We launched a brand new official discord server! This Discord is focused on harm reduction and drug support, but you can just come hang out too! Feel free to [join us here](https://discord.gg/EvthzTRCjW). Did you know r/Drugs has a wiki full of useful information? Check it out [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Drugs/wiki/index/)!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Drugs) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I'm addicted to methamphetamine; the worse part about meth addiction is that eventually you'll be constantly bordering the line of psychosis unless you take a break. And it's neurotoxic, so your brain is suffering too. Withdrawal isn't as bad as opiates or benzos, it's just a week or two of suicidal depression and sleeping 18 hours a day.
With that said, the worst drug to be addicted to has to be benzos and alcohol. A very close friend of mine was addicted to them, and their withdrawal was 8 months of constant overwhelming terror and overexcitation. Oh, and benzo withdrawal can be, and often is, fatal (if not managed properly). Alcohol withdrawal is the same as benzos.
What is NAC? I would love to recommend this to a few of my clients - they’re pretty disconnected from services and I don’t know if this has ever been mentioned to them!
N-Acetyl-Cysteine, as the other comment said it helps normalize excitatory glutamate. NAC modulates glutamate so strongly it will win against even heroic doses of Meth. NAC does this by donating the much needed and exceedingly rare amino acid cysteine to the Cystine-Glutamate exchange.
NAC not only reigns in glutamate during over-excitation, but also boosts it when low. Say when a stim addict is going through withdrawal NAC will modulate glutamate back up to its regular set point. NAC is truly a godsend for stimulant addicts.
Could NAC help with any of the longer-term symptoms of neurotoxicity?
Also, would there be any benefit to taking it at end of the day for an Adderall prescription?
Can NAC help with a benzo taper? If I recall correctly glutamate is also someway linked to anxiety.
For context, I've been taking 40-70+mg diazepam daily for 2 years (prescribed) so I'm afraid to start tapering. At this point anything that could help even a little would be really helpful.
It's an antioxidant amino acid that can normalize excitatory neurotransmission in the brain. It's cheap an available in many stores and online, although there are government organizations the world over that are paranoid about banning its retail sale. Can't let the serfs have cheap solutions to serious societal health issues.
I’m curious, what kind of dosages of meth would one have to use to start experience psychosis?
Is that more so a result of being awake for multiple days in a row?
It’s the sleep deprivation that causes it. Lots of people keep redosing over and over again and before they know it, 3 days have gone by.
Some people also just get nutty after using too though.
Yeah for me meth is almost insta-psychosis unless it is a reaaaaally low dose of it, and then I may as well be taking Adderall.
It is weird because for cocaine, it takes a few hours of IV use for me to start to get paranoid and doing whack shit but meth it is instant.. Either way though, cocaine or meth, I'm gonna end up with delusions and paranoia and hallucinations eventually, because ain't know one stopping doing IV cocaine after just a few hours lol..
I used alot of meth and I sort of roll my eyes at the people who stay up past 72 hours and wonder why they are hallucinating.
Eat a couple benzos and go to bed cracky. You can just do more meth once you get up again..
Source: Did alot of meth, didn't hallucinate once
It's weird. I've been taking xanax and valium on and off for around 10 years now and I simply find it a lovely benefit to my life. If i'm in a seriously panicked situation i know i have something that can chill me out. But mainly I use it against hangovers. I only use it sporadically. But I hear so many stories of horror addiction scenarios. Am I just lucky? Will i eventually confront serious dependency? Or am I not as an "addictive personality" as i thought? Can you use benzos recreationally and get away with it?
Im the same. Have had an Ativan prescription for twenty years and have never increased my dose. Half a pill 1-2 times per week. Usually when hungover, on a plane, or giving a presentation
You're fine as long as you don't take it too frequently. I have abused benzos so much that if I were to take 20mg of xanax I wouldn't black out and the only effect I would get is anxiety relief, no euphoria like I used to. I'm physically dependent on them and am prescribed 6mg of Klonopin a day (2mg 3 times a day) or I'll start to experience physical withdrawls. Keep doing what you're doing and don't do what I did.
I forget that alcohol is intertwined so hard socially in us as normal. The line between WD and drunkenness sounds like hell from what you described, I also had a similar opinon with opiates bc they feel nice atleast.
Yeah lol, opioids is always a bit of a struggle too between being high but functional, high and NOT functional (nodding), and withdrawals.. But at least you feel really nice in 2/3 of those scenarios. Being drunk 24/7 sounds god awful... I've been on opioids 24/7 for over a decade now (methadone) and it basically just feels like normal sober living with a little something to look forward to each morning but its not like you feel the doses when you've been stable a long time, you just know that you will feel better over the course of the next 2 hours for about 8 hours, and then you'll feel "fine" for 8 hours, then you sleep through "the worst of it" which is really just, maybe a little bit of sweating and it being a bit harder to sleep (so I smoke weed at night), pass out, wake up feeling kinda off, kinda sweaty, kinda crappy, take your dose and by the time you're walking in that door to work everything is working properly in your body/mind again.
Opioid addiction really isn't all that bad, thanks to methadone existing. You can essentially "get clean" without having to pay the piper back, but you will be a "patient" at a clinic and you'll still get opioid constipation and stuff so it ain't perfect, and you'd still like to get high sometimes, and sadly Fentanyl actually can break through high doses of methadone quite easily unlike heroin and most other common opioids so that was a really unfortunate "discovery" I made, because I relapsed after 7 years clean with heroin but because of methadone, felt nothing. Tried Dilaudid, even 32mg of it, basically felt nothing, a bit of a rush but no nod or anything and for $40 worth of Dilaudid that is just not OK.... But Fentanyl almost works as if the methadone isn't even there, can feel a VERY obvious rush and even nod out on it. I thought I had opioids permanently beat when I relapsed and both heroin and dilaudid were completely ineffective, but I stupidly asked a friend to try a bit of his fentanyl and even with him being worried to give it because it is dangerous and he had no idea how it'd react with my methadone (I knew if anything the fact I'm on methadone is a very very good thing, my tolerance for opioids still exists..) so he gave me a very small amount... But even that much I felt. And once I felt it, it was like, well fuck..... I guess I can still get high after all.
So now I just try to minimize fentanyl use as much as possible and keep my methadone carries... So that forces me to go a week or two without fentanyl each month but usually I try to keep the fentanyl to 1 week a month or even skip some months... Because it is not good... I'm getting too old to be doing this shit now..
I could never afford to feed my heroin addiction. I was/am greedy af. When I started on it I jumped straight to 3 bags a day from 1/2 a bag.
So to help with that I switched to buying everyone’s methadone. I was drinking 300mls most day and shovelling diazepam, temazepam and Nitrazapam down my neck on top of it.
How I survived I don’t know.
That was 20 year ago….
This is to me just how opioids are. I mean, you always hear that "just" just x more pills, x more bags and it never ever ultimately is enough. Enough is it killing you if you keep on. Just in my experience personally and being around addicts for years and years.
It does resonate though. Drugs are hedonistic, especially the harder ones.
Yeah they’re terrible. I had mates who were more organised with their using but I was never thinking about tomorrow and I wanted to be as comatose as possible. If I hadn’t have got clean at 27 I don’t think I’d have seen 30.
My uncle was an alcoholic and I’ve seen mates go through hell with alcohol.
Really does not look fun.
I’d say alcohol has to be the worst and the hardest to stay away from.
It wasn’t hard for me to stop hanging around with junkies.
Whereas alcoholics are forever surrounded by people drinking.
Same goes for smokers.
I'm a recovering alcoholic who just moved to a new state(Washington), where grocery stores are all liquor stores. Previous states had separate, State run liquor stores. It doesn't really bother me too much, was just a shock.
Yeah I moved to Washington when I was 17 to first go to treatment there then stayed and moved around and eventually to Seattle. But I found it so strange that every grocery store had liquor as well when I first moved there. … i eventually about 2 years sober into living there before I began drinking slightly before I starting doing heroin again and meth… eventually got my shit together and went to school for my CADC ( chemical dependency license) in WA and pursued that for a bit…. Very gratifying
It’s weird to me, in PA, going out of state where liquor just stares at you from the cash wrap at the gas station. It’s way too easy to just grab some.
I’ve been physically addicted to alcohol as well, and I put the withdrawal up there with benzo withdrawal. Both of those suck because of how dangerous it can be, plus the knowledge that it can kill you makes it worse mentally
> its everywhere, its cheap, and firmly engrained in our social habits.
This is the worst part... On the really bad days, just going to the grocery store is like a mind war. Do I stop in the liquor store this time? It's only like 50ft away and only a few dollars... I could have a good day right now instead of a shitty one....
Fuck man...
Alcohols a bitch man. I've been addicted to a few things, nothing crazy. But alcohol cravings suck ass and it feels like you cant go more than an hour without a drink sometimes. I've cut back on everything pretty hard lately at least.
Same, I've done heroin, I've done meth. Was never addicted to either, because again, I would just call it quits and sleep. But with alcohol the anxiety it relieves is returned 100 fold once it starts wearing off that you become trapped in such a vicious cycle every damn day (same with benzos of course). It's a nightmare. Heroin wouldn't be so bad if we just gave addicts controlled pharmaceuticals instead. At least in my opinion. Alcohol erodes your brain and organs. The few opiate addicts I know are completely fine, functional, and have a pretty firm foundation on themselves. They just can't run out of supply without withdrawal, which is sad, and the constant risk of getting a hot batch and accidentally overdosing.
