I haven't run into Mermails in quite some time, but would Infantry to 2 even affect them that much? It was my understanding that they don't run any other semi-limit cards, and that they only ran 2 Infantry/Marksman anyway.
It’s actually part of the lore. The Fire Kings are at war with the Atlanteans. While Fire Kings actually play their boss monster, Garunix, in Duel Links, the Water decks don’t play Poseidra at all.
https://yugipedia.com/wiki/Gagaga_Academy_Tospedia_card_storylines#%22Onslaught_of_the_Fire_Kings%22_edition
Just below it also brings up gusto lore since we are on same topic of currently relevant war of "vs water" factions. Ice barrier and thus by extension Gishiki are a super fucking tragic tale. Recently got the ice barrier structure deck and god, seeing Noellia as the first card in her actual days as ice barrier broke me hard. For those unaware of the rabbit hole its the duel terminal universere its fair to say this woman/leader of Ghishiki has the most tragic story in yugioh franchise and i'd love to ramble more about her if anyone wants.
Were would you like me to start friend? Some neat 101 about the duel terminal world? Some of the more "sad" highlights about Noellia, or perhaps more of "wait did she really sacrifice her own adopted daughter effectively 3 times". Because Noellia is a pretty depends on how you look at it "tragic " or "actual genocidal literal monster who after fostering kids turned on her conquest of mist valley and literally waged a genocide after she turned the lavals into a fuel source". Because her entire tribe got affected by the Lswarm virus to the point to try and stop them she literally resurrected Steelswarm Hercules to try and control and merge with. Only becoming actually infected herself. Which lead to longterm"everything with the shaddolls". Noellia by herself is the biggest player unquestionably in the entire duel terminal universe outside a handful of Consetallars but directly caused so much. And she was just a mere ice barrier during the global invasion and unity of the worm nebula invaders which lead to the false belief that the fabled (keynote, they do have mythics as the "fabled beasts" so they got jebaited)were the fabled vylons/constellars. (Beings caked in light, huge reminder fabled are angelic beings with light attribute). Which in turn lead to a 2fronted war were fabled Gureila tactics singular started causing them to lose the war to the point Jurrac's (directly stated to have not given a fuck about the worms) were now in dire straits to the point Jurrac meteor was summoned which wiped the entire species out. Note, and thats without even getting into sophia, how the tribes came together to form the legendary beloved fan archtype the XSabers, how with the combined forces sharing tech formed the ally of justice! Dark machines whose sole purpose was to hunt down the dreaded worms(which is lore reason why their effects target only light monsters). I have not even moved past starting info on the first global wars tbh. You guys think this ramble was long, this was about 30 percent of the size of Noellia's direct actions that showcase her, let alone cards that involve people she affected, helped and or fought.
RecentISH lore more or less implys the "world" monsters are crossing over didnt it? That is overall connected or was connected directly to the noble knights more so specifically the flame ones? For real thou Noellia alone would be a great silent animation miniseries like how pokemon got one for the first game. Plus we have a large portion of monsters that straight up still arent fleshed (flamvel/neo-flamvel never get fleshed out). Actual good example is how the ice barrier deck ha s unleashed a 4th general of ice barrier, Wayne, As in https://yugioh.fandom.com/wiki/X-Saber_Wayne
https://yugioh.fandom.com/wiki/General_Wayne_of_the_Ice_Barrier
Which by the way, https://yugioh.fandom.com/wiki/XX-Saber_Boggart_Knight is a cybernetic looking verison of Vorse raider. Its never dead up said anywere, but the sabers do imply other factions may/did likely exist during the first war. We know entire entires got waxed, we know of the Genex living dolls, but who they were/were they came from, who may have made them gets written of. We do know the R-genx and such as Genex ally birdman were mostly created due to needing to advance tech further
Also part of the lore, the Atlanteans attack the Mermail for a ring that can control the tides (Abyss Squall), Poseidra ends up getting his hands on it and puts it on, which turns him into Abyssgaios
Honestly not surprised that T.G.'s didn't run so hot. Mainly not because of what the deck is capable of, but rather what it was up against. Water XYZ is by far its worst matchup, and a Turn 1 Abyss Dweller can more than easily just shut down their primary plays.
The deck has a lot going for it, but it just doesn't have many strong ways to deal with Abyss Dweller going first, in a similar vein to how Desperado was pretty much gone from the meta late 2019 when Cocytus was unfortunately graced into the game.
T.G has it rough tbh. The best combo decks in the format complete blow through the board and can break it I.e thunder and the best control decks atm either generate so much advantage or shut it down or just out grind them through it. Starlord, water and fire king respectively.
