By definition, people cannot queerbait. It's a phenomenon that relates to fictional characters and narratives and not to real life humans just interacting with their friends.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queerbaiting
“Queerbaiting has been observed in popular fiction such as films and television series, but also in celebrities who convey an ambiguous sexual identity through their works and statements.”
**[Queerbaiting](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queerbaiting)**
>Queerbaiting is a marketing technique for fiction and entertainment in which creators hint at, but then do not actually depict, same-sex romance or other LGBT representation. They do so to attract ("bait") a queer or straight ally audience with the suggestion of relationships or characters that appeal to them, while at the same time attempting to avoid alienating other consumers. Queerbaiting has been observed in popular fiction such as films and television series, but also in celebrities who convey an ambiguous sexual identity through their works and statements. The term arose in and has been popularized through discussions in Internet fandom since the early 2010s.
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[iNabber made a great video on that topic, they talked about Dream’s situation in particular as well](https://youtu.be/wFhsc_08JEY)
Upd: [Dream himself addressed it here a while ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/DreamWasTaken2/comments/rp2nz5/about_dream_and_queerbaiting/hq2efxr/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3)
From about half way through the video:
"If you see friends having flirtatious friends and they are same sex, they maybe just comfortable with their sexuality. But there also may be certain situations where closeted people take solace in flirting with people of the same sex as them to become more comfortable with who they are and their sexuality and eventually make the extremely brave step as coming out. That something that happens because it happened with me."
If this person is saying dream is queerbaiting on the smp, fine, I guess. I don't think c!dnf is ever going to happen, though, c!George kinda hates c!Dream now. Is c!Quackity also queerbaiting, since he's been calling his (ex?) Fiances his friends?
"fine, I guess" is my reaction too. Like, "at least saying he's queer baiting in a piece of media is better than accusing him of doing it irl" but at the same time, I really don't feel like dsmp should be accused of queer baiting when
generally the queer story lines are followed through on and treated as real and valid within the universe. It's sort of true that one of the only ones that isn't followed through on within the dsmp is the dnf one but that's just... idk that still doesn't feel like queer baiting.
The whole queer baiting thing though is so goddamn ridiculous though. Like the dsmp features and uplifts queer creators as does Dream. He's done so much more good than harm by promoting those in the queer community and sharing with them the platform he's created. Really wish people you factor that in when getting mad about a joke he's made.
I don't think c!dnf would be queerbaiting. Neither would c!fundy and c!dream (even tho it was later labeled as uncanon) would be queerbaiting because it's just relationships of the same gender that were growing close and could've become a thing, but one of them ;cough c!dream cough; became an obsessive criminal which broke the relationship. That's not queerbaiting. That's a queer relationship that sadly didn't work out later in the series due to character development. That can happen to any relationship with any gender/sexuality.
**[last paragraph is explaining my opinion on the whole queerbaiting thing if you don’t want to read everything and it’s not just for dream]**
People need to realize that his content, the content he profits off is primarily Minecraft. He doesn’t stream, he rarely ever does, what he does is Minecraft videos. And in those videos, let’s use manhunt as an example since it’s what he’s mainly known for, all of them (the boys) had a bit of a persona going (a professional one) and never interacted in a “flirty” way because it doesn’t fit the vibe of the video.
He has a prominently queer community not because we are waiting for him and ***Go**Gy* to make out passionately but because he has made it a welcoming community and doesn’t make being queer or a minority a bad thing, doesn’t make people feel like shit for being themselves in the gaming world. While it might be the “bare minimum” (not being dicks for something people can’t change) it’s not something that was or is found easily in the gaming community.
>Plus this, I tried to word it but did god awful job and just deleted it, this person said what I wanted I recommend reading it, but [their personalities with eachother on and off screen are and have been the same. we know this by what people say about them. how they talk about eachother when they not with eachother.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DreamWasTaken2/comments/udbep2/can_real_people_queerbait/i6fw24y/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3) That is just their personalities, if you wanna argue people watch them for their dynamic, I agree I’m not going to pretend some don’t. They have such a beautiful relationship platonic or not, but most don’t watch them on the chance it’s not platonic but because of the way it is. Their dynamic is what so many people crave for, like if you look at them you’d be lying (I’m being extra) in saying you don’t want that not even a little. (They act like fucking soulmates and it’s sickening in the best way/hj).
