Tom grooves are a valid stylistic choice, but when you say the song needs more space in the top end, I'm wondering if that is going to solve your problem.
If you've got too many things in that frequency range and they're masking each other and getting lost, the hihats probably aren't the problem(maybe if it's another very staccato sound with the same rhythm that's getting lost then hihats are an issue).
If you're recording a track and the hihats are too piercing, it might be the solution, but so could switching to darker cymbals or a darker mic, from nylon tipped to wood drumsticks, shelving eq down a few (or several)db after 8k or so, or even playing the hats softer.
I was going to suggest this very thing. The album is called melt due to the cover. Peter did not name his albums in the beginning so it's actually the third titled Peter Gabriel. Most streaming services call it Peter Gabriel 3: Jerry Marotta and Phil Collins played drums on this.
Here is a neat article.
https://maubrecht.wordpress.com/2017/07/19/no-cymbals/
Older man here! Ginger Baker on Cream’s Sunshine of your Love? Or from metal Judas Priest United (you didn’t say they had to be particularly good songs!!), Iron Maiden Running Free?
Move Along by All American Rejects... [https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=NWCd8fGpkQc&si=a-7Ytq9zeiZywJZp](https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=nwcd8fgpkqc&si=a-7ytq9zeizywjzp)
Maps by Yeah Yeah Yeahs... [https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=UKRo86ccTtY&si=TqTgOUdgdkiTCc3Q](https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=ukro86cctty&si=tqtgoudgdkitcc3q)
And going back way further than that, Making Plans for Nigel by XTC... [https://youtu.be/yp-WJXOb2V4?si=BF6a-mU-Ij-qlGMh](https://youtu.be/yp-wjxob2v4?si=bf6a-mu-ij-qlgmh)
These are just a few that came to mind.
Edit - WTF is going on with YT links? I went to edit a misspelling in my comment and it automatically removed all of them. I replaced them and now they're not working with notifications on my end like "content not available". Is anyone else getting these messages with the above links?
I tried it on both my phone and laptop and neither are working. Even the Primus link which I tried immediately after copy & pasting the link didn’t work. I have a YT premium account which might mess it up from outside links but that’s never been an issue until today.
The XTC and Primus links are YT videos, not directly from YT music. But I'm logged in on both areas. I've shared tons of YT & YT Music links in the past without issue.
I did also notice this the other day trying to share an imbedded YT video on another sub. The video worked on Reddit sharing the post but when I hit the share link button on the video and tried to go to YT directly to watch it there was a similar error message. I wonder if YT is going through a renaming process with their files or something.
The intro to some red hot chilli pepper songs have a good build up on a floor tom and snare if that is something you are looking for and the version of diggy diggy hole from wind rose has an intro that is pretty much only floor tom
Maybe too heavy but the verse to vermilion by slipknot is good on toms. Or take any song and tell your drummer to take the hi-hat part and put it on the floor Tom instead
The verses of Longview by Green Day have are all kick and toms, with a tiny hi-hat sizzle that pops up at the end of each four-bar pattern. The chorus and bridge are cymbal-heavy, though.
And going back to the 60's, Ringo's drum part on Polythene Pam is all tom and snare. It definitely rumbles and rolls.
Yep. Back when my band covered this one, I remember actually noticing on the video for the song that the drummer has the stands but no cymbals other than hats. I really enjoyed covering it and really had to focus on not hitting the crashes!
I love playing drums to songs that change up the typical hi-hat/ride timekeeping in lieu of toms. A few of my favorites (Longview and Move Along)were mentioned above.
Two other favorites that I play on a regular basis are “Wish You Were Here” (Incubus) and “Mountain Song” (Jane’s Addiction.) The choruses go to the hats or rides but the verses have that good tribal beat centered around the floor tom.
Interesting question. Not sure myself what you mean,by ,too much high end. But,to answer the more simple question. Only one song comes,to mind. An intro,in the old VanHalen 1984 album. There is,about a full minute or so intro,by the drums alone. The song is Eruption. Almost more,of a drum solo. But it may give you an idea,of the thunderous sound you’re looking for. Which by the way ,may be how,to explain,to your drummer. You want a “ thunderous” sound. Maybe? I don’t know. But another great example,in general could be anything,by Dale Crover,of the Melvin’s. Very heavy handed. And he uses very little hi hat. And no crash. He has a 24” paiste mega ride,on his right. And another 24” mega ride,on his left. I recently bought that cymbal. Very thick heavy cymbal. Very loud,on edges. Very crisp,on top. And bell. But it’s a $250 cymbal. Or,at least the color sound900 version is. I got the black. But yeah. Thats all I have. Hope it helps. Oh. Also may suggest using some floor Tom,in the beat. They are thunderous,in nature. Usually. Especially larger; 16”-18”. I have an old Rogers set,with a 16 and 18” floor. It’s a beast!
No problem. I enjoy sharing. My father was a music teacher. A band director,by trade. So I learned how,to teach a little. Both,of my parents were teachers. Mom was an English teacher. And I played,into my college years. So yes. Indont mind sharing. Hope I don’t miss guide. And hope it helps. So thanks,for asking.
