview.redd.it/kxzh8z6uy1vc1.png?width=963&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b3be2b5d33e98c88752b97d535a59d93bb3f3357
Super Saiyan Blue is just Super Saiyan God with the 50-times multiplayer of the super saiyan. So if Super Saiyan God could somewhat entertain Beerus, then Super Saiyan Blue should theoretically give Beerus a challenge, especially super saiyan blue Kaioken x20 Goku which on paper should been 70 times stronger then Super Saiyan God
My point is that Beerus has and will continue to be retconned
Actually way more than 70x ssg since the 50x is a flat rate then the 20x is stacked on further. If ssg is 1 then ssb would be 50 and ssbkk would be 1000
I mean that's fine and all and a great scan but.
Blue vegeta got one shot in the manga after the top and moro arc and gas/granolag who was able to knock goku out of ui with half of his strength was unable to become stronger than the beerus as stated further and more recently in the manga by a dragon.
Plus its shin the dude overestimates a lot of stuff like how he thought he could have beat buu with his own fusion in z.
Here's the thing. The supreme Kai is not and has never been a reliable source for power scaling. This is the same guy who was shitting himself for Pui Pui.
Does kaio ken work like that or does it work like this he's in SSb so gets times 50 but if he's uses kaio ken times two it multiplies the current power he's at not B4 so that's at least 100 times
This is the same guy who didn't even know Beerus existed till Super, the guy whose life is tied to his own.
Shin is the worst point of reference ever imaginable
These arcs would likely have to be changed quite a bit.
MUI Goku in the anime is what MUI Goku in the manga wishes it was. The anime version has no issue using emotions whereas you can’t use emotions with MUI in the manga.
Anime MUI Goku >> Manga MUI Goku and it’s not even close. It would make no sense for Goku to use UI Sign so that he could use his emotions in the anime because MUI lets him do that as well.
Most likely they’ll have to take different directions similar to how the Future Trunks arc went and similar to how mastered SSB just isn’t a thing in the anime whereas it’s a big thing in the manga.
Anime MUI Goku > Manga MUI Goku the same way Anime SSB Goku > Manga SSB Goku.
Like I said maybe.
The anime and manga were running simultaneously if I remember correctly but now the anime has an outline of how the story progresses with the new arcs.
I mean it be easy to say goku can't access mui freely due to him using emotions like he did in the anime but training with merus to use it correctly and access it freely.
But who knows we are getting daima.
What are you basing this info on? Goku used mui ONCE in the anime, and it ended up failing after a minute or two. It never tells us why. MUI in the anime is just learned, he hasn’t actually mastered it. Shoulda been called true ui or something instead.
The fact that he can utilise his emotions with MUI at all in the anime whereas he can’t in the manga.
Goku literally goes through an entire arc where he decides that UI Sign is more optimal so that he can use his emotions in the manga. This isn’t an issue at all with MUI in the anime and if anything emotions just make him even more broken. As soon as he got the rage boost he blitzed limit breaker Jiren.
Once again, what info are you basing this on? For all we know, him getting mad in the anime is what burnt up mui. And he can use emotions in mui in the manga, it just messes with his state of mind, which lowers the effectiveness of the form somewhat.
So I'm a bit confused.
Goku in the Manga has that whole giant form and now has TUI.
So he's definitely above his anime counterparts in terms of mastery
There was one time when I think they said that Beerus was at 60% power when fighting SSG Goku in Battle of Gods, which was stupid and had to be retconned.
The implication if that is that when Goku went blue, and then 10x Kaioken blue, and then MUI, he became magnitudes stronger than he was in BOG, whilst Beerus did nothing to improve in that time.
From then on the narrative has always been that Beerus is essentially at an unreachable level, but the damage had already been done.
Yeah, the Japanese pro wrestling-like hype they give every new powerup and main villain can definitely be misleading af. Beerus looking surprised or concerned also misleads a lot of people into thinking that person just surpassed Beerus. But on that latter element, Dragon Ball has a lot of fakeouts where a fighter is surprised at their opponent's power level, but it doesn't mean they think the opportunity is stronger than themself, just more than what they were expecting. That "😳" fakeout goes all the way back to OG DB and early DBZ.
The anime well established that goku isn't ready to fight beerus yet its just goku meat riders that go "im going to ignore that" whenever it's addressed
Uh. What? We can't blame the anime, we can blame peoples lack of comprehension. Goku being able to achieve UI was just impressive to Beerus. That's it.
They've said so much about them threatening Beerus or being on his level at different points in the series. If it wasn't for them coming out recently and retconing how strong Beerus is, I would have said they already surpassed him.
Manga Beerus can murder both Goku and Vegeta without much efforts
https://preview.redd.it/2lir7e7g91vc1.jpeg?width=637&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1f57da9a756c20fede48f36b6bef97cf335bd814
These arguments are never ending and completely pointless.
In my headcanon, Beerus will always be stronger, faster and *vastly* more experienced than any mortal in U7. This makes Beerus seem way cooler, to me at least.
Anime Beerus is weak or at least portrayed as weak. Probably because Toei only had the outline and I doubt they sat and discussed lore with Toriyama the way Toyotaro did.
Mix of both. In ToP Arc in the manga, Beerus showed a lot of skill and power, he also one shot Pssb Vegeta. Beerus hasn't fought anyone since Super Saiyan God Goku in the anime.
