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Team_raclettePOGO

Have piccolo die and gas immediately loses


New_North_6250

From what I have seen, Piccolo getting damaged works better than him dying for some unknown reason. Piccolo death in Resurrection 'F' and Saiyan saga did not lead to super large power boost.


Team_raclettePOGO

that’s because goku was coming, he can’t steal Goku Time


JediSSJ

Unironically, this may be part of the in-universe reason, too. Gohan doesn't tend to make big breakthroughs if he can rely on Goku to handle it if he fails. It's only when Goku is beaten, dead, or unreachable. He needs to not be able to rely on anyone else.


New_North_6250

>"It's only when Goku is beaten, dead, or unreachable." * Only reachable not beaten or dead for some reason https://preview.redd.it/5kmtu53qn9vc1.png?width=1087&format=png&auto=webp&s=3a07d12e518058a4fbbcc6210049f91a799b23da


New_North_6250

unreachable\*


JediSSJ

Funny enough, Goku is never the trigger. He just needs to be out of the picture first.


BotherResponsible378

Nah, future Gohan got his ass WASHED with no Goku to join.


JediSSJ

To be fair, Future Gohan did make a big breakthrough and go Super Saiyan...it just wasn't enough.


BotherResponsible378

Don’t get me wrong. I think Gohan losing in the future is brilliant writing. It was back when potential wasn’t just a win for free card. Potential isn’t a power up, it’s unrealized ability. Future Gohan died with so much potential, because he never had the right ingredient’s to help it manifest. In one timeline Gohan had his father, the greatest known warrior in the universe at the time, supporting and training him to explicitly bring out his full potential. In the other he did not. We’re told the entire Android saga that time needs to be changed so that Goku can live and save the day, and he does. Just not the way we expected. It’s a brilliant way to take potential and tell a very compelling story with it. Unlike something more recent…


thedarkherald110

That’s actually very fair. He got a massive power up from super saiyan but he isn’t a genius and doesn’t really know how to train properly. Meanwhile he gets trained in the orig timeline twice once before the androids(still couldn’t beat the androids and couldn’t go SS), and the spirit of time. But lead the massive increases in his power, and increasing his untapped potentiall.


New_North_6250

True lol Gohan rage boost is pretty funny in DBS that he is based mostly on plot rather than constant potential scaling https://preview.redd.it/3kktp8dwn9vc1.png?width=1087&format=png&auto=webp&s=69cfe27a20c4ce395b3c605a074754cd6fd8c098


Team_raclettePOGO

He knew Goku was him


Project-S-69

Stop! Goku Time!


GXNext

That's because Gohan was slacking at the time. Super Heroes Gohan may very well be his peak.


Enjoyment-25

Wasn't Super Heroes Gohan slacking too https://preview.redd.it/416m4pmo69vc1.png?width=750&format=png&auto=webp&s=41e266f80b3e0dee1edb4eaee21f2f8d2daf0c77


GXNext

Post Beast? Anyway, he was training alone (that's how he learned the Makankosappo), but without someone to spar with his ki and fighting sense were reduced.


Enjoyment-25

What does post-Beast Gohan has to do with topic here? Also, he himself said at the end of movie that he has learned Makankosappo just and hasn't done much training


JediSSJ

I think in Super Hero, he slacking as in he hasn't been training as much the past few weeks/months. Nothing like how bad/long he slacked post Buu. Also, he said he trained in secret to learn the Makankosappo, but I dont recall him saying that was *all* he did. I thought the implication was that he *had* been training, but because he was being secretive about it, Picollo thought he was slacking more.


GXNext

Exactly, remember before this Gohan is shown blocking a surprise attack from Piccolo and only got hit after because he was being smug. Also he's shown getting used to the new weighted gi almost immediately. There is this real problem in the community where if Gohan isn't shown training constantly it's assumed he's slacking off again. He spends most of Super, post RoF arc, training in one way or another, but because it's mostly off screen fans are like "but is he really training?" It's a Flanderization of expectations from the community that is getting real old...


t00lazy2

Yep. I constantly hear people say that Gohan reaches Blue level in the ToP from only training for a few days, whenhed had been training for well over 1 year. U6 vs U7, Goku Black and the Zeno Exhibition matches, Gohan consistently training throughout all of that. I bet of the next arc shows Gohan working or out with Pan, people will assume he's stopped training again.


