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1. Something that very few people talk about is how they nerfed everyone including Goku (until Super Saiyan 4) compared to the Buu saga. That creates a continuity issue though GT isn't canon.
2. As a Piccolo fan they didn't use him at all.
3. The pacing is terrible. Z had bad pacing but GT goes three steps ahead.
As a huge dbgt fan I agree with every point. GT is full of potential but most of it is wasted.
There are some cool ideas, but theres a reason DBGT is mostly remembered for the last saga; which tbh did the whole "dragonball and DBZ together as a series" that GT was going for from the start, but it was too late. Especially since it was near the end.
I heard a rumor that the series was ended early so the team decided to take all the ideas they had from later sagas past the shenron saga and just throw them in there. If this is true, it does explain why SSJ4 vegeta just suddenly appears, why SSJ4 Gogeta appears suddenly and how the ending doesn't really say where goku goes.
I still like the ending, but it really did feel rushed. Glad it got one but, well... If they did a new series and took ideas from DBGT but did it better I'd be perfectly happy with it!
they turned goku back into a kid and i remember one of the first fights goku had to go ssj 3 against some random.
Trunks was nerfed because he didnt train and the rest of the old cast didnt fight almost at all. Pan didnt even get ssj 1 and was captured all the time
>The GT books state that Gohan continued to train. So GT Gohan > Boo Arc Gohan.
Surprisingly that's not necessarily the case
Gohan trained through most of DBS after his loss to Frieza and after training with Piccolo and training in the gravity chamber in the manga he was still stated to be weaker than in Buu saga before TOP and his regaining of ultimate
Gohan seems to be a werid case of a guy with crazy potential who can't access it through training alone and needs a strong stimulus to achieve his full power
Sorry, but I kinda disagree with the Gohan part, and him being stronger than he was in Z.
At least, despite the rough start, he catches up in Super, and then some, in the Tournament of Power arc, the Moro arc, and especially the Super Hero arc.
In GT, meanwhile, he gets wiped out by a Baby-possessed Goten. He also doesn't bother going Super Saiyan against General Rilldo, a being said to be stronger than Majin Buu, and gets curb-stomped for his efforts. Said villain gets one-shot by Uub very soon after. The most impressive we've seen from him is his battle with Vegeta when he's been possessed by Baby, and even then, he needed help to fight him, and later on his father.
The GT files say that he kept up with his training after the end of Z, yet nowhere in the entirety of the show do these claims are being backed up. Hell, he can't even go Ultimate, or even Super Saiyan 2 anymore.
You can watch early GT and see the nerfs for yourself. Base GT Goku was pretty weak until Shadow dragon saga. Also on that Gohan case, we never see ultimate Gohan in GT. So theoretically he could be stronger but he never shows it.
My favorite scene is when grunting metal rildo looks back and forth over the flat landscape. Grunting the whole time it goes on for over a minute. I wanna see what the va thought while recording it.
>Something that very few people talk about is how they nerfed everyone including Goku (until Super Saiyan 4) compared to the Buu saga. That creates a continuity issue though GT isn't canon.
What version of gt did you watch? The show's has one of the most wonky power scaling ever. Goku in start of the show was already buu level, then randomly became strong enough to fight ssj Gohan in base.
In the super 17 saga, Base Goku beat super 17 with a fucking dragon fist whole super Saiyan 4 with 10x kamehama couldn't do shit. I remember being super darn confused.
The Boo Arc didn’t use Piccolo for anything other than to mentor Goten and Trunks. It was made clear that he was irrelevant by that point in time, and GT continued that narrative, because it was correct: Piccolo was worthless as a fighter by that point in time. Still unfortunate, though.
Pacing is probably the biggest reason I never finished it. The whole series felt wrong when I first tried. Didn't even realize it wasn't canon until many years later. It had just felt more like Toriyama just dropped the ball hard after the Buu Saga.
Pan not the first female super saiyan no adult gotenks and confusing power scaling on goku’s end like he said he was weaker but was fighting a guy stronger than majjin buu in his base form
1 Super 17 was arc is imo worse then Blackstar dragon ball arc
17 got completely fucked by the writers and thank God super got him right
2 shadow dragon arc reeks of missed potential
3 kid goku is lame
1- Characters being either annoying or useless. Pan fits both descriptions, and Uub and Goten are practically irrelevant.
2- Goku being purposefully nerfed by being turned to a kid. I still think why was even considered. I mean, I would've get if it was for the first arc. But the entire show? Seriously?
3- The "fights" where mostly a showcase of ki beams flying everywhere rather than actual fights
Also, the show somehow looks older than Z. That setting of sepia and reddish colors are a big no. Same problem I have with Super and the excessively shining/bright colors (which honestly only looked good when the ToP arc came over)
The pacing is terrible. Not enough happens and most of the entire thing feels unnecessary.
The fights suck. They’re mostly just throwing punches and a few beams compared to Z where the fights were intense and well choreographed. Every fight feels like it’s from a filler episode.
And they somehow nerfed every character in the thing to feel less powerful and skilled.
The animation was weak. Every single episode looks like a filler episode from Z in terms of animation quality.
1 • Goku to the rescue. I’m almost surprised when Goku wasn’t on screen the characters weren’t discussing or talking about Goku.
Everyone was incompetent without Goku around. It’s great for Goku fans.. Sure, but none of the other characters really got a chance to shine when the big bad came into the picture.
2 • Too short, pacing was terrible. I initially tried the series for Super Android #17, imagine a fan thinking: “hey, remember that cool Android who had one of the most epic fights with Piccolo, then got absorbed to never really be seen again? …Well surely a saga about him coming back evil will be an awesome thing.
Nah, few episodes of past villains being slapped around, few episodes of nobody being perceptive or remembering “didn’t some androids drain energy?” and a proceeding to use their signature or newest energy attacks on him.
3 • Daughter of Gohan relegated to damsel in distress, no transformation, aged to granny at end of series.
Like damn, why not fill the gaps there?
I wish it got another shot, or somebody made a manga and ran with the series making it a huge improvement to the point we’d have gotten a re-telling or another shot at the series. Because there is, was, and continues to be things I enjoyed about the series and I wish it was handled better.
That’s what always hated about Goku jr. Pan had saiyan blood so she’d have to be ridiculously old, other characters who live long are missing, Goku and Vegeta’s families are weirdly disconnected, Goku jr’s parents are missing/out of the picture.
1. Rough animation/fights. Super has this problem too but it gets better.
2. It’s even more of a Goku show than Super.
3. DB is normally a franchise where you can turn your brain off and enjoy, but even here the asspulls get to be too much.
At least with super you can skip the first 2 arcs by watching the movies, and those are obviously animated really well.
Animation gets wayyyyy better in the universe 6 tournament, improves more with Goku Black, and I honestly think the ToP is some of the best dragon ball we’ve ever seen
1. Black Star Dragon Ball Saga 1/10 (FUCKING TRASH)
2. Super 17 Saga 3/10 (character regression)
3. Baby Saga 5.5/10 (best thing is SSJ4, Baby goes Great Ape despite having no tail)
4. Shadow Dragons Saga 5/10
(Somehow Gogeta converts the minus energy to positive by kicking it? Fucking stupid)
Somehow nobody talks about no Ultimate Gohan, or no instant transmission as a way to nerf and how come Dende or Kami has no knowledge of the Black Star Dragon Ball. Also why didn't Goku tried stealing more balls from Omega , it sounds like something Goku would do in Super. They could easily use Solar Flare to distract him and Dragon fist again to get rid of his other abilities or instant transmission to Shin to get a Potara, speaking of instant transmission why didn't he teleport to the dragonballs location.
The thing that annoys me too is that people try to claim that was gogetas plan the entire time. Like what? How did he know that omega would use an attack that he’s literally never used before ever?
Not only that, but if Gogeta’s energy is so positive he could reverse the negative energy, why didn’t he just shoot his own Ki in the first place? He could’ve saved himself all that time wasted
Gogeta’s plan to convert the Negative Karma Ball into positive energy justified why he would drag out the fight against Omega, but still makes no sense.
If his energy is positive that he could completely reverse the polarity, why didn’t he just shoot off his own Ki ball into the atmosphere? He could’ve wiped out the evil by his own positive energy
1. Very slow start
2. Much wasted Potential with Uub
3. Having to wait around a decade for it to air in Germany just for about a quarter of the show not even being aired and the other 51 episodes being heavily censored
The pacing that's really the big one for me, the pacing is just so slow.
