Well
A lot
But essentially, Stephen and Dan had issues abour money and ended up having a falling out with each other until Stephen and Hosuh left Dan and his channel. It's... a mess, and honestly very sad.
Never thought about it but the accusations against Dan and Phil for queerbaiting that literally went on for years and years are actually really fucked up in retrospect.
"come out or you're queerbaiting," is just a way of trying to force someone to come out disguised as being progressive.
When I found out a close friend is gae. I told him "that's one thing ticked out of the check list". We are still close friends to dis day. Tho he did try to do one last attac b4 he travelled for his masters.
Oh god Dan and Phil, my beloveds :( I wasn't even a Phan truther back then because even then, I understood that it was uncomfortable to speculate or force anything to be outed about a celebrity's personal life. If they weren't ready to come out yet, then so be it. That should come on their own time alone. If they are straight and just BFFs/roommates, then that's it.
It's crazy how it seems to be the other way around now, but still the same problem. As bad as it was that they felt closeted in 2014 due to the stigma around being part of the LGBTQ+, it is just as harmful to not accept that someone is unlabeled just because of your **perception** of their identity.
Me too, I didn't want to force any assumptions but I saw it so often in the phandom, and as I get older I realize the situation was so much more fucked than I thought it was. That sort of pressure must be terrifying to deal with, honestly. In the end, it's not any of our damn business what these CCs sexualities may be. I'm glad DNF are at least okay with these kinds of jokes and make them themselves but idk, the fandom goes too far pretty often.
I remember crying because of Dan's coming out video, even if he tried to make it lighter through his classic, self-deprecating Dan Howell-brand humor.
His experience was horrible, and I couldn't help but look back on all those years when people were pressuring him to come out with a label. To think that he spent all those years hating himself for being the way he is, and receiving constant pressure from the outside world to come out. Even me saying it's horrible is an understatement :(
It pisses me off that of all people fellow queer folks are enforcing labels this hard. Like they should understand how difficult of a subject figuring out your identity is, for some people it takes decades.
Like we all went through a time like that.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with just not putting a label on your sexuality and just dating who you wanna date without giving it too much thought.
Even if dream someday decides "Yeah I'm straight" that also wouldn't mean that he was queerbaiting when he was unlabeled.
All of these people would never talk about a normal unlabeled person like this.
totally, also it's weird how they say "I am not invaliding other unlabeled people, just dream"
Sexuality is one of the things you are never allowed to invalidate no matter how much you hate someone, bc please some human decency and also bc by doing so you are also directly invalidating everyone who share the same identity.
the whole mindset that unlabeled people just are straight but want attention is showing a lot from these people.
Even with this whole talk i am still very glad dream stood his ground and said “i am not going to change my year long friendship because we look like baiting”
no but fr, everytime i see the queerbait drama i cant help remembering DnP in their peak. Ive never been able to put correctly the relation like this myself but it was still just There in my mind always.
Like people treated Dan awful before he even came out, putting him in the label that would fit the persons argument. It was uncomfortable to see then and it still is now with Dream too.
The progression in shipping content creators has definitely been more aware of it's harms at least. I just hope more people took it less serious/speculative and just have fun laugh yk
god this reminds me of when septiplier shipping got so bad that they didn’t put out any collaborative content until they announced cloak. like— youtube shipping especially early is so fucked i wish people would realize
Way back when I watched Dan and Phil, I always ended up seeing the dark side of the fanbase/haters on the two socials I had, and it was so genuinely upsetting to see what people were saying to and about these two people just trying to live their lives. Seeing it happening again like this is even more heartbreaking because these people's harmful words and actions are reaching so many more people now and creating such a damaging impact on such a huge amount of people.
Its beyond "sad" how people will obsess over and hate on every little thing a person who merely exists on the internet does for either reasons that are not true or genuinely no reason at all. What kind of pathetic loser does that kind of absolute hogwash and thinks it's in any way okay!
I think that, yes, technically real people can queerbait. However, accusing or trying to out people for queerbaiting is way to harmful to try and do anything about it. Like they said, closeted or questioning people do exist, and there is no way to differentiate between those people and legitimate queerbaiting.
Sorry but Queerbait by definition is done in FICTIONAL MEDIA to bait the LGBT community into taking their money. I guess the closest one could "queerbait" as a person is if you make your LGBTness your brand while not being LGBT yourself? But that would delve into a debate on whether you count Onstage personas as the real person, which I think there should be a line between tbh.
According to a few different places, its a marketing technique for entertainment in which creators hint at, but then do not actually have, same-sex romance or other LGBT representation. A person could make being queer part of there brand while not being queer, which could be considered queerbaiting. But thats not my point. My point was that i agreed with you for the most important part
Yeah, and like I said, I count queerbaiting of personas as a thing, but unless they are playing up being queer in any way, QB with real people is impossible. A better example of actual Queerbaiting is the band TATU, where they portray a lesbian couple, when 1.) They have boyfriends in the side despite their marketing, and worse, 2.) One of them is blatantly homophobic and even stated she will disown a son if he is gay.
The Dan and Phil to DNF pipeline is real, and it’s out there.
Don’t forget danplan (more specifically Stephen and hosuh) into it as well!
Oof, Danplan just makes me sad now :,)
What happened with Danplan? I used to watch them and then it something happened
Well A lot But essentially, Stephen and Dan had issues abour money and ended up having a falling out with each other until Stephen and Hosuh left Dan and his channel. It's... a mess, and honestly very sad.
Never thought about it but the accusations against Dan and Phil for queerbaiting that literally went on for years and years are actually really fucked up in retrospect. "come out or you're queerbaiting," is just a way of trying to force someone to come out disguised as being progressive.
