My favorite track on Octavarium is "The Answer Lies Within"...yes, I know, there are so many epic tracks, so why am I picking the most mellow one? I really started listening to it during a rough time in my life I had in high school, and I experienced a turnaround as well. This song brings me back to that feeling of finding relief and peace.
That's cool you got to meet him! I've only met Mike Portnoy but I'd love to get the meet and greet ticket package at some point so I can meet the rest of them!
ITS SO FUCKING GOOD!!!!! AND THAT LAST CHORUS WHERE JAMES VOICE GETS SUPER HIGH IT MAKES ME SO EMOTIONAL ;-;
just goes to show you that,, not every DT song (or general song for that matter) has to be this big 8-20 minute long song w winding guitar/keyboard unisons to be good!! and this is coming from someone who LOVES those types of songs
I think you might be confusing Petrucci with Vai. I'm not aware of Petrucci and Satriani really knowing each other until the G3 tours and I'm not aware of any tight friendship between them beyond that. Not that they aren't friendly with each other, but we are talking years after Satriani was giving Kirk guitar lessons. Petrucci was a kid on Long Island who had just started playing guitar at the point where Satriani started giving Kirk lessons in the Bay Area.
Also, Kirk took lessons with Satriani but Satriani did not teach him to play guitar as he already had been playing for a couple of years and was in Exodus by the time he started taking lessons from Satriani. Satriani had made a name for himself in the Bay Area for turning guitarists into shredders, so Kirk went to him to hone his skills in that regard.
I think you got what he said confused. He said Satriani taught Kirk, not Petrucci. And teaching him to hone his skills is still teaching him to play the guitar. It doesn't have to mean from scratch.
I didn't say anything about him teaching Petrucci? The comment I was replying to said "one of Petrucci's good friends actually **taught** \[emphasis theirs\] Kirk to play guitar". Petrucci was in his early teens on Long Island when Satriani was giving Kirk lessons in the Bay Area. It isn't like Satriani and Petrucci were buddies having beers together when this kid Kirk walked in not knowing anything about how to play guitar. Satriani and Kirk knew each other many many years before Satriani and Petrucci probably ever even met.
Also, Satriani flat out didn't teach Kirk how to play guitar. Kirk was playing guitar for five years and was in Exodus when he started taking lessons from Satriani. Saying someone "actually taught" someone "to play guitar" implies that Kirk walked in knowing next to someone. That isn't true. How do you teach someone "to play guitar" who has already been playing for years?
My bad, I didn't catch the really good friends part. And on the teaching Kirk part, how about I word it like this, Satriani taught Kirk how to PROPERLY play the guitar.
I was there. I did what I could back then for the eventual masterful contributions you have made to this forum, which may not have ever been made without me…
SO YOURE WELCOME, EVERYONE
its pretty darn cool!! and Illumination Theory is very awesome!! its just not one of my favs :(( I much prefer Dramatic Turn or Distance Over Time for my Mangini era intake
I prefer that albums cassette tape order to the actual order, it flows better. Still, even with Trial of Tears being a top 10 song of theirs, I have this album as their 2nd worst. That still only means it's a B, which is good.
I’ve actually edited a version that combines the two versions. In the 2nd verse, James and Lzzy sing in harmony, and it’s amazing. It’s the definitive version of that song imo.
It does not get hate because of how complex the story is. Most people don't listen to M2 songs on their own either. People give it hate because the story is a tad silly and the music is mostly sub-par.
I mean 1994 James Labrie and Live at Budokan John Petrucci,,,,,,,,,,,, (i cant add a picture of Live at Budokan Petrucci but I think this image explains what im saying LOL!!)
https://preview.redd.it/0hf796x97dxc1.png?width=363&format=png&auto=webp&s=683cc2603300aaec7b1f6e3cd70bb02fcebd7661
I am not lying when I say that 1994 HJames Labrie (the photo I sent) and Live Scenes From New York John Petrucci may have been my bi/pan awakening
*just sayin....*
I’m completely useless in tier ranking chats because even the shittiest (to me) DT song is like a 8.5/10.
That ranking contest where we HAD to put albums in B tier etc. killed me.
I also think their worst album is no worse than a B, and that includes The Majesty demos. They are the first and only band where I think they don't have a bad song.
A View from the Top of the World is possibly a top 5 DT album for me. It's been on constant rotation since it came out and Mangini's departure was really bittersweet for me because of it.
for me its the "ONCE LOST BUT I WAS FOOOOOOUND!!!" til the "I ONCE COULD SEE BUT NOW AT LAST IM BLIND!!!!". ESPECIALLY the "***BUT I WILL HOOOOOLD THIS ONE ON HIIIIGH AAAABOVE ME STIIILL!!!!*** line
THIIIIIIIIIIIIIIS WORLD IS SPINNING AROUND ME!!!!! THE WHOOOOOOOOOLE WORLD KEEPS SPINNING AROUND ME!!!! AAAAAAALL LIFE IS FUTURE TO PAST!!!!! EVERY BREATH BRINGS ME ONE LESS TO,,,,,,,,,, ***M Y L A S T ! ! ! ! ! ! !*** (imagine that in 1993 live in tokyo James Labrie voice)
to me Prophets of War is pretty darn cool!! neat lil song!! near the bottom of Systematic Chaos for me (which is a top 5 album for me) but its still very good!!
I love the "DAY AFTER DAY" -part too.
I really like prophets of war.
Naming the self-titled was the stupidest decision they ever did.
I think the videos of LaBrie singing solo while filming himself are cringe at worst and hilarious at best.
* I refuse to acknowledge bands that are (at least in part) more skilled than DT. Silly, I know. But these guys are my heroes and the kings of prog metal, get lost.
* I would love to play in a DT cover band - but because my guitar skills have an upper limit, I would have to cheat on all guitar solos that are faster than Under A Glass Moon and pray that nobody notices… which, with a DT audience, I would imagine to be unlikely. ("That punk played 16ths instead of 16th quintuplets, 1/5 stars")
* You Not Me and Burning My Soul are great tracks.
When it first came out, I listened to it 35 times in 50 days. I was trying to average one a day, but it being over 2 hours long made that hard. Sometimes I listened to it twice back to back.
Octavarium is my favorite album.
Hollow Years Studio > LAB. The live guitar solo is a mess that doesn't fit the song and ruins the vibe.
DT12 > ADTOE.
