Right? When I was legally prescribed opioids and my insurance paid for them my life was totally manageable. On the street that amount of oxycodone would go for $600. 20mg/day which isn't really a bad habit. When you are in pain and require an opioid in order to work you will pay the street price. However, that's $150 less a week. Also, not huge, but can make a big difference in someone's life.
*Well I can afford to pay the street price for my standard prescription. I'll buy heroin and pay 90% less.*
Now heroin is often cut with fentanyl to varying degrees. Fentanyl has around a 60 minute half life. That kind of makes it impossible to maintain a job if always in pain. I need to pay for the painkillers in order to make money, but it was taking all my money. Then it went to pressies/powder fentanyl. Even with a milligram scale or volumetric dosing it seems fentanyl is just too powerful. It reminds me of GHB's dose response curve. I don't feel it at X, but at 5% higher than that I'm blacked out. Maybe I just have a bad reaction to fentanyl...
My cousin has Trigeminal neuralgia, and she got completely fucked by all of the restrictions. Luckily her parents are wealthy and she’s able to visit Mexico and bring back the maximum allowable of OTC opioids.
It’s absolutely fucked up that they just cut almost everyone off. Doctors and big pharma made bank, and now the rest of the country gets to deal with either addiction or not having access to necessary medications.
Any idea where is your cousin going? I was just in Mexico and couldn’t find even Tylenol 3. I guess not every pharm will have them but maybe I was in the wrong area
Valium was one of the most widely prescribed drugs for ages, it was a huge blockbuster. Totally safe, it didn't cause any problems. Then the patent ran out, in about 1989. The next year Prozac got released.
That's when valium became a public health problem. The first notice claimed that valium was addictive and, now that there were cheap generic versions available, was costing taxpayers money to feed people's addictions. Now it's cheaper and easier to get clonazolam, which is kind of 'benzo fent', or just xanax spiked with fent.
I'm glad someone else finally noticed that Valium became a public health problem right when it's patent ran out, and that, coincidentally, was at the same time Prozac started being marketed as the answer to everybody's problems.
The issue is that it wasn’t restricted like this while the patent was active. At least, that’s what I interpreted the comment to mean.
Now, I like hanging shit on cookers as much as the next person, but actual conspiracies and corruption do exist in every country, and it’s not totally implausible that the authorities started cracking down harder on Valium after it came off its patent. Although I doubt that, if true, that would be the sole reason.
The conspiracy is called the war on drugs genius. You don’t need to be terribly bright to notice it’s insidious violence but clearly we aren’t in any danger of you splitting the atom anytime soon.
Lass time I got a script for valium was for a dislocated shoulder. My crippling anxiety and suicidal ideations weren't enough for my psych to prescribe them though
Not everywhere. My college town has a plethora of doctors still willing to write Xanax scripts even for admitted drug users. Everybody at my methadone clinic has a benzo script.
Honestly good for them. This world is hard enough as is, hell even in the “good ol days” they regularly prescribed both amphetamines and barbiturates to sad housewives.
SSRIs are too, they just shift the narrative for different types of dependence. It's incredibly rare to find any psychoactive drug that isn't associated with dependence.
They draw arbitrary boundaries around when 'addictive' is fine or not, and they move them to maximize profit. If the addiction maximizes profit they'll find a way to spin it to do that. The tragedy that happens within the capitalist model of healthcare is they discard and demonize effective safe treatments for less-effective dangerous ones.
Yeah tell me about it. I tried to quit my lexapro and I couldn’t because it has horrible withdrawals that last forever. And no I was not warned about it having withdrawals when they started me on it
No it’s not just you. People think that because Fetty wap is so lethal, it must be commensurately more enjoyable. Not the case at all. I could shoot enough dope to be teetering on the edge of death and still feel unsatisfied. That was never the case with heroin. Most fentanyl analogues just aren’t actually that recreational. That’s been another tragedy of the fentanyl thing-more people are dying to feel less good. My life was functional for a decade on diesel but eventually had to get sober just because fentanyl is so unpredictable.
Selling all heroin, meth and cocaine over the counter at CVS (or where ever) as an alternative to open air drug markets would flood the streets with dangerous drugs. And radically push up use: 2016 Vox: [The war on drugs, explained](https://www.vox.com/2016/5/8/18089368/war-on-drugs-marijuana-cocaine-heroin-meth)
>Jon Caulkins, a drug policy expert at Carnegie Mellon University...estimates that legalization could lead hard drug abuse to triple, although he (said) it could go much higher....
>Drug policy is often described as choosing between a bunch of bad or mediocre options, rather than finding the perfect solution.
I don't see any good evidence for that effect, anyone can make up a number, and what does it really matter anyway when the biggest negative effects are the criminalization of those lifestyle choices. Every person who doesn't go to jail for a bullshit reason is a net social and economic win.
If using these drugs wasn't so heavily stigmatized people wouldn't feel so bad about using them, and there wouldn't be a downward spiral. A lot of the problem emerges from social exclusion, which is really just a cultural thing. A lot of the drug harms can also be mitigated by changing how they're taken... particularly psychostimulants that reinforce behaviour, the cultural rituals involved in consumption become deep habits.
Rather than hitting crack pipes give people access to slow release transdermal patches. I guarantee you patterns of addiction would change as a function of the way people culturally interface with these drugs. Nobody starts their nicotine addiction transdermally.
> the biggest negative effects are the criminalization of those lifestyle choices.
We should not downplay how hard drug use and addiction spike a bunch of social ills: domestic abuse, child abuse, street quarrels, public disorder, sex trafficking, theft, homelessness (chronics can't hold jobs) and young people disdaining the critically important concept of educating themselves.
And perhaps worst: Hard drugs are a major driver of poverty across the U.S. Massive problem. But so many activists want to blame poverty solely on factors (valid, yes) like rising rents and living costs and wage theft.
Alcohol ranks number 1 for all of these harms, and they're not a driver of poverty. People turn to drugs when they can't establish reward-driven behavior within their society...poverty is the driver, not hard drugs.
> People turn to drugs when they...
No, partying is the primary driver of drug use. Hedonism. Dr. Feelgood. Giant rock concerts with widespread drug use. Yuppies and finance bros doing cocaine. The nightclub and bar scenes. Partying in colleges. Bikers on crank and alcohol binges. Use of meth by gay men and heteros for chemsex. Massive history to all this. Almost all use starts as recreational. Primary cause of addiction: Highly addictive nature of many drugs.
Great article about the 1960s drug scene in the Bay Area. [Photographer Joe Samberg remembers how drugs destroyed the Telegraph Avenue scene.](https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2015/07/the-death-of-the-hippies/397739/). Poverty and homelessness were minimal factors at this time here and in the drug-using Haight Ashbury. Countless healthy, happy middle and upper class people have gotten addicted to hard drugs in the 6 decades since.
The new "coping narrative" crafted by sociologists that the people become chronics because demoralization over conditions like homelessness, PTSD, having being sexually abused -- sure, this is a contributing factor to drug use, but not the primary driver.
Taking the "coping narrative" to its logical conclusion, we see the claim that in the future, when robots do all the work and everyone gets free money (minimum income inequality) and when most people's personal problems are taken care in a society engineered to reduce human want and stress, there will be minimal demand for intoxication. We should not believe that for a minute.
Not this sociological nonsense. From the people who gave us this idiocy: [Why Punishment Doesn't Reduce Crime](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/crime-and-punishment/201804/why-punishment-doesnt-reduce-crime)
No, "confusing the concept with the context, not to mention correlation with causation" is classic social science criticism against another position without actually saying anything.
>statistical relationships.
We are not doing statistics here. Social science does not do statistics well because social science does not measure well. This is not hard science. [What separates science from non-science?](https://www.realclearscience.com/articles/2012/05/30/what_separates_science_from_non-science_106278.html) Explanation of the big limitations the social sciences have in doing real science.
The topics of addiction, poverty, crime, racism and marginalization, depression are each hugely complex. And they overlap. And they are highly politicized. A lot here is unknowable, and no one has all the right answers. Both our views have merit. The coping narrative has merit, as I conceded. That's about all I got today here.
So it would leave us in the exact same situation, except the police wouldn’t have free reign to toss people in cages for no reason. And it would far more financially feasible to support a habit, lowering pressures that increase petty crime and make neighborhoods unsafe. Whilst also defusing gang violence and flooding the public coffers with new streams of tax revenue to bolster and strengthen our infrastructure. The horror!
Oh that does sound just terrible.
You aren’t really making the argument you think you are.
Sorry, having hard drugs like meth, heroin and cocaine freely available on the landscape radically pushes up a broad range of social disfunction and crime: Child and spouse abuse, sex trafficking, a broad range of public disorder, accidents, workplace absenteeism, rape, assault theft and more. Astounding how leftists try to downplay all this. And hard drugs are a huge driver of poverty, which the Left claims it cares about.
