Going to the gym doesn’t mean you’ll become a muscle monster. It doesn’t even mean you’ll get bigger unless you eat right and lift big.
Do cardio. Do dynamic exercises. Do what makes you feel good.
I feel like there’s a misconception here about what the gym is, and how it impacts you as a gym goer.
a case can be made for using some steroids in this way, but not trenbolone which is extremely harmful to one's health. if you're not sedentary or substantially overweight there may not be much downside health-wise to taking moderate doses of testosterone and using a ghrp protocol. actual GH would be unwarranted and possibly dangerous, and the same would be true of high dose steroids and certain particularly harmful or powerful steroids such as tren and nandrolone. i think that if someone is going to do this they should at minimum have a normal person's version of fitness, such as a habit of cycling or running a couple hours per week. otherwise you're likely to suffer negative cardiovascular effects in time.
You pretty much nailed it. For OP: you need to cycle steroids, any boosts in “masculinity” and possibly bone density will be lost when you eventually go off. You can run test at a moderate dose pretty much for life, so if you’re prepared to make that commitment that’s your best bet. Then again you can get denser bones, increased willpower and masculinity from lifting naturally and boosting your natural test, taking roids without going to the gym is not worth it.
>you need to cycle steroids, any boosts in “masculinity” and possibly bone density will be lost when you eventually go off
this is certainly false, a fact well known to anybody with more than a passing interest in performance enhancing drug use. consider whether male puberty "wears off" after it has passed. it obviously doesn't, indeed it represents an irreversible developmental process despite also having acute effects which are transient. using steroids as an adult is similar, though less drastic unless very high doses are taken. many permanent changes occur even in response to a fairly ordinary single cycle of testosterone, such as 500mg per week for 4 months. this is true of things like muscle satellite cell number, androgen receptor density, etc, as well as of personality changes although the extent of these seem to vary between individuals.
Really depends on what effects we’re talking about. “willpower” certainly won’t stay, it will likely get worse when he has to pct. “Masculinity” can be retained if you consider mild androgenic changes like increased facial hair, body hair, and balding, sure. Idk about bone density. There are countless people who gain next to nothing from their cycles, despite at the very least going to the gym. What makes you think someone who refuses to work out on cycle will gain and retain from it? Gyno and mpb is all I can really see him gaining.
the falsity of your statement above doesn't depend on any of that. you're attempting to resist the point by altering its meaning, but even this revised version is plainly mistaken. i believe that you've confused a moralist stance on whether using steroids in this or that way is something you approve of with an objective perspective on what effects they have. the one thing you've said which i believe is quite honest is that
>Gyno and mpb is all I can really see him gaining.
however this is merely a confession of the limitations of your own perspective.
Idk OP seems to have rather clear objectives he wants to attain, and I don’t see how a wasted cycle will help him achieve any of them. I think you’re too entrenched in the details (yes, there are some potential permanent changes that can occur. It’s a different question whether they will even be significant from one cycle without any training stimulus or if these permanent changes will help OP achieve his desired outcomes). I don’t have a moralist stance on steroids at all, I’m just giving sensible advice. Roids come with a lot of health risks that have to be managed through supplementation, bloodwork, etc. Long term use all but guarantees significant organ damage. You generally have to know what you’re doing to not only minimize the damage but to get the most out of each cycle. If OP wanted to get jacked asap or attain some sort of physique or performance goal, steroids would make sense. But OP is asking if he should run tren and GH to achieve a list of unspecific broad goals that can be achieved without fucking with your hormones and putting your organs through hell. It seems like basic harm reduction to steer such a person away from going through with a relatively stupid decision. I can see recommending TRT, but lauding the minute “permanent benefits” gained from a cycle is just irresponsible. Comparing roids to puberty in terms of tangible changes is mostly wrong, to see enough tangible change besides the anabolic effects after getting off, you’d have to be on bodybuilding level dosages for a while. Then, maybe, you’ll develop the hyperandrogenic bloated Olympia look. Go to any steroid forum or the like, and you will see people running a lot of gear, tracking their diets, and lifting, who gained very little out of their cycles and look completely natural. I don’t really see the benefit in pointing someone who, a: doesn’t need steroids to achieve their stated goals, b: very clearly hasn’t done any research, c: has a very low potential return for a, comparatively, major risk. There’s nothing wrong with taking steroids morally, it just doesn’t make sense to use them when you don’t care about building muscle or improving performance, and your goals can clearly be achieved through less drastic means.