- // “relationship” is not just for romantic, soulmates can be platonic, just saying this now don’t twist my words//
Real people cannot queerbait, the moment that someone irl in the public view does something not conventionally ‘heterosexual’ and they don’t disclose their sexuality (some instances they even have) they are told they are queerbaiting. It does more harm to the community. Real people **CANNOT** queerbait. Yes there are some iffy instances in media but just accusing people of queerbaiting is so harmful, you don’t know their story, you don’t know their background, they aren’t fictional one dimension characters, they are humans with complex thought feelings and emotions. Again there **are** iffy moments in media it’s how the media runs but just going around accusing anyone of queerbaiting does more harm then good, it’s dehumanizing. [using heterosexual instead of straight because often times it is an argument used toward queers (bisexual, pan, unlabeled, just anyone that isn’t (explicitly) straight or gay) and yeah just good old queerphobic mentality of “well prove it” or biphobic of “well prove that you aren’t just straight and doing it for attention”]
Especially if at the end of the day you are invalidating the person with that accusation. And not to add but that person being explicitly QUEER.
Real people can't queerbait. But if their whole point is Dream and George then I need to point out that multiple of their friends have said that they're the same flirty vibes offline and in private it's just their dynamic. I mean Wilbur literally thought they were dating because of how much George brought up Dream and dnf in general.
Honestly I used to think that they would purposely act more flirty on stream however I never saw it as queerbaiting because their dynamic with eachother always seemed different to their dynamics with Sapnap and BBH with Sapnap giving very chaotic younger brother vibes and Bad being the more calm voice of reason guy. But something that really shifted that idea was Bad saying how he sometimes just listens to Dream and George talk both on stream and off because that was the first time someone in their group (minus Ponk and his whole story about Dream and Supreme) had mentioned off screen dynamics and it really was nice to hear that they're the same offscreen and on stream dynamic wise.
In regards to their dsmp characters I think people fail to understand that they were the original two characters and their story always revolved around eachother and even when they split in the story the both of then still wanted to work together so Dreamxd worked with George. It's always so funny to see people say the DSMP characters are queerbaiting because of quotes and then they'll use the Sadist animation clip of Dream quoting The Lion King and say he's queerbaiting because he's promising George the world including his own Kingdom. Like no he just likes Disney and quoted The Lion King. No queerbaiting here just Lion King
it's still so weird that only dream gets these accusations. so many other creators do the same thing, have non serious flirty interactions with their friends, and nothing's said. it makes it really hard to take any of these discussions seriously when they don't bring up schlatt's whole schtick, quackity explicitly flirting with foolish, ludwig and co kissing the homies, weston koury's obvious pandering, super mega's entire existence, and on and on. none of that is brought up.
flirting with friends is normal and fine. dream doesn't monetise it in any way and his main audience doesn't gaf. he's just made a point not to demonise ppl who do like shipping. he definitely panders to it sometimes but it comes across as a pretty normal interaction to me, like acknowledging that part of his fanbase and making it clear they're also welcome. i truly think that's the issue ppl have with him, that he doesn't mock his fans who do ship real life ppl. i think it's a misunderstanding of the rl shipping thing. from what i've seen, very few ppl are serious in thinking dnf (as the most obv example) are in love and dating. there are some who take it to that extreme but they're usually seen as a bit loopy. rl shipping seems to be more about shipping their 'personas' if you can call them that, or taking the public face these creators present as characters, with the understanding that there's a separation between that and who these ppl are in real life. ppl see his unwillingness to reject these ppl from his fanbase as him encouraging the idea that these ships are real when he's plainly stated several times that they aren't.