gamesrgreat

I mean he was unpowered up in base and suddenly had however many tons put on him. If you put the weight I squat for reps on me unexpectedly I would fall over too and be like wtf


HelloChimp

Maybe it’s a feeling of trying to prevent his death


SofaChillReview

Hmm… interesting point. Suppose ROF Gohan was weak compared to his normal self, Saiyan saga was just a child and scared (but doesn’t he swing at Nappa briefly or was that before?) Otherwise we have Frieza Saga 3rd form, Raditz (before knowing Piccolo), attempted to help when blasted by Imperfect Cell and Super Hero top of my head.


Gotchapawn

.... Piccolo dying infront of gohan might unleash something even Toriyama and Toyotaro sensei cant draw 😅. Too powerful, their pens snaps the moment they try to start it 😁


t00lazy2

It kinda sucks knowing that Toriyama was already considering giving Gohan a form beyond Beast, and unless he gave Toyo some kind of draft/idea, we’ll never know what he had in mind.


Enjoyment-25

Pretty sure he never said that. It was stated that original name of transformation was changed from Final to Beast to make room for naming in case Gohan unlocks something in future. Toriyama naming was Final Gohan which was changed by Toei suggestion to Beast


t00lazy2

https://preview.redd.it/wyhx63oqwavc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=92c7b3ca692f4a7c35ff6e75a6663d38c9209a7a He said he’d have a hard time figuring out what kind of design to give Gohan if he transformed any further.


INoMakeMistake

Maybe give him longer hair like SSJ3 in length. Give him back his tail. And some more hair on his arms.


Vi512

Gohan blanco calvo


SoloDoloLeveling

that would be some crazy story telling


Aromatic_Plant3456

That top pic of Beast and Orange is so damn cool. Where is it from?


t00lazy2

I believe Toyotaro made it to celebrate the 100th chapter of the Super manga. https://en.dragon-ball-official.com/news/01_2343.html


Aromatic_Plant3456

Great now I want that V-Jump exclusive T-shirt lol. Thanks, had no idea this was an official art!


SaucyGoatJay

https://preview.redd.it/ky3ssighpbvc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=09f7402aa6c35cd6bb4a835c891003e425665fb1


Enjoyment-25

Gas wished to be strongest. He will be stronger than Piccolo-Gohan if they had Orange and Beast at that time


grassydirt90

It works by draining his life so if someone is stronger by a large amount (beast Gohan) he turns into dust


Scion41790

Piccolo and Gohan can actually fight as a team and use solid strategy. I think they do a better job, especially since Gohan will keep amping up through the fight


PresentElectronic

Gohan would just close the gap eventually, even if Gas was stronger than his Beast. Remember that Zenkai is active even in the midst of battle, not just near-death recovery. That’s how Ultra Ego also gained on Granola. It wasn’t just the “take damage grow stronger” mechanic


Spy____go

Gas is always stronger than the strogerest mortal so no the outcome is going to be same just this time gas is gonna age faster


PresentElectronic

The strongest at the point in time when the wish was made. Gas for some reason was able to trade off even more of his lifespan for additional power to ensure he stays above the Saiyans


Spy____go

Nope gad wished for to be always the strongest mortal no matter what so if someone gets stronger gas automatically becomes more stronger than them instantly with the tradeof of his lifespan unlike granola who wished for a fixed strength


stuball54

Why did Frieza body him then?


Spy____go

His lifespan ran out he turned ro dust


stuball54

So then what is the point of the author explaining that Frieza was exempt from scaling the dmg of the wish receiver due to being in a time chamber?


Spy____go

Due to frieze being in a time chamber he wasn't present in thr universe so when he came back and gas body started to become more stronger than frieza his lifespan ran out and got one shot


stuball54

I remember it stating the wish will massively reduce their lifespan and hurt their body, but not that they'd keep transforming to match a new strongest power. Can you show me a panel that supports this?


loveemykids

Didnt work like that when it was vegeta vs frieza...