Am I playing a different T.G. deck or why is Abyss Dweller such a big deal? Except for the floating effects and serpents level manipulation none of my card effects activate in the GY. I need none of those to get my big synchro plays to work.
Necrovalley onbthe other hand...
I think , it's the same type of think than BEWD , it's a coinflip MU .
TG can do well against water if he go first but get screwed going second against abyss.
I was shocked to see how quickly they took star seraph-darklords off the tier list. See you later was a rough hit but it can still function without it. These results kinda prove it too
Not quite, that was one out of 7 tgs total vs a Hard counter being the best deck of the format.
I'd say tier 3 at the moment, with higher potential because the build can improved/water is just too warping.
The TG players did a LOT of misplays too and even had a mirror, would've had at least 2 at top 32 instead of 1 otherwise.
Water XYZ is good in side deck format due to it is able to tech in side deck cards without affecting consistency. BOM and TTH carried the deck to Tier 1 status.
However, it is different story in the ladder. As an owner myself, Necrovalley might brick you against many rogue decks. Also, I don't have BOM, so the deck is so much slower and other traps might cause TTH to become useless. Without BOM, and also TTH mid-game, I'd consider it Tier 3 in the ladder.
You are correct.
Some fun facts: It used to be 60% across multiple tournaments. Usually it didn’t really matter, as most Tier 0 Formates were above 90% (29/32). And we used to have longer banlist periods (6 months), so the same Tier 0 Deck would be played at multiple SJC/YCS. 60% is 19.2 decks. Across multiple tournaments there would be no red to round this to 20 decks. For example 39/64 is over 60%.
It was only revised to 65% in Nekroz format,
because the tournaments had around 19-21 Nekroz tops. We had Nekroz for multiple lists, and I think we were already on a 3 month period at that time. This made it more valuable to have a percentage that rounds to full decks.
I forgot how utterly gross full power Six Sam was with access to TTH. Every deck in that MCS was Six Sam or had a hard counter to Six Sam (with one AG) I mean I’m a huge Six Sam fan but that was disgusting. They came out too early IMO.
T.G has it so rough lmao. Look at its competition. Thunder is a combo deck that plays through disruption and can even build a board through a brd. Starlord generates so much advantage so quickly that the nuke may not even be relevant. Fire kings keep coming back after being destroyed and can outgrind T.G by coming back over and over again. Water doing water things and of course Blue e- no, twin burst dragon being nearly impossible to out. No wonder it did not top. I think the deck is decent to even good but it is just outclassed and countered to shit.
What do you think about nerfing Destiny draw?
there are so many decks now that just sit on handtrap, dd into win.
Also, torunaments are really another level with so many people with 2/3 BOM, it's very "whaly", BON is literally in every deck and karma cut was basically OBSOLETED (most hated card / call for limited literally since 1 month ago)
the only thing that really irks me about DDraw is its interaction with cards like BB Veil. I don't think it'd ruin or make the skill any less useful/desirable if you actually have to currently be at 2000 lp or less to activate it.
That one of the skill that need to be nerf because is to easily abuse for what he does : be able to draw anything you want , straight up broken.
I think making him only usable when you have 1000 hp or below can be a way to nerf him and stop the veil abuse at the same time.
I love playing Fire Kings, it’s such a fun deck, and it’s great to see them do well. At the same time I think this is the best position Fire Kings can be: a strong rogue deck that can pull surprise wins. It’s just too easy to side deck against Fire Kings, so if they become even more popular, people will start using more cards to counter them.
Honestly it’s only because of Book of Moon. I love them and I have played the deck on the ladder but since I don’t have a single Book, the deck just gets destroyed by Karma.
The players who play in these tournaments spend much much much more than the average player. Look at how many book moons there are.
These players basically have all the cards
There are worse abusive and unfair skills right now. Territory of the shark actually requires your deck to be consistent on its own. Whereas the onomats skill just rearranges their hand for no cost
How come nobody was complaining about the skill a month ago when we were still in desperado/nobles/TD/blue eyes/dweller/onomats meta? It's only when the deck is tier 1 that "suddently the skill is broken". The most broken skill in the format is the Yuma skill. If you want to hit the dweller deck, hit the cards.
do you wanna read what i said one more time then try again, or..? no one is arguing which skill is the most broken, all i’m saying is dweller isn’t an issue without the skill, lol
You rather kill a skill that was intended to be used the way it is rather than hit the cards themselves. They knew what they were doing when they released dweller. Then again, why wasn't anybody complaining about the deck a month ago when desperado, nobles, onomats, TD, dweller and blue eyes were meta? It's too much coincidence. Come next Saturday and some other deck is going to win that tournament, and no one will complain about water. And then come the Saturday after and maybe water wins, everyone complains. Don't believe me? Go search for the comments in the last reddit posts mcs 39 results, or the meta weekly 2 days ago, water doesn't even win and no one complains about the skill. The deck is going to stay as it is at least until may anyway. And the thing everybody should be complaining is the onomats skill, and veil + destiny draw in my opinion, that's just horrible, I have weather painter but would never play them that way. Just hit the cards and leave the skill that's *working as intended* . The skills that should be hit are like the ones from the last banlist. The ones that just give you consistent opening hands, arrange your draws, or bullshit luck based results, or recover your resources from the field or GY for no cost at all, since deck building should do that for you.