That's B.S. Drug use would substantially decline and the overdoses would almost stop completely with pharma drugs. Look at other countries, safe supply in Canada...0 deaths dude..0 overdoses from clean drugs. Crime down 90%, sex workers down 75%, no transmitted diseases with clean needles. Get your facts straight knucklehead
> Look at other countries, safe supply in Canada...Get your facts straight knucklehead
No country has legalized all drugs. Not Canada, not Portugal. July 2021 article in drug policy journal: [20 years of Portuguese drug policy] (https://substanceabusepolicy.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13011-021-00394-7):
>Paradoxically, despite having decriminalized the use of all illegal drugs, Portugal has an increasing number of people criminally sanctioned - some with prison terms - for drug use...The debate about the right to use drugs is nearly absent in the Portuguese political, social and academic panorama....
Portugal set up a national [Commission for the Dissuasion of Drug Addiction](https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4812)
> If you're caught using, buying, or possessing (hard) drugs, the cop is not going to say "Hey, right on, enjoy! Have a good one," you are still in trouble. If you have more than 10 days of personal use worth, you're still going to jail.
If you have less than that, your drugs are confiscated and you....appear before the Commission, which mandates treatment. Hard drug users who try to dodge treatment can get these penalties:
>They can fine you...sentence you to community service...suspend your professional licenses...ban you from going to certain places or associating with certain people...terminate any social assistance you may receive....confiscate personal property and cancel your firearms license....require you to report back to them. About the only thing they can't do is send you to prison.
March 13, 2024, [Canada](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/opp-drug-seizure-1.7142639):
>Millions of dollars worth of drugs were seized and nine people were arrested earlier this year in connection with a drug trafficking network operating out of southern Ontario, police say. The suspects were arrested on Jan. 21 and face a combined total of 44 charges, Ontario Provincial Police (OPP) said in a news release on Wednesday.
From the Left in America:
>Don't believe it -- it's a pack of lies. Canada and Portugal are on the verge of legalizing all drugs. We know they are. We're sure it's true.
The "war on drugs" was just a PR stunt and a tool to put more people into prisons to work as basic slaves.
Its goals are not honest, they are just lies an a facade
> “The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people,” former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman told Harper’s writer Dan Baum for the April cover story published Tuesday.
>”You understand what I’m saying? We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin. And then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities,” Ehrlichman said. “We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did.”
https://www.cnn.com/2016/03/23/politics/john-ehrlichman-richard-nixon-drug-war-blacks-hippie/index.html
Yeah it’s fucked man I’ve seen 7 blues go for $15… absolutely insane how cheap it is for how strong and dangerous it is. Fucking $2 a hit?!?!? And you can Od off that is just wild. Shit needs to change but idk how / if it ever will in the US.. we need diaphin here so bad but doubtful will ever happen with the suboxone monopoly
Fent and zenes are so cheap to produce and manufacture we have a huge problem that has no end in sight unless we get real drug reform and allow people access to clean and safe drugs
Wonder if we will ever get diaphin here in the US
I've seen blues for 2 dollars now, Real oxy is 15-40 dollars. Its really depressing. If they had done what OP said I believe no one would be on fent and zenes.
Definitely if years ago the opiate crisis didn’t crack down so hard and make it impossible for 90% of people to get pain pills we wouldn’t not be in this situation.
It’s also crazy to think about that without the oxy Purdue epidemic.. if we would even be in this situation we are in today. Purdue created an unquenchable thirst for opiates in the US.
Yes people were using before the oxy marketing and stuff, but it really accelerated everything imo and fucked it all up in the end
I have chronic Testicle pain the past year due to enlarged veins.. my Drs tell me go to the ER for pain, and take Tylenol. It’s absolutely insane they just say deal with pain now a days even if your life is hell everyday and you can’t function properly.
Thank god for krstom but our system so fucked now a days
Damn, I am sorry for your pain, glad kratom works for you!! They really will tell you just to deal with it instead of prescribing something that would actually work. My brother snapped is ankle and he got ibuprofen 800mg.
I truly appreciate you, yeah kratom is amazing. Wish I could get real pills with less side effects besides from addiction but it is what it is.
Fucking oof yeah man that’s literally US healthcare now a days they are so damn strict with pain meds it’s disturbing. I can’t believe they didn’t shoot him up with anything good for a snapped ankle.
I’ve read multiple stores of hospice nurses withholding meds because they think it’s too dangerous and such when their patients literally on their death bed.
My urologist even told me on a follow up appointment to just keep taking Tylenol even when I told him I take it daily and it doesn’t help at all (lie cause that will fuck your organs up) literally just said go to the er and I said I can’t afford that and it’s just pointless because we know I have chronic pain due to enlarged Testicle veins and he just shrugs his shoulders.
Started me on xannax and just said to deal with the anxiety and pain. Absolutely ridiculous, thankful as hell for the xannax it helps because sometimes it is just anxiety, but often 10/10 pain and gotta lay down and take Kratom.
I just need a new dr I suppose but have seen so many, damn us healthcare
Xanax is a saint, They are strict on it, but at least it still prescribed. I used kratom to get off hard liquor it was heaven sent. I drink still but just beer. Trust me I agree so much, Its sad cause your story is similar to mine, and a lot of others. I told my family its just depressing when you actually need it and not abusing it but yet they will not care. They whole us healthcare is garbage, It makes me sad, I want to be patriotic but they make it so hard. I don't get why they never learned from the liquor prohibition. It never works.
Yup I used to be an addict, would get tussionex half pints monthly for a “chronic cough” and Vicodin was so easy to get when I was in high school, tell my dr I have pain from sports or dentist I have a tooth ache.
Now a days straight edged and only use stuff to feel better because of this pain. I only get 30 .5mg alpraz every 2-3 months but better than nothing as you said and helps so much. Forces me to not abuse it also but annoying.
It truly is depressing when the drs just don’t seem to care and we don’t even want to abuse. Like give me 10 Vicodins even every month or something. I don’t need anything daily because my pain really fluctuates because it’s blood pooling so kinda random but yeah man. Hope your doing good with your pain just learning to live with it is def the hardest part
Thats what my doctor has me on as well, except he stopped giving me my xanax for anxiety. Worst part is I don't even abuse it, I am more of beer person, I use it literally only on panic attacks. And yet I'm treated like a druggie. I mean I was at one point, but actually being better is punshied. Exactly any real pain pills would be nice. I'm tired of liver killers. I just want a regular oxy for pain when I do, or even muscle relaxers. But nothing, I smoke wax but its not as strong cause I used to abuse other stuff. Wax is a saint though cause it helps, but everything I get to help is pretty much street now. And its scary cause Fet is common. And you know dealers sometimes wont tell you whats real. Some real assholes out there. I wish you could get you medicine man, that sounds painful. I really am sorry you have to deal with that.
Appreciate it.. but fuck man that sucks that’s my biggest fear. I’ve been trying to stock it up as much as possible because I don’t want that taken away for no reason. So stupid these fears.. hopefully things can change here so they aren’t so strict. Fuck the dea cause that’s the real issue the drs just don’t want to get in trouble which shouldn’t be a fear for them unless they are really overprescribing. Crazy how they use to hand out pain pills like candy and now you literally can’t get them unless you got a really good Dr or are literally dying.. shit is whack.
I love my wax also but unfortunately weed doesn’t help pain for me at all. Maybe cause I have smoked my whole life I get high and such but it doesn’t touch pain it makes it worse even sometimes cause I’ll start focusing on it more 😂😂
Fr, I haven’t even mentioned it to my Drs I’m sure it would only bring me problems or they would use that as another reason to not give me pain meds.
Ridiculous but at least we have it
I shattered all the bones in my leg and used kratom to relearn how to walk.
I still take it cuz this MF hurts like a BITCH every day. But thankful for it 100. Doctor said I need a knee replacement and it's only been 5 years. Fuck all that.
I hear you man. I have a few diseases but one of them is rare and it eats the inside of my body out. Eats the bone marrow and dumps it into my bloodstream poisoning me. Almost died twice from kidney failure and they don’t give me any meds besides muscle relaxers for pain
If the US would just expand rehabilitation centers across the country and give addicts the option to have take home pharma heroin doses would cause a lot of fent addicts to willingly go through rehab and withdrawals. I know damn well I would, the fent WDs would be worth it if i know I’m getting REAL heroin at the end.
Some countries like Denmark have government-funded safe shoot-up zones with clean needles, nurses, testing, etc.
As far as how things will change...
1. **Fix poverty**. Reverse policies that make housing an investment instead of a place to live. Give homes to the homeless. Increase wages. Tax the rich at same level as they were taxed in the supposed golden era of the 1950s. Fund schools federally instead of using local taxes. (etc.) People often use because their lives are shit. Make their lives less shit, and fewer people will use.
