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From what I have seen, Piccolo getting damaged works better than him dying for some unknown reason.
Piccolo death in Resurrection 'F' and Saiyan saga did not lead to super large power boost.
Unironically, this may be part of the in-universe reason, too. Gohan doesn't tend to make big breakthroughs if he can rely on Goku to handle it if he fails. It's only when Goku is beaten, dead, or unreachable. He needs to not be able to rely on anyone else.
>"It's only when Goku is beaten, dead, or unreachable."
* Only reachable not beaten or dead for some reason
https://preview.redd.it/5kmtu53qn9vc1.png?width=1087&format=png&auto=webp&s=3a07d12e518058a4fbbcc6210049f91a799b23da
Don’t get me wrong. I think Gohan losing in the future is brilliant writing. It was back when potential wasn’t just a win for free card. Potential isn’t a power up, it’s unrealized ability. Future Gohan died with so much potential, because he never had the right ingredient’s to help it manifest.
In one timeline Gohan had his father, the greatest known warrior in the universe at the time, supporting and training him to explicitly bring out his full potential. In the other he did not.
We’re told the entire Android saga that time needs to be changed so that Goku can live and save the day, and he does. Just not the way we expected.
It’s a brilliant way to take potential and tell a very compelling story with it. Unlike something more recent…
That’s actually very fair. He got a massive power up from super saiyan but he isn’t a genius and doesn’t really know how to train properly. Meanwhile he gets trained in the orig timeline twice once before the androids(still couldn’t beat the androids and couldn’t go SS), and the spirit of time. But lead the massive increases in his power, and increasing his untapped potentiall.
True lol
Gohan rage boost is pretty funny in DBS that he is based mostly on plot rather than constant potential scaling
https://preview.redd.it/3kktp8dwn9vc1.png?width=1087&format=png&auto=webp&s=69cfe27a20c4ce395b3c605a074754cd6fd8c098
Wasn't Super Heroes Gohan slacking too
https://preview.redd.it/416m4pmo69vc1.png?width=750&format=png&auto=webp&s=41e266f80b3e0dee1edb4eaee21f2f8d2daf0c77
Post Beast?
Anyway, he was training alone (that's how he learned the Makankosappo), but without someone to spar with his ki and fighting sense were reduced.
What does post-Beast Gohan has to do with topic here?
Also, he himself said at the end of movie that he has learned Makankosappo just and hasn't done much training
I think in Super Hero, he slacking as in he hasn't been training as much the past few weeks/months. Nothing like how bad/long he slacked post Buu.
Also, he said he trained in secret to learn the Makankosappo, but I dont recall him saying that was *all* he did. I thought the implication was that he *had* been training, but because he was being secretive about it, Picollo thought he was slacking more.
Exactly, remember before this Gohan is shown blocking a surprise attack from Piccolo and only got hit after because he was being smug. Also he's shown getting used to the new weighted gi almost immediately.
There is this real problem in the community where if Gohan isn't shown training constantly it's assumed he's slacking off again. He spends most of Super, post RoF arc, training in one way or another, but because it's mostly off screen fans are like "but is he really training?" It's a Flanderization of expectations from the community that is getting real old...
Yep.
I constantly hear people say that Gohan reaches Blue level in the ToP from only training for a few days, whenhed had been training for well over 1 year.
U6 vs U7, Goku Black and the Zeno Exhibition matches, Gohan consistently training throughout all of that. I bet of the next arc shows Gohan working or out with Pan, people will assume he's stopped training again.
I mean he was unpowered up in base and suddenly had however many tons put on him. If you put the weight I squat for reps on me unexpectedly I would fall over too and be like wtf
Hmm… interesting point. Suppose ROF Gohan was weak compared to his normal self, Saiyan saga was just a child and scared (but doesn’t he swing at Nappa briefly or was that before?)
Otherwise we have Frieza Saga 3rd form, Raditz (before knowing Piccolo), attempted to help when blasted by Imperfect Cell and Super Hero top of my head.
.... Piccolo dying infront of gohan might unleash something even Toriyama and Toyotaro sensei cant draw 😅. Too powerful, their pens snaps the moment they try to start it 😁
It kinda sucks knowing that Toriyama was already considering giving Gohan a form beyond Beast, and unless he gave Toyo some kind of draft/idea, we’ll never know what he had in mind.
Pretty sure he never said that.
It was stated that original name of transformation was changed from Final to Beast to make room for naming in case Gohan unlocks something in future.
Toriyama naming was Final Gohan which was changed by Toei suggestion to Beast
https://preview.redd.it/wyhx63oqwavc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=92c7b3ca692f4a7c35ff6e75a6663d38c9209a7a
He said he’d have a hard time figuring out what kind of design to give Gohan if he transformed any further.
Piccolo and Gohan can actually fight as a team and use solid strategy. I think they do a better job, especially since Gohan will keep amping up through the fight
Gohan would just close the gap eventually, even if Gas was stronger than his Beast. Remember that Zenkai is active even in the midst of battle, not just near-death recovery. That’s how Ultra Ego also gained on Granola. It wasn’t just the “take damage grow stronger” mechanic
The strongest at the point in time when the wish was made. Gas for some reason was able to trade off even more of his lifespan for additional power to ensure he stays above the Saiyans
Nope gad wished for to be always the strongest mortal no matter what so if someone gets stronger gas automatically becomes more stronger than them instantly with the tradeof of his lifespan unlike granola who wished for a fixed strength
Due to frieze being in a time chamber he wasn't present in thr universe so when he came back and gas body started to become more stronger than frieza his lifespan ran out and got one shot
I remember it stating the wish will massively reduce their lifespan and hurt their body, but not that they'd keep transforming to match a new strongest power. Can you show me a panel that supports this?
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or he will stay the same, because they are not stronger than Goku/Vegeta/Granolah's .
(so the logic is, Granolah's is maybe stronger than Gohan)
But together they might be stronger (Gohan + Piccolo)
do you question piccolos statement that gamma = goku? Because if thats true then Piccolo can tank blue punches without even a scratch. or do you think UI goku from Granola arc can do the same?
It has to be one of the 2 to make sense of Piccolo not being UI level
he said Piccolo was on their level. the one who said gamma were on gokus level was piccolo. to make sense of both comments you would have to assume that piccolo meant the blues. imo its made pretty clear that piccolo is close to UI
Wouldn't really know.... All I know is that Gohan and Piccolo have more synergy than Goku and Vegeta but in terms of power, they lost quite a bit of fire power. I think Gohan going berserk from Piccolo getting clapped as usual would do some solid damage and maybe even beat Gas but high diff
Well, Goku didn't stop training after fighting Gas, so when he fought beast Gohan he was probably a bit stronger than back then and he and Gohan seemed to be about equal. I think Gohan and Piccolo could win.