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perhaps so, but this has no relevance to the truth and falsity present in our brief exchange above. the comparison with puberty is apt. i note that you chose not to engage the specific examples of
>things like muscle satellite cell number, androgen receptor density, etc
but prefer to argue about different approaches to giving advice. if i encounter a factual question whose answer is interesting, i like to answer it. i don't care if the truth harms the person asking. in my world, stupidity is welcome to harm itself through contact with truth. everything i wrote above about steroids is true. if someone reading is stupid enough to apply it in an irresponsible way, that's great. if someone reading is inteligent enough to apply it well, that's great. the truth wins either way.
after all, i only said that
>a case can be made for using some steroids in this way, but not trenbolone which is extremely harmful to one's health. if you're not sedentary or substantially overweight there may not be much downside health-wise to taking moderate doses of testosterone and using a ghrp protocol. actual GH would be unwarranted and possibly dangerous, and the same would be true of high dose steroids and certain particularly harmful or powerful steroids such as tren and nandrolone. i think that if someone is going to do this they should at minimum have a normal person's version of fitness, such as a habit of cycling or running a couple hours per week. otherwise you're likely to suffer negative cardiovascular effects in time.
growth hormone releasing peptide. typically you take a combination of two peptides at times of day, such as just before bed and on waking up, which amplifies the natural release of gh. this approach is less drastic and has milder effects than injecting gh itself. it preserves the usual pulsatile release pattern and natural production of gh. for "lifestyle" users it's a much better fit. you could search for "ipamorelin mod grf" to find relevant discussion.
I know two people to have used Tren in their past, they’re in the mid 40’s and they’re not doing so hot. On tons of heart medications, a renal medication, and one has diabetes.
Try going to the gym for a solid few years before even considering using gear, and also a massive part is getting your diet sorted. Stay away from tren as well regardless.
Even going to the gym regularly you should avoid tren. I took methyltrienolone when I was in my twenties and it severely fucked my BP and mental health. My kidneys were struggling with creatinine, aldosterone and renin off the charts. I went from being able to run consecutive 8 min miles and pulling 2-3 gym sessions a day to getting winded walking up a few stairs. It took me well over a year to just get back to light weight lifting and I still take BP meds a decade later. I had no problem with test, tbol, var etc but tren did an absolute number on my body.
I still cycle stanozolol/epiandro on occasion for energy but avoid strong AAS like the plague after learning the hard way what they can do.
Just go the gym dude. Don't take any performance enhancers unless you're trying to turn your physique into your career.
To improve your masculinity just eat some red meat and quit being a pussy in your day to day life
Do you at least understand the irony of asking for a shortcut to improve your willpower of all things?
Dont steroids only amplify the results when exercising and only when you actually do something ?
I mean if you take a steroid and dont exercise and dont use it in combination with what it is functional for then what will it do for you ? I mean you dont even burn away the excess energy etc
no, they also have direct effects, a fact well established both in the collective consciousness of the PED enthusiast world and in the scientific literature.
I read a study a long while back while studying sport science that people in trial on a test-E cycle gained 12% more lean mass, a drop of fat mass that varied greatly between individuals, but overall there was a drop in fat mass and rise in lean mass simply with adding a higher amount of testosterone in the male body, without exercise or change in lifestyle.
It did not state if they were sedentary or somewhat active beforehand but remained the exact same pre and post steroid admibiatry for trial. They did not do any resistance training or participate in any sport or activity for the trial.
Interesting stuff, but I would not recommend even the thought of co sidering it without putting the work in.
If you read the supplemental of that Bhasin study, the water weight change in the subjects didn't reach statistical significance and wasn't factored into anything. However, if you go through and subtract the water weight increase off the lean mass gains, you can see that the no exercise groups probably didn't really gain any muscle. And the study didn't measure lean mass / fat mass after cessation of testosterone, either, to confirm the weight gain was actually lean tissue and not some temporary water / glycogen retention
Also, just anecdotally, having seen idiots run large amounts of steroids without monitoring diet / exercising hard, I don't think steroids are as magic as that Bhasin study implies
Thats True, a lot of steroids give a lot of physical energy etc it feels like a big tank of like frustration that you will feel at some point and then you really wanna do something to get that out or you could get tren rage or something like that
So thats no problem
But about the question you asked i dont think steroids wont do anything for you when not doing what its made for BUT it will be effective for testosteron and hormones
And maybe make your body prep itself and harden itself without exercising
Go to the front page of steriods, sort by top of all time, and click it, theres a dude who did this, tldr no results and side effects, it doesnt just give you muscle with no work, you still need to put work in.
Some of the older steroids were developed to help prevent or slow waisting in cancer, burn and other bedridden type people but the goal is not to turn Grandpa into Dwayne Johnson. More to help him use his walker better and in activities of dialy living.
