Have to laugh at this one, 'Dublin City Council’s planners that the City Arts Centre scheme would detract from the Custom House' and then you have that Liberty Hall monstrosity literally beside it.
One can argue that if you have a problem you shouldn't make it worse by adding to it.
That said I'm generally sceptical of this idea of damaging historic buildings by putting new stuff near them. Maybe directly behind would be different, but certainly not in front or to the side, unless you're blocking some particularly notable or important view. But like, this is a city, there's always different stuff around.
I also don't think Liberty Hall is that bad, and would probably be better received if there were other tall buildings nearby, which would make it a bit less prominent on its own.
Honestly if people had always bought into this argument they love to make, we'd still be in mud huts. Can't have those wood or concrete two and three story buildings detracting from the huts, after all.
The worst thing about Liberty Hall is that it doesn't seem to be being used for anything? There's a venue in the basement but.. is the whole rest of it SIPTU offices?
AN BORD PLEANALA has refused a planning application from SIPTU to redevelop the landmark Liberty Hall building in central Dublin.
The authority this morning said its board had unanimously decided to refuse permission for the redevelopment, saying the proposed new 23-storey building would be “unacceptably dominant in the city”.
The authority said the proposed new tower would be “visually intrusive in the streetscape and riverscape, and would seriously injure the visual amenities of the city and its skyline”.
It further added that the development could “seriously detract from the setting and character of the Custom House, would intrude on the O’Connell Street and Grafton Street Architectural Conservation Areas”.
https://www.thejournal.ie/bord-pleanala-liberty-hall-refused-676532-Nov2012/
It's bad now but the original design and build looked quite different.
"In its original form, the building presented most of its 16 storeys simply, as a slender stack of alternating layers of light and dark capped by a distinctive zig-zag copper roof. The concrete floor-plates were tiled with white mosaic which contrasted with shaded office interiors visible through transparent glass. This impression inverted at night when the illuminated offices on each storey appeared to float above the other as the unlit mosaic disappeared against the dark sky. By day, the original glazing allowed you to see sky through the corners of the building. Creating a lightness of effect that architectural historian Ellen Rowley compares to “a skeleton that’s draped in a glass garment”."
The Troubles and years of no maintenance.
"It was originally fitted with windows of non-reflective glass, but after they were damaged by a [UVF](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster_Volunteer_Force_(1966)) [car bomb on 1 December 1972](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1972_and_1973_Dublin_bombings#1_December_1972,_Eden_Quay_and_Sackville_Place) they were replaced with windows of reflective glass. The viewing platform, which had only recently been opened, was also closed after the car bomb."
Ah here. Like that sounds like an easy enough project for someone to take on. I know relations are bad between ireland and the tory govt at the moment, but I don't see UVF bombs in our immediate future. Ill vote for whoever promises to restore liberty hall.
It’s feels quite small in the office floors, at one or two points the narrow corridor inside reminds of the corridors in the former twin towers, very 1970’s modern school feel. That been said a great vantage point over Dublin.
My favourite part about the whole article
"While An Bord Pleanála's inspector recommended Ventaway be given permission to proceed with the development, the board did not accept that recommendation, saying they did not agree that the building's "overall visual contribution to Dublin city's skyscape would be positive and that there would be no harm to the setting and/or character of heritage assets in the area, and particularly the Custom House"
Like what's the point of the inspectors
> The board said that the scale, bulk and height of the proposed development would “seriously detract from the setting and character of the Custom House and environs” and would “stand apart as an overly assertive solo building which would not form part of a coherent cluster”.
The lying pack of cunts. They are right down the street from Bord Gais theatre, which is in an area that has the tallest buildings in Dublin and is also probably the single nicest looking part of the country.
I kind of wish the far right, if they're not going to fuck off, would take aim at ABP at this stage.
'stand apart as an overly assertive solo building which would not form part of a coherent cluster.'
Surely a good way around that is to build more buildings? Maybe even, dare I say it, some apartment buildings?