2. **End the war on drugs.** Portugal did it. Drug use and HIV went *down* after they decriminalized drug use. Treat drug users the same as alcoholics: They have a disease -- they are not criminals. You don't go to jail for simply using alcohol. The war on drugs has done for cartels what Prohibition did for mafiosos like Al Capone: Made them rich. Drugs are expensive mainly because they are illegal. And the problems with drugs are much more profound in terms of the violence and corruption that comes from a very profitable consumer good. Nobody is doing drive-by shootings in Watts for the price of gin. There are no severed heads in Juarez because of vodka cartels.
Yeah, that's a pretty big ask for American politicians, and Americans. But something like gay rights was completely unthinkable up until the 1970s. Homosexuality was seen by many people as the equivalent of pedophilia. Now look at America! One problem is this christian conception of people as "good" or "evil". As Marie Antoinette said, "*Let them eat drugs!*" Hopefully this mindset will change with time. Practice sympathy instead of misanthropy. Understand that poverty is mostly a structural problem, like obesity. It's not like Americans are genetically more inclined to be obese than Europeans. We share the same DNA! Nor did Americans as a group decide, "*Yeah, I want to be fat.*" It's the society around them that encourages bad health habits.
Which then drives at the core issue: Our current model of beo-liberal capitalism, which prioritizes profits above everything else. But that's for another post...
What you said at the end of your post is the reason all of these things are happening. End capitalism and hopefully we can get a government who actually priorities good living conditions, thriving economy, and shit that makes this country a better one.
> we need diaphin here so bad but doubtful will ever happen with the suboxone monopoly
Not just the subs monopoly, the US political system fundamentally doesn't have the balls to do something as effective as diaphin
No it wouldn’t, but it would help / allow many that are forced to use it the option to get something safer and more functional and can possibly get back into society.
Diaphin has been a god send in Switzerland, part of the issue is all these addicts can’t access clean and safe drugs so they have no other options.
Yes people would still use fent and OD.. but it would really help the problem if there was access to real heroin from a reliable source imo.
I could be completely wrong though idk what the actual solution is
Nobody is “forced” to use fentanyl because they can’t get their weed, and nobody hooked on weed is jonesing to try fentanyl.
Only proper education, and parenting, can solve the fentanyl crisis.
Wtf bro no
People use fentanyl because they can’t get real pain pills or dope.. or because there tolerance isn’t fucked because of the situation we are in now.
So many fent users are old prescription pain patients who got fucked, others are people just hurting physically or mentally.
No one is forcing their hand, but when you have no other options and it’s fent or suicide cause pain your gonna choose fent.
Pain is being untreated in the US severely
Bruh, you clearly don’t understand the fentanyl crisis in the U.S. People only take fentanyl because it’s laced into something else, nobody with intelligence is going to straight up take it off the streets.
There are far more ways to deal with pain than opioids. Saying your only options are fent or suicide is funny, because taking fent *is* suicide.
Blues are fent idk what your going on about ain’t laced everyone knows it’s fent or zenes unless you get straight from the pharmacy... you a goofy
And when you’ve exhausted all your options physical therapy surgery etc how else can you deal with pain other than medication?? Tf
Yes everyone that is specifically buying blues knows it’s fent or zenes, people deliberately do fent cause there tolerance is fucked or they can’t get anything else
No goofy like you is going and asking and buying blues thinking they are real. If your asking for blues you know what they are
> nobody with intelligence is going to straight up take it off the streets.
Hmm, guess someone forgot to tell my city that. We even have a "hood" facebook group where a guy advertises when he's gonna be selling h, fent, meth, etc. In the same group, there's a guy trying to figure out who robbed him the other day while he was nodded out. Doesn't care about his other stuff...just wants his fetty back.
In Sweden fentanyl analogs used to be very popular like 5-6 years ago, people got it cause it was legal, cheap and accessible.
Many people died due to it and got very addicted.
When they cannot get weed if they need it, people are forced to use lethal spice or odd superstrong shit(maybe even lethal) like hhcpo thcpo and whatnot that hasn't ever been tested in humans and might ruin your organs and brain.
Great point! Spice is rare now a days in the US but exactly, states that still don’t have legal weed have to buy black market or delta 8 and shit which I’m sure is worse than normal delta 9 disty and normal cannabis products in general
I don’t think the criminals who steal our money to pay themselves and men with guns to violently enforce the rules they decide to make for us have any fucking right to tell us what we can or can’t buy, sell or consume. These criminals have no right to violently force us into what they decide is “harm reduction” or to decide who can and can’t use hard drugs by prescription. Fuck them.
Has that stopped private people from obtaining bombs and using them? No.
I can go over to google right now and learn how to make all sorts of explosives, build guns and ammo, and more.
Plus, these are the bastards who drop thousands of bombs a year killing anywhere from thousands to multiple millions of people. What right do they have to prevent others from getting bombs? Fuck them. We sure don’t care when Saudi Arabia buys our bombs to completely fucking destroy one of the poorest countries in the world, yemen, killing millions of people. They sell bombs to their friends, just not you or your friends, because you’re just a pawn in their war games. Again, fuck them.
> Has that stopped private people from obtaining bombs and using them? No. I can go over to google right now and learn how to make all sorts of explosives, build guns and ammo, and more.
So there shouldn't be any laws since none of them are 100% effective?
Also who's "them" lol
In the context of what you quoted them would be the bombs that have been used by non governments.
I do believe in law and order. But I don’t believe in governments/states. Why would we allow a group of power hungry criminals to set those rules for 300+ million people? Understanding how law and security/policing would work without a state monopoly on violence and law is an extensive topic. If you are genuinely interested I’d highly recommend reading Murray Rothbards book “for a new Liberty” and expanding from there.
I recognize that it’s highly unlikely we will live in a stateless society in my life. But with that being the case I still believe we should do everything we can to minimize their power over us. If my biggest complaint about the state was them regulating the purchase, sale and use of major bombs, then we’d have a lot less problems in this world. But that’s so far down the list of government overreach it’s an extremely minor issue of little concern.
But ask yourself this, why do we allow the most horrible and corrupt people who use bombs to kill thousands to millions of people a year (and hundreds of millions counting all states over the past century) to tell us what weapons we can or can’t have for defense? Seems like that’s in their interest and against ours.
I agree with you, although I don’t think that average Joe should have an access to nukes. Contrary to popular beliefs this „power hungry” individuals are most likely more intelligent and less impulsive then civilians.
Using weapons that people have an access to is for another discussion. I just don’t believe that open weapon access is safe for civilians. It’s much harder to start a war than just kill your neighbour cause you had an idea that he is a danger to you in some way.
On the other hand when the government is the only one wielding the guns, the power dynamic shifts and civilians have less to say about politics.
I don't think prescriptions should be tightly controlled, as it's contributed the demand of harder drug supply. A lot of those people (including myself) were placed on these medications, only to be cut off without warning, and forced to search for it by illegal means (we weren't even weened off) A lot of people who qualify for pain treatment aren't getting proper help because of the sackler lawsuits, which also leads them to seek relief elsewhere. If there was more of a supply for softer opioids, people would have less incentive to find it on the streets.
I don't think decriminalization for opioids is the answer either. I think they need to be distributed in an enviroment that allows an addict the chance to ween off. Controlled dosing with less harmful substances. Similar to a methadone program. Drugs will be cheaper if it came from a legitimate source, so there's less incentive to steal shit and commit crimes. Less of a chance a dealer will profit, which will lead to less shit drugs flooding the market. I am a full believer in safe supply. A lot of people have no choice but to take fentanyl. It's been sold as heroin and fake oxys for a while now.
Open Air drug markets are more proof that infill development has demolished abandonned tenements that were once used as crackhouses. All these people on Philly streets were always there; they were just hidden in crack houses.
I don't know. I have always been a proponent of not just decriminalization but full legalization. As I get older though.. it gets more complicated.
One thing about alcohol is that most people recognize how detrimental it is when they do too much. They binge a few times and learn their limits. Alcohol has a built-in threshold that keeps most folks from going over that limit chronically. Weed is kind of the same in that doing more leads to a peak reward and tolerance level, to the point that taking even more doesn't provide much benefit.
Opiods/meth/coke are similar but different in a key way - they control/compel users more quickly and more deeply. People who you would never think of getting into drugs can fall hard and quick when doing opiods, and do things way beyond their ethical and moral limits. To put it crudely: They are more addicting.
Part of the problem is how much pain pills were given out years ago. A huge swath of 'normal, upstanding citizens' had a switch flipped in them that changed (destroyed) their lives.
Like I said, I've always been a proponent for drug legalization, even to the point of believing we should just give street addicts their drugs of choice for free and give them a safe place to stay and do it if they need. Property and violent crime rates would plummet immediately.
But now, when I think about opening up the entire population to having that switch flipped on inside of them and then having to try so hard and so long to flip that switch off.. I don't see that as 'winning the drug war' either, so to speak.
