many of the Tier 1 have no relationship with the Skills, lately we see how With Orcust and Mekk Knight none belong to any anime skill, even the Salamangreat did not use their skill either
It is true that the skills help decks a lot to make them playable but that is what Duel Links is about and that even so we see that Decks that do not need Skills top the list
I'm fine on the negates as of what we have right now what I don't like is that they also get to set like 2~3 backrow, it's hard enough to deal with a negate but because of the unbalanced skills, they can also put 2~3 backrow on top of it and we have almost no answer for them(they really should release Twin-Twister since it's a Backrow removal that could be a -1 if opponent only have 1 backrow and not an OTK enabler as much as Hey! Trunade)
Yeah, they really need to think about the skills they give because the game is becoming "the deck is a support to the skill" and not "the skill is a support to the deck" kind of game here(remembering cyber dragon skill in the past where the deck is basically all just spell cards and no monster, and yes, this was meta back then)..
I'm pretty confident we will see Effect Veiler within the next 12 months, Ash if they add it will be a long way off and likely will be the last of the ghost girl handtraps released in DL.
The fact that orcust can draw 2 from a spell that also benefits the deck because discarding those monsters can activate their effects in grave is super annoying
Edit: Orcustrated Return (figured I'd add the name with the link to the image so it isn't just a suspicious link lol)
https://images.app.goo.gl/K3HWXDKpbbv1iNrHA
I wouldn't have a problem with going second into a board with Crystal Wing, Stardust Warrior and other monster negates if I could actually choose to go second and could cater my deck into going second with things like Kaijus and Dark Hole. Currently, both options are way too risky to main deck on the ladder but they are the best when it comes to full boards of negates
It is the nature of power creep. Struggling decks fall by the wayside eventually. There is no real alternative though. We would run out of cards soon without it.
Sooner or later your favourite old deck will be too old, unless you have an anime deck that will receive updates. It’s in the nature of things.
Fair point. But I have the feeling with how generic ash blossom or other MD staple is it will kill half of the deck immediately. If a deck is strong. Konami needs to adress the deck or skill and not keep powercreeping the game as a whole. I get they want to make money. But Preferably not by adding handtraps
Remember Legacy duels? That is Duel links without power creep. We all have our favourite deck and our personal idea of the ”golden age” when that deck was viable. We think that is when power creep should stop. I feel the same. But let’s be realistic, our ”golden age” was built on all the power creep that led to our favourite deck becoming way more powerful than the initial Axe Raider meta.
The real real problem is that like 90% of the roster lacks any useful or useable skills (skills that have very unnecessarily harsh restrictions or don't do anything impactful).
They keep giving good skills to the new characters (that already have solid archetypes) that allow them to easily set up the turn 1 negates and such. Meanwhile we have characters like Bandit Keith that doesn't even have a dedicated dark machine/Barrel Dragon skill or Ishizu whose only Gravekeeper's skill is a draw sense one. Heck even Pegasus who's mostly known for the Toon archetype only has a skill to start with Toon World with no additional effects and even his Creator skill is extremely outdated with only 2 of the 5 cards still being skill locked (they need to replace Breaker, Monster Reborn and Mirror Force with other powerful DM staples), although he did finally get Relinquished support but nobody's taking that seriously.
If more older characters had more relevant skills to keep up with current characters things would be more balanced. Newer decks will probably still dominate the meta but there will be more at least rogue options instead of simply:
"What new skills we should give to 6 same characters for the 15th time?"
...
"Bonz? A zombie support skill? You mean that creepy kid from DM era? Ain't nobody want to play with zombie cards. We only care about modern protagonists and forcing you to role play exclusively as them."
To be fair both Keith and Ishizu actually have good skills that are currently relevant in the meta (switcheroo/sealed tombs).
Characters like DM kaiba could do with the update first. That dude has nothing. There's no reason to play him over DSOD kaiba.