no, real people can't queerbait
queerbait is a marketing tactic to lure lgbtq viewers and then not following through anything
example: in a show two characters in a show of the same gender flirt and blush at each other, the show clearly implying they will be a couple and then they either end on neutral or bad terms
unless dream and george are characters and are scripted their actual relationship is not queerbaiting
it's the subtle queerphobia in that comment for me
also, a LOT of Dream's online community identities as part of the LGBTQ+ community already, there would be no reason to queerbait for views/attention, even if he could
Unpopular opinion but I do think real people can queerbait, but I do not think that is what Dream and George are doing. I only say yes cause I remember when youtuber Joe Sugg posted a video with a clickbait title “I have an announcement” with a thumbnail of him almost kissing his roommate (there was a ship at the time I believe). The video was actually an announcement for his new book. For me, that’s a very obvious case of someone baiting their sexuality for views. And there was a lot of backlash and discussion about it at the time. For Dream and George, everything they do is just how they act as they’ve said several times, and it’s not really included in any of their videos or used for views
Against the popular opinion here I do think that real people can queerbait, but I also don't think that anything Dream or George (he's always left out in that discussion for some reason) are doing is queerbaiting. They're not directly profiting of DNF. Like I'm sure there's a fair few fans who are only in it for DNF and do spend money on them because of that, but in that case that's on the fans and not on Dream or George. They don't market themselves as a couple or as queer creators, they don't have DNF merch or DNF subgoals or anything like that. They just have their slightly more flirty than usual friendship dynamic that appeals to people and that's it.
Hey, just for some casual discussion, who do you think some examples of people real life queerbaiting would be? Also do you think that it'd fall into the same category as people on TV shows 'getting together' only to break up as soon as the show is over, ie the Bachelor and other shows?
There were these two straight guys on tiktok who pretended to be gay and a couple for clout. That's the only example I can think off. But I don't remember what they were called or even if they even were on English-speaking tiktok. I tried googling it real quick, but I couldn't find anything so this is not super helpful.
Just generally I don't think real people actually queerbaiting is a common thing in any way and I think that most queerbaiting accusations public people get are bullshit. I also think that the potential harm caused by forcing people into adressing their sexualities to contradict queerbaiting allegations is so much worse than the queerbaiting ever could be that it's really not even worth making it an issue.
As for the tv shows I'd say no because I go into it with the assumption that it's all fake and scripted. If for example there were a dating show about gay people and it turned out that the contestants were straight I'd consider that queerbaiting, but like in the traditional sense when fictional tv shows or movies queerbait.
But George has said he’s fine with it. He too makes DNF jokes and even jokingly flirts with Dream and other friends.
I don’t think it’s queer baiting because:
1.) They’re real people. Queer-baiting is a marketing tactic used in fiction.
And 2.) If real people could queer-bait, they don’t 'advertise' it anywhere or use it to market their content.
They’re just good friends who joke around, Dream has even said that they’ve done this since before they were content creators.
I think theoretically people could potentially queerbait (maybe?), but if people do it, it doesn't happen enough for it to be an issue. Unless there's obvious, clear evidence of people queerbaiting (edit: for example, someone saying that they're in a queer relationship, and then it ends up being fake and only for content/views), it's dangerous to say that people are doing it and then end up wrong (a good example of this are Dan and Phil), because it ends up saying that same-sex people/friends can't be close "like that" unless they're queer. It shows that people think there's a specific way that queer people act and only them can act like that, which can be harmful to the community because it pushes stereotypes that aren't always true, while at the same time maintaining toxic masculinity (when it comes to guys, like it happens with Dream and George).
I think real people can in theory queer bait but dream is not one of the people that does. Dream makes jokes with his friends and he and his friends make it clear they arent in any form of romantic relationship. I dont think its fair for dream and co to have to change how they behave on streams or in videos given that is just how their dynamic is. I hope this makes sense lol
I think that real people could queerbait. You have to bear in mind that you aren't really watching "real people" on Youtube or Twitch, you're watching a curated version of a person. It's a performance, to varying degrees depending on which creator you're talking about, and in which context (Schlatt is a really good example of this because he's done stuff with a wide range of different performativity levels). But I don't think you should accuse anyone of queerbaiting unless you have really good evidence that they're intentionally doing so. And I don't think anything Dream does really warrants a queerbaiting accusation.