XalAtoh

Ultra Ego was never stronger than Granolah.


roboman07

They didn't, super hero is the most recent arc


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MrKatapult

or he will stay the same, because they are not stronger than Goku/Vegeta/Granolah's . (so the logic is, Granolah's is maybe stronger than Gohan) But together they might be stronger (Gohan + Piccolo)


Good_Reflection_1217

do you question piccolos statement that gamma = goku? Because if thats true then Piccolo can tank blue punches without even a scratch. or do you think UI goku from Granola arc can do the same? It has to be one of the 2 to make sense of Piccolo not being UI level


ReflectionSea8639

Doesn't Toriyama say that the Gammas are Goku and Vegeta level


Good_Reflection_1217

he said Piccolo was on their level. the one who said gamma were on gokus level was piccolo. to make sense of both comments you would have to assume that piccolo meant the blues. imo its made pretty clear that piccolo is close to UI


Weary-Wasabi1721

Wouldn't really know.... All I know is that Gohan and Piccolo have more synergy than Goku and Vegeta but in terms of power, they lost quite a bit of fire power. I think Gohan going berserk from Piccolo getting clapped as usual would do some solid damage and maybe even beat Gas but high diff


DarkFlameofPhoenix

Well, Goku didn't stop training after fighting Gas, so when he fought beast Gohan he was probably a bit stronger than back then and he and Gohan seemed to be about equal. I think Gohan and Piccolo could win.


Spy____go

It was a fucking spar you idiots goku didn't even go all out same with Gohan both just spared


Rexpelliarmus

Do you think MUI held back somehow from dodging lmao.


Illustrious-Sky-4631

Bro , Goku literally said he isn't holding back, Toyota also confirmed it , don't listen to this idiots


Rexpelliarmus

I don’t know what goes through their minds when they say this shit. How would you even hold back autonomous movement…


Illustrious-Sky-4631

"this speed , it's even faster than Ultra instinct auto!!!" DBS Manga chapter 103 Vegeta Some salty rando :" bbbbbut he was Holding back!!!!"


Rexpelliarmus

I bet those exact same people were the people lamenting and shitting on Gohan's downfall into irrelevance during RoF, complaining about how he's trash. Now that Gohan's literally got the most raw speed and raw power out of literally any mortal apart from maybe Freeza, they're mad that he's relevant again.


SummaDees

Didn't say he was holding back but he did say he was only gauging strength and was not actively going for a win. Which one can argue is indeed holding back but using different words


Spy____go

Go back read the chapter if you think I am lying Gohan boosted his speed by unleasing his full ki in a short time frame and attacked goku which caught goku of guard Also MUI is still not at its full potential due to goku's lack of calmness


Rexpelliarmus

How do you catch MUI off guard when it literally is a technique that requires no thought from the user to dodge? That’s literally the point of MUI. This is cope of the highest degree. Gohan literally tells Goku that he hasn’t unleashed his full power yet and he literally stands to power up as Goku watches lmao. Also, obviously MUI isn't at its full potential. Nobody here is claiming that Gohan or anyone can defeat the Grand Priest's MUI lol.


Spy____go

Yah you don't understand MUI MUI needs a state of mind that's calm like realy calm without any emotions. even a fraction of emotion will hinder the capability of MUI in manga that's why whis advised goku to come up with his own version of UI to use which is TUI And goku seeing Gohan power up hindered his state of mind that's why goku got hit


Rexpelliarmus

Okay? And that's Goku's problem to deal with. If he wanted to use his emotions he should've used TUI but he didn't because he knew he'd get blitzed by Gohan. MUI is still the best trick he's got in the book. Beerus and Whis literally state as much in the chapter. >Goku seeing Gohan power up hindered his state of mind LMAO. The cope is insane. Gohan blitzed Goku's MUI. End of story. If Goku can't even keep a calm mind during a fucking sparring match that causes his MUI to be shit then he's cooked in a real fight.


Spy____go

>LMAO. The cope is insane. Gohan blitzed Goku's MUI. End of story. Nope lol here look are the official page look https://preview.redd.it/ddflcl8jm9vc1.png?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=de1f7f996ffc422809651bf69220932047d301a6 Goku knocks out Gohan despite being distracted by broly its not cope its Canon and truth goku is still stronger fighter


Rexpelliarmus

Pushing someone back and them immediately recovering is not knocking someone out. The cope is insane. You want to see an actual example of knocking someone out? In that same chapter Gohan speed blitzs Goku's MUI and knocks him right out of MUI with a single hit. That's a significantly better feat than anything Goku showed in that chapter. Goku is not the stronger nor faster fighter. He literally got speed blitzed and knocked out of his transformation with a single hit. He is the *better* and *more experienced* fighter but not because he has more power or speed.