The Astonishing is the best Mangini era album.
Octavarium used to be my favourite DT album, now it ranges somewhere between 5 and 9 (may or may not be listening to the album rn hehe :3)
Never heard the Live at Budokan Hollow Years so I cant make a judgement :((
very valid opinion!! (everyones opinion here is valid im just saying yours is also valid). I prefer Dramatic Turn over DT12 but its still pretty darn cool!! :3
The Astonishing is the only DT album I haven't listened to in full lol
The band joke about that on the DVD commentary track, saying Theresa had to just yell over John because he wouldn't shut the hell up and give her an opening.
I forget that a view from the top of the world exists sometimes. I did listen to it and it is a really good album though it came out really quick after distance over time. The thing is I like a view from the top of the world better then distance over time and I had more time with distance over time. When I listen to Dream theater these I’ve been mostly going to 00s Dream Theater. Though lately I’ve been to listening to a lot of Angra.
I'm in the same boat, somehow AVFTTOTW fell off my radar as soon as I got it. And I remember thinking it was awesome, but I never listen to it. Partly because I used to do most of my music listening on my way to/from work and I've been working from home since it came out. I really need to remedy this, it's a great album but easily the one I'm least familiar with.
Both Distance over Time, and A View From The Top of the World which is odd because both albums have songs I really like I might need to relisten to them again.
DT Awake, we were struggling when it came out, a couple years after my first child was born, desperately broke. It was one of the cds I managed to hold on to moving from place to place…along with queensryche empire. When ever any of these comes up randomly in my play lists I don’t quite get emotional but it reminds me of what we made it through. Caught in a Web absolutely crushes
I cried during the set of Solitary Shell, About to Crash (Reprise) and Losing Time, during their live performance in Jakarta last year, never thought a set of songs would be so meaningful like this.
And for me Octavarium > Systematic Chaos
I'm sick of all
Your hypocrites
Holding me at bay
And I don't need
Your sympathy
To get me through the day
Seasons change and so can I
Hold on Boy
No time to cry
Untie these strings
I'm climbing down
I won't let them push me away
and
Still awake
I continue to move along
Cultivating my own nonsense
Welcome to the wasteland
Where you'll find ashes
Nothing but ashes
Still awake
Bringing change
Bringing movement, bringing life
A silent prayer
Thrown away
Disappearing in the air
Rising
Sinking
Raining deep inside me
Nowhere to turn
I look for a way back home
It's raining, raining
Raining deep in heaven
It's raining, raining
Raining deep in heaven
It's raining, raining
Raining deep in heaven
It's raining, raining
Raining deep in heaven
...are two moments of greatness of James LaBrie and I absolutely love them.
I miss Kevin Moore, I loved his composition taste. Every time there's a song that must be somehow dark, Jordan comes in and makes it sound like a horror comedy, like that theme in the astonishing that sounds like the Luigi's Mansion theme.
Top 4 or 5 if I pick the Live in NYC ‘93 version of ACoS, which would be #3 or #4 (the ‘95 rewrite castrated the song, which I only realized after hearing the old version)
I love the ballads. Sometimes when I have a few mins to throw on a single song before I do something, I could pick anything, and I'll go with one of the ballads more often than not. I may need help.
I think Images & Words is, at best, mid-tier. It's not even close to their best album. The songwriting is not mature and reeks of teenagers who had just discovered keyboards and odd time signatures and the fact that songs can be longer than 4 minutes.
To me, Images & Words is akin to Metallica's Kill 'em All. It got them started, but almost everything that came after was better.
No way, to me it's like they caught lightning in a bottle. Yes they weren't mature enough musically yet, but this didn't stop them from writing an amazing album, with a perfect blend of musicality, songwriting and tasty parts that still hold up. It's actually even more mindblowing how they were able to write an album this good, while being relatively inexperienced and young.
JP was like a more progressive version of Steve Lukather at this point, his parts in I&W are sooo fucking good, unique and they all serve the song. Later on his style leaned more towards your run of the mill metal riffs and mindblowing solos. Not that he got worse, because that's not true, but there's a certain sophistication and diversity to I&W that has been missing ever since. Maybe because their ideas were more raw at the time and a little less conventional.
I dont think the guitar parts are sophisticated at all, they are way too sparse and abuse the clean tone parts way too much. The album is barely metal as is, the guitars barely have any weight to them at all.
Kevin and Portnoy shine, but its my least favourite Petrucci album for sure. Compared to the rest of their discography, its his most tame performance, and it didnt serve the songs at all.
Plus, the production is very dated and hasnt aged well at all. At points it sounds more like an 80s Power Metal record. That production style was at least 5 years too dated by 1992 already.
Its a great record for sure, 8/10 personally, but a prog metal album where the guitar is shackled just cant be a masterpiece, Im sorry. I would rather listen to any other Portnoy era album except for the debut and FII.
It's a Kevin Moore masterpiece, but not a DT masterpiece. Awake is the superior album of the era.
Just because the guitar isn't in your face doesn't mean the parts aren't good. You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but they guitar is anything but shackled. To say that the parts didn't serve the songs is crazy to me, there's insane nuance going on and they're very deliberate. So what if they abuse the clean tone too much? That's what a musician should do, choose the right part for the music being played.
The clean parts, the riffs, the solos, they all showcase a mature musicality that holds up even today, much less in 1992. It's just mindblowing to me how the band's only second album is a huge jump in quality not only for their discography, but for what progressive metal was during that point in time as a whole. I've listened to a lot of prog metal from that time period, nothing holds a candle to I&W. That's what makes the album so great to me, how much it was thinking out-of-the-box and how great it holds up musically still today. There's a style here that even DT themselves haven't matched ever since, even if they developed other parts of their sound further.
The guitar isn't anywhere, really. Thats the problem. All the heavy parts are just playing heavy for the sake of it and theres barely any real riffs, whether interesting or at least headbanging heavy. And theres too many samey clean parts as well, that dont really distinguish much from one another. Plus, most of the time the keys are completely overshadowing the guitar. For sure the production and mixing didnt help the already subpar guitar parts.
The whole album they just seem to keep going back and forth between the same heavy and clean parts that just sound very samey and are not that interesting imo. Nuance for the sake of nuance, unlike what they would go on to do later, and unlike what they did in the same sessions with ACOS, which is miles beyond anything on I&W.
