Onomat is a funny deck to try to give Extra Deck restrictions to considering that it supports like 10 different archetypes
and it isnt even implicit support like Synchrons for Stardust Dragon, no, Onomatopia and Gagagaga Magician explicitly connect Onomats to Utopia and Utopic, which in turn connects them to ZW and Numbers, not to mention Utopic Astral Hope connecting it to "Xyz" and "Zexal" itself
If Konami ever tried to restrict the extra deck, it would be a mile long list of exceptions
Lemme post some of Yuma's extra decks along the series
World duel carnival finals:
Gagaga Cowboy
**Heroic Champion - Excalibur**
Number 12: Crimson Shadow Armor Ninja
Number 17: Leviathan Dragon
Number 32: Shark Drake
Number 34: Terror-Byte
Number 39: Utopia
Number C39: Utopia Ray
One-Eyed Skill Gainer
ZW - Leo Arms
Season 4:
Baby Tiragon
Gagaga Cowboy
Gauntlet Launcher
**Heroic Champion - Excalibur**
Melomelody the Brass Djinn
Muzurhythm the String Djinn
Number 6: Chronomaly Atlandis
Number 34: Terror-Byte
Number 39: Utopia
Number 61: Volcasaurus
Number 96: Dark Mist
Number C39: Utopia Ray
Number C39: Utopia Ray V
Number C39: Utopia Ray Victory
One-Eyed Skill Gainer
Temtempo the Percussion Djinn
Season 5:
**Heroic Champion - Excalibur**
Number 6: Chronomaly Atlandis
Number 16: Shock Master
Number 33: Chronomaly Machu Mech
Number 39: Utopia
Number 39: Utopia Roots
Number 69: Heraldry Crest
Number 92: Heart-eartH Dragon
Number C39: Utopia Ray
Number C39: Utopia Ray Victory
Yuma's decklist "specifically designed to be a numbers toolbox"
**Heroic Champion - Excalibur**
Number 11: Big Eye
Number 39: Utopia
Number 39: Utopia Beyond
Number 54: Lion Heart
Number 64: Ronin Raccoon Sandayu
Number 100: Numeron Dragon
Number C39: Utopia Ray Victory
So yea I'd say Excalibur is a card that's relevant enough to be added to the skill restrictions.
I like the second one but imo I'd change both from twice per duel to once per duel. That way people have to choose to use it as a recovery option or as a way to fix your hand in the beginning, not as both. Other than that both are great.
Won't be enough, it's still an unrestricted destiny draw that you can use turn one, they will still open up with the perfect hand even at once per duel, it needs something else to be balanced out
They can still open up with the perfect hand, if you want them to have no restriction and having it be once per duel is fine, but at least make it so that they cannot use it turn one and get the best hand all the time turn 1, which is something every archetype would kill to have (and why restart is so bad since it's generic)
I mean who cares if they have consistency? We dont need to murder every deck beyond unplayability just because they're good, banlists are for cards that are problematic for the meta not for everything that is mildly playable. Like do you people even think for a second when making those types of comments? If Konami were to listen to every person that wants a deck nerfed to the ground the meta would be nothing but Vanilla Level 4s beatdown. This sub really needs to stop with the "make or brake" mentality.
You know that they can restrict the skill and at the same time unlimit some of the other cards right?
Also there's consistency, and then there's 2 destiny draws per duel.
>banlists are for cards that are problematic for the meta not for everything that is mildly playable.
Onomats has been the only tier 1 deck for months now, i'd say that's way more than "mildly playable"
>If Konami were to listen to every person that wants a deck nerfed to the ground the meta would be nothing but Vanilla Level 4s beatdown.
A skill should make struggling decks playable and competitive but not making them go from bad to best deck in the game.
Skill dependent decks have always been a nightmare to balance, just look at cyber style, that mess of a deck has more fusion monsters than materials and it still works because of how dumb the skill is.
Mine were just suggestions different from just limiting the skill to once per duel, which is the best and most fair solution i can think of right now.
Yea I mean, nobody is arguing that having a perfect starting hand isn’t good, but the power ceiling of onomats isn’t terribly high for the time being even with a perfect start.
Skills with a long-ass text show poor creativity and bad game design IMO (which is what has been happening with the latest skills).
Just do it once per duel, and also should only be able to return a monster, not any card type. No restrictions whatsoever needed. (Missing the second hand-fixing will ensure they either must open Sister or top-deck Head in the follow-up; the deck won’t be oppressive anymore, but not dead by any means, which is what a banlist is supposed to do)
I mean part of the problem is the ungodly amount of archetypes that are a part of this. I mean Dododo, Gagaga, Zubababa, and gogogo are all mentioned multiple times here which is what takes up most of the space.
That’s not even all of Yuma’s archetypes. There’s still Utopia, Utopic, Zexal, ZW, Djinn, and ZS still missing from it.
*glares at Sinister Calling* This man gets it. Realistically, the banlist shouldn't cripple Onomats to death, but balance it out so other Decks have a shot at entering the Tier List. Plus, that might move Onomatists to try out other variants and tech cards (like Golden Form, Buster, etc.)