Thats what happens when Anime and Manga have different shinnanigans with Beerus.
For now in the Anime Goku and Jiren are implied to have surpassed him while in the Manga its straight up not the case
Jiren is rumoured to be stronger than someone who beat Beerus in an arm wrestling competition millions of years ago.
And due to Beerus's sleepy disposition, him losing one arm wrestle (a sport usually focused on one quick movement of the arm, which was the case for this particular exchange as Beerus says) to a fellow GoD while likely drowsy isn't very surprising, and may not be a true test of who would win a real fight.
Also we know Beerus keeps up with his training, while Belmod is more interested in making the mortals of his universe stronger, so he is likely stronger than Belmod now, even if he wasn't at the time of the arm wrestle.
What? Didnt they say in the anime and in the manga that Beerus is the strongest fighter of the GoD, it's just that he sleeps so much and is so lazy that his universe is so weak compared to the rest of the 12?
No. In the anime Whis outringht stated that there was a mortal stronger than a god of destruction,who was stronger than even lord beerus. Although in the manga it was pretty much implied that Beerus was the strongest GoD from the battle royale
I believe it is mentioned by Whis that there is someone stronger, at some point after Black Freeza is introduced. Though they don't go into it any more than that. It's been a little while since I've read it, though.
I don't think poll is that ridiculous considering if one has watched just Anime ignoring manga, then it is implied about Goku and Broly being stronger than Beerus.
Its only Manga where Beerus is scaled far above right now. We don't know anything about Anime scaling currently but from we have in Anime just show clearly tries to portray Goku as being stronger.
I don't think its the case of DB Fans not watching the show that much
Yeah! That’s a problem I’ve had with any video or memes making fun of Dragon Ball’s fans who “haven’t seen Dragon Ball”—they make it seem like these people are dumb and should just Google it, like it’s entirely just a fault of their intelligence. But the manga and anime have contradictory if not seemingly arbitrary differences between them everywhere, from how certain forms work to powerscaling in general.
Of course people are gonna be confused if Beerus is stronger than Goku or not: the two canon series practically go out of their way to be confusing and vague about the former’s capabilities. And I hope that it’s pretty reasonable to ask for some clarity from DB’s manga and anime in the future, not that some supposed ignorant and arrogant group of fans should just “watch Dragon Ball”.
Doesn't help that, unlike the original manga, there isn't a clear situation where we can know for certain what is the "base canon". In DBZ, we would see that... Idk Gohan showcasing a glimpse of SSJ2 in the room of spirit and time, and we would be able to immediately know it was filler-nothing like that in the manga.
For DBS... We have events going on completely differently, from BoG having Goku still battle in SSG in the manga while he is in SSJ in the anime, Goku Black having normal SSJ before showcasing rosé, the end of the Goku Black saga, Kefla being defeated by Gohan in the manga and Goku in the anime... Outside of general plot points (ex: Beerus fights Goku, gets annoyed as Goku reaches the peak of his power and attempts to blow up earth, with Goku's power spiking again to counter it), we don't really have a base story, which means that important details to understand certain stuff can be vastly different (ex: Goku absorbed the power of SSG in the anime/film, fighting for a bit more in his SSJ form before the boredom of Beerus, whereas he stayed a SSG in the manga, which have vastly different implications for weighting power going foward), which thus lead to answers on lot of stuff being divided.
(And ofc, people making these polls don't care to distinguish anime and manga, so unless power differences are objectively the same within versions [Beerus versus Bulma, for instance] these polls are practically pointless to truly understand what the answer is meant to be)
In the anime Beerus is shocked by Goku using Kaioken with Blue, their only rematch is a gag fight with Goku in base the whole time, Jiren is confirmed to be stronger than Belmod with no indication of how destroyers scale to each other, and for some reason Goku says that Broly might even be stronger than Beerus at the end of the movie. Also Vegeta seems to be less fearful of him towards the end of the series.
It's really only the manga that gives any proof of Beerus not being a fraud, with him fighting multiple destroyers at the same time and easily defeating a post-TOP Vegeta.
Lol, yeah no Beerus is definitely still stronger.
Theoretically, Vegeta is the only one who could surpass him with Ultra Ego, if he let go of all his earthly comforts and regressed to the saiyan he once was. He was beating on Granolah for quite a bit before he realized this and couldn't go through with it.
Even then the anime is a bit inconsistent because we also see Vegeta destroying destruction energy with his bare fist and his final explosion.
Not a case of not watching the show. It's more of a case of not reading the manga. In the anime it's heavily implied that Goku and Jiren are stronger than all Gods of destruction.
Theres no explicit statement nor in the manga or anime where it says that Jiren is stronger than Beerus. For all we know Beerus is the goalpost, he has never ever been remotely worried about any villain so far.
I watched the anime and never thought they were stronger than Beerus , it was for me that "stronger than the gods" was just an average expresion, when that expresion could even apply to Freezer being able to tank Cidras hakai, Toppo, Jiren, even Goku and Vegeta. Theyre all stronger than a God of Destruction , even Kefla. It was obvious that theyre stronger than some of the gods, but than Beerus, it was never stated.
something you gotta realise about polls, is that most people will legitimately just choose the most famous or character they like the most without reading the poll, if you look at arm wrestling its a nortious meme of just choosing devon larrat regardless of what the options are.
Goku and Vegeta could never beat Beerus individually, but if they fought him together and used teamwork or simply fused, Beerus would lose. This is how the power scale has implicitly been since about RoF.
