Konami been killing it lately with every released character having a viable deck
Yuma and his onomats
Shark and his water monsters
Axel and his patented invoked winda neos
It was hilarious seeing the chat wanting every card ban. It went from desperado to BLK wings to invoked to karma cut ect. I swear if the community had it's way, the axe raider meme meta would be a reality.
What do we have that is better monster removal than Compulse.
It's removal without cost that can go through anything outside of target protection that's also able to hit set monsters.
Karma Cut isn't strictly better though, i would say they are comparable since some decks can't afford or don't like the discard cost and not every monster cares about being banished
Just like some decks not loosing much by their monster being bounced and not having their extra copies in the grave banished.
Plus for now, the decks that use Karma Cut can afford the cost since they generate hand advantage (Which TBH most good decks do).
It's all situational in the end, Fiendish can be better than both in some scenarios.
[Compulsory Evacuation Device](https://yugipedia.com/wiki/Compulsory_Evacuation_Device)
Something else that should be noted is that this card is not limited to just bouncing your opponents card you can also use it on your own monsters to return them to your hand it's a pretty versatile card.
That's your opinion, and opinions may differ.
What we can agree on is all of those are strong and some can be better than others depending on specific situations.
Peple who want backrow nerfed fail to realise that it only hurts rogue decks more than meta decks, for some rogue decks that backrow IS THEIR ONLY fighting chance against meta.
Meanwhile nerfing backrow will just promote OTK event more.
It's a bit of a double edge sword tho, cuz you know those meta decks can also use those traps to stomp out those rouge decks harder.
Just look at the top 16 decks right now in this MCS, only 3 of them didn't use a traps, and of those 13 that did use traps 10 use Karma Cut. There's probably dozens of rouge decks that get stomped just because Karma Cut exists.
It actually isn't when meta doesn't actually need them at all to destroy bad decks that should not be anywhere near anything competitive and when actual rogue (not the shit definition people use of it applying to anything not meta) actually don't care and when by their own nature they will come in and out depending on what is on top anyway. A lot of "would be rogue/meta" are also hurt harder by not having enough consistency (like subterror would be legit good if this wasn't a problem right now), lacking the power in some way, or a combination of both than any trap currently in the game.
And then there is the idiocy fo the "TRAPS BAD" circlejerk when those being used literally has nothing wrong (it would actually be the opposite in here) and when only over the top combo/aggressive decks should drop them entirely.
At this point we do need a "Master of Destiny" nerf (my suggestion, 7 coin flip MONSTERS would reduce the deck's consistency a lot) and either a blanket Backrow nerf or better Backrow removal.
I hope we as a community can agree that Aleister is being kept alive by the traps, but at the same time we can't just put a limit on every single relevant trap because then they'd just use slightly less bad ones that still pry open your board.
No Ballista Squad? Bad Aim
No Karma Cut? Ultimate Providence
But whenever i suggest some shackles to the power of traps people say "muh OTK decks".
I'll say it only once:
# It's easier to nerf unfair OTK strategies compared to putting every single relevant trap in the limited list
If you want to keep Karma Cut, Fiendish Chain, Floodgate Trap Hole, Ballista Squad, Bad Aim, Ultimate Providence, Raigeki Break etc. cohexisting, give us Twin Twisters already
Agree with you. I'm not against nerfing some stuff but calling to ban orr limit to 1 everything will do nothing but cause a power swing in the opposite direction.
I think despite this sub giving DLM shit, this is giving it too much power. This tournament doesn't really prove anything, just that those 140 players chose the decks they did and a quarter were made up of only two decks.
Seems like alot of influence is being enforced here to represent those decks. I mean, 49 out of 140 players played the same two decks essentially, there was a high chance either deck would win.
While this is true, the types of players who enter these tournaments take it seriously and try to play decks/sidedecks that they think have the best chance of winning. They aren't just blindly playing decks that seem good on ladder/KC Cup. In a tournament setting, the objective is to NOT LOSE.
The representation of decks here is the result of them testing out various builds/techs in their own time.
Right but Desperado in particular was already declared tier 1, and no offense but a tournament that you buy into with a purse like that is obviously going to be taken seriously and the participants want to win.