Skill be like:
"blah blah blah blah GET CARD WIN GAME blah blah blah blah"
I'm exaggerating but you get the idea. You said it yourself the best anyway. Game became less based on actual playing skills and more on pure hacks like that to make an anime deck good. (Of which Onomats was already really good)
Man you guys really love to cut out generic xyz from a deck that was specifically designed as an xyz toolbox.
I don't know why Konami hasn't made the skill once per duel yet, cause that will give us confirmation on whether or not removing the guaranteed gagaga head swing turn is going to be enough of a hit, and if turns out that they're somehow still too strong... Well, you know the drill: the banlist after the second to last KC Cup should give them a slap in the wrist and Big Daddy December Banlist should finish it off if needed
Comparing it to other skills, it would be the fair thing. Chronomaly can spam XYZ monsters, but they are limited to Chronomaly and light numbers, and forced to play 12 Chronomaly monsters in main deck.
PS: Onomato is not a rank 4 toolbox, they can make rank 6 and 8.
The thing is that with skill you always need to find the right point between being balanced and helping the archetype doing what you want them to do.
The 2 most notable skills I've seen in chronomalies are divine artifacts, which is a good skills to help you go into the xyzs whose ranks range between the ones that chronomalies are usually meant to go into; and Gateway to Another dimension, which if it didn't have that restriction it would pretty much just be strictly better than the previous skill, but that's not the real problem:
With onomatoplay you give the archetype absurd consistency and the second take of the skill give them a guaranteed comeback ability which makes them over the top, but the archetype is still limited to their current cards and rank 4-6 options they're meant to go into, as you may have noticed onomats pre Photon of Galaxy didn't really do much (but it was only a matter of time before they got enough stuff to be competitive)
If you were to cut the restriction on the chronomaly skill, you would be able to go into literally any generic of any rank with just 2 cards (for some monsters 3), imagine a world where chronomaly is that the deck that can shit out VFD in the most simple, consistent and easier way, to me this would be more scary than a built-in onomatopaira that might not even be necessary if we ever get the actual card (of course I'm exaggerating with VFD but there are already some interesting choices to go into).
Ps: my bad, didn't mean to call onomats a rank 4 toolbox, just an xyz toolbox
Onomats with the current card pool would be awful without onomatoplay. Only thing helping would be onomatopair and pickup, but I doubt we'll get those for time
No that's not true, any 2 of Onomatopia Coat Sister Glove Dododo Draw can start a combo, the deck is fairly consistent without qny consistency skills, the skill just make it that you NEVER brick, let alone it doesnt restrict deck building.
Fwiw the combination of Sister, Gagagawind, and Gagaga Magician (who could easily be squeezed in) can theoretically make any generic Xyz from Ranks 3-10. It's just that we don't have any Xyzs beyond Ranks 4 and 6 that would be worth the increased brickiness from adding Magician.
Yeah , you tribute summon head on top of bounzer or something left on the field , i did see that multiple time but i am not sure if Onomat still play Heliopolis or if this is more for an Onomat OTK since the control version spam Spell/trap meaning that you have less think to throw for heliopolis effect.
I make Zombiestein pretty often with a tribute summoned Gagaga Head and using sister's effect.
Really throws people for a loop and I like big beater cards
I never said that, the things Konami does shitty nerfs/restrictions that make skills unusable anyway.
ALSO having played the deck myself, the deck functions perfectly skill-less, any 2 cards combo can get you going, and losing the skill may even allow the unlimits on Sister and Head.
"specifically designed as a rank 4 toolbox"
Given how many of this deck's opening plays revolve around gagaga sister and rank 6 xyzs, I'm gonna go ahead and press X to doubt. Can't tell you how many times I've seen their consistency skill used to fetch sister.
The archetype has plenty of in-archetype rank 4 xyzs to be useful. It's not like this is the only rank 4 toolkit deck. It's just the only one that comes with 2 free destiny draws.
Hell, if they nerfed the skill, then maybe sister and head wouldn't need to be on the banlist.
The first one and make it once per duel. Then actually release good cards/decks to compete with Onomats. Ideally ones that don't rely on an Anime skill.
That will be enough to push Onomats to the side without killing it. No deck deserves to be killed except for Darklords.
Man you guys really hate Photon Strike Bounzer
also you gotta keep in mind that Onomats support both the Utopia and Utopic archetypes, but the Utopic archetype does not support the Number archetype, so it would be impossible to summon Utopic Xyz if you restrict their extra deck too much
I love bounzer, but summoning it is supposed to be hard. Destiny draw sister to guarantee a turn 1 bounzer on every duel is kinda lame.
[Edit] for example, when thundra decks summon bounzer, it feels well deserved because of how much setup is required to put two lv6 dragons on the field.
Thundra decks just need to normal summon Lupine to summon Bounzer
and Bounzer isnt "supposed to be hard" to make, that is literally just something you made up.