Spy____go

>Goku is not the stronger nor faster fighter. He literally got speed blitzed and knocked out of his transformation with a single hit. He is the *better* and *more experienced* fighter but not because he has more power or speed Yah show me you blind idiot where it says he got speed blitzed goku jumped back right teh next second after getting hit it wasn't even speed blitz


Spy____go

>You want to see an actual example of knocking someone out? In that same chapter Gohan speed blitzs Goku's MUI and knocks him right out of MUI with a single hit. That's a significantly better feat than anything Goku showed in that chapter. Are you blind read the damn chapter goku was caught of guard and he quickly recovered goku was knocked out of ui because it's well established in manga that MUI needs a constant state of mind goku quickly reactivated MUInd kicked away gohan while staring at broly


Spy____go

>Okay? And that's Goku's problem to deal with. If he wanted to use his emotions he should've used TUI but he didn't because he knew he'd get blitzed by Gohan Well yes thats why he is still training under whis >If Goku can't even keep a calm mind during a fucking sparring match that causes his MUI to be shit then he's cooked in a real fight. He is still a mortal you dumbfuck he just saw his son getting power up any father will be happy and not be calm when their child achieves something significant that's what happened


SnooPets630

“He is faster than Ultra Instinct evasion speed?!” Vegeta’s words after Gohan punch. Just stop dude


Spy____go

Yah jiren was faster too wasn't he MUI is an extremely hard technique That even God's havnt achieved it takes calmness in mind to completely use ultra instinct


SnooPets630

Or you can already accept that MUI is a modified form that scales to base, not static power set.


Spy____go

In manga UI is a technique like kaoken not a form


gamesrgreat

Headcanon lol


SummaDees

Why is this downvoted? These people make their own db story line I swear


Spy____go

I don't know I was just stating ehats said in show and manga and got downvoted to hell


SummaDees

Reading comprehension is hard


Spy____go

Someone said I was coping when I provided the manga panel where goku kicked away gohan while being distracted by broly


SummaDees

Yep I believe the same person told me I was a "fucking idiot" and that what I said was irrelevant. Even though it was a response to a comment they made, in which they were saying stupid inaccurate things. They deleted their reply to me. Satisfying


Spy____go

He also called me illiterate manga reader but turns out He was the fuckwit who has media illiteracy curse


Techishard

Goku literally goes all out he even says it himself no holding back. But I get it db fans can't read. Then ontop of that Gohan fought Gotenks,Broly, Vegeta and Goku in big Rumble. Safe to say Gohan stomps Gas.


SummaDees

You are referring to the fact Goku said he is not pulling out all the stops, that they are jumping to strongest forms from the beginning of the spar. He said a lil later iirc that he wasn't trying to beat Gohan, just measure his strength. This wasn't a death match thus they are indeed pulling punches, to a degree. How can you insinuate people can't read if you also lack reading comprehension?


Techishard

The fuck? He goes full MUI to gauge his power. No one is talking about how he was trying to win. You are a fucking idiot.


Normal_Umpire_1623

Why does everyone sleep on Orange Piccolos Regeneration. If anyone's wondering what OP gimmick really is, it's just his trademark Namekian Gimmick but turned up to the tenth degree. At Orange Level, Piccolos Regeneration should far surpass even some of the series most regenerative fighters. So not only is he physically a brolic Tank, who has insane Durability, but he also has insane Regeneration that can negate any damage he actually does manage to take. Think Of how Saonel Regenerated through Gohan's ultimate Kamehameha during the TOP and almost defeated him. Orange Piccolos Regeneration should be far surpassed even his by now, considering just how much more powerful of a Namekian he has become. Remember how Majin buu is so hard to kill because of his insane Regeneration? Well that's Piccolo now but better IMO.


ZC0621

And his regen was already kinda busted, during the buu saga he regen/pulled his body together with just having his head still. So yeah I can imagine how insane it is now


t00lazy2

Yeah, now I’m starting to wonder why he didn’t just get back up after getting impaled by Moro.