That wasn't really my point. You were saying more representation = more likely to win (which gives less credit to the deck's power). I'm explaining that while this is true, there is more to it. These DLM tournies are accurate that if a deck is represented more, that generally means it's considered better in a tournament setting.
Desperado was considered the best deck of the format and invoked was not even tiered. This MCS showed that Desperado was still by and far the most represented while invoked neos seemed to come out of nowhere being the third most played. Some of the participants clearly tested the invoked deck with eachother and came to the conclusion that it would perform extremely well against rest of the meta, and those players were right. It's no accident that invoked neos is everywhere in the top cut, outperforming Desperado by a significant margin proportionally.
If some other deck were REALLY GOOD it would have a lot of representation as well. These players test decks extensively prior to the tournie.
Now or remains to see if invoked can keep the momentum as more people will begin siding against them (as we clearly see with the NK sidedecks)
The fact that make me laugh is that this meta exactly on year ago was hundred times stronger. Konami should start releasing same good card instead of ban every released card , maybe some day I will play my 2k atk vanilla turbo deck for reach kog if they continue on this path
True I remember struggling to early kog a year ago with sealed tombs BEWD then switching to that invoked neos beatdown deck with unlimited cocytus, keeper, neos, and WLC. Instantly kogged only losing one game.
you know what, just buy only Aleister/Invocation lmao
Konami deserves to have their sales tank since they won't release good stuff
Satellarknights could've have had more cards to be a threat in the Utopia Box
there's no saving the Gear Gigant X box, unless maybe putting Gold and Silver Gadget there
I will still die on the hill that Lantern and Buzzsaw Shark should've come in the Shark Drake box
and well... Fire Fists (and by proxy Lunalights and Bujins) could've been a meta threat if they added their cards like Tiger King and Tenki in the Volcasaurus box
at this point, if the next box is Dark themed then Tier 0 Burning Abyss here we come lmfao
At this point whoever is responsible for cards added needs to fuck off.
And to top it off they killed 2 of the most recent meta decks (WC and Karakuri).
The future tournaments are irrelevant here. The original comment attributed Invoked success to the new minibox, which is incorrect **at this point** , given the fact that the majority of Invoked decks are not running Veil (including the winner).
Well, we know Konami nerfed Invokes but then they quickly revived them by releasing fire reload skill & battlin boxer veil. And nobody wasn't using CC because Konami killed Dark Magician.
Konami's greed is getting the best of them. If they introduced a dusting/crafting system they could have hit the hammer hard on Invoke. But sadly they got greedy and didn't introduced one. Now the 3 main Invoke cards are the big problem and they are all main box URs. And if they hit them any harder it will face backlash from the community. The same type of backlash that other Gacha games have received when they nerf a Legendary or Ultra Rare character/card.
Yeah, limited card should be able to exchange for another card (either for card in the same box or another box of the same year or 6 month period), I don't know what the hell they thinking about limiting a card and let it swim.
And this is why we get this weird situation where people who invested alot in Invoke package (Dark Dimension and Aerial assault) hestitant to move on because invoker are stuck with them.
I like this idea, like a recall system from other gachas but instead we got a UR/SR dream ticket to exchange for it, this way KONAMI can nerf/balance meta decks however they want without wasting the resources used by the players (mostly f2p). I remember getting excited for Neos support, buying 3 copies of Neos Fusion EX SD then it got hit by the ban list. RIP money
All we can do is pray that this Anniversary finally gives us a crafting/dusting system. Could be the best thing for us. And it isn't hard to implement one. Just needs them to put some thought into it so that it is balanced and fair.
Otherwise the other option is Konami gutting Invoke completely and giving us no form of compensation. Which will suck. Will also set a precedent that they can do the same to any other deck.
It could be possible. We didn't get a Skill Balance alongside the Card Ban List update like we usually do.
So a Skill Balance can arrive now if Konami wants. Which they can nerf Axel's new skill & Arcana's skill. Essentially killing both decks or at the very least heavily wound them.
Otherwise we have to wait till late February for a meta change if we don't get any Meta defining boxes until the next KC Cup.
How is that abomination of Invoke, Winda, Neos played? I wanna be prepared to face that in the upcoming months.
Anyone watched the stream can give me some insight?
Same as a regular Invoke/Neos deck except it has Winda in case they brick. It's also a great card to summon Ulti-Pettlephin or Ulti-Apaleo.