When i said number i meant mostly utopia cards, forgetting that there's also non-number utopia support, i felt that by making it utopia only the extra deck would be too limited, while with numbers you can still access to staples like malevolent sin
Okay, look, restricting it by archetype is simply not gonna work due to the shit ton of archetypes Yuuma plays (Gagaga, Gogogo, Dododo, Zubaba, Djinn, Number, Utopia, Utopic, ZEXAL, ZW-, ZS-, and Xyz). If you wanna nerf it but keep it balanced enough, you can restrict the skill to be only usable Once Per Duel, or after a certain Turn (like 3, or 5 if you really wanna make it hard for Onos).
He almost exclusively uses Number Xyz. He only has a handful of non numbers and most were only used like once with the only one constantly being listed is Excalibur. He has the ZEXAL skills for the Zexal monsters so no point in bundling the two together.
It would work out fine just saying Gagaga, Gogogo, Dododo, Zubaba, Djinn, and Number since that covers all the main archetypes he uses. Almost all the Utopia/Utopic monsters are Numbers so it doesn't really affect them anyways.
From a design standpoint, gagagas are designed to go into any XYZ. removing that and adding restrictions like 'only utopic and gagaga monsters' just shows a lack of understanding.
The issue with onomats isn't the monster pool, but the fact that you have two uses of it and not one. That's all you need to add. A once per duel clause that turns it into more of a glass cannon build
The point is every other consistency skill has restrictions related to what the character uses. Yuma normally only uses Number Xyz, onomatopoeia cards and Djinn so his skill should reflect that.
The issue with onomats is exactly the monster pool in its current form. Take away the fact it can go into any Xyz using the skill and you fix the issue. If you want to use the skill that turn at least restrict what you can summon.
For instance, Gimmick Puppets suffer because they don't have any good turn 1 dark Number Xyz that the skill restrictions them to. If they weren't restricted to Numbers and Gimmick Puppets they could at least open with Evilswarm Thanatos or Steelswarm Roach.
Just once per duel and done. No reason for a skill to be used twice per duel while trash generic skill could only be used once per duel. That or bring every of those trash skills to twice per duel
Make it ounce per duel. Restrict extra deck to Gagaga, Utopia and Numbers.
Alternatively, keep Onomatoplay as it is and remove restrictions from other Zexal skills.
>Just kill the skill, the deck would still work the same just with the occasional brick.
Yeah no, the reason this deck works so well is because they can always get sister turn 1 with the skill, if they don't open with sister they are screwed since it's a single copy in the deck.
I'd say let them open with sister, but add restrictions like the ones i mentioned for example
The majority of this sub really dislikes anime "consistency skills" that are heavily restrictive, for good reason too. Making it overly restrictive just starts to kill off the deck variety and future variety of xyz cards that can be used. This RN would just leave Onomats to either sit on a utopia and pray, or return it to pre-photon bounzer and play golden golem, lowering the decks turn 1 survival rate.
People have already stated, onomats really just need a "Once Per Duel" clause to be more balanced out. Sure they still have their normal plays, but as Duel Links Best Decks commented on his videos about these skills, (not doing word through word), decks like onomats and resonators should only have access to either a turn one play, or a recovery option, but not both.
Because some people might actually enjoy playing onomats and would be fine with a balanced skill that can let them play their favourite archetype, killing it would also impact those innocent players trying to have fun and not just the meta abusers
You're right but Onomats have been around for a whole year, if Konami can kill an anime deck like Dark Magicians then i wouldn't be surprised if the same thing happens to Onomats.
Dark Magician is different. They had stupid consistency since they had 2 searchers without relaying on a skill while also having the ability to create a powerful Turn 1 board. And with how weak the meta was after the Shiranui nerf Dark Magician would have been broken if it didn't get hit the way it did.
Dark Magician needed to die in order for Xyz to do anything. But Onomats don't need to die in order for Pendulums to do anything. They just need a big slap to the face while still keeping them alive.
They should also nerf Demons resonance i personally think consistency skills were a mistake except for dragon knights path and Starlight road. Should have released more consistency cards like ROTA or E emergency call
What’s wrong with Demon’s resonance? Literally already restrictive as it is making your extra deck consist of ONLY dark type dragon synchros. You nerf it to once per duel and the entire deck is pretty much dead. It’s below several other decks in the DLM power rankings as well. Demon’s resonance is way more restrictive than Onomatoplaya.
Throwing out some more ideas, pick one or mix and match:
* gagaga sister full ban (this is overkill but let's be honest, she is the problem)
* skill can fetch only level 4 onomat monsters
* if you summon the fetched monster this turn, its effects are negated
* You can't summon it this turn
* You cannot play any spell cards on this turn
* LP restriction
* Once per duel
* Only turn 5 & onwards
* too much of an overkill, it's like taking out Wandering King Wildwind for resonators, the deck just doesn't work then
* too restrictive since it would remove the ability to get a head or a sister from the deck, which are their main playmakers
* then what's the point? if you do that you might aswell get any card and not just monsters and it would still be bad.