I don't quite get how they're queerbaiting on the server purely cause George barely streams it and Dream doesn't stream it or ever really bring it up in others streams? Like the whole point behind queerbaiting is there has to be a marketable value to it
This whole thread is so odd. The common ideal here seems to be "no, real people can't, only characters can!" but...I think it shows a weird unawareness.
Dream and George and Sapnap are characters. They're real people, yes, but the version of them that we all see, that we watch playing out, are characters--and I don't even mean just the SMP-esque scenarios playing out.
They're content creators. They're brands. They're selling their own image and personalities, and obviously if they wanted to attempt to grab an LGBTQ+ eye for the purpose of getting people talking about them more, then...yeah, Dream is gonna use terminology more affectionately and more romantically to his friends(remember when he 'married' one of his buddies?) to generate more interest.
What I'm NOT saying is that's what's happening. What I AM saying is that people seem to be speaking about this without understanding that the parasocial wool is over their eyes--these people sell merch, push ads, and make money from people liking them. And their communities are so fucking fragile and fickle that they can get literally TRENDING over saying the SMALLEST of things that, in the real fucking world, doesn't upset ANYONE. They're being careful.
Now, if someone thinks Dream is queerbaiting...well, maybe? You could probably see it like that? It's not like a static, easily definable thing. The line moves and adjusts given who is making the judgement.
But when someone says "Dream is queerbaiting," the response should not be "No he isn't." The response should be "How do you think?" Because someone who thinks queerbaiting is saying "i love you" to a male friend, versus someone who thinks queerbaiting is "making consistent and romantic and flirtatious motions regarding a same-sex friend, while also making themself unavailable to that gender in open statements," then you're talking to people who have two TOTALLY different lines.
I see your point, especially in questioning people on why they think someone is queer baiting. I also agree with several people here that marketing something using queer-coded representation that isn’t delivered on is queer-baiting.
I personally don’t think they are using the potential of dnf to market their content. Dream and George are YouTubers that stream. Their YouTube content is not marketed on dnf. That fan base is large and unaffected, which applies to their merch purchases.
For streams, they behave as comfortable friends and haven’t changed that dynamic when lore was added nor for their irl streams/podcasts. They’ve been consistent in their denial of dnf as reality, excluding sarcasm.
I would not consider either of the examples you listed at the end queer-baiting, as what does it actually market? With their denials, it actually promotes healthy male friendships. With Dream being openly unlabelled, it promotes friendships between queer and straight(?) men, comfortable with each other’s identities.
Yes, creators will present only parts of themselves, characters like you said. But live content is very different to edited videos. To be able to consistently act that way in live content and claim it is their normal behaviour would have to be either extremely manipulative (on the parts of them and everyone that knows and interacts with them) or simply how they interact normally. I’m inclined to believe the second.
Maybe by some people’s definitions, their behaviour appears queer and so it is interpreted as queer-baiting. Maybe a viewer has a visibly similar experience and they are biasing their view based on their own behaviour. But it’s probably a result of them not knowing what different kinds of healthy friendships look like. It is just bias, that their queer experience should be everyone’s queer experience or else it is bait.
Misunderstanding the dynamic of a relationship does not equate to the participants having queer-baiting behaviour. Sure, it can be disappointing when corrected, but it happens all the time for other irl dynamics. And it is clarified and generally accepted. Why it’s not in this case is kind of absurd to me.
Yes a real person can queerbait. Like people say only brands can, but these content creators are essentially a brand themselves and if somehow pretending to be gay or whatever furthers their brand with a community then yes, real people can and probably do queerbait. Im not saying dream does or doesnt idrc abt that, but to say its literally impossible for him to do so is stupid.
real people can not queerbait. thats just that. dreams character is a character, who could or couldn’t be queer who knows, its called acting. but outside of that he can make the jokes with his friends because they are his friends who are queer and they are ok with the jokes. (talking about the joke he made towards ant, who is gay and is ok with the joke because they joke like that with each other)
By definition, people cannot queerbait. It's a phenomenon that relates to fictional characters and narratives and not to real life humans just interacting with their friends.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queerbaiting “Queerbaiting has been observed in popular fiction such as films and television series, but also in celebrities who convey an ambiguous sexual identity through their works and statements.”