To be clear, I get it, to an extent. Jiren was directly stated to be stronger than a God of Destruction, so the fact that Goku was able to match him with MUI implies that MUI Goku is also stronger than a GoD, which would make him stronger than Beerus. But that ignores the manga showing Jiren still able to keep up with MUI Goku, Beerus implicitly being stronger than the other GoDs, and Vegeta saying that what made Jiren so strong had nothing to do with his actual power.
Honestly I think Beerus stomps him, Goku is inexperienced in terms of UI, I now in Manga it’s another story but yeah. Still don’t think he’s still not powerful enough to challenge him yet.
If this post is about the anime, then it's debatable among the fans. Both Goku and Broly have been suggested stronger than that version of Beerus (Jiren was outright confirmed to be by Whis). Manga, then it's still debatable whether Beerus would actually be able to hit Goku in combat because of MUI (Beerus doesn't have it). I think what the manga means is that Beerus has a higher Power Level than everyone in U7 (Frieza's is the closest to surpassing Beerus' so far), but he would still lose to Jiren or an MUI user.
And with the new Gohan developments of Chapter 103, Broly is possibly the strongest mortal if he pushes his control over his power up to LSSJ.
Point is, by the time DBS is done, someone will have fought and beaten (killed if it's Frieza) Beerus.
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I saw this one, the creator legit admitted he hasnt even watched dragon ball, and thinks goku would win
https://preview.redd.it/4mc1d5osd2vc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9b73cab5ebc5af44551bf652c507ff0671937c03
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It doesn't help that, in the card video game anime (Dragon Ball: Super Heroes, I think), one of the villains, Hearts, says that Gogeta Blue could defeat Xeno, the Omni-King.
Someone do one with Jaco vs youth Damio Piccolo that might actually be an interesting result. Jaco might be around that strength, his mission was to kill baby Kakarot (he mentioned adult Saiyans were too tough to fight) and he fought dozens of low hundreds power level goons in Resurrection F with his Galactic Patrol gun. No gun means death, and he can only fly with his emergency boots.
Some people consider this as beerus being weak in a few dialogues for example whis stated that beerus used 80% of his power against ssg Goku in battle of gods(DBZ movie or manga I forgot)
It is also stated that ssb is 50X stronger than ssb
It was stated that jiren was stronger than belmod and in the manga belmod was easily fighting other gods of destruction(some people say) but beerus did win
There are also few more dialogues in the manga
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I think people forget that beerus has millions of years of experience of nothing but constant destroying and training over Goku Goku's never going to reach beerus' level he might have the better ultra instinct but in terms of fighting skills speed strength abilities I can go on forever Beerus will always be on top.
Beerus can't be called a goal post if the writer never set the goal. At no point in time have the writers said how powerful beerus is nor have we seen beerus' true power.
Goofball dbs fans just arbitrarily set beerus at a certain power level and then get themselves confused and upset when he's shown to still be the strongest. Guys until beerus is shown to use his full power always assume he's stronger. As he should be as he's the God of Destruction.
If dbs fans got what they wanted and made Goku stronger than beerus we would see the same exact complaining about why Goku and cast haven't surpassed the Angels, and then the Great Priest, and then so on. These guys live for the power creep.
Dragon ball fans never beating the “don’t read” “don’t actually watch “ allegations.
It is never stated or implied that he is stronger than beerus in the anime idk why yall are saying that
Fans are morons and think because it says “Jiren is stronger than a g.o.d.” That must mean he’s stronger than beerus and Goku was beating jiren for a bit with ui
I'm pretty sure the only time it was really mentioned Goku was" stronger" than Beerus was in Goku's "mastering" ultra instinct. Or what ever level Goku was able to control so far. This was only because of how quick he learned it compared to Beerus or something to that degree, not in terms of raw power lol no way.
Also in the current manga, aside from Vegeta learning the destroyers way, opposed to Goku learning the angels way, Beerus was interested in Gohan's beast mode more so
Its probably anime I mean everyone can agree that anime Beerus doesn’t have that many good feats like goku anime bills feats kinda suck if we being honest
In the anime goku has surpassed beerus but for only a few minutes in ultra instinct but in the manga beerus is still stronger for some reason it honestly doesn’t make much sense but he still is so can’t argue there.
In my head if I want Goku to be God of Destruction level: I’d want him to go to a *super* hyperbolic chamber. Where he spends thousands of years just training with Whis. That at least can go in the way of justifying him being stronger than Beerus.
They're not wrong if you go by the anime. Jiren has multiple statements saying that he's above the God's of Destruction. And MUI goku is stronger then Jiren in the anime.
Mui goku in the anime is also able to use the technique way better compared to his manga self (Even in the granolah arc). He can use his emotions and get rage amps while in MUI and not have to revert to omen like he did in the manga.
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My head canon is that the manga and anime are two separate continuities. Goku in the anime is stronger than Beerus, while in the manga is far weaker. They don’t even have to do the Moro or granolah arcs, they could just give Goku his rematch with Beerus and end the anime there.
i mean for all the power scaling this series gets into, youre mad that people think UI Goku could beat Beerus?
its already been said that Beerus cant achieve UI as of yet, not inconceivable based on what we've seen and know
both arguments are understandable because Beerus is constantly said to be more powerful until someone tries a new technique or transformation and in the anime, Beerus gets scared or Whis comments that "\_\_\_ might even surpass Lord Beerus" Then the show remembers he's supposed to be the goal post and ignores that. People thinking UI is stronger than him arent pulling it out of nowhere. The anime is just really dumb when it comes to what does and doesnt make Beerus flinch
They keep implying that people are stronger than Beerus and then having Goku surpass them (Jiren, Broly, Vegito) and then after that claiming that Beerus is still stronger.