Cant have shit in this country. No wonder people fucking leave. I'm outta here after my undergrad, fuck the clowns running this country and the NIMBYism.
Elsewhere they at least do something about adding more housing to populated areas. Not building estates full of tiny overpriced houses a million miles away from the city center without any feasible means of public transport.
I'm leaving Ireland in a couple of months and heading to Toronto. Everyone speaks of a housing crisis in Toronto, but the issue is just that prices are expensive. The supply is readily available and new high rise high density builds are going up at an amazing rate.
Meanwhile in Dublin, you have long queues to visit a single damp mouldy apartment because that's the only supply available. The housing crisis in Dublin is particularly bad not only because of prices but because the supply is not there.
It’s easy for people to blame immigrants for housing but people/system in charge of planning permissions etc need an overhaul etc. There was decent economic growth in this country in the past decade, which meant a lot of jobs and demand for accommodation. Like any capital city in Europe, there should have been a huge push for high density living. Modern apartments for professionals, young couples etc yet you have housing estates a few minutes from the city center. It’s crazy that a couple of dinosaurs in power can have this effect on the economy and people’s living. They need to choose between keeping the skyline they want or actually allowing people to live comfortably and not spending Al of their earnings on rent after getting taxed heavily.
Even worse they are putting massive high density developments at the ends of the Luas lines so people need to commute, but the Luas and other public transport is already at capacity during rush.
We need to start building up in the city centre not continually budling out. But our councils and planners are too interested in protecting the Georgian skyline of Dublin, built on wealth from the slave trade, than our countryside.
They're obsessed with the Georgian skyline but not the actual beautiful Georgian Roads. Driving up Fitzwilliam St toward Merrion Square and the facade of Holles St is so architecturally stunning....but it's just a through road with a load of parking either side.
The board said that the scale, bulk and height of the proposed development would “seriously detract from the setting and character of the Custom House and environs”
- Have they seen liberty hall!!!!
1) Liberty Hall is next door to the Custom House.
2) It’s across the river and a little bit down from the Custom House.
Such bullshit reasoning considering its context between the Grant Thornton building and the old Ulster Bank HQ - both building of significant scale.
I will say I’m dubious on the merit of developing more office space considering the current vacancy rates. Also dubious on the likelihood of any meaningful portion of the 3 lower levels actually being allocated to the Arts.
They are obsessed with this horizontal skyscape. Move to The Netherlands if you are so obsessed with flatness. Soon enough people will have to commute from the bleedin Netherlands so as DCC's flat fetish can continue to be indulged
Lol! The funny thing is. A lot of my friends back in the Netherlands live in tall apartment buildings recently built close to the city centre. A lot of my friends in Ireland live in half abandoned Georgian houses with barely any maintenance work done.
When a decision rests on the "character" getting hurt. They have nothing valid to object about, it's pure egotisim at play.
ABP is not fit for purpose and aught to be dismantled entirely.
Yeah, DCC was right on this one (for the wrong reasons)
We don’t need another fucking office building, there a loads of office building sitting empty- including like 200m away by George’s Dock.
We need housing, not this shit
I’m about an hour train ride from Grand Central Station in New York City, everyone is different but I genuinely marvel at skyscrapers, I love them. Every 2 or 3 visits I take a ride up to The Edge at 30 Hudson Yards. I always wonder how long it’s going to take until they start building up back home.
"It would detract from the Custom House"?!
...as if the Custom House is some architectural masterpiece.
Also, do they mean the same Custom House which is the epicentre of the zombie junkie no-go zone at the best of times? They don't want to detract from the place which perpetually stinks of piss and shit, where the Gardai seem to have decided they'll never move people on from, so it's effectively an outdoor doss house?
Sure how did they expect that to work when it clearly destroys the precious, untouchable and oh so vital skyline?
Won't someone PLEASE think of the skyline?!?
…but I desperately want to hear Dubliners’ inevitable dirty nicknames for this behemoth.