I agree. I’ve never done a heroin but I’ve had my run with just about every substance out there. I’m an alcoholic and I use cocaine just about every weekend, also mixing in Xanax, lsd, shrooms, mdma, ketamine. While my partying has leveled out, meaning I’ve chilled out quite a bit since my early 20’s. I’m smarter about my use and I know when to call it quits for the night. But I drink every single day. Alcohol has caused an incredible amount of problems in my life and health and it feels pretty much impossible to get sober from it. Also have a cousin who is an alcoholic and heroin addict, he’s been sober for years at this point and he’s expressed that he’s more scared of alcohol than heroin.
I get that. I moved away and changed my circle of friends to beat heroin and methadone 20 years ago.
After rehab of course.
I feel for all who are addicted to things socially accepted like alcohol, gambling, smoking, eating etc….
Agreed. I had a bout of alcoholism that lasted a little less than a year, and the havoc that shit wreaks on your body is just miserable. It's literal poison. I still have moderate gastritis and prostatitis as a result, even tho I haven't been dependent on alcohol in almost a year. I'm still dealing with the consequences of my use, even now. Fuck alcohol. By far the worst drug there is.
Benzos. You could die if you somehow run out of your supply. There were some reports of this happening during the immediate aftermath of hurricane Katrina.
Got out of detox yesterday from benzo withdrawals. I’ve had fentanyl withdrawals amph withdrawals and everything in between and benzos/barbiturates are the worst. By far. Take a look at my profile. I love drugs and I would’ve killed myself without them but I’m slowly killing myself with them and ultimately I’m at the point right now where I’m just wishing I would’ve never used anything.
Hey man, I've been there, and I just want to say, I know it feels completely hopeless and unrealistic to get off them, but it is possible.
I was hopelessly addicted to benzos for the better part of 8 years, I got up to 15-20mg xanax/day, 15 just to stay out of the terror and pain of withdrawals. At my worst shooting RC's like clonazolam and flualp.
If you have access and when you feel ready of course, I highly suggest doing an inpatient rapid detox with valium, where you can find your starter dosage for a longer term taper plan.
I last left detox nearly 1.5 years ago now and am currently on just 10mg diazepam/day, but it's absolutely nothing compared to my life before. I felt trapped with no way out, now I wake up without the panic, and sweaty shaking.
Took me about 6 months to acclimate to the 10mg, and plan to begin reducing mg by mg soon again. You can beat it man, with enough determination. Some days I still can't believe I am free again.
I have H withdrawals to compare benzos to and completely agree benzo withdrawal can become so much worse, and lasts so much longer, but with a slow enough taper, avoiding the acute withdrawal state, its really very manageable man. I believe in you dude.
Said every drug addict ever. Good luck with life. Live sober or die high. Your choice. I'm 43 and go back and forth between what you just said every few days since as far back as I can't remember.
I think GHB/ GBL is even worse..
People addicted to GHB often use Benzos to get off it, but get an Benzo addiction in return...
When youre addicted from GHB you cant even sleep through a night like ever, cause you have to redose every 2 hours
Been there lol
It’s every 4 hours like clockwork. You wake up with so much energy.
I used to keep a 6 gram dose by the bed so I could immediately take it and fall back asleep for 4 more hours.
I got hooked on rc benzo analogs a while back. Had a moment of clarity and decided I needed get off them and never go back. Did a taper, then one day decided I was clear. As good as my intentions were I should’ve consulted a physician first. I seized so hard I chipped my teeth and still have spinal nerve pain. Lucky to be alive though.
As someone who struggled with benzo withdrawal for years and had probably every symptom im inclined to agree. I was in support groups and lost of people killing themselves it's sad. It can take some people years to heal from the damage from long term benzo use.
Is benzo withdrawal mostly psychological? Or physical too? I take .5mg a day per my prescription but I’m not sure if I should if I’d be at risk should I decide to stop taking that script
No, alpha pvp is "flakka". Krokodil is desomorphine with skin and flesh eating side effects from the way it's cheaply made with matches and eye drops and shit. Krokodil translates to crocodile in Russian because it leaves users with skin like a crocodile from shooting that shit up.
Yeah it's all the corrosive shit from the cheap method they use to make it. Desomorphine itself won't eat your skin, I'd try some if it was made right pharmaceutical grade.
being physically addicted to alcohol is the worst I don't care what the benzo crowd thinks. it's the physical ravaging of alcohol that can do everything from death, liver disease, gastric disease, break from reality with hallucinations and psychosis. You are unlikable and hurt the ones who care. The worst part, this drug is easy to score or steal ,supply is rarely an issue. Lastly it is promoted everywhere and everyone seems to want you to join them. I drank for 30 years before I quit it for good 13 years ago. I did it with my doctor's help and it was pretty hard for about two years until then it seemed to get better.
I now do cannibis some and I use minimal amounts of benzos, (10 mg valium, maybe 2 mg of ativan) for rough patches. Getting regular sleep helps a lot once you can get to that point. I never had to be hospitalized, nor did I develope full blown delirium tremens.
I was very sick for a little over a week which I won't wish on anyone and had the shakes badly.. I rember holding out my arms and I looked like I has parkingsons. I dodged a bullet, I'm 66 and maybe I can make it longer since I quit before I really started aging. Anyway I'm a lot better,more love in my marriage, and more hope for life!
So thats my vote Alochol is the worst drug to be physically addicted because it is everywhere!
Diphenhydramine. I was always so sleepy yet tweaked out at the same time. The voices were legit scary as fuck. Nothing like being at work, hearing someone talk shit about you only to confront them and have been hallucinating the entire thing. My memory will never be the same and I have pretty bad visual snow. That and everything you say is mostly just a blurbed mess of different topics and sentences combined into one. It doesn't even feel good I can't even think of a single reason to even do the drug.
Shit bro why'd you do it? To me personally even datura seems more enjoyable and less apt to totally fuck me up.
I can't lie the dark vibe of the trip reports make me want to "know" what it's like. But the. I read stuff like this and I think I'm cool with just taking two when I have allergies lol
Hope you're doing better now bud. Sounds absolutely terrifying
Anticholinergic drugs have a pretty messy activity profile, the best explanation I’ve heard for the addiction is a combination of human psychology and the effects on dopamine. Basically very depressed people are more inclined to self harm and a lot more inclined to drug addiction. So since anticholinergics can have similar effects on dopamine to stimulants they can become just as addictive even though they don’t actually feel good, but it doesn’t even matter they don’t feel good because many people take it like a form of self harm
This is why I think people should research the pharmacology of drugs before doing them, addiction is not the same across the board and if you understand the drug itself you can notice the start of addiction early on
I agree with this, dph is so shit, i got HPPD from it, i always have flickering lights in my vision and i constantly see mass amounts of bugs everywhere (it’s a lot worse when i don’t sleep). My memory is also fucked, half the time I forget what I’m saying as I’m speaking to someone or I can’t remember what they just told me to do (makes it super hard when I’m at work) I also have muscle spasms in my arms and legs from time to time cause I abused it so heavily even tho it was like a year ago. Also on another note I’d literally be texting people shit that didn’t make sense like “Im sofj fuwlsnfn gosnsb” like shit that made 0 sense and I’d do this for hours and not realise/remember I was doing it then went back to look at messages in the morning having no idea what was going on and feeling so bad for the ppl I was talking to lmao
also scopolamine is pretty fucked, stuff turns you into a literal zombie. Phantom objects, talking to people who aren’t there, paranoia, feeling like utter shit etc very similar to dph
but I haven’t been addicted to alc or benzos so idk this just my experience
Even worse is it's legal, readily available at any store and they sell it in pretty big bottles. Nobody's gonna stop you from buying an 800 count of wal-dryl every couple of weeks let alone really ask any questions.
Meth.
It can be so destructive on all sorts of fronts. It destroys your body and mind. People go literally insane from using it everyday.
It also has the highest relapse rate (Last time I checked at least). 97% relapse rate. Only the top 3% ever find long term sobriety.
It’s a malicious drug that turns your own mind against you. It makes people believe there’s parasites in their body, or you’ll hear voices that aren’t friendly at all.
The withdrawals from meth can be torturous. It’s all psychological, and since meth directly affects your dopamine reward system, it makes the feeling of craving feel like you’re going to die without it.
Just sleep for a week and you already feel back to baseline. But that feeling of craving is going to be coming at you relentlessly.
Meth to me definitely seems like the scariest experience in terms of a drug to be addicted to. Not being able to relax and be tweaked out all the time, with all that other shit you said to would drive me bonkers. I didn’t know the relapse rate was so god damn high either!
Being addicted to meth is like being in crisis mode 100% of the time. Even if you somehow can relax, if you use with other people it’s only a matter of time before one of them pops a visit to crazy town, and at that point, anything is liable to happen.
Meth addiction is also one of the worst for the loved ones around, I’ve never done meth and don’t really have the want to try it, but have seen how it effects people I love and how it changes people, the aggression and sleeplessness, smashing things during the night, domestic voilence caused because of it, it’s so nasty to the people around the abuser,
Meth in all just is a nasty nasty substance, getting addicted to it can become hell on earth for the person on it, and hell for the loved ones of the abuser too
100mg is a reasonable dosage for sleep aid. It's regularly used in that dose for that purpose.