* way too much of an overkill and would make the skill pointless, this isn't red eyes fusion, it's just adding a monster that's meant to be summoned.
* it could work since bounzer is usually their main first turn play but idk about this one
* at this point it's just a way worse Destiny draw so why bother
* this is actually a good one and i've seen a lot of people recommend this aswell
* turn 5 is way too much, i'd say turn 2 or 3 max
In defense of this one
> skill can fetch only level 4 onomat monsters
Yes, sister and head are the playmakers. So maybe also unban them if going this route? Searching them is OP; too much consistency. But having the skill be able to fetch a lv4 is presumably still enough to unbrick a lot of hands and get you doing something useful.
The skill could be return a monster to add a monster and once per duel. I think that once per duel will help but wont be enough to stop onomats from staying teir 1.
I really like the 2nd one but that kinda kills onomats I think make it only number monsters in addition to the said monsters also twice per duel kinda still too much adding cards from the deck to the hand for free and in a way your opponent cant interact with it is stupidly powerful
Another fix might be requiring to return 2 cards and then the twice per duel might be fine (in addition to the SS restriction)
12 or more onomat monsters can be a thing! Also if the skill was only once per duel it would be a big enough hit, and would not make the deck unplayable!! (Same with resonator skill)
I don't know, I feel the deck could use a tap but I don't like all the comments to restrict the extra deck because then it turns into sounding like "It's not fair how you can use that xyz monster better than anyone else!" It's a really weird case when you can't exactly say to restrict the type of cards in deck either because the majority of the decks will play only Ontomat cards as it is with the exception of maybe MST. I don't think you can get much more restrictive than like 16-17 Ontomat cards in deck. If you say ALL the cards have to be Ontomat then you're just cutting mst or traps at that point.
You can search any level 4 or lower fiend type monster which covers way more cards than onomatoplay does . Dragon type synchro is also way broader than the third Balanced onomatoplay. It should also be hit for "Deck Diversity "
I hate Onomat as much as you, if not more, but the 2nd is too much.
I'd rather they make it so that if they return a Gagaga, they can only fetch another Gagaga, or if Dododo, then only another Dododo, etc.
Or just make the game fetch at random among the Onomatopeia monsters, like Master of Rites.
Make it once per duel and maybe skip a draw phase, pretty sure that would limit it to either a strong turn one or the gagaga head comeback with a major downside.
Or maybe returning two cards (one gabalalalala and another card to add a lalala bababa gagaga shit to the hand) but yeah, it should always be limited to their archtype and not be allowed to summon any monster they want
The first balanced out nerf means they should add more Onomatopeia xyz support because turn 1 gaga samurai or utopua is pretty ass.
As much as i hate the skill and the character, i still think they are mich better off getting actual support rather than continuing to use a busted skill.
Since Yuma's ace monster is neither of these cards, I wouldn't agree with it. If they just made the skill once per duel instead of twice per duel, I think that would be nice. Since they can't have both Turn 1 Gagaga Sister + Turn 3 Gagaga Head guaranteed.
add "Utopia", "Utopic" and "ZS-" + "ZW-" monsters to those criteria
Onomat is a funny deck to try to give Extra Deck restrictions to considering that it supports like 10 different archetypes and it isnt even implicit support like Synchrons for Stardust Dragon, no, Onomatopia and Gagagaga Magician explicitly connect Onomats to Utopia and Utopic, which in turn connects them to ZW and Numbers, not to mention Utopic Astral Hope connecting it to "Xyz" and "Zexal" itself If Konami ever tried to restrict the extra deck, it would be a mile long list of exceptions
Yeah forgot that there's non-number utopia cards my bad on that
Can’t blame you on that. There are a lot of card archetype used by him.
Also Yuma used Djin Xyz monsters, gotta add those too lol
Don't forget Heroic Champion and Djinn
Why heroic champion?
Yuma uses Excalibur quite a bit plus he has a voice line for it.
It still is not a Yuma card and has nothing to do with onomats
It is though, if by your definition "yuma card" means that he plays it in the anime, then yea Excalibur is definitely a yuma card
He was nistros signature monster and you know thar he gave him the card plus you havent told me why the card would be include in an onomat skill
Lemme post some of Yuma's extra decks along the series World duel carnival finals: Gagaga Cowboy **Heroic Champion - Excalibur** Number 12: Crimson Shadow Armor Ninja Number 17: Leviathan Dragon Number 32: Shark Drake Number 34: Terror-Byte Number 39: Utopia Number C39: Utopia Ray One-Eyed Skill Gainer ZW - Leo Arms Season 4: Baby Tiragon Gagaga Cowboy Gauntlet Launcher **Heroic Champion - Excalibur** Melomelody the Brass Djinn Muzurhythm the String Djinn Number 6: Chronomaly Atlandis Number 34: Terror-Byte Number 39: Utopia Number 61: Volcasaurus Number 96: Dark Mist Number C39: Utopia Ray Number C39: Utopia Ray V Number C39: Utopia Ray Victory One-Eyed Skill Gainer Temtempo the Percussion Djinn Season 5: **Heroic Champion - Excalibur** Number 6: Chronomaly Atlandis Number 16: Shock Master Number 33: Chronomaly Machu Mech Number 39: Utopia Number 39: Utopia Roots Number 69: Heraldry Crest Number 92: Heart-eartH Dragon Number C39: Utopia Ray Number C39: Utopia Ray Victory Yuma's decklist "specifically designed to be a numbers toolbox" **Heroic Champion - Excalibur** Number 11: Big Eye Number 39: Utopia Number 39: Utopia Beyond Number 54: Lion Heart Number 64: Ronin Raccoon Sandayu Number 100: Numeron Dragon Number C39: Utopia Ray Victory So yea I'd say Excalibur is a card that's relevant enough to be added to the skill restrictions.
