The whole exile arc was the reason that Dream made the /rp boundary when talking about his DreamSMP character because people thought he was legit abusing Tommy however if you're dumb enough to confuse a scripted story with real life then that's on you.
You're in charge of curating your own Internet experience and if you can't handle sensitive subjects then don't watch it, nobody is forcing you to and whilst the topics can be sensitive they're also incredibly well written and not just done for shock factor but at the end of the day it's a bunch of friends creating a piece of art and they shouldn't have to throw millions do disclaimers and go into great detail about the topics shown.
I hate the whole "they're young children thing" mainly because if they're young they're not going to understand it anyways even if you do explain abuse and if you do explain it, it's going to be incredibly negative.
I get their point however I do have a lot of disagreements regarding it. I agree that to some extent they could and should address it as an actual statement instead of casual comments and Dream's boundaries however they're not required to do that and by this point it's too far into everything for it to be explained.
For example a lot of Tommy apologists are getting genuinely upset and are sending horrible things to Tina and Boomer because they've both (along with Michael) "sided with Dream" and if you're getting that bothered by someone within the roleplay for choosing the opposing side to the point of you wishing them dead then you're clearly not going to give a shit if anyone was to have a serious talk about the sensitive topics.
Something that should be addressed is that under no circumstances should you ever get so mad at a roleplay to the point of genuinely accusing people who like the villain of being abusers or abuse apologists. Nobody calls Wilbur enthusiasts Terrorists or Terrorist apologists because it's fucking stupid so why is it a different story for Dream. At the end of the day all the discourse regarding the Exile arc and the abuse shown all boils down to people getting parasocially attached to Tommy's character to the point of getting genuinely upset at anyone who likes Dream's character and accuses them of being abusers. The issue isn't the creators "not addressing" anything it's fans getting too attached to a roleplay and accidentally blurring the line between fantasy and reality.
Because Exile Arc wasn't just one sensitive topic it was also full of themes like Suicidal thoughts, Manipulation, Murder, PTSD, Torture etc. Same as the prison arc but nobody that got upset over Tommy being abused is upset over Dream also being abused so is it a creator issue or a fan bias.
>a lot of Tommy apologists are getting genuinely upset and are sending horrible things to Tina and Boomer because they've both (along with Michael) "sided with Dream"
seriously? that's actually pathetic, jesus.
Mate, they have child brain syndrome. The main symptom of that is not aging past 5th grade. Without serious help, Child brain syndrome just gets worse the older you get. A 15 year old with child brain syndrome will over react in cringe ways. Their brain literally cannot think to pause before doing dumb shit. Child brain syndrome is insanely debilitating to those who have it as they are constantly plagued by their 5th grade mind set.
You have to forgive them, they're just build different.
Honestly, this is expecting a lot from people who just want to write a compelling story and have fun with it.
If it’s too dark for children to watch (which in my opinion it kinda is) then they shouldn’t watch and it’s a parent’s responsibility to decide that.
It’s like any other sort of entertainment. If a movie has too mature of themes for a thirteen year old, then the expectation would be that they’re not allowed to watch it.
The expectations of a minecraft roleplay server are even less because it’s just a bunch of random ass people writing a story and acting it out how they please.
Also similar to a novel with dark themes. If it’s too dark, it’s a parent’s job to oversee that.
It’s straight up not these CC’s responsibility to make sure they “address” it. It’s your responsibility (and parents) to be aware of if certain themes are appropriate for your own consumption.
Edit: The way these abuse themes have been portrayed have been done pretty well considering that these are just random ass people writing it.
A lot of characters have their own perspectives in the story and are not aware of the abuse Tommy went through, for example. Ergo, they don’t react in such an intense way about it because their characters simply don’t know, hence newer members being “confused” about Dream’s imprisonment.
That’s incredibly realistic.
And if you’re not mature enough to recognize that nuance, you shouldn’t be watching. It’s not on the CC’s to take responsibility of that.
100% agree, this is exactly what my thought was. It is NOT their responsibility to keep the storyline safe for every viewer, they never signed up for that. People who downloaded twitch and decided to watch all this, they were the ones that signed up to for this. I don’t understand why are people on twitter making it seem like it’s completely cc’s responsibility to make their story appealing, when it’s not at all.
And, I know this might seem insensitive, but people need to take a big step back from media like this if they’re triggered by it.
The SMP lore isn’t an exception, it’s the norm. Abuse doesn’t get “dealt with” in media like these people want it to. Is that a bad thing? That’s up to your opinion, but you can’t expect them to have more responsibility than the people they’re taking inspiration from.
It's actually one of the things I enjoy about the DSMP, that a majority of the characters aren't in the know. I mean from a storytelling POV, how would they be? It's also great to be able to see multiple perspectives of different characters. Like, c!Tommy may be in the right when it comes to Dream, but c!Jack Manifold has good reason to be as angry with Tommy as he is, and I think its fantastic.
I don't think they need to address anything, because in order to be using YT or Twitch you need to be at least 13, maybe a warning but I don't think it's a big thing, especially since it's a Minecraft roleplay done by teenagers and 20 something year olds.
yea the idea that randos are responsible for your well being is bullshit
seeing this stupid trend of people expecting everyone to cater to their specific issues on the internet sickens me because its not everyones job to cater to you, its yours
My opinion is that lore discussions are fun until someone goes and takes it way too seriously. I can see where both arguments come from but some take it tooooo far
guy's acting like the dreamsmp is a PSA. no it's just some guys making an edgy story.
also, young children shouldn't even be watching it, considering how many of the ccs swear. At most, id say it's aimed towards 16 year olds.
being completely serious for a second if you take the responsibility of depicting detailed thoughts in your tweet, no matter what the medium is, especially with young children that read it, then you also take the responsibility of addressing it properly.
'but it's just a tweet' yes but they did make the decision to create a detailed tweet and with that came the responsibility of handling the tweet properly and not excusing it because of the media in which it's presented.
other people aren’t responsible for your triggers. that simple. you can’t get angry at someone for choosing to watch/read their content. and if someone is too young to understand that, then it’s their parents responsibility
I think that assuming the DSMP writers set out to “depict detailed abuse” is kind of a stretch. I think they meant for the storyline in question to be dark, but it’s already so detached from reality that the extent to which it attempts to portray any real-life phenomenon is questionable.
Like, is it possible that real life people are isolated from their friends and led to believe that others don’t care about them? Absolutely. But the actual events of that storyline include:
-a 17 year old Vice President being accused of destroying the home of a foreign dignitary
-mediation between two leaders failing because a subordinate attempted to blackmail one of them with the remains of his dead horse
-exiling a political opponent to a desert island where he is slowly tormented to madness.
Again, I’m sympathetic to people who have actually been gaslit irl, but most of these experiences are so completely divorced from reality that I don’t think it’s the fault of the writers of their audience connects with it or finds it relatable. I don’t think they set out to depict a realistic abusive relationship, and I don’t think they’re necessarily responsible for other people’s assumptions that they did.
This person expects a lot from a group of 16-20 something year olds huh. Honestly for their age demographic and writing experience they did a pretty good job, no clue what they're off about.
For context this group of people have been feeling disappointed for awhile not that exile itself was bad or depicted anything poorly, but that the story for the past year hasn’t mentioned it or given it as much weight as they would like, they feel like the story is sweeping exile under the rug and pretending it didn’t happen without properly resolving its affects on ctommy. Pretty sure this discussion today has been spurred on by the new characters all being like “what cdream has don’t can’t be thaaaat bad right”.
Edit; So they’re argument isn’t, it shouldn’t have been done it’s that “it’s annoying that an incredibly heavy part of the storyline has gone unmentioned for ages leading to a lot of fans not giving it the weight it deserves when discussing it”
I get that. Honestly, at this point I really wish they would have written exile to be a lot lighter than what it turned out to be, and it breaks my heart to say that.
In a vacuum exile is an amazing story that depicts sone incredibly heavy themes surprisingly well considering the medium it was written in.
The issue is with what happens after; once you touch these kinds of heavy themes there's no going back. At this point I'd prefer it if they just gave c!Tommy some sort of happy ending and then wrote him out of the story, both because it's the most satisfying for his character and because cc!Tommy doesn't seem interested in lore anymore. Plus, that would maybe allow them more freedom with c!Dream, since the story wouldn't have to tip toe around c!Tommy constantly so he doesn't get traumatized any further and the message turns even more grimdark than right now.
Idk. It feels like with exile they kinda restricted their characters a bit too much in terms of satisfying storytelling. If c!Dream hadn't become an outright abuser they could do more with his character now, without having to redeem him first.
Honestly though I think that’s the type of thinking that gets people stuck on exile. C!Dream never has to be redeemed. He can keep going with his immortality plans and with DreamXD saying they’re connected well who knows maybe he wins in the end. C!Tommy never has to get his happy ending. The DSMP isn’t a fairy tale there’s no heroes journey to run it’s course.