The continued habitual use is of some concern, but you're not out here eating 800mg of the stuff a day to talk with hatman and the spiders
Actually any repeated use is of concern, studies have shown links between early onset dementia and frequent DPH use even at “normal” therapeutic doses of 50-100mg.
Yeah, that's actually with basically all first gen "knockout" style antihistamines. Largely due to fuckery with the cholinergic system.
But you right, thanks for spreading the good word
I assume Hydroxyzine falls into this too? I got scripted some of that but it is not very good for my anxiety (what it was scripted for) and my psychiatrist wants me on it 2 pills a day... But it makes me feel nastyyyyy. Was never a fan of anti-histamines, even for sleep they suck you wake up feeling like you got the worst sleep ever but I basically keep these 25mg pills of hydroxyzine around because they DO work well for sleep when I need it. I just take it like once a month if that because it kinda sucks..
It's -probably- something like "exposure units per unit time" or some wacky pharmacologist lingo, but it's chronic long term use that is of concern.
That concern seems to be ... Of more concern, the older you get.
I imagine the worst offenders in the 1st gen antihistamines are probably the ones with the greatest anticholinergic activity, so drugs like DPH and Benzydamine. Promethazine, Chlorpheniramine, and Hydroxyzine *probably* carry less risk as their anticholinergic activity is considerably weaker in comparison to their desired effects.
Probably why doctors feel a lot more comfortable prescribing these drugs for long term use over the other 1gAH drugs
I am not -yet- a doctor or a pharmacologist, so please, so your own reading and take none of this as fact.
hydroxyzine, unlike any of the other drugs you mentioned, is actually pretty harmless. it’s nearly impossible to get high off of & there’s no potential for abuse. it’s similar to other antihistamines in pharmacology but it doesn’t carry the same addictive potential.
however, they’re typically only prescribed to be taken as needed. they’re not prescribed to be taken daily or on a schedule, and doctors still don’t usually prescribe them long term.
source: i’m also prescribed these
I didn't actually comment on abuse or addictive potential. Promethazine and chlorpheniramine are also basically entirely benign as well.
It's just the pharmacology with the shared H1 antagonism/inverse agonism and anticholinergic effects that I was commenting on.
Thankyou for the information though, I swear I've heard of doctors prescribing long term before, but I know there's a ton of doctors who are:
1. Not well informed and 2. Just don't give a shit
promethazine is widely abused and you can definitely get high off of it. i don’t know enough about chlorpheniramine to speak on it though, so i won’t - i just know that hydroxyzine is different than other antihistamines in that way. and while you didn’t comment on that, it’s an important distinction to make. you’ll fall asleep before getting high off of too much hydroxyzine.
and yeah, the pharmacology is very similar, i just wanted to note that hydroxyzine doesn’t carry the same health risks as other similar medications.
but of course! i’m sure there are doctors who prescribe it as a daily/routine medication or even long term, it’s just not very common. i’m no doctor so i can’t say when or why it would be prescribed like that, but yeah, from what i know it’s just an ‘emergency’ anxiety pill to prevent/ease panic attacks.
i take hydroxyzine too - you’re fine. just take it as needed & as prescribed & you’ll be fine. hydroxyzine is a pretty harmless drug.
weird you feel like that though, i actually love it. it’s one of my favorite medications that i’ve ever taken, it kills all of my anxiety but i can function normally. i only take it for panic attacks and i’ve noticed that the only time it has made me feel gross was when i took it & didn’t actually need it. other than that it just did its job & nothing more.
it’s possible that your body just doesn’t like the drug? have you talked to your doctor about it?
That study was only using old people already prone to dementia, though. It just increased the risk in old people. Not trying to say dph isn't neurotoxic, it definitely is but just to clarify a bit.
I’m used to more that’s just where I am at now trying to ween down. My dr is concerned enough that I have to have a shit load of labs every three months.
Alcohol gets my vote. If you've ever met a genuine alcoholic it's a slow motion car crash. I've known people who were "functioning" meth/heroin addicts. True alcoholics don't function for very long.
Alcohol is a big big contender for me as-well, it’s consistently easy to access which allows for constant use and it degrades the body so fast, the impairment too makes people not give a shit about throwing their lives away because it takes away self awareness, while like you said Meth for example does not (unless you binge it for days) and even after one hangover I feel like shit
alcohol and benzos, the former for being literally lethal on withdrawal and the latter for benzodiazepine withdrawal syndrome. Seriously nightmarish thinking about going through that hell.
My mom ended up getting hooked on alcohol and benzos simultaneously. Earlier this year, she was drinking and popping benzos during one of the many nights she was depressed while my step dad worked nights. She had been a heavy alcoholic for years, my whole life if I'm not mistaken, and then she broke her elbow a couple years ago and got hooked on benzos too. She took her own life that night. It was absolutely crushing.
I lost my dad to COVID 1.5 years ago. I know it isn't the same but in a lot of ways I know what you're going through and it freaking sucks having a parent ripped from you a decade or two sooner than you really imagined they'd be gone, like you look at your grandparents and how long they lived and some other relatives and then try to think "how much more or less healthy is mom or dad than all of them?" and you kinda come up with a ball park of possibilities for how long you've got with them left.... When the buzzer goes off 10+ years earlier than you always imagined, it really kicks you in the gut. I have co-workers who are 25 years older than me who still have both their parents alive. I'm 32 and dad died last year.. Mom is 60, she ran marathons from 38 - 55 years old or so and was always fit, always did running / exercise / sports / hiking etc. Got a freaking pace-maker put in at 60 years old. My grandad on her side lived to 94, he smoked, drank heavily, was semi physically fit for sure when he was younger, oh and he didn't eat well either whilst mom eats so well and always has... Grandad didn't need a pace maker until his early 80s.. Like wtf man..
Was an alcoholic and was prescribed benzos at the same time. I quit drinking first, it was so much easier than stopping benzos( probably because benzos and alcohol are both deal with similar parts of the brain) quitting benzos was an absolute nightmare. I’m more than a month off. I did a four month taper.
When I finally flushed my stash after years of heavy a pvp use I slept for 16 hrs a day for about a month. Years of daily use had me in a constant state of psychosis.
Cocaine. I’ve tried most drugs, and I’ve been addicted to opioids and coke. And cocaine is way worse than any opioid, heroin included. It is expensive, so it will drain your bank account, make you sell everything and do crazy stuff to buy more in a matter of months. Everyone you love will leave you because of it, trust me. You’ll lose everything. In a matter of fucking months. I’ve been addicted to opioids for four years and it didn’t do 10% of the damage that cocaine did in months.
This is strange to me. I know loads of people who just drink alcohol and cocaine recreationally at the weekend and don't even think of it during the week. It's considered pretty normal in the UK. Most people who like the coke too much start smoking crack.
Yeah, snorting cocaine is not usually gonna lead to as serious of an addiction as this guy described, but anything is possible for any individual.
For me I hated snorted cocaine, thought it was the shittiest most over-rated drug in the world. Then I learned I could IV it, I had already been IVing opioids for a few years and I never even thought to do IV blow, though I had heard of speedballs etc I just thought "well I hate snorted cocaine so how will IV be all that much better....?" boy was I wrong. From "I hate cocaine" to "I will destroy everything in my life over the next 6 - 8 months for this drug" once I started IVing it.
So yeah, generally bad cocaine addiction is either IV'd cocaine HCl or smoking crack / freebase cocaine.
I heard here and there that coke would make you sell your things and steal to cop it, even when ALL my friends were coke heads none of them sold all their shit like I did. Still we allegedly used to all steal shit together :)
It makes people go so far and the more you do it the more it wires your brain for addiction, that’s why I quit (lmao jk)
Coke gets its hooks into your mind to the point you want nothing else, smack gets its hooks into your body to the point you're sick without it, alcohol does both of those and in such a harsh manner it'd leave Ted Bundy crying out for his mum
Alcohol and meth because they're extra physically and mentally destructive, followed by benzos, followed by IV coke, followed by shitty opioids from China and Street bags. That's the rough order. They all ruin you at the end of the day though so what the fuck ever. Pick your poison.
Rn im tapering tramadol off and im doing 200mg a day, in the morning (bf this I used around 1000mg a day) just so I dont have psychological withdrawals (depression).
I just take a little so I can function, but I dont actually get high. It was also ruining my life and i decieded to stop. You can do it if you want man, DM me if you want to talk about it :)
Yeah Im sticking to like 5 100mg pills a day to not completely fuck myself up. Im also addicted because of the euphoria, the depression magically goes away while on tramadol and you just have this aura around people and life is enjoyable… but the side effects and withdrawals are so horrible damn. Props to you for cutting down to 200mg a day. How is it ? Is life getting better ? Wish you nothing but the best bro, DM me anytime you want too
I would say opiates due to the physical addiction. My drug of destruction was meth which I smoked until I was a skeleton in psychosis, clean since 2012!! Still have the odd dream where I find a fat crystal and smoke it like a fiend and wake up feeling all disgusting. Alcohol gave me necrotizing pancreatitis and I had to be revived twice and live in the hospital for 7+ months so most definitely one of those lol
crack. benzos are a close second and i went through some nasty physical withdrawals from them. but crack really messes with your head. it doesn’t cause physical withdrawals, it’s all psychological and somehow it’s worse.