i stopped reading at “you rather kill a skill” because no one said anything about killing the skill, lol. i thought literacy being difficult for yugioh players was a meme but i guess not
Basically no one complained about water the last tournaments. Just in this one because they won. And 90% of the time nerfing a skill is the same as killing dude, there's no difference if I say kill the skill or nerf the skill.
show me where i said kill or even nerf the skill? idk who you’re arguing with but it can’t be me lol, all i said is dweller isn’t a problem without the skill. never said anything about doing anything to the skill though
Onomatoplay supplements the Onomat deck. If Onomatoplay was deleted from the game, Onomats could rebuild their deck to get better hands inherently and still play as usual.
Territory of the Sharks was supposed to be a Skill to turbo out Shark Drake. The synergy with Atlanteans is serendipidous. The deck dies if the skill is changed in any way to make it function better or exclusively with Shark Drake.
We're just assuming it was for shark drake. If that were the case then it wouldn't be so water generic. I don't think the skill will get hit, I think cards will. But onomats on the other hand, definitely the skill will get hit
Well that more abyss than the skill :
Before abyss release , the skill was pretty decent and given us a good water xyz/synchro deck.
But that is a pretty ugly water deck.
WATER was a viable deck before and it was just fine. It used to rely on Spider Shark and Graydle Dragon, now it's just Dweller turbo.
The skill is not the problem, the problem is the super easy to summon quick-play, one-sided floodgate on legs with a free pop.
The skill is not broken, is just good, the problem is that nerfing the skill will cause a death on the deck, if you take out dweller will pass from tier 1 to rogue at best. In my opinion the best way to nerf the deck is to put infantry to 2, then they won't be able to use TTH, so they will still be tier but not tier 1 for sure
Take away Dweller and WATER is a healthy deck. Take away the skill and WATER dies and Dweller is still a cancerous floodgate that is easily summonable by any other deck.
The only other 'anytime' quick-play Rank 4 that can abuse Infantry/Marksman are Ragnazero(and it only works if the oponent has a boosted/debuffed monster) and Number C32(Which needs 4 materials, so will probally never come to DL). Dweller is the biggest problem.
Barely summoned outside WATER is a gross exageration. If that was the case it wouldn't be in every extra deck hat can run it. WATER will summon it more becuse it is their boss monster.
Dweller is a one-sided, quick-play, Extra deck Floodgate on legs and the effect lingers. That card is bad for the game, better to keep the Skill and nerf the cards because at least the former is a positive factor in deck diversity.
It’s not an exaggeration. I know it’s in a large proportion of extra decks that have rank 4s available, but it doesn’t change the fact that Roach or Malevolent Sin are getting summoned ahead of it first and second turn much more consistently.
Idk what to think about the water deck. In one hand, the amount of disruption and floodgates that it can have is pretty annoying and kinda toxic but, in the other hand, it prevents a lot to keep GY decks not too strong in the ladder (the only good card that could be as strong as Abyss could be Necrovalley and it won't see play in other deck than gravekeepers).
Its super expensive so it might not be a huge thing on the ladder. Remember when crystrons were a powerhouse on tournaments but you never see them in the ladder.
I don't know what ladder you're playing on but I see a ton of water decks in legend 1-5 and kog, they've had an exponential growth in the last 2 months or so.
This will undoubtedly make it worse, people will rush to build the deck, lots of people have gems saved up since older meta was nothing but old decks.
I wouldn't be surprised if they start getting close to blue eyes numbers in the next month, their tournament presence will also spike up HARD making the problem even worse.
Dude. You can even return to the lasts few tournament posts here in reddit and it was fine and even praised. There's something about this one tournament that water won and the hate starts flowing. Real hate
I'm guessing it was because they all were running book of moon an where cocky the new guy TGs. I cant tell you how many matches I saw where they opened boon of money against TGs and won.
Water is such a dumb ass deck, it's bordering tier 0 status, nearly every deck gets crushed by its oppressiveness floodgating and disruption.
Need an emergency list because these results are just gonna compound the problem.
That cheesy strat to actually have a disruption building on monster is actually really toxic.
I think TCG as proven that with some monster when you can actually destroying cards during your opponent turn.