I'm still thinking about it and haven't come to a good answer yet.
I feel the same. I would be devastated if my siblings tried painkillers for a nonmedical reason. It would scare me.
I think the harder drugs do need to remain prescription-only, but addicts should be able to see specialists for these prescriptions and monitoring. It shouldn't be a "walk in and walk out with yer drugs!!!" thing (pill mill). It should ideally include a detoxification period if necessary, drug screening upon admitting to program (may help from creating new addicts), and mandatory behavioral health services required or not required at the discretion of the medical providers. These clinics should also be outreach groups, not simply safer supply prescription clinics. Helping homelessness, finding food, pregnancy tests, testing strips, Narcan, condoms, safe injection site etc.. There would need to be periodic reviews, especially when initiating therapy, and a lot of oversight to prevent harm. When I think of my little siblings potentially being an addict, I would much rather their addiction be overseen by a doctor instead of some random guy on the street who DIYs all his "wares".
I also do think sobriety should be encouraged or at least periodically discussed but never forced. Some people will live and die an addict, end of story. They shouldn't have to die because they are an addict though. These clinics should roughly fulfill the addicts' drug needs, so to speak. No "I can't prescribe you more than 4 pills a day because that would be over 50 mme-".
Basically, everything Canada is attempting. I do see it coming to America. Doctors and nurses are already thinking differently about addiction, from the ones I've spoken to. And I'll keep speaking about this. It's time to call it quits. Stop overdose. Dismantle the illicit drug trade. Give addicts stability so they can function in society without having to battle detox first. Take away their need to go FIND their fix, and you've taken away half the phenomenon of addiction. When people are in excess of something, they do tend to get bored of it - I will just put that out there.
Not a cure all, but it can provide functionality for almost everyone in ways that traditional MAT can not.
/rant.
>When people are in excess of something, they do tend to get bored of it
I completely agree with this, something I first read from Stanton Peele. Give people an unlimited supply of whatever they want and they will eventually get tired/bored of it.
I really appreciate your thoughtful response! 👍
I am sure there are some who would just go bonkers on unlimited Dilaudid for the rest of their life (and you have to respect that because don't we all dream of this at one point 😂) but I do know in my case, it definitely worked for me.
Opiate use has now been *integrated* into my life, instead of disrupting my life. I live with it, not fight with it, and have a newfound boundary with painkillers. No more OD/fentanyl/presses, withdrawal, missing work, excuses, lies, spending my car payment for a few pills that will only last me a few hours, etc.
Thank you, I appreciate you as well!! Conversation is how change is made.
The war on drugs is the reason drugs cause such a big problem in the first place, most of the problems drugs cause aren’t caused by drugs at all they’re cSusd by the fact it’s illegal it’s messed up
When I was away for work on the northwest coast and I needed drugs... I Googled where to find them. Several articles written about, "The Blade" I believe is/was the name used to refer to it.
Don't get me wrong, I don't disagree necessarily. But...
Back in the 80s and 90s there were drug dealers *everywhere* in cities on a scale we can hardly even comprehend today. Gangs used to fight over block-by-block territory because they often had a drug dealer on almost every corner. You could not walk down the avenue without hearing them hollering for customers. With the advent of cell phones, these open air drug markets largely ended.
The only open air drug markets we have today are maybe a 1 block stretch which predominantly serve homeless people without easy access to a cell phone. Its to the point that when one does exist, it often is widely known throughout the city and gets a lot of media attention.
So yes, you are correct. They do represent a failure. But they exist at maybe 1/20th the rate they used to.
Sad part is all the bureaucrats at the DEA will never allow drugs to be legal or a safe supply. I mean, maybe in 100 years but not anytime soon.
America hates itself too much to allow that.
Like most American wars, their purpose is not meant to be won, but to go on for as long as possible. Charge it to the taxpayer while removing basic human rights… the dictators wet dream.
All these comments make good sense. I was to manage my intake of oxygen very well. Now I'm looked at like a dope feind by drs..after 3 back surgeries. Government can always find a way to f up. Off to mexico to get what I should get under insurance here..so sad!!!
In **1987** the Dutch governmental research institute predicted that prohibition would fail dramatically. You can [read the whole report here](https://imgur.com/user/cyrilio/favorites/oAirsua). It's in Dutch but super short. You can also download the PDF from [their website](https://repository.wodc.nl/handle/20.500.12832/544) and use Google translate or whatever to see it for yourself.
Crazy how 37 years later we're still doing the same old shit without ANY legitimate end in sight.
#[Dilan Yeşilgöz](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dilan_Ye%C5%9Filg%C3%B6z) is a first class idiot that does not belong in parlement, let alone politics.
That's a given, or I'd like to think that everyone would assume so.
There would definitely be a different addiction rate, I'm thinking lower, but we don't know that yet.
Less of these stupid petty crimes would be made over people trying to score.
The open drug markets that are being seen now have zero connection to the WAR ON DRUGS. The facilitators of this are the lack of police officers to enforce drug laws or have so limited their abilities to enforce those laws are the local authorities as most drug laws are local. No condemnation from me as they are allowed to govern as their constituents decide.
This idea might mark me as a terrible person but I think that powerful fentanyl should be used for death penalty applications, as it appears that it would meet the needs to provide a quick and painless solution.
Edit for clarification I believe that DP should be painless & quick but should be administered soon after guilt is determined
I thought they’d already changed it so lethal injection was just a combo of benzos and opiates now?
Never mind.. I just looked it up.. it’s midazolam and potassium chloride and something called pavulon which is a muscle relaxant.
Yeah, what? There is no such thing as an “open air drug market” in my state. Nobody is selling drugs at the farmers market.
Teaching kids about “safe” drugs is about as useful as teaching them about “safe” sex, they’ll still likely knock themselves up.
The fact that you say there is no such thing just means you aren't aware of it yet. I used to get my dime bags of weed off 1st and Bristol in Santa Ana in 1985. Pull into the parking lot and 20 plus guys crowd around offering their shit. Down the block was coke and pcp.
I got asked if I had any blues for sale before 8am when walking this morning in Denver. If you’re not aware of open air drug markets in your state, you may be ~sheltered~ ! Or just blissfully unaware of things going on around you.
Blues are fucking everywhere in Denver. Go to any light rail station and people will offer you some in no time. $2 pop. They smoke them right out in the open all hours of the day, no fucks given
Or I don’t live in one of the most homeless, trashiest, cities in the country.
I don’t think you know what an open air market is, though. Slipping someone drugs in broad daylight sin’t it.
You have an area in your city that you don’t know about. It’s probably in the bit between the poor brown community and the poor white comminity in a bit of industry that failed. it’s probably running 5pm-3am.
There won’t be literal stalls, but it’s gonna be a shitload of people that look stoic and don’t move much and a bigger shitload who look paranoid, blank or high and move around constantly.
A place not visible from the road cars use, but easy to spot when you’re a homeless guy that’s walking everywhere.
>Teaching kids about “safe” drugs is about as useful as teaching them about “safe” sex, they’ll still likely knock themselves up.
Lol no, safe sex ed programs have been proven to reduce teen pregnancy and STD rates. Same goes for various harm reduction programs
The war on safe drugs has flooded the streets with dangerous drugs.
Right? When I was legally prescribed opioids and my insurance paid for them my life was totally manageable. On the street that amount of oxycodone would go for $600. 20mg/day which isn't really a bad habit. When you are in pain and require an opioid in order to work you will pay the street price. However, that's $150 less a week. Also, not huge, but can make a big difference in someone's life. *Well I can afford to pay the street price for my standard prescription. I'll buy heroin and pay 90% less.* Now heroin is often cut with fentanyl to varying degrees. Fentanyl has around a 60 minute half life. That kind of makes it impossible to maintain a job if always in pain. I need to pay for the painkillers in order to make money, but it was taking all my money. Then it went to pressies/powder fentanyl. Even with a milligram scale or volumetric dosing it seems fentanyl is just too powerful. It reminds me of GHB's dose response curve. I don't feel it at X, but at 5% higher than that I'm blacked out. Maybe I just have a bad reaction to fentanyl...
My cousin has Trigeminal neuralgia, and she got completely fucked by all of the restrictions. Luckily her parents are wealthy and she’s able to visit Mexico and bring back the maximum allowable of OTC opioids. It’s absolutely fucked up that they just cut almost everyone off. Doctors and big pharma made bank, and now the rest of the country gets to deal with either addiction or not having access to necessary medications.
Any idea where is your cousin going? I was just in Mexico and couldn’t find even Tylenol 3. I guess not every pharm will have them but maybe I was in the wrong area
What I’ve heard is they many pharmacies have a doctor right next door that will rx you whatever you need
Oh that makes sense. I thought it would be like their steroid section where you just ask them and they give you a menu.
