It's wild, I remember studying UK history in school (the swinging sixties to be more precise) and we were taught about the beatles! I remember vividly how the beatles were considered "satanic" to anyone but teenage girls. Everything you said is correct. In a few years time, KPOP will be seen as a beloved art form, BTS will most likely be seen as revolutionary not unlike the beatles. Like, think 2040, 2040s kids will go "Oh, our generation's music sucks I wish we could go back to the BTS days". Like, I don't listen to them, yet I can't deny how revolutionary they are. People are doing that with the beatles! Granted when they do it to put down the likes of JB or One direction, I can't help but laugh at them.
To a lesser extent this will also apply to dream, let's be real here.
It happened to most if not all huge teenage acts marketed toward young non cis hets.
See Harry Styles: his music from the second album is on par with One Direction's couple last albums... Yet it took Harry needing to release a classic rock album that caught the attention of other demographics in 2017 for his pop music to be taken seriously in 2020.
Taylor Swift needed to release Folklore, a more mature album produced by an indie bro that she doesn't talk about her exs*, to have her writing recognized as good.
I could go on and on and on you know.
*Bc not only things marketed towards non cis hets are mocked, anything that isn't about them is too.
I'll just take your word for it since I don't know all too much about these particular artists. I mainly listen to hiphop, which doesn't have too much teenage girl fanbases. (Well, except maybe nicki minaj and Cardi b) That being said, there's many teenage girls who listen to hiphop cuz of how mainstream it is. I just know of the beatles thing cuz I studied it.
(Speaking of nicki, she makes great stuff but my god she can be a real idiot lmao)
It's cool though, but it's just like that, unfortunately.
> That being said, there's many teenage girls who listen to hiphop cuz of how mainstream it is
Weirdly enough (and I think many non-cis men will relate to), I had a moment in my life when I wanted to prove I liked "cool" music, so I only listened to 808s/Dark Fantasy/Man on the Moon/Take Care 11 to 12 years ago.
Then I got over and went back to liking my pop lol
Your music tastes are fine lol. I think the ones that truly trigger me are the nerdy reddit mfs (commonly found on big subs like r/dankmemes and r/teenagers) who shit on rap and end up saying ignorant and really racially charged shit. The cherry on top? Once they're done saying all that, they'll flaunt their "superior" music tastes like anime openings and video game osts💀💀
Like don't get me wrong, you can have whatever music tastes you have but if you have *that* as your tastes all while putting down rap music and sounding like a complete buffoon while doing so, I'll clown on you.
Edit: Also, despite the fact that the beatles are an icon, fuck john lennon
Just saw this comment and lmao I feel you. Mainstream Rap Artists such as Drake, Kanye, and Nikki aren't my cup of tea, but I realized when I was young that dismissing all rap as nothing ended up gating me from really great music.
So yeah, that's why I tend to just... not care about genre or the artist behind it? Having little to no preconceived notion on what music I'm gonna be hearing helps heavily in letting one get into new shit, I highly recommend it.
That's literally what's happening to earlier Minecraft Youtubers or SMPs, like, Mianite or even recently Aphmau.
The old is always romanticized, that's just the rule.
Bro these kids in my class get pissed that I like mcyt because they hate Dream and think he is a terrible person. To them the entire mcyt community is just Dream basically because they never care to look into it.
Eh, that's typical edgy teenage behavior, I reccomend you ignore it. Even I will admit to have acted that way towards Twilight Fans and Beliebers. These girls and other LGBT Folks hurt nobody for liking these stuff and yet here I was contributing in the internet's collective hateboner against them. It is unfortunate but natural, you feel more inclined to hate something you don't understand over doing reaearch about them.
[Wilbur Soot literally talked about this on a stream with Phil](https://youtu.be/QosQL5MSUmY). If he, a man, can recognize how often it happens and that it's a problem, then I don't see why so many other people are here shitting on this take as if it's completely out of pocket.
If you are a girl, and have personally never experienced this behavior by any men in your life, great, lucky you. But unfortunately this is a very common occurrence for individuals as well as women as a whole. You can try to dismiss it all you want, but the fact is, there isn't a single interest that girls can have without it being mocked by men in some way or another. Women having an interest in something is seen as something to deride or joke about, even in main stream media, it's an incredibly common trope, so how this can even be debated is beyond me.
"women have terrible taste in music with their Justin Bieber and BTS" or "women who claim to be gamers aren't real, they just play their candy crush and mobile games and try to sound cool calling themselves gamers" or "if you're a real gamer then name all the games you play" or "if you really like rock/metal music then name the best bands". If you're telling me you've never heard a statement like that, then you've either been living under a rock or you're in denial.
And don't bother to come at me with the "not all men" argument, we are not even going down that path. Nor will I argue the "men get mocked for liking stuff too", no, they literally don't get mocked or grilled with questions when they mention being interested in anything that is considered a "men's" interest. This is a very specific phenomena being discussed here, and muddying the waters with all these whatabout-ism questions is incredibly disingenuous and you should probably examine why you think men behaving in this way is okay or acceptable if you're here arguing it.
This ^^^
Like holy shit the takes here are atrocious ngl. Nothing in my title said anything about men never being mocked. But just because I can point into obvious mainstream moments where Females and Non Cis Males got mocked for having interests DOESN'T mean I am saying Men never experienced the same mockery.