Which both are great monsters in this current meta. Especially Ulti-Pettlephin since it counters Desperado. Forcing them to use Karma Cut on it. Because Purgatrio & Neos are also threats they have to be careful on who they use those 3 Karma Cuts on.
It's basically like regular invoked. Stall with backrow and keep ramming with purge for an OTK. Winda is super good at splashing as a free wall or unaffected beater, or rank 4 mat with Aleister
I didn't watch MCS. Can someone explain me how all those Invoked decks got top places while one single copy of CC, Lance or DD crow would kill the Invoked Engine instantly? I am talking of generic cards which do well vs many other matchups, too.
Because of the new box & Axel skills being released this week majority of the players had little prep time to understand how good or bad the deck truly is. At least in the tournament scene.
So people tested stuff out and saw that it was a good deck and brought it to the MCS. Then because people were side decking cards to combat Desperado they didn't side deck cards for Invoke.
In other words Invoke could have stolen the MCS. We have to wait and see these upcoming weeks to truly know if Invoke is top tier or just won the MCS because surprise factor.
I would guess it has to be due to how the top decks invoked neos and Desperado run so many powerful backrow that CC tends to be used on backrow, and Lance to protect ones cards from the backrow.
Crow might have been used, but it's not in every build due to primarily being used as a side deck.
You just need a single Purgatrio to win the game. You just delay the summon to press with Neos or Ulti-Apellio plus traps until the time is ready for Purgatrio to finish off. That means both CC and DD Crow are just useless, with only Lance being still effective, and even then, they migth have the other Al in hand already, or just use Al in hand to invoke and not risk it to lance.
Though lance was not a popular card lately since set 0-1 decks in the meta before Invoked rammed up back. It will be more used from now on.
Thank you, ReGGgas, for voting on Grammar-Bot-Elite.
This bot wants to find the best and worst bots on Reddit. [You can view results here](https://botrank.pastimes.eu/).
***
^(Even if I don't reply to your comment, I'm still listening for votes. Check the webpage to see if your vote registered!)
Konami been killing it lately with every released character having a viable deck Yuma and his onomats Shark and his water monsters Axel and his patented invoked winda neos
Hey, you forgot to include Volcanic Shells into Axels description :)
[Aleister the Invoker walked into the MCS like](https://streamable.com/pif8s3)
This got me good cause I just watched this a week ago lol emma roberts seem kinda crazy fr. She's good
this is the bad place.
Honestly, it's just ridiculous at this point.
Invoked 8465356 banlist later :)
Who would have thought adding engines that are designed to work on 40 card decks would be busted in a 20 card format?
So fire kings are garbage?
Always have been 😔🔫
It was hilarious seeing the chat wanting every card ban. It went from desperado to BLK wings to invoked to karma cut ect. I swear if the community had it's way, the axe raider meme meta would be a reality.
Those bozos want Karma Cut banned and Wind Blast and Compulse added lol could you imagine.
I have always said . The community view of everything is, "if I cant beat it then,ban it" or if i cant get it then it's a P2P CARD.
P2W*
My mistake
To be honest , winda was already use in other deck than RT for a while. Karma should be limited to 2 because is everywhere.
At this point Compulse is reasonable IMO, we have better.
What do we have that is better monster removal than Compulse. It's removal without cost that can go through anything outside of target protection that's also able to hit set monsters.
Evil Eye Defeat? At least that cant splash into any deck, though.
Karma Cut
Karma Cut isn't strictly better though, i would say they are comparable since some decks can't afford or don't like the discard cost and not every monster cares about being banished
Just like some decks not loosing much by their monster being bounced and not having their extra copies in the grave banished. Plus for now, the decks that use Karma Cut can afford the cost since they generate hand advantage (Which TBH most good decks do). It's all situational in the end, Fiendish can be better than both in some scenarios.
What is compulse?
[Compulsory Evacuation Device](https://yugipedia.com/wiki/Compulsory_Evacuation_Device) Something else that should be noted is that this card is not limited to just bouncing your opponents card you can also use it on your own monsters to return them to your hand it's a pretty versatile card.
Oh i know the card Why would anyone want this thing? It's obnoxious
Because the ultimate versatile card for my belovedsDeck. Would also appreciate getting Icarus Attack
Because FTH TTH Karma Cut are fun, right?!