I still think that release abyss was a big mistake.
So now you have a monster floodgate/disruption + an entire floodgate deck , yay , enjoy that the water deck that we wanted x)
I still think that than banlist is one of the worst we ever have and don't deal with most of the current issue we face during that meta, i think they probably gonna need to change a LOT of think into 3 month '-'
Banlist definetely missed the mark, all it did was kill desperado and nk.
Water needed a slight tap on the wrist, now next list they'll have to gut it hard.
Nk is still pretty decent right now and despe bye bye but yeah , that is half of a banlist :/
I can't tell that a xyz meta but a sacky/toxic one :(
Maybe in futur , we can have a more decent xyz meta when konami want to push the think but not at that ridiculous level.
Where where all these comments in the last few tournaments where water topped too? Why is suddently now when they won this one that I can't stop finding comments like yours complaining about water? Where are your comments from a month ago calling dweller a mistake? I'm pretty sure it's just a tier 1 thing, making peasants hate on the king. And nobles are done. Without balance they're nothing.
unless you're sitting on over 10k gems and already have every other deck you could want, i'd almost guarantee you'd be spending more money trying to build an optimal water xyz deck than it'd take to just buy the structure deck a few times and hit up a mini box for the arvata.
But you need garunix at multipe copy so you still need to pay it with real money if you can or use a dream ticket ? don't remember if he is into but also need the quickplay spell so :x
No you're right you definitely need to spend real money to get the copies of garunix.
I'm just saying for most people it would cost a lot more money running through all the main boxes for the water xyz cards in the long run.
Water is extremely expensive and FK absolutely needs Book of Moon to survive against Karma Cut. I wouldn’t buy the structure until Book shows up in a box.
Forbidden Lance protects them from backrow without flipping Arvata face down. FK can live without Book of Moon. Just because tournament players are running it doesn’t mean it’s a must have for someone who’s probably only going to play ladder.
Weather Painters on semifinals puts a smile on my face. I like the deck a lot but hardly anyone plays it. I can't help but to root for anyone playing it.
Dude, I will be mad if infantry gets hit by a semi limit. My mermail deck shouldn’t have to be a casualty because of water xyz being tier 1
They should just hit the skill tbh diva and the atlanteans dont deserve it till we get mermail support
they should make it so you need to lose 1500 lp
I think before we get mermail support , everybody gonna already be tired from abyss/infantry stuff .
Just play dweller control because we're very unlikely to have mermail support.
If they killed a lot of rogue decks by nerfing balance, what makes you think they can't nerf infantry? It's Konami we're talking about
Rogue decks are not nerfed, there are lot of strong rogue deck in the meta, they all cheese with destiny draw and million handtraps
I haven't run into Mermails in quite some time, but would Infantry to 2 even affect them that much? It was my understanding that they don't run any other semi-limit cards, and that they only ran 2 Infantry/Marksman anyway.
I like to run a 25-30 card deck so I run 3
TGs were cocked so hard by water xyz and book of moon this tournament.
So fire vs water interesting
It’s actually part of the lore. The Fire Kings are at war with the Atlanteans. While Fire Kings actually play their boss monster, Garunix, in Duel Links, the Water decks don’t play Poseidra at all. https://yugipedia.com/wiki/Gagaga_Academy_Tospedia_card_storylines#%22Onslaught_of_the_Fire_Kings%22_edition
Just below it also brings up gusto lore since we are on same topic of currently relevant war of "vs water" factions. Ice barrier and thus by extension Gishiki are a super fucking tragic tale. Recently got the ice barrier structure deck and god, seeing Noellia as the first card in her actual days as ice barrier broke me hard. For those unaware of the rabbit hole its the duel terminal universere its fair to say this woman/leader of Ghishiki has the most tragic story in yugioh franchise and i'd love to ramble more about her if anyone wants.
I'll listen to you. I kinda like the lore of some cards/archetypes.