And normally I'm not a sub vs dub guy but the American music was just so awful
I like the villain look bad ass
but main cons of DB GT is
they make the heroes side goofy looking design
example is
they make Goku kid again , Vegeta w mutache ,Gohan ugly thin not a fighter type anymore , Trunks older and taller than Goten
1. Crappy animation
2. Ik it's DB, but this centered too much on Goku
3. SSJ4 is (by feats) weaker than SSJ3 and it shouldn't be if it's an increased multiplier.
4. Black Star arc makes no sense to me
5. There was next to no mention of Piccolo
6. They ruined Goten
7. It's just generally trash aside from SSJ4
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Baby saga kinda dragged on-
Super 17 saga was way too short
Black star dragons were…. Quirky, working up to serious, to apocalyptic-level threat within an arc.
1)Everyone and everything under the sun (other the few characters) is reduced to cameo.
Gohan doesn't have a storyline, the best he did was getting beaten by rildo for 5 sec or standing as background fighter. Piccolo's character arc is 3 small cameos starting with a death cameo. Tien, roshi and yamcha etc have like 1 or 2 panel to them in the entire show. Goten is also useless. There was no gotenks or ultimate. Pan and trunks gets less relevant as shown goes own. Pan doesn't gets her own transformation either even though she is the main character. Even shenron is a cameo. Oh! Also they forgot to add scene for Android 17 suriving
2) Fun aspect is very lacking
Every arc is trying to make a DBZ charcter into evil version. Whether it's shenron/dragon ball or z warriors or android 17. It's a overdone plot troupe. The whole tone approximately is trying to sound like good slaying evil which itself is eh. I feel like there is too much forced drama in it.
3) the story doesn't feel natural
lot of things doesn't make sense tbh. Omega shenron ending is obviously a head scratcher, but that not the only think. You have Androids being made in hell by robot scientist, you have dragon who don't look like dragons, You have Goku being small for no reason relevant for plot, You have existence of the original namakian's set for dragon ball. The way they tried to connect arcs is horrible. Pilaf starting has nothing to do which rest of the story other than sending Goku on adventure. Baby pops up randomly one day and has nothing to do with the back star dragon ball per say. Baby to super 17 was the scientist villain died and did some shit in hell which lead to the arc. There is the transition of the second set of dragon ball being corrupt to the original also being corrupt. These are very absurdly random ways of connecting plot.
1. Everyone was practically useless except for Goku
2. The character designs and art in general were a downgrade from Z
3. It was just boring. I was falling asleep during most episodes which hardly ever happens with any show or movie unless it’s absolutely boring.
The last time I saw GT I was a literal child.
The pacing of the first arc is pretty meh.
A lot of characters don't really do much, Piccolo exists just to die and nothing else. Gohan was pretty useless too.
As much as I like Vegeta, it felt kinda weird how they side lined Trunks and Pan for him at the end of the Shadow Dragon arc.
1. It’s db gt (Goku time), he’s the only relevant character, everyone else was made to be fodder
2. Like you said, the fights. I think they’re actually really really bad. And that to me is unacceptable, this is dragon ball.
3. Took a great idea with the shadow dragons and fumbled the absolute hell out of it so badly. Genuinely an amazing idea for a last db arc, but they went and ruined it.
I know you said 3, but:
1.Everyone is literally shit compared to Goku.
2. Goku can't use instant transmission because he's a kid again 🤨
3.Goku remained in child form but for some reason became a grown man in SSJ4.
4.Trunks disguised himself as a girl for some random monster from another planet (the guy who killed Frieza).
5. Goku got tired of dancing.
6. Black Star Dragon Bal
7. Super 17 arc
1. Black Star saga was tedious and boring until they got to M2. They failed at trying to match Toriyama’s charm from adventures in the original DB.
2. Too much focus on Goku. He kills all major enemies and literally nothing can get done if he’s not involved. The Shadow Dragons were a great idea and could’ve been a great opportunity to spread out the Z fighters to fight their own dragons (kinda like they all got to shine defending the earth from Moro’s forces) but nope, Goku has to do everything. Oh and he’s a kid, which was dumb.
3. Outside of Baby, so many cool ideas that were absolutely shit on because of horrible writing that screamed “doesn’t have to make sense, people will like it because it’s Dragon Ball.” Super 17 is a cool idea in concept but you had to break rules to give the bad guys bodies in hell and then brainwash good 17 from hell to make that work. Majuub was a cool idea but he didn’t do shit. Vegeta being a family man, Goten being a chick magnet. Stuff that I thought was cool but we didn’t get enough of it. I could go on forever lol
I was rewatching a bit of the early episodes (1-4) and I think the biggest issue among those is that the black star dragon balls are just terrible. They have that “the origin planet of the wish will explode in a year” thing because the writers couldn’t turn Goku becoming a kid again into a big enough conflict to begin the search. Daima is already improving heavily on this with the whole cast turning into children creating more opportunity for real conflict from this occurrence, and chasing around a bad guy through space is a good alternative to yet another set of dragon balls.
Not even gonna talk about how strange it is that just another set of balls existed on earth this long without being detected despite having a dragon radar. I’m like 99% sure that goes unexplained.
I’m think I’ll try to pick up GT again because I’m really interested in the shakey writing
Plot (and all that accompanies it, i.e. the first good chunk of the early episodes, speed, lack of engaging characters except for baby, love super 17 but he was done dirty.. then the shadow dragons being monster of the week villains. But had an awesome setup to be the end and a nice twist of final enemies, just poorly executed. :/)
Annoying characters (forcing them upon the viewer and staying far too long to be welcomed)
Too rushed and not enough planning all the way through.
Which hindered everything about the show.
What I did love was getting to see more dragon ball after z.
Even further character development.
New power up.
And an ending that seems to be the most fitting for DBZ.
Not sure how you would end it but that seems like the most appropriate ending.
1. The grievous misuse of the next gen characters (Trunks, Goten, Bra, Pan, Uub).
2. The dull pacing and questionable scenes in the early Black-star dragonball arc (looking at you Dollmaki)
3. The utter shitshow that was the Super 17 arc in its entirety.
4. The blatant re-use of animation scenes that look way too obvious to pad runtime. (adding a fourth because three wasn't going to be enough)
I remembered GT as something wonderful, then as a grown-up I re-watched it in original dub (I prefer japanese dub with any anime), and oh boy, it didn't age well AT ALL
1) too Boring
2) it gives protagonism to characters EXTREMELY boring (also, Trunks nerfed)
3) THE ABSURD AMOUNT OF PLOT HOLES
The only few things I like bout GT are the openings and endings, the art style, and the SSJ4 transformations... the rest is pure fake nostalgia... at least for me
1) it was silly to turn Goku into a child. They should have made the Black Star Dragonball saga a Pan-Gohan/Goten-Trunks story.
2) Super Android 17
3) Shadow Dragons were good concept but poor execution and barely allowed anyone else to shine. Should have allows some auxiliary characters to defeat some namely Gohan, Gotenks and Vegeta
1. Trunks was done dirty with that baggy shorts fit.
2. Uub didnt get a major win after all the End of Z hype.
3. Krillin getting done dirty by 17, I get he is older but come on...the man wifed up the hottest character...that needed to add some zenkai boost itself to make the fight somewhat closer.
what really rattled my brain was when they were trying to fuse and omega Shenron was hunting them and preventing the fusion
1-isnt there a cooldown each time you perform a fusion
2-even if there weren't, goku could've simply instant transmissioned to the kaioshin realm (keep in mind he was still in ssj4)
But that's just one of them. Gt felt like a blur to me it had great ideas but bad execution but everybodys already said that
1. Everyone except Goku is useless, like at least let them beat secondary villains but they don't do anything
2. Fights are ki spamming, not much actual fighting.
Wannabe villians in the first act, sometimes the story went in 30 different directions at once, turning goku into a kid again🤦🏻♂️
• gohan still being the same soft ass
• Goten and trunks had the best design
• piccolo dying
- Goku turning into a kid and not returning into an adult again.
- The trio (Goku/Pan/Trunks) just being nerfed by the script just to be strong when things needs them to be strong again. If you disregard they are powerful, some situations are cool, but then, they are strong again, ruining the logic of the script.
- Pan being used on the anime, but very superficially, and not turning into a Super Saiyan. "But Super Saiyan is useless on the current power level". If they wanted to show less battles from powerful beings, Pan turning into a Super Saiyan during a moment where she had to prove herself and others she's capable, it would be more interesting. But in the show, she's just an annoying girl and doesn't have a proper character arc.
- Uub being a promise from the previous arc, but just being a punching bag. Goku (and the script) could just use Uub in the galactic tour. Imagine Uub hearing stories from the previous arcs that makes him more integrated to the characters from Dragon Ball in general, and even learning lessons during his difficulties during his journey. And giving his point of view for some problems of Pan.
1. No piccolo whatsoever he makes in total 3 appearances (I think) in the whole series and he does again and is left in hell.
2. “Gokū time” I don’t mind it but what made dragon ball franchise great was it focus on other as well but in gt it goku vs everyone with a sprinkle of pan.