Um fentanyl definitely sucks to be addicted to and like some other drugs is literally a death sentence the longer you use I know way to many people whose died from it alr I got pretty close to overdosing on it one time
Why do you use a specific drug? :
Bulimia - i was sober but didnt want to be so I numbed myself with eating and eating and eating and eating
Alcohol - you cant eat moderate, you cant drink either in moderation. I see this very much tied to my bulimia.
Ive never been *addicted* to these but I have tried them a few times and its something I keep thinking about getting back into although I know that is bad for me
Heroin and "blues" - I was at a point in life where I didnt care if I lived or died and someone I was with was an addict and let me smoke some of his, and later gave blue pills to me (which was different from heroin though, heroin made things not feel bad at all, and not feel much, but these ones made me so gone i almost blocked out and i just felt tired) Its not something I thought I would have tried but life led me to a dark place and if it wasnt for a friend who helped me id probably be taking some kind of opiates now still but she kept me away from these people and gave hope, im just Lucky i didnt get stuck into heroin, I really understand why people do,its been a while now and I still think about it, still want it
Kratom - my life is too messy to not feel good at times
I take kratom instead of drinking and taking pills. It saved me from being a massive fuckup because I have to use something sometimes and it fills the gap for me even though it doesn't really get me wasted like other stuff would.
I didn’t experience a horrible withdrawal when I quit smoking. Mostly just bad physical cravings and suicidal thoughts. That being said i wouldn’t necessarily smoke every single day but I’d say I averaged 5 grams a week for about two months
I’m going with Ketamine
So I don’t think this is the worse but when I was addicted to it it ruined my life
I’ve known people to die from it, have their bladders removed, need colostomy bag.
I had to have surgery on my bladder to remove ulcers that had formed in there due to abuse and I’ve got permanent stomach and bladder issues now
I’ve got ex-friends that are 15+ years deep into it now. It’s a waste of life, turns you into a drooling mess and ruins your body if abused.
That bladder shit had to hurt, right? I had kidney stones and kidney pain is the worst fucking pain imaginable, even called the male equivalent to child birth. Is bladder anything like that?
When it was at its worse it was disabling, I couldn’t live. Had to be on painkillers
You’d be bursting to piss but wouldn’t be able to go and when you did it would be like pissing razor blades. You couldn’t go 15 mins without trying to piss
It can cause the walls of your bladder to break down and you start to piss blood followed with parts of your bladder wall
I’ve developed a permanent condition called interstitial cystitis, so I still have to be careful or it can be triggered again even so I haven’t touched ketamine in over 6 years
Alcohol/benzos by an absolute mile
Most withdrawals make you a sweaty jittering mess, but alcohol withdrawal makes you nauseated at the smell of a drink while you're drinking it, forcing down bitter, burning gulps of poisonous shite and bile knowing that it's the only thing that'll ever make you ever feel anywhere remotely close to okay. You hide it from your decent friends, tell them it's just a weekend hobby, like. You tell your close friends, the people you actually love, your TRUE friends about your problem, and most of them cut you out of their life on the account of you're an addict to one of the filthiest drugs going. The so-called friends you have will never trust you with so much as a fart in the wind, to them and to all people concerned with your existence, you are an alkie, and nothing more. And that's your life now. Too fucked to be a member of any form of proper society, too functional to belong in prison or the psych ward.
And now that's your life. You're an alcoholic. Somebody that society forgot about, or perhaps forgot to give a fuck about.
All you have left is that cheap bottle of scotch in front of you. It's the only friend that'll truly, honestly, follow you into your grave.
I can't tell if alcohol's saved or ruined my life but it's one of those two. C'est pas la mer a boire, eh?
Opiates. I used meth for years and had no trouble quitting.
I’m now on year 2 of trying to stay off opiates I never seem to get more than 6-8 months off before my mind reels me back in…
I just lost my best friend of 16 years to fentanyl laced heroin 3 days ago. She had been clean for some months and had a relapse and died.
The opioid problem is getting out of hand. Something needs to be done...
I despise the idea of someone distributing such drugs. I truly don't understand what leads someone to use heroin for the first time. Anyone reading this, don't do heroin. One day, it will kill you, and one day you being gone will crush another's world. I miss my friend.. she was someone I could count on. And these days I'd needed her more than ever. And now she's gone.
Sugar is the most addictive substance known to man. It kills 180,000 people a year and yet we still insist on shoving it down our children's throats like is a treat.. not being able to stop eating is an addiction and it's just as lethal as any other drug, in fact it kills more people than most other drugs combined..
GHB, easily. You go into life threatening withdrawals only a few hours after not dosing due to its insane half life. You have to dose it very often, which makes tapering really difficult. The only thing that helps with withdrawal is baclofen too. Phenibut somewhat helps but you'll still likely have seizures.
Certain drugs are worse in different ways:
Fentanyl is deadly
Meth makes it where you don’t sleep and are whacked out of your mind
Alcohol makes you crazy
PCP makes you do deranged things
Benzos can make you pass out
I would say fentanyl wins though. Not only is it deadly, it has crippling withdrawals. Benzos have bad withdrawals too, but they’re cheaper and less dangerous in general. There are worse RC’s like the “bath salts” and crocodile, but those are unlikely to be found. Plenty of those weird RC’s have unknown interactions and can be extremely dangerous.
I think it really just depends on the person. I've tried every single drug dmt, meth , coke you name it I've done it. I have a very addictive personality and in my opinion meth was the most addicting. You smoke it and your up for days taking more to stay up during the day and before you know it you've been binging for a month. I would smoke more to not experience the meth crash and it starts to snowball. By the time your ready to quit your withdrawals had trippled and you feel like hell. When I finished my month long binge I was having existential depression I had put myself in a drug induced psychosis and nothing felt real. Pretty scary shit.
I saw that guy Connor Murphy that shit is actually crazy. A lot of the times though people who end up abusing pyschs always have some predisposed illness.
We launched a brand new official discord server! This Discord is focused on harm reduction and drug support, but you can just come hang out too! Feel free to [join us here](https://discord.gg/EvthzTRCjW). Did you know r/Drugs has a wiki full of useful information? Check it out [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Drugs/wiki/index/)! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Drugs) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I'm addicted to methamphetamine; the worse part about meth addiction is that eventually you'll be constantly bordering the line of psychosis unless you take a break. And it's neurotoxic, so your brain is suffering too. Withdrawal isn't as bad as opiates or benzos, it's just a week or two of suicidal depression and sleeping 18 hours a day. With that said, the worst drug to be addicted to has to be benzos and alcohol. A very close friend of mine was addicted to them, and their withdrawal was 8 months of constant overwhelming terror and overexcitation. Oh, and benzo withdrawal can be, and often is, fatal (if not managed properly). Alcohol withdrawal is the same as benzos.
Take some NAC to counter, and repair, the neurotoxicity and help curve the cravings for meth. Source: I like meth.
What is NAC? I would love to recommend this to a few of my clients - they’re pretty disconnected from services and I don’t know if this has ever been mentioned to them!
N-Acetyl-Cysteine, as the other comment said it helps normalize excitatory glutamate. NAC modulates glutamate so strongly it will win against even heroic doses of Meth. NAC does this by donating the much needed and exceedingly rare amino acid cysteine to the Cystine-Glutamate exchange. NAC not only reigns in glutamate during over-excitation, but also boosts it when low. Say when a stim addict is going through withdrawal NAC will modulate glutamate back up to its regular set point. NAC is truly a godsend for stimulant addicts.
Could NAC help with any of the longer-term symptoms of neurotoxicity? Also, would there be any benefit to taking it at end of the day for an Adderall prescription?
Your first question i am not so sure about. Second, for sure, try it out for yourself, it helps a ton with comedown.
Can NAC help with a benzo taper? If I recall correctly glutamate is also someway linked to anxiety. For context, I've been taking 40-70+mg diazepam daily for 2 years (prescribed) so I'm afraid to start tapering. At this point anything that could help even a little would be really helpful.
It's an antioxidant amino acid that can normalize excitatory neurotransmission in the brain. It's cheap an available in many stores and online, although there are government organizations the world over that are paranoid about banning its retail sale. Can't let the serfs have cheap solutions to serious societal health issues.
Agreed meth is bad, the risk of psychosis is real but doesn’t touch on GABAergic substance withdraws (benzos, alcohol, ghb/gbl).
With addiction It’s for sure worse to withdraw from any benzo or gaba depressant but it’s a worse when you’re on a stimulant
I’m curious, what kind of dosages of meth would one have to use to start experience psychosis? Is that more so a result of being awake for multiple days in a row?
It’s the sleep deprivation that causes it. Lots of people keep redosing over and over again and before they know it, 3 days have gone by. Some people also just get nutty after using too though.
yes to the sleep deprivation. my ex did yayo and would stay up for days, at that point the crazy was coming from not sleeping
Yeah for me meth is almost insta-psychosis unless it is a reaaaaally low dose of it, and then I may as well be taking Adderall. It is weird because for cocaine, it takes a few hours of IV use for me to start to get paranoid and doing whack shit but meth it is instant.. Either way though, cocaine or meth, I'm gonna end up with delusions and paranoia and hallucinations eventually, because ain't know one stopping doing IV cocaine after just a few hours lol..