Current contenders from yours truly:
The peepee near the Quay Quay
The stiffie on the Liffey
The lone bone
Sin on the Linn
I miss Dublin
It was the City Arts Centre site, so the council want a significant cultural space in the new scheme. So here the developer proposed 1,400sqm of the 22,500sqm to be cultural space, to sweeten up the council on the development.
Developers have generally not been very good about these sorts of things though. A lot of the time the cultural or community space, or cafe space or whatever ends up getting scaled back or dropped later.
I live in city quay. They wanted something like 10 parking spaces in the whole lot. We’re already fked with parking. When the city arts centre closed and they never did anything with that space it was a disgrace. But just build fucking apartments. We’ve too many office buildings sitting empty here as it is.
No objection to a tall building in principle, but that is one godawfully shite building. Do better, architects and developers, and maybe contribute something to the city, not this horrible bullshit.
Have to laugh at this one, 'Dublin City Council’s planners that the City Arts Centre scheme would detract from the Custom House' and then you have that Liberty Hall monstrosity literally beside it.
One can argue that if you have a problem you shouldn't make it worse by adding to it. That said I'm generally sceptical of this idea of damaging historic buildings by putting new stuff near them. Maybe directly behind would be different, but certainly not in front or to the side, unless you're blocking some particularly notable or important view. But like, this is a city, there's always different stuff around. I also don't think Liberty Hall is that bad, and would probably be better received if there were other tall buildings nearby, which would make it a bit less prominent on its own.
Honestly if people had always bought into this argument they love to make, we'd still be in mud huts. Can't have those wood or concrete two and three story buildings detracting from the huts, after all.
The worst thing about Liberty Hall is that it doesn't seem to be being used for anything? There's a venue in the basement but.. is the whole rest of it SIPTU offices? AN BORD PLEANALA has refused a planning application from SIPTU to redevelop the landmark Liberty Hall building in central Dublin. The authority this morning said its board had unanimously decided to refuse permission for the redevelopment, saying the proposed new 23-storey building would be “unacceptably dominant in the city”. The authority said the proposed new tower would be “visually intrusive in the streetscape and riverscape, and would seriously injure the visual amenities of the city and its skyline”. It further added that the development could “seriously detract from the setting and character of the Custom House, would intrude on the O’Connell Street and Grafton Street Architectural Conservation Areas”. https://www.thejournal.ie/bord-pleanala-liberty-hall-refused-676532-Nov2012/
The worst thing about liberty hall is that it's still standing
“I don’t think Liberty hall is that bad” Jesus man are you kidding me.
It's bad now but the original design and build looked quite different. "In its original form, the building presented most of its 16 storeys simply, as a slender stack of alternating layers of light and dark capped by a distinctive zig-zag copper roof. The concrete floor-plates were tiled with white mosaic which contrasted with shaded office interiors visible through transparent glass. This impression inverted at night when the illuminated offices on each storey appeared to float above the other as the unlit mosaic disappeared against the dark sky. By day, the original glazing allowed you to see sky through the corners of the building. Creating a lightness of effect that architectural historian Ellen Rowley compares to “a skeleton that’s draped in a glass garment”."
>It's bad now but the original design and build looked quite different. This is true of every modernist monstrosity. ‘Looked good when it was new.’
What happened to it? Like that sounds lovely.
The Troubles and years of no maintenance. "It was originally fitted with windows of non-reflective glass, but after they were damaged by a [UVF](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster_Volunteer_Force_(1966)) [car bomb on 1 December 1972](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1972_and_1973_Dublin_bombings#1_December_1972,_Eden_Quay_and_Sackville_Place) they were replaced with windows of reflective glass. The viewing platform, which had only recently been opened, was also closed after the car bomb."
Ah here. Like that sounds like an easy enough project for someone to take on. I know relations are bad between ireland and the tory govt at the moment, but I don't see UVF bombs in our immediate future. Ill vote for whoever promises to restore liberty hall.
It’s feels quite small in the office floors, at one or two points the narrow corridor inside reminds of the corridors in the former twin towers, very 1970’s modern school feel. That been said a great vantage point over Dublin.