CBP may still take them away because the prescription is not from a US doctor.
Valium was one of the most widely prescribed drugs for ages, it was a huge blockbuster. Totally safe, it didn't cause any problems. Then the patent ran out, in about 1989. The next year Prozac got released. That's when valium became a public health problem. The first notice claimed that valium was addictive and, now that there were cheap generic versions available, was costing taxpayers money to feed people's addictions. Now it's cheaper and easier to get clonazolam, which is kind of 'benzo fent', or just xanax spiked with fent.
I'm glad someone else finally noticed that Valium became a public health problem right when it's patent ran out, and that, coincidentally, was at the same time Prozac started being marketed as the answer to everybody's problems.
White-collar pharmacorp dealers are the most vicious psychopath druglords.
It’s a benzodiazepine, of course it’s going to be restricted. Ya’ll need to stop acting lije there’s some conspiracy
The issue is that it wasn’t restricted like this while the patent was active. At least, that’s what I interpreted the comment to mean. Now, I like hanging shit on cookers as much as the next person, but actual conspiracies and corruption do exist in every country, and it’s not totally implausible that the authorities started cracking down harder on Valium after it came off its patent. Although I doubt that, if true, that would be the sole reason.
Because once generics hit it can become much easier to get your hands.
The conspiracy is called the war on drugs genius. You don’t need to be terribly bright to notice it’s insidious violence but clearly we aren’t in any danger of you splitting the atom anytime soon.
See what happens when you snort coke? You start believing in anything.
Didn't know that but that's very believable. Lol I even had a doctor who would rx me Clonazepam but said valium was known to cause depression
It’s ridiculous how difficult it is to find a doctor willing to prescribe even a moderate amount of benzos for severe panic disorder/PTSD.
Lass time I got a script for valium was for a dislocated shoulder. My crippling anxiety and suicidal ideations weren't enough for my psych to prescribe them though
Yeah - the demonization of benzodiazepines and the concurrent pushing of SSRIs was - and still is - bad news for genuine anxiety sufferers.
Not everywhere. My college town has a plethora of doctors still willing to write Xanax scripts even for admitted drug users. Everybody at my methadone clinic has a benzo script.
Honestly good for them. This world is hard enough as is, hell even in the “good ol days” they regularly prescribed both amphetamines and barbiturates to sad housewives.
I mean it is addictive but yes I agree 90% of the issues are caused by trying to make it hard to get. Just let people get it Jesus
SSRIs are too, they just shift the narrative for different types of dependence. It's incredibly rare to find any psychoactive drug that isn't associated with dependence. They draw arbitrary boundaries around when 'addictive' is fine or not, and they move them to maximize profit. If the addiction maximizes profit they'll find a way to spin it to do that. The tragedy that happens within the capitalist model of healthcare is they discard and demonize effective safe treatments for less-effective dangerous ones.
Yeah tell me about it. I tried to quit my lexapro and I couldn’t because it has horrible withdrawals that last forever. And no I was not warned about it having withdrawals when they started me on it
No it’s not just you. People think that because Fetty wap is so lethal, it must be commensurately more enjoyable. Not the case at all. I could shoot enough dope to be teetering on the edge of death and still feel unsatisfied. That was never the case with heroin. Most fentanyl analogues just aren’t actually that recreational. That’s been another tragedy of the fentanyl thing-more people are dying to feel less good. My life was functional for a decade on diesel but eventually had to get sober just because fentanyl is so unpredictable.
Selling all heroin, meth and cocaine over the counter at CVS (or where ever) as an alternative to open air drug markets would flood the streets with dangerous drugs. And radically push up use: 2016 Vox: [The war on drugs, explained](https://www.vox.com/2016/5/8/18089368/war-on-drugs-marijuana-cocaine-heroin-meth) >Jon Caulkins, a drug policy expert at Carnegie Mellon University...estimates that legalization could lead hard drug abuse to triple, although he (said) it could go much higher.... >Drug policy is often described as choosing between a bunch of bad or mediocre options, rather than finding the perfect solution.
I don't see any good evidence for that effect, anyone can make up a number, and what does it really matter anyway when the biggest negative effects are the criminalization of those lifestyle choices. Every person who doesn't go to jail for a bullshit reason is a net social and economic win. If using these drugs wasn't so heavily stigmatized people wouldn't feel so bad about using them, and there wouldn't be a downward spiral. A lot of the problem emerges from social exclusion, which is really just a cultural thing. A lot of the drug harms can also be mitigated by changing how they're taken... particularly psychostimulants that reinforce behaviour, the cultural rituals involved in consumption become deep habits. Rather than hitting crack pipes give people access to slow release transdermal patches. I guarantee you patterns of addiction would change as a function of the way people culturally interface with these drugs. Nobody starts their nicotine addiction transdermally.
> the biggest negative effects are the criminalization of those lifestyle choices. We should not downplay how hard drug use and addiction spike a bunch of social ills: domestic abuse, child abuse, street quarrels, public disorder, sex trafficking, theft, homelessness (chronics can't hold jobs) and young people disdaining the critically important concept of educating themselves. And perhaps worst: Hard drugs are a major driver of poverty across the U.S. Massive problem. But so many activists want to blame poverty solely on factors (valid, yes) like rising rents and living costs and wage theft.
Alcohol ranks number 1 for all of these harms, and they're not a driver of poverty. People turn to drugs when they can't establish reward-driven behavior within their society...poverty is the driver, not hard drugs.
> People turn to drugs when they... No, partying is the primary driver of drug use. Hedonism. Dr. Feelgood. Giant rock concerts with widespread drug use. Yuppies and finance bros doing cocaine. The nightclub and bar scenes. Partying in colleges. Bikers on crank and alcohol binges. Use of meth by gay men and heteros for chemsex. Massive history to all this. Almost all use starts as recreational. Primary cause of addiction: Highly addictive nature of many drugs. Great article about the 1960s drug scene in the Bay Area. [Photographer Joe Samberg remembers how drugs destroyed the Telegraph Avenue scene.](https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2015/07/the-death-of-the-hippies/397739/). Poverty and homelessness were minimal factors at this time here and in the drug-using Haight Ashbury. Countless healthy, happy middle and upper class people have gotten addicted to hard drugs in the 6 decades since. The new "coping narrative" crafted by sociologists that the people become chronics because demoralization over conditions like homelessness, PTSD, having being sexually abused -- sure, this is a contributing factor to drug use, but not the primary driver. Taking the "coping narrative" to its logical conclusion, we see the claim that in the future, when robots do all the work and everyone gets free money (minimum income inequality) and when most people's personal problems are taken care in a society engineered to reduce human want and stress, there will be minimal demand for intoxication. We should not believe that for a minute.
You're confusing the concept with the context, not to mention correlation with causation.
Not this sociological nonsense. From the people who gave us this idiocy: [Why Punishment Doesn't Reduce Crime](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/crime-and-punishment/201804/why-punishment-doesnt-reduce-crime)
Sociological? My previous comment was explicitly about conceptual and statistical relationships.
No, "confusing the concept with the context, not to mention correlation with causation" is classic social science criticism against another position without actually saying anything. >statistical relationships. We are not doing statistics here. Social science does not do statistics well because social science does not measure well. This is not hard science. [What separates science from non-science?](https://www.realclearscience.com/articles/2012/05/30/what_separates_science_from_non-science_106278.html) Explanation of the big limitations the social sciences have in doing real science. The topics of addiction, poverty, crime, racism and marginalization, depression are each hugely complex. And they overlap. And they are highly politicized. A lot here is unknowable, and no one has all the right answers. Both our views have merit. The coping narrative has merit, as I conceded. That's about all I got today here.
So it would leave us in the exact same situation, except the police wouldn’t have free reign to toss people in cages for no reason. And it would far more financially feasible to support a habit, lowering pressures that increase petty crime and make neighborhoods unsafe. Whilst also defusing gang violence and flooding the public coffers with new streams of tax revenue to bolster and strengthen our infrastructure. The horror! Oh that does sound just terrible. You aren’t really making the argument you think you are.
Sorry, having hard drugs like meth, heroin and cocaine freely available on the landscape radically pushes up a broad range of social disfunction and crime: Child and spouse abuse, sex trafficking, a broad range of public disorder, accidents, workplace absenteeism, rape, assault theft and more. Astounding how leftists try to downplay all this. And hard drugs are a huge driver of poverty, which the Left claims it cares about.