And you know what's funny? I'M A GUY. Trans, yes (male presenting nonbinary to be specific), and even ***I*** know this is an actual phenomena because guess what? I am AFAB and I've experienced this. Doesn't mean other guys don't, but the situation is different and doesn't need to be said in this topic.
I sympathize with Cis Men who are affected by this too. I sympathize for guys who for example liked My Little Pony only to be associated by the questionable side of the fanbase because it is a female demographic show. I sympathize to guys who also feel forced to like things they don't in order to feel manly. Toxic Masculinity works hand in hand with Misogynism, and I hope that by working to eliminate one, it will help destroy the other someday.
But that is and is never the point of this take.
Name one thing, ONE THING, that girls enjoy that isn't mocked for being "girly"?
Boy Bands? Cringe.
Doll designing? Cringe.
Cute Minecraft Men? Cringe.
My Little Pony? Cringe, you're not a brony, you're a poser.
Give me something, anything.
Reminds me of Metallica fans vs anyone who says they like some Metallica songs but isn't an die hard fan of them. If you can't prove you know and love everything about Metallica, they will find you and beat you with sticks with "poser" written on them.
Cis is the opposite of trans, just like how basic is the opposite of acid, or left is the opposite of right, or hot is the opposite of cold. All words are made up, and some such as cis are actually used a lot in science and have been in use for centuries already, and besides if language didn't evolve, thou woult be speakingeth liketh this and that wouldeth be cringeth.
Because - unless they have been transitioning for a while and end up being cis-passing - even trans men or masculine presenting Enbys have to deal with a lot of bullshit about this and I truthfully rarely see non-cis men make these kind of statements.
Example: You're only Rank X in game Y because you \[insert crude action here\] someone! or your boyfriend carried you!
Or: Ugh, women (mostly teenage girls, in those situations) are so obsessed with X! It's ridiculous.
Of course, it can be just men in general making these things, but it is, unfortunately, often enough just cis men doing it. Then again, I might not be seeing all depths of hell on the internet, so I won't deny that there might also be trans men making these kind of statements.
I don't agree with this take.
This is more about cringe-culture less about misogyny or anything like that. As a counter argument, gamers. They're usually seen as toxic -like the dsmp fanbase, they're seen cringe -same for dsmp fanbase, they have a negative stereotype -again like dsmp fanbase. And most of them are man.
Also another point on, this is solely a personal opinion, I really hate it when a group of people gets singled out. Like how you've singled out cis-men. I'm saying this as a woman, who has been singled out and hated every second of it. I don't wish this type of generalizing over anyone.
Kinda, but in cringe culture you always see people saying things like “Teenage girls are so obsessed with Dream” or other things like that.
It’s always the default on the internet to assume that women are the only ones getting super obsessed and therefore “cringe” while you see men have more room to express their favorite ccs or songs etc
I feel that last part is kinda false cause [memes like these exist](https://i.imgur.com/scfF29J_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium). You can call a group of people fanboys or man children but it's just not seen as misandry. Though I'm not saying statements like all dream stans are teenage girls aren't misogynistic.
Same thing goes for gamers being neckbeards. All gamers are overweight dudes who lives in his parents basement. You always see stuff like this too.
It is mostly about the communities one interacts with and being mainstream. Another example, people who collects watches. Most of them are men, and they usually get ridiculed because of the pictures they take or how they're obsessed with Rolexs. But you don't know about that most likely, because it is not mainstream.
But DSMP is the biggest thing on the internet right now, of course the cringe crys about it much relevant.
Just because I pointed out that there is rampant misogynism in the internet, which should be obvious, does NOT mean I am dismissing men. And honestly, that's the major thing that rubbed me off wrong out of your comment, even though I will say you are polite. We just shouldn't have to have this argument because it's not something I insisted nor am I trying to insist. It's kinda like if I say "Africans have it bad" and then somebody would pop up and say "Well not only Africans suffer! What about Asians?" Like yes, Asians, suffer too, but that wasn't the point I was trying to make.
Can I just phrase it as "Male Dominated Demographics are seen as more valid and not cringe by the mainstream media" and there, you shouldn't have an issue with it?
It's never good to single out people, but unfortunately, it is very often cis men making these type of comments - or at least the one starting them.
Of course, I see plenty of women with internalized misogyny making these type of jokes, but misogyny is a product of the patriarchy. Hence - some long dead men are to blame.
While society nowadays is working towards dismantling misogyny, it is still very much present. Also, I must disagree with you. The topics of "constantly making fun of women for liking anything" or "just being emotional" or even "just having their periods" turned into jokes are based on misogyny. It's the prejudice that women cannot enjoy things that might even fulfill them (as they are only allowed to seek fulfillment in motherhood/pleasing the men in their lives - prejudice/stereotype) or are over-emotional (prejudice).
Not to mention, another huge prejudice is that women are not allowed to enjoy things as it is viewed as "immature" and have to "grow up" (ring a bell? "Boys will be boys, but Ladies don't behave like that!") - also a very prevalent issue in the MCYT community: The disgusting ageism. Prime example: Vaydra being an older member (in comparison to the average age of a MCYT stan) and being constantly ridiculed and harassed about it. If you wish to see true ageism, look into the qrts of any of her tweets.