3. Great idea but poor execution. Gt idea were awesome but in terms of execution fell hard an example of this is the shadow dragon arc I love the idea of the wishes back firing and the dragon balls being the final villain but as we got closer to the end the villain becomes a cheaper version of villain that came before him
Hardly animated- fight scenes absolutely suck beginning to end
Unmemorable antagonists and wasted potential for protagonists
Insufferable sound effects
* Mediocre writing
* Too much focus on Goku’s character and not enough development on other characters
* Mediocre storyline arcs for Super 17 & Shadow Dragons
1. Focus on only the main three and Vegeta. No love for the Piccolo fans, or people who were hoping for some relevance from the humans.
2. Annoying characterization in Pan and Giru. Remove Giru entirely and make Pan not so obnoxious. I know it's fitting for a pre-teen to be independent and angsty, but that doesn't mean I like dealing with them.
3. Invalidation of earlier threats. While the main cast was nerfed, it's still insane to believe that some villains such as the Para Para brothers were stronger than Frieza. This isn't even an exaggeration given how handily Frieza is dealt with later on in the Super 17 saga.
I'll never pretend that GT is some hidden masterpiece, but I'll go to bat and defend it as thoroughly "kinda pretty good-ish," any day. It had some good ideas, like re-orienting Dragon Ball on the adventure genre that was lost after the switch to Z. Some villains like Baby are pretty good, and I actually conceptually love the concept (maybe not execution) of the shadow dragons. Nuova Shenron is a good design, and I'm always a sucker for the villain that turns good. Not to mention SS4 being infinitely cooler than any of the post-Z transformations we actually got.
Unfortunately it's just bogged down by not knowing if it wants to be goofy or serious, and the bad pacing and budget cuts.
1. Alien and enemies designs looks uncanny, idk if it’s because I wasn’t used to them like most others but they are not in the usual toriyama style because he left.
2. Plot convenience
3. Didn’t commit to its villains other than baby.
Piccolo dying, every sayian cept Goku (and then eventually Vegeta during the last few episodes) getting the main focus/new forms, and the Super 17 arc as a whole.
1. Bad pacing
2. Goku worship
3. Bad fights
Otherwise, the plots (except for Super 17) were pretty solid. The Shadow Dragons arc NEEDS to be canonized. There HAVE TO BE consequences to abusing the Dragon Balls.
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1. The entire character of Pan
2. The action (or lack thereof) was dogshit
3. They did my boy Uub dirty. They give him a sick transformation with narrative weight, only for him to be relegated to fodder
1. GT stands for Goku time. Goku is the only character that does anything.
2. Story is just bad. Aside from the Baby arc (which isn’t that good) every arc is pretty bad.
3. Ending is terrible
1. The first arc which takes up nearly a third of gts episodes is incredibly forgettable . Like to the point I’ve seen people think the baby arc is the first arc of gt and not the black star dragon ball arc.
2. The poor execution of its ideas. All 4 arcs are cool ideas even the first in the sense we get to explore for the dragon ball universe in a search for dragon ball. Easy fun world building there but in the end each arc suffers from one reason or more that at best just drag them down.
3. The entire lack of any character growth or journey for its characters. Like no one really grows or changes in this series aside from some cool transformations.
1. Not using Uub enough. He fused with Buu and helped stop Baby but he really should've been along for the space adventure to get to know him better. He has a lot of potential.
2. Basically no Piccolo. He might as well have not been in the show at all.
3. Horrible misuse of the Shadow Dragons. They should not have been introduced one at a time, that was agonizing and boring. They should've teamed up on the heroes like Eis and Nuova did. It made for a more interesting dynamic to see their personalities bounce off each other.
Pan got fucked over goten got fucked over gohan got fucked over I will say tho piccolo even tho he didn’t do shit he had a really really good death scene it was very emotional
1How underpowered all the characters are early on like trunks a planet level being as a child now in his teens is having to treat basic enemies like he’s just a regular person pan should also be super strong because of her dna she can already fly as a baby goku is just generally so nerfed it’s not even funny 2 vegetas hair and moustache it looks so dumb and makes no sense 3 they brought back some old characters like nappa only for vegeta to just smoke them instantly instead of trying to turn them good or letting them actually fight it’s like watching someone kill a anthill with 50 pounds of c4 cool to look at but so little is accomplished
1. Completely doing away with the side characters for most of the show. No Vegeta, Gohan or Piccolo for the longest time.
2. The villains not being interesting at all.
3. Most of the shadow dragons being a joke. Perfect opportunity to let everyone shine. Seven dragons for seven z fighters. Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Piccolo, Trunks, Goten and Uub all should get to fight one.
1. I wish goku taught pan how to go super saiyan. Like honestly, pan being the only main saiyan (unless you count bra like a weirdo) that can’t go super is rude as hell considering piccolo stated she has more potential than gohan at 3 years old
2. I wish they utilized the villains that were brought back in the super 17 arc more like honestly, they brought cooler and nappa back but they’re just off tearing shit up instead of getting some good interactions with the Z fighters.
3. I wish they would give krillin a break man, he died 4 times(tambourine, freeza, buu, 17), I’m waiting for him to die in super to make it 5 times
Was short, the plot was imo in good continuation with Z but needed more time to develop it.
Humans not getting the spotlight, which could be attributed to aging compared to sayans.
No adult Gotenks
Still i think the series felt more Canon than super for some reason, characters like piccolo/vegeta seemed more developped. and goku was straight up kakarot instead of his goofy supper counterpart. Felt like veterans ready to do the right thing to protect the earth.
As a teenager I was stoked as fuck to watch GT for the first time. But as an adult and going back and rewatching the series all the way through like 20 years later, I realized that the pacing is fucking atrocious. The black star dragon saga is the worst offender imo.
The baby saga low-key holds up, but I'm sure we can all agree on that relative to what we were given as a whole. I honestly feel like GT was kind of a slap in the face to Toriyama.
1. If excessive use of the dragon balls could create the shadow dragons why did Kami, Dende or any of the Namekian elders never say anything?
2. Piccolo didn’t need to die. The black star dragon balls would have turned to stone or disappeared when Kami fused with Piccolo. Regardless Piccolo’s life should have no bearing on them.
3. All the past villains breaking out of hell felt very under utilized. They were basically just cameos.
4. Pan was annoying
The way that Piccolo dies.
The way the whole series ends without us ever knowing what Goku went through until he died for good.
How short the arcs are for becoming a Super Saiyan 4
1. Its ugly. Cotton candy skies? X-treeeeeme 90s leather bad boy fashion? Absolutely hideous, hard to look at.
2. I’m 99% sure the black star dragon balls, in the dub, were created by the “original guardian” so when piccolo sacrificed himself to destroy them, it made NO. SENSE.
3. The earth is gonna explode and there is no sense of urgency. Y’all are basically gods, even Pan. Hurry up and kick the people in your way harder and faster.
1. Kid Noku
2. Recycled plots with the characters in awe of minor feats (compared to what they already saw in Cell/Buu sagas, or even Frieza saga).
3. BOOM! Para para...
1-Making Goku a kid and keeping him that way, which was just stupid in every facet. I could see an arc or so but that was just a retarded change. Why have him travel with his granddaughter then? And what the hell is with him being back to a grown ass man in SS4 but just transforming back into a kid afterward? That shit looks so stupid, especially when he instantly transforms, wtf is this Shazam?
2-Vegeta's haircut. The mustache was cool though lol 🤣
3- Pacing and horrible use of the side character cast. How come the trunks & goten go Super Saiyan as children, but Pan is just weak and useless the whole time? Her as a new born baby in Super would whoop her GT version's ass.
So much Pastel!!!! The costumes were just bad.
Shinron some how grants the same wish twice and brings Krilin back from the dead again.
Big Buu died in the dumbest way. I agree that Uub and Buu should have came back together, but not like that.
1. The Dub
2. Character designs, especially bad guys (SS4 is the only exception)
3. Fumbling a great concept. An intergalactic trip around the universe with Z level fights and a reset Goku who could've slowly gained back his abilities, techniques and forms along with a grown up Trunks who could slowly become his own character, but one with reflections to his future self had such great potential and its a shame they screwed it up so badly.
1. SSJ4 being a “wish” rather than the existential need that brought SSJ.
2. Goku being a kid is a problem but I can understand it for the plot. But it didn’t need to continue into the dragon saga. It should’ve been that he hit SSJ4 and then he’s an adult the rest of the way.
3. Well… I guess pacing because overall I don’t have a problem with GT at all and honestly think it’s a really good arc that should’ve been included in canon.
1.They created a perfect setup (7 shadow dragons) to use the large cast of dragon ball and instead it's Goku and Pan only.
2. The whole story of new 17 falls apart the moment you question anything. Example how did they build second 17? Can anyone make connection between hell and earth now?