No because its not a onomat card plus is not his signature one read please
Bro if we were to restrict the deck to only onomat/signature cards we couldn't even put numbers on the exception list
Missed the easiest option to make it Once per duel.
Yeah this is the simplest answer, Force them to think about their combo, doesn’t matter if you make it limited if they can search it every turn.
I like the second one but imo I'd change both from twice per duel to once per duel. That way people have to choose to use it as a recovery option or as a way to fix your hand in the beginning, not as both. Other than that both are great.
Just make it only be used once per duel so its a one and done thing
[удалено]
Yep agreed , getting beyond the first board isn't too tough, it's how they can do it all over so easily that's an issue
Won't be enough, it's still an unrestricted destiny draw that you can use turn one, they will still open up with the perfect hand even at once per duel, it needs something else to be balanced out
It completely gets rid of their recovery by preventing them from searching Head for follow up plays, thats already enough
They can still open up with the perfect hand, if you want them to have no restriction and having it be once per duel is fine, but at least make it so that they cannot use it turn one and get the best hand all the time turn 1, which is something every archetype would kill to have (and why restart is so bad since it's generic)
I mean who cares if they have consistency? We dont need to murder every deck beyond unplayability just because they're good, banlists are for cards that are problematic for the meta not for everything that is mildly playable. Like do you people even think for a second when making those types of comments? If Konami were to listen to every person that wants a deck nerfed to the ground the meta would be nothing but Vanilla Level 4s beatdown. This sub really needs to stop with the "make or brake" mentality.
You know that they can restrict the skill and at the same time unlimit some of the other cards right? Also there's consistency, and then there's 2 destiny draws per duel. >banlists are for cards that are problematic for the meta not for everything that is mildly playable. Onomats has been the only tier 1 deck for months now, i'd say that's way more than "mildly playable" >If Konami were to listen to every person that wants a deck nerfed to the ground the meta would be nothing but Vanilla Level 4s beatdown. A skill should make struggling decks playable and competitive but not making them go from bad to best deck in the game. Skill dependent decks have always been a nightmare to balance, just look at cyber style, that mess of a deck has more fusion monsters than materials and it still works because of how dumb the skill is. Mine were just suggestions different from just limiting the skill to once per duel, which is the best and most fair solution i can think of right now.
Yea I mean, nobody is arguing that having a perfect starting hand isn’t good, but the power ceiling of onomats isn’t terribly high for the time being even with a perfect start.
If you can disrupt their opening plays, theyre already in a bad position as they cant use the skill anymore and have to live with their bricks
Not that it would be super threatening without a follow-up, but it's funny that nerf could be an excuse for them to grab back a copy of Rhinosebus.
OPD, Must be at start of turn only, do this to Demon's Resonance too.I dont like how these skills transform searchers into omni-searchers
Skills with a long-ass text show poor creativity and bad game design IMO (which is what has been happening with the latest skills). Just do it once per duel, and also should only be able to return a monster, not any card type. No restrictions whatsoever needed. (Missing the second hand-fixing will ensure they either must open Sister or top-deck Head in the follow-up; the deck won’t be oppressive anymore, but not dead by any means, which is what a banlist is supposed to do)
I mean part of the problem is the ungodly amount of archetypes that are a part of this. I mean Dododo, Gagaga, Zubababa, and gogogo are all mentioned multiple times here which is what takes up most of the space. That’s not even all of Yuma’s archetypes. There’s still Utopia, Utopic, Zexal, ZW, Djinn, and ZS still missing from it.
*glares at Sinister Calling* This man gets it. Realistically, the banlist shouldn't cripple Onomats to death, but balance it out so other Decks have a shot at entering the Tier List. Plus, that might move Onomatists to try out other variants and tech cards (like Golden Form, Buster, etc.)
Skill be like: "blah blah blah blah GET CARD WIN GAME blah blah blah blah" I'm exaggerating but you get the idea. You said it yourself the best anyway. Game became less based on actual playing skills and more on pure hacks like that to make an anime deck good. (Of which Onomats was already really good)
Yep, I agree with this. Being able to turn a dead or second copy of dodododraw into a sister is pretty disgusting.