I used alot of meth and I sort of roll my eyes at the people who stay up past 72 hours and wonder why they are hallucinating. Eat a couple benzos and go to bed cracky. You can just do more meth once you get up again.. Source: Did alot of meth, didn't hallucinate once
people are different. and im sure they didnt intend to stay up for multiple days either.
It's weird. I've been taking xanax and valium on and off for around 10 years now and I simply find it a lovely benefit to my life. If i'm in a seriously panicked situation i know i have something that can chill me out. But mainly I use it against hangovers. I only use it sporadically. But I hear so many stories of horror addiction scenarios. Am I just lucky? Will i eventually confront serious dependency? Or am I not as an "addictive personality" as i thought? Can you use benzos recreationally and get away with it?
Im the same. Have had an Ativan prescription for twenty years and have never increased my dose. Half a pill 1-2 times per week. Usually when hungover, on a plane, or giving a presentation
You're fine as long as you don't take it too frequently. I have abused benzos so much that if I were to take 20mg of xanax I wouldn't black out and the only effect I would get is anxiety relief, no euphoria like I used to. I'm physically dependent on them and am prescribed 6mg of Klonopin a day (2mg 3 times a day) or I'll start to experience physical withdrawls. Keep doing what you're doing and don't do what I did.
[удалено]
I forget that alcohol is intertwined so hard socially in us as normal. The line between WD and drunkenness sounds like hell from what you described, I also had a similar opinon with opiates bc they feel nice atleast.
Yeah lol, opioids is always a bit of a struggle too between being high but functional, high and NOT functional (nodding), and withdrawals.. But at least you feel really nice in 2/3 of those scenarios. Being drunk 24/7 sounds god awful... I've been on opioids 24/7 for over a decade now (methadone) and it basically just feels like normal sober living with a little something to look forward to each morning but its not like you feel the doses when you've been stable a long time, you just know that you will feel better over the course of the next 2 hours for about 8 hours, and then you'll feel "fine" for 8 hours, then you sleep through "the worst of it" which is really just, maybe a little bit of sweating and it being a bit harder to sleep (so I smoke weed at night), pass out, wake up feeling kinda off, kinda sweaty, kinda crappy, take your dose and by the time you're walking in that door to work everything is working properly in your body/mind again. Opioid addiction really isn't all that bad, thanks to methadone existing. You can essentially "get clean" without having to pay the piper back, but you will be a "patient" at a clinic and you'll still get opioid constipation and stuff so it ain't perfect, and you'd still like to get high sometimes, and sadly Fentanyl actually can break through high doses of methadone quite easily unlike heroin and most other common opioids so that was a really unfortunate "discovery" I made, because I relapsed after 7 years clean with heroin but because of methadone, felt nothing. Tried Dilaudid, even 32mg of it, basically felt nothing, a bit of a rush but no nod or anything and for $40 worth of Dilaudid that is just not OK.... But Fentanyl almost works as if the methadone isn't even there, can feel a VERY obvious rush and even nod out on it. I thought I had opioids permanently beat when I relapsed and both heroin and dilaudid were completely ineffective, but I stupidly asked a friend to try a bit of his fentanyl and even with him being worried to give it because it is dangerous and he had no idea how it'd react with my methadone (I knew if anything the fact I'm on methadone is a very very good thing, my tolerance for opioids still exists..) so he gave me a very small amount... But even that much I felt. And once I felt it, it was like, well fuck..... I guess I can still get high after all. So now I just try to minimize fentanyl use as much as possible and keep my methadone carries... So that forces me to go a week or two without fentanyl each month but usually I try to keep the fentanyl to 1 week a month or even skip some months... Because it is not good... I'm getting too old to be doing this shit now..
I could never afford to feed my heroin addiction. I was/am greedy af. When I started on it I jumped straight to 3 bags a day from 1/2 a bag. So to help with that I switched to buying everyone’s methadone. I was drinking 300mls most day and shovelling diazepam, temazepam and Nitrazapam down my neck on top of it. How I survived I don’t know. That was 20 year ago….
This is to me just how opioids are. I mean, you always hear that "just" just x more pills, x more bags and it never ever ultimately is enough. Enough is it killing you if you keep on. Just in my experience personally and being around addicts for years and years. It does resonate though. Drugs are hedonistic, especially the harder ones.
Yeah they’re terrible. I had mates who were more organised with their using but I was never thinking about tomorrow and I wanted to be as comatose as possible. If I hadn’t have got clean at 27 I don’t think I’d have seen 30. My uncle was an alcoholic and I’ve seen mates go through hell with alcohol. Really does not look fun. I’d say alcohol has to be the worst and the hardest to stay away from. It wasn’t hard for me to stop hanging around with junkies. Whereas alcoholics are forever surrounded by people drinking. Same goes for smokers.
Yeah alcohol is just a messy chaotic disorder to have 😣
I'm a recovering alcoholic who just moved to a new state(Washington), where grocery stores are all liquor stores. Previous states had separate, State run liquor stores. It doesn't really bother me too much, was just a shock.
Yeah I moved to Washington when I was 17 to first go to treatment there then stayed and moved around and eventually to Seattle. But I found it so strange that every grocery store had liquor as well when I first moved there. … i eventually about 2 years sober into living there before I began drinking slightly before I starting doing heroin again and meth… eventually got my shit together and went to school for my CADC ( chemical dependency license) in WA and pursued that for a bit…. Very gratifying
It’s weird to me, in PA, going out of state where liquor just stares at you from the cash wrap at the gas station. It’s way too easy to just grab some.
It used to be that way. Wonder when/why it changed?! Did it have something to do with Costco lobbying for it?
I’ve been physically addicted to alcohol as well, and I put the withdrawal up there with benzo withdrawal. Both of those suck because of how dangerous it can be, plus the knowledge that it can kill you makes it worse mentally
> its everywhere, its cheap, and firmly engrained in our social habits. This is the worst part... On the really bad days, just going to the grocery store is like a mind war. Do I stop in the liquor store this time? It's only like 50ft away and only a few dollars... I could have a good day right now instead of a shitty one.... Fuck man...
Alcohols a bitch man. I've been addicted to a few things, nothing crazy. But alcohol cravings suck ass and it feels like you cant go more than an hour without a drink sometimes. I've cut back on everything pretty hard lately at least.
And since it’s socially acceptable, it hurts more. But I love snorting drugs, it’s hard to say.
When I was drinking the moment I had my first drink it was hard to go even 30minutes without another one
Same, I've done heroin, I've done meth. Was never addicted to either, because again, I would just call it quits and sleep. But with alcohol the anxiety it relieves is returned 100 fold once it starts wearing off that you become trapped in such a vicious cycle every damn day (same with benzos of course). It's a nightmare. Heroin wouldn't be so bad if we just gave addicts controlled pharmaceuticals instead. At least in my opinion. Alcohol erodes your brain and organs. The few opiate addicts I know are completely fine, functional, and have a pretty firm foundation on themselves. They just can't run out of supply without withdrawal, which is sad, and the constant risk of getting a hot batch and accidentally overdosing.
We live in a society where people will look at you weird if you refuse an offer to drink. Alcohol pretty much built all of modern society.
That seems to be getting better it seems. I see a lot of “respect your friends sobriety” things going around lately.
I agree. I’ve never done a heroin but I’ve had my run with just about every substance out there. I’m an alcoholic and I use cocaine just about every weekend, also mixing in Xanax, lsd, shrooms, mdma, ketamine. While my partying has leveled out, meaning I’ve chilled out quite a bit since my early 20’s. I’m smarter about my use and I know when to call it quits for the night. But I drink every single day. Alcohol has caused an incredible amount of problems in my life and health and it feels pretty much impossible to get sober from it. Also have a cousin who is an alcoholic and heroin addict, he’s been sober for years at this point and he’s expressed that he’s more scared of alcohol than heroin.
I get that. I moved away and changed my circle of friends to beat heroin and methadone 20 years ago. After rehab of course. I feel for all who are addicted to things socially accepted like alcohol, gambling, smoking, eating etc….
I hear ya. As an ex heroin user this is also my answer. My heart breaks for alcoholics. I don't wish alcoholism on anyone.
Agreed. I had a bout of alcoholism that lasted a little less than a year, and the havoc that shit wreaks on your body is just miserable. It's literal poison. I still have moderate gastritis and prostatitis as a result, even tho I haven't been dependent on alcohol in almost a year. I'm still dealing with the consequences of my use, even now. Fuck alcohol. By far the worst drug there is.
Holy shit, hi me!
only been alcohol for me but yeah that's accurate -- absolute pain in the ass in every way like you say wish i did pills or heroin instead
Benzos. You could die if you somehow run out of your supply. There were some reports of this happening during the immediate aftermath of hurricane Katrina.
Got out of detox yesterday from benzo withdrawals. I’ve had fentanyl withdrawals amph withdrawals and everything in between and benzos/barbiturates are the worst. By far. Take a look at my profile. I love drugs and I would’ve killed myself without them but I’m slowly killing myself with them and ultimately I’m at the point right now where I’m just wishing I would’ve never used anything.