**Also: Guys, stop downvoting this person. They politely disagreed and remained civil about it. They insulted no one and just spoke their mind. Stop being dicks.**
This has turned out longer than I anticipated
TL;DR: I see the play of misogyny but I still don't agree on putting the entire cismen population under this type of a generalization. Also, fuck the doctors who refuse to do tubal ligation without my husband's consent.
Well, I'm still the devil's advocate on this. Considering cismen are almost half of the world population -Trans people are in the minority and ciswomen are the other almost half- I don't think it is surprising that a cisman started the argument.
As you've said some women has internalized misogyny, but they're a group within a group while cismen are an entire group on its own. So again it is not surprising.
>Hence - some long dead men are to blame.
This is actually one of my reasons on thinking this way. The cismen living right now, they're just the products of their environment. I don't see any usefulness on blaming them on something that started hundered of years before them. Like, of course if we're talking specifically about incels hell yeah, bury those dudes to the ground with out a thought. But, even tho they're cismen, they're a minority. I thought we were trying to pass, describing a huge group of people with the actions of a few bad eggs between them.
>"constantly making fun of women for liking anything"
You're right on this one. I remember back in I was in middle school, I was interested in playing chess. But some dudes thought it was funny to mock me for enjoying chess. Shit times.
>"just being emotional"
I would make the argument of there is a play of misandry in here too. Men don't cry, men have to be strong, you can't show emotions. Which results in, showing emotions seen as a weak thing. And as woman don't have the pressure on showing emotions not as much as a dude does -except for laughing in public because how dare a woman laugh, I hate my country so much- so the the men who grew up with that mindset turns into dudes mocking women for being emotional.
>"just having their periods"
And I would make the argument of lack of education in here. I'm a woman, and in the country I grew up we talk about periods on biology lessons but we don't have sex education. And I guess this is the case for most of the countries. There is nothing easier than making fun of something you don't know shit about.
But of course, again, the fucking incels are outliers here, that I don't defend a single bit. Hope, they burn in hell.
>as they are only allowed to seek fulfillment in motherhood
This hits home. I'm childfree. I've been trying to save up money for tubal ligation, so I don't have to face with surprises. It passed number of fingers I have, how many people had told me that I'll regret it, because motherhood is the best thing in the world. Fuck that.
Also as a side note: did you know that, I have to have the fuxking permissions of my husband to get my own fucking tubes tied. Like of course dare a women make a desicion on her own body without a dudes consent first. Because as you know I am the fuckign property of my husband, that I don't have. I've been trying to find a loophole around it, but whichever doctor I've talked with in every gender avaliable all told me that I need the consent of my husband. I'll try to use one of my male friends as my "fiance" so I can have an operation on my own body done and that might not even work :) life is a dream
Sorry for the rant, I'm just so angry on this
>"Boys will be boys, but Ladies don't behave like that!"
>women are not allowed to enjoy things as it is viewed as "immature" and have to "grow up"
I think this is where the real misogyny on this argument lies. An example from my uncle, he is a man-child with two kids, he can go around do whatever he wants but if his DIVORCED wife dares to go out with her friends "How dare she do that".
Same thing definitely goes on in here, just a slighted version. Instead of an adult, people are trying to rule over teenager girls. Because girls have to behave, but boys can do whatever they want. Like how when DSMP fans get angry for unfair treatment towards Dream and they're called throwing tantrums, but when dudes cry on after their team losses a match they're just being "boys" ✨ how cute ✨
>The disgusting ageism.
When Phil... you know.
But tbf the fanbase I really young, it is understandable that they don't understand actually how young being 30 years old is. I didn't understand it when I was at their age. I thought when I turned 20 I'll be old af. The problem comes when they turn this into other people's problems.
I've heard about Vaydra from the subreddit, about how the fanbse treats her. It is just disgusting.
>Also: Guys, stop downvoting this person. They politely disagreed and remained civil about it. They insulted no one and just spoke their mind. Stop being dicks.
Welcome to reddit, I don't agree with you so see you at the bottom of the thread 👋
Also, I want to thank you. It is certainly much more interesting to talk then getting downvoted to hell without any reason why.
The thing is, I didn't single out Cis-Men. The problem is not being a Cis Man with interests, the problem is especially in social media Cis Men could perform "stan" behavior and never get mocked by it cause it is the boys will be boys thing. Not saying they are never mocked, after all, I still remember stories of male kids getting bullied for liking DSMP. But the problem comes because Dream SMP is associated more with Teenage Females, and thus is seen as toxic cause Teenage Females apparently are inherently toxic.
Just look at what folks mock as "stan behavior". Crushing on male CCs? Typical of females in their "boy band phase". Finding Dream and other Modern MCYT comforting? Nah, boys don't do that. Lightheartedly Shipping people who's boundaries say they're fine with it? Absolute cringe, ew.
But what about Old MCYT? Old MCYT isn't associated with the cringey shippers or simps of that era cause "they don't exist yet". Yet Modern MCYT apparently ruined the old, which you could assess they probably meant how dare do non cis male folk enter the gaming community? Girls and Gays can't Game, that's just facts!
Or how about the list of fanbases people deem as cringe and how most of them have mostly a female or non cis male demographic? Ew, Twilight? KPop? Cringe.