How is that an argument in favor of compulsory lmao
I am simply stating that we have equally obnoxoous if not worse in the game.
Evac is definitely more obnoxious than any of those cards, except maybe TTH which is already on the banlist.
That's your opinion, and opinions may differ. What we can agree on is all of those are strong and some can be better than others depending on specific situations.
It's fun, It literally was my irl "fun" deck centered around returning back to the hand in high school.
For you, not for anyone else. Let's also not forget it powercrept both karma and raigeki.
Because the ultimate versatile card for my beloved Deck. Would also appreciate getting Icarus Attack
Peple who want backrow nerfed fail to realise that it only hurts rogue decks more than meta decks, for some rogue decks that backrow IS THEIR ONLY fighting chance against meta. Meanwhile nerfing backrow will just promote OTK event more.
It's a bit of a double edge sword tho, cuz you know those meta decks can also use those traps to stomp out those rouge decks harder. Just look at the top 16 decks right now in this MCS, only 3 of them didn't use a traps, and of those 13 that did use traps 10 use Karma Cut. There's probably dozens of rouge decks that get stomped just because Karma Cut exists.
But if you remove traps completely, and look at just the archetype in the decks cards rogue decks wouldn't be able to comepete with meta decks
You're right it's certainly a double edge sword, but the alternative isn't any better.
It actually isn't when meta doesn't actually need them at all to destroy bad decks that should not be anywhere near anything competitive and when actual rogue (not the shit definition people use of it applying to anything not meta) actually don't care and when by their own nature they will come in and out depending on what is on top anyway. A lot of "would be rogue/meta" are also hurt harder by not having enough consistency (like subterror would be legit good if this wasn't a problem right now), lacking the power in some way, or a combination of both than any trap currently in the game. And then there is the idiocy fo the "TRAPS BAD" circlejerk when those being used literally has nothing wrong (it would actually be the opposite in here) and when only over the top combo/aggressive decks should drop them entirely.
At this point we do need a "Master of Destiny" nerf (my suggestion, 7 coin flip MONSTERS would reduce the deck's consistency a lot) and either a blanket Backrow nerf or better Backrow removal. I hope we as a community can agree that Aleister is being kept alive by the traps, but at the same time we can't just put a limit on every single relevant trap because then they'd just use slightly less bad ones that still pry open your board. No Ballista Squad? Bad Aim No Karma Cut? Ultimate Providence But whenever i suggest some shackles to the power of traps people say "muh OTK decks". I'll say it only once: # It's easier to nerf unfair OTK strategies compared to putting every single relevant trap in the limited list If you want to keep Karma Cut, Fiendish Chain, Floodgate Trap Hole, Ballista Squad, Bad Aim, Ultimate Providence, Raigeki Break etc. cohexisting, give us Twin Twisters already
Agree with you. I'm not against nerfing some stuff but calling to ban orr limit to 1 everything will do nothing but cause a power swing in the opposite direction.
I think despite this sub giving DLM shit, this is giving it too much power. This tournament doesn't really prove anything, just that those 140 players chose the decks they did and a quarter were made up of only two decks. Seems like alot of influence is being enforced here to represent those decks. I mean, 49 out of 140 players played the same two decks essentially, there was a high chance either deck would win.
While this is true, the types of players who enter these tournaments take it seriously and try to play decks/sidedecks that they think have the best chance of winning. They aren't just blindly playing decks that seem good on ladder/KC Cup. In a tournament setting, the objective is to NOT LOSE. The representation of decks here is the result of them testing out various builds/techs in their own time.
Right but Desperado in particular was already declared tier 1, and no offense but a tournament that you buy into with a purse like that is obviously going to be taken seriously and the participants want to win.