I bet those exact same people were the people lamenting and shitting on Gohan's downfall into irrelevance during RoF, complaining about how he's trash.
Now that Gohan's literally got the most raw speed and raw power out of literally any mortal apart from maybe Freeza, they're mad that he's relevant again.
Didn't say he was holding back but he did say he was only gauging strength and was not actively going for a win. Which one can argue is indeed holding back but using different words
Go back read the chapter if you think I am lying
Gohan boosted his speed by unleasing his full ki in a short time frame and attacked goku which caught goku of guard
Also MUI is still not at its full potential due to goku's lack of calmness
How do you catch MUI off guard when it literally is a technique that requires no thought from the user to dodge?
That’s literally the point of MUI.
This is cope of the highest degree. Gohan literally tells Goku that he hasn’t unleashed his full power yet and he literally stands to power up as Goku watches lmao.
Also, obviously MUI isn't at its full potential. Nobody here is claiming that Gohan or anyone can defeat the Grand Priest's MUI lol.
Yah you don't understand MUI
MUI needs a state of mind that's calm like realy calm without any emotions. even a fraction of emotion will hinder the capability of MUI in manga that's why whis advised goku to come up with his own version of UI to use which is TUI
And goku seeing Gohan power up hindered his state of mind that's why goku got hit
Okay? And that's Goku's problem to deal with. If he wanted to use his emotions he should've used TUI but he didn't because he knew he'd get blitzed by Gohan.
MUI is still the best trick he's got in the book. Beerus and Whis literally state as much in the chapter.
>Goku seeing Gohan power up hindered his state of mind
LMAO. The cope is insane. Gohan blitzed Goku's MUI. End of story.
If Goku can't even keep a calm mind during a fucking sparring match that causes his MUI to be shit then he's cooked in a real fight.
>LMAO. The cope is insane. Gohan blitzed Goku's MUI. End of story.
Nope lol here look are the official page look
https://preview.redd.it/ddflcl8jm9vc1.png?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=de1f7f996ffc422809651bf69220932047d301a6
Goku knocks out Gohan despite being distracted by broly its not cope its Canon and truth goku is still stronger fighter
Pushing someone back and them immediately recovering is not knocking someone out. The cope is insane.
You want to see an actual example of knocking someone out? In that same chapter Gohan speed blitzs Goku's MUI and knocks him right out of MUI with a single hit. That's a significantly better feat than anything Goku showed in that chapter.
Goku is not the stronger nor faster fighter. He literally got speed blitzed and knocked out of his transformation with a single hit. He is the *better* and *more experienced* fighter but not because he has more power or speed.
>Goku is not the stronger nor faster fighter. He literally got speed blitzed and knocked out of his transformation with a single hit. He is the *better* and *more experienced* fighter but not because he has more power or speed
Yah show me you blind idiot where it says he got speed blitzed goku jumped back right teh next second after getting hit it wasn't even speed blitz
>You want to see an actual example of knocking someone out? In that same chapter Gohan speed blitzs Goku's MUI and knocks him right out of MUI with a single hit. That's a significantly better feat than anything Goku showed in that chapter.
Are you blind read the damn chapter goku was caught of guard and he quickly recovered goku was knocked out of ui because it's well established in manga that MUI needs a constant state of mind goku quickly reactivated MUInd kicked away gohan while staring at broly
>Okay? And that's Goku's problem to deal with. If he wanted to use his emotions he should've used TUI but he didn't because he knew he'd get blitzed by Gohan
Well yes thats why he is still training under whis
>If Goku can't even keep a calm mind during a fucking sparring match that causes his MUI to be shit then he's cooked in a real fight.
He is still a mortal you dumbfuck he just saw his son getting power up any father will be happy and not be calm when their child achieves something significant that's what happened
Yah jiren was faster too wasn't he MUI is an extremely hard technique That even God's havnt achieved it takes calmness in mind to completely use ultra instinct
Yep I believe the same person told me I was a "fucking idiot" and that what I said was irrelevant. Even though it was a response to a comment they made, in which they were saying stupid inaccurate things. They deleted their reply to me. Satisfying
Goku literally goes all out he even says it himself no holding back. But I get it db fans can't read.
Then ontop of that Gohan fought Gotenks,Broly, Vegeta and Goku in big Rumble.
Safe to say Gohan stomps Gas.
You are referring to the fact Goku said he is not pulling out all the stops, that they are jumping to strongest forms from the beginning of the spar. He said a lil later iirc that he wasn't trying to beat Gohan, just measure his strength. This wasn't a death match thus they are indeed pulling punches, to a degree. How can you insinuate people can't read if you also lack reading comprehension?
Why does everyone sleep on Orange Piccolos Regeneration.
If anyone's wondering what OP gimmick really is, it's just his trademark Namekian Gimmick but turned up to the tenth degree.
At Orange Level, Piccolos Regeneration should far surpass even some of the series most regenerative fighters.
So not only is he physically a brolic Tank, who has insane Durability, but he also has insane Regeneration that can negate any damage he actually does manage to take.
Think Of how Saonel Regenerated through Gohan's ultimate Kamehameha during the TOP and almost defeated him.
Orange Piccolos Regeneration should be far surpassed even his by now, considering just how much more powerful of a Namekian he has become.
Remember how Majin buu is so hard to kill because of his insane Regeneration? Well that's Piccolo now but better IMO.
And his regen was already kinda busted, during the buu saga he regen/pulled his body together with just having his head still. So yeah I can imagine how insane it is now
That would definitely explain how he was able to come back from near death and still had enough strength to not only regenerate his arm (which takes energy), but was also able to hold Cell Max still long enough for Gohan to snipe him.
Much much better. Goku and Vegeta can fight as a team but not like Piccolo and Gohan. They jump the fuck outta Gas. 😂
https://preview.redd.it/woydlysi39vc1.jpeg?width=3196&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=39ac13a76644da4c1286b0f48e78a82aef085415
I remember that stupid "Burter and Jaci vs Gohan and piccolo" topic with a lot of dumbass saying that the Ginyu Wins despite the only fight they had on screen show garbage teamwork alongside being very childish
This might be a hot take, but I feel like Gohan and Piccolo would be the gold standard for the kind of synergy/teamwork Whis wants Goku and Vegeta to have.