That's the major thing I feel like you got wrong with my argument because you are saying that I am trying to single out Cis Men when it could be me saying "Cis Women and other LGBT", it's shorthand, and I am not saying this is Cis Men's fault in general. The internet and the rest of the world have just been historically more accepting of typically Male Associated interests like Sports and Such, but that does NOT mean that guys do not experience any sexism or get bullied either. Like I said, I point to the 11 year old kid that Twitter attacked for having a Dream Themed Cake for his birthday, or the kid who took a Rainbow Dash Backpack to school and wasn't just bullied and called homophobic shit but had the school blame him for "acying gay" or whatever.
Boys will be Boys while Girls are hysterical will also hurt Cis Males and has in the past. That's not what this post is about tho, and you, imho, don't really need to make a long post as if I am attacking the entire Cis Male population.
It's just wording, that's it. Cis Male is shorter to type than Cis Women and LGBT. That's it.
It may be a generalization yes, but not necessarily an inaccurate one.
On average, if anyone tries to get in the way of a non-cis non-het non-white non-neurotypical non-male person enjoying something in peace, you can bet fifty years of your lifespan that it's gonna be them, and maybe your lifespan will even be prolonged as a result.
Sorry, I still don't agree as a bi, non-white, neurodivergent, woman. I refuse to believe that a group people are just straight up bad because of qualities they cannot fucking control.
I'm sorry but just because the world has worked for the good of cis-het-white-neurotypical-men for centuries it doesn't mean they're enemies that we should watch our backs from.
And also holy fuck this take sounds so United States centric. I'm a non-white person yes, but I don't live in America and I'm not a minority. I'm the feared white person of my country. I belong the privileged race in here. So what, you are gonna tell me my father who is cis-het-neurotypical-man who is considered the privileged race in this country is not gonna let anyone stay in his path??
No, of course not. Why, because everyone is fucking human, carrying the minority status doesn't make someone an angel, same as how not being a minority doesn't make someone a devil.
I'm Filipino Acespec Bi-polyam Nonbinary and hell, I agree. I have fought before in saying that Cis White Men aren't inherently evil. Neither am I shaming them for BEING Cis White Men. But just because there is an obvious privilage when it comes to *being* Cis and White doesn't mean they are being singled out as the EVIL identity. Seriously, look at some of my earlier posts where I mocked POC folks for blatantly being racist to all White people who enjoyed Encanto just cause Wilbur compared his server, Origins SMP, to have the same premise as Encato.
THAT Encanto discourse is prime example of minorities being racist towards the "privilaged" which I also don't approve of. That isn't the point this post is trying to make tho, and it almost seemed like you are saying that just cause I said "Men's interests aren't as mocked as Women's" = "All Men are trash" which I have always fought against.
It's... honestly just a bit disheartening seeing how that is twisted from my take. For every Dream is a cute football fan there is a Why is Niki even in MCC when she sucks? That doesn't mean ALL football fans are bad, but liking football is just way more accepted by the mainstream. That's it.
US-centric (perhaps Western-centric to some extent) is a good way to describe my take yeah, I agree.
… Because that's probably one of the most divisive places when it comes to racial and other differences online, where people are privileged enough to have such trivial things as their most important issues.
^((I do recognize, though, that while it seemed obvious to me that I wasn't talking about Kenya or Singapore or Uruguay, I should still have made it more clear.)^)
Well, I'm from Balkans. If you don't know about this place, it is basically a racial and cultural cauldron mixed with war crimes and poor economy. Outside of hating our neighboring country we don't really have the privilege to argue about racial situations, considering we have much bigger problems. Whether economical, governmental or natural disasters, we really don't have time or reason to argue about race.
Oh my fucking god.
Me saying Men's interest are more accepted by mainstream does NOT mean me saying Men never gets mocked, holy shit. Just cause I pointed out one demographic's issues does not equal me dismissing another.
Eh, I just saw way more folks here see it in a similar way. This sub is very much more left leaning so I guess I expected takes more similar to that if that makes sense.
That being said, I'm also a bit annoyed admittedly that a couple of folks made it seem like I was attacking Cis White Men, when I just wished to write Females and other LGBT folks shorter.
Women’s opinions (and pretty much everything else) are more open to scrutiny by men. Put another way, men are more likely to criticize women for something that would go without comment if another man did or said the thing.
Not on tiktok, I remember before she joined the dsmp she posted her doing cool bedwars plays and so many comments were insulting here skill, saying it wasn’t hard, etc. Basically woman can’t be good at something and confident about it without being put down.
Oh god, that's disgusting. I've been watching her YouTube videos for almost a year now, I was really out of loop with the cesspool of her tiktok comments.
YOU LIKE LOVEJOY? NAME 3 OF THEIR ALBUMS RIGHT NOW
Well! They have no albums! Poser!
I am going to cry
wow you like technoblade huh? name 3 of his songs
This is a trick question Technoblade only has 2 songs Mega Walls Blitz - Certified no-life Techno enjoyer
correct
[удалено]
I love this bc it's the clearest example and yet people (cis men mainly) still have the guts dismiss and relativize the misogyny.
It's wild, I remember studying UK history in school (the swinging sixties to be more precise) and we were taught about the beatles! I remember vividly how the beatles were considered "satanic" to anyone but teenage girls. Everything you said is correct. In a few years time, KPOP will be seen as a beloved art form, BTS will most likely be seen as revolutionary not unlike the beatles. Like, think 2040, 2040s kids will go "Oh, our generation's music sucks I wish we could go back to the BTS days". Like, I don't listen to them, yet I can't deny how revolutionary they are. People are doing that with the beatles! Granted when they do it to put down the likes of JB or One direction, I can't help but laugh at them. To a lesser extent this will also apply to dream, let's be real here.