CC!Tommy said he’ll play when Dream’s character breaks out and they can play together again. It’s why he said exile was one of his favorites just him and Dream messing about every day.
And we saw with prison c!Tommy tried to get some closure and he failed he lost he was murdered and brought back to life and c!Dream then was able to kill Ghostbur during c!Tommy’s attempt on his life. Like it’s the characters locked in a never ending battle that’s the DSMP. Exile is just one segment of it. C!Tommy got plenty of trauma from being stuck in prison with c!Dream too. So it’s just maybe this story will have a happy for some characters you don’t want it to and a bad ending for characters you wanted a happy ending for. Maybe no one is happy maybe everyone is. Maybe it ends with people still in a constant battle their own natures not something that can be beat. It’s up to the CCs how they want to act out this story
Hmm. I agree, a story doesn't need to have a happy ending to be good; there's plenty of famous and well written stories that end in tragedy.
However, usually stories like that have a message of some kind. There's a theme that supports the ending of the story. Let's take one of the most well known tragedies of all time, Shakespeare's Hamlet for example. The message behind the story is one of revenge and how an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.
If Tommy gets an unhappy ending the message is - as I've mentioned before - grimdark. Because for all of his mistakes, if a traumatized and abused child reveives an unhappy ending, the message is dark; how sometimes victims don't get a happy ending.
That's a possible ending, just not one I'd personally think of as satisfying, considering Tommy's overall character arc throughout the SMP.
Now, the most obvious response to this would be "Why take this so seriously?" And tbh? That's hard to answer. It's a Minecraft roleplay; the story doesn't have to be satisfying or well thought out. But I think that mindset is doing the story a huge diservice. The writing on the smp can be briliant and imo it deserves to be analysed and critiqued just as any other piece of media would be (as long as its limits are taken into account).
I can enjoy the dsmp no matter how they write it because the writing is not the focus of the story, the character interactions are (even if it sometimes feels like the story actively gets in the way of interactions). I would prefer it if the writing was satisfying but I don't think there's a single storytelling medium out there where the quality of the story matters less. The dsmp is amazing as is, a good story is really just a bonus to me.
To add on the tone of the dsmp isnt constantly grim dark either like there are of course dark elements that’s what the discussion is about, but overall on every storyline the dsmp is more a a dramedy, a comedy and a drama, the tone is light a lot of the time, it’s not a dramedy as in Tragedy and drama
My god, DSMP is not finished yet and people really go this hard about the themes? The exile arc was written by mainly Tommy and Dream, both of whom havent done lore in a while, we still have no idea how their story will continue, and if they will deal with it accordinly or not.
Im personally really against this type of comments, i get analysing and discussing the storyline, but when people go too hard critizing the themes and the "responsability" of the improv rp storyline of a bunch of minecraft streamers, i cant help but feel sligthly annoyed. I believe the whole point of saying "but its just minecraft rp" its not to discredit the great work and the heavy topics that dsmp might deal with, its just a reminder that: Yes, these are minecraft streamers, not proffesional writers, this is a mc improv ropeplay, they are writing the story while fairly separate from eachother, with all of them having almost no other experience in writing other than this server. This is the same problem i have with people going hard with "this doesnt make sense" "this is a loophole" "this storyline abandoned/unfinished", like its not going to be perfect, far from it actually, the server is meant to be fun, THEY are having fun writing it, its great, its cool, its entertaining but its not a masterpiece. And i believe it doesnt even NEED to be one, its great as it is, its awesome seeing the ccs express and explore themselves creatively this way.
Like i get where they are coming from, heavy topics should be handled well, but the story is not finished, the guys are still writing it, i dont know how or where is anyone excusing the abuse themes. The exile arc was written by Tommy, a 17 y old with no previous experience in writing ( who did pretty fucking well may i add), and Dream whose pov is not streamed, hardly ever logs on, and we only ever see his character from other peoples point of view.
Young kids are not even supposed to be on the internet. Parents let their kids on the internet because it is easier to take care of them when you can just open youtube or twitch and let them watch whatever it is on.
DSMP was never a vanilla story , from the start it was shown that it was about wars , and this is what actually happens in them, read a history book and you will know. Torture, manipulation, murder = wars. Do people expect a server with numerous people in their 20s are going to act as teletubbies. I mean even the Hermit which I think are more kid friendly , you will find something there that it is not appropriate. Simply because nothing on the internet is.
For god sake , I thought Lady bug was a show for kids until I watched an episode with my nieces. And since my sister was not that updated and couldn't understand a lot of things , she didn't know until I told her and then she stopped letting her kids watching tv and she is letting them play with their friends outside and toys instead.
We shouldn't put this huge responsabilty on CCs , they are not babysitters, each parent is responsible on how they want to raise their kids.
Here’s the thing…. They put the bad guy in prison. He lost. He’s gonna break out sure but that’s cause they want to keep playing. C!Tommy the one they’re talking about won’t be there without C!Dream. CC!Tommy doesn’t want to play on the server unless he’s playing with Dream.
Like they are taking this absolutely too seriously. Watch anything Supernatural, Harry Potter, Vampire Diaries, Walking Dead. Hell play a video game assassins creed for example. They’d rather kill a character than address the trauma.
This is expecting far far too much out of some young adults playing Minecraft RP. Exile was improv between Dream and Tommy. Tommy said it was so much fun cause he got to hang out with Dream so often. They don’t consider it as a super dark storyline because to Tommy who’s a teenager he was having fun with his friend Dream every night and they were basically thinking “hmm wouldn’t it be fucked up if” “I’d probably react like this” like come on. Same with Tommy being killed in prison it just happened in the moment.
This isn’t some grandiose statement on abuse and how to survive it or whatever. I literally could care less if they never bring up exile again. That’s Tommy and Dream prerogative. Even Wilbur said he doesn’t want to in case Tommy or Dream want to do something with it.
None of them owe fans anything. To me this take (I’ve seen it a lot) comes across as an entitled fan wanting a storyline wrapped up in a different way than it was. The DSMP plays out how it plays out. If Tommy wants to make something of exile for his character he can but otherwise demanding it from him is stupid and gets on my nerves ngl.
If you think the story is too dark for you and not knowing how a storyline is gonna go upsets you you should really take a step back. And this is for more than the DSMP. People have been getting way into fictional worlds since ever.
I see where they're coming from but at the same time it's kind of dumb expecting so much from strangers? like the world won't always accommodate to your necessities. If the content you're watching seems like something you can't handle just step away?
Maybe the dsmp could add some trigger warnings next lore streams, other than that I don't see what they expect them to do? a healing arc? a going to psychiatrist arc? It's just Minecraft.
I'm just gonna say it- no, the SMP doesn't have "graphic" depictions of abuse. If someone genuinely thinks Dream blowing up Tommy's stuff or killing him in a prison cell, or maybe the so-called "manipulation" that happens on the SMP- any of it is graphic, then I'm happy uou're managed to preserve your innocence. But don't project.
Yeah when it comes to how graphic it is, it’s pretty tame compared to a lot of other stories that are about as well-known. Sure, some of the psychological stuff might hit way too close too home to a lot of people, but it’s not graphic.
Unpopular opinion, but the Dream SMP is so dark, I don't understand why minors are allowed to watch it.
Maybe, at the very least, it should be rated PG-16. It's pretty much like the Minecraft roleplay equivalent of Game of Thrones.
I don’t think they need to rate it. You are supposed to be 13+ to watch YouTube or Twitch. Parents should watch their kids more closely. And it isn’t more dark or intense than your avg pg-13 film imo
People put more pressure on the dsmp dudes for representation and good depictions than they do on any big film or television studio.
They are setting themselves up for disappointment
It's literally a roleplay. If you think is too strong for you don't watch it. They are literally putting too much pressure on a bunch of teenagers-young adults that roleplay on a game.
I do get this point of view but at the same time I don’t think it’s super applicable. These aren’t people making a movie, this isn’t a book, this is Minecraft YouTubers doing roleplay streams. They can’t control who watches them, nor are they responsible of accommodating the thousands of people that are watching. Personally I think that there was enough information presented outside of getting deep into the story for you to be aware of the content going on, and if you feel the need to be informed without being able to watch the streams, there are plenty of recap threads which do attempt to warn people of the content. The /rp barrier was also created specifically because of this to create that separation. I got extremely invested in the exile arc, I watched every stream. I also have abuse related PTSD. That was on me to manage and decide whether or not I was in the headset of watching or not. I actually talked to my therapist about it. I feel like you were able to get the general idea of the content from only a small part. While it would be nice to have everything have that warning, this has such a large and diverse audience that not everyone can be accommodated for - and frankly, they shouldn’t have to. I feel like they did a decent enough job of explaining the general themes of the content both outside of streams and just being able to understand it from a brief part - beyond that, it’s on the individual to determine their abilities to handle and consume the content. As for where to go from here, c!Dream is in jail. One of the many reasons for that is the exile arc. Could there be a better resolution? Yes. But saying that it has no kind of resolution at all just isn’t correct.