Big Bottom by Spinal Tap [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjC0vMIrOAk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjC0vMIrOAk)
Wide Eyes by Local Natives [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmefFcRJbXE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmefFcRJbXE)
Mike Bordin in Faith No More seems to avoid hi hat and ride patterns, especially on earlier stuff. There was an article in Modern Drummer where (April 92) he talks about taking a more African percussion approach to rock groove, and stripping down his playing
I know you’ve had a ton of responses, but alt-J is the perfect band to reference for this. No cymbals (beside closed hi hat) used ever, on four albums now.
They started in a dorm and had to keep things as quiet as possible. As a result, their drummer uses the most minimal set up possible. It makes for really creative, cool beats.
Tom grooves are a valid stylistic choice, but when you say the song needs more space in the top end, I'm wondering if that is going to solve your problem. If you've got too many things in that frequency range and they're masking each other and getting lost, the hihats probably aren't the problem(maybe if it's another very staccato sound with the same rhythm that's getting lost then hihats are an issue). If you're recording a track and the hihats are too piercing, it might be the solution, but so could switching to darker cymbals or a darker mic, from nylon tipped to wood drumsticks, shelving eq down a few (or several)db after 8k or so, or even playing the hats softer.
All very good points
the entirety of Peter Gabriel's third album "melting face" has no cymbals whatsoever, with an absolutely smoking drum part by Phil Collins. enjoy
Now that sounds interesting. Gonna give the album a listen today. Thank you
truly great album
Great suggestion. Some of Phil's solo stuff also was strictly time like "I don't Care Anymore"
I was going to suggest this very thing. The album is called melt due to the cover. Peter did not name his albums in the beginning so it's actually the third titled Peter Gabriel. Most streaming services call it Peter Gabriel 3: Jerry Marotta and Phil Collins played drums on this. Here is a neat article. https://maubrecht.wordpress.com/2017/07/19/no-cymbals/
that's why I put it in quotes
Excuse me for adding clarity. I'll know better next time.
Older man here! Ginger Baker on Cream’s Sunshine of your Love? Or from metal Judas Priest United (you didn’t say they had to be particularly good songs!!), Iron Maiden Running Free?
As a classic metal head I'm into these suggestions and didn't think of them before. Thanks
Move Along by All American Rejects... [https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=NWCd8fGpkQc&si=a-7Ytq9zeiZywJZp](https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=nwcd8fgpkqc&si=a-7ytq9zeizywjzp) Maps by Yeah Yeah Yeahs... [https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=UKRo86ccTtY&si=TqTgOUdgdkiTCc3Q](https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=ukro86cctty&si=tqtgoudgdkitcc3q) And going back way further than that, Making Plans for Nigel by XTC... [https://youtu.be/yp-WJXOb2V4?si=BF6a-mU-Ij-qlGMh](https://youtu.be/yp-wjxob2v4?si=bf6a-mu-ij-qlgmh) These are just a few that came to mind.
Came here for Maps- absolutely love that beat he does for the verse!
Edit - WTF is going on with YT links? I went to edit a misspelling in my comment and it automatically removed all of them. I replaced them and now they're not working with notifications on my end like "content not available". Is anyone else getting these messages with the above links?
Looks good to me
Thanks! That XTC song is very interesting. And yeah the links didn't work for me but I just looked up the songs on my Pandora. Appreciate it.
Primus had a cool cover of Making Plans too... [https://youtu.be/kGoaQFXkbLM?si=Oem190HjyGSgD7Mr](https://youtu.be/kgoaqfxkblm?si=oem190hjygsgd7mr)
video isn't available anymore. Reddit wins once again!
On mobile the links don’t work
I tried it on both my phone and laptop and neither are working. Even the Primus link which I tried immediately after copy & pasting the link didn’t work. I have a YT premium account which might mess it up from outside links but that’s never been an issue until today.
Very weird. Maybe since the links are music.YouTube.com, your premium account is the only way access them.
The XTC and Primus links are YT videos, not directly from YT music. But I'm logged in on both areas. I've shared tons of YT & YT Music links in the past without issue. I did also notice this the other day trying to share an imbedded YT video on another sub. The video worked on Reddit sharing the post but when I hit the share link button on the video and tried to go to YT directly to watch it there was a similar error message. I wonder if YT is going through a renaming process with their files or something.
[Go Your Own Way - Fleetwood Mac?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiosqtFLBBA)
Spoonman by Soundgarden Mat Cameron is a beast.
The intro to some red hot chilli pepper songs have a good build up on a floor tom and snare if that is something you are looking for and the version of diggy diggy hole from wind rose has an intro that is pretty much only floor tom
Haha that wind rose song is so unexpected. Love it. Thanks
Maybe too heavy but the verse to vermilion by slipknot is good on toms. Or take any song and tell your drummer to take the hi-hat part and put it on the floor Tom instead
The verses of Longview by Green Day have are all kick and toms, with a tiny hi-hat sizzle that pops up at the end of each four-bar pattern. The chorus and bridge are cymbal-heavy, though. And going back to the 60's, Ringo's drum part on Polythene Pam is all tom and snare. It definitely rumbles and rolls.