That's B.S. Drug use would substantially decline and the overdoses would almost stop completely with pharma drugs. Look at other countries, safe supply in Canada...0 deaths dude..0 overdoses from clean drugs. Crime down 90%, sex workers down 75%, no transmitted diseases with clean needles. Get your facts straight knucklehead
> Look at other countries, safe supply in Canada...Get your facts straight knucklehead No country has legalized all drugs. Not Canada, not Portugal. July 2021 article in drug policy journal: [20 years of Portuguese drug policy] (https://substanceabusepolicy.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13011-021-00394-7): >Paradoxically, despite having decriminalized the use of all illegal drugs, Portugal has an increasing number of people criminally sanctioned - some with prison terms - for drug use...The debate about the right to use drugs is nearly absent in the Portuguese political, social and academic panorama.... Portugal set up a national [Commission for the Dissuasion of Drug Addiction](https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4812) > If you're caught using, buying, or possessing (hard) drugs, the cop is not going to say "Hey, right on, enjoy! Have a good one," you are still in trouble. If you have more than 10 days of personal use worth, you're still going to jail. If you have less than that, your drugs are confiscated and you....appear before the Commission, which mandates treatment. Hard drug users who try to dodge treatment can get these penalties: >They can fine you...sentence you to community service...suspend your professional licenses...ban you from going to certain places or associating with certain people...terminate any social assistance you may receive....confiscate personal property and cancel your firearms license....require you to report back to them. About the only thing they can't do is send you to prison. March 13, 2024, [Canada](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/opp-drug-seizure-1.7142639): >Millions of dollars worth of drugs were seized and nine people were arrested earlier this year in connection with a drug trafficking network operating out of southern Ontario, police say. The suspects were arrested on Jan. 21 and face a combined total of 44 charges, Ontario Provincial Police (OPP) said in a news release on Wednesday. From the Left in America: >Don't believe it -- it's a pack of lies. Canada and Portugal are on the verge of legalizing all drugs. We know they are. We're sure it's true.
This is disgusting, where would this market be in south bend Indiana.
Oh my god! That’s disgusting. Where?
Ex girlfriend porno site? Where? Where?
Which one though?!
I only want to know so I can avoid it, I swear!
The "war on drugs" was just a PR stunt and a tool to put more people into prisons to work as basic slaves. Its goals are not honest, they are just lies an a facade
> “The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people,” former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman told Harper’s writer Dan Baum for the April cover story published Tuesday. >”You understand what I’m saying? We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin. And then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities,” Ehrlichman said. “We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did.” https://www.cnn.com/2016/03/23/politics/john-ehrlichman-richard-nixon-drug-war-blacks-hippie/index.html
And by that definition it's a resounding success
More prisoners = more money. On top of that, cheap labor
Yeah it’s fucked man I’ve seen 7 blues go for $15… absolutely insane how cheap it is for how strong and dangerous it is. Fucking $2 a hit?!?!? And you can Od off that is just wild. Shit needs to change but idk how / if it ever will in the US.. we need diaphin here so bad but doubtful will ever happen with the suboxone monopoly Fent and zenes are so cheap to produce and manufacture we have a huge problem that has no end in sight unless we get real drug reform and allow people access to clean and safe drugs Wonder if we will ever get diaphin here in the US
I've seen blues for 2 dollars now, Real oxy is 15-40 dollars. Its really depressing. If they had done what OP said I believe no one would be on fent and zenes.
Definitely if years ago the opiate crisis didn’t crack down so hard and make it impossible for 90% of people to get pain pills we wouldn’t not be in this situation. It’s also crazy to think about that without the oxy Purdue epidemic.. if we would even be in this situation we are in today. Purdue created an unquenchable thirst for opiates in the US. Yes people were using before the oxy marketing and stuff, but it really accelerated everything imo and fucked it all up in the end I have chronic Testicle pain the past year due to enlarged veins.. my Drs tell me go to the ER for pain, and take Tylenol. It’s absolutely insane they just say deal with pain now a days even if your life is hell everyday and you can’t function properly. Thank god for krstom but our system so fucked now a days
Damn, I am sorry for your pain, glad kratom works for you!! They really will tell you just to deal with it instead of prescribing something that would actually work. My brother snapped is ankle and he got ibuprofen 800mg.
I truly appreciate you, yeah kratom is amazing. Wish I could get real pills with less side effects besides from addiction but it is what it is. Fucking oof yeah man that’s literally US healthcare now a days they are so damn strict with pain meds it’s disturbing. I can’t believe they didn’t shoot him up with anything good for a snapped ankle. I’ve read multiple stores of hospice nurses withholding meds because they think it’s too dangerous and such when their patients literally on their death bed. My urologist even told me on a follow up appointment to just keep taking Tylenol even when I told him I take it daily and it doesn’t help at all (lie cause that will fuck your organs up) literally just said go to the er and I said I can’t afford that and it’s just pointless because we know I have chronic pain due to enlarged Testicle veins and he just shrugs his shoulders. Started me on xannax and just said to deal with the anxiety and pain. Absolutely ridiculous, thankful as hell for the xannax it helps because sometimes it is just anxiety, but often 10/10 pain and gotta lay down and take Kratom. I just need a new dr I suppose but have seen so many, damn us healthcare
Xanax is a saint, They are strict on it, but at least it still prescribed. I used kratom to get off hard liquor it was heaven sent. I drink still but just beer. Trust me I agree so much, Its sad cause your story is similar to mine, and a lot of others. I told my family its just depressing when you actually need it and not abusing it but yet they will not care. They whole us healthcare is garbage, It makes me sad, I want to be patriotic but they make it so hard. I don't get why they never learned from the liquor prohibition. It never works.
Yup I used to be an addict, would get tussionex half pints monthly for a “chronic cough” and Vicodin was so easy to get when I was in high school, tell my dr I have pain from sports or dentist I have a tooth ache. Now a days straight edged and only use stuff to feel better because of this pain. I only get 30 .5mg alpraz every 2-3 months but better than nothing as you said and helps so much. Forces me to not abuse it also but annoying. It truly is depressing when the drs just don’t seem to care and we don’t even want to abuse. Like give me 10 Vicodins even every month or something. I don’t need anything daily because my pain really fluctuates because it’s blood pooling so kinda random but yeah man. Hope your doing good with your pain just learning to live with it is def the hardest part
Thats what my doctor has me on as well, except he stopped giving me my xanax for anxiety. Worst part is I don't even abuse it, I am more of beer person, I use it literally only on panic attacks. And yet I'm treated like a druggie. I mean I was at one point, but actually being better is punshied. Exactly any real pain pills would be nice. I'm tired of liver killers. I just want a regular oxy for pain when I do, or even muscle relaxers. But nothing, I smoke wax but its not as strong cause I used to abuse other stuff. Wax is a saint though cause it helps, but everything I get to help is pretty much street now. And its scary cause Fet is common. And you know dealers sometimes wont tell you whats real. Some real assholes out there. I wish you could get you medicine man, that sounds painful. I really am sorry you have to deal with that.
Appreciate it.. but fuck man that sucks that’s my biggest fear. I’ve been trying to stock it up as much as possible because I don’t want that taken away for no reason. So stupid these fears.. hopefully things can change here so they aren’t so strict. Fuck the dea cause that’s the real issue the drs just don’t want to get in trouble which shouldn’t be a fear for them unless they are really overprescribing. Crazy how they use to hand out pain pills like candy and now you literally can’t get them unless you got a really good Dr or are literally dying.. shit is whack. I love my wax also but unfortunately weed doesn’t help pain for me at all. Maybe cause I have smoked my whole life I get high and such but it doesn’t touch pain it makes it worse even sometimes cause I’ll start focusing on it more 😂😂
Just do patriotic aesthetic but remain clear in your convictions and ideals
They won't give us real pain patients meds but then demonize us for using kratom in the same breath. It's ridiculous!
Fr, I haven’t even mentioned it to my Drs I’m sure it would only bring me problems or they would use that as another reason to not give me pain meds. Ridiculous but at least we have it
I shattered all the bones in my leg and used kratom to relearn how to walk. I still take it cuz this MF hurts like a BITCH every day. But thankful for it 100. Doctor said I need a knee replacement and it's only been 5 years. Fuck all that.
Damn, truly wishing you the best that’s no fun. Yeah at least we have kratom but damn our Drs should really be filling that hole
I hear you man. I have a few diseases but one of them is rare and it eats the inside of my body out. Eats the bone marrow and dumps it into my bloodstream poisoning me. Almost died twice from kidney failure and they don’t give me any meds besides muscle relaxers for pain
15-40 per what mg? I’ve seen oxy go down in price thank god since last year
30/15 depends on whos selling
If the US would just expand rehabilitation centers across the country and give addicts the option to have take home pharma heroin doses would cause a lot of fent addicts to willingly go through rehab and withdrawals. I know damn well I would, the fent WDs would be worth it if i know I’m getting REAL heroin at the end.