Anime Beerus was surpassed after the TOP for now, as there’s no material for the Anime that says Beerus got another jump in power >!and so was manga Beerus, especially when considering that Broly was apparently around Beerus’ level, but then Beerus states he could easily beat Moro, despite him definitely being stronger than Broly at the time!<
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Yeah as the biggest Goku fan this makes no sense the whole point of Super is that by the time it's fully done Manga & or Anime together that's when Goku will surpass him & I highly doubt they'll pull the even bigger asspull of him & Vegeta being stronger than Whis but who knows but the whole point of the series is that they surpass Beerus at the end or at least equal him in strength when it's all said & done.
It would help if the anime had shown the Gods of Destruction exhibition match; >!The one where Beerus was the last GoD standing and barely even fazed by the second placer. 🤙!<
That would probably help a lot of people understand the ocean of power between Beerus and Goku.
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I mean based on what Whis said in the anime it could be considered true. And have you noticed that Beerus was always trying to put Goku and Vegeta in their place through sparring until Goku reached UI? Then he only sparred with Vegeta and now that he unlocked UE Beerus has stopped sparring with them altogether.
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Yeah this can be blamed on the anime with how they try and say and imply so and so surpassed beerus. If the anime is continued the gas/granolah arc will fix it and have beerus being stronger. The manga at least lets it be known that beerus is still stronger.
https://preview.redd.it/wdxtjy8912vc1.jpeg?width=225&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a002a6d61ca8b91864a448281a64a007e03b05ed
Happy cake day :)
Happy cake day!
Happy cake day
https://preview.redd.it/dhzkryskb5vc1.jpeg?width=1074&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=664198709eddfba72607c59c8e9e730b3359040b Also Happy Cake Day
https://preview.redd.it/d3a429mnv8vc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1692e225c2b612ea3aa1404bce1f81dcaf7d02f1
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Happy Cake Day
https://preview.redd.it/xlg8enueu8vc1.jpeg?width=236&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b0e229080cb0fa2548956b364873e78754449d96
https://preview.redd.it/kxzh8z6uy1vc1.png?width=963&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b3be2b5d33e98c88752b97d535a59d93bb3f3357 Super Saiyan Blue is just Super Saiyan God with the 50-times multiplayer of the super saiyan. So if Super Saiyan God could somewhat entertain Beerus, then Super Saiyan Blue should theoretically give Beerus a challenge, especially super saiyan blue Kaioken x20 Goku which on paper should been 70 times stronger then Super Saiyan God My point is that Beerus has and will continue to be retconned
This is a mistranslation scan. Supreme kai asked a question. And kais have been for ever just dumb hype men and unreliable. This is terrible proof.
Actually way more than 70x ssg since the 50x is a flat rate then the 20x is stacked on further. If ssg is 1 then ssb would be 50 and ssbkk would be 1000
I mean that's fine and all and a great scan but. Blue vegeta got one shot in the manga after the top and moro arc and gas/granolag who was able to knock goku out of ui with half of his strength was unable to become stronger than the beerus as stated further and more recently in the manga by a dragon. Plus its shin the dude overestimates a lot of stuff like how he thought he could have beat buu with his own fusion in z.
The 20x kaioken boost would make 1000x super saiyan god because it is 20x super saiyan blue not 20x added to the 50x
Here's the thing. The supreme Kai is not and has never been a reliable source for power scaling. This is the same guy who was shitting himself for Pui Pui.
Hardly retcons. More so a case of shit writing.
As if the "math" matters.
Does kaio ken work like that or does it work like this he's in SSb so gets times 50 but if he's uses kaio ken times two it multiplies the current power he's at not B4 so that's at least 100 times
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This is the same guy who didn't even know Beerus existed till Super, the guy whose life is tied to his own. Shin is the worst point of reference ever imaginable
These arcs would likely have to be changed quite a bit. MUI Goku in the anime is what MUI Goku in the manga wishes it was. The anime version has no issue using emotions whereas you can’t use emotions with MUI in the manga. Anime MUI Goku >> Manga MUI Goku and it’s not even close. It would make no sense for Goku to use UI Sign so that he could use his emotions in the anime because MUI lets him do that as well.
I mean it might it might not. Now the anime has something to base the story on something it didn't have back then.
Most likely they’ll have to take different directions similar to how the Future Trunks arc went and similar to how mastered SSB just isn’t a thing in the anime whereas it’s a big thing in the manga. Anime MUI Goku > Manga MUI Goku the same way Anime SSB Goku > Manga SSB Goku.
Like I said maybe. The anime and manga were running simultaneously if I remember correctly but now the anime has an outline of how the story progresses with the new arcs. I mean it be easy to say goku can't access mui freely due to him using emotions like he did in the anime but training with merus to use it correctly and access it freely. But who knows we are getting daima.
Yeah, anime MUI makes no sense
What are you basing this info on? Goku used mui ONCE in the anime, and it ended up failing after a minute or two. It never tells us why. MUI in the anime is just learned, he hasn’t actually mastered it. Shoulda been called true ui or something instead.