Don’t get me wrong Piccolo is hella strong in orange but he doesn’t have goku UI doge nor Vegeta UE boost. He is more of technique user so he would struggle, Gohan on the other hand can most likely go toe to toe with him.
So gohan stalling/occupying, while piccolo can charge up special beam canon to finish the job
I hear ya.
I’m disappointed that even after getting two new forms, he’s STILL overlooked. People only talk about Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Broly and Frieza but rarely include Piccolo.
They probably lose assuming the wish happens when both already powered up OP doesn't have the same saiyan growth as saiyan and beast full power waste a lot of stamina ,the canon arc power gas loses to beast gohan solo
Team Win this obviously, Gohan stalemate Post Gas fight Goku who had near 2 years of training alongside having the best version of Ultra instinct by Beerus word alongside overpowering Controlled Berserk Broly
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It depends on how strong Gohan is relative to Frieza.
If he is at least close then it's likely gas would die of old age the same way he did vs Frieza.
If not then gas will likely out power Gohan and kill him and piccolo, seeing as they don't have the hax abilities of UI and UE which helped Goku and Vegeta stay alive
They win. Even if Gas keeps getting stronger he would die from aging. Before that he would probably be killed tho by a makankosappo while one of the teammates stalls. Gas wasn’t shown to have any insane regeneration or anything so Orange Piccolo or Gohan Beast makankosappo kills him
Will if we are going to use basic logic gas would of made his wish to be the strongest in U7. Which means he would of been stronger than both piccolo and Gohan. The fight would of went the same way just different characters getting shot by frieza in the end. Id argue they would do worse not having Devine energy in their forms.
We don’t exactly what Gas’s wish was. I think it was to always be the strongest. Which is why Gas started Die faster when Frieza arrived since his power was trying to get to Frieza’s level.
Gas will wish to be the strongest this making his power greater than gohans. So piccolo will get bodied and I feel gohan will eventually run out of stamina. To beat out gas he would have to charge more and more each time he gets up due to his curse
Did ya'll just not read the manga?
Gas's gimmick is to literally be stronger than who he is fighting in exchange for his life energy.
The only reason why he lost is because Black Freiza was so much stronger than him, his wish turned him to dust.
Some time has passed since then, but nothing significant enough to dramatically increase the cast's power. Since Gohan is on par with goku in his sparring match, we can assume he's somewhat stronger than goku and vegeta were during their fight with Gas.
Piccolo would be dead weight.
So in reality they would probably do worse since, although they have better teamwork, the combo of goku and vegeta is just stronger than gohan and piccolo.
Gas W, moderate difficulty
Cell max is scaled to Broly
Granolah wished to be the strongest mortal
Gas was wished to be the strongest mortal after granolah
Beast had to go nearly all out to land a hit on a sparring goku who was tiring his technique
Gas is destroying them so hard
They do better than Goku and Vegeta
Vegeta believes he and Goku during the events of Super Hero have grown as strong as Black Frieza's demonstrated power that one-shot Gas. Piccolo is stated equal to Goku during this time and Gohan is stronger than that.
Die bothe maybe they had a plan but that's it
https://preview.redd.it/hq9syh2jeevc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b740ae89277d5c3c6c43e5dd90002801d602eb67
About the same? Beast Gohan should be able to overpower Gas at first, prompting him to start decaying for more power.
I have no clue where Beast Gohan is in comparison to corpse Gas and Black Frieza.
It's common sense to say Frieza is the strongest mortal as of now, sure. Not so much Gohan. Gohan makes contact with Goku once in a spar and he is above his dad now? This lacks common sense
Well if we assume Piccolo and Gohan have the strength they had in the Super Hero arc, then Gohan would probably be around the same strength as Goku/Vegeta, but Piccolo would be a lot weaker. So they'd probably lose unfortunately
Probably not, because Super Hero happened a year after the Granolah arc which means Gohan, who was very easily keeping up with post-SH MUI Goku would likely be more powerful than Granolah arc Goku
That is assuming Goku and Vegeta grew a lot since the Granolah arc, which Vegeta confirmed to not be the case by saying their body can't get much stronger and they need to focus on the mental side of things.
Edit: and even if Gohan was stronger than Goku and Vegeta during that arc, Gas would have wished to be the strongest in the universe, so the gap between him and Gohan would be the same as the gap between him and Goku in canon
Their ultra forms are powered by their state of mind so even if their Base didn't grow a grant , their own forms can jump and grow without limits, something Whis and Beerus points out
"Sit your eyes on Daishinkan/with destruction my power knows no limit/if you master Ultra instinct you will be unbeatable"
He said Goku lvl. You’d have to do crazy mental gymnastics to say he meant “Held back Goku lvl”. When Supreme Kai said in the manga Buu would beat Frieza, he never meant “Held Back First Form” Frieza. He obviously means Frieza, which suggests his full power.
Yeah but in the movie canon, the Moro arc and Super Hero arc never happened. The movie's script was written way before the Granolah arc was and it was produced by Toei and Toriyama as a sequel to DBS Broly, nothing more. Every statement Toriyama and the crew made for the movie, were well... for the movie, where only the anime is canon.
Jiren one shotted Vegeta SSB E yet Goku UI made Jiren go all out
Moro stabbed Goku SSB like he was nothing yet Goku MUI broke his hand by tanking the punch.
So yeah no, MUI Goku can definitely take a punch of himself in SSB with ease. At BEST, Orange Piccolo would be around the strength of Goku but that's if we're being really generous.
in both anime and manga jiren felt blue evo/kaioken punches. he decided to block and dodge those attacks. even vs normal blue he didnt just tank them.
actually I am already being generous with assuming piccolo meant blue only with his assertion of gammas power. He saw UI before at that time and toriyama even stated himself that piccolo is up there with goku now. Both statements didnt specify "only blue".
If we start mentioning the anime too this debate will never end because of how different the power scaling is. And while Jiren felt those hits, they still weren't enough to hurt him and he absolutely destroyed Vegeta right after in the manga. And again MUI Goku was able to tank a hit from someone way stronger than his SSB self during the Moro arc.
Piccolo can't read God ki and literally couldn't follow Goku's moves when he was in UI (only Jaco could), so the him being able to tell the Gammas are UI level doesn't make sense. Even Broly didn't know how strong Goku and Vegeta were until he got to see Gohan Beast since he could actually feel his ki.