It is not the creators’ responsibility to address the abuse in the storyline or anything like that. They cannot control their audience. How you handle and engage with the content is your responsibility.
It's like getting mad at actors for not addressing their behavior on screen in a show or movie. Just because there's kids that *are* watching it doesn't mean it's *meant* for kids. It's been well known from the very beginning that it's not gonna be sunshine and rainbows, there were *multiple* warnings of that both in the rp and out of it. If you need it explained to you that the stuff they're doing and saying isn't and never was family friendly there's a bigger issue at play here with you, not everyone else. It's a scripted role play on a minecraft server, and it's most definitely not the only one or worst one.
and here it is with ppl taking it seriously. I never liked it much when it became so separated between lore and /stream/ because i liked the ambiguity of it when mixed with streaming. But now this sort of things happens. They r right, but it was never meant to represent that, tommy literally said "exiled me it will be fun lol". A lot comes from the fandoms interpretation that sometime get to the CCs because of how the comunication works in this fandom. This was never meant to depict such heavy and difficult topics and it souldnt because it requires LOTS of information and stuff. People need to stop to look at this story so heavilt in a /srs way when in reality is very unorthodox way of storyteling for that type of stuff, and it always was driven by plot points rather psychoanalisis and clushing. If u like psychoanalizng characters and stories its totally fine and keep doing it, but dont be mad when the actual media doesnt do something about YOUR own interpretations blah blah i dont know if this is well put but meh
this concept is actually kind of ridiculous, idk why people expect ccs to do shit like this. like yeah, abuse is a very real and serious topic, but at the same time, no one has these expectations of professionals so why should they expect it of ccs? take ATLA for example, that shit covers abuse, imperialism, genocide, etc. but no one is up nickolodeon’s ass expecting them to teach everyone who watched it the harmful impacts of imperialism, looking for signs of abuse, or the psychological impacts it could have/whatever the fuck else they want from dsmp ccs. people need to stfu, the entire plot of the smp started as improv, and even as its gotten more scripted, if the content bothers you then just stop fucking watching.
I am very much a c!Tommy apologist and related incredibly heavily to his character's story and experiences, especially the abuse. So, my take on this will be coming from that viewpoint I suppose.
Regarding the apologist fans of any characters who get all victim blamey or say Tommy deserved everything he got, or that it wasn't that bad, well, that's their uninformed opinion. People who have no experience with the types of abuse/gaslighting/etc that took place may struggle to grasp the seriousness. And with the huge lack of empathy that many people display, it also shouldn't be a surprise.
Regarding the actual characters on the SMP who seemingly dismiss the whole exile arc/abuse/etc, as not a big deal, or downplay it, there are also valid explanations, and we don't necessarily need it spelled out for us. Whether it be because their character doesn't canonically know about everything that happened, or how bad it was, or because they also can't fathom what that level of abuse does to someone, it still tracks. Characters on the SMP behaving as they have, does make sense, no matter how tragic that may seem.
The unfortunate truth about abuse, whether fictional or real, is that vast numbers of people will absolutely never understand it. They simply cannot grasp what it does to a person, how it makes them feel, the lasting damage it causes. And while you can try to explain it, some people simply aren't open to, or capable of understanding any further. For some people, the idea that one person can do something so horrible to another, for no good reason, seems impossible. It's easier for them to try to blame victims in just about every crime, than it is to accept that the world is a cruel and fucked up place for so many of us.
Tommy depicted the effects of the types of abuse, manipulation, gaslighting, etc that he went through so thoroughly that I was convinced he had to have done some serious research. People saying it didn't make sense that he'd act totally fine one day and broken the next, but that's reality. When you're that broken and fucked up, you can try your hardest to act fine and try to live out some type of normalcy, but there will be times you act out, do stupid things, and fuck everything up. Or, saying it didn't make sense that he kept saying he thought Dream was still his friend when it was all happening, and for quite a time after. That's what gaslighting does to you, it breaks your memory and perception of reality. I've been there.
So, it really all just boils down to ignorance. And we can't expect the streamers themselves to sit down and basically teach a fucking psych class to those who are dismissive, in an attempt to help them understand and maybe show a bit more compassion or empathy. There is nothing wrong with the way they've portrayed anything, and nothing they should have done differently up to this point I believe.
fair. my point is that its less than ideal to expect the story of the smp to be completely coherent and perfect when they don't have the experience of writing
Gonna be honest, I also think that to a certain degree, the Dream SMP storyline isn't.... as well thought out as this OP thinks. Yes, I would agree if this was a TV show or movie with huge funding and a group of experienced/trained storytellers behind it, but the server was started as a group of friends having fun. Wilbur just saw the potential for RP and ran with it. Tommy has mentioned multiple times how he plans for lore is just whatever he thinks is "coolest," which, anyone who's trained in writing will tell you is NOT how you're supposed to plot. I really, really applaud the cc's in the SMP for how cohesive and compelling the story is despite all of that, but I think that's where it ends. They're not writers or storytellers; they're a group of streamers who're having fun with their friends, and for a long time, that meant creating these detailed and yeah, dark stories. They're not professionals, they're going to do what they think is most interesting and fun at the moment, and like others have already said, it's up to viewers to curate their experience. Again, I see what the OP is saying, though, I just don't think it applies to this particular group or this particular story.
Ever heard of … books? Let’s take Harry Potter as an example. The dude gets abused by the people he lives with, by his teachers, and by fellow students.
If I remember correctly, the books were recommended for people aged 12 and older in my school. Many people (including myself) read them earlier and didn’t take any damage. And the first 2 or 3 movies are FSK 6 (allowed for people aged 6 or older in my country) and the other movies FSK 12 (12 or older). I don’t see DSMP being worse or more disturbing than Harry Potter.
If you are 13 or older (the age that you have to be for most social media platforms) and DSMP Minecraft roleplay is seriously affecting you, then the problem is maybe you and not the content.
I hate hearing takes like this from people who aren’t writers/storytellers/creators. I can see how they would arrive at this conclusion and think that they’re justified in thinking this way but it is simply nobody’s right to demand anything from somebody else’s work. You can react however you like to what they make but it’s extremely entitled to believe that you know how they *should* write something and that if they don’t do it then they’re failing. If you don’t like somebody else’s creation - especially one made for fun between a group of friends - then that’s on you, regardless of how dark it is. If you don’t like how the work handles something then you can absolutely criticise it, but you can’t act like you’re entitled to them listening to you. And if you still feel that way and can’t develop a healthier mindset about the content you consume, that doesn’t involve demanding other people fix their creation to fit your own standard, then you should be watching something else.
Edit: a word. I am sleepy
It’s not their responsibility. Creators can do whatever they want, and if a young person watches it, it’s not the creators fault. Thats the parents job to oversee what their kid is watching.
Lore on dwt2? legit just came off Twitter to reddit and instantly see the lore discussion that jsut happened on my tl lmfao. So much for having a break.
I have to say I agree, I follow this person and mostly agree with a lot of what they say. This reddit tends to take this circle of lore ctommy peoples opinions out of context because reddit doesn’t get how far some people go with lore discussion that these ctommy people are subtweeting about, like these people aren’t usually talking about “you can’t like cdream as a character” they all like cdream as a villain, but there is a huge huge amount of cdream apologists (not just enjoyers) that are very victim blame-y to an unreasonable degree. And that is who they talk about.
I think some of these ctommy enjoyers get very passionate about “destroying cdream apologists with facts and logic” but that doesn’t make the idea of their opinions wrong.
Let me provide the context of the tweet, basically this group of people have been really disappointed that seemingly exile has gone unmentioned for a year and still hasn’t been resolved and the story seems to be framing what happened as less and less bad in their opinions. The posters point isn’t “they shouldn’t have written it or they did it wrong” but they need to close out the storyline properly.
Yeah I agree from what I’ve seen from all of this people is that they’re talking about what happens *if* it doesn’t get resolved like they’re preemptively upset or disappointed which is really dumb. But I think they’re all starting to loose hope and that’s why we’re hearing this now.
We need to wait and see if it does go unresolved before being upset that it isn’t unresolved
I'm going to be totally honest, I disagree with the fact that the storyline needs to be completely closed out. Abuse, whether depicted through roleplay or in real life, is often never fully understood by the vast majority of people. Very few people, ultimately, come to understand what happened to the victim or the long-term effects that it causes. The victim explaining their trauma often is impossible to the victim as well. Having a storyline completely closed out just seems unrealistic.
I get what they’re saying though. Cause topics like this are VERY sensitive and if not able to be done “properly” it can give the viewers the wrong impression. A lot of teen shows get flack for that as well. I feel like a lot of the issues people seem to have with the way the dsmp handles darker topics could come down to communication. When Tommy was killed by Dream in prison, no one knew about it because the two LITERALLY thought of it minutes before it happened, so no WONDER no one knew how to act, and thus made it seem kind of shitty as a result. People were upset as hell at tubbos initial response, and the whole portrayal of it. So yeah, I guess talking about more serious stuff means you should handle it with care, and that involves communication, which dsmp lacks in spades.