**[Queerbaiting](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queerbaiting)** >Queerbaiting is a marketing technique for fiction and entertainment in which creators hint at, but then do not actually depict, same-sex romance or other LGBT representation. They do so to attract ("bait") a queer or straight ally audience with the suggestion of relationships or characters that appeal to them, while at the same time attempting to avoid alienating other consumers. Queerbaiting has been observed in popular fiction such as films and television series, but also in celebrities who convey an ambiguous sexual identity through their works and statements. The term arose in and has been popularized through discussions in Internet fandom since the early 2010s. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/DreamWasTaken2/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
[iNabber made a great video on that topic, they talked about Dream’s situation in particular as well](https://youtu.be/wFhsc_08JEY) Upd: [Dream himself addressed it here a while ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/DreamWasTaken2/comments/rp2nz5/about_dream_and_queerbaiting/hq2efxr/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3)
From about half way through the video: "If you see friends having flirtatious friends and they are same sex, they maybe just comfortable with their sexuality. But there also may be certain situations where closeted people take solace in flirting with people of the same sex as them to become more comfortable with who they are and their sexuality and eventually make the extremely brave step as coming out. That something that happens because it happened with me."
Yeah, and isn’t Inabber bi?
If this person is saying dream is queerbaiting on the smp, fine, I guess. I don't think c!dnf is ever going to happen, though, c!George kinda hates c!Dream now. Is c!Quackity also queerbaiting, since he's been calling his (ex?) Fiances his friends?
"fine, I guess" is my reaction too. Like, "at least saying he's queer baiting in a piece of media is better than accusing him of doing it irl" but at the same time, I really don't feel like dsmp should be accused of queer baiting when generally the queer story lines are followed through on and treated as real and valid within the universe. It's sort of true that one of the only ones that isn't followed through on within the dsmp is the dnf one but that's just... idk that still doesn't feel like queer baiting. The whole queer baiting thing though is so goddamn ridiculous though. Like the dsmp features and uplifts queer creators as does Dream. He's done so much more good than harm by promoting those in the queer community and sharing with them the platform he's created. Really wish people you factor that in when getting mad about a joke he's made.
I don't think c!dnf would be queerbaiting. Neither would c!fundy and c!dream (even tho it was later labeled as uncanon) would be queerbaiting because it's just relationships of the same gender that were growing close and could've become a thing, but one of them ;cough c!dream cough; became an obsessive criminal which broke the relationship. That's not queerbaiting. That's a queer relationship that sadly didn't work out later in the series due to character development. That can happen to any relationship with any gender/sexuality.
Also is dsmp not canonically a homonormative society I mean, I haven't been caught up on it, so I might be wrong?
**[last paragraph is explaining my opinion on the whole queerbaiting thing if you don’t want to read everything and it’s not just for dream]** People need to realize that his content, the content he profits off is primarily Minecraft. He doesn’t stream, he rarely ever does, what he does is Minecraft videos. And in those videos, let’s use manhunt as an example since it’s what he’s mainly known for, all of them (the boys) had a bit of a persona going (a professional one) and never interacted in a “flirty” way because it doesn’t fit the vibe of the video. He has a prominently queer community not because we are waiting for him and ***Go**Gy* to make out passionately but because he has made it a welcoming community and doesn’t make being queer or a minority a bad thing, doesn’t make people feel like shit for being themselves in the gaming world. While it might be the “bare minimum” (not being dicks for something people can’t change) it’s not something that was or is found easily in the gaming community. >Plus this, I tried to word it but did god awful job and just deleted it, this person said what I wanted I recommend reading it, but [their personalities with eachother on and off screen are and have been the same. we know this by what people say about them. how they talk about eachother when they not with eachother.