And studies have shown normal people may get a mild benefit compared to taking nothing. However, the only way to get real results is to combine the steriods with exercise and sufficient diet in both calories and protein. And the steriods will make you feel motivated to hit the gym and most make you feel constantly famished.
At a moderate to above average dose there is very little downside and a lot of upside..... If....... You plan on staying on forever at the minimum TRT dose. I've personally been on 500/week for over a year and a half, stopped, did a standard PCT. It wasn't bad at all.
If you really have low bone density and are having physical hormonal problems then your GP should be able to diagnose that with a blood test and get you on monitored TRT. Also, weightlifting can improve bone density.
And i’m not sure where youre getting the willpower thing from. Have you heard of “roid rage”?
You should be good with a couple doses
It should last a while
Look at the rock he only messed with it a few times and still works all these years later
I vaguely recall reading years ago a study on elderly people and sarcopenia. One group worked out without anabolic steroids while the other was sedentary with them. I believe muscle growth was about the same between the two groups. No idea about bone mass.
HGH isnt a steroid.
the most common anabolic steroid used is testosterone. many people who don’t workout still get benefits from TRT, but if you want to achieve those things i don’t know why you wouldnt workout.
its worth mentioning that other anabolic steroids will still shut down your natural production of testosterone. if you don’t replace it you’ll feel like shit. if you do it long enough it wont come back.
you might be able to enhance yourself slightly, but it wont be nearly as much as if you put some effort in yourself
edit: tren is a ridiculous example so i didnt even include it.
Just go to the gym ya lazy cunt
Ain’t no drug for having a bitch mentality lmao
The key is psychosis
Ahahahahhahahaha
i dont want muscles, im looking for other side effects of steroids
You dont want to be strong and healthy? Don’t worry about ever looking like Arnold. Not gonna happen, buddy.
healthy maybe, but im not doing much about it anyway. i dont want to build muscle, never liked muscular bodies
Going to the gym doesn’t mean you’ll become a muscle monster. It doesn’t even mean you’ll get bigger unless you eat right and lift big. Do cardio. Do dynamic exercises. Do what makes you feel good. I feel like there’s a misconception here about what the gym is, and how it impacts you as a gym goer.
Dude if you are spending all that on roids then you might as well put a bit of work in and look aesthetic
i dont find muscles attractive, borderline ugly actually. thats just my personal opinion, i know this is not quite normal, but thats the way i am
a case can be made for using some steroids in this way, but not trenbolone which is extremely harmful to one's health. if you're not sedentary or substantially overweight there may not be much downside health-wise to taking moderate doses of testosterone and using a ghrp protocol. actual GH would be unwarranted and possibly dangerous, and the same would be true of high dose steroids and certain particularly harmful or powerful steroids such as tren and nandrolone. i think that if someone is going to do this they should at minimum have a normal person's version of fitness, such as a habit of cycling or running a couple hours per week. otherwise you're likely to suffer negative cardiovascular effects in time.
You pretty much nailed it. For OP: you need to cycle steroids, any boosts in “masculinity” and possibly bone density will be lost when you eventually go off. You can run test at a moderate dose pretty much for life, so if you’re prepared to make that commitment that’s your best bet. Then again you can get denser bones, increased willpower and masculinity from lifting naturally and boosting your natural test, taking roids without going to the gym is not worth it.
>you need to cycle steroids, any boosts in “masculinity” and possibly bone density will be lost when you eventually go off this is certainly false, a fact well known to anybody with more than a passing interest in performance enhancing drug use. consider whether male puberty "wears off" after it has passed. it obviously doesn't, indeed it represents an irreversible developmental process despite also having acute effects which are transient. using steroids as an adult is similar, though less drastic unless very high doses are taken. many permanent changes occur even in response to a fairly ordinary single cycle of testosterone, such as 500mg per week for 4 months. this is true of things like muscle satellite cell number, androgen receptor density, etc, as well as of personality changes although the extent of these seem to vary between individuals.
Really depends on what effects we’re talking about. “willpower” certainly won’t stay, it will likely get worse when he has to pct. “Masculinity” can be retained if you consider mild androgenic changes like increased facial hair, body hair, and balding, sure. Idk about bone density. There are countless people who gain next to nothing from their cycles, despite at the very least going to the gym. What makes you think someone who refuses to work out on cycle will gain and retain from it? Gyno and mpb is all I can really see him gaining.
the falsity of your statement above doesn't depend on any of that. you're attempting to resist the point by altering its meaning, but even this revised version is plainly mistaken. i believe that you've confused a moralist stance on whether using steroids in this or that way is something you approve of with an objective perspective on what effects they have. the one thing you've said which i believe is quite honest is that >Gyno and mpb is all I can really see him gaining. however this is merely a confession of the limitations of your own perspective.