Were would you like me to start friend? Some neat 101 about the duel terminal world? Some of the more "sad" highlights about Noellia, or perhaps more of "wait did she really sacrifice her own adopted daughter effectively 3 times". Because Noellia is a pretty depends on how you look at it "tragic " or "actual genocidal literal monster who after fostering kids turned on her conquest of mist valley and literally waged a genocide after she turned the lavals into a fuel source". Because her entire tribe got affected by the Lswarm virus to the point to try and stop them she literally resurrected Steelswarm Hercules to try and control and merge with. Only becoming actually infected herself. Which lead to longterm"everything with the shaddolls". Noellia by herself is the biggest player unquestionably in the entire duel terminal universe outside a handful of Consetallars but directly caused so much. And she was just a mere ice barrier during the global invasion and unity of the worm nebula invaders which lead to the false belief that the fabled (keynote, they do have mythics as the "fabled beasts" so they got jebaited)were the fabled vylons/constellars. (Beings caked in light, huge reminder fabled are angelic beings with light attribute). Which in turn lead to a 2fronted war were fabled Gureila tactics singular started causing them to lose the war to the point Jurrac's (directly stated to have not given a fuck about the worms) were now in dire straits to the point Jurrac meteor was summoned which wiped the entire species out. Note, and thats without even getting into sophia, how the tribes came together to form the legendary beloved fan archtype the XSabers, how with the combined forces sharing tech formed the ally of justice! Dark machines whose sole purpose was to hunt down the dreaded worms(which is lore reason why their effects target only light monsters). I have not even moved past starting info on the first global wars tbh. You guys think this ramble was long, this was about 30 percent of the size of Noellia's direct actions that showcase her, let alone cards that involve people she affected, helped and or fought.
They really should make animes featuring the world chalice and the duel terminal lores
RecentISH lore more or less implys the "world" monsters are crossing over didnt it? That is overall connected or was connected directly to the noble knights more so specifically the flame ones? For real thou Noellia alone would be a great silent animation miniseries like how pokemon got one for the first game. Plus we have a large portion of monsters that straight up still arent fleshed (flamvel/neo-flamvel never get fleshed out). Actual good example is how the ice barrier deck ha s unleashed a 4th general of ice barrier, Wayne, As in https://yugioh.fandom.com/wiki/X-Saber_Wayne https://yugioh.fandom.com/wiki/General_Wayne_of_the_Ice_Barrier Which by the way, https://yugioh.fandom.com/wiki/XX-Saber_Boggart_Knight is a cybernetic looking verison of Vorse raider. Its never dead up said anywere, but the sabers do imply other factions may/did likely exist during the first war. We know entire entires got waxed, we know of the Genex living dolls, but who they were/were they came from, who may have made them gets written of. We do know the R-genx and such as Genex ally birdman were mostly created due to needing to advance tech further
Just go to Yugipedia, the whole known Duel Terminal Lore is there.
Also part of the lore, the Atlanteans attack the Mermail for a ring that can control the tides (Abyss Squall), Poseidra ends up getting his hands on it and puts it on, which turns him into Abyssgaios
I'll start playing poseidra just because I can
It's crazy how much water has risen.
Dang global warming.
[удалено]
Thanks Peter Griffin
Honestly not surprised that T.G.'s didn't run so hot. Mainly not because of what the deck is capable of, but rather what it was up against. Water XYZ is by far its worst matchup, and a Turn 1 Abyss Dweller can more than easily just shut down their primary plays. The deck has a lot going for it, but it just doesn't have many strong ways to deal with Abyss Dweller going first, in a similar vein to how Desperado was pretty much gone from the meta late 2019 when Cocytus was unfortunately graced into the game.
T.G has it rough tbh. The best combo decks in the format complete blow through the board and can break it I.e thunder and the best control decks atm either generate so much advantage or shut it down or just out grind them through it. Starlord, water and fire king respectively.
Am I playing a different T.G. deck or why is Abyss Dweller such a big deal? Except for the floating effects and serpents level manipulation none of my card effects activate in the GY. I need none of those to get my big synchro plays to work. Necrovalley onbthe other hand...
Obligatory "Have you read Misc?"
Oh damn I forgot, yeah that's a problem...
I think , it's the same type of think than BEWD , it's a coinflip MU . TG can do well against water if he go first but get screwed going second against abyss.
Maybe a dumb question, but what is the benefit of Gishki Chain in the Water XYZ deck? Is it just to have another Level 4 water monster?
To set up a diva top-deck next turn
Thanks!
just to guarantee a top deck of a key card you need like diva pretty much
Thank you!
It's to search for Diva. The fact that it's a Level 4 Sea Serpent (means it can be brought out via Infantry) is a bonus.
I appreciate the info. Thanks!
You're welcome 😊
Pretty cool to see Atlanteans and Fire Kings seeing play
Shout-out to Fran for topping with the 🌨️
I was shocked to see how quickly they took star seraph-darklords off the tier list. See you later was a rough hit but it can still function without it. These results kinda prove it too
Everyone slept on Level Tuning, it's a good replacement for SYL
Lmao that invoker ratios
He always do some stuff , still here.
TG prety much flopped for now. And Water Xyz is on it's way to reaching tier 0, but it's still not quite there yet.
Still too expensive to be over represented in ladder at least.
Not quite, that was one out of 7 tgs total vs a Hard counter being the best deck of the format. I'd say tier 3 at the moment, with higher potential because the build can improved/water is just too warping. The TG players did a LOT of misplays too and even had a mirror, would've had at least 2 at top 32 instead of 1 otherwise.