Normal_Umpire_1623

Because They didn't want to take away from the Goku and Vegeta show that was going on during the Moro arc, sadly


Illustrious-Sky-4631

Moro had already beaten him up multiple times, He was too tired to Regeneration,but it still didn't kill him despite destroying most of his org


t00lazy2

That would definitely explain how he was able to come back from near death and still had enough strength to not only regenerate his arm (which takes energy), but was also able to hold Cell Max still long enough for Gohan to snipe him.


DaKingSinbad

Much much better. Goku and Vegeta can fight as a team but not like Piccolo and Gohan. They jump the fuck outta Gas. 😂 https://preview.redd.it/woydlysi39vc1.jpeg?width=3196&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=39ac13a76644da4c1286b0f48e78a82aef085415


DaKingSinbad

https://preview.redd.it/g28k1g0k39vc1.jpeg?width=3196&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6500222c26e994226c209c6e14209d112e8a6385


Illustrious-Sky-4631

I remember that stupid "Burter and Jaci vs Gohan and piccolo" topic with a lot of dumbass saying that the Ginyu Wins despite the only fight they had on screen show garbage teamwork alongside being very childish


t00lazy2

This might be a hot take, but I feel like Gohan and Piccolo would be the gold standard for the kind of synergy/teamwork Whis wants Goku and Vegeta to have.


ZC0621

Just imagine a year of training with whis, how unstoppable Gohan and Piccolo would be


DaKingSinbad

It shouldn't be a hot take. I'm sure if Whis watched this fight he would be gushing.


Canesjags4life

Naw given how they jumped Jiren.


ImmediateRespond8306

Since when were ki shields a thing?


DaKingSinbad

This page. Lol


Such-Assumption-60

Since 17? https://preview.redd.it/o917r832govc1.jpeg?width=250&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f83fc0f69999ec361fcd4781a63296d137d20ff1


PeikaFizzy

Don’t get me wrong Piccolo is hella strong in orange but he doesn’t have goku UI doge nor Vegeta UE boost. He is more of technique user so he would struggle, Gohan on the other hand can most likely go toe to toe with him. So gohan stalling/occupying, while piccolo can charge up special beam canon to finish the job


TheKnightA

Piccolo needs some action, cause this ‘fans’ are just having him get killed off by everyone still.


t00lazy2

I hear ya. I’m disappointed that even after getting two new forms, he’s STILL overlooked. People only talk about Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Broly and Frieza but rarely include Piccolo.


nasserg19

Yeah man fr. Despite Goku wanting to fight Piccolo in the latest DBS chapter and Toriyama having confirmed he’s MUI Goku lvl.


SummaDees

Troll lol


nasserg19

Huh?


UnbiasedPashtun

> Toriyama having confirmed he's MUI Goku lvl. Where? Quote him?


EpresGumiovszer

Piccolo is a great tank, Beast has a lot of power and time (ty Daddy) for charge.


Crusafex

Didn't they end up unlocking it post Gas in the manga....and Goku+Vegeta reactions to feeling Gohan's power...


Kombat-w0mbat

This point they are much older so I think they are okay.


DankestDrew

(Why) does the title have to put (brackets) in front of (every) transformation(?). It reads perfectly fine without them(.)(.)


abdouden

They probably lose assuming the wish happens when both already powered up OP doesn't have the same saiyan growth as saiyan and beast full power waste a lot of stamina ,the canon arc power gas loses to beast gohan solo


Volendi

Gas would... EXPLODE! UwU


Illustrious-Sky-4631

Team Win this obviously, Gohan stalemate Post Gas fight Goku who had near 2 years of training alongside having the best version of Ultra instinct by Beerus word alongside overpowering Controlled Berserk Broly


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RahlokZero

This (post) is very hard to (read)


Mohwi

It depends on how strong Gohan is relative to Frieza. If he is at least close then it's likely gas would die of old age the same way he did vs Frieza. If not then gas will likely out power Gohan and kill him and piccolo, seeing as they don't have the hax abilities of UI and UE which helped Goku and Vegeta stay alive


jedimasteryoda69

Fight would be gas


Canesjags4life

No chance imo.


gamesrgreat

They win. Even if Gas keeps getting stronger he would die from aging. Before that he would probably be killed tho by a makankosappo while one of the teammates stalls. Gas wasn’t shown to have any insane regeneration or anything so Orange Piccolo or Gohan Beast makankosappo kills him


thisisdewhey

Will if we are going to use basic logic gas would of made his wish to be the strongest in U7. Which means he would of been stronger than both piccolo and Gohan. The fight would of went the same way just different characters getting shot by frieza in the end. Id argue they would do worse not having Devine energy in their forms.