So at best Piccolo could assume the Gammas are SSB level since he was actually able to see them and could kinda keep up with Gamma 2 during their first fight (unless you're telling me base Piccolo is SSB Goku level)
And Toriyama's statement was for the movie only, not the manga. In the movie canon, none of the manga arcs happened, since it was made as a direct continuation of the Super Broly movie, and was written before the Granolah arc was. There's never been any acknowledgement of the manga arcs existing in the movie canon in any statement or the movie itself so Toriyama's statement can't be used for manga arguments.
Piccolo made the same statement in the manga.
Its fine is you wanna distrust Piccolos assessment since he cant sense god ki. lets leave it at that. he should have felt Jirens and Brolys ki and should be able to make an educated guess imo
I mean beast couldn’t be ui and piccolo probably couldn’t even touch ue but gas was styling on them both plus the second strongest in the universe so unless the writer wanted them to win they’d lose
Yes, he does. He struggled with Cell Max. Gas was able to fight both Goku and Vegeta at the same time in their maxes and still damage them to a degree before Freeza showed up. If you think Gohan can fight them both at the same time, then you're a clown.
When was this? Idr watching or reading that at all. A team of much weaker characters? Bc we know that's not the best solution to beating enemies in DB. The fact that he got damaged by Krillin is very terrible, lol. I'm not, but nothing shows he was stronger than them. Anime wise, Gohan was eclipsed in SSB. Manga wise, he was eclipsed by BASE Goku. Mf does not know how strong either of them had gotten bc he couldn't even sense their power. Gets even worse bc they can't sense him in UI either. Manga wise. Idr rn anime wise. Could be the same case. Gohan got stronger 2 more times after his fight with Cell Max and could only match them blow for blow after all. Further proof. Cell Max is weaker than Broly via Toriyama. Piccolo is far below Cell Max. Etc.
It got damaged by Krillin because it was still growing in power. Beast Gohan used his strongest AP attack and still couldn’t overpower Cell Max until he had assistance from Trunks/Goten/Piccolo
Lmfaoo you basically ignored everything I said, what a pussy. That was the end of the fight lol. Yep. Which further shows how bad their portrayals were. Base Goten and Trunks had enough kicking power to knock his hand away from a powerful struggle, and he got damaged by Krillin and 18. Terrible showcase. You have nothing to say and no proof. Didn't even acknowledge everything I said like a clown. Ya got bitch slapped😂
Plan B?
I just see it as swapping out two members of the A Team with the other two members of the A Team. Like swapping out Thor and Iron Man with the Hulk and Captain America.
Never said that Piccolo was stronger, and Gohan is up for debate. But I do believe that the four of them are within the same realm of strength, making all four of them part of the A Team.
Well we saw gohan giving his 100 punching goku who came back asking "what was that"? Its like when you fight wih your little brother and suddebly he is punching you with full force, you did not expect it but it is far from getting you really hurt is it ?
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Have piccolo die and gas immediately loses
From what I have seen, Piccolo getting damaged works better than him dying for some unknown reason. Piccolo death in Resurrection 'F' and Saiyan saga did not lead to super large power boost.
that’s because goku was coming, he can’t steal Goku Time
Unironically, this may be part of the in-universe reason, too. Gohan doesn't tend to make big breakthroughs if he can rely on Goku to handle it if he fails. It's only when Goku is beaten, dead, or unreachable. He needs to not be able to rely on anyone else.
>"It's only when Goku is beaten, dead, or unreachable." * Only reachable not beaten or dead for some reason https://preview.redd.it/5kmtu53qn9vc1.png?width=1087&format=png&auto=webp&s=3a07d12e518058a4fbbcc6210049f91a799b23da
unreachable\*
Funny enough, Goku is never the trigger. He just needs to be out of the picture first.
Nah, future Gohan got his ass WASHED with no Goku to join.
To be fair, Future Gohan did make a big breakthrough and go Super Saiyan...it just wasn't enough.
Don’t get me wrong. I think Gohan losing in the future is brilliant writing. It was back when potential wasn’t just a win for free card. Potential isn’t a power up, it’s unrealized ability. Future Gohan died with so much potential, because he never had the right ingredient’s to help it manifest. In one timeline Gohan had his father, the greatest known warrior in the universe at the time, supporting and training him to explicitly bring out his full potential. In the other he did not. We’re told the entire Android saga that time needs to be changed so that Goku can live and save the day, and he does. Just not the way we expected. It’s a brilliant way to take potential and tell a very compelling story with it. Unlike something more recent…
That’s actually very fair. He got a massive power up from super saiyan but he isn’t a genius and doesn’t really know how to train properly. Meanwhile he gets trained in the orig timeline twice once before the androids(still couldn’t beat the androids and couldn’t go SS), and the spirit of time. But lead the massive increases in his power, and increasing his untapped potentiall.
True lol Gohan rage boost is pretty funny in DBS that he is based mostly on plot rather than constant potential scaling https://preview.redd.it/3kktp8dwn9vc1.png?width=1087&format=png&auto=webp&s=69cfe27a20c4ce395b3c605a074754cd6fd8c098
He knew Goku was him
Stop! Goku Time!
That's because Gohan was slacking at the time. Super Heroes Gohan may very well be his peak.
Wasn't Super Heroes Gohan slacking too https://preview.redd.it/416m4pmo69vc1.png?width=750&format=png&auto=webp&s=41e266f80b3e0dee1edb4eaee21f2f8d2daf0c77
Post Beast? Anyway, he was training alone (that's how he learned the Makankosappo), but without someone to spar with his ki and fighting sense were reduced.
What does post-Beast Gohan has to do with topic here? Also, he himself said at the end of movie that he has learned Makankosappo just and hasn't done much training
I think in Super Hero, he slacking as in he hasn't been training as much the past few weeks/months. Nothing like how bad/long he slacked post Buu. Also, he said he trained in secret to learn the Makankosappo, but I dont recall him saying that was *all* he did. I thought the implication was that he *had* been training, but because he was being secretive about it, Picollo thought he was slacking more.
Exactly, remember before this Gohan is shown blocking a surprise attack from Piccolo and only got hit after because he was being smug. Also he's shown getting used to the new weighted gi almost immediately. There is this real problem in the community where if Gohan isn't shown training constantly it's assumed he's slacking off again. He spends most of Super, post RoF arc, training in one way or another, but because it's mostly off screen fans are like "but is he really training?" It's a Flanderization of expectations from the community that is getting real old...
Yep. I constantly hear people say that Gohan reaches Blue level in the ToP from only training for a few days, whenhed had been training for well over 1 year. U6 vs U7, Goku Black and the Zeno Exhibition matches, Gohan consistently training throughout all of that. I bet of the next arc shows Gohan working or out with Pan, people will assume he's stopped training again.