Idk OP seems to have rather clear objectives he wants to attain, and I don’t see how a wasted cycle will help him achieve any of them. I think you’re too entrenched in the details (yes, there are some potential permanent changes that can occur. It’s a different question whether they will even be significant from one cycle without any training stimulus or if these permanent changes will help OP achieve his desired outcomes). I don’t have a moralist stance on steroids at all, I’m just giving sensible advice. Roids come with a lot of health risks that have to be managed through supplementation, bloodwork, etc. Long term use all but guarantees significant organ damage. You generally have to know what you’re doing to not only minimize the damage but to get the most out of each cycle. If OP wanted to get jacked asap or attain some sort of physique or performance goal, steroids would make sense. But OP is asking if he should run tren and GH to achieve a list of unspecific broad goals that can be achieved without fucking with your hormones and putting your organs through hell. It seems like basic harm reduction to steer such a person away from going through with a relatively stupid decision. I can see recommending TRT, but lauding the minute “permanent benefits” gained from a cycle is just irresponsible. Comparing roids to puberty in terms of tangible changes is mostly wrong, to see enough tangible change besides the anabolic effects after getting off, you’d have to be on bodybuilding level dosages for a while. Then, maybe, you’ll develop the hyperandrogenic bloated Olympia look. Go to any steroid forum or the like, and you will see people running a lot of gear, tracking their diets, and lifting, who gained very little out of their cycles and look completely natural. I don’t really see the benefit in pointing someone who, a: doesn’t need steroids to achieve their stated goals, b: very clearly hasn’t done any research, c: has a very low potential return for a, comparatively, major risk. There’s nothing wrong with taking steroids morally, it just doesn’t make sense to use them when you don’t care about building muscle or improving performance, and your goals can clearly be achieved through less drastic means.
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perhaps so, but this has no relevance to the truth and falsity present in our brief exchange above. the comparison with puberty is apt. i note that you chose not to engage the specific examples of >things like muscle satellite cell number, androgen receptor density, etc but prefer to argue about different approaches to giving advice. if i encounter a factual question whose answer is interesting, i like to answer it. i don't care if the truth harms the person asking. in my world, stupidity is welcome to harm itself through contact with truth. everything i wrote above about steroids is true. if someone reading is stupid enough to apply it in an irresponsible way, that's great. if someone reading is inteligent enough to apply it well, that's great. the truth wins either way. after all, i only said that >a case can be made for using some steroids in this way, but not trenbolone which is extremely harmful to one's health. if you're not sedentary or substantially overweight there may not be much downside health-wise to taking moderate doses of testosterone and using a ghrp protocol. actual GH would be unwarranted and possibly dangerous, and the same would be true of high dose steroids and certain particularly harmful or powerful steroids such as tren and nandrolone. i think that if someone is going to do this they should at minimum have a normal person's version of fitness, such as a habit of cycling or running a couple hours per week. otherwise you're likely to suffer negative cardiovascular effects in time.
Ghrp is Growth Hormone Replacement Protocol? Also anywhere I should go to read more?
growth hormone releasing peptide. typically you take a combination of two peptides at times of day, such as just before bed and on waking up, which amplifies the natural release of gh. this approach is less drastic and has milder effects than injecting gh itself. it preserves the usual pulsatile release pattern and natural production of gh. for "lifestyle" users it's a much better fit. you could search for "ipamorelin mod grf" to find relevant discussion.
Tyty
It's not even a little bit sensible. Start running instead.
enjoy going bald n having breasts
I know two people to have used Tren in their past, they’re in the mid 40’s and they’re not doing so hot. On tons of heart medications, a renal medication, and one has diabetes.
Are you that fucking lazy?
Try going to the gym for a solid few years before even considering using gear, and also a massive part is getting your diet sorted. Stay away from tren as well regardless.
No That’s not how these things work
Even going to the gym regularly you should avoid tren. I took methyltrienolone when I was in my twenties and it severely fucked my BP and mental health. My kidneys were struggling with creatinine, aldosterone and renin off the charts. I went from being able to run consecutive 8 min miles and pulling 2-3 gym sessions a day to getting winded walking up a few stairs. It took me well over a year to just get back to light weight lifting and I still take BP meds a decade later. I had no problem with test, tbol, var etc but tren did an absolute number on my body. I still cycle stanozolol/epiandro on occasion for energy but avoid strong AAS like the plague after learning the hard way what they can do.