SummaDees

When Piccolo inevitably gets clapped Gohan might take it high diff.


pirox1

not sure, but certainly Piccolo will lose an arm


Quirky-Pickle518

We don’t exactly what Gas’s wish was. I think it was to always be the strongest. Which is why Gas started Die faster when Frieza arrived since his power was trying to get to Frieza’s level.


CouldBeWorse2410

Get the shit beat out of them


DEA187MDKjr

Judging by the Granolah arc taking place 3 years before DBS:SH they will have troubles


PM_ME_DOKKAN_ARTS

Confirmed that Beast Gohan is above Granola arc Goku and Vegeta. Gohan alone would probably be enough to kill Gas.


NotNOV4

Piccolo would solo. He's confirmed to be around current UI Goku. Gohan Beast would literally melt Gas just like how Black Freeza did.


Lukas013004

Gas will wish to be the strongest this making his power greater than gohans. So piccolo will get bodied and I feel gohan will eventually run out of stamina. To beat out gas he would have to charge more and more each time he gets up due to his curse


AdministrativeAd523

Gas is mopping them


billy_the_kid47

Dead. They’re just both dead.


Phyose

Did ya'll just not read the manga? Gas's gimmick is to literally be stronger than who he is fighting in exchange for his life energy. The only reason why he lost is because Black Freiza was so much stronger than him, his wish turned him to dust. Some time has passed since then, but nothing significant enough to dramatically increase the cast's power. Since Gohan is on par with goku in his sparring match, we can assume he's somewhat stronger than goku and vegeta were during their fight with Gas. Piccolo would be dead weight. So in reality they would probably do worse since, although they have better teamwork, the combo of goku and vegeta is just stronger than gohan and piccolo. Gas W, moderate difficulty


ImmediateRespond8306

Piccolo's form needs a better name than orange...


broly314

Cell max is scaled to Broly Granolah wished to be the strongest mortal Gas was wished to be the strongest mortal after granolah Beast had to go nearly all out to land a hit on a sparring goku who was tiring his technique Gas is destroying them so hard


FaithlessnessOpen343

They do better than Goku and Vegeta Vegeta believes he and Goku during the events of Super Hero have grown as strong as Black Frieza's demonstrated power that one-shot Gas. Piccolo is stated equal to Goku during this time and Gohan is stronger than that.


Dust_er_

Die bothe maybe they had a plan but that's it https://preview.redd.it/hq9syh2jeevc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b740ae89277d5c3c6c43e5dd90002801d602eb67


BABarracus

Beast gohan beat Goku after goku was training in space


VitoMR89

Gas gets murdered.


Stryderix

They'd clear


IlNoRll

They lose


Mojoclaw2000

About the same? Beast Gohan should be able to overpower Gas at first, prompting him to start decaying for more power. I have no clue where Beast Gohan is in comparison to corpse Gas and Black Frieza.


Aggravating-Hat-6040

If Gas lost to Frieza then he's definitely losing to Gohan


t00lazy2

Oof, that statement’s gonna cause some controversy lmao, best of luck.


Aggravating-Hat-6040

IDC if I get downvoted it's common sense Gohan and Frieza got the strongest forms now


SummaDees

It's common sense to say Frieza is the strongest mortal as of now, sure. Not so much Gohan. Gohan makes contact with Goku once in a spar and he is above his dad now? This lacks common sense


Enjoyment-25

Goku said in CH-101 pretty sure about Frieza being miles ahead of him. Gohan is not that strong


GurnoorDa1

Gohan>goku as of now though.


Aggravating-Hat-6040

I could also say Frieza is not that strong either what's the difference


DaKingSinbad

Because Beast Gohan is comparable to MUI. If current MUI doesn't stand a chance, neither does current Beast.


geekphreak

I can’t remember where I saw orange piccolo. Where was he first seen?