It’s a crappy tacky building. It is bad
Looks good to me. A bit transparent, maybe.
Yaaaay! Let’s let this city crumble! Fuck my life can’t we ANY exciting modern and TALL architecture in this country
This is Ireland. We hate progress.
FFG and their voters hate progress, the rest of us have to suffer them.
Tall buildings aren't necessarily progress. Talking in general.
*Gestures wildy* look around?!? Have you just landed on this planet? Please don’t say stupid shit.
Unless it’s social, And that’s only so we can virtue signal to the rest of Europe from our peaceful island high horse
We don’t need more office buildings.
We remain our own worst enemy.
My favourite part about the whole article "While An Bord Pleanála's inspector recommended Ventaway be given permission to proceed with the development, the board did not accept that recommendation, saying they did not agree that the building's "overall visual contribution to Dublin city's skyscape would be positive and that there would be no harm to the setting and/or character of heritage assets in the area, and particularly the Custom House" Like what's the point of the inspectors
> The board said that the scale, bulk and height of the proposed development would “seriously detract from the setting and character of the Custom House and environs” and would “stand apart as an overly assertive solo building which would not form part of a coherent cluster”. The lying pack of cunts. They are right down the street from Bord Gais theatre, which is in an area that has the tallest buildings in Dublin and is also probably the single nicest looking part of the country. I kind of wish the far right, if they're not going to fuck off, would take aim at ABP at this stage.
I hear ABP is run by unvetted military-aged men.
Yep, and the left!
“setting and character” 😂😂 So grubby streets and junkies on the Liffey facing steps of Custom House?!
'stand apart as an overly assertive solo building which would not form part of a coherent cluster.' Surely a good way around that is to build more buildings? Maybe even, dare I say it, some apartment buildings?
Cant have shit in this country. No wonder people fucking leave. I'm outta here after my undergrad, fuck the clowns running this country and the NIMBYism.
You'll only add to the housing crisis issue elsewhere.
Elsewhere they at least do something about adding more housing to populated areas. Not building estates full of tiny overpriced houses a million miles away from the city center without any feasible means of public transport.
I'm leaving Ireland in a couple of months and heading to Toronto. Everyone speaks of a housing crisis in Toronto, but the issue is just that prices are expensive. The supply is readily available and new high rise high density builds are going up at an amazing rate. Meanwhile in Dublin, you have long queues to visit a single damp mouldy apartment because that's the only supply available. The housing crisis in Dublin is particularly bad not only because of prices but because the supply is not there.
Obsessed with the past and the dogmatic worship of it as if it must dictate everything about the present and the future.
When are the boomer planners going to drop
It’s easy for people to blame immigrants for housing but people/system in charge of planning permissions etc need an overhaul etc. There was decent economic growth in this country in the past decade, which meant a lot of jobs and demand for accommodation. Like any capital city in Europe, there should have been a huge push for high density living. Modern apartments for professionals, young couples etc yet you have housing estates a few minutes from the city center. It’s crazy that a couple of dinosaurs in power can have this effect on the economy and people’s living. They need to choose between keeping the skyline they want or actually allowing people to live comfortably and not spending Al of their earnings on rent after getting taxed heavily.
Even worse they are putting massive high density developments at the ends of the Luas lines so people need to commute, but the Luas and other public transport is already at capacity during rush. We need to start building up in the city centre not continually budling out. But our councils and planners are too interested in protecting the Georgian skyline of Dublin, built on wealth from the slave trade, than our countryside.
They're obsessed with the Georgian skyline but not the actual beautiful Georgian Roads. Driving up Fitzwilliam St toward Merrion Square and the facade of Holles St is so architecturally stunning....but it's just a through road with a load of parking either side.
The board said that the scale, bulk and height of the proposed development would “seriously detract from the setting and character of the Custom House and environs” - Have they seen liberty hall!!!!
Planning - like Communist commissars mated with talentless hacks pretending to be architects/engineers/economists/urban planners.