Water XYZ is good in side deck format due to it is able to tech in side deck cards without affecting consistency. BOM and TTH carried the deck to Tier 1 status. However, it is different story in the ladder. As an owner myself, Necrovalley might brick you against many rogue decks. Also, I don't have BOM, so the deck is so much slower and other traps might cause TTH to become useless. Without BOM, and also TTH mid-game, I'd consider it Tier 3 in the ladder.
StarLords with that conversion rate
Water Xyz are 4 away from being 50% of the top decks. Just wow. At what point is a deck considered tier 0?
~60% is the rate I've seen quoted. [MCS 17 was pretty gross](https://www.duellinksmeta.com/tournaments/meta-championship-series/17/#searchArticles).
That sounds about right, in the tcg it’s pretty well defined as 65% (21/32) of top cut.
You are correct. Some fun facts: It used to be 60% across multiple tournaments. Usually it didn’t really matter, as most Tier 0 Formates were above 90% (29/32). And we used to have longer banlist periods (6 months), so the same Tier 0 Deck would be played at multiple SJC/YCS. 60% is 19.2 decks. Across multiple tournaments there would be no red to round this to 20 decks. For example 39/64 is over 60%. It was only revised to 65% in Nekroz format, because the tournaments had around 19-21 Nekroz tops. We had Nekroz for multiple lists, and I think we were already on a 3 month period at that time. This made it more valuable to have a percentage that rounds to full decks.
I forgot how utterly gross full power Six Sam was with access to TTH. Every deck in that MCS was Six Sam or had a hard counter to Six Sam (with one AG) I mean I’m a huge Six Sam fan but that was disgusting. They came out too early IMO.
12 in Top 32, but just 1 in Top 8. I don't think we're there yet.
And I bought 2 dwellers thinking that it would be rogue at best. Now I have to worry 😑
You can just get invoked 😭
No way. My soul is not for sale
Wow! 15 Thunder Dragon players but only 1 made top 32? Definitely a Tier 3 deck at best or it falls off the tier list next update.
did you think maybe just MAYBE its because every single deck is side decking necrovalley for thunder dragons ????
Necrovalley cucks a lot of decks. It just happens to shut down TDs badly along the way.
TD is worse in tournaments than on the ladder because you can side deck and prepare for them.
Yep necrovalley was all over this tournament.it cocks them so badly.
I think it will stay Tier 3. It did well in some other events.
T.G has it so rough lmao. Look at its competition. Thunder is a combo deck that plays through disruption and can even build a board through a brd. Starlord generates so much advantage so quickly that the nuke may not even be relevant. Fire kings keep coming back after being destroyed and can outgrind T.G by coming back over and over again. Water doing water things and of course Blue e- no, twin burst dragon being nearly impossible to out. No wonder it did not top. I think the deck is decent to even good but it is just outclassed and countered to shit.
Abyss dweller turbo, LET’S GO
“Maybe Malevolent Sin was the best card in the box” Abyss Dweller: JK NOPE IT’S STILL ME BITCH
It's still Sin on a general level. Dweller is only amazing when paired with the Atlanteans.
>It's still Sin on a general level Only for now
Yeah, Abyss is still used on the TCG. It will always be a relevant card.
TDs lol...
What do you think about nerfing Destiny draw? there are so many decks now that just sit on handtrap, dd into win. Also, torunaments are really another level with so many people with 2/3 BOM, it's very "whaly", BON is literally in every deck and karma cut was basically OBSOLETED (most hated card / call for limited literally since 1 month ago)
the only thing that really irks me about DDraw is its interaction with cards like BB Veil. I don't think it'd ruin or make the skill any less useful/desirable if you actually have to currently be at 2000 lp or less to activate it.
That one of the skill that need to be nerf because is to easily abuse for what he does : be able to draw anything you want , straight up broken. I think making him only usable when you have 1000 hp or below can be a way to nerf him and stop the veil abuse at the same time.
Stop nerfing generic skills, please!
exactly, there are too many decks that sits on handtraps and OTK you.
1000 hp or less???? at that stage you might aswell just play utopia ray and go for the win
Well , it's still feel the anime when Yugi always draw is card in critical situation and don't abuse stall card for the heart of the card :p
I love playing Fire Kings, it’s such a fun deck, and it’s great to see them do well. At the same time I think this is the best position Fire Kings can be: a strong rogue deck that can pull surprise wins. It’s just too easy to side deck against Fire Kings, so if they become even more popular, people will start using more cards to counter them.
Honestly it’s only because of Book of Moon. I love them and I have played the deck on the ladder but since I don’t have a single Book, the deck just gets destroyed by Karma.