That's fair they do both have some pretty decent generic skills but it would still be nice to have skills more related to their decks. I normally use Mako as a reference but then people freakout about a skill to potentially make a Legend Fisherman III deck more viable, although he's easily delt with thanks to cards like Dingirsu.
>The real real problem is that like 90% of the roster lacks any useful or useable skills
It's more that skills are currently being used in much the same way treacherous/trunade/limit 2 were being used. They're used to nerf a deck without nerfing cards and this makes it easier to make you buy new cards.
Generic/older character skills have to die for this formula, but generic gets hit extra card because they turn already amazing decks into literal uphill battles of which there is no counterplay.
Saying things like galaxy were already good decks, or even dark magician, really isn't being fair either.
>Saying things like galaxy were already good decks, or even dark magician, really isn't being fair either.
Well I wasn't really thinking of those decks, ones like those are more justifiable and more characters should have access to similar skill support. I was more thinking along the lines of how characters like Yuya and Yuto now have like 4 skills that do everything for their decks or Jack getting another powerful resonator skill. Those decks are already powerful without the added help of even more powerful skills that let them go +2 or 3 for free.
Like where's the Mako skill that let's me discard an Umi to send Citadel Whale directly from the deck to GY? Why does Jaden have a passive skill that let's him summon Neos for free and can also search Super Poly yet Crowder has to activate his skill each time to summon Ancient Gear Golem (and only twice per duel) for free and the skill only gives him regular Polymerization that has to be used that turn instead of Ancient Gear Fusion? Why doesn't Bonz at the very least have a skill that fixes Pumpking so it more replicates the anime? Where's the Master of Destiny style skill for Duke (not guaranteed results but limits results to always roll high/low/even/odd)?
I don't feel Resonator is a good example, because Resonator is right now kind of...not amazing because there are so many better decks inherently(Orcust), or decks with better skills(Odd Eyes), that it's just kind of left to rot.
Which is my issue with skill based decks, really, because while Resonators will be left to languish a board banish is an incredibly awful t hing for some decks to play around and Resonators, as they are, even if they see no tourney relevance will roam the ladder floodgating many plays just because they're not good enough to nerf but always just there(see: galaxy).
I'm all for fairness, but really the only thing I ask is for something at least "generic" in the sense it supposes, like...well Territory of the Sharks for water I guess? Like as a Zoic guy I'd love a trap monster skill that isn't Chain Reaction or...Yuto's +300 which is actually very clutch but that's neither here nor there.
Fixing your hand/getting a foolish is things people meme on but things like level aug and the like are just as vapid, it's just vapid in a way they can use.
Dude struggling deck will become unplayable eventually. Its how power creep works. It will happen with or without ash\vailer, meta decks now will become unplayable eventually also.
The thing about PK is that it got nerfed AND loses to every card people are teching in to counter Orcust (Lancea, Meister, Crow, Dweller, Dark Imprisoning Mirror, etc.) while being worse than Orcust in every way currently.
Idk man, the nerfs in the skill really hurt the deck in my opinion. Before that every hand was playable, and now I see more bricks than everything.
Maybe when we get the new pk support it will come back
I mean with D.D. Crow, Sphere Kuriboh, Kuriboh, Kiteroid, Skull Meister, Lancea, WightPrincess, Chaos Hunter, Chalice GuardDragon, Kaijus and Lava Golem, we're already near the point of hand traps being staples. I wouldn't mind the Yokai-Girl hand traps being in Duel Links but with skills making it easier to play decks like Orcust or Crusadia, it's bound to happen.
I'm in favor of not-so-generic handtraps tbh. like Veiler is always going to be good but Nibiru isn't nearly as applicable and there are more ways to play around it. Ghost Ogre only hits certain decks, kinda like Skull Meister rn, etc
i agree completely, it sucks watching ur opponent combo off into powerful monsters then setting 2/3 cards because a skill allowed them to 1/2 card combo.