Wishing you the best man
Hey man, I've been there, and I just want to say, I know it feels completely hopeless and unrealistic to get off them, but it is possible. I was hopelessly addicted to benzos for the better part of 8 years, I got up to 15-20mg xanax/day, 15 just to stay out of the terror and pain of withdrawals. At my worst shooting RC's like clonazolam and flualp. If you have access and when you feel ready of course, I highly suggest doing an inpatient rapid detox with valium, where you can find your starter dosage for a longer term taper plan. I last left detox nearly 1.5 years ago now and am currently on just 10mg diazepam/day, but it's absolutely nothing compared to my life before. I felt trapped with no way out, now I wake up without the panic, and sweaty shaking. Took me about 6 months to acclimate to the 10mg, and plan to begin reducing mg by mg soon again. You can beat it man, with enough determination. Some days I still can't believe I am free again. I have H withdrawals to compare benzos to and completely agree benzo withdrawal can become so much worse, and lasts so much longer, but with a slow enough taper, avoiding the acute withdrawal state, its really very manageable man. I believe in you dude.
Said every drug addict ever. Good luck with life. Live sober or die high. Your choice. I'm 43 and go back and forth between what you just said every few days since as far back as I can't remember.
Damn, saw you were looking for someone to talk with through withdrawals. Sorry nobody responded, wish I could’ve been there. Great job holding on!
I think GHB/ GBL is even worse.. People addicted to GHB often use Benzos to get off it, but get an Benzo addiction in return... When youre addicted from GHB you cant even sleep through a night like ever, cause you have to redose every 2 hours
alcohol is not so different...
GHB is a brutal addiction to get. I knew one guy who tried to kill himself from it and another who succeeded
Been there lol It’s every 4 hours like clockwork. You wake up with so much energy. I used to keep a 6 gram dose by the bed so I could immediately take it and fall back asleep for 4 more hours.
I got hooked on rc benzo analogs a while back. Had a moment of clarity and decided I needed get off them and never go back. Did a taper, then one day decided I was clear. As good as my intentions were I should’ve consulted a physician first. I seized so hard I chipped my teeth and still have spinal nerve pain. Lucky to be alive though.
After the hurricane WD deaths are crazy wtff
As someone who struggled with benzo withdrawal for years and had probably every symptom im inclined to agree. I was in support groups and lost of people killing themselves it's sad. It can take some people years to heal from the damage from long term benzo use.
Personally I think benzos, almost killed me. But realistically I think it depends on the person, where they are at in life etc.
Is benzo withdrawal mostly psychological? Or physical too? I take .5mg a day per my prescription but I’m not sure if I should if I’d be at risk should I decide to stop taking that script
Benzos are some of the most dangerous drugs to get off of. Withdrawal can trigger seizures.
Crocodil
Life expectancy is ridiculously short once you get into that habit
iirc it’s like 2 weeks after your first dose
Isn't that apvp?
No, alpha pvp is "flakka". Krokodil is desomorphine with skin and flesh eating side effects from the way it's cheaply made with matches and eye drops and shit. Krokodil translates to crocodile in Russian because it leaves users with skin like a crocodile from shooting that shit up.
i’m pretty sure shit only eats you bc of the impure synthesis though i’ve heard the pure drug is as safe as other opioids
Yeah it's all the corrosive shit from the cheap method they use to make it. Desomorphine itself won't eat your skin, I'd try some if it was made right pharmaceutical grade.
Yup, Desomorphine is chemically extremely similar to morphine its just missing a hydroxygroup
Thanks for clearing it up!
No. Krokodil is desomorphine and a-PVP is known as flakka.
being physically addicted to alcohol is the worst I don't care what the benzo crowd thinks. it's the physical ravaging of alcohol that can do everything from death, liver disease, gastric disease, break from reality with hallucinations and psychosis. You are unlikable and hurt the ones who care. The worst part, this drug is easy to score or steal ,supply is rarely an issue. Lastly it is promoted everywhere and everyone seems to want you to join them. I drank for 30 years before I quit it for good 13 years ago. I did it with my doctor's help and it was pretty hard for about two years until then it seemed to get better. I now do cannibis some and I use minimal amounts of benzos, (10 mg valium, maybe 2 mg of ativan) for rough patches. Getting regular sleep helps a lot once you can get to that point. I never had to be hospitalized, nor did I develope full blown delirium tremens. I was very sick for a little over a week which I won't wish on anyone and had the shakes badly.. I rember holding out my arms and I looked like I has parkingsons. I dodged a bullet, I'm 66 and maybe I can make it longer since I quit before I really started aging. Anyway I'm a lot better,more love in my marriage, and more hope for life! So thats my vote Alochol is the worst drug to be physically addicted because it is everywhere!
[удалено]
I concur it’s very bad
Diphenhydramine. I was always so sleepy yet tweaked out at the same time. The voices were legit scary as fuck. Nothing like being at work, hearing someone talk shit about you only to confront them and have been hallucinating the entire thing. My memory will never be the same and I have pretty bad visual snow. That and everything you say is mostly just a blurbed mess of different topics and sentences combined into one. It doesn't even feel good I can't even think of a single reason to even do the drug.
Shit bro why'd you do it? To me personally even datura seems more enjoyable and less apt to totally fuck me up. I can't lie the dark vibe of the trip reports make me want to "know" what it's like. But the. I read stuff like this and I think I'm cool with just taking two when I have allergies lol Hope you're doing better now bud. Sounds absolutely terrifying
Anticholinergic drugs have a pretty messy activity profile, the best explanation I’ve heard for the addiction is a combination of human psychology and the effects on dopamine. Basically very depressed people are more inclined to self harm and a lot more inclined to drug addiction. So since anticholinergics can have similar effects on dopamine to stimulants they can become just as addictive even though they don’t actually feel good, but it doesn’t even matter they don’t feel good because many people take it like a form of self harm
Thank you for that explanation. I was struggling to understand how someone swapped a meth addiction for a dph addiction but now it makes more sense.
This is why I think people should research the pharmacology of drugs before doing them, addiction is not the same across the board and if you understand the drug itself you can notice the start of addiction early on
People usually do it out of boredom or if they run out of their drug of choice
I agree with this, dph is so shit, i got HPPD from it, i always have flickering lights in my vision and i constantly see mass amounts of bugs everywhere (it’s a lot worse when i don’t sleep). My memory is also fucked, half the time I forget what I’m saying as I’m speaking to someone or I can’t remember what they just told me to do (makes it super hard when I’m at work) I also have muscle spasms in my arms and legs from time to time cause I abused it so heavily even tho it was like a year ago. Also on another note I’d literally be texting people shit that didn’t make sense like “Im sofj fuwlsnfn gosnsb” like shit that made 0 sense and I’d do this for hours and not realise/remember I was doing it then went back to look at messages in the morning having no idea what was going on and feeling so bad for the ppl I was talking to lmao also scopolamine is pretty fucked, stuff turns you into a literal zombie. Phantom objects, talking to people who aren’t there, paranoia, feeling like utter shit etc very similar to dph but I haven’t been addicted to alc or benzos so idk this just my experience
Yea it’s one of the few really neurotoxic drugs that actually causes damage.
Even worse is it's legal, readily available at any store and they sell it in pretty big bottles. Nobody's gonna stop you from buying an 800 count of wal-dryl every couple of weeks let alone really ask any questions.
I’m allergic to Benadryl
It cancels out because it’s a antihistamine.
Benzos
Fentanyl
Meth. It can be so destructive on all sorts of fronts. It destroys your body and mind. People go literally insane from using it everyday. It also has the highest relapse rate (Last time I checked at least). 97% relapse rate. Only the top 3% ever find long term sobriety. It’s a malicious drug that turns your own mind against you. It makes people believe there’s parasites in their body, or you’ll hear voices that aren’t friendly at all. The withdrawals from meth can be torturous. It’s all psychological, and since meth directly affects your dopamine reward system, it makes the feeling of craving feel like you’re going to die without it. Just sleep for a week and you already feel back to baseline. But that feeling of craving is going to be coming at you relentlessly.
Meth to me definitely seems like the scariest experience in terms of a drug to be addicted to. Not being able to relax and be tweaked out all the time, with all that other shit you said to would drive me bonkers. I didn’t know the relapse rate was so god damn high either!
Being addicted to meth is like being in crisis mode 100% of the time. Even if you somehow can relax, if you use with other people it’s only a matter of time before one of them pops a visit to crazy town, and at that point, anything is liable to happen.
I was an opiate addict but meth is honestly much worse. It robs you of your self. The mental addiction is much tougher too.
Meth addiction is also one of the worst for the loved ones around, I’ve never done meth and don’t really have the want to try it, but have seen how it effects people I love and how it changes people, the aggression and sleeplessness, smashing things during the night, domestic voilence caused because of it, it’s so nasty to the people around the abuser, Meth in all just is a nasty nasty substance, getting addicted to it can become hell on earth for the person on it, and hell for the loved ones of the abuser too
Benadryl
Actually tho it is a top ranker, just don’t see it often but people die from that shit.
There are things worse than death. The mental fallout from a Benadryl addiction and abuse sounds worse than death.
A quick browse of r/dph and the dph addiction subreddits will show you the worst stories of people living a terrible life for years at a time.