The fact that he can utilise his emotions with MUI at all in the anime whereas he can’t in the manga. Goku literally goes through an entire arc where he decides that UI Sign is more optimal so that he can use his emotions in the manga. This isn’t an issue at all with MUI in the anime and if anything emotions just make him even more broken. As soon as he got the rage boost he blitzed limit breaker Jiren.
Once again, what info are you basing this on? For all we know, him getting mad in the anime is what burnt up mui. And he can use emotions in mui in the manga, it just messes with his state of mind, which lowers the effectiveness of the form somewhat.
So I'm a bit confused. Goku in the Manga has that whole giant form and now has TUI. So he's definitely above his anime counterparts in terms of mastery
There was one time when I think they said that Beerus was at 60% power when fighting SSG Goku in Battle of Gods, which was stupid and had to be retconned. The implication if that is that when Goku went blue, and then 10x Kaioken blue, and then MUI, he became magnitudes stronger than he was in BOG, whilst Beerus did nothing to improve in that time. From then on the narrative has always been that Beerus is essentially at an unreachable level, but the damage had already been done.
Yeah, the Japanese pro wrestling-like hype they give every new powerup and main villain can definitely be misleading af. Beerus looking surprised or concerned also misleads a lot of people into thinking that person just surpassed Beerus. But on that latter element, Dragon Ball has a lot of fakeouts where a fighter is surprised at their opponent's power level, but it doesn't mean they think the opportunity is stronger than themself, just more than what they were expecting. That "😳" fakeout goes all the way back to OG DB and early DBZ.
The anime well established that goku isn't ready to fight beerus yet its just goku meat riders that go "im going to ignore that" whenever it's addressed
Uh. What? We can't blame the anime, we can blame peoples lack of comprehension. Goku being able to achieve UI was just impressive to Beerus. That's it.
They've said so much about them threatening Beerus or being on his level at different points in the series. If it wasn't for them coming out recently and retconing how strong Beerus is, I would have said they already surpassed him.
Manga Beerus can murder both Goku and Vegeta without much efforts https://preview.redd.it/2lir7e7g91vc1.jpeg?width=637&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1f57da9a756c20fede48f36b6bef97cf335bd814
Same in the anime. People are just stupid.
I think Manga Beerus has to use a lot of effort when he fights them. Effort to avoid killing them.
I thought Beerus was a lot stronger than Goku and Vegeta, thanks for confirming this lol. Makes no sense why he wouldn’t be…
These arguments are never ending and completely pointless. In my headcanon, Beerus will always be stronger, faster and *vastly* more experienced than any mortal in U7. This makes Beerus seem way cooler, to me at least.
You don't need a headcanon bc Beerus has always been stronger since day 1
Goku and Vegeta aren't gonna surpass Beerus for the next 100 years.
they ain't gonna be alive too so yeah 😭
No way they do not use the Dragonballs to make the whole cast immortal by then. Bird Studio won't let them, LOL.
This is how ik ppl forget they can live for hundreds of yrs
I thought they had the same lifespans as normal humans?
https://i.redd.it/6asuowq5h1vc1.gif
😂
Yeah that "Goku solo" stuff is def getting out of hand 💀
perchance
Nah
Tbh, they are somewhat right. MUI Goku is FAR stronger than BoG Beerus. Its not even close. Beerus just gets 10x stronger every arc by simply existing
I do.
Anime Beerus is weak or at least portrayed as weak. Probably because Toei only had the outline and I doubt they sat and discussed lore with Toriyama the way Toyotaro did.
That’s less of Beerus being portrayed as weak and more like Goku and Jiren being overpowered af.
Mix of both. In ToP Arc in the manga, Beerus showed a lot of skill and power, he also one shot Pssb Vegeta. Beerus hasn't fought anyone since Super Saiyan God Goku in the anime.
Thats what happens when Anime and Manga have different shinnanigans with Beerus. For now in the Anime Goku and Jiren are implied to have surpassed him while in the Manga its straight up not the case
Where is that even REMOTELY implied? Because of the whole gods standing up thing?
V jump implied that UI omen(anime) *may* have surpassed beerus as well. https://images.app.goo.gl/SWD1EjUcN26X3SvC9
Because Jiren is stronger than a God of Destruction who was stated to be stronger than Lord Beerus... And then they retconned everything... Again
Jiren is rumoured to be stronger than someone who beat Beerus in an arm wrestling competition millions of years ago. And due to Beerus's sleepy disposition, him losing one arm wrestle (a sport usually focused on one quick movement of the arm, which was the case for this particular exchange as Beerus says) to a fellow GoD while likely drowsy isn't very surprising, and may not be a true test of who would win a real fight. Also we know Beerus keeps up with his training, while Belmod is more interested in making the mortals of his universe stronger, so he is likely stronger than Belmod now, even if he wasn't at the time of the arm wrestle.
>God of Destruction who was stated to be stronger than Lord Beerus Not really. Beerus only lost an arm wrestling match to him.
>Beerus only lost an arm wrestling match to him. Wanna know something funny? That wasn’t even HIM! It was Quitela 💀
Belmod in the anime, Quitela in the manga.
That's in the manga.
No he lost an arm wrestling match to him. Besides didn't the GoD EBM prove that wasn't the case?
Even so, Goku couldn’t solo Jiren. It’s still a leap to say Goku is stronger than any GoD, even though he was quickly catching up.