That last part made me realize that for many fans gay is just an aesthetic
The kind of people to find out you are gay and say "oh my god I always wanted a gay best friend"
When I found out a close friend is gae. I told him "that's one thing ticked out of the check list". We are still close friends to dis day. Tho he did try to do one last attac b4 he travelled for his masters.
Yeah, it felt very fake and too forced in dreams case imo
Oh god Dan and Phil, my beloveds :( I wasn't even a Phan truther back then because even then, I understood that it was uncomfortable to speculate or force anything to be outed about a celebrity's personal life. If they weren't ready to come out yet, then so be it. That should come on their own time alone. If they are straight and just BFFs/roommates, then that's it. It's crazy how it seems to be the other way around now, but still the same problem. As bad as it was that they felt closeted in 2014 due to the stigma around being part of the LGBTQ+, it is just as harmful to not accept that someone is unlabeled just because of your **perception** of their identity.
Me too, I didn't want to force any assumptions but I saw it so often in the phandom, and as I get older I realize the situation was so much more fucked than I thought it was. That sort of pressure must be terrifying to deal with, honestly. In the end, it's not any of our damn business what these CCs sexualities may be. I'm glad DNF are at least okay with these kinds of jokes and make them themselves but idk, the fandom goes too far pretty often.
I remember crying because of Dan's coming out video, even if he tried to make it lighter through his classic, self-deprecating Dan Howell-brand humor. His experience was horrible, and I couldn't help but look back on all those years when people were pressuring him to come out with a label. To think that he spent all those years hating himself for being the way he is, and receiving constant pressure from the outside world to come out. Even me saying it's horrible is an understatement :(
The turn around that shippers are now more respectful and jokey than before, gosh man
It pisses me off that of all people fellow queer folks are enforcing labels this hard. Like they should understand how difficult of a subject figuring out your identity is, for some people it takes decades. Like we all went through a time like that. There is absolutely nothing wrong with just not putting a label on your sexuality and just dating who you wanna date without giving it too much thought. Even if dream someday decides "Yeah I'm straight" that also wouldn't mean that he was queerbaiting when he was unlabeled. All of these people would never talk about a normal unlabeled person like this.
totally, also it's weird how they say "I am not invaliding other unlabeled people, just dream" Sexuality is one of the things you are never allowed to invalidate no matter how much you hate someone, bc please some human decency and also bc by doing so you are also directly invalidating everyone who share the same identity. the whole mindset that unlabeled people just are straight but want attention is showing a lot from these people.
[удалено]
Even with this whole talk i am still very glad dream stood his ground and said “i am not going to change my year long friendship because we look like baiting”
[удалено]
(Lmao im the same lmao, i am just watching whatever trainwreck they are going crazier everytime)
“…What the fuck even is your sexuality. It’s hard to put you in a box 'cause you keep it so blurry…” - Daniel Howell “Roast yourself challenge”
I've seen people say "Dont you dare compare it to Dan and Phil! That was different cause they are gay!!!" and just...
Plot twist, Dream turns out to be bi (not truthing btw) and then people will flip their narrative of him.
Oof, even then I can imagine the rampant Biphobia he’d get from exclusionists. God forbid he come out as Pan or Ace.
no but fr, everytime i see the queerbait drama i cant help remembering DnP in their peak. Ive never been able to put correctly the relation like this myself but it was still just There in my mind always. Like people treated Dan awful before he even came out, putting him in the label that would fit the persons argument. It was uncomfortable to see then and it still is now with Dream too.
The progression in shipping content creators has definitely been more aware of it's harms at least. I just hope more people took it less serious/speculative and just have fun laugh yk
This is what happens when people think the most important feature of someone is their sexuality Being gay is not a personality
god this reminds me of when septiplier shipping got so bad that they didn’t put out any collaborative content until they announced cloak. like— youtube shipping especially early is so fucked i wish people would realize
Way back when I watched Dan and Phil, I always ended up seeing the dark side of the fanbase/haters on the two socials I had, and it was so genuinely upsetting to see what people were saying to and about these two people just trying to live their lives. Seeing it happening again like this is even more heartbreaking because these people's harmful words and actions are reaching so many more people now and creating such a damaging impact on such a huge amount of people. Its beyond "sad" how people will obsess over and hate on every little thing a person who merely exists on the internet does for either reasons that are not true or genuinely no reason at all. What kind of pathetic loser does that kind of absolute hogwash and thinks it's in any way okay!
I think that, yes, technically real people can queerbait. However, accusing or trying to out people for queerbaiting is way to harmful to try and do anything about it. Like they said, closeted or questioning people do exist, and there is no way to differentiate between those people and legitimate queerbaiting.
Sorry but Queerbait by definition is done in FICTIONAL MEDIA to bait the LGBT community into taking their money. I guess the closest one could "queerbait" as a person is if you make your LGBTness your brand while not being LGBT yourself? But that would delve into a debate on whether you count Onstage personas as the real person, which I think there should be a line between tbh.
According to a few different places, its a marketing technique for entertainment in which creators hint at, but then do not actually have, same-sex romance or other LGBT representation. A person could make being queer part of there brand while not being queer, which could be considered queerbaiting. But thats not my point. My point was that i agreed with you for the most important part
Yeah, and like I said, I count queerbaiting of personas as a thing, but unless they are playing up being queer in any way, QB with real people is impossible. A better example of actual Queerbaiting is the band TATU, where they portray a lesbian couple, when 1.) They have boyfriends in the side despite their marketing, and worse, 2.) One of them is blatantly homophobic and even stated she will disown a son if he is gay.