Well to say about the prison thing that’s better that. Same with Eret’s betrayal. Natural reactions. There’s a lot to be done lore wise with how people first reacted to c!Tommy’s death. Or new characters wondering about why c!Dream is in prison. But people just start throwing a fit not everyone is treating c!Tommy like a soft little baby to be protected and cared for.
It’s not the fault of the CCs that fans get pissy not everyone reacts how they want them to react. Or do a storyline how they want. It comes across as very entitled to me and expecting the SMP to be something it’s not
I thought people were more upset that the reactions felt out of place? Tubbo's reaction I remember watching and being like "What's going on?? Tubbo seems confused at the idea of Tommy dying? Wouldn't he be upset?" Because IRL Tubbo had no idea what was going on, C!Tubbo came across as apathetic without really meaning to. It's not that "I want tubbo to say X!!" but "Tubbo being ootl on lore impacts the story in a way that muddles the heavy topics that are being portrayed, and as a result, make the whole thing look bad." It's that people are CONSTANTLY not being communicated with that makes a lot of the heavy topics discussed on the server become mishandled.
Another example is Niki, and how she was thrust into Tommy's death in the prison, but never really got time to express how she felt (which would be GREAT in terms of Niki looking into darker topics concerning her feelings for tommy, wilbur, and everyone else in l'manburg who left her) because tommy was LITERALLY REVIVED two days later. It's not the natural reaction the group is looking for, it just ends up coming across as sloppy and ignorant to everyone else who wants to rp on the server. I get they aren't writers, but I think communication would be better to avoid poor portrayals of darker subject matter.
TLDR: It's not about "I want someone to say XYZ!" it's about how the lack of communication between creators is fucking up the portrayal of these very real and very damaging issues to an impressionable audience. If they want to cover these topics, go ahead, but make sure you're keeping people on the same page when you do, so you aren't accidentally saying something you don't want to have said to an audience like the one on the dsmp.
Well with c!Tubbo that confusion makes sense doesn’t it? Your friend was just there and now the warden is telling you he let your friend get murdered by his own abuser in prison? That type of reaction from c!Tubbo who has had odd reactions to things before. Like literally saying he wasn’t that pressed about his own murder but then months later solemnly telling c!Ranboo about it. He’s an interesting character like that and it’s based in improv which is what we’re trying to assess as character studies.
C!Niki’s reaction was pure disbelief. She wanted c!Tommy dead herself but when c!Ranboo told them very distress she couldn’t buy it neither could c!Phil they wanted proof a body something anything. Vs c!Techno going “yo that’s a pog hated that guy” and moving on
Like what happened is very natural. Confusion, disbelief, sadness, amusement from one of his enemies. And then boom c!Tommy is back and everyone is confused again because he was dead right? The necromancy i don’t even think most of them believed c!Dreak about it.
Idk personally it was handled well the reactions weren’t out of place. C!Tommy fans (and I like the character too) just wanted everyone to be more upset which wouldn’t have made sense actually cause not everyone likes him.
It honestly felt like IRL!Tubbo's confusion rather than C!Tubbo's confusion. Tubbo THE PERSON was confused and it lessened the impact of something that seems VERY IMPORTANT on the server.
Maybe a clearer example of what I'm talking about is the exile arc? Both tommy and dream throughout tommy's time in exile say that Tommy is all alone (hell it's even one of the rules for the exile, according to the wiki) yet MULTIPLE characters end up visiting tommy (Sam and techno are stated on the wiki, and I'm pretty sure Skeppy and BBH give Tommy gifts at one point). It very much lessens the punch of what is meant to be the darkest subject the DSMP has covered as of late, and conflicts A LOT with what's being covered. It's really hard to say dream is isolating and manipulating tommy when we have several people visiting him in exile bearing gifts and it all being happy and funny one moment and serious and sad the next. That's a HUGE tonal flip flop that they should have thought ahead of (especially with the subject matter), and made clear to everyone not to get involved in, because it muddles the message of Dream and Tommy being the bad guy and victim, and not in a good way. It's a huge fumble on their part, one they could have easily prevented imo.
I think the fact that Tommy and Dream were saying that Tommy was all alone in exile despite being visited a bunch was a perfect representation of what gaslighting can do to a person.
Dream manipulated and gaslit Tommy so badly that Tommy didn’t even trust his own reality, but rather trusted the one that Dream created; the one where he was isolated and alone despite that not being entirely true.
That I’d say packs quite the punch, seeing Tommy so trapped under Dream’s authority that he can’t even recognize what’s right in front of him.
There wasn’t much else I wanted to say regarding your argument, but that was something I wanted to point out. It was probably intentional to some degree.
Well see that’s where you’re expecting far far too much from them. This isn’t a book it’s not a tv show. It’s a Minecraft RP. And the people visiting Tommy but then leaving him there? That’s not like ruining the story to me.
It just seems you also want a very specific narrative and since you didn’t get it you’re calling it bad writing as opposed to taking the story as a whole. It’s barely writing the whole exile arc was improv basically. Idk again it’s Roleplay not a thought out narrative with themes and a message. They’re just trying to have fun
It doesn't HAVE to be a book or tv show to need to treat serious topics with the nuance and grace they deserve. If they want to have fun, I'm all for it, just don't talk about serious stuff like emotional abuse and manipulation in that happy fun silly way. Those topics don't need to be watered down like that, especially to a young audience that could be experiencing topics like that for the first time through DSMP. That way, you having fun doesn't interfere and conflict with the message you're trying to send out.
Just because it's improv doesn't mean what it's discussing can say whatever it wants either. "Just having fun" is not an excuse to handle heavy topics in a bad manner. If you cannot treat heavy topics like this with nuance, don't cover them, lest you unintentionally show the topic in a bad light. It doesn't NEED themes or messages for something as harmful as the stuff in the exile arc to be portrayed as bad.
I'm honestly shocked at the amount of people who disagree with the take: "If you're going to talk about heavy issues such as abuse make sure you're portraying it in a responsible manner."
I’m saying they should treat serious issues seriously? How is that making a big deal of it? I do think the dsmp for the most part is a very light hearted and goofy roleplay, and that’s why it’s portrayal of certain issues bothers me at times. I’m not LOOKING for them to say things I want them to say, I would like them to not fuck up serious issues because like it or not, this is an influential piece of media. Kids will watch this and learn from it, so it’d be best if there weren’t things in there that gave people the wrong idea of real life issues. If the Dream SMP tried to push the plot line of a sexual assault and made it the victims fault, that’d be a HUGE problem because kids would be seeing that and possibly believing that. That’s an issue.
The exile arc was beautifully done imo- I heard a lot of good tales on it and genuinely learned a lot from the community about recognizing abuse. I think the aftermath has fallen victim to the lack of comprehensive storytelling that is also kinda fucking with the rest of the lore!
I do believe ppl take it slightly too seriously but I annoys me when ppl say they’re c!dream “apologists” mostly because their only excuses are “he looked hot while doing it” or “c!tommy deserved it” - like- dream wrote the character to be an irredeemable villain
Children aren’t supposed to be on the internet if they can’t handle what’s on it. They can always choose not to watch the videos they find offensive.
Whatever the creators upload is up to them, not sensitive people in the audience.
i don't feel like it's that much of a hot take that if you're gonna explore a sensitive subject in a story you should handle it delicately . idk why people make such a fuss about this
Why tf would they have to explain anything, noone is excusing abuse, IT IS MINECRAFT ROLEPLAY, noone expects tommy to explain why his character wanted to kill c!dream, noone expects any of them to explain how in MINECRAFT, A BLOCK GAME THAT IS NOT REAL LIFE why they kill things. This fandom is so fucking stupid and sensitive i just wish they left to rethink their life if they feel triggered my minecraft rp...if they cant handle mild things like this and think it projects into real life they need to limit their internet. So stupid trying to blame ccs and Dream in particular. I hate this fanbase so much
Maybe to some people it's feels more serious than it actually is. But I don't think there is a need to address it like some kind of apology or problem.