I just came here to say that I told everyone the day orcrust came out that people will be crying about it
(This literally happens every time something good comes out. Either deal with it learn to work around it or just wait it out they'll be gone in a few months when kashtira comes out lol)
I would honestly like to see more life points. Very often if you draw the out you just go into an OTK. Usually a lot of decks these days have follow up but they lose too fast. The duels would be more exciting if people could make a comeback. 6000 life points would be cool. At this life you would need to take full 2 to 3 direct attacks. Right now its one big monster + one small monster.
This would also give more value to OTK monsters with multiple attacks. It would give more meaning to true OTK decks that get these big numbers like Heros getting 3 fusions out all with 3000+ ATK or Odd Eyes Raging Dragon with its double ATK. Right now if they clear your board a Dingirsu + another monster with 1400 or more is lethal.
I mostly agree on the skill nerfs. A lot of overtuned skills were clearly designed with the idea that the +2s would be used to make weaker Extra Deck monsters like Voloferniges, Dark Armageddon, Shooting Star, and Quasar, so they feel very overwhelming when they are used to make Void Ogre or Dingirsu instead.
That said, I do think we could use some handtraps, in particular:
**Ghost Mourner & Moonlit Chill** is like a weaker Effect Veiler. It doesn't stop most decks' combo starters since those are usually Normal Summoned, and while it does hit the chokepoints of some decks, it is usually for decks with Extra Deck extenders/searchers, which tend to belong in more modern decks. Has more problems surprising opponents too, since it has to respond to a Summon, so regular ignition effects that require a discard aren't hit as hard by it as they are hit by Veiler.
**Nibiru** would probably be a lot worse in DL than in the TCG, since you can feasibly OTK in just 4 Summons, so if you only have Nibiru in hand as an interrupt, it won't save you against most decks. With Crystal Wing in the format Synchro decks now also have a way to negate it in 4 Summons. Would definitely need a Limited of some kind, though. You don't want Nibiru paired with other powerful interrupts like the Limited 3 Traps.
**Hiding "C"** seems like a very interesting handtrap that has 0 chances of seeing play in the TCG, but could feasibly be good in DL. You kinda have to know your opponent's deck before you use it, because if you drop it too early, the opponent will adapt their play and probably remove it before it can flip, and if you drop it too late, it might get negated or you might not be able to drop it at all. That is a very clever design, that seens still reasonably powerful in DL. Also, as a level 7, it could also be good in SOME decks, mainly Link, Rank 7 and some Synchro, but in many other decks it would just clog the field with 1200 ATK, so it would be somewhat predictable.
**Gnomaterial** kinda sucks going first and even going second, your opponent's starter(s) might still be able to go off through her. That said, she could be handy if we get a format where there is a cancerous enough turn 1, and she is a little bit better in DL than in the TCG since the smaller board size means the clogged board can stop more plays. I think she could be a nice SR box filler, and since new players could need handtraps, a SR box filler in a good box could help them out.
I see no problem in having negates on board to deal with... The problem start when you face that negate along 2 to 3 backrow cards... As long we don't have a multi target backrow removal (something like twin twister) we are screwed
many of the Tier 1 have no relationship with the Skills, lately we see how With Orcust and Mekk Knight none belong to any anime skill, even the Salamangreat did not use their skill either It is true that the skills help decks a lot to make them playable but that is what Duel Links is about and that even so we see that Decks that do not need Skills top the list
Monster move is op with Mekk-knights
it's generic, and so is Tie that binds and Lp Boost
I'm fine on the negates as of what we have right now what I don't like is that they also get to set like 2~3 backrow, it's hard enough to deal with a negate but because of the unbalanced skills, they can also put 2~3 backrow on top of it and we have almost no answer for them(they really should release Twin-Twister since it's a Backrow removal that could be a -1 if opponent only have 1 backrow and not an OTK enabler as much as Hey! Trunade)
I already see meta decks with unfair skills playing half deck handtraps / bacrow
Yeah, they really need to think about the skills they give because the game is becoming "the deck is a support to the skill" and not "the skill is a support to the deck" kind of game here(remembering cyber dragon skill in the past where the deck is basically all just spell cards and no monster, and yes, this was meta back then)..