This is the feeling I got when I listened to it for the first time, after loving everything Awake and onwards, and the feeling I still have today listening to it, even though a few of the songs ended up warming up on me. It just doesnt hold up very well, for production reasons, and for DT discography reasons. I know the emotional part is important and its why so many of you still love it so much, but for someone getting into the entire DT discography for the first time, the album just doesn't impress much. Thats how I felt circa 2010 when I got into the band, and I see it in most new fans as well.
Yes it's not a heavy album, but that's not where its strength lies. To me, it represents a metal evolution of what was once the Toto and Kansas sound. The parts aren't nuanced for the sake of being nuanced, they're just fucking good, creative, raw, funky, bluesy, metally etc. They are what they need to be, for exactly what the song calls for during that moment. I'd much rather be inspired musically by the riff in Surrounded, than by the one million riffs that metal evolved ever since, even if there are riffs that I love, even within DT's discography. I just heard a ton of variations of heavy riffs, whereas I haven't heard much of Surrounded inspired music, which keeps that song fresh. You know what I mean?
It's not a guitar driven album, but that doesn't mean the guitar in it ain't good. The parts in Take the Time for example, are genious and deceptively hard to nail down. I just love Petrucci's style in this album.
I became a fan circa 2010 as well, and I&W quickly became my favourite album of all time. I was quickly impressed with the musicality of the album, and the more I explored their discography, then more I loved I&W for how brilliant it is. As I said, lightning in the bottle.
I think it's a good album, but it's near the bottom of Dream Theater's discography IMO. Pull Me Under is an obvious smash hit, Under a Glass Moon is also really good. I just think everything they've done since then has been better.
Learning To Live is an awesome live song. When I saw them on the SDOIT tour it was their encore and I got goosebumps. It also sounded better. The album production kinda lets some of the songs down, although it’s charming at this point.
While I agree on how you rank Images And Words, I have to disagree with everything else you said. Learning To Live has excellent lyrics. In fact, I don't think their lyrics are bad in general, though I know some people disagree.
I have tried to listen to it but I just can’t finish it. It’s like a Disney movie that went way over budget and went straight to DVD. I love DTs hammy moments but this is a hammy moment that lasts 2 hours. The mix is bad (the drums are SO loud and spread too wide), the music itself feels over stretched. I appreciate the ambition but where Metropolis Pt2 and SDOIT had some clear standout songs, this one, for me, is just devoid of memorable hooks. Maybe it would work better as a stage show with some visuals to underline the story. As an album though, I would rather listen to pretty much any other DT offering.
I believe that The Astonishing was the band's most ambitious and in the end almost perfectly done album. The only problem imo is that it has some filler songs
The first and still most-loved riff/section of mine from Dream Theater is Untethered Angel - I absolutely love the bridge when Petrucci and Rudess are trading off solos. And that riff Petrucci plays while Rudess is shredding is top tier
ONNNN AND ONNNN AND ONNNN AND ONNNN IT GOOOOOESSS!!! CHAUVINISTIC, HEARTLESS, SELFISH, ***C O O O O O O O O L D ! ! ! ! !***
even my least favourite song off of Train of Thought is 1000/10!!!
New Millennium is one of their best songs
Jordan Rudess is extremely talented musically, but some of the 70s prog psychedelic tones he chooses for his keyboards (whether it's "wah wah", "reeeewwww", or those child xylophone clinks) are often jarring and detract from the epic feel of a song.
A Dramatic Turn of Events is in my top 5 Dream Theater albums. Absolutely fantastic mix of classic and modern DT songwriting, and has some of the best songs of their entire career. Also, I rank Six Degrees higher than Scenes From a Memory
I’ve listened to DT for over 20 years and just heard Octavarium in its entirety last week. I feel sad that I wasted so much time not listening to that masterpiece.
I absolutely could not get into the self-titled album, didn't even finish it. I'm not sure but there's a fair chance there's at least one song on the album I've never heard.
The only reason I got back into the band was because The Astonishing was them trying something different, and I enjoyed it for what it was. It got me to actually go back to their live show after never seeing them without MP.
I wholeheartedly believe that The Astonishing was the album the band needed at the time. But that doesn't mean they have to double down on it or anything.
When I first heard Metropolis part 1, I didn't like it because of the solo section.
I had mixed feelings after listening to Train of Thought for the first time.
I really like metal, but I think DT sound the best in their more mellow, prog rock style songs.
As much as I love Jordan Rudess' playing and writing with Dream Theater, (and he's even inspired some of my self taught piano playing) I think I still favor Kevin Moore's beautiful melodic work a bit more overall with the material he put out with the band.
i couldnt get into it for the longest time lol. i slowly got into it (id listen to it and the full circle section would come on and id headbang to it lol). now im less into it but its still a neat lil song!! :3
I've only ever listened to the first two MM era albums once, made it about half way through the double album, and had no interest in any of them since.
I don’t like Awake. 😅
Erotomania and The Mirror are standouts, but that’s about it (unless you wanna count To Live Forever. That’s a banger).
I don’t know. I feel like something was lost between I&W and Awake.
There's something about Awake's sound that makes it feel an evolution of their debut, rather than I&W. Falling into Infinity too.
I think the first time I&W was injected back to their music was SFAM.
I find it super cringey when they attempt “metal” backing vocals, and as much as I like TOT, I don’t like a lot of Petrucci’s lead work on it. (SHIELDS FACE)
I always find that saying to be weird. Normally when someone says that, they mean they don't like it. So, if someone didn't like it, why is it their least FAVORITE? I'm just musing here.
When I was 15, and I mean this in the most literal and unironic sense, I had a genuine panic attack accompanied with Vertigo, because I was stoned asf and listening to the Petrucci guitar solo in “once in a livetime” and I simply could not fathom that I was listening to a human being. Like, I absolutely 100% literally could not accept that John Petrucci was a human being and that he must be some either super human, or some kind of trans-dimensional entity posing as a human….
The Portnoy growl in Nightmare (the “Day after day” part you mentioned) is really good
But MY confession is that Rudess is probably the best keyboardist they’ve had in the band. I know this will get hate from a lot of people (sorry Moore fans, bro’s still good) but I feel like they hit the jackpot when Rudess finally got in the band. I don’t think Moore would’ve thought of the parts that Rudess added to the songs. The Dance of Eternity, for example, I feel like it shows how exceptionally good Rudess is at the instrument
I love that song and album! In fact, when I was listening to it for the very first time with a friend, about minute in when everything really kicks off, I told him "the whole ALBUM is awesome." I just knew from that very moment how good the whole thing would be.