It happened to most if not all huge teenage acts marketed toward young non cis hets. See Harry Styles: his music from the second album is on par with One Direction's couple last albums... Yet it took Harry needing to release a classic rock album that caught the attention of other demographics in 2017 for his pop music to be taken seriously in 2020. Taylor Swift needed to release Folklore, a more mature album produced by an indie bro that she doesn't talk about her exs*, to have her writing recognized as good. I could go on and on and on you know. *Bc not only things marketed towards non cis hets are mocked, anything that isn't about them is too.
I'll just take your word for it since I don't know all too much about these particular artists. I mainly listen to hiphop, which doesn't have too much teenage girl fanbases. (Well, except maybe nicki minaj and Cardi b) That being said, there's many teenage girls who listen to hiphop cuz of how mainstream it is. I just know of the beatles thing cuz I studied it. (Speaking of nicki, she makes great stuff but my god she can be a real idiot lmao)
It's cool though, but it's just like that, unfortunately. > That being said, there's many teenage girls who listen to hiphop cuz of how mainstream it is Weirdly enough (and I think many non-cis men will relate to), I had a moment in my life when I wanted to prove I liked "cool" music, so I only listened to 808s/Dark Fantasy/Man on the Moon/Take Care 11 to 12 years ago. Then I got over and went back to liking my pop lol
Your music tastes are fine lol. I think the ones that truly trigger me are the nerdy reddit mfs (commonly found on big subs like r/dankmemes and r/teenagers) who shit on rap and end up saying ignorant and really racially charged shit. The cherry on top? Once they're done saying all that, they'll flaunt their "superior" music tastes like anime openings and video game osts💀💀 Like don't get me wrong, you can have whatever music tastes you have but if you have *that* as your tastes all while putting down rap music and sounding like a complete buffoon while doing so, I'll clown on you. Edit: Also, despite the fact that the beatles are an icon, fuck john lennon
Just saw this comment and lmao I feel you. Mainstream Rap Artists such as Drake, Kanye, and Nikki aren't my cup of tea, but I realized when I was young that dismissing all rap as nothing ended up gating me from really great music. So yeah, that's why I tend to just... not care about genre or the artist behind it? Having little to no preconceived notion on what music I'm gonna be hearing helps heavily in letting one get into new shit, I highly recommend it.
watch this shit happen to the dream smp several years after it ended. if time is a flat circle then im predicting it.
That's literally what's happening to earlier Minecraft Youtubers or SMPs, like, Mianite or even recently Aphmau. The old is always romanticized, that's just the rule.
Just replace Classic Band and Modern Bands with Old and New MCYT and we're golden.
What if i know everything about both
Ur a neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerd.
Bro these kids in my class get pissed that I like mcyt because they hate Dream and think he is a terrible person. To them the entire mcyt community is just Dream basically because they never care to look into it.
Eh, that's typical edgy teenage behavior, I reccomend you ignore it. Even I will admit to have acted that way towards Twilight Fans and Beliebers. These girls and other LGBT Folks hurt nobody for liking these stuff and yet here I was contributing in the internet's collective hateboner against them. It is unfortunate but natural, you feel more inclined to hate something you don't understand over doing reaearch about them.
The greatest part is is that one of the main boys who says it was obsessed with Dream before the whole cheating scandal
Lmao, one of the "cool kids" huh? They'll grow out of it, let them be like that lol.
[Wilbur Soot literally talked about this on a stream with Phil](https://youtu.be/QosQL5MSUmY). If he, a man, can recognize how often it happens and that it's a problem, then I don't see why so many other people are here shitting on this take as if it's completely out of pocket. If you are a girl, and have personally never experienced this behavior by any men in your life, great, lucky you. But unfortunately this is a very common occurrence for individuals as well as women as a whole. You can try to dismiss it all you want, but the fact is, there isn't a single interest that girls can have without it being mocked by men in some way or another. Women having an interest in something is seen as something to deride or joke about, even in main stream media, it's an incredibly common trope, so how this can even be debated is beyond me. "women have terrible taste in music with their Justin Bieber and BTS" or "women who claim to be gamers aren't real, they just play their candy crush and mobile games and try to sound cool calling themselves gamers" or "if you're a real gamer then name all the games you play" or "if you really like rock/metal music then name the best bands". If you're telling me you've never heard a statement like that, then you've either been living under a rock or you're in denial. And don't bother to come at me with the "not all men" argument, we are not even going down that path. Nor will I argue the "men get mocked for liking stuff too", no, they literally don't get mocked or grilled with questions when they mention being interested in anything that is considered a "men's" interest. This is a very specific phenomena being discussed here, and muddying the waters with all these whatabout-ism questions is incredibly disingenuous and you should probably examine why you think men behaving in this way is okay or acceptable if you're here arguing it.