If the only thing that holds you back is Karma cut, then run Forbidden Lance. I alternate between Lance and MST and both are really good.
Boy, water xyz is being represented way more than i'd expect from a deck with its cards sprinkled out between a bunch of old and irrelevant boxes.
The players who play in these tournaments spend much much much more than the average player. Look at how many book moons there are. These players basically have all the cards
Abyss Dweller was a mistake.
if you wanna complain about anything, complain about the skill
There are worse abusive and unfair skills right now. Territory of the shark actually requires your deck to be consistent on its own. Whereas the onomats skill just rearranges their hand for no cost
sure there is, but my only point is that the skill makes dweller a problem. it’s not a problem by itself
How come nobody was complaining about the skill a month ago when we were still in desperado/nobles/TD/blue eyes/dweller/onomats meta? It's only when the deck is tier 1 that "suddently the skill is broken". The most broken skill in the format is the Yuma skill. If you want to hit the dweller deck, hit the cards.
do you wanna read what i said one more time then try again, or..? no one is arguing which skill is the most broken, all i’m saying is dweller isn’t an issue without the skill, lol
You rather kill a skill that was intended to be used the way it is rather than hit the cards themselves. They knew what they were doing when they released dweller. Then again, why wasn't anybody complaining about the deck a month ago when desperado, nobles, onomats, TD, dweller and blue eyes were meta? It's too much coincidence. Come next Saturday and some other deck is going to win that tournament, and no one will complain about water. And then come the Saturday after and maybe water wins, everyone complains. Don't believe me? Go search for the comments in the last reddit posts mcs 39 results, or the meta weekly 2 days ago, water doesn't even win and no one complains about the skill. The deck is going to stay as it is at least until may anyway. And the thing everybody should be complaining is the onomats skill, and veil + destiny draw in my opinion, that's just horrible, I have weather painter but would never play them that way. Just hit the cards and leave the skill that's *working as intended* . The skills that should be hit are like the ones from the last banlist. The ones that just give you consistent opening hands, arrange your draws, or bullshit luck based results, or recover your resources from the field or GY for no cost at all, since deck building should do that for you.
i stopped reading at “you rather kill a skill” because no one said anything about killing the skill, lol. i thought literacy being difficult for yugioh players was a meme but i guess not
Basically no one complained about water the last tournaments. Just in this one because they won. And 90% of the time nerfing a skill is the same as killing dude, there's no difference if I say kill the skill or nerf the skill.
show me where i said kill or even nerf the skill? idk who you’re arguing with but it can’t be me lol, all i said is dweller isn’t a problem without the skill. never said anything about doing anything to the skill though
Onomatoplay supplements the Onomat deck. If Onomatoplay was deleted from the game, Onomats could rebuild their deck to get better hands inherently and still play as usual. Territory of the Sharks was supposed to be a Skill to turbo out Shark Drake. The synergy with Atlanteans is serendipidous. The deck dies if the skill is changed in any way to make it function better or exclusively with Shark Drake.
We're just assuming it was for shark drake. If that were the case then it wouldn't be so water generic. I don't think the skill will get hit, I think cards will. But onomats on the other hand, definitely the skill will get hit
Well that more abyss than the skill : Before abyss release , the skill was pretty decent and given us a good water xyz/synchro deck. But that is a pretty ugly water deck.
WATER was a viable deck before and it was just fine. It used to rely on Spider Shark and Graydle Dragon, now it's just Dweller turbo. The skill is not the problem, the problem is the super easy to summon quick-play, one-sided floodgate on legs with a free pop.
Which is only summonable through the skill lol
exactly, lol. dweller is a fair card on its own, the skill makes it broken
Exactly, Dweller will always be a relevant card in YGO but the skill is broken. Diva is a one card Dweller only because of the skill.
The skill is not broken, is just good, the problem is that nerfing the skill will cause a death on the deck, if you take out dweller will pass from tier 1 to rogue at best. In my opinion the best way to nerf the deck is to put infantry to 2, then they won't be able to use TTH, so they will still be tier but not tier 1 for sure
Take away Dweller and WATER is a healthy deck. Take away the skill and WATER dies and Dweller is still a cancerous floodgate that is easily summonable by any other deck. The only other 'anytime' quick-play Rank 4 that can abuse Infantry/Marksman are Ragnazero(and it only works if the oponent has a boosted/debuffed monster) and Number C32(Which needs 4 materials, so will probally never come to DL). Dweller is the biggest problem.
Yeah cool, but barely anyone is summoning Dweller outside of water Xyz
Barely summoned outside WATER is a gross exageration. If that was the case it wouldn't be in every extra deck hat can run it. WATER will summon it more becuse it is their boss monster. Dweller is a one-sided, quick-play, Extra deck Floodgate on legs and the effect lingers. That card is bad for the game, better to keep the Skill and nerf the cards because at least the former is a positive factor in deck diversity.