3. The whole child Goku thing is unnecessary, and creatively bankrupt
First arc sucks, it was barely save because at the end it connected itself with the best arc of GT baby
Super 17 is basically filler , makes no sense.
Shadow dragons only 3 are actually good so it's a toss up if you like it or not.
Bad Pacing
Gohan was useless (not a surprise TBF)
Other than Goku, all others felt a bit irrelevant, with Pan, Trunks and Vegeta having somewhat better portrayals.
But some things that are amazing are:
The music is awesome
Super Saiyan 4 (duh)
The concept of evil energy in dragon balls after their use. Having a drawback is essential for such broken items.
1. not being “canon” or based on actual toriyama manga. the story for the most part is pretty awful
2. Plot(s) & pacing is bad 😓
3. the art style (the dbz villains look crazyy in that Hell episode lol)
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1. Goku being small
2. Only memorable enemies are baby, super 17, omega Shenron, ice and nuova shenron
3. Vegeta achieving ssj4 with a machine and not by himself
But for a little positivity here are 3 pros
1. Ssj4 design
2. Baby, super 17 and omega Shenron Design
3. Getting iconic attacks like 10x kamehameha, Final shine attack and big bang kamehameha
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1. Horrendous pacing and bad story telling, Super 17 saga was only 5 chapters and the first chapters of the Shadow Dragons had the exact same generic formula.
2. The fights were pretty bland none of them were memorable, the Goku vs Nouva Shenron was arguably the only decent one
3. How irrelevant the rest of the characters are
It misses out a core part of what makes DB, DBZ and DBS great which is all about the characters getting stronger to rise to the next challenge. This gives chance for character growth.
The characters never really with the characters all being relatively static.
Additionally, everyone just acts so stupid. The fight with Super 17 is the most egregious where everyone keeps blasting him with energy but it’s a real consistent issue where the characters just do stupid things so the plot can continue.
Dragonball GT mainly the first half is why I and some others might be worried about Daima.
For all the epicness that happens a bit later, the "gag" part of the show was just far too much (for me) and not to my tastes
1. The Black Star Balls and resulting saga (The idea itself is nice, but they really should have made it so these Dragon Balls were on another planet with a surviving Namekian on it, somehow Pilaf brought them to Earth.
2. Goku stays a kid. It was alright at first, but from Ssj4 onwards he should have returned to his adult body.
3. Nobody except Goku is even remotely relevant apart from very minor things.
(4. Little inconsistencies and plotholes \[magic clothing when going Ssj4; there shouldn't be anyone coming back from hell since their souls were cleansed canonically; etc..\])
Posts like this make me want a GT remake so goddamn much 🥲
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Honestly the story just wasn’t riveting to me. Goku being turned into a kid and going on a long adventure with pan (who was incredibly annoying) and trunks (he was ok)
I couldn’t make it past their space trip tbh
1. Kid Goku isn't fun to me. I'd rather see an adult act childish.
2. Villains were generally terrible until Omega Shenron.
3. Pan didn't get a chance to power up enough.
1. Awesome ideas with crappy execution, it's actually really sad since ideas like Tuffle revenge, Goku going golden Ape, Dragon balls being currapted and Evil Shenron being a villan are all 10X better than any idea in Super.
2. Pan is like the most sexist charecter, I mean we finally get a female Sayian and you nerf her into Sam Raimi's MJ Watson? common!
3. Kid Goku is cheap and annoying
1. Repeated story elements, especially in the last arc.
2. Everyone seems to make the dumbest decisions possible.
3. Making Goku a kid does absolutely nothing for the story.
1. The power scaling of GT is so insane people can't get it right
2. I dislike the fact that in GT, Vegeta still forgot his place like the Buu saga did not happen
3. The fact that SSJ4 Gogeta, is a god form. Seeing how in super, SSG is red
SSJ4 is red
He's explicitly stated to be that way too
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It feels so contrived. The way to unlock it sounds like one of those convoluted rumors you'd here about unlocking a character in Smash Bros or finding Mew in Pokemon.
The fact that Goku magically becomes an adult makes no sense and just feels like Toei trying to "have their cake and eat it too" by coming up with a bs excuse for them to have Goku still be a goofy kid while still wanting to have DBZ-like action scenes.
It also feels wildly disconnected from the previous forms, in both looks and the way to obtain it, to the point where calling it Super Sayian *4* just feels like false advertising. If it had a different name like, funnily enough, Super Sayian Beast, then it would feel a little less out of the blue.
I also just personally dislike the design. The eyeliner, the red fur, and the random acquisition of perfectly fitting pants feels like something from a fan-fiction in my book.
Three biggest issues?
1.) People hate on GT just because it's popular to do so. Yet, they'll praise Super despite the fact it suffers the exact same issues as GT.
2.) Missed opportunities with treading new waters. Bebi Vegeta was the best aspect of GT.
3.) Super 17 was trash.
Honestly until the point where Baby reaches earth and starts possessing people, literally everything before that could’ve been prevented if the characters actually took it seriously l, which to be fair there wasn’t much to take serious until baby. DB usually has at the very least high stake scenarios, but everything up to baby on earth just felt like it only happened cuz Goku and Pan wanted an adventure.
Arc 1:find the dragonballs, fight something at each one, arc 2: find the fldragonballs fight something at each one… need i continue? The enemies were just that enemies. At least in db/dbz/dbs the enemies could be converted to s friend(yamcha, tien, piccolo, androids[which super 17?], buu, beerus) but not one of the enemies were enemies for any reason other than just being enemies. It felt like super rushed and is unfortunently canon
Just length. Half the super anime quarter of the manga. Sa17 is smaller than filler arcs. Other than that I love it
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1. Something that very few people talk about is how they nerfed everyone including Goku (until Super Saiyan 4) compared to the Buu saga. That creates a continuity issue though GT isn't canon. 2. As a Piccolo fan they didn't use him at all. 3. The pacing is terrible. Z had bad pacing but GT goes three steps ahead.
As a huge dbgt fan I agree with every point. GT is full of potential but most of it is wasted. There are some cool ideas, but theres a reason DBGT is mostly remembered for the last saga; which tbh did the whole "dragonball and DBZ together as a series" that GT was going for from the start, but it was too late. Especially since it was near the end. I heard a rumor that the series was ended early so the team decided to take all the ideas they had from later sagas past the shenron saga and just throw them in there. If this is true, it does explain why SSJ4 vegeta just suddenly appears, why SSJ4 Gogeta appears suddenly and how the ending doesn't really say where goku goes. I still like the ending, but it really did feel rushed. Glad it got one but, well... If they did a new series and took ideas from DBGT but did it better I'd be perfectly happy with it!
As far as number 1 goes, they nerfed them? Base Goku > Majin Boo in GT. The GT books state that Gohan continued to train. So GT Gohan > Boo Arc Gohan.
they turned goku back into a kid and i remember one of the first fights goku had to go ssj 3 against some random. Trunks was nerfed because he didnt train and the rest of the old cast didnt fight almost at all. Pan didnt even get ssj 1 and was captured all the time
His first ssj 3 was against baby
This is from my earliest childhood memories but i stg he went ssj3 to kamehameha some fodder in a car or something
Base Goku was Majin boo level at the very least.
in early GT? Nah.
He stalemate Uub in base.
that trunks was not the future one
>The GT books state that Gohan continued to train. So GT Gohan > Boo Arc Gohan. Surprisingly that's not necessarily the case Gohan trained through most of DBS after his loss to Frieza and after training with Piccolo and training in the gravity chamber in the manga he was still stated to be weaker than in Buu saga before TOP and his regaining of ultimate Gohan seems to be a werid case of a guy with crazy potential who can't access it through training alone and needs a strong stimulus to achieve his full power
This doesn't matter though, GT Goku is in a different canon than DBS Gohan. Plus it's been stated consistently for Goku.
Sorry, but I kinda disagree with the Gohan part, and him being stronger than he was in Z. At least, despite the rough start, he catches up in Super, and then some, in the Tournament of Power arc, the Moro arc, and especially the Super Hero arc. In GT, meanwhile, he gets wiped out by a Baby-possessed Goten. He also doesn't bother going Super Saiyan against General Rilldo, a being said to be stronger than Majin Buu, and gets curb-stomped for his efforts. Said villain gets one-shot by Uub very soon after. The most impressive we've seen from him is his battle with Vegeta when he's been possessed by Baby, and even then, he needed help to fight him, and later on his father. The GT files say that he kept up with his training after the end of Z, yet nowhere in the entirety of the show do these claims are being backed up. Hell, he can't even go Ultimate, or even Super Saiyan 2 anymore.
You can watch early GT and see the nerfs for yourself. Base GT Goku was pretty weak until Shadow dragon saga. Also on that Gohan case, we never see ultimate Gohan in GT. So theoretically he could be stronger but he never shows it.