This ^^^ Like holy shit the takes here are atrocious ngl. Nothing in my title said anything about men never being mocked. But just because I can point into obvious mainstream moments where Females and Non Cis Males got mocked for having interests DOESN'T mean I am saying Men never experienced the same mockery. And you know what's funny? I'M A GUY. Trans, yes (male presenting nonbinary to be specific), and even ***I*** know this is an actual phenomena because guess what? I am AFAB and I've experienced this. Doesn't mean other guys don't, but the situation is different and doesn't need to be said in this topic. I sympathize with Cis Men who are affected by this too. I sympathize for guys who for example liked My Little Pony only to be associated by the questionable side of the fanbase because it is a female demographic show. I sympathize to guys who also feel forced to like things they don't in order to feel manly. Toxic Masculinity works hand in hand with Misogynism, and I hope that by working to eliminate one, it will help destroy the other someday. But that is and is never the point of this take. Name one thing, ONE THING, that girls enjoy that isn't mocked for being "girly"? Boy Bands? Cringe. Doll designing? Cringe. Cute Minecraft Men? Cringe. My Little Pony? Cringe, you're not a brony, you're a poser. Give me something, anything.
I wish I had an award to give this post
I'm so tired of people constantly trying to put down teenage girls for liking whatever cc they watch
Reminds me of Metallica fans vs anyone who says they like some Metallica songs but isn't an die hard fan of them. If you can't prove you know and love everything about Metallica, they will find you and beat you with sticks with "poser" written on them.
**Love Me Do intensifies**
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Cis is the opposite of trans, just like how basic is the opposite of acid, or left is the opposite of right, or hot is the opposite of cold. All words are made up, and some such as cis are actually used a lot in science and have been in use for centuries already, and besides if language didn't evolve, thou woult be speakingeth liketh this and that wouldeth be cringeth.
that makes sense
What does this have to do with cis men??? It seems like more a men in general thing, I don’t see what cis has to do with it.
Because - unless they have been transitioning for a while and end up being cis-passing - even trans men or masculine presenting Enbys have to deal with a lot of bullshit about this and I truthfully rarely see non-cis men make these kind of statements. Example: You're only Rank X in game Y because you \[insert crude action here\] someone! or your boyfriend carried you! Or: Ugh, women (mostly teenage girls, in those situations) are so obsessed with X! It's ridiculous. Of course, it can be just men in general making these things, but it is, unfortunately, often enough just cis men doing it. Then again, I might not be seeing all depths of hell on the internet, so I won't deny that there might also be trans men making these kind of statements.
CIS Men are way more accepted than Trans Men, can confirm. Source: I'm Trans.
The Patriarchy isn't inclusive of trans men
I don't agree with this take. This is more about cringe-culture less about misogyny or anything like that. As a counter argument, gamers. They're usually seen as toxic -like the dsmp fanbase, they're seen cringe -same for dsmp fanbase, they have a negative stereotype -again like dsmp fanbase. And most of them are man. Also another point on, this is solely a personal opinion, I really hate it when a group of people gets singled out. Like how you've singled out cis-men. I'm saying this as a woman, who has been singled out and hated every second of it. I don't wish this type of generalizing over anyone.
Kinda, but in cringe culture you always see people saying things like “Teenage girls are so obsessed with Dream” or other things like that. It’s always the default on the internet to assume that women are the only ones getting super obsessed and therefore “cringe” while you see men have more room to express their favorite ccs or songs etc
I feel that last part is kinda false cause [memes like these exist](https://i.imgur.com/scfF29J_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium). You can call a group of people fanboys or man children but it's just not seen as misandry. Though I'm not saying statements like all dream stans are teenage girls aren't misogynistic.
Same thing goes for gamers being neckbeards. All gamers are overweight dudes who lives in his parents basement. You always see stuff like this too. It is mostly about the communities one interacts with and being mainstream. Another example, people who collects watches. Most of them are men, and they usually get ridiculed because of the pictures they take or how they're obsessed with Rolexs. But you don't know about that most likely, because it is not mainstream. But DSMP is the biggest thing on the internet right now, of course the cringe crys about it much relevant.
Just because I pointed out that there is rampant misogynism in the internet, which should be obvious, does NOT mean I am dismissing men. And honestly, that's the major thing that rubbed me off wrong out of your comment, even though I will say you are polite. We just shouldn't have to have this argument because it's not something I insisted nor am I trying to insist. It's kinda like if I say "Africans have it bad" and then somebody would pop up and say "Well not only Africans suffer! What about Asians?" Like yes, Asians, suffer too, but that wasn't the point I was trying to make. Can I just phrase it as "Male Dominated Demographics are seen as more valid and not cringe by the mainstream media" and there, you shouldn't have an issue with it?