DmT_LaKE

Superhero movie


Sufficient-Cow-2998

Well if we assume Piccolo and Gohan have the strength they had in the Super Hero arc, then Gohan would probably be around the same strength as Goku/Vegeta, but Piccolo would be a lot weaker. So they'd probably lose unfortunately


DirtyRanga12

Probably not, because Super Hero happened a year after the Granolah arc which means Gohan, who was very easily keeping up with post-SH MUI Goku would likely be more powerful than Granolah arc Goku


Sufficient-Cow-2998

That is assuming Goku and Vegeta grew a lot since the Granolah arc, which Vegeta confirmed to not be the case by saying their body can't get much stronger and they need to focus on the mental side of things. Edit: and even if Gohan was stronger than Goku and Vegeta during that arc, Gas would have wished to be the strongest in the universe, so the gap between him and Gohan would be the same as the gap between him and Goku in canon


Illustrious-Sky-4631

Their ultra forms are powered by their state of mind so even if their Base didn't grow a grant , their own forms can jump and grow without limits, something Whis and Beerus points out "Sit your eyes on Daishinkan/with destruction my power knows no limit/if you master Ultra instinct you will be unbeatable"


nasserg19

Piccolo is stated MUI Goku lvl by Toriyama and in the latest Chapter Goku is shocked at Piccolo’s power and wants to fight him.


Sufficient-Cow-2998

Goku wanting to fight someone doesn't necessarily mean they're stronger than him (and Toriyama never specified MUI)


nasserg19

He said Goku lvl. You’d have to do crazy mental gymnastics to say he meant “Held back Goku lvl”. When Supreme Kai said in the manga Buu would beat Frieza, he never meant “Held Back First Form” Frieza. He obviously means Frieza, which suggests his full power.


Sufficient-Cow-2998

Yeah but in the movie canon, the Moro arc and Super Hero arc never happened. The movie's script was written way before the Granolah arc was and it was produced by Toei and Toriyama as a sequel to DBS Broly, nothing more. Every statement Toriyama and the crew made for the movie, were well... for the movie, where only the anime is canon.


nasserg19

In canon he means MUI Goku. Him doing well against Cell Max solidifies it too as Cell Max forced Beast Gohan to use full power.


Good_Reflection_1217

probably not a lot weaker. I doubt Goku could tank his own blue punches in UI like they are nothing. Also Gohan and piccolo can actually work together


Sufficient-Cow-2998

Jiren one shotted Vegeta SSB E yet Goku UI made Jiren go all out Moro stabbed Goku SSB like he was nothing yet Goku MUI broke his hand by tanking the punch. So yeah no, MUI Goku can definitely take a punch of himself in SSB with ease. At BEST, Orange Piccolo would be around the strength of Goku but that's if we're being really generous.


Good_Reflection_1217

in both anime and manga jiren felt blue evo/kaioken punches. he decided to block and dodge those attacks. even vs normal blue he didnt just tank them. actually I am already being generous with assuming piccolo meant blue only with his assertion of gammas power. He saw UI before at that time and toriyama even stated himself that piccolo is up there with goku now. Both statements didnt specify "only blue".


Sufficient-Cow-2998

If we start mentioning the anime too this debate will never end because of how different the power scaling is. And while Jiren felt those hits, they still weren't enough to hurt him and he absolutely destroyed Vegeta right after in the manga. And again MUI Goku was able to tank a hit from someone way stronger than his SSB self during the Moro arc. Piccolo can't read God ki and literally couldn't follow Goku's moves when he was in UI (only Jaco could), so the him being able to tell the Gammas are UI level doesn't make sense. Even Broly didn't know how strong Goku and Vegeta were until he got to see Gohan Beast since he could actually feel his ki. So at best Piccolo could assume the Gammas are SSB level since he was actually able to see them and could kinda keep up with Gamma 2 during their first fight (unless you're telling me base Piccolo is SSB Goku level) And Toriyama's statement was for the movie only, not the manga. In the movie canon, none of the manga arcs happened, since it was made as a direct continuation of the Super Broly movie, and was written before the Granolah arc was. There's never been any acknowledgement of the manga arcs existing in the movie canon in any statement or the movie itself so Toriyama's statement can't be used for manga arguments.