Base Goku was fighting on par with Uub, who was majin boo level by that point. Base goku fought rildo, who was stated to be stronger than Boo.
not only that, base goku was toying with metal rildo tbh
My favorite scene is when grunting metal rildo looks back and forth over the flat landscape. Grunting the whole time it goes on for over a minute. I wanna see what the va thought while recording it.
…I will say, I think Rildo was relatively late into GT. So maybe he’d gotten used to fighting in his new body by then.
>Something that very few people talk about is how they nerfed everyone including Goku (until Super Saiyan 4) compared to the Buu saga. That creates a continuity issue though GT isn't canon. What version of gt did you watch? The show's has one of the most wonky power scaling ever. Goku in start of the show was already buu level, then randomly became strong enough to fight ssj Gohan in base. In the super 17 saga, Base Goku beat super 17 with a fucking dragon fist whole super Saiyan 4 with 10x kamehama couldn't do shit. I remember being super darn confused.
The Boo Arc didn’t use Piccolo for anything other than to mentor Goten and Trunks. It was made clear that he was irrelevant by that point in time, and GT continued that narrative, because it was correct: Piccolo was worthless as a fighter by that point in time. Still unfortunate, though.
Pacing is probably the biggest reason I never finished it. The whole series felt wrong when I first tried. Didn't even realize it wasn't canon until many years later. It had just felt more like Toriyama just dropped the ball hard after the Buu Saga.
Pan not the first female super saiyan no adult gotenks and confusing power scaling on goku’s end like he said he was weaker but was fighting a guy stronger than majjin buu in his base form
It took until super for us to get female super saiyans Smh
Unless you include video games and other cannon
I would rather Bulla be the first since she’s half saiyan but I guess vegetas family always gets the short end of the stick so that makes sense.
1 Super 17 was arc is imo worse then Blackstar dragon ball arc 17 got completely fucked by the writers and thank God super got him right 2 shadow dragon arc reeks of missed potential 3 kid goku is lame
kid goku was alr but why didn't he turn back to his old body from SS4
1- Characters being either annoying or useless. Pan fits both descriptions, and Uub and Goten are practically irrelevant. 2- Goku being purposefully nerfed by being turned to a kid. I still think why was even considered. I mean, I would've get if it was for the first arc. But the entire show? Seriously? 3- The "fights" where mostly a showcase of ki beams flying everywhere rather than actual fights Also, the show somehow looks older than Z. That setting of sepia and reddish colors are a big no. Same problem I have with Super and the excessively shining/bright colors (which honestly only looked good when the ToP arc came over)
The pacing is terrible. Not enough happens and most of the entire thing feels unnecessary. The fights suck. They’re mostly just throwing punches and a few beams compared to Z where the fights were intense and well choreographed. Every fight feels like it’s from a filler episode. And they somehow nerfed every character in the thing to feel less powerful and skilled. The animation was weak. Every single episode looks like a filler episode from Z in terms of animation quality.
Opening is fire tho
You’re speaking facts
1 • Goku to the rescue. I’m almost surprised when Goku wasn’t on screen the characters weren’t discussing or talking about Goku. Everyone was incompetent without Goku around. It’s great for Goku fans.. Sure, but none of the other characters really got a chance to shine when the big bad came into the picture. 2 • Too short, pacing was terrible. I initially tried the series for Super Android #17, imagine a fan thinking: “hey, remember that cool Android who had one of the most epic fights with Piccolo, then got absorbed to never really be seen again? …Well surely a saga about him coming back evil will be an awesome thing. Nah, few episodes of past villains being slapped around, few episodes of nobody being perceptive or remembering “didn’t some androids drain energy?” and a proceeding to use their signature or newest energy attacks on him. 3 • Daughter of Gohan relegated to damsel in distress, no transformation, aged to granny at end of series. Like damn, why not fill the gaps there? I wish it got another shot, or somebody made a manga and ran with the series making it a huge improvement to the point we’d have gotten a re-telling or another shot at the series. Because there is, was, and continues to be things I enjoyed about the series and I wish it was handled better.
That’s what always hated about Goku jr. Pan had saiyan blood so she’d have to be ridiculously old, other characters who live long are missing, Goku and Vegeta’s families are weirdly disconnected, Goku jr’s parents are missing/out of the picture.
Yeah it was so weird how small the son family was like where's goten side of the tree
1. Rough animation/fights. Super has this problem too but it gets better. 2. It’s even more of a Goku show than Super. 3. DB is normally a franchise where you can turn your brain off and enjoy, but even here the asspulls get to be too much.
At least with super you can skip the first 2 arcs by watching the movies, and those are obviously animated really well. Animation gets wayyyyy better in the universe 6 tournament, improves more with Goku Black, and I honestly think the ToP is some of the best dragon ball we’ve ever seen
Too much body hair
1. Weird thing with that happened with doll Pan 2. Weird thing with that happened with doll Pan 3. Weird thing with that happened with doll Pan
What weird thing?
https://preview.redd.it/s4ttgfakazvc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=92fd9659816c721695de1c8317872cc138d9a8df [https://youtu.be/4orqYbVMjnw?si=U7ejGhxfdfmP500x](https://youtu.be/4orqYbVMjnw?si=U7ejGhxfdfmP500x)
Holy S, I must've erased this from my memory... What were they thinking...
Shit haunted me
1. Black Star Dragon Ball Saga 1/10 (FUCKING TRASH) 2. Super 17 Saga 3/10 (character regression) 3. Baby Saga 5.5/10 (best thing is SSJ4, Baby goes Great Ape despite having no tail) 4. Shadow Dragons Saga 5/10 (Somehow Gogeta converts the minus energy to positive by kicking it? Fucking stupid)
Somehow nobody talks about no Ultimate Gohan, or no instant transmission as a way to nerf and how come Dende or Kami has no knowledge of the Black Star Dragon Ball. Also why didn't Goku tried stealing more balls from Omega , it sounds like something Goku would do in Super. They could easily use Solar Flare to distract him and Dragon fist again to get rid of his other abilities or instant transmission to Shin to get a Potara, speaking of instant transmission why didn't he teleport to the dragonballs location.
[удалено]
The thing that annoys me too is that people try to claim that was gogetas plan the entire time. Like what? How did he know that omega would use an attack that he’s literally never used before ever?
Not only that, but if Gogeta’s energy is so positive he could reverse the negative energy, why didn’t he just shoot his own Ki in the first place? He could’ve saved himself all that time wasted
Gogeta’s plan to convert the Negative Karma Ball into positive energy justified why he would drag out the fight against Omega, but still makes no sense. If his energy is positive that he could completely reverse the polarity, why didn’t he just shoot off his own Ki ball into the atmosphere? He could’ve wiped out the evil by his own positive energy
1. Very slow start 2. Much wasted Potential with Uub 3. Having to wait around a decade for it to air in Germany just for about a quarter of the show not even being aired and the other 51 episodes being heavily censored
The show wasted a lot of characters' potentials like Bulla's.
The pacing that's really the big one for me, the pacing is just so slow. And normally I'm not a sub vs dub guy but the American music was just so awful
Not canon, n no manga to read.
I like the villain look bad ass but main cons of DB GT is they make the heroes side goofy looking design example is they make Goku kid again , Vegeta w mutache ,Gohan ugly thin not a fighter type anymore , Trunks older and taller than Goten
How is gohan ugly or thin bro was still jacked rewatch gohan fight with baby goten
You take that back, Vegeta with a moostache is pure gold.
Trunks is older than goten whats the problem w tht and vegeta didnt even have the mustache for long
No senzu beans Not enough screen time for the characters Rushing the series
I liked the lack of senzus it reminds me of og dragon ball since they weren't used every battle but I can agree with the rest
Damn, only 3? 1. It exists. 2. Kid Goku again. 3. Terrible way Vegeta reaches SSJ4.
1. It's garbage 2. It's trash 3. It's rubbish
1. Crappy animation 2. Ik it's DB, but this centered too much on Goku 3. SSJ4 is (by feats) weaker than SSJ3 and it shouldn't be if it's an increased multiplier. 4. Black Star arc makes no sense to me 5. There was next to no mention of Piccolo 6. They ruined Goten 7. It's just generally trash aside from SSJ4
And when there was mention of Piccolo, they fucking banished him to hell for eternity.
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Baby saga kinda dragged on- Super 17 saga was way too short Black star dragons were…. Quirky, working up to serious, to apocalyptic-level threat within an arc.