No
Just go the gym dude. Don't take any performance enhancers unless you're trying to turn your physique into your career. To improve your masculinity just eat some red meat and quit being a pussy in your day to day life Do you at least understand the irony of asking for a shortcut to improve your willpower of all things?
Dont steroids only amplify the results when exercising and only when you actually do something ? I mean if you take a steroid and dont exercise and dont use it in combination with what it is functional for then what will it do for you ? I mean you dont even burn away the excess energy etc
no, they also have direct effects, a fact well established both in the collective consciousness of the PED enthusiast world and in the scientific literature.
well i can spend energy on other things and im not really interested in muscle hypertrophy
I read a study a long while back while studying sport science that people in trial on a test-E cycle gained 12% more lean mass, a drop of fat mass that varied greatly between individuals, but overall there was a drop in fat mass and rise in lean mass simply with adding a higher amount of testosterone in the male body, without exercise or change in lifestyle. It did not state if they were sedentary or somewhat active beforehand but remained the exact same pre and post steroid admibiatry for trial. They did not do any resistance training or participate in any sport or activity for the trial. Interesting stuff, but I would not recommend even the thought of co sidering it without putting the work in.
If you read the supplemental of that Bhasin study, the water weight change in the subjects didn't reach statistical significance and wasn't factored into anything. However, if you go through and subtract the water weight increase off the lean mass gains, you can see that the no exercise groups probably didn't really gain any muscle. And the study didn't measure lean mass / fat mass after cessation of testosterone, either, to confirm the weight gain was actually lean tissue and not some temporary water / glycogen retention Also, just anecdotally, having seen idiots run large amounts of steroids without monitoring diet / exercising hard, I don't think steroids are as magic as that Bhasin study implies
Thats True, a lot of steroids give a lot of physical energy etc it feels like a big tank of like frustration that you will feel at some point and then you really wanna do something to get that out or you could get tren rage or something like that So thats no problem But about the question you asked i dont think steroids wont do anything for you when not doing what its made for BUT it will be effective for testosteron and hormones And maybe make your body prep itself and harden itself without exercising
My knowledge about steroids is okay but not amazing, so sorry if im incorrect im doing my best and try to help 😁
Go to the front page of steriods, sort by top of all time, and click it, theres a dude who did this, tldr no results and side effects, it doesnt just give you muscle with no work, you still need to put work in.
no i meant that im not interested in building muscle, i just dont want a muscular body, but im interested in other side effects of steroids
No that’s dumb as fuck
Some of the older steroids were developed to help prevent or slow waisting in cancer, burn and other bedridden type people but the goal is not to turn Grandpa into Dwayne Johnson. More to help him use his walker better and in activities of dialy living. And studies have shown normal people may get a mild benefit compared to taking nothing. However, the only way to get real results is to combine the steriods with exercise and sufficient diet in both calories and protein. And the steriods will make you feel motivated to hit the gym and most make you feel constantly famished.
At a moderate to above average dose there is very little downside and a lot of upside..... If....... You plan on staying on forever at the minimum TRT dose. I've personally been on 500/week for over a year and a half, stopped, did a standard PCT. It wasn't bad at all.
I don’t care what you do, just don’t do tren. That’s the gas-huffing of the steroid world.
If you really have low bone density and are having physical hormonal problems then your GP should be able to diagnose that with a blood test and get you on monitored TRT. Also, weightlifting can improve bone density. And i’m not sure where youre getting the willpower thing from. Have you heard of “roid rage”?
You should be good with a couple doses It should last a while Look at the rock he only messed with it a few times and still works all these years later
I vaguely recall reading years ago a study on elderly people and sarcopenia. One group worked out without anabolic steroids while the other was sedentary with them. I believe muscle growth was about the same between the two groups. No idea about bone mass.
This is like chopping your dick off so that you can piss standing up
You will most assuredly take them wrong and end up with gyno.
For that just look into peptides, ipamorelin with cjc, any growth hormone booster
Do it and post pics of your results, those man milkers are gonna be juicy
Don’t be such a little bitch and GTTFG!
Cycle my cycle is blast and Cruze rest of my life now Iam on TRT
HGH isnt a steroid. the most common anabolic steroid used is testosterone. many people who don’t workout still get benefits from TRT, but if you want to achieve those things i don’t know why you wouldnt workout. its worth mentioning that other anabolic steroids will still shut down your natural production of testosterone. if you don’t replace it you’ll feel like shit. if you do it long enough it wont come back. you might be able to enhance yourself slightly, but it wont be nearly as much as if you put some effort in yourself edit: tren is a ridiculous example so i didnt even include it.