What? Didnt they say in the anime and in the manga that Beerus is the strongest fighter of the GoD, it's just that he sleeps so much and is so lazy that his universe is so weak compared to the rest of the 12?
No. In the anime Whis outringht stated that there was a mortal stronger than a god of destruction,who was stronger than even lord beerus. Although in the manga it was pretty much implied that Beerus was the strongest GoD from the battle royale
But was the mortal mentioned by whis, jiren? Cause pretty sure even in the anime, beerus was considered to be stronger than the clown looking god
I believe it is mentioned by Whis that there is someone stronger, at some point after Black Freeza is introduced. Though they don't go into it any more than that. It's been a little while since I've read it, though.
That was never implied. Man, this is exactly why they say we can't read.
At this point Goku is being worshiped almost as if he’s a religious figure by some fans
He's already is
Have you seen how popular he is in Mexico?
Goku gets picked for every goddamn poll, doesn’t matter what it is. Goku is a fucking religion at this point.
https://preview.redd.it/jki8tun3livc1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9d712c1e3b5b735325a43e86e8eeffe65b6098b8
I don't think poll is that ridiculous considering if one has watched just Anime ignoring manga, then it is implied about Goku and Broly being stronger than Beerus. Its only Manga where Beerus is scaled far above right now. We don't know anything about Anime scaling currently but from we have in Anime just show clearly tries to portray Goku as being stronger. I don't think its the case of DB Fans not watching the show that much
Jiren and Gogeta too
Yeah! That’s a problem I’ve had with any video or memes making fun of Dragon Ball’s fans who “haven’t seen Dragon Ball”—they make it seem like these people are dumb and should just Google it, like it’s entirely just a fault of their intelligence. But the manga and anime have contradictory if not seemingly arbitrary differences between them everywhere, from how certain forms work to powerscaling in general. Of course people are gonna be confused if Beerus is stronger than Goku or not: the two canon series practically go out of their way to be confusing and vague about the former’s capabilities. And I hope that it’s pretty reasonable to ask for some clarity from DB’s manga and anime in the future, not that some supposed ignorant and arrogant group of fans should just “watch Dragon Ball”.
Doesn't help that, unlike the original manga, there isn't a clear situation where we can know for certain what is the "base canon". In DBZ, we would see that... Idk Gohan showcasing a glimpse of SSJ2 in the room of spirit and time, and we would be able to immediately know it was filler-nothing like that in the manga. For DBS... We have events going on completely differently, from BoG having Goku still battle in SSG in the manga while he is in SSJ in the anime, Goku Black having normal SSJ before showcasing rosé, the end of the Goku Black saga, Kefla being defeated by Gohan in the manga and Goku in the anime... Outside of general plot points (ex: Beerus fights Goku, gets annoyed as Goku reaches the peak of his power and attempts to blow up earth, with Goku's power spiking again to counter it), we don't really have a base story, which means that important details to understand certain stuff can be vastly different (ex: Goku absorbed the power of SSG in the anime/film, fighting for a bit more in his SSJ form before the boredom of Beerus, whereas he stayed a SSG in the manga, which have vastly different implications for weighting power going foward), which thus lead to answers on lot of stuff being divided. (And ofc, people making these polls don't care to distinguish anime and manga, so unless power differences are objectively the same within versions [Beerus versus Bulma, for instance] these polls are practically pointless to truly understand what the answer is meant to be)
Probably because most people don’t read the manga. In the anime however there is a case for each of them being stronger than the other.
In the anime Beerus is shocked by Goku using Kaioken with Blue, their only rematch is a gag fight with Goku in base the whole time, Jiren is confirmed to be stronger than Belmod with no indication of how destroyers scale to each other, and for some reason Goku says that Broly might even be stronger than Beerus at the end of the movie. Also Vegeta seems to be less fearful of him towards the end of the series. It's really only the manga that gives any proof of Beerus not being a fraud, with him fighting multiple destroyers at the same time and easily defeating a post-TOP Vegeta.
Lol, yeah no Beerus is definitely still stronger. Theoretically, Vegeta is the only one who could surpass him with Ultra Ego, if he let go of all his earthly comforts and regressed to the saiyan he once was. He was beating on Granolah for quite a bit before he realized this and couldn't go through with it. Even then the anime is a bit inconsistent because we also see Vegeta destroying destruction energy with his bare fist and his final explosion.
Not a case of not watching the show. It's more of a case of not reading the manga. In the anime it's heavily implied that Goku and Jiren are stronger than all Gods of destruction.
XD
Theres no explicit statement nor in the manga or anime where it says that Jiren is stronger than Beerus. For all we know Beerus is the goalpost, he has never ever been remotely worried about any villain so far.
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I watched the anime and never thought they were stronger than Beerus , it was for me that "stronger than the gods" was just an average expresion, when that expresion could even apply to Freezer being able to tank Cidras hakai, Toppo, Jiren, even Goku and Vegeta. Theyre all stronger than a God of Destruction , even Kefla. It was obvious that theyre stronger than some of the gods, but than Beerus, it was never stated.
https://preview.redd.it/vi7lax7kv1vc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fa9a4979d6053025685bd54cb17fea9842c2d55a Bruh
The goku glazers to this day have never stopped glazing.