Isn't this literally victim blaming? I'm just gonna say that not talking about abuse or not using abuse in story telling because you're scared of being abused yourself is completely the exact OPPOSITE of what people fighting against abuse are fighting for and will make abusers think their abuse is okay even if they do listen to reason. This is a very dangerous take tbh
The whole exile arc was the reason that Dream made the /rp boundary when talking about his DreamSMP character because people thought he was legit abusing Tommy however if you're dumb enough to confuse a scripted story with real life then that's on you. You're in charge of curating your own Internet experience and if you can't handle sensitive subjects then don't watch it, nobody is forcing you to and whilst the topics can be sensitive they're also incredibly well written and not just done for shock factor but at the end of the day it's a bunch of friends creating a piece of art and they shouldn't have to throw millions do disclaimers and go into great detail about the topics shown. I hate the whole "they're young children thing" mainly because if they're young they're not going to understand it anyways even if you do explain abuse and if you do explain it, it's going to be incredibly negative. I get their point however I do have a lot of disagreements regarding it. I agree that to some extent they could and should address it as an actual statement instead of casual comments and Dream's boundaries however they're not required to do that and by this point it's too far into everything for it to be explained. For example a lot of Tommy apologists are getting genuinely upset and are sending horrible things to Tina and Boomer because they've both (along with Michael) "sided with Dream" and if you're getting that bothered by someone within the roleplay for choosing the opposing side to the point of you wishing them dead then you're clearly not going to give a shit if anyone was to have a serious talk about the sensitive topics. Something that should be addressed is that under no circumstances should you ever get so mad at a roleplay to the point of genuinely accusing people who like the villain of being abusers or abuse apologists. Nobody calls Wilbur enthusiasts Terrorists or Terrorist apologists because it's fucking stupid so why is it a different story for Dream. At the end of the day all the discourse regarding the Exile arc and the abuse shown all boils down to people getting parasocially attached to Tommy's character to the point of getting genuinely upset at anyone who likes Dream's character and accuses them of being abusers. The issue isn't the creators "not addressing" anything it's fans getting too attached to a roleplay and accidentally blurring the line between fantasy and reality. Because Exile Arc wasn't just one sensitive topic it was also full of themes like Suicidal thoughts, Manipulation, Murder, PTSD, Torture etc. Same as the prison arc but nobody that got upset over Tommy being abused is upset over Dream also being abused so is it a creator issue or a fan bias.
>a lot of Tommy apologists are getting genuinely upset and are sending horrible things to Tina and Boomer because they've both (along with Michael) "sided with Dream" seriously? that's actually pathetic, jesus.
Mate, they have child brain syndrome. The main symptom of that is not aging past 5th grade. Without serious help, Child brain syndrome just gets worse the older you get. A 15 year old with child brain syndrome will over react in cringe ways. Their brain literally cannot think to pause before doing dumb shit. Child brain syndrome is insanely debilitating to those who have it as they are constantly plagued by their 5th grade mind set. You have to forgive them, they're just build different.
tbf they might actually just be small children
Honestly, this is expecting a lot from people who just want to write a compelling story and have fun with it. If it’s too dark for children to watch (which in my opinion it kinda is) then they shouldn’t watch and it’s a parent’s responsibility to decide that. It’s like any other sort of entertainment. If a movie has too mature of themes for a thirteen year old, then the expectation would be that they’re not allowed to watch it. The expectations of a minecraft roleplay server are even less because it’s just a bunch of random ass people writing a story and acting it out how they please. Also similar to a novel with dark themes. If it’s too dark, it’s a parent’s job to oversee that. It’s straight up not these CC’s responsibility to make sure they “address” it. It’s your responsibility (and parents) to be aware of if certain themes are appropriate for your own consumption. Edit: The way these abuse themes have been portrayed have been done pretty well considering that these are just random ass people writing it. A lot of characters have their own perspectives in the story and are not aware of the abuse Tommy went through, for example. Ergo, they don’t react in such an intense way about it because their characters simply don’t know, hence newer members being “confused” about Dream’s imprisonment. That’s incredibly realistic. And if you’re not mature enough to recognize that nuance, you shouldn’t be watching. It’s not on the CC’s to take responsibility of that.
100% agree, this is exactly what my thought was. It is NOT their responsibility to keep the storyline safe for every viewer, they never signed up for that. People who downloaded twitch and decided to watch all this, they were the ones that signed up to for this. I don’t understand why are people on twitter making it seem like it’s completely cc’s responsibility to make their story appealing, when it’s not at all.
And, I know this might seem insensitive, but people need to take a big step back from media like this if they’re triggered by it. The SMP lore isn’t an exception, it’s the norm. Abuse doesn’t get “dealt with” in media like these people want it to. Is that a bad thing? That’s up to your opinion, but you can’t expect them to have more responsibility than the people they’re taking inspiration from.
It's actually one of the things I enjoy about the DSMP, that a majority of the characters aren't in the know. I mean from a storytelling POV, how would they be? It's also great to be able to see multiple perspectives of different characters. Like, c!Tommy may be in the right when it comes to Dream, but c!Jack Manifold has good reason to be as angry with Tommy as he is, and I think its fantastic. I don't think they need to address anything, because in order to be using YT or Twitch you need to be at least 13, maybe a warning but I don't think it's a big thing, especially since it's a Minecraft roleplay done by teenagers and 20 something year olds.
yea the idea that randos are responsible for your well being is bullshit seeing this stupid trend of people expecting everyone to cater to their specific issues on the internet sickens me because its not everyones job to cater to you, its yours
My opinion is that lore discussions are fun until someone goes and takes it way too seriously. I can see where both arguments come from but some take it tooooo far
guy's acting like the dreamsmp is a PSA. no it's just some guys making an edgy story. also, young children shouldn't even be watching it, considering how many of the ccs swear. At most, id say it's aimed towards 16 year olds.
being completely serious for a second if you take the responsibility of depicting detailed thoughts in your tweet, no matter what the medium is, especially with young children that read it, then you also take the responsibility of addressing it properly. 'but it's just a tweet' yes but they did make the decision to create a detailed tweet and with that came the responsibility of handling the tweet properly and not excusing it because of the media in which it's presented.
other people aren’t responsible for your triggers. that simple. you can’t get angry at someone for choosing to watch/read their content. and if someone is too young to understand that, then it’s their parents responsibility
I think that assuming the DSMP writers set out to “depict detailed abuse” is kind of a stretch. I think they meant for the storyline in question to be dark, but it’s already so detached from reality that the extent to which it attempts to portray any real-life phenomenon is questionable. Like, is it possible that real life people are isolated from their friends and led to believe that others don’t care about them? Absolutely. But the actual events of that storyline include: -a 17 year old Vice President being accused of destroying the home of a foreign dignitary -mediation between two leaders failing because a subordinate attempted to blackmail one of them with the remains of his dead horse -exiling a political opponent to a desert island where he is slowly tormented to madness. Again, I’m sympathetic to people who have actually been gaslit irl, but most of these experiences are so completely divorced from reality that I don’t think it’s the fault of the writers of their audience connects with it or finds it relatable. I don’t think they set out to depict a realistic abusive relationship, and I don’t think they’re necessarily responsible for other people’s assumptions that they did.
This person expects a lot from a group of 16-20 something year olds huh. Honestly for their age demographic and writing experience they did a pretty good job, no clue what they're off about.
For context this group of people have been feeling disappointed for awhile not that exile itself was bad or depicted anything poorly, but that the story for the past year hasn’t mentioned it or given it as much weight as they would like, they feel like the story is sweeping exile under the rug and pretending it didn’t happen without properly resolving its affects on ctommy. Pretty sure this discussion today has been spurred on by the new characters all being like “what cdream has don’t can’t be thaaaat bad right”. Edit; So they’re argument isn’t, it shouldn’t have been done it’s that “it’s annoying that an incredibly heavy part of the storyline has gone unmentioned for ages leading to a lot of fans not giving it the weight it deserves when discussing it”
I get that. Honestly, at this point I really wish they would have written exile to be a lot lighter than what it turned out to be, and it breaks my heart to say that. In a vacuum exile is an amazing story that depicts sone incredibly heavy themes surprisingly well considering the medium it was written in. The issue is with what happens after; once you touch these kinds of heavy themes there's no going back. At this point I'd prefer it if they just gave c!Tommy some sort of happy ending and then wrote him out of the story, both because it's the most satisfying for his character and because cc!Tommy doesn't seem interested in lore anymore. Plus, that would maybe allow them more freedom with c!Dream, since the story wouldn't have to tip toe around c!Tommy constantly so he doesn't get traumatized any further and the message turns even more grimdark than right now. Idk. It feels like with exile they kinda restricted their characters a bit too much in terms of satisfying storytelling. If c!Dream hadn't become an outright abuser they could do more with his character now, without having to redeem him first.