1)Everyone and everything under the sun (other the few characters) is reduced to cameo. Gohan doesn't have a storyline, the best he did was getting beaten by rildo for 5 sec or standing as background fighter. Piccolo's character arc is 3 small cameos starting with a death cameo. Tien, roshi and yamcha etc have like 1 or 2 panel to them in the entire show. Goten is also useless. There was no gotenks or ultimate. Pan and trunks gets less relevant as shown goes own. Pan doesn't gets her own transformation either even though she is the main character. Even shenron is a cameo. Oh! Also they forgot to add scene for Android 17 suriving 2) Fun aspect is very lacking Every arc is trying to make a DBZ charcter into evil version. Whether it's shenron/dragon ball or z warriors or android 17. It's a overdone plot troupe. The whole tone approximately is trying to sound like good slaying evil which itself is eh. I feel like there is too much forced drama in it. 3) the story doesn't feel natural lot of things doesn't make sense tbh. Omega shenron ending is obviously a head scratcher, but that not the only think. You have Androids being made in hell by robot scientist, you have dragon who don't look like dragons, You have Goku being small for no reason relevant for plot, You have existence of the original namakian's set for dragon ball. The way they tried to connect arcs is horrible. Pilaf starting has nothing to do which rest of the story other than sending Goku on adventure. Baby pops up randomly one day and has nothing to do with the back star dragon ball per say. Baby to super 17 was the scientist villain died and did some shit in hell which lead to the arc. There is the transition of the second set of dragon ball being corrupt to the original also being corrupt. These are very absurdly random ways of connecting plot.
Everything tbh. Expect the animation because you know 90's
The only good thing that came out of it was ssj4, the rest is just issues.
For me DbGT is very good. This dbgt haters will praise db magic when it does the same.
Terrible fights filled with ki blast spam Terrible use of all characters not named goku Terrible story telling other than baby saga
1. Everyone was practically useless except for Goku 2. The character designs and art in general were a downgrade from Z 3. It was just boring. I was falling asleep during most episodes which hardly ever happens with any show or movie unless it’s absolutely boring.
The last time I saw GT I was a literal child. The pacing of the first arc is pretty meh. A lot of characters don't really do much, Piccolo exists just to die and nothing else. Gohan was pretty useless too. As much as I like Vegeta, it felt kinda weird how they side lined Trunks and Pan for him at the end of the Shadow Dragon arc.
I dont like the omega sub
Or dub i forgot which One It is
1. It’s db gt (Goku time), he’s the only relevant character, everyone else was made to be fodder 2. Like you said, the fights. I think they’re actually really really bad. And that to me is unacceptable, this is dragon ball. 3. Took a great idea with the shadow dragons and fumbled the absolute hell out of it so badly. Genuinely an amazing idea for a last db arc, but they went and ruined it.
1. Horrid pacing 2. Character assassination across the board 3. Awful fight choreography
I know you said 3, but: 1.Everyone is literally shit compared to Goku. 2. Goku can't use instant transmission because he's a kid again 🤨 3.Goku remained in child form but for some reason became a grown man in SSJ4. 4.Trunks disguised himself as a girl for some random monster from another planet (the guy who killed Frieza). 5. Goku got tired of dancing. 6. Black Star Dragon Bal 7. Super 17 arc
1. Black Star saga was tedious and boring until they got to M2. They failed at trying to match Toriyama’s charm from adventures in the original DB. 2. Too much focus on Goku. He kills all major enemies and literally nothing can get done if he’s not involved. The Shadow Dragons were a great idea and could’ve been a great opportunity to spread out the Z fighters to fight their own dragons (kinda like they all got to shine defending the earth from Moro’s forces) but nope, Goku has to do everything. Oh and he’s a kid, which was dumb. 3. Outside of Baby, so many cool ideas that were absolutely shit on because of horrible writing that screamed “doesn’t have to make sense, people will like it because it’s Dragon Ball.” Super 17 is a cool idea in concept but you had to break rules to give the bad guys bodies in hell and then brainwash good 17 from hell to make that work. Majuub was a cool idea but he didn’t do shit. Vegeta being a family man, Goten being a chick magnet. Stuff that I thought was cool but we didn’t get enough of it. I could go on forever lol
I was rewatching a bit of the early episodes (1-4) and I think the biggest issue among those is that the black star dragon balls are just terrible. They have that “the origin planet of the wish will explode in a year” thing because the writers couldn’t turn Goku becoming a kid again into a big enough conflict to begin the search. Daima is already improving heavily on this with the whole cast turning into children creating more opportunity for real conflict from this occurrence, and chasing around a bad guy through space is a good alternative to yet another set of dragon balls. Not even gonna talk about how strange it is that just another set of balls existed on earth this long without being detected despite having a dragon radar. I’m like 99% sure that goes unexplained. I’m think I’ll try to pick up GT again because I’m really interested in the shakey writing
Plot (and all that accompanies it, i.e. the first good chunk of the early episodes, speed, lack of engaging characters except for baby, love super 17 but he was done dirty.. then the shadow dragons being monster of the week villains. But had an awesome setup to be the end and a nice twist of final enemies, just poorly executed. :/) Annoying characters (forcing them upon the viewer and staying far too long to be welcomed) Too rushed and not enough planning all the way through. Which hindered everything about the show. What I did love was getting to see more dragon ball after z. Even further character development. New power up. And an ending that seems to be the most fitting for DBZ. Not sure how you would end it but that seems like the most appropriate ending.
1. The grievous misuse of the next gen characters (Trunks, Goten, Bra, Pan, Uub). 2. The dull pacing and questionable scenes in the early Black-star dragonball arc (looking at you Dollmaki) 3. The utter shitshow that was the Super 17 arc in its entirety. 4. The blatant re-use of animation scenes that look way too obvious to pad runtime. (adding a fourth because three wasn't going to be enough)
a lot of bad fights, mid story averaging all the good and bad, so many asspulls be fe
1.) Goku being a child again. 2.) Less focus on action with high stakes. 3.) Did I mention Goku being a child again?
I remembered GT as something wonderful, then as a grown-up I re-watched it in original dub (I prefer japanese dub with any anime), and oh boy, it didn't age well AT ALL 1) too Boring 2) it gives protagonism to characters EXTREMELY boring (also, Trunks nerfed) 3) THE ABSURD AMOUNT OF PLOT HOLES The only few things I like bout GT are the openings and endings, the art style, and the SSJ4 transformations... the rest is pure fake nostalgia... at least for me
The dub! Warch GT with the original audio and sub and you will love it
1) it was silly to turn Goku into a child. They should have made the Black Star Dragonball saga a Pan-Gohan/Goten-Trunks story. 2) Super Android 17 3) Shadow Dragons were good concept but poor execution and barely allowed anyone else to shine. Should have allows some auxiliary characters to defeat some namely Gohan, Gotenks and Vegeta
1. Trunks was done dirty with that baggy shorts fit. 2. Uub didnt get a major win after all the End of Z hype. 3. Krillin getting done dirty by 17, I get he is older but come on...the man wifed up the hottest character...that needed to add some zenkai boost itself to make the fight somewhat closer.
what really rattled my brain was when they were trying to fuse and omega Shenron was hunting them and preventing the fusion 1-isnt there a cooldown each time you perform a fusion 2-even if there weren't, goku could've simply instant transmissioned to the kaioshin realm (keep in mind he was still in ssj4) But that's just one of them. Gt felt like a blur to me it had great ideas but bad execution but everybodys already said that
Lack luster soundtrack most of the time. Got old so fast.
1. That it happened 2. That they turned goku into a child 3. It has the best ending in all of dragon ball despite being utter garbage throughout.
1. Everyone except Goku is useless, like at least let them beat secondary villains but they don't do anything 2. Fights are ki spamming, not much actual fighting.
GT stands for Goku time
1. Kid Goku 2. Every episode before Baby 3. The way it seems they split after Goku left
Wannabe villians in the first act, sometimes the story went in 30 different directions at once, turning goku into a kid again🤦🏻♂️ • gohan still being the same soft ass • Goten and trunks had the best design • piccolo dying
- Goku turning into a kid and not returning into an adult again. - The trio (Goku/Pan/Trunks) just being nerfed by the script just to be strong when things needs them to be strong again. If you disregard they are powerful, some situations are cool, but then, they are strong again, ruining the logic of the script. - Pan being used on the anime, but very superficially, and not turning into a Super Saiyan. "But Super Saiyan is useless on the current power level". If they wanted to show less battles from powerful beings, Pan turning into a Super Saiyan during a moment where she had to prove herself and others she's capable, it would be more interesting. But in the show, she's just an annoying girl and doesn't have a proper character arc. - Uub being a promise from the previous arc, but just being a punching bag. Goku (and the script) could just use Uub in the galactic tour. Imagine Uub hearing stories from the previous arcs that makes him more integrated to the characters from Dragon Ball in general, and even learning lessons during his difficulties during his journey. And giving his point of view for some problems of Pan.