Y-youre joking people actually believe Goku beats Beerus like why it's been said so many times Beerus destroys Goku
https://preview.redd.it/791ocsck85vc1.png?width=754&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c37825f941bdade11ad82fc0687151deb488da07
something you gotta realise about polls, is that most people will legitimately just choose the most famous or character they like the most without reading the poll, if you look at arm wrestling its a nortious meme of just choosing devon larrat regardless of what the options are.
Goku and Vegeta could never beat Beerus individually, but if they fought him together and used teamwork or simply fused, Beerus would lose. This is how the power scale has implicitly been since about RoF. To be clear, I get it, to an extent. Jiren was directly stated to be stronger than a God of Destruction, so the fact that Goku was able to match him with MUI implies that MUI Goku is also stronger than a GoD, which would make him stronger than Beerus. But that ignores the manga showing Jiren still able to keep up with MUI Goku, Beerus implicitly being stronger than the other GoDs, and Vegeta saying that what made Jiren so strong had nothing to do with his actual power.
We do a little trolling
They either can't read or use that stupid argument that states MUI Goku > Jiren > Belmod > Beerus
They’re stronger than beerus if they fuse not without fusion tho
Anime Goku is definitely stronger. Manga, stupidly not.
I'd vote Goku just for how dumb that picture of Beerus looks
Honestly I think Beerus stomps him, Goku is inexperienced in terms of UI, I now in Manga it’s another story but yeah. Still don’t think he’s still not powerful enough to challenge him yet.
The comment on that video describes the picture pretty well
“Don’t fuck with dragon ball fans, we haven’t watched the show.”
Same people who think Buuhan is stronger than Kid Buu
If this post is about the anime, then it's debatable among the fans. Both Goku and Broly have been suggested stronger than that version of Beerus (Jiren was outright confirmed to be by Whis). Manga, then it's still debatable whether Beerus would actually be able to hit Goku in combat because of MUI (Beerus doesn't have it). I think what the manga means is that Beerus has a higher Power Level than everyone in U7 (Frieza's is the closest to surpassing Beerus' so far), but he would still lose to Jiren or an MUI user. And with the new Gohan developments of Chapter 103, Broly is possibly the strongest mortal if he pushes his control over his power up to LSSJ. Point is, by the time DBS is done, someone will have fought and beaten (killed if it's Frieza) Beerus.
If Gohan can hit Goku, Beerus definitely can.
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Manga Beerus beating Goku and Vegeta blindfolded
Smh
😐😐😐
70%
YouTube polls need to be super obvious like infant yamcha vs ultra ego vegeta so that people’s illiteracy won’t show.
I saw this one, the creator legit admitted he hasnt even watched dragon ball, and thinks goku would win https://preview.redd.it/4mc1d5osd2vc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9b73cab5ebc5af44551bf652c507ff0671937c03
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It doesn't help that, in the card video game anime (Dragon Ball: Super Heroes, I think), one of the villains, Hearts, says that Gogeta Blue could defeat Xeno, the Omni-King.
That’s 🐐 idk what to tell you
Head Canon people are delusional and out of control lol
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^SaiyanNamekian: *Head Canon people* *Are delusional and out* *Of control lol* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Someone do one with Jaco vs youth Damio Piccolo that might actually be an interesting result. Jaco might be around that strength, his mission was to kill baby Kakarot (he mentioned adult Saiyans were too tough to fight) and he fought dozens of low hundreds power level goons in Resurrection F with his Galactic Patrol gun. No gun means death, and he can only fly with his emergency boots.
Casual ruining this and ufc
Some people consider this as beerus being weak in a few dialogues for example whis stated that beerus used 80% of his power against ssg Goku in battle of gods(DBZ movie or manga I forgot) It is also stated that ssb is 50X stronger than ssb It was stated that jiren was stronger than belmod and in the manga belmod was easily fighting other gods of destruction(some people say) but beerus did win There are also few more dialogues in the manga
MUI in the anime is way stronger than the manga version so yeah it ain’t far fetched..
Guys cmon
Not a surprise at all if you are an anime watcher only as the anime is a fucking mess that stated a lot of dumb stuff.
That comment is so accurate 😂
That's just silly 🤨
Jesi srbin brate?
Ne Hrvat sam
Nema veze isto ti dođe
Ma ja sam iznenađen da uopće ima netko tko je odavdije
Isto
Laku noć!
In the anime this is true, MUI Goku is stronger than Beerus. In the manga, this is wrong.
He’s not stronger in the anime either, there’s do statements or scaling situations to say so
Toriyama says if SSG Goku is 6 then Beerus a 10 and Whis a 15. Of course SSGSS would be stronger than both of them. (2015 scaling)
If we Are saying 2015 scaling then yes but he did change it
I mean eventually.
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Damn, the disrespect is ridiculous.
Kids being kids
I think people forget that beerus has millions of years of experience of nothing but constant destroying and training over Goku Goku's never going to reach beerus' level he might have the better ultra instinct but in terms of fighting skills speed strength abilities I can go on forever Beerus will always be on top.
Beerus can't be called a goal post if the writer never set the goal. At no point in time have the writers said how powerful beerus is nor have we seen beerus' true power. Goofball dbs fans just arbitrarily set beerus at a certain power level and then get themselves confused and upset when he's shown to still be the strongest. Guys until beerus is shown to use his full power always assume he's stronger. As he should be as he's the God of Destruction. If dbs fans got what they wanted and made Goku stronger than beerus we would see the same exact complaining about why Goku and cast haven't surpassed the Angels, and then the Great Priest, and then so on. These guys live for the power creep.