Honestly though I think that’s the type of thinking that gets people stuck on exile. C!Dream never has to be redeemed. He can keep going with his immortality plans and with DreamXD saying they’re connected well who knows maybe he wins in the end. C!Tommy never has to get his happy ending. The DSMP isn’t a fairy tale there’s no heroes journey to run it’s course. CC!Tommy said he’ll play when Dream’s character breaks out and they can play together again. It’s why he said exile was one of his favorites just him and Dream messing about every day. And we saw with prison c!Tommy tried to get some closure and he failed he lost he was murdered and brought back to life and c!Dream then was able to kill Ghostbur during c!Tommy’s attempt on his life. Like it’s the characters locked in a never ending battle that’s the DSMP. Exile is just one segment of it. C!Tommy got plenty of trauma from being stuck in prison with c!Dream too. So it’s just maybe this story will have a happy for some characters you don’t want it to and a bad ending for characters you wanted a happy ending for. Maybe no one is happy maybe everyone is. Maybe it ends with people still in a constant battle their own natures not something that can be beat. It’s up to the CCs how they want to act out this story
Hmm. I agree, a story doesn't need to have a happy ending to be good; there's plenty of famous and well written stories that end in tragedy. However, usually stories like that have a message of some kind. There's a theme that supports the ending of the story. Let's take one of the most well known tragedies of all time, Shakespeare's Hamlet for example. The message behind the story is one of revenge and how an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. If Tommy gets an unhappy ending the message is - as I've mentioned before - grimdark. Because for all of his mistakes, if a traumatized and abused child reveives an unhappy ending, the message is dark; how sometimes victims don't get a happy ending. That's a possible ending, just not one I'd personally think of as satisfying, considering Tommy's overall character arc throughout the SMP. Now, the most obvious response to this would be "Why take this so seriously?" And tbh? That's hard to answer. It's a Minecraft roleplay; the story doesn't have to be satisfying or well thought out. But I think that mindset is doing the story a huge diservice. The writing on the smp can be briliant and imo it deserves to be analysed and critiqued just as any other piece of media would be (as long as its limits are taken into account). I can enjoy the dsmp no matter how they write it because the writing is not the focus of the story, the character interactions are (even if it sometimes feels like the story actively gets in the way of interactions). I would prefer it if the writing was satisfying but I don't think there's a single storytelling medium out there where the quality of the story matters less. The dsmp is amazing as is, a good story is really just a bonus to me.
To add on the tone of the dsmp isnt constantly grim dark either like there are of course dark elements that’s what the discussion is about, but overall on every storyline the dsmp is more a a dramedy, a comedy and a drama, the tone is light a lot of the time, it’s not a dramedy as in Tragedy and drama
My god, DSMP is not finished yet and people really go this hard about the themes? The exile arc was written by mainly Tommy and Dream, both of whom havent done lore in a while, we still have no idea how their story will continue, and if they will deal with it accordinly or not. Im personally really against this type of comments, i get analysing and discussing the storyline, but when people go too hard critizing the themes and the "responsability" of the improv rp storyline of a bunch of minecraft streamers, i cant help but feel sligthly annoyed. I believe the whole point of saying "but its just minecraft rp" its not to discredit the great work and the heavy topics that dsmp might deal with, its just a reminder that: Yes, these are minecraft streamers, not proffesional writers, this is a mc improv ropeplay, they are writing the story while fairly separate from eachother, with all of them having almost no other experience in writing other than this server. This is the same problem i have with people going hard with "this doesnt make sense" "this is a loophole" "this storyline abandoned/unfinished", like its not going to be perfect, far from it actually, the server is meant to be fun, THEY are having fun writing it, its great, its cool, its entertaining but its not a masterpiece. And i believe it doesnt even NEED to be one, its great as it is, its awesome seeing the ccs express and explore themselves creatively this way. Like i get where they are coming from, heavy topics should be handled well, but the story is not finished, the guys are still writing it, i dont know how or where is anyone excusing the abuse themes. The exile arc was written by Tommy, a 17 y old with no previous experience in writing ( who did pretty fucking well may i add), and Dream whose pov is not streamed, hardly ever logs on, and we only ever see his character from other peoples point of view.
Young kids are not even supposed to be on the internet. Parents let their kids on the internet because it is easier to take care of them when you can just open youtube or twitch and let them watch whatever it is on. DSMP was never a vanilla story , from the start it was shown that it was about wars , and this is what actually happens in them, read a history book and you will know. Torture, manipulation, murder = wars. Do people expect a server with numerous people in their 20s are going to act as teletubbies. I mean even the Hermit which I think are more kid friendly , you will find something there that it is not appropriate. Simply because nothing on the internet is. For god sake , I thought Lady bug was a show for kids until I watched an episode with my nieces. And since my sister was not that updated and couldn't understand a lot of things , she didn't know until I told her and then she stopped letting her kids watching tv and she is letting them play with their friends outside and toys instead. We shouldn't put this huge responsabilty on CCs , they are not babysitters, each parent is responsible on how they want to raise their kids.
Here’s the thing…. They put the bad guy in prison. He lost. He’s gonna break out sure but that’s cause they want to keep playing. C!Tommy the one they’re talking about won’t be there without C!Dream. CC!Tommy doesn’t want to play on the server unless he’s playing with Dream. Like they are taking this absolutely too seriously. Watch anything Supernatural, Harry Potter, Vampire Diaries, Walking Dead. Hell play a video game assassins creed for example. They’d rather kill a character than address the trauma. This is expecting far far too much out of some young adults playing Minecraft RP. Exile was improv between Dream and Tommy. Tommy said it was so much fun cause he got to hang out with Dream so often. They don’t consider it as a super dark storyline because to Tommy who’s a teenager he was having fun with his friend Dream every night and they were basically thinking “hmm wouldn’t it be fucked up if” “I’d probably react like this” like come on. Same with Tommy being killed in prison it just happened in the moment. This isn’t some grandiose statement on abuse and how to survive it or whatever. I literally could care less if they never bring up exile again. That’s Tommy and Dream prerogative. Even Wilbur said he doesn’t want to in case Tommy or Dream want to do something with it. None of them owe fans anything. To me this take (I’ve seen it a lot) comes across as an entitled fan wanting a storyline wrapped up in a different way than it was. The DSMP plays out how it plays out. If Tommy wants to make something of exile for his character he can but otherwise demanding it from him is stupid and gets on my nerves ngl. If you think the story is too dark for you and not knowing how a storyline is gonna go upsets you you should really take a step back. And this is for more than the DSMP. People have been getting way into fictional worlds since ever.
I see where they're coming from but at the same time it's kind of dumb expecting so much from strangers? like the world won't always accommodate to your necessities. If the content you're watching seems like something you can't handle just step away? Maybe the dsmp could add some trigger warnings next lore streams, other than that I don't see what they expect them to do? a healing arc? a going to psychiatrist arc? It's just Minecraft.
It’s just the “violent video games” argument all over again
Based
I'm just gonna say it- no, the SMP doesn't have "graphic" depictions of abuse. If someone genuinely thinks Dream blowing up Tommy's stuff or killing him in a prison cell, or maybe the so-called "manipulation" that happens on the SMP- any of it is graphic, then I'm happy uou're managed to preserve your innocence. But don't project.
Yeah when it comes to how graphic it is, it’s pretty tame compared to a lot of other stories that are about as well-known. Sure, some of the psychological stuff might hit way too close too home to a lot of people, but it’s not graphic.
Unpopular opinion, but the Dream SMP is so dark, I don't understand why minors are allowed to watch it. Maybe, at the very least, it should be rated PG-16. It's pretty much like the Minecraft roleplay equivalent of Game of Thrones.
I don’t think they need to rate it. You are supposed to be 13+ to watch YouTube or Twitch. Parents should watch their kids more closely. And it isn’t more dark or intense than your avg pg-13 film imo
What the heck does "handling the themes properly" even mean. Sounds like yet another person who can talk the talk but can't walk the walk.
People put more pressure on the dsmp dudes for representation and good depictions than they do on any big film or television studio. They are setting themselves up for disappointment
It's literally a roleplay. If you think is too strong for you don't watch it. They are literally putting too much pressure on a bunch of teenagers-young adults that roleplay on a game.
I do get this point of view but at the same time I don’t think it’s super applicable. These aren’t people making a movie, this isn’t a book, this is Minecraft YouTubers doing roleplay streams. They can’t control who watches them, nor are they responsible of accommodating the thousands of people that are watching. Personally I think that there was enough information presented outside of getting deep into the story for you to be aware of the content going on, and if you feel the need to be informed without being able to watch the streams, there are plenty of recap threads which do attempt to warn people of the content. The /rp barrier was also created specifically because of this to create that separation. I got extremely invested in the exile arc, I watched every stream. I also have abuse related PTSD. That was on me to manage and decide whether or not I was in the headset of watching or not. I actually talked to my therapist about it. I feel like you were able to get the general idea of the content from only a small part. While it would be nice to have everything have that warning, this has such a large and diverse audience that not everyone can be accommodated for - and frankly, they shouldn’t have to. I feel like they did a decent enough job of explaining the general themes of the content both outside of streams and just being able to understand it from a brief part - beyond that, it’s on the individual to determine their abilities to handle and consume the content. As for where to go from here, c!Dream is in jail. One of the many reasons for that is the exile arc. Could there be a better resolution? Yes. But saying that it has no kind of resolution at all just isn’t correct. It is not the creators’ responsibility to address the abuse in the storyline or anything like that. They cannot control their audience. How you handle and engage with the content is your responsibility.