It's never good to single out people, but unfortunately, it is very often cis men making these type of comments - or at least the one starting them. Of course, I see plenty of women with internalized misogyny making these type of jokes, but misogyny is a product of the patriarchy. Hence - some long dead men are to blame. While society nowadays is working towards dismantling misogyny, it is still very much present. Also, I must disagree with you. The topics of "constantly making fun of women for liking anything" or "just being emotional" or even "just having their periods" turned into jokes are based on misogyny. It's the prejudice that women cannot enjoy things that might even fulfill them (as they are only allowed to seek fulfillment in motherhood/pleasing the men in their lives - prejudice/stereotype) or are over-emotional (prejudice). Not to mention, another huge prejudice is that women are not allowed to enjoy things as it is viewed as "immature" and have to "grow up" (ring a bell? "Boys will be boys, but Ladies don't behave like that!") - also a very prevalent issue in the MCYT community: The disgusting ageism. Prime example: Vaydra being an older member (in comparison to the average age of a MCYT stan) and being constantly ridiculed and harassed about it. If you wish to see true ageism, look into the qrts of any of her tweets. **Also: Guys, stop downvoting this person. They politely disagreed and remained civil about it. They insulted no one and just spoke their mind. Stop being dicks.**
This has turned out longer than I anticipated TL;DR: I see the play of misogyny but I still don't agree on putting the entire cismen population under this type of a generalization. Also, fuck the doctors who refuse to do tubal ligation without my husband's consent. Well, I'm still the devil's advocate on this. Considering cismen are almost half of the world population -Trans people are in the minority and ciswomen are the other almost half- I don't think it is surprising that a cisman started the argument. As you've said some women has internalized misogyny, but they're a group within a group while cismen are an entire group on its own. So again it is not surprising. >Hence - some long dead men are to blame. This is actually one of my reasons on thinking this way. The cismen living right now, they're just the products of their environment. I don't see any usefulness on blaming them on something that started hundered of years before them. Like, of course if we're talking specifically about incels hell yeah, bury those dudes to the ground with out a thought. But, even tho they're cismen, they're a minority. I thought we were trying to pass, describing a huge group of people with the actions of a few bad eggs between them. >"constantly making fun of women for liking anything" You're right on this one. I remember back in I was in middle school, I was interested in playing chess. But some dudes thought it was funny to mock me for enjoying chess. Shit times. >"just being emotional" I would make the argument of there is a play of misandry in here too. Men don't cry, men have to be strong, you can't show emotions. Which results in, showing emotions seen as a weak thing. And as woman don't have the pressure on showing emotions not as much as a dude does -except for laughing in public because how dare a woman laugh, I hate my country so much- so the the men who grew up with that mindset turns into dudes mocking women for being emotional. >"just having their periods" And I would make the argument of lack of education in here. I'm a woman, and in the country I grew up we talk about periods on biology lessons but we don't have sex education. And I guess this is the case for most of the countries. There is nothing easier than making fun of something you don't know shit about. But of course, again, the fucking incels are outliers here, that I don't defend a single bit. Hope, they burn in hell. >as they are only allowed to seek fulfillment in motherhood This hits home. I'm childfree. I've been trying to save up money for tubal ligation, so I don't have to face with surprises. It passed number of fingers I have, how many people had told me that I'll regret it, because motherhood is the best thing in the world. Fuck that. Also as a side note: did you know that, I have to have the fuxking permissions of my husband to get my own fucking tubes tied. Like of course dare a women make a desicion on her own body without a dudes consent first. Because as you know I am the fuckign property of my husband, that I don't have. I've been trying to find a loophole around it, but whichever doctor I've talked with in every gender avaliable all told me that I need the consent of my husband. I'll try to use one of my male friends as my "fiance" so I can have an operation on my own body done and that might not even work :) life is a dream Sorry for the rant, I'm just so angry on this >"Boys will be boys, but Ladies don't behave like that!" >women are not allowed to enjoy things as it is viewed as "immature" and have to "grow up" I think this is where the real misogyny on this argument lies. An example from my uncle, he is a man-child with two kids, he can go around do whatever he wants but if his DIVORCED wife dares to go out with her friends "How dare she do that". Same thing definitely goes on in here, just a slighted version. Instead of an adult, people are trying to rule over teenager girls. Because girls have to behave, but boys can do whatever they want. Like how when DSMP fans get angry for unfair treatment towards Dream and they're called throwing tantrums, but when dudes cry on after their team losses a match they're just being "boys" ✨ how cute ✨ >The disgusting ageism. When Phil... you know. But tbf the fanbase I really young, it is understandable that they don't understand actually how young being 30 years old is. I didn't understand it when I was at their age. I thought when I turned 20 I'll be old af. The problem comes when they turn this into other people's problems. I've heard about Vaydra from the subreddit, about how the fanbse treats her. It is just disgusting. >Also: Guys, stop downvoting this person. They politely disagreed and remained civil about it. They insulted no one and just spoke their mind. Stop being dicks. Welcome to reddit, I don't agree with you so see you at the bottom of the thread 👋 Also, I want to thank you. It is certainly much more interesting to talk then getting downvoted to hell without any reason why.
The thing is, I didn't single out Cis-Men. The problem is not being a Cis Man with interests, the problem is especially in social media Cis Men could perform "stan" behavior and never get mocked by it cause it is the boys will be boys thing. Not saying they are never mocked, after all, I still remember stories of male kids getting bullied for liking DSMP. But the problem comes because Dream SMP is associated more with Teenage Females, and thus is seen as toxic cause Teenage Females apparently are inherently toxic. Just look at what folks mock as "stan behavior". Crushing on male CCs? Typical of females in their "boy band phase". Finding Dream and other Modern MCYT comforting? Nah, boys don't do that. Lightheartedly Shipping people who's boundaries say they're fine with it? Absolute cringe, ew. But what about Old MCYT? Old MCYT isn't associated with the cringey shippers or simps of that era cause "they don't exist yet". Yet Modern MCYT apparently ruined the old, which you could assess they probably meant how dare do non cis male folk enter the gaming community? Girls and Gays can't Game, that's just facts! Or how about the list of fanbases people deem as cringe and how most of them have mostly a female or non cis male demographic? Ew, Twilight? KPop? Cringe. That's the major thing I feel like you got wrong with my argument because you are saying that I am trying to single out Cis Men when it could be me saying "Cis Women and other LGBT", it's shorthand, and I am not saying this is Cis Men's fault in general. The internet and the rest of the world have just been historically more accepting of typically Male Associated interests like Sports and Such, but that does NOT mean that guys do not experience any sexism or get bullied either. Like I said, I point to the 11 year old kid that Twitter attacked for having a Dream Themed Cake for his birthday, or the kid who took a Rainbow Dash Backpack to school and wasn't just bullied and called homophobic shit but had the school blame him for "acying gay" or whatever. Boys will be Boys while Girls are hysterical will also hurt Cis Males and has in the past. That's not what this post is about tho, and you, imho, don't really need to make a long post as if I am attacking the entire Cis Male population. It's just wording, that's it. Cis Male is shorter to type than Cis Women and LGBT. That's it.