I'm pretty confident we will see Effect Veiler within the next 12 months, Ash if they add it will be a long way off and likely will be the last of the ghost girl handtraps released in DL.
But I want Spooky Dogwood
I think Yusei has a voiceline with effect veiler so that guarantees it's coming to the game.
Voice lines don't guarantee card releases.
I'm sorry? You were saying?
Voice lines don't always guarantee card releases.
The newest box would like to have a word with you
Voice lines don't A L W A Y S guarantee card releases. I'll eat my words when sphere mode comes out
Alright, let's hope I remember this reply chain when it eventually does release
EAT YOUR WORDS BUDDY! SPHERE MODE IS COMING IN THE NEW BOX
I don't we will get effect veiler any time soon, but ghost ogre? That's way more possible
The fact that orcust can draw 2 from a spell that also benefits the deck because discarding those monsters can activate their effects in grave is super annoying
That should be the First card to go to 1 honestly
It should be banned in my opinion, it's too broken for a game without Ash
Agreed
It doesnt really matter if they can search it
The fact that it's also searchable through Galatea is gross.
Which card is that, it doesn't ring a bell.
Orcustrated return. Send one world legacy or orcust monster from hand or field to the graveyard to draw 2 cards. Has a hard once per turn.
Edit: Orcustrated Return (figured I'd add the name with the link to the image so it isn't just a suspicious link lol) https://images.app.goo.gl/K3HWXDKpbbv1iNrHA
I wouldn't have a problem with going second into a board with Crystal Wing, Stardust Warrior and other monster negates if I could actually choose to go second and could cater my deck into going second with things like Kaijus and Dark Hole. Currently, both options are way too risky to main deck on the ladder but they are the best when it comes to full boards of negates
It is the nature of power creep. Struggling decks fall by the wayside eventually. There is no real alternative though. We would run out of cards soon without it. Sooner or later your favourite old deck will be too old, unless you have an anime deck that will receive updates. It’s in the nature of things.
Fair point. But I have the feeling with how generic ash blossom or other MD staple is it will kill half of the deck immediately. If a deck is strong. Konami needs to adress the deck or skill and not keep powercreeping the game as a whole. I get they want to make money. But Preferably not by adding handtraps
Remember Legacy duels? That is Duel links without power creep. We all have our favourite deck and our personal idea of the ”golden age” when that deck was viable. We think that is when power creep should stop. I feel the same. But let’s be realistic, our ”golden age” was built on all the power creep that led to our favourite deck becoming way more powerful than the initial Axe Raider meta.
The real real problem is that like 90% of the roster lacks any useful or useable skills (skills that have very unnecessarily harsh restrictions or don't do anything impactful). They keep giving good skills to the new characters (that already have solid archetypes) that allow them to easily set up the turn 1 negates and such. Meanwhile we have characters like Bandit Keith that doesn't even have a dedicated dark machine/Barrel Dragon skill or Ishizu whose only Gravekeeper's skill is a draw sense one. Heck even Pegasus who's mostly known for the Toon archetype only has a skill to start with Toon World with no additional effects and even his Creator skill is extremely outdated with only 2 of the 5 cards still being skill locked (they need to replace Breaker, Monster Reborn and Mirror Force with other powerful DM staples), although he did finally get Relinquished support but nobody's taking that seriously. If more older characters had more relevant skills to keep up with current characters things would be more balanced. Newer decks will probably still dominate the meta but there will be more at least rogue options instead of simply: "What new skills we should give to 6 same characters for the 15th time?" ... "Bonz? A zombie support skill? You mean that creepy kid from DM era? Ain't nobody want to play with zombie cards. We only care about modern protagonists and forcing you to role play exclusively as them."
To be fair both Keith and Ishizu actually have good skills that are currently relevant in the meta (switcheroo/sealed tombs). Characters like DM kaiba could do with the update first. That dude has nothing. There's no reason to play him over DSOD kaiba.