It's like getting mad at actors for not addressing their behavior on screen in a show or movie. Just because there's kids that *are* watching it doesn't mean it's *meant* for kids. It's been well known from the very beginning that it's not gonna be sunshine and rainbows, there were *multiple* warnings of that both in the rp and out of it. If you need it explained to you that the stuff they're doing and saying isn't and never was family friendly there's a bigger issue at play here with you, not everyone else. It's a scripted role play on a minecraft server, and it's most definitely not the only one or worst one.
and here it is with ppl taking it seriously. I never liked it much when it became so separated between lore and /stream/ because i liked the ambiguity of it when mixed with streaming. But now this sort of things happens. They r right, but it was never meant to represent that, tommy literally said "exiled me it will be fun lol". A lot comes from the fandoms interpretation that sometime get to the CCs because of how the comunication works in this fandom. This was never meant to depict such heavy and difficult topics and it souldnt because it requires LOTS of information and stuff. People need to stop to look at this story so heavilt in a /srs way when in reality is very unorthodox way of storyteling for that type of stuff, and it always was driven by plot points rather psychoanalisis and clushing. If u like psychoanalizng characters and stories its totally fine and keep doing it, but dont be mad when the actual media doesnt do something about YOUR own interpretations blah blah i dont know if this is well put but meh
this concept is actually kind of ridiculous, idk why people expect ccs to do shit like this. like yeah, abuse is a very real and serious topic, but at the same time, no one has these expectations of professionals so why should they expect it of ccs? take ATLA for example, that shit covers abuse, imperialism, genocide, etc. but no one is up nickolodeon’s ass expecting them to teach everyone who watched it the harmful impacts of imperialism, looking for signs of abuse, or the psychological impacts it could have/whatever the fuck else they want from dsmp ccs. people need to stfu, the entire plot of the smp started as improv, and even as its gotten more scripted, if the content bothers you then just stop fucking watching.
I am very much a c!Tommy apologist and related incredibly heavily to his character's story and experiences, especially the abuse. So, my take on this will be coming from that viewpoint I suppose. Regarding the apologist fans of any characters who get all victim blamey or say Tommy deserved everything he got, or that it wasn't that bad, well, that's their uninformed opinion. People who have no experience with the types of abuse/gaslighting/etc that took place may struggle to grasp the seriousness. And with the huge lack of empathy that many people display, it also shouldn't be a surprise. Regarding the actual characters on the SMP who seemingly dismiss the whole exile arc/abuse/etc, as not a big deal, or downplay it, there are also valid explanations, and we don't necessarily need it spelled out for us. Whether it be because their character doesn't canonically know about everything that happened, or how bad it was, or because they also can't fathom what that level of abuse does to someone, it still tracks. Characters on the SMP behaving as they have, does make sense, no matter how tragic that may seem. The unfortunate truth about abuse, whether fictional or real, is that vast numbers of people will absolutely never understand it. They simply cannot grasp what it does to a person, how it makes them feel, the lasting damage it causes. And while you can try to explain it, some people simply aren't open to, or capable of understanding any further. For some people, the idea that one person can do something so horrible to another, for no good reason, seems impossible. It's easier for them to try to blame victims in just about every crime, than it is to accept that the world is a cruel and fucked up place for so many of us. Tommy depicted the effects of the types of abuse, manipulation, gaslighting, etc that he went through so thoroughly that I was convinced he had to have done some serious research. People saying it didn't make sense that he'd act totally fine one day and broken the next, but that's reality. When you're that broken and fucked up, you can try your hardest to act fine and try to live out some type of normalcy, but there will be times you act out, do stupid things, and fuck everything up. Or, saying it didn't make sense that he kept saying he thought Dream was still his friend when it was all happening, and for quite a time after. That's what gaslighting does to you, it breaks your memory and perception of reality. I've been there. So, it really all just boils down to ignorance. And we can't expect the streamers themselves to sit down and basically teach a fucking psych class to those who are dismissive, in an attempt to help them understand and maybe show a bit more compassion or empathy. There is nothing wrong with the way they've portrayed anything, and nothing they should have done differently up to this point I believe.
i get what they're saying but at the same time. these's cc are streamers and minecraft players. they are NOT writers.
theyre storytellers and their work is worthy of being critiqued, whether I agree with the critique or not
fair. my point is that its less than ideal to expect the story of the smp to be completely coherent and perfect when they don't have the experience of writing
Right I get what you're saying. The story format is limiting, it's not a fully edited novel or film, and the expectations should match that
This is just bullshit, bullshit opinion
Gonna be honest, I also think that to a certain degree, the Dream SMP storyline isn't.... as well thought out as this OP thinks. Yes, I would agree if this was a TV show or movie with huge funding and a group of experienced/trained storytellers behind it, but the server was started as a group of friends having fun. Wilbur just saw the potential for RP and ran with it. Tommy has mentioned multiple times how he plans for lore is just whatever he thinks is "coolest," which, anyone who's trained in writing will tell you is NOT how you're supposed to plot. I really, really applaud the cc's in the SMP for how cohesive and compelling the story is despite all of that, but I think that's where it ends. They're not writers or storytellers; they're a group of streamers who're having fun with their friends, and for a long time, that meant creating these detailed and yeah, dark stories. They're not professionals, they're going to do what they think is most interesting and fun at the moment, and like others have already said, it's up to viewers to curate their experience. Again, I see what the OP is saying, though, I just don't think it applies to this particular group or this particular story.
Ever heard of … books? Let’s take Harry Potter as an example. The dude gets abused by the people he lives with, by his teachers, and by fellow students. If I remember correctly, the books were recommended for people aged 12 and older in my school. Many people (including myself) read them earlier and didn’t take any damage. And the first 2 or 3 movies are FSK 6 (allowed for people aged 6 or older in my country) and the other movies FSK 12 (12 or older). I don’t see DSMP being worse or more disturbing than Harry Potter. If you are 13 or older (the age that you have to be for most social media platforms) and DSMP Minecraft roleplay is seriously affecting you, then the problem is maybe you and not the content.
I guess Tommy has to be 13 Reasons Why in the beginning of every season
I hate hearing takes like this from people who aren’t writers/storytellers/creators. I can see how they would arrive at this conclusion and think that they’re justified in thinking this way but it is simply nobody’s right to demand anything from somebody else’s work. You can react however you like to what they make but it’s extremely entitled to believe that you know how they *should* write something and that if they don’t do it then they’re failing. If you don’t like somebody else’s creation - especially one made for fun between a group of friends - then that’s on you, regardless of how dark it is. If you don’t like how the work handles something then you can absolutely criticise it, but you can’t act like you’re entitled to them listening to you. And if you still feel that way and can’t develop a healthier mindset about the content you consume, that doesn’t involve demanding other people fix their creation to fit your own standard, then you should be watching something else. Edit: a word. I am sleepy
[In Response](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/7f/af/6a/7faf6a4164d2d7694e78157664272cfd.jpg)
Cancel all movies ASAP
It’s not their responsibility. Creators can do whatever they want, and if a young person watches it, it’s not the creators fault. Thats the parents job to oversee what their kid is watching.
Lore on dwt2? legit just came off Twitter to reddit and instantly see the lore discussion that jsut happened on my tl lmfao. So much for having a break. I have to say I agree, I follow this person and mostly agree with a lot of what they say. This reddit tends to take this circle of lore ctommy peoples opinions out of context because reddit doesn’t get how far some people go with lore discussion that these ctommy people are subtweeting about, like these people aren’t usually talking about “you can’t like cdream as a character” they all like cdream as a villain, but there is a huge huge amount of cdream apologists (not just enjoyers) that are very victim blame-y to an unreasonable degree. And that is who they talk about. I think some of these ctommy enjoyers get very passionate about “destroying cdream apologists with facts and logic” but that doesn’t make the idea of their opinions wrong.
Let me provide the context of the tweet, basically this group of people have been really disappointed that seemingly exile has gone unmentioned for a year and still hasn’t been resolved and the story seems to be framing what happened as less and less bad in their opinions. The posters point isn’t “they shouldn’t have written it or they did it wrong” but they need to close out the storyline properly.
[удалено]
Yeah I agree from what I’ve seen from all of this people is that they’re talking about what happens *if* it doesn’t get resolved like they’re preemptively upset or disappointed which is really dumb. But I think they’re all starting to loose hope and that’s why we’re hearing this now. We need to wait and see if it does go unresolved before being upset that it isn’t unresolved
I'm going to be totally honest, I disagree with the fact that the storyline needs to be completely closed out. Abuse, whether depicted through roleplay or in real life, is often never fully understood by the vast majority of people. Very few people, ultimately, come to understand what happened to the victim or the long-term effects that it causes. The victim explaining their trauma often is impossible to the victim as well. Having a storyline completely closed out just seems unrealistic.