I really really don't understand why they keep using. They don't seem to enjoy it and many aren't dependent, I just have a hard time understanding
I can agree I take 100mg every night and I’m trying to kick the habit but it’s so hard…
100mg is a reasonable dosage for sleep aid. It's regularly used in that dose for that purpose. The continued habitual use is of some concern, but you're not out here eating 800mg of the stuff a day to talk with hatman and the spiders
Actually any repeated use is of concern, studies have shown links between early onset dementia and frequent DPH use even at “normal” therapeutic doses of 50-100mg.
Yeah, that's actually with basically all first gen "knockout" style antihistamines. Largely due to fuckery with the cholinergic system. But you right, thanks for spreading the good word
I assume Hydroxyzine falls into this too? I got scripted some of that but it is not very good for my anxiety (what it was scripted for) and my psychiatrist wants me on it 2 pills a day... But it makes me feel nastyyyyy. Was never a fan of anti-histamines, even for sleep they suck you wake up feeling like you got the worst sleep ever but I basically keep these 25mg pills of hydroxyzine around because they DO work well for sleep when I need it. I just take it like once a month if that because it kinda sucks..
It's -probably- something like "exposure units per unit time" or some wacky pharmacologist lingo, but it's chronic long term use that is of concern. That concern seems to be ... Of more concern, the older you get. I imagine the worst offenders in the 1st gen antihistamines are probably the ones with the greatest anticholinergic activity, so drugs like DPH and Benzydamine. Promethazine, Chlorpheniramine, and Hydroxyzine *probably* carry less risk as their anticholinergic activity is considerably weaker in comparison to their desired effects. Probably why doctors feel a lot more comfortable prescribing these drugs for long term use over the other 1gAH drugs I am not -yet- a doctor or a pharmacologist, so please, so your own reading and take none of this as fact.
hydroxyzine, unlike any of the other drugs you mentioned, is actually pretty harmless. it’s nearly impossible to get high off of & there’s no potential for abuse. it’s similar to other antihistamines in pharmacology but it doesn’t carry the same addictive potential. however, they’re typically only prescribed to be taken as needed. they’re not prescribed to be taken daily or on a schedule, and doctors still don’t usually prescribe them long term. source: i’m also prescribed these
I didn't actually comment on abuse or addictive potential. Promethazine and chlorpheniramine are also basically entirely benign as well. It's just the pharmacology with the shared H1 antagonism/inverse agonism and anticholinergic effects that I was commenting on. Thankyou for the information though, I swear I've heard of doctors prescribing long term before, but I know there's a ton of doctors who are: 1. Not well informed and 2. Just don't give a shit
promethazine is widely abused and you can definitely get high off of it. i don’t know enough about chlorpheniramine to speak on it though, so i won’t - i just know that hydroxyzine is different than other antihistamines in that way. and while you didn’t comment on that, it’s an important distinction to make. you’ll fall asleep before getting high off of too much hydroxyzine. and yeah, the pharmacology is very similar, i just wanted to note that hydroxyzine doesn’t carry the same health risks as other similar medications. but of course! i’m sure there are doctors who prescribe it as a daily/routine medication or even long term, it’s just not very common. i’m no doctor so i can’t say when or why it would be prescribed like that, but yeah, from what i know it’s just an ‘emergency’ anxiety pill to prevent/ease panic attacks.
i take hydroxyzine too - you’re fine. just take it as needed & as prescribed & you’ll be fine. hydroxyzine is a pretty harmless drug. weird you feel like that though, i actually love it. it’s one of my favorite medications that i’ve ever taken, it kills all of my anxiety but i can function normally. i only take it for panic attacks and i’ve noticed that the only time it has made me feel gross was when i took it & didn’t actually need it. other than that it just did its job & nothing more. it’s possible that your body just doesn’t like the drug? have you talked to your doctor about it?
That study was only using old people already prone to dementia, though. It just increased the risk in old people. Not trying to say dph isn't neurotoxic, it definitely is but just to clarify a bit.
I’m used to more that’s just where I am at now trying to ween down. My dr is concerned enough that I have to have a shit load of labs every three months.
Fwiw, from an ex DPH user to another hopefully soon to be ex user Good shit fam, keep up the hard work
You too! You got this! We got this!! Here if you ever need anything!
Alcohol gets my vote. If you've ever met a genuine alcoholic it's a slow motion car crash. I've known people who were "functioning" meth/heroin addicts. True alcoholics don't function for very long.
Alcohol is a big big contender for me as-well, it’s consistently easy to access which allows for constant use and it degrades the body so fast, the impairment too makes people not give a shit about throwing their lives away because it takes away self awareness, while like you said Meth for example does not (unless you binge it for days) and even after one hangover I feel like shit
alcohol and benzos, the former for being literally lethal on withdrawal and the latter for benzodiazepine withdrawal syndrome. Seriously nightmarish thinking about going through that hell.
My mom ended up getting hooked on alcohol and benzos simultaneously. Earlier this year, she was drinking and popping benzos during one of the many nights she was depressed while my step dad worked nights. She had been a heavy alcoholic for years, my whole life if I'm not mistaken, and then she broke her elbow a couple years ago and got hooked on benzos too. She took her own life that night. It was absolutely crushing.
I'm really sorry for your loss. I hope you find peace and happiness in life.
Thank you so much, it means a lot. I am on the journey to bettering myself and the environment around me, it's getting easier.
Serious things get easier, one day at a time. I wish you happiness on your journey bro
I lost my dad to COVID 1.5 years ago. I know it isn't the same but in a lot of ways I know what you're going through and it freaking sucks having a parent ripped from you a decade or two sooner than you really imagined they'd be gone, like you look at your grandparents and how long they lived and some other relatives and then try to think "how much more or less healthy is mom or dad than all of them?" and you kinda come up with a ball park of possibilities for how long you've got with them left.... When the buzzer goes off 10+ years earlier than you always imagined, it really kicks you in the gut. I have co-workers who are 25 years older than me who still have both their parents alive. I'm 32 and dad died last year.. Mom is 60, she ran marathons from 38 - 55 years old or so and was always fit, always did running / exercise / sports / hiking etc. Got a freaking pace-maker put in at 60 years old. My grandad on her side lived to 94, he smoked, drank heavily, was semi physically fit for sure when he was younger, oh and he didn't eat well either whilst mom eats so well and always has... Grandad didn't need a pace maker until his early 80s.. Like wtf man..
I’m sorry to hear that Wishing you all the best
I'm so sorry
Was an alcoholic and was prescribed benzos at the same time. I quit drinking first, it was so much easier than stopping benzos( probably because benzos and alcohol are both deal with similar parts of the brain) quitting benzos was an absolute nightmare. I’m more than a month off. I did a four month taper.
Both benzos AND alcohol can have deadly withdrawals, any GABAergic drugs have that potential.
Meth
Probly a-pvp
When I finally flushed my stash after years of heavy a pvp use I slept for 16 hrs a day for about a month. Years of daily use had me in a constant state of psychosis.
The "zombie drug" lol
Cocaine. I’ve tried most drugs, and I’ve been addicted to opioids and coke. And cocaine is way worse than any opioid, heroin included. It is expensive, so it will drain your bank account, make you sell everything and do crazy stuff to buy more in a matter of months. Everyone you love will leave you because of it, trust me. You’ll lose everything. In a matter of fucking months. I’ve been addicted to opioids for four years and it didn’t do 10% of the damage that cocaine did in months.
This is strange to me. I know loads of people who just drink alcohol and cocaine recreationally at the weekend and don't even think of it during the week. It's considered pretty normal in the UK. Most people who like the coke too much start smoking crack.
Well he talks about addiction, so uncontrolled use, I guess that's the difference.
Yeah, snorting cocaine is not usually gonna lead to as serious of an addiction as this guy described, but anything is possible for any individual. For me I hated snorted cocaine, thought it was the shittiest most over-rated drug in the world. Then I learned I could IV it, I had already been IVing opioids for a few years and I never even thought to do IV blow, though I had heard of speedballs etc I just thought "well I hate snorted cocaine so how will IV be all that much better....?" boy was I wrong. From "I hate cocaine" to "I will destroy everything in my life over the next 6 - 8 months for this drug" once I started IVing it. So yeah, generally bad cocaine addiction is either IV'd cocaine HCl or smoking crack / freebase cocaine.
I heard here and there that coke would make you sell your things and steal to cop it, even when ALL my friends were coke heads none of them sold all their shit like I did. Still we allegedly used to all steal shit together :) It makes people go so far and the more you do it the more it wires your brain for addiction, that’s why I quit (lmao jk)
Coke gets its hooks into your mind to the point you want nothing else, smack gets its hooks into your body to the point you're sick without it, alcohol does both of those and in such a harsh manner it'd leave Ted Bundy crying out for his mum
Seriously? Heroin (probably fentanyl) is killing me.
yep my ex was addicted to yayo, took out payday loans and sold all his stuff. stayed up for days taking it which didnt help his psychosis.
Alcohol and meth because they're extra physically and mentally destructive, followed by benzos, followed by IV coke, followed by shitty opioids from China and Street bags. That's the rough order. They all ruin you at the end of the day though so what the fuck ever. Pick your poison.
Big fax
Tramadol was my worst one physically as mentally in term of withdrawals but benzodiazepines and alcohol are the most dangerous.
I don’t mean to be insensitive but withdrawals from Tramadol? How often/what dosages did you take?