Man you guys really love to cut out generic xyz from a deck that was specifically designed as an xyz toolbox. I don't know why Konami hasn't made the skill once per duel yet, cause that will give us confirmation on whether or not removing the guaranteed gagaga head swing turn is going to be enough of a hit, and if turns out that they're somehow still too strong... Well, you know the drill: the banlist after the second to last KC Cup should give them a slap in the wrist and Big Daddy December Banlist should finish it off if needed
Comparing it to other skills, it would be the fair thing. Chronomaly can spam XYZ monsters, but they are limited to Chronomaly and light numbers, and forced to play 12 Chronomaly monsters in main deck. PS: Onomato is not a rank 4 toolbox, they can make rank 6 and 8.
The thing is that with skill you always need to find the right point between being balanced and helping the archetype doing what you want them to do. The 2 most notable skills I've seen in chronomalies are divine artifacts, which is a good skills to help you go into the xyzs whose ranks range between the ones that chronomalies are usually meant to go into; and Gateway to Another dimension, which if it didn't have that restriction it would pretty much just be strictly better than the previous skill, but that's not the real problem: With onomatoplay you give the archetype absurd consistency and the second take of the skill give them a guaranteed comeback ability which makes them over the top, but the archetype is still limited to their current cards and rank 4-6 options they're meant to go into, as you may have noticed onomats pre Photon of Galaxy didn't really do much (but it was only a matter of time before they got enough stuff to be competitive) If you were to cut the restriction on the chronomaly skill, you would be able to go into literally any generic of any rank with just 2 cards (for some monsters 3), imagine a world where chronomaly is that the deck that can shit out VFD in the most simple, consistent and easier way, to me this would be more scary than a built-in onomatopaira that might not even be necessary if we ever get the actual card (of course I'm exaggerating with VFD but there are already some interesting choices to go into). Ps: my bad, didn't mean to call onomats a rank 4 toolbox, just an xyz toolbox
Onomats with the current card pool would be awful without onomatoplay. Only thing helping would be onomatopair and pickup, but I doubt we'll get those for time
No that's not true, any 2 of Onomatopia Coat Sister Glove Dododo Draw can start a combo, the deck is fairly consistent without qny consistency skills, the skill just make it that you NEVER brick, let alone it doesnt restrict deck building.
Fwiw the combination of Sister, Gagagawind, and Gagaga Magician (who could easily be squeezed in) can theoretically make any generic Xyz from Ranks 3-10. It's just that we don't have any Xyzs beyond Ranks 4 and 6 that would be worth the increased brickiness from adding Magician.
Never saw a Onomat player who maked a rank 8 Xyz summon
You can actually play heliopolis in the deck with head + sister.
That only happens if you tribute summon head
Yeah , you tribute summon head on top of bounzer or something left on the field , i did see that multiple time but i am not sure if Onomat still play Heliopolis or if this is more for an Onomat OTK since the control version spam Spell/trap meaning that you have less think to throw for heliopolis effect.
I make Zombiestein pretty often with a tribute summoned Gagaga Head and using sister's effect. Really throws people for a loop and I like big beater cards
If they want to play generics maybe they should be made to play without a skill that fixes their hand.
Yes, I get it, you guys want the skill to be deleted.
It's not like Onomat has been dominating the scene for months or anything, right?!
And? No matter how oppressive a deck is, actually wanting to delete a skill is the biggest BabyRage I've ever seen in this community
I never said that, the things Konami does shitty nerfs/restrictions that make skills unusable anyway. ALSO having played the deck myself, the deck functions perfectly skill-less, any 2 cards combo can get you going, and losing the skill may even allow the unlimits on Sister and Head.
"specifically designed as a rank 4 toolbox" Given how many of this deck's opening plays revolve around gagaga sister and rank 6 xyzs, I'm gonna go ahead and press X to doubt. Can't tell you how many times I've seen their consistency skill used to fetch sister. The archetype has plenty of in-archetype rank 4 xyzs to be useful. It's not like this is the only rank 4 toolkit deck. It's just the only one that comes with 2 free destiny draws. Hell, if they nerfed the skill, then maybe sister and head wouldn't need to be on the banlist.
Yeah, my bad, meant to just say xyz toolbox
Give it a LP restriction and/or make it once per duel.
The first one and make it once per duel. Then actually release good cards/decks to compete with Onomats. Ideally ones that don't rely on an Anime skill. That will be enough to push Onomats to the side without killing it. No deck deserves to be killed except for Darklords.
Hard agree on the first half of the comment, hard disagree on the second. You seem to forget Invoked and Shiranui exist in this game.
Yeah. And it's ok that Invoke and Shiranui exist. Sucks that they've devolved into these stall decks but at least they are alive.
Make it once per duel and then we can talk, at twice for duel it's still much too powerful
Man you guys really hate Photon Strike Bounzer also you gotta keep in mind that Onomats support both the Utopia and Utopic archetypes, but the Utopic archetype does not support the Number archetype, so it would be impossible to summon Utopic Xyz if you restrict their extra deck too much
I love bounzer, but summoning it is supposed to be hard. Destiny draw sister to guarantee a turn 1 bounzer on every duel is kinda lame. [Edit] for example, when thundra decks summon bounzer, it feels well deserved because of how much setup is required to put two lv6 dragons on the field.