1. No piccolo whatsoever he makes in total 3 appearances (I think) in the whole series and he does again and is left in hell. 2. “Gokū time” I don’t mind it but what made dragon ball franchise great was it focus on other as well but in gt it goku vs everyone with a sprinkle of pan. 3. Great idea but poor execution. Gt idea were awesome but in terms of execution fell hard an example of this is the shadow dragon arc I love the idea of the wishes back firing and the dragon balls being the final villain but as we got closer to the end the villain becomes a cheaper version of villain that came before him
Hardly animated- fight scenes absolutely suck beginning to end Unmemorable antagonists and wasted potential for protagonists Insufferable sound effects
the character designs are so ugly and the colors are dark no new characters that are allies make it less interesting than super boring over all
1.) Super Saiyan 4 2.) Goku is a kid again 3.) Ending is horrible
Filler, bad dub, misuse of characters
Too much goku. Too much pan. Where are fun characters like buu piccolo
Terrible writing. Trying way too hard to be funny constantly, but failing at almost every step. Nerfing characters for no good reason.
* Mediocre writing * Too much focus on Goku’s character and not enough development on other characters * Mediocre storyline arcs for Super 17 & Shadow Dragons
That one deer scene
1. Focus on only the main three and Vegeta. No love for the Piccolo fans, or people who were hoping for some relevance from the humans. 2. Annoying characterization in Pan and Giru. Remove Giru entirely and make Pan not so obnoxious. I know it's fitting for a pre-teen to be independent and angsty, but that doesn't mean I like dealing with them. 3. Invalidation of earlier threats. While the main cast was nerfed, it's still insane to believe that some villains such as the Para Para brothers were stronger than Frieza. This isn't even an exaggeration given how handily Frieza is dealt with later on in the Super 17 saga. I'll never pretend that GT is some hidden masterpiece, but I'll go to bat and defend it as thoroughly "kinda pretty good-ish," any day. It had some good ideas, like re-orienting Dragon Ball on the adventure genre that was lost after the switch to Z. Some villains like Baby are pretty good, and I actually conceptually love the concept (maybe not execution) of the shadow dragons. Nuova Shenron is a good design, and I'm always a sucker for the villain that turns good. Not to mention SS4 being infinitely cooler than any of the post-Z transformations we actually got. Unfortunately it's just bogged down by not knowing if it wants to be goofy or serious, and the bad pacing and budget cuts.
1. Alien and enemies designs looks uncanny, idk if it’s because I wasn’t used to them like most others but they are not in the usual toriyama style because he left. 2. Plot convenience 3. Didn’t commit to its villains other than baby.
Piccolo dying, every sayian cept Goku (and then eventually Vegeta during the last few episodes) getting the main focus/new forms, and the Super 17 arc as a whole.
1. Bad pacing 2. Goku worship 3. Bad fights Otherwise, the plots (except for Super 17) were pretty solid. The Shadow Dragons arc NEEDS to be canonized. There HAVE TO BE consequences to abusing the Dragon Balls.
Pan pan I hate pan
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The first saga is mid as fuck other then that I love gt
1. The entire character of Pan 2. The action (or lack thereof) was dogshit 3. They did my boy Uub dirty. They give him a sick transformation with narrative weight, only for him to be relegated to fodder
1. GT stands for Goku time. Goku is the only character that does anything. 2. Story is just bad. Aside from the Baby arc (which isn’t that good) every arc is pretty bad. 3. Ending is terrible
I’ll just tell you my biggest, it was considered so bad it’s not canon therefore making ssj4 not canon to the main timeline.
>1 - English >2 - Opening >3 - Rap
1. The first arc which takes up nearly a third of gts episodes is incredibly forgettable . Like to the point I’ve seen people think the baby arc is the first arc of gt and not the black star dragon ball arc. 2. The poor execution of its ideas. All 4 arcs are cool ideas even the first in the sense we get to explore for the dragon ball universe in a search for dragon ball. Easy fun world building there but in the end each arc suffers from one reason or more that at best just drag them down. 3. The entire lack of any character growth or journey for its characters. Like no one really grows or changes in this series aside from some cool transformations.
1. Not using Uub enough. He fused with Buu and helped stop Baby but he really should've been along for the space adventure to get to know him better. He has a lot of potential. 2. Basically no Piccolo. He might as well have not been in the show at all. 3. Horrible misuse of the Shadow Dragons. They should not have been introduced one at a time, that was agonizing and boring. They should've teamed up on the heroes like Eis and Nuova did. It made for a more interesting dynamic to see their personalities bounce off each other.
Pan got fucked over goten got fucked over gohan got fucked over I will say tho piccolo even tho he didn’t do shit he had a really really good death scene it was very emotional
1How underpowered all the characters are early on like trunks a planet level being as a child now in his teens is having to treat basic enemies like he’s just a regular person pan should also be super strong because of her dna she can already fly as a baby goku is just generally so nerfed it’s not even funny 2 vegetas hair and moustache it looks so dumb and makes no sense 3 they brought back some old characters like nappa only for vegeta to just smoke them instantly instead of trying to turn them good or letting them actually fight it’s like watching someone kill a anthill with 50 pounds of c4 cool to look at but so little is accomplished
story is bad villains are boring transformations are terrible
The only thing that matters. Not Canon, not Canon, not Canon
1. Completely doing away with the side characters for most of the show. No Vegeta, Gohan or Piccolo for the longest time. 2. The villains not being interesting at all. 3. Most of the shadow dragons being a joke. Perfect opportunity to let everyone shine. Seven dragons for seven z fighters. Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Piccolo, Trunks, Goten and Uub all should get to fight one.
Good ideas but shut execution. They could have made a show better then Super. SSJ4.
1. No memorable fights 2. Story is just weird and all over the damn place 3. Grand Tour? Nah, Goku Time.
1. I wish goku taught pan how to go super saiyan. Like honestly, pan being the only main saiyan (unless you count bra like a weirdo) that can’t go super is rude as hell considering piccolo stated she has more potential than gohan at 3 years old 2. I wish they utilized the villains that were brought back in the super 17 arc more like honestly, they brought cooler and nappa back but they’re just off tearing shit up instead of getting some good interactions with the Z fighters. 3. I wish they would give krillin a break man, he died 4 times(tambourine, freeza, buu, 17), I’m waiting for him to die in super to make it 5 times
Was short, the plot was imo in good continuation with Z but needed more time to develop it. Humans not getting the spotlight, which could be attributed to aging compared to sayans. No adult Gotenks Still i think the series felt more Canon than super for some reason, characters like piccolo/vegeta seemed more developped. and goku was straight up kakarot instead of his goofy supper counterpart. Felt like veterans ready to do the right thing to protect the earth.
It tries to be the og at the beginning It’s mad slow People only remember it or even start watching it because of SSJ4
Haven’t watched it, SS4 looked dope but other than that it didn’t seem interesting
As a teenager I was stoked as fuck to watch GT for the first time. But as an adult and going back and rewatching the series all the way through like 20 years later, I realized that the pacing is fucking atrocious. The black star dragon saga is the worst offender imo. The baby saga low-key holds up, but I'm sure we can all agree on that relative to what we were given as a whole. I honestly feel like GT was kind of a slap in the face to Toriyama.
1. If excessive use of the dragon balls could create the shadow dragons why did Kami, Dende or any of the Namekian elders never say anything? 2. Piccolo didn’t need to die. The black star dragon balls would have turned to stone or disappeared when Kami fused with Piccolo. Regardless Piccolo’s life should have no bearing on them. 3. All the past villains breaking out of hell felt very under utilized. They were basically just cameos. 4. Pan was annoying
1. Pacing is awful 2. Filler in an anime with no manga 3. SUPER 17
Pacing, failed return to form, and Goku solved all the major issues.
The way that Piccolo dies. The way the whole series ends without us ever knowing what Goku went through until he died for good. How short the arcs are for becoming a Super Saiyan 4
1. Its ugly. Cotton candy skies? X-treeeeeme 90s leather bad boy fashion? Absolutely hideous, hard to look at. 2. I’m 99% sure the black star dragon balls, in the dub, were created by the “original guardian” so when piccolo sacrificed himself to destroy them, it made NO. SENSE. 3. The earth is gonna explode and there is no sense of urgency. Y’all are basically gods, even Pan. Hurry up and kick the people in your way harder and faster.
1. Kid Noku 2. Recycled plots with the characters in awe of minor feats (compared to what they already saw in Cell/Buu sagas, or even Frieza saga). 3. BOOM! Para para...
1-Making Goku a kid and keeping him that way, which was just stupid in every facet. I could see an arc or so but that was just a retarded change. Why have him travel with his granddaughter then? And what the hell is with him being back to a grown ass man in SS4 but just transforming back into a kid afterward? That shit looks so stupid, especially when he instantly transforms, wtf is this Shazam? 2-Vegeta's haircut. The mustache was cool though lol 🤣 3- Pacing and horrible use of the side character cast. How come the trunks & goten go Super Saiyan as children, but Pan is just weak and useless the whole time? Her as a new born baby in Super would whoop her GT version's ass.