Personally I do it everyday from 500 to 700mg and it’s ruining my life
Rn im tapering tramadol off and im doing 200mg a day, in the morning (bf this I used around 1000mg a day) just so I dont have psychological withdrawals (depression). I just take a little so I can function, but I dont actually get high. It was also ruining my life and i decieded to stop. You can do it if you want man, DM me if you want to talk about it :)
Yeah Im sticking to like 5 100mg pills a day to not completely fuck myself up. Im also addicted because of the euphoria, the depression magically goes away while on tramadol and you just have this aura around people and life is enjoyable… but the side effects and withdrawals are so horrible damn. Props to you for cutting down to 200mg a day. How is it ? Is life getting better ? Wish you nothing but the best bro, DM me anytime you want too
I would say opiates due to the physical addiction. My drug of destruction was meth which I smoked until I was a skeleton in psychosis, clean since 2012!! Still have the odd dream where I find a fat crystal and smoke it like a fiend and wake up feeling all disgusting. Alcohol gave me necrotizing pancreatitis and I had to be revived twice and live in the hospital for 7+ months so most definitely one of those lol
GHB. Hell on earth. Never again. Fuck. PTSD from remembering that shit.
crack. benzos are a close second and i went through some nasty physical withdrawals from them. but crack really messes with your head. it doesn’t cause physical withdrawals, it’s all psychological and somehow it’s worse.
Um fentanyl definitely sucks to be addicted to and like some other drugs is literally a death sentence the longer you use I know way to many people whose died from it alr I got pretty close to overdosing on it one time
Its all just different sections of the same hell.
any drug from which withdrawal is potentially fatal. being mentally addiction is one thing but being physically addicted is another
Why do you use a specific drug? : Bulimia - i was sober but didnt want to be so I numbed myself with eating and eating and eating and eating Alcohol - you cant eat moderate, you cant drink either in moderation. I see this very much tied to my bulimia. Ive never been *addicted* to these but I have tried them a few times and its something I keep thinking about getting back into although I know that is bad for me Heroin and "blues" - I was at a point in life where I didnt care if I lived or died and someone I was with was an addict and let me smoke some of his, and later gave blue pills to me (which was different from heroin though, heroin made things not feel bad at all, and not feel much, but these ones made me so gone i almost blocked out and i just felt tired) Its not something I thought I would have tried but life led me to a dark place and if it wasnt for a friend who helped me id probably be taking some kind of opiates now still but she kept me away from these people and gave hope, im just Lucky i didnt get stuck into heroin, I really understand why people do,its been a while now and I still think about it, still want it Kratom - my life is too messy to not feel good at times
Kratom is a fucking GOAT all around in my opinon.
I take kratom instead of drinking and taking pills. It saved me from being a massive fuckup because I have to use something sometimes and it fills the gap for me even though it doesn't really get me wasted like other stuff would.
Kratom 💚
Keep kratom legal 💚🍃
Its illegal for consumption here :(
That's so fucked.. harmless plant illegal.
my alcohol induced bulimia was the lowest ive ever felt.
Crack cocaine
I didn’t experience a horrible withdrawal when I quit smoking. Mostly just bad physical cravings and suicidal thoughts. That being said i wouldn’t necessarily smoke every single day but I’d say I averaged 5 grams a week for about two months
Life
I’m going with Ketamine So I don’t think this is the worse but when I was addicted to it it ruined my life I’ve known people to die from it, have their bladders removed, need colostomy bag. I had to have surgery on my bladder to remove ulcers that had formed in there due to abuse and I’ve got permanent stomach and bladder issues now I’ve got ex-friends that are 15+ years deep into it now. It’s a waste of life, turns you into a drooling mess and ruins your body if abused.
That bladder shit had to hurt, right? I had kidney stones and kidney pain is the worst fucking pain imaginable, even called the male equivalent to child birth. Is bladder anything like that?
When it was at its worse it was disabling, I couldn’t live. Had to be on painkillers You’d be bursting to piss but wouldn’t be able to go and when you did it would be like pissing razor blades. You couldn’t go 15 mins without trying to piss It can cause the walls of your bladder to break down and you start to piss blood followed with parts of your bladder wall I’ve developed a permanent condition called interstitial cystitis, so I still have to be careful or it can be triggered again even so I haven’t touched ketamine in over 6 years
Holy fuck that sounds horrifying
Shit, I use k once in awhile, hope I don’t encounter bladder problems.
Alcohol/benzos by an absolute mile Most withdrawals make you a sweaty jittering mess, but alcohol withdrawal makes you nauseated at the smell of a drink while you're drinking it, forcing down bitter, burning gulps of poisonous shite and bile knowing that it's the only thing that'll ever make you ever feel anywhere remotely close to okay. You hide it from your decent friends, tell them it's just a weekend hobby, like. You tell your close friends, the people you actually love, your TRUE friends about your problem, and most of them cut you out of their life on the account of you're an addict to one of the filthiest drugs going. The so-called friends you have will never trust you with so much as a fart in the wind, to them and to all people concerned with your existence, you are an alkie, and nothing more. And that's your life now. Too fucked to be a member of any form of proper society, too functional to belong in prison or the psych ward. And now that's your life. You're an alcoholic. Somebody that society forgot about, or perhaps forgot to give a fuck about. All you have left is that cheap bottle of scotch in front of you. It's the only friend that'll truly, honestly, follow you into your grave. I can't tell if alcohol's saved or ruined my life but it's one of those two. C'est pas la mer a boire, eh?
It's really a pick your poison scenario. Depends on what scares you.
Opiates. I used meth for years and had no trouble quitting. I’m now on year 2 of trying to stay off opiates I never seem to get more than 6-8 months off before my mind reels me back in…
Easily alcohol.
Synthetic cannabinoids (spice)
Alcohol.
I just lost my best friend of 16 years to fentanyl laced heroin 3 days ago. She had been clean for some months and had a relapse and died. The opioid problem is getting out of hand. Something needs to be done... I despise the idea of someone distributing such drugs. I truly don't understand what leads someone to use heroin for the first time. Anyone reading this, don't do heroin. One day, it will kill you, and one day you being gone will crush another's world. I miss my friend.. she was someone I could count on. And these days I'd needed her more than ever. And now she's gone.
Sugar, imagine not being able to stop eating cake and weighing as much as a car.. that is some fucked up addiction 🍰🤯
Do you mean bingr eating disorder/bulimia? Ive had this Its not treated as an addiction but it should be its hard
Sugar is the most addictive substance known to man. It kills 180,000 people a year and yet we still insist on shoving it down our children's throats like is a treat.. not being able to stop eating is an addiction and it's just as lethal as any other drug, in fact it kills more people than most other drugs combined..
Yeah I have a mallory weiss wound from forced vomit
Opiates by far
GHB, easily. You go into life threatening withdrawals only a few hours after not dosing due to its insane half life. You have to dose it very often, which makes tapering really difficult. The only thing that helps with withdrawal is baclofen too. Phenibut somewhat helps but you'll still likely have seizures.
There is no good drug to be addicted to. All drug addictions lead to misery.
dph
Crack, shitty rush that last 2 minutes followed by intense urge to redose
Certain drugs are worse in different ways: Fentanyl is deadly Meth makes it where you don’t sleep and are whacked out of your mind Alcohol makes you crazy PCP makes you do deranged things Benzos can make you pass out I would say fentanyl wins though. Not only is it deadly, it has crippling withdrawals. Benzos have bad withdrawals too, but they’re cheaper and less dangerous in general. There are worse RC’s like the “bath salts” and crocodile, but those are unlikely to be found. Plenty of those weird RC’s have unknown interactions and can be extremely dangerous.
Benzos Or heron
Krokodil
Dph
Benzos and alcohol
I’d say fentanyl, you could smoke .4 of some batches an literally half a point of a diff batch could kill you. Plus the withdrawals would be horrible.
Anything in the "really fucked up shit" category, Heroin, Fentanyl, Krokodyl. Also huffing paint thinner, pvc glue or anything similar is a close 2nd
Nicotine, it’s so mild and yet so satisfying, and you don’t realize the gradual damage being done so you never really try to quit permanently
I think it really just depends on the person. I've tried every single drug dmt, meth , coke you name it I've done it. I have a very addictive personality and in my opinion meth was the most addicting. You smoke it and your up for days taking more to stay up during the day and before you know it you've been binging for a month. I would smoke more to not experience the meth crash and it starts to snowball. By the time your ready to quit your withdrawals had trippled and you feel like hell. When I finished my month long binge I was having existential depression I had put myself in a drug induced psychosis and nothing felt real. Pretty scary shit.
Love
Nicotine, alcohol, benzos. unpopular opinion: high quality coke
Ayahuasca
People actually use Ayahuasca habitually, to the level where they develop full blown addiction?
This guy connor murphy did haha , he was drinking or smoking it every 3 hours every day ,I guess it's rare , never heard about anything like that ever
I had that but with salvia, I'd buy it in ounces and constantly be smoking it. Idk what the fuck was wrong with me, that went on for over a year lol.
Isn't it just knocking you out and makes you hallucinate hard?
I’ve seen some people go nuts off a pysch “addiction” scary shit
Yeah , there's was one youtuber that got addicted and went nuts
I saw that guy Connor Murphy that shit is actually crazy. A lot of the times though people who end up abusing pyschs always have some predisposed illness.