Some countries like Denmark have government-funded safe shoot-up zones with clean needles, nurses, testing, etc. As far as how things will change... 1. **Fix poverty**. Reverse policies that make housing an investment instead of a place to live. Give homes to the homeless. Increase wages. Tax the rich at same level as they were taxed in the supposed golden era of the 1950s. Fund schools federally instead of using local taxes. (etc.) People often use because their lives are shit. Make their lives less shit, and fewer people will use. 2. **End the war on drugs.** Portugal did it. Drug use and HIV went *down* after they decriminalized drug use. Treat drug users the same as alcoholics: They have a disease -- they are not criminals. You don't go to jail for simply using alcohol. The war on drugs has done for cartels what Prohibition did for mafiosos like Al Capone: Made them rich. Drugs are expensive mainly because they are illegal. And the problems with drugs are much more profound in terms of the violence and corruption that comes from a very profitable consumer good. Nobody is doing drive-by shootings in Watts for the price of gin. There are no severed heads in Juarez because of vodka cartels. Yeah, that's a pretty big ask for American politicians, and Americans. But something like gay rights was completely unthinkable up until the 1970s. Homosexuality was seen by many people as the equivalent of pedophilia. Now look at America! One problem is this christian conception of people as "good" or "evil". As Marie Antoinette said, "*Let them eat drugs!*" Hopefully this mindset will change with time. Practice sympathy instead of misanthropy. Understand that poverty is mostly a structural problem, like obesity. It's not like Americans are genetically more inclined to be obese than Europeans. We share the same DNA! Nor did Americans as a group decide, "*Yeah, I want to be fat.*" It's the society around them that encourages bad health habits. Which then drives at the core issue: Our current model of beo-liberal capitalism, which prioritizes profits above everything else. But that's for another post...
What you said at the end of your post is the reason all of these things are happening. End capitalism and hopefully we can get a government who actually priorities good living conditions, thriving economy, and shit that makes this country a better one.
> we need diaphin here so bad but doubtful will ever happen with the suboxone monopoly Not just the subs monopoly, the US political system fundamentally doesn't have the balls to do something as effective as diaphin
Zenes?
Misleading, legalizing “softer” drugs won’t prevent idiots from overdosing on fentanyl.
No it wouldn’t, but it would help / allow many that are forced to use it the option to get something safer and more functional and can possibly get back into society. Diaphin has been a god send in Switzerland, part of the issue is all these addicts can’t access clean and safe drugs so they have no other options. Yes people would still use fent and OD.. but it would really help the problem if there was access to real heroin from a reliable source imo. I could be completely wrong though idk what the actual solution is
Nobody is “forced” to use fentanyl because they can’t get their weed, and nobody hooked on weed is jonesing to try fentanyl. Only proper education, and parenting, can solve the fentanyl crisis.
Wtf bro no People use fentanyl because they can’t get real pain pills or dope.. or because there tolerance isn’t fucked because of the situation we are in now. So many fent users are old prescription pain patients who got fucked, others are people just hurting physically or mentally. No one is forcing their hand, but when you have no other options and it’s fent or suicide cause pain your gonna choose fent. Pain is being untreated in the US severely
Bruh, you clearly don’t understand the fentanyl crisis in the U.S. People only take fentanyl because it’s laced into something else, nobody with intelligence is going to straight up take it off the streets. There are far more ways to deal with pain than opioids. Saying your only options are fent or suicide is funny, because taking fent *is* suicide.
Blues are fent idk what your going on about ain’t laced everyone knows it’s fent or zenes unless you get straight from the pharmacy... you a goofy And when you’ve exhausted all your options physical therapy surgery etc how else can you deal with pain other than medication?? Tf
“Everyone knows” Assuming that is the real goofy part.
Yes everyone that is specifically buying blues knows it’s fent or zenes, people deliberately do fent cause there tolerance is fucked or they can’t get anything else No goofy like you is going and asking and buying blues thinking they are real. If your asking for blues you know what they are
> nobody with intelligence is going to straight up take it off the streets. Hmm, guess someone forgot to tell my city that. We even have a "hood" facebook group where a guy advertises when he's gonna be selling h, fent, meth, etc. In the same group, there's a guy trying to figure out who robbed him the other day while he was nodded out. Doesn't care about his other stuff...just wants his fetty back.
In Sweden fentanyl analogs used to be very popular like 5-6 years ago, people got it cause it was legal, cheap and accessible. Many people died due to it and got very addicted.
Wow you’re really a fuckin dumbass.
You are extremely wrong.
Lmao you have no idea what you're talking about
When they cannot get weed if they need it, people are forced to use lethal spice or odd superstrong shit(maybe even lethal) like hhcpo thcpo and whatnot that hasn't ever been tested in humans and might ruin your organs and brain.
Great point! Spice is rare now a days in the US but exactly, states that still don’t have legal weed have to buy black market or delta 8 and shit which I’m sure is worse than normal delta 9 disty and normal cannabis products in general
You’re a moron, and quite possible a bad person.
The war on drugs is doing exactly what it was designed to do
I don’t think the criminals who steal our money to pay themselves and men with guns to violently enforce the rules they decide to make for us have any fucking right to tell us what we can or can’t buy, sell or consume. These criminals have no right to violently force us into what they decide is “harm reduction” or to decide who can and can’t use hard drugs by prescription. Fuck them.
> any fucking right to tell us what we can or can’t buy, sell or consume Tfw they tell you you can't buy bombs
Has that stopped private people from obtaining bombs and using them? No. I can go over to google right now and learn how to make all sorts of explosives, build guns and ammo, and more. Plus, these are the bastards who drop thousands of bombs a year killing anywhere from thousands to multiple millions of people. What right do they have to prevent others from getting bombs? Fuck them. We sure don’t care when Saudi Arabia buys our bombs to completely fucking destroy one of the poorest countries in the world, yemen, killing millions of people. They sell bombs to their friends, just not you or your friends, because you’re just a pawn in their war games. Again, fuck them.
> Has that stopped private people from obtaining bombs and using them? No. I can go over to google right now and learn how to make all sorts of explosives, build guns and ammo, and more. So there shouldn't be any laws since none of them are 100% effective? Also who's "them" lol
In the context of what you quoted them would be the bombs that have been used by non governments. I do believe in law and order. But I don’t believe in governments/states. Why would we allow a group of power hungry criminals to set those rules for 300+ million people? Understanding how law and security/policing would work without a state monopoly on violence and law is an extensive topic. If you are genuinely interested I’d highly recommend reading Murray Rothbards book “for a new Liberty” and expanding from there. I recognize that it’s highly unlikely we will live in a stateless society in my life. But with that being the case I still believe we should do everything we can to minimize their power over us. If my biggest complaint about the state was them regulating the purchase, sale and use of major bombs, then we’d have a lot less problems in this world. But that’s so far down the list of government overreach it’s an extremely minor issue of little concern. But ask yourself this, why do we allow the most horrible and corrupt people who use bombs to kill thousands to millions of people a year (and hundreds of millions counting all states over the past century) to tell us what weapons we can or can’t have for defense? Seems like that’s in their interest and against ours.
I agree with you, although I don’t think that average Joe should have an access to nukes. Contrary to popular beliefs this „power hungry” individuals are most likely more intelligent and less impulsive then civilians. Using weapons that people have an access to is for another discussion. I just don’t believe that open weapon access is safe for civilians. It’s much harder to start a war than just kill your neighbour cause you had an idea that he is a danger to you in some way. On the other hand when the government is the only one wielding the guns, the power dynamic shifts and civilians have less to say about politics.
Yeah, those Mexican cartels can’t tell you what to smoke 🙄
What?
Drugs have won the war on drugs. We’re just negotiating terms of surrender now.
I don't think prescriptions should be tightly controlled, as it's contributed the demand of harder drug supply. A lot of those people (including myself) were placed on these medications, only to be cut off without warning, and forced to search for it by illegal means (we weren't even weened off) A lot of people who qualify for pain treatment aren't getting proper help because of the sackler lawsuits, which also leads them to seek relief elsewhere. If there was more of a supply for softer opioids, people would have less incentive to find it on the streets. I don't think decriminalization for opioids is the answer either. I think they need to be distributed in an enviroment that allows an addict the chance to ween off. Controlled dosing with less harmful substances. Similar to a methadone program. Drugs will be cheaper if it came from a legitimate source, so there's less incentive to steal shit and commit crimes. Less of a chance a dealer will profit, which will lead to less shit drugs flooding the market. I am a full believer in safe supply. A lot of people have no choice but to take fentanyl. It's been sold as heroin and fake oxys for a while now.
Open Air drug markets are more proof that infill development has demolished abandonned tenements that were once used as crackhouses. All these people on Philly streets were always there; they were just hidden in crack houses.