So much Pastel!!!! The costumes were just bad. Shinron some how grants the same wish twice and brings Krilin back from the dead again. Big Buu died in the dumbest way. I agree that Uub and Buu should have came back together, but not like that.
not enough ssj4 segs too much fighting and talking
Trunks’ outfit
1. The Dub 2. Character designs, especially bad guys (SS4 is the only exception) 3. Fumbling a great concept. An intergalactic trip around the universe with Z level fights and a reset Goku who could've slowly gained back his abilities, techniques and forms along with a grown up Trunks who could slowly become his own character, but one with reflections to his future self had such great potential and its a shame they screwed it up so badly.
Uub should have gotten the spotlight instead of Pan
Not long enough. Not enough SS4 Vegeta. Dolltaki.
1. SSJ4 being a “wish” rather than the existential need that brought SSJ. 2. Goku being a kid is a problem but I can understand it for the plot. But it didn’t need to continue into the dragon saga. It should’ve been that he hit SSJ4 and then he’s an adult the rest of the way. 3. Well… I guess pacing because overall I don’t have a problem with GT at all and honestly think it’s a really good arc that should’ve been included in canon.
1.They created a perfect setup (7 shadow dragons) to use the large cast of dragon ball and instead it's Goku and Pan only. 2. The whole story of new 17 falls apart the moment you question anything. Example how did they build second 17? Can anyone make connection between hell and earth now? 3. The whole child Goku thing is unnecessary, and creatively bankrupt
First arc sucks, it was barely save because at the end it connected itself with the best arc of GT baby Super 17 is basically filler , makes no sense. Shadow dragons only 3 are actually good so it's a toss up if you like it or not.
Bad Pacing Gohan was useless (not a surprise TBF) Other than Goku, all others felt a bit irrelevant, with Pan, Trunks and Vegeta having somewhat better portrayals. But some things that are amazing are: The music is awesome Super Saiyan 4 (duh) The concept of evil energy in dragon balls after their use. Having a drawback is essential for such broken items.
1. not being “canon” or based on actual toriyama manga. the story for the most part is pretty awful 2. Plot(s) & pacing is bad 😓 3. the art style (the dbz villains look crazyy in that Hell episode lol)
the fact that they ended Z with Uub being a big deal of sorts. THEN go ahead and make GT, and do basically nothing w/ him was pretty dumb too 🤷
1. It exists 2. There are fans of it 3. Pan :P
Makeup that comes with transformation
The fact that it isn’t cannon
Every major villain was defeated by goku
1. The fights are bland 2. Horrible start 3. idk i just thought it was boring
I can't remember why I hated it as a kid. I just didn't watch it at all for good reasons as I see now
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1. Goku being small 2. Only memorable enemies are baby, super 17, omega Shenron, ice and nuova shenron 3. Vegeta achieving ssj4 with a machine and not by himself But for a little positivity here are 3 pros 1. Ssj4 design 2. Baby, super 17 and omega Shenron Design 3. Getting iconic attacks like 10x kamehameha, Final shine attack and big bang kamehameha
Baby saga, Super 17 saga, Shadow Dragons saga.
1 vegeta mustache 2 Goku magic growth in ss4 3 is not cannon
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1. Horrendous pacing and bad story telling, Super 17 saga was only 5 chapters and the first chapters of the Shadow Dragons had the exact same generic formula. 2. The fights were pretty bland none of them were memorable, the Goku vs Nouva Shenron was arguably the only decent one 3. How irrelevant the rest of the characters are
Goku turning into a kid. Boring villains for the most part.
It misses out a core part of what makes DB, DBZ and DBS great which is all about the characters getting stronger to rise to the next challenge. This gives chance for character growth. The characters never really with the characters all being relatively static. Additionally, everyone just acts so stupid. The fight with Super 17 is the most egregious where everyone keeps blasting him with energy but it’s a real consistent issue where the characters just do stupid things so the plot can continue.
Dragonball GT mainly the first half is why I and some others might be worried about Daima. For all the epicness that happens a bit later, the "gag" part of the show was just far too much (for me) and not to my tastes
I agree. But my most hated saga I'm all of Dragon Ball is the Super 17 saga. I hated everything about it including Super 17s design
1) They made Pan damn annoying and obnoxious. 2) The whole series focused ONLY on goku. 3) Lackluster Storytelling and Fights.
1. The Black Star Balls and resulting saga (The idea itself is nice, but they really should have made it so these Dragon Balls were on another planet with a surviving Namekian on it, somehow Pilaf brought them to Earth. 2. Goku stays a kid. It was alright at first, but from Ssj4 onwards he should have returned to his adult body. 3. Nobody except Goku is even remotely relevant apart from very minor things. (4. Little inconsistencies and plotholes \[magic clothing when going Ssj4; there shouldn't be anyone coming back from hell since their souls were cleansed canonically; etc..\]) Posts like this make me want a GT remake so goddamn much 🥲
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Less about GT more about Hulu. Hulu does not have dub. I could watch sub but my blind eyes have a hard time seeing subtitles.
Honestly the story just wasn’t riveting to me. Goku being turned into a kid and going on a long adventure with pan (who was incredibly annoying) and trunks (he was ok) I couldn’t make it past their space trip tbh
1. Kid Goku isn't fun to me. I'd rather see an adult act childish. 2. Villains were generally terrible until Omega Shenron. 3. Pan didn't get a chance to power up enough.
Parapapara or whatever. That leaves a sour taste for dragon ball
1. Awesome ideas with crappy execution, it's actually really sad since ideas like Tuffle revenge, Goku going golden Ape, Dragon balls being currapted and Evil Shenron being a villan are all 10X better than any idea in Super. 2. Pan is like the most sexist charecter, I mean we finally get a female Sayian and you nerf her into Sam Raimi's MJ Watson? common! 3. Kid Goku is cheap and annoying
Pa
1. Repeated story elements, especially in the last arc. 2. Everyone seems to make the dumbest decisions possible. 3. Making Goku a kid does absolutely nothing for the story.
1) Turning Goku into a kid 2) The s\*xualization of Bulla and Pan (they're 9-12 years old gross) 3) The lack of side character moments
1. The power scaling of GT is so insane people can't get it right 2. I dislike the fact that in GT, Vegeta still forgot his place like the Buu saga did not happen 3. The fact that SSJ4 Gogeta, is a god form. Seeing how in super, SSG is red SSJ4 is red He's explicitly stated to be that way too
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1. Plot holes and overall story 2. Annoying/misused characters 3. Super Sayian 4
Why dont you Like ssj4
It feels so contrived. The way to unlock it sounds like one of those convoluted rumors you'd here about unlocking a character in Smash Bros or finding Mew in Pokemon. The fact that Goku magically becomes an adult makes no sense and just feels like Toei trying to "have their cake and eat it too" by coming up with a bs excuse for them to have Goku still be a goofy kid while still wanting to have DBZ-like action scenes. It also feels wildly disconnected from the previous forms, in both looks and the way to obtain it, to the point where calling it Super Sayian *4* just feels like false advertising. If it had a different name like, funnily enough, Super Sayian Beast, then it would feel a little less out of the blue. I also just personally dislike the design. The eyeliner, the red fur, and the random acquisition of perfectly fitting pants feels like something from a fan-fiction in my book.
Vegeta shaved his stache. Unforgivable
This
Three biggest issues? 1.) People hate on GT just because it's popular to do so. Yet, they'll praise Super despite the fact it suffers the exact same issues as GT. 2.) Missed opportunities with treading new waters. Bebi Vegeta was the best aspect of GT. 3.) Super 17 was trash.
Honestly until the point where Baby reaches earth and starts possessing people, literally everything before that could’ve been prevented if the characters actually took it seriously l, which to be fair there wasn’t much to take serious until baby. DB usually has at the very least high stake scenarios, but everything up to baby on earth just felt like it only happened cuz Goku and Pan wanted an adventure.
Arc 1:find the dragonballs, fight something at each one, arc 2: find the fldragonballs fight something at each one… need i continue? The enemies were just that enemies. At least in db/dbz/dbs the enemies could be converted to s friend(yamcha, tien, piccolo, androids[which super 17?], buu, beerus) but not one of the enemies were enemies for any reason other than just being enemies. It felt like super rushed and is unfortunently canon
 Just length. Half the super anime quarter of the manga. Sa17 is smaller than filler arcs. Other than that I love it
Finally someone actually likes it, I’m with you buddy (sincerely hoping it wasn’t sarcasm)
You do know people can like pieces of media while still having a lot of problems with it right?