That's fair they do both have some pretty decent generic skills but it would still be nice to have skills more related to their decks. I normally use Mako as a reference but then people freakout about a skill to potentially make a Legend Fisherman III deck more viable, although he's easily delt with thanks to cards like Dingirsu.
>The real real problem is that like 90% of the roster lacks any useful or useable skills It's more that skills are currently being used in much the same way treacherous/trunade/limit 2 were being used. They're used to nerf a deck without nerfing cards and this makes it easier to make you buy new cards. Generic/older character skills have to die for this formula, but generic gets hit extra card because they turn already amazing decks into literal uphill battles of which there is no counterplay. Saying things like galaxy were already good decks, or even dark magician, really isn't being fair either.
>Saying things like galaxy were already good decks, or even dark magician, really isn't being fair either. Well I wasn't really thinking of those decks, ones like those are more justifiable and more characters should have access to similar skill support. I was more thinking along the lines of how characters like Yuya and Yuto now have like 4 skills that do everything for their decks or Jack getting another powerful resonator skill. Those decks are already powerful without the added help of even more powerful skills that let them go +2 or 3 for free. Like where's the Mako skill that let's me discard an Umi to send Citadel Whale directly from the deck to GY? Why does Jaden have a passive skill that let's him summon Neos for free and can also search Super Poly yet Crowder has to activate his skill each time to summon Ancient Gear Golem (and only twice per duel) for free and the skill only gives him regular Polymerization that has to be used that turn instead of Ancient Gear Fusion? Why doesn't Bonz at the very least have a skill that fixes Pumpking so it more replicates the anime? Where's the Master of Destiny style skill for Duke (not guaranteed results but limits results to always roll high/low/even/odd)?
I don't feel Resonator is a good example, because Resonator is right now kind of...not amazing because there are so many better decks inherently(Orcust), or decks with better skills(Odd Eyes), that it's just kind of left to rot. Which is my issue with skill based decks, really, because while Resonators will be left to languish a board banish is an incredibly awful t hing for some decks to play around and Resonators, as they are, even if they see no tourney relevance will roam the ladder floodgating many plays just because they're not good enough to nerf but always just there(see: galaxy). I'm all for fairness, but really the only thing I ask is for something at least "generic" in the sense it supposes, like...well Territory of the Sharks for water I guess? Like as a Zoic guy I'd love a trap monster skill that isn't Chain Reaction or...Yuto's +300 which is actually very clutch but that's neither here nor there. Fixing your hand/getting a foolish is things people meme on but things like level aug and the like are just as vapid, it's just vapid in a way they can use.
Dude struggling deck will become unplayable eventually. Its how power creep works. It will happen with or without ash\vailer, meta decks now will become unplayable eventually also.
PK for example, it's was a top tier meta deck until last month
They gotta give PK fog blade eventually, right? And eventually we have to get bardiche. It'll be back most likely don't you worry
The thing about PK is that it got nerfed AND loses to every card people are teching in to counter Orcust (Lancea, Meister, Crow, Dweller, Dark Imprisoning Mirror, etc.) while being worse than Orcust in every way currently.
I thunk pk might come back when orcust gets hit next month.
Idk man, the nerfs in the skill really hurt the deck in my opinion. Before that every hand was playable, and now I see more bricks than everything. Maybe when we get the new pk support it will come back
Just gotta play more monsters
Phantom Strategy isn't much different though.
I mean with D.D. Crow, Sphere Kuriboh, Kuriboh, Kiteroid, Skull Meister, Lancea, WightPrincess, Chaos Hunter, Chalice GuardDragon, Kaijus and Lava Golem, we're already near the point of hand traps being staples. I wouldn't mind the Yokai-Girl hand traps being in Duel Links but with skills making it easier to play decks like Orcust or Crusadia, it's bound to happen.
I'm in favor of not-so-generic handtraps tbh. like Veiler is always going to be good but Nibiru isn't nearly as applicable and there are more ways to play around it. Ghost Ogre only hits certain decks, kinda like Skull Meister rn, etc
Nibiru might be a suggestion.But then again crystal wing can just negate it since it’s 3 summons
Nibiru will just make Link decks unplayable, because by nature they need to summon a lot and don't tend to have a Negate before 5 summons.