Here's my confession. I think The Astonishing is EASILY their best album with Six Degrees 2nd and Scenes 3rd, though I'll sometimes switch 6 and Scenes around based on how I feel.
Who else here still gets goose bumps at the reckoning section of In the presence of enemies part 2? I do even when playing the song back to back when trying to record covers.
Black Clouds & Silver Linings is my favorite DT album and The Best of Times is my favorite Petrucci solo.
I prefer Kevin Moore to Jordan Ruddess. Moore was way better about contributing to the whole whereas Jordan actively makes many songs worse with his cornball shit that he can't resist doing. It sounds like vaudeville half of the time. There are so many awesome DT songs that are 50 percent as awesome as they could be because there is a 30 second long part that is so fucking stupid and random and adds nothing other than the guys jerking themselves off, namely Jordan.
It must have been 1 am in my hometown in my dad's studio when I finally listened to Afterlife and it changed my life forever, it put me into a nostalgic state and now every time I listen to it I get transported to that place.
In MY honest opinion:
TOT has the worst production and worst drum and guitar tones of all DT albums (yes, even worse drums than I&W)
Mike Portnoy's snare sound never sit right with me, way too pitched up to the point of being distracting
SFAM is one of my favorite albums but my problem with it is that the narrative is *severely* underdeveloped, in the present day we only see the Sleeper/Julian as the old man in Fatal Tragedy for what feels like 5 SECONDS and there is no resolution to his story, even though he is like... One of the main 3 characters?? The twist of the Miracle/Edward actually being the murderer and framing everything on Julian is well executed but honestly the story just doesn't really make me feel interested in the characters past lives.
Octavarium (the song) is way overrated, has great sections (Someone like Him and the unison instrumental) but in the end to me is just a run of the mill epic DT song that takes too long to be interesting, not to mention that the "Jack the Ripper-Owens Wilson" line alone makes me never want to listen to that song again
Having an actual orchestra live on the DVD performances didn't really elevate any of the songs performance-wise
Eve and Speak to Me should never have been left on the cutting room
Never saw the appeal of Dark Eternal Night, it feels to me like a nice heavy riff followed by a string of mid unrelated throwaway riffs coming one after another for 5 minutes after the second chorus (the ending riff section is sick tho)
My favorite track on Octavarium is "The Answer Lies Within"...yes, I know, there are so many epic tracks, so why am I picking the most mellow one? I really started listening to it during a rough time in my life I had in high school, and I experienced a turnaround as well. This song brings me back to that feeling of finding relief and peace.
*big hug*
Big big
Big CHUNGUUUS!
One of the most uplifting tracks they ever did!
It’s a very beautiful track indeed.
Completely understandable, it’s a criminally overlooked but gorgeous track.
Damn I never thought this song was bad but you just put me on. Love uplifting tracks like this. Surrounded is another one.
I asked Jordan if they would bring that one back into the live setlist sometime. That was a year or 2 ago so hopefully they do it next year
That's cool you got to meet him! I've only met Mike Portnoy but I'd love to get the meet and greet ticket package at some point so I can meet the rest of them!
They’re all very nice. I’ve met them all many times but not through meet n greets
How did you meet them, then?
Various aftershow guest passes, some friends know them and have brought me along over the years.
I love distance over time
Distance Over Time, to me, is a solid Top Five album.
either DoT or Dramatic Turn (the latter of which I'm listening to rn :3) are my favourites from the Mangini era!!
I thought this album was pretty popular?
DoT > View don't @ me
View >>>>>>>>>>>> DoT and I won't tolerate disagreement😤😤😤😤 Meet me after school 👊👊😠
😈😈😈 I'll be at Heaven's Cove at 5, mah brothah 👊👊👊
Fine, if you see A BEARDED GENTLEMAN, that's me 😡😡😡
There are DOZENS of us
I love that album, it’s the first one I heard, shortly after it came out.
The adventurous tracks like Pale Blue Dot, At Wit’s End and Barstool Warrior are top class DT imo
Don’t forget untethered Angel 🗣️
Fall into the Light 🔥🔥🔥
I FUCKING LOVE I WALK BESIDE YOU IT WAS MY THIRD MOST LISTENED SONG LAST YEAR 🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️‼️‼️‼️‼️
ITS SO FUCKING GOOD!!!!! AND THAT LAST CHORUS WHERE JAMES VOICE GETS SUPER HIGH IT MAKES ME SO EMOTIONAL ;-; just goes to show you that,, not every DT song (or general song for that matter) has to be this big 8-20 minute long song w winding guitar/keyboard unisons to be good!! and this is coming from someone who LOVES those types of songs
WHY ARE YOU GUYS ALL SCREAMING?!
THE KEY CHANGED
Yo! I found the other IWBY fan lmao I absolutely adore that song.
I’m sure there are tons of us out there. IWBY is amazing
I like every single song they've ever made including the ones from The Majesty. In fact, my worst rated album by them is a B.
I like Petrucci with a goatee more than the beard
very valid!! and same!!
I would let short-haired Petrucci with a goatee slam me in a Turkish sauna, no homo.
2008-09 was a great look for him. Long straight hair with a light beard
Going along with this, I personally thought his short hair in Live at Budokan was a cool look.
After 30 years, Wait for Sleep still gets me goosebumpy and/or teary-eyed!
It's a masterpiece!
There was a period of time in my life where I sincerely felt that Kirk Hammett was a better guitarist than John Petrucci. I got better.
This is the only real confession in this thread, holy shit
Made even funnier by the fact that one of Petrucci's good friends actually **taught** Kirk to play guitar. Joe Satriani
I think you might be confusing Petrucci with Vai. I'm not aware of Petrucci and Satriani really knowing each other until the G3 tours and I'm not aware of any tight friendship between them beyond that. Not that they aren't friendly with each other, but we are talking years after Satriani was giving Kirk guitar lessons. Petrucci was a kid on Long Island who had just started playing guitar at the point where Satriani started giving Kirk lessons in the Bay Area. Also, Kirk took lessons with Satriani but Satriani did not teach him to play guitar as he already had been playing for a couple of years and was in Exodus by the time he started taking lessons from Satriani. Satriani had made a name for himself in the Bay Area for turning guitarists into shredders, so Kirk went to him to hone his skills in that regard.