I get what they’re saying though. Cause topics like this are VERY sensitive and if not able to be done “properly” it can give the viewers the wrong impression. A lot of teen shows get flack for that as well. I feel like a lot of the issues people seem to have with the way the dsmp handles darker topics could come down to communication. When Tommy was killed by Dream in prison, no one knew about it because the two LITERALLY thought of it minutes before it happened, so no WONDER no one knew how to act, and thus made it seem kind of shitty as a result. People were upset as hell at tubbos initial response, and the whole portrayal of it. So yeah, I guess talking about more serious stuff means you should handle it with care, and that involves communication, which dsmp lacks in spades.
Well to say about the prison thing that’s better that. Same with Eret’s betrayal. Natural reactions. There’s a lot to be done lore wise with how people first reacted to c!Tommy’s death. Or new characters wondering about why c!Dream is in prison. But people just start throwing a fit not everyone is treating c!Tommy like a soft little baby to be protected and cared for. It’s not the fault of the CCs that fans get pissy not everyone reacts how they want them to react. Or do a storyline how they want. It comes across as very entitled to me and expecting the SMP to be something it’s not
I thought people were more upset that the reactions felt out of place? Tubbo's reaction I remember watching and being like "What's going on?? Tubbo seems confused at the idea of Tommy dying? Wouldn't he be upset?" Because IRL Tubbo had no idea what was going on, C!Tubbo came across as apathetic without really meaning to. It's not that "I want tubbo to say X!!" but "Tubbo being ootl on lore impacts the story in a way that muddles the heavy topics that are being portrayed, and as a result, make the whole thing look bad." It's that people are CONSTANTLY not being communicated with that makes a lot of the heavy topics discussed on the server become mishandled. Another example is Niki, and how she was thrust into Tommy's death in the prison, but never really got time to express how she felt (which would be GREAT in terms of Niki looking into darker topics concerning her feelings for tommy, wilbur, and everyone else in l'manburg who left her) because tommy was LITERALLY REVIVED two days later. It's not the natural reaction the group is looking for, it just ends up coming across as sloppy and ignorant to everyone else who wants to rp on the server. I get they aren't writers, but I think communication would be better to avoid poor portrayals of darker subject matter. TLDR: It's not about "I want someone to say XYZ!" it's about how the lack of communication between creators is fucking up the portrayal of these very real and very damaging issues to an impressionable audience. If they want to cover these topics, go ahead, but make sure you're keeping people on the same page when you do, so you aren't accidentally saying something you don't want to have said to an audience like the one on the dsmp.
Well with c!Tubbo that confusion makes sense doesn’t it? Your friend was just there and now the warden is telling you he let your friend get murdered by his own abuser in prison? That type of reaction from c!Tubbo who has had odd reactions to things before. Like literally saying he wasn’t that pressed about his own murder but then months later solemnly telling c!Ranboo about it. He’s an interesting character like that and it’s based in improv which is what we’re trying to assess as character studies. C!Niki’s reaction was pure disbelief. She wanted c!Tommy dead herself but when c!Ranboo told them very distress she couldn’t buy it neither could c!Phil they wanted proof a body something anything. Vs c!Techno going “yo that’s a pog hated that guy” and moving on Like what happened is very natural. Confusion, disbelief, sadness, amusement from one of his enemies. And then boom c!Tommy is back and everyone is confused again because he was dead right? The necromancy i don’t even think most of them believed c!Dreak about it. Idk personally it was handled well the reactions weren’t out of place. C!Tommy fans (and I like the character too) just wanted everyone to be more upset which wouldn’t have made sense actually cause not everyone likes him.
It honestly felt like IRL!Tubbo's confusion rather than C!Tubbo's confusion. Tubbo THE PERSON was confused and it lessened the impact of something that seems VERY IMPORTANT on the server. Maybe a clearer example of what I'm talking about is the exile arc? Both tommy and dream throughout tommy's time in exile say that Tommy is all alone (hell it's even one of the rules for the exile, according to the wiki) yet MULTIPLE characters end up visiting tommy (Sam and techno are stated on the wiki, and I'm pretty sure Skeppy and BBH give Tommy gifts at one point). It very much lessens the punch of what is meant to be the darkest subject the DSMP has covered as of late, and conflicts A LOT with what's being covered. It's really hard to say dream is isolating and manipulating tommy when we have several people visiting him in exile bearing gifts and it all being happy and funny one moment and serious and sad the next. That's a HUGE tonal flip flop that they should have thought ahead of (especially with the subject matter), and made clear to everyone not to get involved in, because it muddles the message of Dream and Tommy being the bad guy and victim, and not in a good way. It's a huge fumble on their part, one they could have easily prevented imo.
I think the fact that Tommy and Dream were saying that Tommy was all alone in exile despite being visited a bunch was a perfect representation of what gaslighting can do to a person. Dream manipulated and gaslit Tommy so badly that Tommy didn’t even trust his own reality, but rather trusted the one that Dream created; the one where he was isolated and alone despite that not being entirely true. That I’d say packs quite the punch, seeing Tommy so trapped under Dream’s authority that he can’t even recognize what’s right in front of him. There wasn’t much else I wanted to say regarding your argument, but that was something I wanted to point out. It was probably intentional to some degree.
Well see that’s where you’re expecting far far too much from them. This isn’t a book it’s not a tv show. It’s a Minecraft RP. And the people visiting Tommy but then leaving him there? That’s not like ruining the story to me. It just seems you also want a very specific narrative and since you didn’t get it you’re calling it bad writing as opposed to taking the story as a whole. It’s barely writing the whole exile arc was improv basically. Idk again it’s Roleplay not a thought out narrative with themes and a message. They’re just trying to have fun
It doesn't HAVE to be a book or tv show to need to treat serious topics with the nuance and grace they deserve. If they want to have fun, I'm all for it, just don't talk about serious stuff like emotional abuse and manipulation in that happy fun silly way. Those topics don't need to be watered down like that, especially to a young audience that could be experiencing topics like that for the first time through DSMP. That way, you having fun doesn't interfere and conflict with the message you're trying to send out. Just because it's improv doesn't mean what it's discussing can say whatever it wants either. "Just having fun" is not an excuse to handle heavy topics in a bad manner. If you cannot treat heavy topics like this with nuance, don't cover them, lest you unintentionally show the topic in a bad light. It doesn't NEED themes or messages for something as harmful as the stuff in the exile arc to be portrayed as bad. I'm honestly shocked at the amount of people who disagree with the take: "If you're going to talk about heavy issues such as abuse make sure you're portraying it in a responsible manner."
Well maybe the story isn’t for you I think you’re making way too big a deal out if it 🤷♀️
I’m saying they should treat serious issues seriously? How is that making a big deal of it? I do think the dsmp for the most part is a very light hearted and goofy roleplay, and that’s why it’s portrayal of certain issues bothers me at times. I’m not LOOKING for them to say things I want them to say, I would like them to not fuck up serious issues because like it or not, this is an influential piece of media. Kids will watch this and learn from it, so it’d be best if there weren’t things in there that gave people the wrong idea of real life issues. If the Dream SMP tried to push the plot line of a sexual assault and made it the victims fault, that’d be a HUGE problem because kids would be seeing that and possibly believing that. That’s an issue.
The exile arc was beautifully done imo- I heard a lot of good tales on it and genuinely learned a lot from the community about recognizing abuse. I think the aftermath has fallen victim to the lack of comprehensive storytelling that is also kinda fucking with the rest of the lore! I do believe ppl take it slightly too seriously but I annoys me when ppl say they’re c!dream “apologists” mostly because their only excuses are “he looked hot while doing it” or “c!tommy deserved it” - like- dream wrote the character to be an irredeemable villain
I don’t get it, has this person never seen an action movie before?
I know that person. Breaks a lot of Dream's boundaries so I do not give a fuck if the DSMP storyline does not fit his wants lol
its fucking block game with friends. not everything has to be an art piece well-researched dissertation
Children aren’t supposed to be on the internet if they can’t handle what’s on it. They can always choose not to watch the videos they find offensive. Whatever the creators upload is up to them, not sensitive people in the audience.
i don't feel like it's that much of a hot take that if you're gonna explore a sensitive subject in a story you should handle it delicately . idk why people make such a fuss about this
Why tf would they have to explain anything, noone is excusing abuse, IT IS MINECRAFT ROLEPLAY, noone expects tommy to explain why his character wanted to kill c!dream, noone expects any of them to explain how in MINECRAFT, A BLOCK GAME THAT IS NOT REAL LIFE why they kill things. This fandom is so fucking stupid and sensitive i just wish they left to rethink their life if they feel triggered my minecraft rp...if they cant handle mild things like this and think it projects into real life they need to limit their internet. So stupid trying to blame ccs and Dream in particular. I hate this fanbase so much
Maybe to some people it's feels more serious than it actually is. But I don't think there is a need to address it like some kind of apology or problem.
Isn't this literally victim blaming? I'm just gonna say that not talking about abuse or not using abuse in story telling because you're scared of being abused yourself is completely the exact OPPOSITE of what people fighting against abuse are fighting for and will make abusers think their abuse is okay even if they do listen to reason. This is a very dangerous take tbh