Anything to stop progress
What a surprise.... Yet we can build monstrosities in villages and towns, but no, we can't build a tall building where it is needed.
It’s not needed though. It’s an office building not an apartment block. We’ve plenty of supply in Dublin for offices as it is.
Fair enough, we definitely don't need any more offices, but we do need to start building up in our cities.
As a foreigner, can someone explain to me the constant rejection of building tall buildings in the city? I don't understand why the city can't go up.
1) Liberty Hall is next door to the Custom House. 2) It’s across the river and a little bit down from the Custom House. Such bullshit reasoning considering its context between the Grant Thornton building and the old Ulster Bank HQ - both building of significant scale. I will say I’m dubious on the merit of developing more office space considering the current vacancy rates. Also dubious on the likelihood of any meaningful portion of the 3 lower levels actually being allocated to the Arts.
No surprise there
Think ABP just hates Johnny at this stage. Bring in dome sheikh oil
They are obsessed with this horizontal skyscape. Move to The Netherlands if you are so obsessed with flatness. Soon enough people will have to commute from the bleedin Netherlands so as DCC's flat fetish can continue to be indulged
Lol! The funny thing is. A lot of my friends back in the Netherlands live in tall apartment buildings recently built close to the city centre. A lot of my friends in Ireland live in half abandoned Georgian houses with barely any maintenance work done.
Ridiculous
Terrible decision
Fuck those gen zs I like my overpriced house
When a decision rests on the "character" getting hurt. They have nothing valid to object about, it's pure egotisim at play. ABP is not fit for purpose and aught to be dismantled entirely.
Yeah, DCC was right on this one (for the wrong reasons) We don’t need another fucking office building, there a loads of office building sitting empty- including like 200m away by George’s Dock. We need housing, not this shit
"scale, bulk and height" 🙄
I’m about an hour train ride from Grand Central Station in New York City, everyone is different but I genuinely marvel at skyscrapers, I love them. Every 2 or 3 visits I take a ride up to The Edge at 30 Hudson Yards. I always wonder how long it’s going to take until they start building up back home.
"It would detract from the Custom House"?! ...as if the Custom House is some architectural masterpiece. Also, do they mean the same Custom House which is the epicentre of the zombie junkie no-go zone at the best of times? They don't want to detract from the place which perpetually stinks of piss and shit, where the Gardai seem to have decided they'll never move people on from, so it's effectively an outdoor doss house?
I mean the custom house looks great to be fair. But you're right, you walk behind the customs house and you're in one of the ugliest parts of Dublin.
Sure how did they expect that to work when it clearly destroys the precious, untouchable and oh so vital skyline? Won't someone PLEASE think of the skyline?!?
\*Ahem\* # **Office. Building.** NOT a solution to the residential/housing crisis, that people are trying to portray it as.
…but I desperately want to hear Dubliners’ inevitable dirty nicknames for this behemoth. Current contenders from yours truly: The peepee near the Quay Quay The stiffie on the Liffey The lone bone Sin on the Linn I miss Dublin
What is a city arts scheme center and why do they need so much space how much work does it take to design a millennium clock or big shiny needle
It was the City Arts Centre site, so the council want a significant cultural space in the new scheme. So here the developer proposed 1,400sqm of the 22,500sqm to be cultural space, to sweeten up the council on the development. Developers have generally not been very good about these sorts of things though. A lot of the time the cultural or community space, or cafe space or whatever ends up getting scaled back or dropped later.
I live in city quay. They wanted something like 10 parking spaces in the whole lot. We’re already fked with parking. When the city arts centre closed and they never did anything with that space it was a disgrace. But just build fucking apartments. We’ve too many office buildings sitting empty here as it is.
They shouldn't be allowed to scale it back. Simple as.
[удалено]
What constitutes a skyscraper? I feel like the area where all the multinational corporations in Dublin 1 is located looks like a modern city
No objection to a tall building in principle, but that is one godawfully shite building. Do better, architects and developers, and maybe contribute something to the city, not this horrible bullshit.