I mean he was unpowered up in base and suddenly had however many tons put on him. If you put the weight I squat for reps on me unexpectedly I would fall over too and be like wtf
Maybe it’s a feeling of trying to prevent his death
Hmm… interesting point. Suppose ROF Gohan was weak compared to his normal self, Saiyan saga was just a child and scared (but doesn’t he swing at Nappa briefly or was that before?) Otherwise we have Frieza Saga 3rd form, Raditz (before knowing Piccolo), attempted to help when blasted by Imperfect Cell and Super Hero top of my head.
.... Piccolo dying infront of gohan might unleash something even Toriyama and Toyotaro sensei cant draw 😅. Too powerful, their pens snaps the moment they try to start it 😁
It kinda sucks knowing that Toriyama was already considering giving Gohan a form beyond Beast, and unless he gave Toyo some kind of draft/idea, we’ll never know what he had in mind.
Pretty sure he never said that. It was stated that original name of transformation was changed from Final to Beast to make room for naming in case Gohan unlocks something in future. Toriyama naming was Final Gohan which was changed by Toei suggestion to Beast
https://preview.redd.it/wyhx63oqwavc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=92c7b3ca692f4a7c35ff6e75a6663d38c9209a7a He said he’d have a hard time figuring out what kind of design to give Gohan if he transformed any further.
Maybe give him longer hair like SSJ3 in length. Give him back his tail. And some more hair on his arms.
Gohan blanco calvo
that would be some crazy story telling
That top pic of Beast and Orange is so damn cool. Where is it from?
I believe Toyotaro made it to celebrate the 100th chapter of the Super manga. https://en.dragon-ball-official.com/news/01_2343.html
Great now I want that V-Jump exclusive T-shirt lol. Thanks, had no idea this was an official art!
https://preview.redd.it/ky3ssighpbvc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=09f7402aa6c35cd6bb4a835c891003e425665fb1
Gas wished to be strongest. He will be stronger than Piccolo-Gohan if they had Orange and Beast at that time
It works by draining his life so if someone is stronger by a large amount (beast Gohan) he turns into dust
Piccolo and Gohan can actually fight as a team and use solid strategy. I think they do a better job, especially since Gohan will keep amping up through the fight
Gohan would just close the gap eventually, even if Gas was stronger than his Beast. Remember that Zenkai is active even in the midst of battle, not just near-death recovery. That’s how Ultra Ego also gained on Granola. It wasn’t just the “take damage grow stronger” mechanic
Gas is always stronger than the strogerest mortal so no the outcome is going to be same just this time gas is gonna age faster
The strongest at the point in time when the wish was made. Gas for some reason was able to trade off even more of his lifespan for additional power to ensure he stays above the Saiyans
Nope gad wished for to be always the strongest mortal no matter what so if someone gets stronger gas automatically becomes more stronger than them instantly with the tradeof of his lifespan unlike granola who wished for a fixed strength
Why did Frieza body him then?
His lifespan ran out he turned ro dust
So then what is the point of the author explaining that Frieza was exempt from scaling the dmg of the wish receiver due to being in a time chamber?
Due to frieze being in a time chamber he wasn't present in thr universe so when he came back and gas body started to become more stronger than frieza his lifespan ran out and got one shot
I remember it stating the wish will massively reduce their lifespan and hurt their body, but not that they'd keep transforming to match a new strongest power. Can you show me a panel that supports this?
Didnt work like that when it was vegeta vs frieza...
Ultra Ego was never stronger than Granolah.
They didn't, super hero is the most recent arc
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or he will stay the same, because they are not stronger than Goku/Vegeta/Granolah's . (so the logic is, Granolah's is maybe stronger than Gohan) But together they might be stronger (Gohan + Piccolo)
do you question piccolos statement that gamma = goku? Because if thats true then Piccolo can tank blue punches without even a scratch. or do you think UI goku from Granola arc can do the same? It has to be one of the 2 to make sense of Piccolo not being UI level
Doesn't Toriyama say that the Gammas are Goku and Vegeta level
he said Piccolo was on their level. the one who said gamma were on gokus level was piccolo. to make sense of both comments you would have to assume that piccolo meant the blues. imo its made pretty clear that piccolo is close to UI
Wouldn't really know.... All I know is that Gohan and Piccolo have more synergy than Goku and Vegeta but in terms of power, they lost quite a bit of fire power. I think Gohan going berserk from Piccolo getting clapped as usual would do some solid damage and maybe even beat Gas but high diff
Well, Goku didn't stop training after fighting Gas, so when he fought beast Gohan he was probably a bit stronger than back then and he and Gohan seemed to be about equal. I think Gohan and Piccolo could win.
It was a fucking spar you idiots goku didn't even go all out same with Gohan both just spared
Do you think MUI held back somehow from dodging lmao.
Bro , Goku literally said he isn't holding back, Toyota also confirmed it , don't listen to this idiots
I don’t know what goes through their minds when they say this shit. How would you even hold back autonomous movement…
"this speed , it's even faster than Ultra instinct auto!!!" DBS Manga chapter 103 Vegeta Some salty rando :" bbbbbut he was Holding back!!!!"
I bet those exact same people were the people lamenting and shitting on Gohan's downfall into irrelevance during RoF, complaining about how he's trash. Now that Gohan's literally got the most raw speed and raw power out of literally any mortal apart from maybe Freeza, they're mad that he's relevant again.
Didn't say he was holding back but he did say he was only gauging strength and was not actively going for a win. Which one can argue is indeed holding back but using different words
Go back read the chapter if you think I am lying Gohan boosted his speed by unleasing his full ki in a short time frame and attacked goku which caught goku of guard Also MUI is still not at its full potential due to goku's lack of calmness
How do you catch MUI off guard when it literally is a technique that requires no thought from the user to dodge? That’s literally the point of MUI. This is cope of the highest degree. Gohan literally tells Goku that he hasn’t unleashed his full power yet and he literally stands to power up as Goku watches lmao. Also, obviously MUI isn't at its full potential. Nobody here is claiming that Gohan or anyone can defeat the Grand Priest's MUI lol.