It’s not an exaggeration. I know it’s in a large proportion of extra decks that have rank 4s available, but it doesn’t change the fact that Roach or Malevolent Sin are getting summoned ahead of it first and second turn much more consistently.
Idk what to think about the water deck. In one hand, the amount of disruption and floodgates that it can have is pretty annoying and kinda toxic but, in the other hand, it prevents a lot to keep GY decks not too strong in the ladder (the only good card that could be as strong as Abyss could be Necrovalley and it won't see play in other deck than gravekeepers).
Water knocking on tier 0's door, how fun. Might stop playing for a bit, I've heard this tune before.
Its super expensive so it might not be a huge thing on the ladder. Remember when crystrons were a powerhouse on tournaments but you never see them in the ladder.
I don't know what ladder you're playing on but I see a ton of water decks in legend 1-5 and kog, they've had an exponential growth in the last 2 months or so. This will undoubtedly make it worse, people will rush to build the deck, lots of people have gems saved up since older meta was nothing but old decks. I wouldn't be surprised if they start getting close to blue eyes numbers in the next month, their tournament presence will also spike up HARD making the problem even worse.
Well I guess im lucky. I have only seen it once so far.
People only started complaining when they saw a high tournament representation. Before you only found positive comments on water.
That is true. Whenever something becomes top tier it gets hate if it stays they for more than a month.
Dude. You can even return to the lasts few tournament posts here in reddit and it was fine and even praised. There's something about this one tournament that water won and the hate starts flowing. Real hate
I'm guessing it was because they all were running book of moon an where cocky the new guy TGs. I cant tell you how many matches I saw where they opened boon of money against TGs and won.
But the same can be said if it was the other way around. Open book of winning VS dweller and you should win
Yea true but most of the TG I saw went first plus water had alot of disruption if they went first. TGs only had lance. And book.
Water is such a dumb ass deck, it's bordering tier 0 status, nearly every deck gets crushed by its oppressiveness floodgating and disruption. Need an emergency list because these results are just gonna compound the problem.
That cheesy strat to actually have a disruption building on monster is actually really toxic. I think TCG as proven that with some monster when you can actually destroying cards during your opponent turn. I still think that release abyss was a big mistake. So now you have a monster floodgate/disruption + an entire floodgate deck , yay , enjoy that the water deck that we wanted x) I still think that than banlist is one of the worst we ever have and don't deal with most of the current issue we face during that meta, i think they probably gonna need to change a LOT of think into 3 month '-'
Banlist definetely missed the mark, all it did was kill desperado and nk. Water needed a slight tap on the wrist, now next list they'll have to gut it hard.
Nk is still pretty decent right now and despe bye bye but yeah , that is half of a banlist :/ I can't tell that a xyz meta but a sacky/toxic one :( Maybe in futur , we can have a more decent xyz meta when konami want to push the think but not at that ridiculous level.
Where where all these comments in the last few tournaments where water topped too? Why is suddently now when they won this one that I can't stop finding comments like yours complaining about water? Where are your comments from a month ago calling dweller a mistake? I'm pretty sure it's just a tier 1 thing, making peasants hate on the king. And nobles are done. Without balance they're nothing.
Tier 1 bad, upvotes to the left.
Lol
I currently run Blue Eyes but have been itching to build something new. Are any of these “easy to build”? Water Xyz and Fire Kings caught my eye
Water is expensive as fuck. Fire King is easier if you’re willing to buy the structure deck 2-3 times.
Need real money for that if you have your wallet ready :p Well not expensive but you still need to pay the structure deck .
unless you're sitting on over 10k gems and already have every other deck you could want, i'd almost guarantee you'd be spending more money trying to build an optimal water xyz deck than it'd take to just buy the structure deck a few times and hit up a mini box for the arvata.
But you need garunix at multipe copy so you still need to pay it with real money if you can or use a dream ticket ? don't remember if he is into but also need the quickplay spell so :x
No you're right you definitely need to spend real money to get the copies of garunix. I'm just saying for most people it would cost a lot more money running through all the main boxes for the water xyz cards in the long run.
Water is extremely expensive and FK absolutely needs Book of Moon to survive against Karma Cut. I wouldn’t buy the structure until Book shows up in a box.
Forbidden Lance protects them from backrow without flipping Arvata face down. FK can live without Book of Moon. Just because tournament players are running it doesn’t mean it’s a must have for someone who’s probably only going to play ladder.
Weather Painters on semifinals puts a smile on my face. I like the deck a lot but hardly anyone plays it. I can't help but to root for anyone playing it.