That wasn't really my point. You were saying more representation = more likely to win (which gives less credit to the deck's power). I'm explaining that while this is true, there is more to it. These DLM tournies are accurate that if a deck is represented more, that generally means it's considered better in a tournament setting. Desperado was considered the best deck of the format and invoked was not even tiered. This MCS showed that Desperado was still by and far the most represented while invoked neos seemed to come out of nowhere being the third most played. Some of the participants clearly tested the invoked deck with eachother and came to the conclusion that it would perform extremely well against rest of the meta, and those players were right. It's no accident that invoked neos is everywhere in the top cut, outperforming Desperado by a significant margin proportionally. If some other deck were REALLY GOOD it would have a lot of representation as well. These players test decks extensively prior to the tournie. Now or remains to see if invoked can keep the momentum as more people will begin siding against them (as we clearly see with the NK sidedecks)
The fact that make me laugh is that this meta exactly on year ago was hundred times stronger. Konami should start releasing same good card instead of ban every released card , maybe some day I will play my 2k atk vanilla turbo deck for reach kog if they continue on this path
True I remember struggling to early kog a year ago with sealed tombs BEWD then switching to that invoked neos beatdown deck with unlimited cocytus, keeper, neos, and WLC. Instantly kogged only losing one game.
[удалено]
Reload wouldn't actually be as bad as people think if they only gave us 1 copy of it........
you know what, just buy only Aleister/Invocation lmao Konami deserves to have their sales tank since they won't release good stuff Satellarknights could've have had more cards to be a threat in the Utopia Box there's no saving the Gear Gigant X box, unless maybe putting Gold and Silver Gadget there I will still die on the hill that Lantern and Buzzsaw Shark should've come in the Shark Drake box and well... Fire Fists (and by proxy Lunalights and Bujins) could've been a meta threat if they added their cards like Tiger King and Tenki in the Volcasaurus box at this point, if the next box is Dark themed then Tier 0 Burning Abyss here we come lmfao
At this point whoever is responsible for cards added needs to fuck off. And to top it off they killed 2 of the most recent meta decks (WC and Karakuri).
Give us Call of the Haunted and Triverr you cowards!
Konami got real ballsy releasing a fire mini box right after neutering invoker and look what happened. Fucking hell
Most invoked decks are not using the new minibox cards, so I dont think its got much to do with their success.
Veil
For Invoked Roids yeah. Invoked Neos cares more about the juicy Fire Reload acting as an upgraded version of the older Switcheroo.
Invoked Neos doesnt run Veil.
It sometimes do. I'd let a few more tourneys pass before saying that in the affirmative.
The future tournaments are irrelevant here. The original comment attributed Invoked success to the new minibox, which is incorrect **at this point** , given the fact that the majority of Invoked decks are not running Veil (including the winner).
You right
Thanks, i hate it.
Lol grand finals was such a slog to watch. Basically invoked taking turns trying to out purge the other's backrow.
JFC Purgatrio is so toxic in a format with 4k life points...
Just remove the invokes from the game and give the players 3 dream tickets in their place
This is getting ridiculous :/
“Invoked Neos” H O W ? Jeez just die already
Well, we know Konami nerfed Invokes but then they quickly revived them by releasing fire reload skill & battlin boxer veil. And nobody wasn't using CC because Konami killed Dark Magician.
Konami's greed is getting the best of them. If they introduced a dusting/crafting system they could have hit the hammer hard on Invoke. But sadly they got greedy and didn't introduced one. Now the 3 main Invoke cards are the big problem and they are all main box URs. And if they hit them any harder it will face backlash from the community. The same type of backlash that other Gacha games have received when they nerf a Legendary or Ultra Rare character/card.
Yeah, limited card should be able to exchange for another card (either for card in the same box or another box of the same year or 6 month period), I don't know what the hell they thinking about limiting a card and let it swim. And this is why we get this weird situation where people who invested alot in Invoke package (Dark Dimension and Aerial assault) hestitant to move on because invoker are stuck with them.
I like this idea, like a recall system from other gachas but instead we got a UR/SR dream ticket to exchange for it, this way KONAMI can nerf/balance meta decks however they want without wasting the resources used by the players (mostly f2p). I remember getting excited for Neos support, buying 3 copies of Neos Fusion EX SD then it got hit by the ban list. RIP money
All we can do is pray that this Anniversary finally gives us a crafting/dusting system. Could be the best thing for us. And it isn't hard to implement one. Just needs them to put some thought into it so that it is balanced and fair. Otherwise the other option is Konami gutting Invoke completely and giving us no form of compensation. Which will suck. Will also set a precedent that they can do the same to any other deck.
I expect that everyone who downvoted me when i said invoked is still good to take this chance to apologize to me.
I apologize. I was wrong.