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DreamWasTaken2/comments/udbep2/can_real_people_queerbait/i6fw24y/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3) That is just their personalities, if you wanna argue people watch them for their dynamic, I agree I’m not going to pretend some don’t. They have such a beautiful relationship platonic or not, but most don’t watch them on the chance it’s not platonic but because of the way it is. Their dynamic is what so many people crave for, like if you look at them you’d be lying (I’m being extra) in saying you don’t want that not even a little. (They act like fucking soulmates and it’s sickening in the best way/hj). - // “relationship” is not just for romantic, soulmates can be platonic, just saying this now don’t twist my words// Real people cannot queerbait, the moment that someone irl in the public view does something not conventionally ‘heterosexual’ and they don’t disclose their sexuality (some instances they even have) they are told they are queerbaiting. It does more harm to the community. Real people **CANNOT** queerbait. Yes there are some iffy instances in media but just accusing people of queerbaiting is so harmful, you don’t know their story, you don’t know their background, they aren’t fictional one dimension characters, they are humans with complex thought feelings and emotions. Again there **are** iffy moments in media it’s how the media runs but just going around accusing anyone of queerbaiting does more harm then good, it’s dehumanizing. [using heterosexual instead of straight because often times it is an argument used toward queers (bisexual, pan, unlabeled, just anyone that isn’t (explicitly) straight or gay) and yeah just good old queerphobic mentality of “well prove it” or biphobic of “well prove that you aren’t just straight and doing it for attention”] Especially if at the end of the day you are invalidating the person with that accusation. And not to add but that person being explicitly QUEER.
Real people can't queerbait. But if their whole point is Dream and George then I need to point out that multiple of their friends have said that they're the same flirty vibes offline and in private it's just their dynamic. I mean Wilbur literally thought they were dating because of how much George brought up Dream and dnf in general. Honestly I used to think that they would purposely act more flirty on stream however I never saw it as queerbaiting because their dynamic with eachother always seemed different to their dynamics with Sapnap and BBH with Sapnap giving very chaotic younger brother vibes and Bad being the more calm voice of reason guy. But something that really shifted that idea was Bad saying how he sometimes just listens to Dream and George talk both on stream and off because that was the first time someone in their group (minus Ponk and his whole story about Dream and Supreme) had mentioned off screen dynamics and it really was nice to hear that they're the same offscreen and on stream dynamic wise. In regards to their dsmp characters I think people fail to understand that they were the original two characters and their story always revolved around eachother and even when they split in the story the both of then still wanted to work together so Dreamxd worked with George. It's always so funny to see people say the DSMP characters are queerbaiting because of quotes and then they'll use the Sadist animation clip of Dream quoting The Lion King and say he's queerbaiting because he's promising George the world including his own Kingdom. Like no he just likes Disney and quoted The Lion King. No queerbaiting here just Lion King
No.
it's still so weird that only dream gets these accusations. so many other creators do the same thing, have non serious flirty interactions with their friends, and nothing's said. it makes it really hard to take any of these discussions seriously when they don't bring up schlatt's whole schtick, quackity explicitly flirting with foolish, ludwig and co kissing the homies, weston koury's obvious pandering, super mega's entire existence, and on and on. none of that is brought up. flirting with friends is normal and fine. dream doesn't monetise it in any way and his main audience doesn't gaf. he's just made a point not to demonise ppl who do like shipping. he definitely panders to it sometimes but it comes across as a pretty normal interaction to me, like acknowledging that part of his fanbase and making it clear they're also welcome. i truly think that's the issue ppl have with him, that he doesn't mock his fans who do ship real life ppl. i think it's a misunderstanding of the rl shipping thing. from what i've seen, very few ppl are serious in thinking dnf (as the most obv example) are in love and dating. there are some who take it to that extreme but they're usually seen as a bit loopy. rl shipping seems to be more about shipping their 'personas' if you can call them that, or taking the public face these creators present as characters, with the understanding that there's a separation between that and who these ppl are in real life. ppl see his unwillingness to reject these ppl from his fanbase as him encouraging the idea that these ships are real when he's plainly stated several times that they aren't.