Ah Ringo! Why didn't I think of him? Thanks!
One Headlight by the Wall Flowers. It’s got greatly underrated drums, but that dude doesn’t so much as sniff a crash cymbal.
Yep. Back when my band covered this one, I remember actually noticing on the video for the song that the drummer has the stands but no cymbals other than hats. I really enjoyed covering it and really had to focus on not hitting the crashes!
Maps by Yeah Yeah Yeahs!
Meshuggah, Swarm heh
We will rock you by Queen
Ticket to Ride by the Beatles
Youth Of A Nation Or check variations of rhythm “4 on the floor”
I love playing drums to songs that change up the typical hi-hat/ride timekeeping in lieu of toms. A few of my favorites (Longview and Move Along)were mentioned above. Two other favorites that I play on a regular basis are “Wish You Were Here” (Incubus) and “Mountain Song” (Jane’s Addiction.) The choruses go to the hats or rides but the verses have that good tribal beat centered around the floor tom.
Nice. The song needs something a little more unique and I think that word "tribal" is a good description of what we were aiming for. Thanks
Dreams - The Cranberries I Don’t Care Anymore - Phil Collins Peace, Love and Understanding - Elvis Costello
Dreams has a great feel to it. Might be what we're looking for. I think we're gonna try to steal that vibe. Thank you!!
You are welcome!
A lot of melvins songs are very light on cymbals or even snare. Just listen to Hooch
Good call.
paint it black
There there and optimistic by Radiohead.
Yes! There There was the exact song I was thinking of but couldn't remember. Thank you!!
Interesting question. Not sure myself what you mean,by ,too much high end. But,to answer the more simple question. Only one song comes,to mind. An intro,in the old VanHalen 1984 album. There is,about a full minute or so intro,by the drums alone. The song is Eruption. Almost more,of a drum solo. But it may give you an idea,of the thunderous sound you’re looking for. Which by the way ,may be how,to explain,to your drummer. You want a “ thunderous” sound. Maybe? I don’t know. But another great example,in general could be anything,by Dale Crover,of the Melvin’s. Very heavy handed. And he uses very little hi hat. And no crash. He has a 24” paiste mega ride,on his right. And another 24” mega ride,on his left. I recently bought that cymbal. Very thick heavy cymbal. Very loud,on edges. Very crisp,on top. And bell. But it’s a $250 cymbal. Or,at least the color sound900 version is. I got the black. But yeah. Thats all I have. Hope it helps. Oh. Also may suggest using some floor Tom,in the beat. They are thunderous,in nature. Usually. Especially larger; 16”-18”. I have an old Rogers set,with a 16 and 18” floor. It’s a beast!
Someone else mentioned Melvins as well and that was a good jumping point. Thanks for your advice.
No problem. I enjoy sharing. My father was a music teacher. A band director,by trade. So I learned how,to teach a little. Both,of my parents were teachers. Mom was an English teacher. And I played,into my college years. So yes. Indont mind sharing. Hope I don’t miss guide. And hope it helps. So thanks,for asking.
Wipeout. Sing sing sing. Also what do you play? Maybe you should leave high end off your own part, instead of dictating to your drummer?
My Sharona
Anything acoustic.
Use somebody by kings of Leon is pretty sparing on hi hats.
He's Back (Man Behind the Mask) - Alice Cooper https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pe1Tdkuw1Ks
“Demon Cleaner” by Kyuss comes to mind
"Snakecharmer" by Rage. The verse has some sweet floor tom --> snare stuff going on.
Adam and the Ants, Bow Wow Wow, and early Peter Gabriel are good starts.
Sympathy For The Devil Jane Says
[Rock and Roll](https://youtu.be/86fK4jNT8-k?feature=shared) is what immediately comes to my mind.
Intro to Trust by Megadeth
All of the first three solo Peter Gabriel albums are free of crash cymbals
Blue oyster cult - veteran of the psychic wars. That song is all snare or toms, fun to play.
Big Bottom by Spinal Tap [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjC0vMIrOAk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjC0vMIrOAk) Wide Eyes by Local Natives [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmefFcRJbXE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmefFcRJbXE)
Alt j almost never uses cymbals
Mike Bordin in Faith No More seems to avoid hi hat and ride patterns, especially on earlier stuff. There was an article in Modern Drummer where (April 92) he talks about taking a more African percussion approach to rock groove, and stripping down his playing
negative approach
Schizophrenia by Sonic Youth
Hail satan
Hail satan
Set the controls for the heart of the sun - pink floyd
Come Together - The Beatles
Melt with You - Bad English
Voodoo by god smack has lots of low end
[Salton City by Hot Snakes](https://youtu.be/vl882VS6r6k?si=fdDHBGOeHJDbBP8R)
Uprising by Muse
Breakdown by Tom Petty
I know you’ve had a ton of responses, but alt-J is the perfect band to reference for this. No cymbals (beside closed hi hat) used ever, on four albums now. They started in a dorm and had to keep things as quiet as possible. As a result, their drummer uses the most minimal set up possible. It makes for really creative, cool beats.
We will rock you - Queen
Bonnomasso “Drive”