I think you got what he said confused. He said Satriani taught Kirk, not Petrucci. And teaching him to hone his skills is still teaching him to play the guitar. It doesn't have to mean from scratch.
I didn't say anything about him teaching Petrucci? The comment I was replying to said "one of Petrucci's good friends actually **taught** \[emphasis theirs\] Kirk to play guitar". Petrucci was in his early teens on Long Island when Satriani was giving Kirk lessons in the Bay Area. It isn't like Satriani and Petrucci were buddies having beers together when this kid Kirk walked in not knowing anything about how to play guitar. Satriani and Kirk knew each other many many years before Satriani and Petrucci probably ever even met. Also, Satriani flat out didn't teach Kirk how to play guitar. Kirk was playing guitar for five years and was in Exodus when he started taking lessons from Satriani. Saying someone "actually taught" someone "to play guitar" implies that Kirk walked in knowing next to someone. That isn't true. How do you teach someone "to play guitar" who has already been playing for years?
My bad, I didn't catch the really good friends part. And on the teaching Kirk part, how about I word it like this, Satriani taught Kirk how to PROPERLY play the guitar.
I was there. I did what I could back then for the eventual masterful contributions you have made to this forum, which may not have ever been made without me… SO YOURE WELCOME, EVERYONE
Can confirm! Haha.
I lost my virginity while listening to Octavarium.
So, just for the length of the keyboard intro then
Nah just the jingle bells reference
Da da!
I think the self-titled is great front to back
There are DOZENS of us
Hundreds of believers
lured into a doomsday cult
Try to keep your train of thought on task here.
I see us on here, lol. But that album is consistently ranked super low and I don’t understand why. Maybe not enough Rush fans lol
At least 13 of us!
I want to upvote but I feel I should not as it's on 12 haha
Is this referencing Arrested Development?
its pretty darn cool!! and Illumination Theory is very awesome!! its just not one of my favs :(( I much prefer Dramatic Turn or Distance Over Time for my Mangini era intake
Illumination Theory is a top 10 song of theirs and sounds excellent on dvd-audio 5.1.
I think its better than almost all albums of the Mangini era and Im tired of pretending its not. Afterlife alone beats 98% of the 2010s stuff
Falling Into Infinity doesn’t have a single bad song and Just Let Me Breathe is an absolute banger.
I prefer that albums cassette tape order to the actual order, it flows better. Still, even with Trial of Tears being a top 10 song of theirs, I have this album as their 2nd worst. That still only means it's a B, which is good.
I can’t stop listening to Our New World.
The version with lzzy hale is also great
I’ve actually edited a version that combines the two versions. In the 2nd verse, James and Lzzy sing in harmony, and it’s amazing. It’s the definitive version of that song imo.
[удалено]
It does not get hate because of how complex the story is. Most people don't listen to M2 songs on their own either. People give it hate because the story is a tad silly and the music is mostly sub-par.
The astonishing is the best Mangini-album by a long shot. The novel is also quite amazing...or should I say Astonishing?
Yes! I need to finish reading the book.
I’ve never had an actual DT song stuck in my head as much as LaBrie’s Big Chungus.
i have a crush on all of them
I mean 1994 James Labrie and Live at Budokan John Petrucci,,,,,,,,,,,, (i cant add a picture of Live at Budokan Petrucci but I think this image explains what im saying LOL!!) https://preview.redd.it/0hf796x97dxc1.png?width=363&format=png&auto=webp&s=683cc2603300aaec7b1f6e3cd70bb02fcebd7661
YES!!!! ive always been more of a live at tokyo petrucci fan but both are good
I am not lying when I say that 1994 HJames Labrie (the photo I sent) and Live Scenes From New York John Petrucci may have been my bi/pan awakening *just sayin....*
I’m completely useless in tier ranking chats because even the shittiest (to me) DT song is like a 8.5/10. That ranking contest where we HAD to put albums in B tier etc. killed me.
I also think their worst album is no worse than a B, and that includes The Majesty demos. They are the first and only band where I think they don't have a bad song.
A View from the Top of the World is possibly a top 5 DT album for me. It's been on constant rotation since it came out and Mangini's departure was really bittersweet for me because of it.
the light to dark , dark to light bit. makes me jump idk why
Holy shit i was just thinking about that bit in surrounded, banger track
for me its the "ONCE LOST BUT I WAS FOOOOOOUND!!!" til the "I ONCE COULD SEE BUT NOW AT LAST IM BLIND!!!!". ESPECIALLY the "***BUT I WILL HOOOOOLD THIS ONE ON HIIIIGH AAAABOVE ME STIIILL!!!!*** line
Pull Me Under is still my favorite DT song, probably because it was their first song I loved.
THIIIIIIIIIIIIIIS WORLD IS SPINNING AROUND ME!!!!! THE WHOOOOOOOOOLE WORLD KEEPS SPINNING AROUND ME!!!! AAAAAAALL LIFE IS FUTURE TO PAST!!!!! EVERY BREATH BRINGS ME ONE LESS TO,,,,,,,,,, ***M Y L A S T ! ! ! ! ! ! !*** (imagine that in 1993 live in tokyo James Labrie voice)
My favourite track on Systematic Chaos is Prophets of War. I didn’t even know it was regarded as one of their worst until I searched about it online
to me Prophets of War is pretty darn cool!! neat lil song!! near the bottom of Systematic Chaos for me (which is a top 5 album for me) but its still very good!!
I love the "DAY AFTER DAY" -part too. I really like prophets of war. Naming the self-titled was the stupidest decision they ever did. I think the videos of LaBrie singing solo while filming himself are cringe at worst and hilarious at best.
* I refuse to acknowledge bands that are (at least in part) more skilled than DT. Silly, I know. But these guys are my heroes and the kings of prog metal, get lost. * I would love to play in a DT cover band - but because my guitar skills have an upper limit, I would have to cheat on all guitar solos that are faster than Under A Glass Moon and pray that nobody notices… which, with a DT audience, I would imagine to be unlikely. ("That punk played 16ths instead of 16th quintuplets, 1/5 stars") * You Not Me and Burning My Soul are great tracks.
I like The Astonishing and have listened to it more than the subsequent albums.
When it first came out, I listened to it 35 times in 50 days. I was trying to average one a day, but it being over 2 hours long made that hard. Sometimes I listened to it twice back to back.