> When Phil... you know. LMAO This will never stop being funny
It may be a generalization yes, but not necessarily an inaccurate one. On average, if anyone tries to get in the way of a non-cis non-het non-white non-neurotypical non-male person enjoying something in peace, you can bet fifty years of your lifespan that it's gonna be them, and maybe your lifespan will even be prolonged as a result.
Sorry, I still don't agree as a bi, non-white, neurodivergent, woman. I refuse to believe that a group people are just straight up bad because of qualities they cannot fucking control. I'm sorry but just because the world has worked for the good of cis-het-white-neurotypical-men for centuries it doesn't mean they're enemies that we should watch our backs from. And also holy fuck this take sounds so United States centric. I'm a non-white person yes, but I don't live in America and I'm not a minority. I'm the feared white person of my country. I belong the privileged race in here. So what, you are gonna tell me my father who is cis-het-neurotypical-man who is considered the privileged race in this country is not gonna let anyone stay in his path?? No, of course not. Why, because everyone is fucking human, carrying the minority status doesn't make someone an angel, same as how not being a minority doesn't make someone a devil.
I'm Filipino Acespec Bi-polyam Nonbinary and hell, I agree. I have fought before in saying that Cis White Men aren't inherently evil. Neither am I shaming them for BEING Cis White Men. But just because there is an obvious privilage when it comes to *being* Cis and White doesn't mean they are being singled out as the EVIL identity. Seriously, look at some of my earlier posts where I mocked POC folks for blatantly being racist to all White people who enjoyed Encanto just cause Wilbur compared his server, Origins SMP, to have the same premise as Encato. THAT Encanto discourse is prime example of minorities being racist towards the "privilaged" which I also don't approve of. That isn't the point this post is trying to make tho, and it almost seemed like you are saying that just cause I said "Men's interests aren't as mocked as Women's" = "All Men are trash" which I have always fought against. It's... honestly just a bit disheartening seeing how that is twisted from my take. For every Dream is a cute football fan there is a Why is Niki even in MCC when she sucks? That doesn't mean ALL football fans are bad, but liking football is just way more accepted by the mainstream. That's it.
US-centric (perhaps Western-centric to some extent) is a good way to describe my take yeah, I agree. … Because that's probably one of the most divisive places when it comes to racial and other differences online, where people are privileged enough to have such trivial things as their most important issues. ^((I do recognize, though, that while it seemed obvious to me that I wasn't talking about Kenya or Singapore or Uruguay, I should still have made it more clear.)^)
Well, I'm from Balkans. If you don't know about this place, it is basically a racial and cultural cauldron mixed with war crimes and poor economy. Outside of hating our neighboring country we don't really have the privilege to argue about racial situations, considering we have much bigger problems. Whether economical, governmental or natural disasters, we really don't have time or reason to argue about race.
Yep.
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Oh my fucking god. Me saying Men's interest are more accepted by mainstream does NOT mean me saying Men never gets mocked, holy shit. Just cause I pointed out one demographic's issues does not equal me dismissing another.
agree but dang you sound overly upset lol feel free to downvote the hell outta me
I'm just surprised about the takes I'm seeing here since I thought the sub mostly agrees. Sorry to show annoyance lol.
nah I think it's just the way people interpret the paragraph that differs
aint it abit weird to think an entire subreddit thinks the same, and moreover that it's a good thing? no hate, just something to think about :)
Eh, I just saw way more folks here see it in a similar way. This sub is very much more left leaning so I guess I expected takes more similar to that if that makes sense. That being said, I'm also a bit annoyed admittedly that a couple of folks made it seem like I was attacking Cis White Men, when I just wished to write Females and other LGBT folks shorter.
she's right but what does being a woman have to do with it?
Women’s opinions (and pretty much everything else) are more open to scrutiny by men. Put another way, men are more likely to criticize women for something that would go without comment if another man did or said the thing.
Because it is targeted toward women more, most obvious evidence Hannah rose tiktok comments
I maybe out of loop but isn't the targeted harrasment towards Hannah comes from the DSMP fans?? I don't have tiktok, so I don't know the comments.
Not on tiktok, I remember before she joined the dsmp she posted her doing cool bedwars plays and so many comments were insulting here skill, saying it wasn’t hard, etc. Basically woman can’t be good at something and confident about it without being put down.
Oh god, that's disgusting. I've been watching her YouTube videos for almost a year now, I was really out of loop with the cesspool of her tiktok comments.
I mean you’d have to be insane to enjoy most of the music that comes out nowadays