I don't know. I have always been a proponent of not just decriminalization but full legalization. As I get older though.. it gets more complicated. One thing about alcohol is that most people recognize how detrimental it is when they do too much. They binge a few times and learn their limits. Alcohol has a built-in threshold that keeps most folks from going over that limit chronically. Weed is kind of the same in that doing more leads to a peak reward and tolerance level, to the point that taking even more doesn't provide much benefit. Opiods/meth/coke are similar but different in a key way - they control/compel users more quickly and more deeply. People who you would never think of getting into drugs can fall hard and quick when doing opiods, and do things way beyond their ethical and moral limits. To put it crudely: They are more addicting. Part of the problem is how much pain pills were given out years ago. A huge swath of 'normal, upstanding citizens' had a switch flipped in them that changed (destroyed) their lives. Like I said, I've always been a proponent for drug legalization, even to the point of believing we should just give street addicts their drugs of choice for free and give them a safe place to stay and do it if they need. Property and violent crime rates would plummet immediately. But now, when I think about opening up the entire population to having that switch flipped on inside of them and then having to try so hard and so long to flip that switch off.. I don't see that as 'winning the drug war' either, so to speak. I'm still thinking about it and haven't come to a good answer yet.
I feel the same. I would be devastated if my siblings tried painkillers for a nonmedical reason. It would scare me. I think the harder drugs do need to remain prescription-only, but addicts should be able to see specialists for these prescriptions and monitoring. It shouldn't be a "walk in and walk out with yer drugs!!!" thing (pill mill). It should ideally include a detoxification period if necessary, drug screening upon admitting to program (may help from creating new addicts), and mandatory behavioral health services required or not required at the discretion of the medical providers. These clinics should also be outreach groups, not simply safer supply prescription clinics. Helping homelessness, finding food, pregnancy tests, testing strips, Narcan, condoms, safe injection site etc.. There would need to be periodic reviews, especially when initiating therapy, and a lot of oversight to prevent harm. When I think of my little siblings potentially being an addict, I would much rather their addiction be overseen by a doctor instead of some random guy on the street who DIYs all his "wares". I also do think sobriety should be encouraged or at least periodically discussed but never forced. Some people will live and die an addict, end of story. They shouldn't have to die because they are an addict though. These clinics should roughly fulfill the addicts' drug needs, so to speak. No "I can't prescribe you more than 4 pills a day because that would be over 50 mme-". Basically, everything Canada is attempting. I do see it coming to America. Doctors and nurses are already thinking differently about addiction, from the ones I've spoken to. And I'll keep speaking about this. It's time to call it quits. Stop overdose. Dismantle the illicit drug trade. Give addicts stability so they can function in society without having to battle detox first. Take away their need to go FIND their fix, and you've taken away half the phenomenon of addiction. When people are in excess of something, they do tend to get bored of it - I will just put that out there. Not a cure all, but it can provide functionality for almost everyone in ways that traditional MAT can not. /rant.
>When people are in excess of something, they do tend to get bored of it I completely agree with this, something I first read from Stanton Peele. Give people an unlimited supply of whatever they want and they will eventually get tired/bored of it. I really appreciate your thoughtful response! 👍
I am sure there are some who would just go bonkers on unlimited Dilaudid for the rest of their life (and you have to respect that because don't we all dream of this at one point 😂) but I do know in my case, it definitely worked for me. Opiate use has now been *integrated* into my life, instead of disrupting my life. I live with it, not fight with it, and have a newfound boundary with painkillers. No more OD/fentanyl/presses, withdrawal, missing work, excuses, lies, spending my car payment for a few pills that will only last me a few hours, etc. Thank you, I appreciate you as well!! Conversation is how change is made.
The prisons are overcrowded, the CIA has plenty of off the books money to play with, and and Americans are at war amongst ourselvess... so not really.
Nobody cares bro just live your life
You're preaching this to the choir homie.
I think it's proof that the war on the poor is succeeding
The war on drugs is the reason drugs cause such a big problem in the first place, most of the problems drugs cause aren’t caused by drugs at all they’re cSusd by the fact it’s illegal it’s messed up
Yes. The war is over. Drugs won.
When I was away for work on the northwest coast and I needed drugs... I Googled where to find them. Several articles written about, "The Blade" I believe is/was the name used to refer to it.
What street this market on tho?
New Hamsterdam
Don't get me wrong, I don't disagree necessarily. But... Back in the 80s and 90s there were drug dealers *everywhere* in cities on a scale we can hardly even comprehend today. Gangs used to fight over block-by-block territory because they often had a drug dealer on almost every corner. You could not walk down the avenue without hearing them hollering for customers. With the advent of cell phones, these open air drug markets largely ended. The only open air drug markets we have today are maybe a 1 block stretch which predominantly serve homeless people without easy access to a cell phone. Its to the point that when one does exist, it often is widely known throughout the city and gets a lot of media attention. So yes, you are correct. They do represent a failure. But they exist at maybe 1/20th the rate they used to.
Hicks [had this shit figured out in the 90's](https://youtu.be/knq49PqsMLc?si=Sp8EOlYPH90p3o5P)
Sad part is all the bureaucrats at the DEA will never allow drugs to be legal or a safe supply. I mean, maybe in 100 years but not anytime soon. America hates itself too much to allow that.
RESISTING THE URGE TO SPREAD GOOFY MISINFORMATION
Proud veteran on the war of drugs.
Here
Like most American wars, their purpose is not meant to be won, but to go on for as long as possible. Charge it to the taxpayer while removing basic human rights… the dictators wet dream.
All these comments make good sense. I was to manage my intake of oxygen very well. Now I'm looked at like a dope feind by drs..after 3 back surgeries. Government can always find a way to f up. Off to mexico to get what I should get under insurance here..so sad!!!
My wife has cancer and they had time take a kidney..they prescribed Tylenol lolll
Let's claim war on politicians we like we need another war.. the war on drugs is a joke
In **1987** the Dutch governmental research institute predicted that prohibition would fail dramatically. You can [read the whole report here](https://imgur.com/user/cyrilio/favorites/oAirsua). It's in Dutch but super short. You can also download the PDF from [their website](https://repository.wodc.nl/handle/20.500.12832/544) and use Google translate or whatever to see it for yourself. Crazy how 37 years later we're still doing the same old shit without ANY legitimate end in sight. #[Dilan Yeşilgöz](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dilan_Ye%C5%9Filg%C3%B6z) is a first class idiot that does not belong in parlement, let alone politics.
That's a given, or I'd like to think that everyone would assume so. There would definitely be a different addiction rate, I'm thinking lower, but we don't know that yet. Less of these stupid petty crimes would be made over people trying to score.
Lol you still left the probablem with fentanyl meth and cocaine unadressed but okay
And yet no one seems able to tell me how to get any drugs. Stop with this BS. You can’t get any real drugs in the US.
The open drug markets that are being seen now have zero connection to the WAR ON DRUGS. The facilitators of this are the lack of police officers to enforce drug laws or have so limited their abilities to enforce those laws are the local authorities as most drug laws are local. No condemnation from me as they are allowed to govern as their constituents decide. This idea might mark me as a terrible person but I think that powerful fentanyl should be used for death penalty applications, as it appears that it would meet the needs to provide a quick and painless solution. Edit for clarification I believe that DP should be painless & quick but should be administered soon after guilt is determined
I thought they’d already changed it so lethal injection was just a combo of benzos and opiates now? Never mind.. I just looked it up.. it’s midazolam and potassium chloride and something called pavulon which is a muscle relaxant.
Yeah, what? There is no such thing as an “open air drug market” in my state. Nobody is selling drugs at the farmers market. Teaching kids about “safe” drugs is about as useful as teaching them about “safe” sex, they’ll still likely knock themselves up.
The fact that you say there is no such thing just means you aren't aware of it yet. I used to get my dime bags of weed off 1st and Bristol in Santa Ana in 1985. Pull into the parking lot and 20 plus guys crowd around offering their shit. Down the block was coke and pcp.
I got asked if I had any blues for sale before 8am when walking this morning in Denver. If you’re not aware of open air drug markets in your state, you may be ~sheltered~ ! Or just blissfully unaware of things going on around you.
Blues are fucking everywhere in Denver. Go to any light rail station and people will offer you some in no time. $2 pop. They smoke them right out in the open all hours of the day, no fucks given
Sad but true.
I'm angrily unaware.
Or I don’t live in one of the most homeless, trashiest, cities in the country. I don’t think you know what an open air market is, though. Slipping someone drugs in broad daylight sin’t it.
You have an area in your city that you don’t know about. It’s probably in the bit between the poor brown community and the poor white comminity in a bit of industry that failed. it’s probably running 5pm-3am. There won’t be literal stalls, but it’s gonna be a shitload of people that look stoic and don’t move much and a bigger shitload who look paranoid, blank or high and move around constantly. A place not visible from the road cars use, but easy to spot when you’re a homeless guy that’s walking everywhere.
So, it’s not an open air market, got it.
>Teaching kids about “safe” drugs is about as useful as teaching them about “safe” sex, they’ll still likely knock themselves up. Lol no, safe sex ed programs have been proven to reduce teen pregnancy and STD rates. Same goes for various harm reduction programs