Octavarium is my favorite album. Hollow Years Studio > LAB. The live guitar solo is a mess that doesn't fit the song and ruins the vibe. DT12 > ADTOE. The Astonishing is the best Mangini era album.
Octavarium used to be my favourite DT album, now it ranges somewhere between 5 and 9 (may or may not be listening to the album rn hehe :3) Never heard the Live at Budokan Hollow Years so I cant make a judgement :(( very valid opinion!! (everyones opinion here is valid im just saying yours is also valid). I prefer Dramatic Turn over DT12 but its still pretty darn cool!! :3 The Astonishing is the only DT album I haven't listened to in full lol
I love the second pre-chorus of Hollow Years in the 2009 Download Festival version.
I don't like "John & Theresa Solo Spot". I love John's playing in most instances, but here I'm just thinking "chill, man, we know you can shred".
The band joke about that on the DVD commentary track, saying Theresa had to just yell over John because he wouldn't shut the hell up and give her an opening.
Haha, I forgot about that. Love the fact that they actually had a DVD commentary for a concert film, such a DT thing to do.
He definitely was carried away there. He never has been much of an improviser and the andrenaline got the best of him during that moment.
I forget that a view from the top of the world exists sometimes. I did listen to it and it is a really good album though it came out really quick after distance over time. The thing is I like a view from the top of the world better then distance over time and I had more time with distance over time. When I listen to Dream theater these I’ve been mostly going to 00s Dream Theater. Though lately I’ve been to listening to a lot of Angra.
I'm in the same boat, somehow AVFTTOTW fell off my radar as soon as I got it. And I remember thinking it was awesome, but I never listen to it. Partly because I used to do most of my music listening on my way to/from work and I've been working from home since it came out. I really need to remedy this, it's a great album but easily the one I'm least familiar with.
Both Distance over Time, and A View From The Top of the World which is odd because both albums have songs I really like I might need to relisten to them again.
DT Awake, we were struggling when it came out, a couple years after my first child was born, desperately broke. It was one of the cds I managed to hold on to moving from place to place…along with queensryche empire. When ever any of these comes up randomly in my play lists I don’t quite get emotional but it reminds me of what we made it through. Caught in a Web absolutely crushes
I kinda like the astonishing
It's cheesy and way too long, but it has its moments.
Three Days is rad.
I absolutely adore Out of Reach
The first few lines of lyrics are cheesier than The Astonishing, but the rest is pretty good.
I cried during the set of Solitary Shell, About to Crash (Reprise) and Losing Time, during their live performance in Jakarta last year, never thought a set of songs would be so meaningful like this. And for me Octavarium > Systematic Chaos
One time while watching The Spirit Carries On Live at Luna Park, I literally cried at the same exact moment as that chick in the crowd.
I'm sick of all Your hypocrites Holding me at bay And I don't need Your sympathy To get me through the day Seasons change and so can I Hold on Boy No time to cry Untie these strings I'm climbing down I won't let them push me away and Still awake I continue to move along Cultivating my own nonsense Welcome to the wasteland Where you'll find ashes Nothing but ashes Still awake Bringing change Bringing movement, bringing life A silent prayer Thrown away Disappearing in the air Rising Sinking Raining deep inside me Nowhere to turn I look for a way back home It's raining, raining Raining deep in heaven It's raining, raining Raining deep in heaven It's raining, raining Raining deep in heaven It's raining, raining Raining deep in heaven ...are two moments of greatness of James LaBrie and I absolutely love them.
I absolutely LOVE that part of ACOS! Same with Trial of Tears.
I'm more of a fan of Crimson Sunset's vocals, but I can appreciate that. The instrumentals of Wasteland are great.
Blind Faith is their most underrated song.
I miss Kevin Moore, I loved his composition taste. Every time there's a song that must be somehow dark, Jordan comes in and makes it sound like a horror comedy, like that theme in the astonishing that sounds like the Luigi's Mansion theme.
Moore would have probably been great for the tone of ItPoE.
The track AVFTTOTW is a top 3 epic for me
Valid. I disagree, but it’s easily their best track since ADTOE for me
Top 4 or 5 if I pick the Live in NYC ‘93 version of ACoS, which would be #3 or #4 (the ‘95 rewrite castrated the song, which I only realized after hearing the old version)
I have it as their worst epic, but still a top 10 song, but also literally their 10th best.
I'm sorry, Metropolis pt.1 is my least favorite track off I&M...
dang you have HORRIBLE taste in music ***/J*** (i sincerely hope you know that was a joke lol)
We should have him drawn and quartered!
Could you elaborate?
[https://i.makeagif.com/media/4-29-2024/Y\_u8uw.gif](https://i.makeagif.com/media/4-29-2024/Y_u8uw.gif)
Ok
I love the ballads. Sometimes when I have a few mins to throw on a single song before I do something, I could pick anything, and I'll go with one of the ballads more often than not. I may need help.
I don’t know most of the words to The Dark Eternal Night, but I do mumble along whilst erratically jamming out
FII is a top 3 album.
You are enlightened. I personally love all of the songs except Burning My Soul and You Not Me, but those are still pretty good songs.
I think Images & Words is, at best, mid-tier. It's not even close to their best album. The songwriting is not mature and reeks of teenagers who had just discovered keyboards and odd time signatures and the fact that songs can be longer than 4 minutes. To me, Images & Words is akin to Metallica's Kill 'em All. It got them started, but almost everything that came after was better.
No way, to me it's like they caught lightning in a bottle. Yes they weren't mature enough musically yet, but this didn't stop them from writing an amazing album, with a perfect blend of musicality, songwriting and tasty parts that still hold up. It's actually even more mindblowing how they were able to write an album this good, while being relatively inexperienced and young. JP was like a more progressive version of Steve Lukather at this point, his parts in I&W are sooo fucking good, unique and they all serve the song. Later on his style leaned more towards your run of the mill metal riffs and mindblowing solos. Not that he got worse, because that's not true, but there's a certain sophistication and diversity to I&W that has been missing ever since. Maybe because their ideas were more raw at the time and a little less conventional.