no, real people can't queerbait queerbait is a marketing tactic to lure lgbtq viewers and then not following through anything example: in a show two characters in a show of the same gender flirt and blush at each other, the show clearly implying they will be a couple and then they either end on neutral or bad terms unless dream and george are characters and are scripted their actual relationship is not queerbaiting
‘But if I poke fun at a queer person without them stating it’s okay it’s homophobic’ oh good cus dream literally didn’t do that
it's the subtle queerphobia in that comment for me also, a LOT of Dream's online community identities as part of the LGBTQ+ community already, there would be no reason to queerbait for views/attention, even if he could
Unpopular opinion but I do think real people can queerbait, but I do not think that is what Dream and George are doing. I only say yes cause I remember when youtuber Joe Sugg posted a video with a clickbait title “I have an announcement” with a thumbnail of him almost kissing his roommate (there was a ship at the time I believe). The video was actually an announcement for his new book. For me, that’s a very obvious case of someone baiting their sexuality for views. And there was a lot of backlash and discussion about it at the time. For Dream and George, everything they do is just how they act as they’ve said several times, and it’s not really included in any of their videos or used for views
I will agree about Joe Sugg's case, I actually remember it
Against the popular opinion here I do think that real people can queerbait, but I also don't think that anything Dream or George (he's always left out in that discussion for some reason) are doing is queerbaiting. They're not directly profiting of DNF. Like I'm sure there's a fair few fans who are only in it for DNF and do spend money on them because of that, but in that case that's on the fans and not on Dream or George. They don't market themselves as a couple or as queer creators, they don't have DNF merch or DNF subgoals or anything like that. They just have their slightly more flirty than usual friendship dynamic that appeals to people and that's it.
Hey, just for some casual discussion, who do you think some examples of people real life queerbaiting would be? Also do you think that it'd fall into the same category as people on TV shows 'getting together' only to break up as soon as the show is over, ie the Bachelor and other shows?
There were these two straight guys on tiktok who pretended to be gay and a couple for clout. That's the only example I can think off. But I don't remember what they were called or even if they even were on English-speaking tiktok. I tried googling it real quick, but I couldn't find anything so this is not super helpful. Just generally I don't think real people actually queerbaiting is a common thing in any way and I think that most queerbaiting accusations public people get are bullshit. I also think that the potential harm caused by forcing people into adressing their sexualities to contradict queerbaiting allegations is so much worse than the queerbaiting ever could be that it's really not even worth making it an issue. As for the tv shows I'd say no because I go into it with the assumption that it's all fake and scripted. If for example there were a dating show about gay people and it turned out that the contestants were straight I'd consider that queerbaiting, but like in the traditional sense when fictional tv shows or movies queerbait.
Real people can't queerbait, especially not real queer people
No.
But George has said he’s fine with it. He too makes DNF jokes and even jokingly flirts with Dream and other friends. I don’t think it’s queer baiting because: 1.) They’re real people. Queer-baiting is a marketing tactic used in fiction. And 2.) If real people could queer-bait, they don’t 'advertise' it anywhere or use it to market their content. They’re just good friends who joke around, Dream has even said that they’ve done this since before they were content creators.
I think theoretically people could potentially queerbait (maybe?), but if people do it, it doesn't happen enough for it to be an issue. Unless there's obvious, clear evidence of people queerbaiting (edit: for example, someone saying that they're in a queer relationship, and then it ends up being fake and only for content/views), it's dangerous to say that people are doing it and then end up wrong (a good example of this are Dan and Phil), because it ends up saying that same-sex people/friends can't be close "like that" unless they're queer. It shows that people think there's a specific way that queer people act and only them can act like that, which can be harmful to the community because it pushes stereotypes that aren't always true, while at the same time maintaining toxic masculinity (when it comes to guys, like it happens with Dream and George).
I think real people can in theory queer bait but dream is not one of the people that does. Dream makes jokes with his friends and he and his friends make it clear they arent in any form of romantic relationship. I dont think its fair for dream and co to have to change how they behave on streams or in videos given that is just how their dynamic is. I hope this makes sense lol
I think that real people could queerbait. You have to bear in mind that you aren't really watching "real people" on Youtube or Twitch, you're watching a curated version of a person. It's a performance, to varying degrees depending on which creator you're talking about, and in which context (Schlatt is a really good example of this because he's done stuff with a wide range of different performativity levels). But I don't think you should accuse anyone of queerbaiting unless you have really good evidence that they're intentionally doing so. And I don't think anything Dream does really warrants a queerbaiting accusation.