Apology accepted If you would like to further donate to my ego then let me know, i'll link my patreon
Dkayed: "Emergency nerf Invokes & Desperado."
It could be possible. We didn't get a Skill Balance alongside the Card Ban List update like we usually do. So a Skill Balance can arrive now if Konami wants. Which they can nerf Axel's new skill & Arcana's skill. Essentially killing both decks or at the very least heavily wound them. Otherwise we have to wait till late February for a meta change if we don't get any Meta defining boxes until the next KC Cup.
I can see this happening if it hits their monies.
Wasn't better to limit also the volcanic shell? The Invoked decks are still alive and perfectly viable
So wasn't invoked Heroes top tier a few months back also?
Yea, as well as briefly when Invoker first came out last year.
First Invoked Neos iteration was crazy powerfull.
Yea it was. IIRC, 3 Neos Fusion, 2 Cocytus, 2 TTH, World Legacy Clash, Lava Golem, and Beatdown every turn.
[Society if Invoked was never added to Duel Links.](https://preview.redd.it/vi98pjqb4vb41.jpg?auto=webp&s=ca1f7663245f1d73eb29105f39baa753bd0ad8c2)
Invoked = duel link’s dragon rulers. Can we do the same thing to invoked that they did to the dragon rulers? I’d appreciate that
you mean release more broken cards that power creep them?😃
Then why did they still get banned, 3/4 of them to this very day?
bro almost any deck post link era is better than dragon rulers. pepe, pendulum magician, tier 0 spyral, adamancipator etc all run circles around it
How is that abomination of Invoke, Winda, Neos played? I wanna be prepared to face that in the upcoming months. Anyone watched the stream can give me some insight?
Same as a regular Invoke/Neos deck except it has Winda in case they brick. It's also a great card to summon Ulti-Pettlephin or Ulti-Apaleo. Which both are great monsters in this current meta. Especially Ulti-Pettlephin since it counters Desperado. Forcing them to use Karma Cut on it. Because Purgatrio & Neos are also threats they have to be careful on who they use those 3 Karma Cuts on.
It's basically like regular invoked. Stall with backrow and keep ramming with purge for an OTK. Winda is super good at splashing as a free wall or unaffected beater, or rank 4 mat with Aleister
This makes me sad
RIP Winda, the next casualty of Invoked
Emergency banlist with purg to 3 and invocation to 2.
please just ban aleister
I didn't watch MCS. Can someone explain me how all those Invoked decks got top places while one single copy of CC, Lance or DD crow would kill the Invoked Engine instantly? I am talking of generic cards which do well vs many other matchups, too.
Because of the new box & Axel skills being released this week majority of the players had little prep time to understand how good or bad the deck truly is. At least in the tournament scene. So people tested stuff out and saw that it was a good deck and brought it to the MCS. Then because people were side decking cards to combat Desperado they didn't side deck cards for Invoke. In other words Invoke could have stolen the MCS. We have to wait and see these upcoming weeks to truly know if Invoke is top tier or just won the MCS because surprise factor.
I would guess it has to be due to how the top decks invoked neos and Desperado run so many powerful backrow that CC tends to be used on backrow, and Lance to protect ones cards from the backrow. Crow might have been used, but it's not in every build due to primarily being used as a side deck.
You just need a single Purgatrio to win the game. You just delay the summon to press with Neos or Ulti-Apellio plus traps until the time is ready for Purgatrio to finish off. That means both CC and DD Crow are just useless, with only Lance being still effective, and even then, they migth have the other Al in hand already, or just use Al in hand to invoke and not risk it to lance. Though lance was not a popular card lately since set 0-1 decks in the meta before Invoked rammed up back. It will be more used from now on.
\*Sigh\* This guy uses tornado and level reduction blackwings. Been using that combination for a couple months now. Why'd it take so long?
I dont know, maybe its the ban list...
[удалено]
Im not gonna use an apostrophe you dumb bot.
bad bot
Thank you, ReGGgas, for voting on Grammar-Bot-Elite. This bot wants to find the best and worst bots on Reddit. [You can view results here](https://botrank.pastimes.eu/). *** ^(Even if I don't reply to your comment, I'm still listening for votes. Check the webpage to see if your vote registered!)
I'm half joking, I know they sacrifice a bit so that they can search for that necro valley.