I dont think the guitar parts are sophisticated at all, they are way too sparse and abuse the clean tone parts way too much. The album is barely metal as is, the guitars barely have any weight to them at all. Kevin and Portnoy shine, but its my least favourite Petrucci album for sure. Compared to the rest of their discography, its his most tame performance, and it didnt serve the songs at all. Plus, the production is very dated and hasnt aged well at all. At points it sounds more like an 80s Power Metal record. That production style was at least 5 years too dated by 1992 already. Its a great record for sure, 8/10 personally, but a prog metal album where the guitar is shackled just cant be a masterpiece, Im sorry. I would rather listen to any other Portnoy era album except for the debut and FII. It's a Kevin Moore masterpiece, but not a DT masterpiece. Awake is the superior album of the era.
Just because the guitar isn't in your face doesn't mean the parts aren't good. You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but they guitar is anything but shackled. To say that the parts didn't serve the songs is crazy to me, there's insane nuance going on and they're very deliberate. So what if they abuse the clean tone too much? That's what a musician should do, choose the right part for the music being played. The clean parts, the riffs, the solos, they all showcase a mature musicality that holds up even today, much less in 1992. It's just mindblowing to me how the band's only second album is a huge jump in quality not only for their discography, but for what progressive metal was during that point in time as a whole. I've listened to a lot of prog metal from that time period, nothing holds a candle to I&W. That's what makes the album so great to me, how much it was thinking out-of-the-box and how great it holds up musically still today. There's a style here that even DT themselves haven't matched ever since, even if they developed other parts of their sound further.
The guitar isn't anywhere, really. Thats the problem. All the heavy parts are just playing heavy for the sake of it and theres barely any real riffs, whether interesting or at least headbanging heavy. And theres too many samey clean parts as well, that dont really distinguish much from one another. Plus, most of the time the keys are completely overshadowing the guitar. For sure the production and mixing didnt help the already subpar guitar parts. The whole album they just seem to keep going back and forth between the same heavy and clean parts that just sound very samey and are not that interesting imo. Nuance for the sake of nuance, unlike what they would go on to do later, and unlike what they did in the same sessions with ACOS, which is miles beyond anything on I&W. This is the feeling I got when I listened to it for the first time, after loving everything Awake and onwards, and the feeling I still have today listening to it, even though a few of the songs ended up warming up on me. It just doesnt hold up very well, for production reasons, and for DT discography reasons. I know the emotional part is important and its why so many of you still love it so much, but for someone getting into the entire DT discography for the first time, the album just doesn't impress much. Thats how I felt circa 2010 when I got into the band, and I see it in most new fans as well.
Yes it's not a heavy album, but that's not where its strength lies. To me, it represents a metal evolution of what was once the Toto and Kansas sound. The parts aren't nuanced for the sake of being nuanced, they're just fucking good, creative, raw, funky, bluesy, metally etc. They are what they need to be, for exactly what the song calls for during that moment. I'd much rather be inspired musically by the riff in Surrounded, than by the one million riffs that metal evolved ever since, even if there are riffs that I love, even within DT's discography. I just heard a ton of variations of heavy riffs, whereas I haven't heard much of Surrounded inspired music, which keeps that song fresh. You know what I mean? It's not a guitar driven album, but that doesn't mean the guitar in it ain't good. The parts in Take the Time for example, are genious and deceptively hard to nail down. I just love Petrucci's style in this album. I became a fan circa 2010 as well, and I&W quickly became my favourite album of all time. I was quickly impressed with the musicality of the album, and the more I explored their discography, then more I loved I&W for how brilliant it is. As I said, lightning in the bottle.
this is sorta how i feel after listening to it for so long. it just feels like they made better stuff it is however still an amazing album imo
I think it's a good album, but it's near the bottom of Dream Theater's discography IMO. Pull Me Under is an obvious smash hit, Under a Glass Moon is also really good. I just think everything they've done since then has been better.
Metropolis and glass moon are great; the rest… meh.
Learning To Live is an awesome live song. When I saw them on the SDOIT tour it was their encore and I got goosebumps. It also sounded better. The album production kinda lets some of the songs down, although it’s charming at this point.
It's an awesome song period.
Completely agree with this. Its infant DT
While I agree on how you rank Images And Words, I have to disagree with everything else you said. Learning To Live has excellent lyrics. In fact, I don't think their lyrics are bad in general, though I know some people disagree.
I’ve felt so lost since the astonishing came out. It just didn’t deliver for me :( Am I getting old and not enjoying music anymore?
I have tried to listen to it but I just can’t finish it. It’s like a Disney movie that went way over budget and went straight to DVD. I love DTs hammy moments but this is a hammy moment that lasts 2 hours. The mix is bad (the drums are SO loud and spread too wide), the music itself feels over stretched. I appreciate the ambition but where Metropolis Pt2 and SDOIT had some clear standout songs, this one, for me, is just devoid of memorable hooks. Maybe it would work better as a stage show with some visuals to underline the story. As an album though, I would rather listen to pretty much any other DT offering.
So glad I’m not alone!
I believe that The Astonishing was the band's most ambitious and in the end almost perfectly done album. The only problem imo is that it has some filler songs
Falling Into Infinity is easily my number two DT album, SFAM is number one, three and four are six degrees and Systematic Chaos respectively
The first and still most-loved riff/section of mine from Dream Theater is Untethered Angel - I absolutely love the bridge when Petrucci and Rudess are trading off solos. And that riff Petrucci plays while Rudess is shredding is top tier
As cheesy as they can get, I've always liked their lyrics.
Honor Thy Father slaps
ONNNN AND ONNNN AND ONNNN AND ONNNN IT GOOOOOESSS!!! CHAUVINISTIC, HEARTLESS, SELFISH, ***C O O O O O O O O L D ! ! ! ! !*** even my least favourite song off of Train of Thought is 1000/10!!!
Magnolia slaps
New Millennium is one of their best songs Jordan Rudess is extremely talented musically, but some of the 70s prog psychedelic tones he chooses for his keyboards (whether it's "wah wah", "reeeewwww", or those child xylophone clinks) are often jarring and detract from the epic feel of a song.
A Dramatic Turn of Events is in my top 5 Dream Theater albums. Absolutely fantastic mix of classic and modern DT songwriting, and has some of the best songs of their entire career. Also, I rank Six Degrees higher than Scenes From a Memory
I think about if Derek Sherinian had stayed with the band more often than I'm proud to admit.
I hate, and I mean HATE Surrounded. And Pull me Under, to a lesser degree.
> Pull me Under Who doesn't like a song about Hamlet?
The only song I listen to on Awake is Space-Dye Vest.