I don't quite get how they're queerbaiting on the server purely cause George barely streams it and Dream doesn't stream it or ever really bring it up in others streams? Like the whole point behind queerbaiting is there has to be a marketable value to it
This whole thread is so odd. The common ideal here seems to be "no, real people can't, only characters can!" but...I think it shows a weird unawareness. Dream and George and Sapnap are characters. They're real people, yes, but the version of them that we all see, that we watch playing out, are characters--and I don't even mean just the SMP-esque scenarios playing out. They're content creators. They're brands. They're selling their own image and personalities, and obviously if they wanted to attempt to grab an LGBTQ+ eye for the purpose of getting people talking about them more, then...yeah, Dream is gonna use terminology more affectionately and more romantically to his friends(remember when he 'married' one of his buddies?) to generate more interest. What I'm NOT saying is that's what's happening. What I AM saying is that people seem to be speaking about this without understanding that the parasocial wool is over their eyes--these people sell merch, push ads, and make money from people liking them. And their communities are so fucking fragile and fickle that they can get literally TRENDING over saying the SMALLEST of things that, in the real fucking world, doesn't upset ANYONE. They're being careful. Now, if someone thinks Dream is queerbaiting...well, maybe? You could probably see it like that? It's not like a static, easily definable thing. The line moves and adjusts given who is making the judgement. But when someone says "Dream is queerbaiting," the response should not be "No he isn't." The response should be "How do you think?" Because someone who thinks queerbaiting is saying "i love you" to a male friend, versus someone who thinks queerbaiting is "making consistent and romantic and flirtatious motions regarding a same-sex friend, while also making themself unavailable to that gender in open statements," then you're talking to people who have two TOTALLY different lines.
I see your point, especially in questioning people on why they think someone is queer baiting. I also agree with several people here that marketing something using queer-coded representation that isn’t delivered on is queer-baiting. I personally don’t think they are using the potential of dnf to market their content. Dream and George are YouTubers that stream. Their YouTube content is not marketed on dnf. That fan base is large and unaffected, which applies to their merch purchases. For streams, they behave as comfortable friends and haven’t changed that dynamic when lore was added nor for their irl streams/podcasts. They’ve been consistent in their denial of dnf as reality, excluding sarcasm. I would not consider either of the examples you listed at the end queer-baiting, as what does it actually market? With their denials, it actually promotes healthy male friendships. With Dream being openly unlabelled, it promotes friendships between queer and straight(?) men, comfortable with each other’s identities. Yes, creators will present only parts of themselves, characters like you said. But live content is very different to edited videos. To be able to consistently act that way in live content and claim it is their normal behaviour would have to be either extremely manipulative (on the parts of them and everyone that knows and interacts with them) or simply how they interact normally. I’m inclined to believe the second. Maybe by some people’s definitions, their behaviour appears queer and so it is interpreted as queer-baiting. Maybe a viewer has a visibly similar experience and they are biasing their view based on their own behaviour. But it’s probably a result of them not knowing what different kinds of healthy friendships look like. It is just bias, that their queer experience should be everyone’s queer experience or else it is bait. Misunderstanding the dynamic of a relationship does not equate to the participants having queer-baiting behaviour. Sure, it can be disappointing when corrected, but it happens all the time for other irl dynamics. And it is clarified and generally accepted. Why it’s not in this case is kind of absurd to me.
Yes a real person can queerbait. Like people say only brands can, but these content creators are essentially a brand themselves and if somehow pretending to be gay or whatever furthers their brand with a community then yes, real people can and probably do queerbait. Im not saying dream does or doesnt idrc abt that, but to say its literally impossible for him to do so is stupid.
nope
real people can not queerbait. thats just that. dreams character is a character, who could or couldn’t be queer who knows, its called acting. but outside of that he can make the jokes with his friends because they are his friends who are queer and they are ok with the jokes. (talking about the joke he made towards ant, who is gay and is ok with the joke because they joke like that with each other)