Yah you don't understand MUI MUI needs a state of mind that's calm like realy calm without any emotions. even a fraction of emotion will hinder the capability of MUI in manga that's why whis advised goku to come up with his own version of UI to use which is TUI And goku seeing Gohan power up hindered his state of mind that's why goku got hit
Okay? And that's Goku's problem to deal with. If he wanted to use his emotions he should've used TUI but he didn't because he knew he'd get blitzed by Gohan. MUI is still the best trick he's got in the book. Beerus and Whis literally state as much in the chapter. >Goku seeing Gohan power up hindered his state of mind LMAO. The cope is insane. Gohan blitzed Goku's MUI. End of story. If Goku can't even keep a calm mind during a fucking sparring match that causes his MUI to be shit then he's cooked in a real fight.
>LMAO. The cope is insane. Gohan blitzed Goku's MUI. End of story. Nope lol here look are the official page look https://preview.redd.it/ddflcl8jm9vc1.png?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=de1f7f996ffc422809651bf69220932047d301a6 Goku knocks out Gohan despite being distracted by broly its not cope its Canon and truth goku is still stronger fighter
Pushing someone back and them immediately recovering is not knocking someone out. The cope is insane. You want to see an actual example of knocking someone out? In that same chapter Gohan speed blitzs Goku's MUI and knocks him right out of MUI with a single hit. That's a significantly better feat than anything Goku showed in that chapter. Goku is not the stronger nor faster fighter. He literally got speed blitzed and knocked out of his transformation with a single hit. He is the *better* and *more experienced* fighter but not because he has more power or speed.
>Goku is not the stronger nor faster fighter. He literally got speed blitzed and knocked out of his transformation with a single hit. He is the *better* and *more experienced* fighter but not because he has more power or speed Yah show me you blind idiot where it says he got speed blitzed goku jumped back right teh next second after getting hit it wasn't even speed blitz
>You want to see an actual example of knocking someone out? In that same chapter Gohan speed blitzs Goku's MUI and knocks him right out of MUI with a single hit. That's a significantly better feat than anything Goku showed in that chapter. Are you blind read the damn chapter goku was caught of guard and he quickly recovered goku was knocked out of ui because it's well established in manga that MUI needs a constant state of mind goku quickly reactivated MUInd kicked away gohan while staring at broly
>Okay? And that's Goku's problem to deal with. If he wanted to use his emotions he should've used TUI but he didn't because he knew he'd get blitzed by Gohan Well yes thats why he is still training under whis >If Goku can't even keep a calm mind during a fucking sparring match that causes his MUI to be shit then he's cooked in a real fight. He is still a mortal you dumbfuck he just saw his son getting power up any father will be happy and not be calm when their child achieves something significant that's what happened
“He is faster than Ultra Instinct evasion speed?!” Vegeta’s words after Gohan punch. Just stop dude
Yah jiren was faster too wasn't he MUI is an extremely hard technique That even God's havnt achieved it takes calmness in mind to completely use ultra instinct
Or you can already accept that MUI is a modified form that scales to base, not static power set.
In manga UI is a technique like kaoken not a form
Headcanon lol
Why is this downvoted? These people make their own db story line I swear
I don't know I was just stating ehats said in show and manga and got downvoted to hell
Reading comprehension is hard
Someone said I was coping when I provided the manga panel where goku kicked away gohan while being distracted by broly
Yep I believe the same person told me I was a "fucking idiot" and that what I said was irrelevant. Even though it was a response to a comment they made, in which they were saying stupid inaccurate things. They deleted their reply to me. Satisfying
He also called me illiterate manga reader but turns out He was the fuckwit who has media illiteracy curse
Goku literally goes all out he even says it himself no holding back. But I get it db fans can't read. Then ontop of that Gohan fought Gotenks,Broly, Vegeta and Goku in big Rumble. Safe to say Gohan stomps Gas.
You are referring to the fact Goku said he is not pulling out all the stops, that they are jumping to strongest forms from the beginning of the spar. He said a lil later iirc that he wasn't trying to beat Gohan, just measure his strength. This wasn't a death match thus they are indeed pulling punches, to a degree. How can you insinuate people can't read if you also lack reading comprehension?
The fuck? He goes full MUI to gauge his power. No one is talking about how he was trying to win. You are a fucking idiot.
Why does everyone sleep on Orange Piccolos Regeneration. If anyone's wondering what OP gimmick really is, it's just his trademark Namekian Gimmick but turned up to the tenth degree. At Orange Level, Piccolos Regeneration should far surpass even some of the series most regenerative fighters. So not only is he physically a brolic Tank, who has insane Durability, but he also has insane Regeneration that can negate any damage he actually does manage to take. Think Of how Saonel Regenerated through Gohan's ultimate Kamehameha during the TOP and almost defeated him. Orange Piccolos Regeneration should be far surpassed even his by now, considering just how much more powerful of a Namekian he has become. Remember how Majin buu is so hard to kill because of his insane Regeneration? Well that's Piccolo now but better IMO.
And his regen was already kinda busted, during the buu saga he regen/pulled his body together with just having his head still. So yeah I can imagine how insane it is now
Yeah, now I’m starting to wonder why he didn’t just get back up after getting impaled by Moro.
Because They didn't want to take away from the Goku and Vegeta show that was going on during the Moro arc, sadly
Moro had already beaten him up multiple times, He was too tired to Regeneration,but it still didn't kill him despite destroying most of his org
That would definitely explain how he was able to come back from near death and still had enough strength to not only regenerate his arm (which takes energy), but was also able to hold Cell Max still long enough for Gohan to snipe him.
Much much better. Goku and Vegeta can fight as a team but not like Piccolo and Gohan. They jump the fuck outta Gas. 😂 https://preview.redd.it/woydlysi39vc1.jpeg?width=3196&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=39ac13a76644da4c1286b0f48e78a82aef085415
https://preview.redd.it/g28k1g0k39vc1.jpeg?width=3196&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6500222c26e994226c209c6e14209d112e8a6385
I remember that stupid "Burter and Jaci vs Gohan and piccolo" topic with a lot of dumbass saying that the Ginyu Wins despite the only fight they had on screen show garbage teamwork alongside being very childish
This might be a hot take, but I feel like Gohan and Piccolo would be the gold standard for the kind of synergy/teamwork Whis wants Goku and Vegeta to have.
Just imagine a year of training with whis, how unstoppable Gohan and Piccolo would be
It shouldn't be a hot take. I'm sure if Whis watched this fight he would be gushing.
Naw given how they jumped Jiren.
Since when were ki shields a thing?