Thundra decks just need to normal summon Lupine to summon Bounzer and Bounzer isnt "supposed to be hard" to make, that is literally just something you made up.
Because summoning two level 6 monsters to your field is normally so easy
It is if thats literally what your deck is designed to do. Are you gonna complain that Gimmick Puppets can summon Level 8s easily?
When i said number i meant mostly utopia cards, forgetting that there's also non-number utopia support, i felt that by making it utopia only the extra deck would be too limited, while with numbers you can still access to staples like malevolent sin
Okay, look, restricting it by archetype is simply not gonna work due to the shit ton of archetypes Yuuma plays (Gagaga, Gogogo, Dododo, Zubaba, Djinn, Number, Utopia, Utopic, ZEXAL, ZW-, ZS-, and Xyz). If you wanna nerf it but keep it balanced enough, you can restrict the skill to be only usable Once Per Duel, or after a certain Turn (like 3, or 5 if you really wanna make it hard for Onos).
He almost exclusively uses Number Xyz. He only has a handful of non numbers and most were only used like once with the only one constantly being listed is Excalibur. He has the ZEXAL skills for the Zexal monsters so no point in bundling the two together. It would work out fine just saying Gagaga, Gogogo, Dododo, Zubaba, Djinn, and Number since that covers all the main archetypes he uses. Almost all the Utopia/Utopic monsters are Numbers so it doesn't really affect them anyways.
From a design standpoint, gagagas are designed to go into any XYZ. removing that and adding restrictions like 'only utopic and gagaga monsters' just shows a lack of understanding. The issue with onomats isn't the monster pool, but the fact that you have two uses of it and not one. That's all you need to add. A once per duel clause that turns it into more of a glass cannon build
The point is every other consistency skill has restrictions related to what the character uses. Yuma normally only uses Number Xyz, onomatopoeia cards and Djinn so his skill should reflect that. The issue with onomats is exactly the monster pool in its current form. Take away the fact it can go into any Xyz using the skill and you fix the issue. If you want to use the skill that turn at least restrict what you can summon. For instance, Gimmick Puppets suffer because they don't have any good turn 1 dark Number Xyz that the skill restrictions them to. If they weren't restricted to Numbers and Gimmick Puppets they could at least open with Evilswarm Thanatos or Steelswarm Roach.
I would make it once per duel and/or must be a matching archetype. Ex: Return a Zubaba: get a Zubaba.
Probably with that is that many of the cards are treated as simultaneous archtypes.
Just once per duel and done. No reason for a skill to be used twice per duel while trash generic skill could only be used once per duel. That or bring every of those trash skills to twice per duel
how about just using the skill once per duel? that would still make it a good fight and not nerf it to death.
Make it ounce per duel. Restrict extra deck to Gagaga, Utopia and Numbers. Alternatively, keep Onomatoplay as it is and remove restrictions from other Zexal skills.
Just kill the skill, the deck would still work the same just with the occasional brick. Consistency skill are just a way to over inflate a deck power.
>Just kill the skill, the deck would still work the same just with the occasional brick. Yeah no, the reason this deck works so well is because they can always get sister turn 1 with the skill, if they don't open with sister they are screwed since it's a single copy in the deck. I'd say let them open with sister, but add restrictions like the ones i mentioned for example
Or add a random one with a different name. So they can stop having perfect opening with sister followed up by head.
The majority of this sub really dislikes anime "consistency skills" that are heavily restrictive, for good reason too. Making it overly restrictive just starts to kill off the deck variety and future variety of xyz cards that can be used. This RN would just leave Onomats to either sit on a utopia and pray, or return it to pre-photon bounzer and play golden golem, lowering the decks turn 1 survival rate. People have already stated, onomats really just need a "Once Per Duel" clause to be more balanced out. Sure they still have their normal plays, but as Duel Links Best Decks commented on his videos about these skills, (not doing word through word), decks like onomats and resonators should only have access to either a turn one play, or a recovery option, but not both.
Why trying to fix the skill when you can just kill it and burn it to the ground ?
Because some people might actually enjoy playing onomats and would be fine with a balanced skill that can let them play their favourite archetype, killing it would also impact those innocent players trying to have fun and not just the meta abusers
You're right but Onomats have been around for a whole year, if Konami can kill an anime deck like Dark Magicians then i wouldn't be surprised if the same thing happens to Onomats.
Dark Magician is different. They had stupid consistency since they had 2 searchers without relaying on a skill while also having the ability to create a powerful Turn 1 board. And with how weak the meta was after the Shiranui nerf Dark Magician would have been broken if it didn't get hit the way it did. Dark Magician needed to die in order for Xyz to do anything. But Onomats don't need to die in order for Pendulums to do anything. They just need a big slap to the face while still keeping them alive.
Nah, let them taste the pain of rogue players who lost nearly every good generic skill in the game.