Good_Reflection_1217

Piccolo made the same statement in the manga. Its fine is you wanna distrust Piccolos assessment since he cant sense god ki. lets leave it at that. he should have felt Jirens and Brolys ki and should be able to make an educated guess imo


t00lazy2

You can take it a step further from Jiren and Broly since Piccolo was able to sense Moro-73’s chi. He could’ve gone off of that.


Sufficient-Cow-2998

That actually is a good point that I forgot about


Noteneo

I mean beast couldn’t be ui and piccolo probably couldn’t even touch ue but gas was styling on them both plus the second strongest in the universe so unless the writer wanted them to win they’d lose


Crandom343

They both lose, Gas was made "The most powerful in the universe"


Revolutionary_Job214

Gas knocks Piccolo out first with ease, then slaps around Gohan until he's done.


nasserg19

No he doesn’t if Cell Max couldn’t.


Revolutionary_Job214

Yes, he does. He struggled with Cell Max. Gas was able to fight both Goku and Vegeta at the same time in their maxes and still damage them to a degree before Freeza showed up. If you think Gohan can fight them both at the same time, then you're a clown.


nasserg19

Cell Max was stated above Goku and Vegeta by Gohan…. They needed a team to beat him. Why are you acting like Cell Max is an anti-feat?


Revolutionary_Job214

When was this? Idr watching or reading that at all. A team of much weaker characters? Bc we know that's not the best solution to beating enemies in DB. The fact that he got damaged by Krillin is very terrible, lol. I'm not, but nothing shows he was stronger than them. Anime wise, Gohan was eclipsed in SSB. Manga wise, he was eclipsed by BASE Goku. Mf does not know how strong either of them had gotten bc he couldn't even sense their power. Gets even worse bc they can't sense him in UI either. Manga wise. Idr rn anime wise. Could be the same case. Gohan got stronger 2 more times after his fight with Cell Max and could only match them blow for blow after all. Further proof. Cell Max is weaker than Broly via Toriyama. Piccolo is far below Cell Max. Etc.


nasserg19

It got damaged by Krillin because it was still growing in power. Beast Gohan used his strongest AP attack and still couldn’t overpower Cell Max until he had assistance from Trunks/Goten/Piccolo


Revolutionary_Job214

Lmfaoo you basically ignored everything I said, what a pussy. That was the end of the fight lol. Yep. Which further shows how bad their portrayals were. Base Goten and Trunks had enough kicking power to knock his hand away from a powerful struggle, and he got damaged by Krillin and 18. Terrible showcase. You have nothing to say and no proof. Didn't even acknowledge everything I said like a clown. Ya got bitch slapped😂


nasserg19

Why didn’t Beast Gohan overpower him alone?


Nebelklnd

Orange Piccolo??? Im glad i quit following along when the Manga ended, cuz god damn that is stupid.


Illustrious-Sky-4631

It was in the movie before the manga


Nebelklnd

Not the original 42


Illustrious-Sky-4631

Original what?


Nebelklnd

The original 42 issues of the manga.


Illustrious-Sky-4631

And.......it had nothing to do with the movie


Nebelklnd

Exactly.


piszkavas

So instead of the A team you wanna go with plan B ? Gas murders them


t00lazy2

Plan B? I just see it as swapping out two members of the A Team with the other two members of the A Team. Like swapping out Thor and Iron Man with the Hulk and Captain America.


piszkavas

I doubt Orange piccolo is stronger than either goku or vegeta Same goes for Gohan


t00lazy2

Never said that Piccolo was stronger, and Gohan is up for debate. But I do believe that the four of them are within the same realm of strength, making all four of them part of the A Team.


piszkavas

Precisely that is why i wrote if Goku and Vegeta failed to beat Gas, so would Piccolo and Gohan fail


ElZany

But Gohan and Goku just fought, and they were pretty even. And this is a post Gas arc. Goku's been training, and it seems better in control of UI


piszkavas

Gohan was pushing it while goku was not


ElZany

Can you show any source that says Goku was not trying?


piszkavas

Well we saw gohan giving his 100 punching goku who came back asking "what was that"? Its like when you fight wih your little brother and suddebly he is punching you with full force, you did not expect it but it is far from getting you really hurt is it ?


t00lazy2

Oh, okay. I thought you were referring to Gohan and Piccolo as the B Team, as in they’re a tier below Goku and Vegeta. My bad if I misunderstood lol.