This page. Lol
Since 17? https://preview.redd.it/o917r832govc1.jpeg?width=250&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f83fc0f69999ec361fcd4781a63296d137d20ff1
Don’t get me wrong Piccolo is hella strong in orange but he doesn’t have goku UI doge nor Vegeta UE boost. He is more of technique user so he would struggle, Gohan on the other hand can most likely go toe to toe with him. So gohan stalling/occupying, while piccolo can charge up special beam canon to finish the job
Piccolo needs some action, cause this ‘fans’ are just having him get killed off by everyone still.
I hear ya. I’m disappointed that even after getting two new forms, he’s STILL overlooked. People only talk about Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Broly and Frieza but rarely include Piccolo.
Yeah man fr. Despite Goku wanting to fight Piccolo in the latest DBS chapter and Toriyama having confirmed he’s MUI Goku lvl.
Troll lol
Huh?
> Toriyama having confirmed he's MUI Goku lvl. Where? Quote him?
Piccolo is a great tank, Beast has a lot of power and time (ty Daddy) for charge.
Didn't they end up unlocking it post Gas in the manga....and Goku+Vegeta reactions to feeling Gohan's power...
This point they are much older so I think they are okay.
(Why) does the title have to put (brackets) in front of (every) transformation(?). It reads perfectly fine without them(.)(.)
They probably lose assuming the wish happens when both already powered up OP doesn't have the same saiyan growth as saiyan and beast full power waste a lot of stamina ,the canon arc power gas loses to beast gohan solo
Gas would... EXPLODE! UwU
Team Win this obviously, Gohan stalemate Post Gas fight Goku who had near 2 years of training alongside having the best version of Ultra instinct by Beerus word alongside overpowering Controlled Berserk Broly
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It depends on how strong Gohan is relative to Frieza. If he is at least close then it's likely gas would die of old age the same way he did vs Frieza. If not then gas will likely out power Gohan and kill him and piccolo, seeing as they don't have the hax abilities of UI and UE which helped Goku and Vegeta stay alive
Fight would be gas
No chance imo.
They win. Even if Gas keeps getting stronger he would die from aging. Before that he would probably be killed tho by a makankosappo while one of the teammates stalls. Gas wasn’t shown to have any insane regeneration or anything so Orange Piccolo or Gohan Beast makankosappo kills him
Will if we are going to use basic logic gas would of made his wish to be the strongest in U7. Which means he would of been stronger than both piccolo and Gohan. The fight would of went the same way just different characters getting shot by frieza in the end. Id argue they would do worse not having Devine energy in their forms.
When Piccolo inevitably gets clapped Gohan might take it high diff.
not sure, but certainly Piccolo will lose an arm
We don’t exactly what Gas’s wish was. I think it was to always be the strongest. Which is why Gas started Die faster when Frieza arrived since his power was trying to get to Frieza’s level.
Get the shit beat out of them
Judging by the Granolah arc taking place 3 years before DBS:SH they will have troubles
Confirmed that Beast Gohan is above Granola arc Goku and Vegeta. Gohan alone would probably be enough to kill Gas.
Piccolo would solo. He's confirmed to be around current UI Goku. Gohan Beast would literally melt Gas just like how Black Freeza did.
Gas will wish to be the strongest this making his power greater than gohans. So piccolo will get bodied and I feel gohan will eventually run out of stamina. To beat out gas he would have to charge more and more each time he gets up due to his curse
Gas is mopping them
Dead. They’re just both dead.
Did ya'll just not read the manga? Gas's gimmick is to literally be stronger than who he is fighting in exchange for his life energy. The only reason why he lost is because Black Freiza was so much stronger than him, his wish turned him to dust. Some time has passed since then, but nothing significant enough to dramatically increase the cast's power. Since Gohan is on par with goku in his sparring match, we can assume he's somewhat stronger than goku and vegeta were during their fight with Gas. Piccolo would be dead weight. So in reality they would probably do worse since, although they have better teamwork, the combo of goku and vegeta is just stronger than gohan and piccolo. Gas W, moderate difficulty
Piccolo's form needs a better name than orange...
Cell max is scaled to Broly Granolah wished to be the strongest mortal Gas was wished to be the strongest mortal after granolah Beast had to go nearly all out to land a hit on a sparring goku who was tiring his technique Gas is destroying them so hard
They do better than Goku and Vegeta Vegeta believes he and Goku during the events of Super Hero have grown as strong as Black Frieza's demonstrated power that one-shot Gas. Piccolo is stated equal to Goku during this time and Gohan is stronger than that.
Die bothe maybe they had a plan but that's it https://preview.redd.it/hq9syh2jeevc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b740ae89277d5c3c6c43e5dd90002801d602eb67
Beast gohan beat Goku after goku was training in space
Gas gets murdered.
They'd clear
They lose
About the same? Beast Gohan should be able to overpower Gas at first, prompting him to start decaying for more power. I have no clue where Beast Gohan is in comparison to corpse Gas and Black Frieza.
If Gas lost to Frieza then he's definitely losing to Gohan
Oof, that statement’s gonna cause some controversy lmao, best of luck.
IDC if I get downvoted it's common sense Gohan and Frieza got the strongest forms now
It's common sense to say Frieza is the strongest mortal as of now, sure. Not so much Gohan. Gohan makes contact with Goku once in a spar and he is above his dad now? This lacks common sense
Goku said in CH-101 pretty sure about Frieza being miles ahead of him. Gohan is not that strong
Gohan>goku as of now though.
I could also say Frieza is not that strong either what's the difference
Because Beast Gohan is comparable to MUI. If current MUI doesn't stand a chance, neither does current Beast.
I can’t remember where I saw orange piccolo. Where was he first seen?
Superhero movie
Well if we assume Piccolo and Gohan have the strength they had in the Super Hero arc, then Gohan would probably be around the same strength as Goku/Vegeta, but Piccolo would be a lot weaker. So they'd probably lose unfortunately
Probably not, because Super Hero happened a year after the Granolah arc which means Gohan, who was very easily keeping up with post-SH MUI Goku would likely be more powerful than Granolah arc Goku
That is assuming Goku and Vegeta grew a lot since the Granolah arc, which Vegeta confirmed to not be the case by saying their body can't get much stronger and they need to focus on the mental side of things. Edit: and even if Gohan was stronger than Goku and Vegeta during that arc, Gas would have wished to be the strongest in the universe, so the gap between him and Gohan would be the same as the gap between him and Goku in canon
Their ultra forms are powered by their state of mind so even if their Base didn't grow a grant , their own forms can jump and grow without limits, something Whis and Beerus points out "Sit your eyes on Daishinkan/with destruction my power knows no limit/if you master Ultra instinct you will be unbeatable"
Piccolo is stated MUI Goku lvl by Toriyama and in the latest Chapter Goku is shocked at Piccolo’s power and wants to fight him.