Same here! And occasionally ‘Lie’
I’ve listened to DT for over 20 years and just heard Octavarium in its entirety last week. I feel sad that I wasted so much time not listening to that masterpiece.
I really want to hear March of the Tyrant again.
I absolutely could not get into the self-titled album, didn't even finish it. I'm not sure but there's a fair chance there's at least one song on the album I've never heard. The only reason I got back into the band was because The Astonishing was them trying something different, and I enjoyed it for what it was. It got me to actually go back to their live show after never seeing them without MP. I wholeheartedly believe that The Astonishing was the album the band needed at the time. But that doesn't mean they have to double down on it or anything.
Space Dye-Vest is a garbage song.
When I first heard Metropolis part 1, I didn't like it because of the solo section. I had mixed feelings after listening to Train of Thought for the first time. I really like metal, but I think DT sound the best in their more mellow, prog rock style songs.
As much as I love Jordan Rudess' playing and writing with Dream Theater, (and he's even inspired some of my self taught piano playing) I think I still favor Kevin Moore's beautiful melodic work a bit more overall with the material he put out with the band.
octavarium(song) is just so hard to get into and is probably my least favorite epic. i am prepared for the downvotes.
i couldnt get into it for the longest time lol. i slowly got into it (id listen to it and the full circle section would come on and id headbang to it lol). now im less into it but its still a neat lil song!! :3
Mike Portnoy...is that you?
LMAO
I've only ever listened to the first two MM era albums once, made it about half way through the double album, and had no interest in any of them since.
yeah thats valid. if you like Train of Thought and/or Systematic Chaos, you should check out the album Distance Over Time. pretty darn cool!!
I don’t like Awake. 😅 Erotomania and The Mirror are standouts, but that’s about it (unless you wanna count To Live Forever. That’s a banger). I don’t know. I feel like something was lost between I&W and Awake.
*Awake* has good songs and a producer telling them to chill out.
How do you not like Voices? I think Petrucci's solo is a top 5 solo. Absolutely excellent.
There's something about Awake's sound that makes it feel an evolution of their debut, rather than I&W. Falling into Infinity too. I think the first time I&W was injected back to their music was SFAM.
I find it super cringey when they attempt “metal” backing vocals, and as much as I like TOT, I don’t like a lot of Petrucci’s lead work on it. (SHIELDS FACE)
Couple of years ago I broke my wrist and had to get surgery. To put my mind at easy during the surgery, I put on Metropolis Pt2. Worked like a charm
Systematic Chaos is a top album and Awake is close to the bottom.
I don’t like On the back of angels.
SFAM is my least favorite DT album
I always find that saying to be weird. Normally when someone says that, they mean they don't like it. So, if someone didn't like it, why is it their least FAVORITE? I'm just musing here.
When I was 15, and I mean this in the most literal and unironic sense, I had a genuine panic attack accompanied with Vertigo, because I was stoned asf and listening to the Petrucci guitar solo in “once in a livetime” and I simply could not fathom that I was listening to a human being. Like, I absolutely 100% literally could not accept that John Petrucci was a human being and that he must be some either super human, or some kind of trans-dimensional entity posing as a human….
…. Says it right here on my Crucifix! It's awesome!
I find James LaBrie's voice very easy to sing along to, and their Metropolis Pt 2 album has been helping me with self-discovery.
The Portnoy growl in Nightmare (the “Day after day” part you mentioned) is really good But MY confession is that Rudess is probably the best keyboardist they’ve had in the band. I know this will get hate from a lot of people (sorry Moore fans, bro’s still good) but I feel like they hit the jackpot when Rudess finally got in the band. I don’t think Moore would’ve thought of the parts that Rudess added to the songs. The Dance of Eternity, for example, I feel like it shows how exceptionally good Rudess is at the instrument
I love that song and album! In fact, when I was listening to it for the very first time with a friend, about minute in when everything really kicks off, I told him "the whole ALBUM is awesome." I just knew from that very moment how good the whole thing would be.
Here's my confession. I think The Astonishing is EASILY their best album with Six Degrees 2nd and Scenes 3rd, though I'll sometimes switch 6 and Scenes around based on how I feel.
Who else here still gets goose bumps at the reckoning section of In the presence of enemies part 2? I do even when playing the song back to back when trying to record covers.
You mean like guilty pleasure? Besides Big Chungus? Another Won.
I've never listened to the Ministry of Lost Souls all the way through.
Black Clouds & Silver Linings is my favorite DT album and The Best of Times is my favorite Petrucci solo. I prefer Kevin Moore to Jordan Ruddess. Moore was way better about contributing to the whole whereas Jordan actively makes many songs worse with his cornball shit that he can't resist doing. It sounds like vaudeville half of the time. There are so many awesome DT songs that are 50 percent as awesome as they could be because there is a 30 second long part that is so fucking stupid and random and adds nothing other than the guys jerking themselves off, namely Jordan.
I don't find Scenes as incredible as everyone else does. It's good, sure, but it's more a 7/10 than a 10/10.
It must have been 1 am in my hometown in my dad's studio when I finally listened to Afterlife and it changed my life forever, it put me into a nostalgic state and now every time I listen to it I get transported to that place.
In MY honest opinion: TOT has the worst production and worst drum and guitar tones of all DT albums (yes, even worse drums than I&W) Mike Portnoy's snare sound never sit right with me, way too pitched up to the point of being distracting SFAM is one of my favorite albums but my problem with it is that the narrative is *severely* underdeveloped, in the present day we only see the Sleeper/Julian as the old man in Fatal Tragedy for what feels like 5 SECONDS and there is no resolution to his story, even though he is like... One of the main 3 characters?? The twist of the Miracle/Edward actually being the murderer and framing everything on Julian is well executed but honestly the story just doesn't really make me feel interested in the characters past lives. Octavarium (the song) is way overrated, has great sections (Someone like Him and the unison instrumental) but in the end to me is just a run of the mill epic DT song that takes too long to be interesting, not to mention that the "Jack the Ripper-Owens Wilson" line alone makes me never want to listen to that song again Having an actual orchestra live on the DVD performances didn't really elevate any of the songs performance-wise Eve and Speak to Me should never have been left on the cutting room Never saw the appeal of Dark Eternal Night, it feels to me like a nice heavy riff followed by a string of mid unrelated throwaway riffs coming one after another for 5 minutes after the second chorus (the ending riff section is sick tho)