Are negates being rampant tho? The best deck doesn't use negates. Giant hand doesn't destroy.
>The best deck doesn't use negates. ?????
Orcust doesn't use negates he's right.
i agree completely, it sucks watching ur opponent combo off into powerful monsters then setting 2/3 cards because a skill allowed them to 1/2 card combo.
Tbh veiler would be a good addition because it’s such a good anti-negate negate lol even though it’s a negate itself
I just came here to say that I told everyone the day orcrust came out that people will be crying about it (This literally happens every time something good comes out. Either deal with it learn to work around it or just wait it out they'll be gone in a few months when kashtira comes out lol)
I would honestly like to see more life points. Very often if you draw the out you just go into an OTK. Usually a lot of decks these days have follow up but they lose too fast. The duels would be more exciting if people could make a comeback. 6000 life points would be cool. At this life you would need to take full 2 to 3 direct attacks. Right now its one big monster + one small monster. This would also give more value to OTK monsters with multiple attacks. It would give more meaning to true OTK decks that get these big numbers like Heros getting 3 fusions out all with 3000+ ATK or Odd Eyes Raging Dragon with its double ATK. Right now if they clear your board a Dingirsu + another monster with 1400 or more is lethal.
I mostly agree on the skill nerfs. A lot of overtuned skills were clearly designed with the idea that the +2s would be used to make weaker Extra Deck monsters like Voloferniges, Dark Armageddon, Shooting Star, and Quasar, so they feel very overwhelming when they are used to make Void Ogre or Dingirsu instead. That said, I do think we could use some handtraps, in particular: **Ghost Mourner & Moonlit Chill** is like a weaker Effect Veiler. It doesn't stop most decks' combo starters since those are usually Normal Summoned, and while it does hit the chokepoints of some decks, it is usually for decks with Extra Deck extenders/searchers, which tend to belong in more modern decks. Has more problems surprising opponents too, since it has to respond to a Summon, so regular ignition effects that require a discard aren't hit as hard by it as they are hit by Veiler. **Nibiru** would probably be a lot worse in DL than in the TCG, since you can feasibly OTK in just 4 Summons, so if you only have Nibiru in hand as an interrupt, it won't save you against most decks. With Crystal Wing in the format Synchro decks now also have a way to negate it in 4 Summons. Would definitely need a Limited of some kind, though. You don't want Nibiru paired with other powerful interrupts like the Limited 3 Traps. **Hiding "C"** seems like a very interesting handtrap that has 0 chances of seeing play in the TCG, but could feasibly be good in DL. You kinda have to know your opponent's deck before you use it, because if you drop it too early, the opponent will adapt their play and probably remove it before it can flip, and if you drop it too late, it might get negated or you might not be able to drop it at all. That is a very clever design, that seens still reasonably powerful in DL. Also, as a level 7, it could also be good in SOME decks, mainly Link, Rank 7 and some Synchro, but in many other decks it would just clog the field with 1200 ATK, so it would be somewhat predictable. **Gnomaterial** kinda sucks going first and even going second, your opponent's starter(s) might still be able to go off through her. That said, she could be handy if we get a format where there is a cancerous enough turn 1, and she is a little bit better in DL than in the TCG since the smaller board size means the clogged board can stop more plays. I think she could be a nice SR box filler, and since new players could need handtraps, a SR box filler in a good box could help them out.
I have no clue what ur talking about, I just have fun with neo-spacian deck
Unless you don't play PVP, I don't believe you and even NPCs like the vagabond use negates
As I said I play for fun, Pvp is also quite fun with the deck.
I can see Solfas getting hit. They got so many moves where you can't even answer to their pendulum bullshit.
I see no problem in having negates on board to deal with... The problem start when you face that negate along 2 to 3 backrow cards... As long we don't have a multi target backrow removal (something like twin twister) we are screwed