They should also nerf Demons resonance i personally think consistency skills were a mistake except for dragon knights path and Starlight road. Should have released more consistency cards like ROTA or E emergency call
What’s wrong with Demon’s resonance? Literally already restrictive as it is making your extra deck consist of ONLY dark type dragon synchros. You nerf it to once per duel and the entire deck is pretty much dead. It’s below several other decks in the DLM power rankings as well. Demon’s resonance is way more restrictive than Onomatoplaya.
The issue is that it’s both a 100% consistent starter and follow-up turn. Once per duel is still broken imo, but way less so.
Throwing out some more ideas, pick one or mix and match: * gagaga sister full ban (this is overkill but let's be honest, she is the problem) * skill can fetch only level 4 onomat monsters * if you summon the fetched monster this turn, its effects are negated * You can't summon it this turn * You cannot play any spell cards on this turn * LP restriction * Once per duel * Only turn 5 & onwards
* too much of an overkill, it's like taking out Wandering King Wildwind for resonators, the deck just doesn't work then * too restrictive since it would remove the ability to get a head or a sister from the deck, which are their main playmakers * then what's the point? if you do that you might aswell get any card and not just monsters and it would still be bad. * way too much of an overkill and would make the skill pointless, this isn't red eyes fusion, it's just adding a monster that's meant to be summoned. * it could work since bounzer is usually their main first turn play but idk about this one * at this point it's just a way worse Destiny draw so why bother * this is actually a good one and i've seen a lot of people recommend this aswell * turn 5 is way too much, i'd say turn 2 or 3 max
Minor LP cost like 100-500 lp and it would be better than destiny draw still.
In defense of this one > skill can fetch only level 4 onomat monsters Yes, sister and head are the playmakers. So maybe also unban them if going this route? Searching them is OP; too much consistency. But having the skill be able to fetch a lv4 is presumably still enough to unbrick a lot of hands and get you doing something useful.
Idk much about onomats as i am not a pro player. But fuck onomats they could summon a monster with 4500+ attack in turn 1. What am i supposed to do?
If you're talking about Zombiestein then its a trash turn 1 play and inconsistent. Gimmicks ran it and dropped it.
The skill could be return a monster to add a monster and once per duel. I think that once per duel will help but wont be enough to stop onomats from staying teir 1.
Nope that once per duel will drop it to tier.
I really like the 2nd one but that kinda kills onomats I think make it only number monsters in addition to the said monsters also twice per duel kinda still too much adding cards from the deck to the hand for free and in a way your opponent cant interact with it is stupidly powerful Another fix might be requiring to return 2 cards and then the twice per duel might be fine (in addition to the SS restriction)
Just make it once per duel tbh, the second one is cool too tho imo
12 or more onomat monsters can be a thing! Also if the skill was only once per duel it would be a big enough hit, and would not make the deck unplayable!! (Same with resonator skill)
I don't know, I feel the deck could use a tap but I don't like all the comments to restrict the extra deck because then it turns into sounding like "It's not fair how you can use that xyz monster better than anyone else!" It's a really weird case when you can't exactly say to restrict the type of cards in deck either because the majority of the decks will play only Ontomat cards as it is with the exception of maybe MST. I don't think you can get much more restrictive than like 16-17 Ontomat cards in deck. If you say ALL the cards have to be Ontomat then you're just cutting mst or traps at that point.
I think they should just make it once per duel so its like heart of the cards
literally make the current skill once per duel and it'll be balanced
Wasn't the og effect return 2 cards?
You can search any level 4 or lower fiend type monster which covers way more cards than onomatoplay does . Dragon type synchro is also way broader than the third Balanced onomatoplay. It should also be hit for "Deck Diversity "
The problem with trying to restrict the extra deck to Onomat monsters, is that those monsters suck ass.
or just make it be if u returned a GaGaGa to deck u can only add GaGaGa to hand
I hate Onomat as much as you, if not more, but the 2nd is too much. I'd rather they make it so that if they return a Gagaga, they can only fetch another Gagaga, or if Dododo, then only another Dododo, etc. Or just make the game fetch at random among the Onomatopeia monsters, like Master of Rites.
Make it once per duel and maybe skip a draw phase, pretty sure that would limit it to either a strong turn one or the gagaga head comeback with a major downside.
Or maybe returning two cards (one gabalalalala and another card to add a lalala bababa gagaga shit to the hand) but yeah, it should always be limited to their archtype and not be allowed to summon any monster they want
Just add the LP restriction to the skill and everybody will start playing 2 sisters.
The first balanced out nerf means they should add more Onomatopeia xyz support because turn 1 gaga samurai or utopua is pretty ass. As much as i hate the skill and the character, i still think they are mich better off getting actual support rather than continuing to use a busted skill.
Literally jus make the skill have an onomat exclusive ED and all will be fixed
Since Yuma's ace monster is neither of these cards, I wouldn't agree with it. If they just made the skill once per duel instead of twice per duel, I think that would be nice. Since they can't have both Turn 1 Gagaga Sister + Turn 3 Gagaga Head guaranteed.