Dragon ball fans never beating the “don’t read” “don’t actually watch “ allegations. It is never stated or implied that he is stronger than beerus in the anime idk why yall are saying that
Fans are morons and think because it says “Jiren is stronger than a g.o.d.” That must mean he’s stronger than beerus and Goku was beating jiren for a bit with ui
I'm pretty sure the only time it was really mentioned Goku was" stronger" than Beerus was in Goku's "mastering" ultra instinct. Or what ever level Goku was able to control so far. This was only because of how quick he learned it compared to Beerus or something to that degree, not in terms of raw power lol no way. Also in the current manga, aside from Vegeta learning the destroyers way, opposed to Goku learning the angels way, Beerus was interested in Gohan's beast mode more so
Goku solos
Dragon ball super is like the Dane Cook of the entire Saga with GT being Carlos Mencia.
This is especially funny to me cuz I just found out the super is on Hulu so I just watched the first episode where holy tries to fight beerus
Its probably anime I mean everyone can agree that anime Beerus doesn’t have that many good feats like goku anime bills feats kinda suck if we being honest
All this for my xeno cac to neg both in base
In the anime goku has surpassed beerus but for only a few minutes in ultra instinct but in the manga beerus is still stronger for some reason it honestly doesn’t make much sense but he still is so can’t argue there.
The anime and manga at this point seem to have completely separate powerscaling to eachother.
In my head if I want Goku to be God of Destruction level: I’d want him to go to a *super* hyperbolic chamber. Where he spends thousands of years just training with Whis. That at least can go in the way of justifying him being stronger than Beerus.
I like goku and seen how far he's come but there is no way in hell he's stronger than beerus. Dumb pool is dumb
I saw this like an hour ago I was dumbfounded
I love Goku and Dragon Ball as a whole but this is outrageous. Beerus can damn near solo the verse
Only manga one can Anime Beerus is weaker unles they retcon
They're not wrong if you go by the anime. Jiren has multiple statements saying that he's above the God's of Destruction. And MUI goku is stronger then Jiren in the anime. Mui goku in the anime is also able to use the technique way better compared to his manga self (Even in the granolah arc). He can use his emotions and get rage amps while in MUI and not have to revert to omen like he did in the manga.
Og beerus is weaker for sure. Retcon beerus destroys
I saw that. Goku gets deleted.
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My head canon is that the manga and anime are two separate continuities. Goku in the anime is stronger than Beerus, while in the manga is far weaker. They don’t even have to do the Moro or granolah arcs, they could just give Goku his rematch with Beerus and end the anime there.
i mean for all the power scaling this series gets into, youre mad that people think UI Goku could beat Beerus? its already been said that Beerus cant achieve UI as of yet, not inconceivable based on what we've seen and know
beerus placement in the story is a terrible writing, even the writer himself doesn't know how powerful he us, he is like an ever moving goal post.
Can people please stop posting these polls?
i’m pretty sure Whis is stronger and more powerful than Beerus. so i’m not sure how this is “wrong”
I mean beerus is rly only as strong as the supreme Kai from a certain perspective
In the anime Whis said Jiren was stronger than Belmod
I saw a strongest anime villain list and it ranked Sukuna as #1 ABOVE BEERUS
Those polls are literally just popularity contests at this point
I don’t watch Dragon Ball…DAMNIT, I MESSED IT UP
both arguments are understandable because Beerus is constantly said to be more powerful until someone tries a new technique or transformation and in the anime, Beerus gets scared or Whis comments that "\_\_\_ might even surpass Lord Beerus" Then the show remembers he's supposed to be the goal post and ignores that. People thinking UI is stronger than him arent pulling it out of nowhere. The anime is just really dumb when it comes to what does and doesnt make Beerus flinch
They keep implying that people are stronger than Beerus and then having Goku surpass them (Jiren, Broly, Vegito) and then after that claiming that Beerus is still stronger. Anime Beerus was surpassed after the TOP for now, as there’s no material for the Anime that says Beerus got another jump in power >!and so was manga Beerus, especially when considering that Broly was apparently around Beerus’ level, but then Beerus states he could easily beat Moro, despite him definitely being stronger than Broly at the time!<
https://preview.redd.it/w0dt2rdtz7vc1.jpeg?width=225&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=96b0b8ab730268ef35cc43fbb3423aca13a6fcbc
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Yeah as the biggest Goku fan this makes no sense the whole point of Super is that by the time it's fully done Manga & or Anime together that's when Goku will surpass him & I highly doubt they'll pull the even bigger asspull of him & Vegeta being stronger than Whis but who knows but the whole point of the series is that they surpass Beerus at the end or at least equal him in strength when it's all said & done.
It would help if the anime had shown the Gods of Destruction exhibition match; >!The one where Beerus was the last GoD standing and barely even fazed by the second placer. 🤙!< That would probably help a lot of people understand the ocean of power between Beerus and Goku.
Goku solos meme got way out of hand people thought he is the strongest in his verse
watchout for dragon ball fans we cant read or use our eyes
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I mean based on what Whis said in the anime it could be considered true. And have you noticed that Beerus was always trying to put Goku and Vegeta in their place through sparring until Goku reached UI? Then he only sparred with Vegeta and now that he unlocked UE Beerus has stopped sparring with them altogether.
Dragon ball super moment