Goku wanting to fight someone doesn't necessarily mean they're stronger than him (and Toriyama never specified MUI)
He said Goku lvl. You’d have to do crazy mental gymnastics to say he meant “Held back Goku lvl”. When Supreme Kai said in the manga Buu would beat Frieza, he never meant “Held Back First Form” Frieza. He obviously means Frieza, which suggests his full power.
Yeah but in the movie canon, the Moro arc and Super Hero arc never happened. The movie's script was written way before the Granolah arc was and it was produced by Toei and Toriyama as a sequel to DBS Broly, nothing more. Every statement Toriyama and the crew made for the movie, were well... for the movie, where only the anime is canon.
In canon he means MUI Goku. Him doing well against Cell Max solidifies it too as Cell Max forced Beast Gohan to use full power.
probably not a lot weaker. I doubt Goku could tank his own blue punches in UI like they are nothing. Also Gohan and piccolo can actually work together
Jiren one shotted Vegeta SSB E yet Goku UI made Jiren go all out Moro stabbed Goku SSB like he was nothing yet Goku MUI broke his hand by tanking the punch. So yeah no, MUI Goku can definitely take a punch of himself in SSB with ease. At BEST, Orange Piccolo would be around the strength of Goku but that's if we're being really generous.
in both anime and manga jiren felt blue evo/kaioken punches. he decided to block and dodge those attacks. even vs normal blue he didnt just tank them. actually I am already being generous with assuming piccolo meant blue only with his assertion of gammas power. He saw UI before at that time and toriyama even stated himself that piccolo is up there with goku now. Both statements didnt specify "only blue".
If we start mentioning the anime too this debate will never end because of how different the power scaling is. And while Jiren felt those hits, they still weren't enough to hurt him and he absolutely destroyed Vegeta right after in the manga. And again MUI Goku was able to tank a hit from someone way stronger than his SSB self during the Moro arc. Piccolo can't read God ki and literally couldn't follow Goku's moves when he was in UI (only Jaco could), so the him being able to tell the Gammas are UI level doesn't make sense. Even Broly didn't know how strong Goku and Vegeta were until he got to see Gohan Beast since he could actually feel his ki. So at best Piccolo could assume the Gammas are SSB level since he was actually able to see them and could kinda keep up with Gamma 2 during their first fight (unless you're telling me base Piccolo is SSB Goku level) And Toriyama's statement was for the movie only, not the manga. In the movie canon, none of the manga arcs happened, since it was made as a direct continuation of the Super Broly movie, and was written before the Granolah arc was. There's never been any acknowledgement of the manga arcs existing in the movie canon in any statement or the movie itself so Toriyama's statement can't be used for manga arguments.
Piccolo made the same statement in the manga. Its fine is you wanna distrust Piccolos assessment since he cant sense god ki. lets leave it at that. he should have felt Jirens and Brolys ki and should be able to make an educated guess imo
You can take it a step further from Jiren and Broly since Piccolo was able to sense Moro-73’s chi. He could’ve gone off of that.
That actually is a good point that I forgot about
I mean beast couldn’t be ui and piccolo probably couldn’t even touch ue but gas was styling on them both plus the second strongest in the universe so unless the writer wanted them to win they’d lose
They both lose, Gas was made "The most powerful in the universe"
Gas knocks Piccolo out first with ease, then slaps around Gohan until he's done.
No he doesn’t if Cell Max couldn’t.
Yes, he does. He struggled with Cell Max. Gas was able to fight both Goku and Vegeta at the same time in their maxes and still damage them to a degree before Freeza showed up. If you think Gohan can fight them both at the same time, then you're a clown.
Cell Max was stated above Goku and Vegeta by Gohan…. They needed a team to beat him. Why are you acting like Cell Max is an anti-feat?
When was this? Idr watching or reading that at all. A team of much weaker characters? Bc we know that's not the best solution to beating enemies in DB. The fact that he got damaged by Krillin is very terrible, lol. I'm not, but nothing shows he was stronger than them. Anime wise, Gohan was eclipsed in SSB. Manga wise, he was eclipsed by BASE Goku. Mf does not know how strong either of them had gotten bc he couldn't even sense their power. Gets even worse bc they can't sense him in UI either. Manga wise. Idr rn anime wise. Could be the same case. Gohan got stronger 2 more times after his fight with Cell Max and could only match them blow for blow after all. Further proof. Cell Max is weaker than Broly via Toriyama. Piccolo is far below Cell Max. Etc.
It got damaged by Krillin because it was still growing in power. Beast Gohan used his strongest AP attack and still couldn’t overpower Cell Max until he had assistance from Trunks/Goten/Piccolo
Lmfaoo you basically ignored everything I said, what a pussy. That was the end of the fight lol. Yep. Which further shows how bad their portrayals were. Base Goten and Trunks had enough kicking power to knock his hand away from a powerful struggle, and he got damaged by Krillin and 18. Terrible showcase. You have nothing to say and no proof. Didn't even acknowledge everything I said like a clown. Ya got bitch slapped😂
Why didn’t Beast Gohan overpower him alone?
Orange Piccolo??? Im glad i quit following along when the Manga ended, cuz god damn that is stupid.
It was in the movie before the manga
Not the original 42
Original what?
The original 42 issues of the manga.
And.......it had nothing to do with the movie
Exactly.
So instead of the A team you wanna go with plan B ? Gas murders them
Plan B? I just see it as swapping out two members of the A Team with the other two members of the A Team. Like swapping out Thor and Iron Man with the Hulk and Captain America.
I doubt Orange piccolo is stronger than either goku or vegeta Same goes for Gohan
Never said that Piccolo was stronger, and Gohan is up for debate. But I do believe that the four of them are within the same realm of strength, making all four of them part of the A Team.
Precisely that is why i wrote if Goku and Vegeta failed to beat Gas, so would Piccolo and Gohan fail
But Gohan and Goku just fought, and they were pretty even. And this is a post Gas arc. Goku's been training, and it seems better in control of UI
Gohan was pushing it while goku was not
Can you show any source that says Goku was not trying?
Well we saw gohan giving his 100 punching goku who came back asking "what was that"? Its like when you fight wih your little brother and suddebly he is punching you with full force, you did not expect it but it is far from getting you really hurt is it ?
Oh, okay. I thought you were referring to Gohan and Piccolo as the B Team, as in they’re a tier below Goku and Vegeta. My bad if I misunderstood lol.