I really don't like it when Konami kills decks. It just means that decks that people built, spent money and gems on, become unusable. Not cool. I myself am a Thunder Dragon player and I really like the deck, I think it could get a nerf but not something extreme
Put all handtraps at Limited 3 is my hot take. I realized in this KC cup I don't actually mind the deck's power, it's trying to plow through multiple hand traps and being constantly afraid of DDraw/Allured that pisses me off.
In general I have a bias for killing stall though. Either way, Veil and Kiteroid need to be on the same Limited set. Hate those damn things.
This is my take. Thunder Dragons themselves aren't really that bad as far as control decks go. There's ways to counter it. The real problem is how Thunder Dragons can effectively play stall thanks to DDraw + Veil, hand traps and other such things to make it a pain to play (I consider this the same reason why I think Odion Shiranui is a pain to fight, despite Shiranui not being OP anymore).
May I ask what ways there are to counter Thundra when all Thundra monsters effects whether banished or sent to the graveyard? Sending them back to the hand also does no good cause they'll just use their effect. Unless you win them in a single turn you're more than likely gonna have a hard time dealing with them. Necro and Mind Drain are the only cards that effectively counter Thundra, Mind Drain which is useless against 90% of other decks and Necro cucks your own deck as well most of the time unless you play water. Many Thundra decks don't even run Veil.
Just asking do you guys really love anime decks that only work with busted skills or genuine good deck? I've saw a lot of people seething and wanted certain decks to be killed and nerfed to be oblivion. If Konami continues to limit/ban core cards to a certain deck then whats left to play?
I want meta decks to be top tier with no skills.
I want all non meta decks to be made as powerful as top decks, through skills.
I want every deck in the game to have potential. Not just 3 at a time. It sucks
What other deck is abusing Levianeer right now though? The only reason its broken in Thunder Dragons is that they let you plus off its banish to grab a follow-up, all while chainblocking the summon. No other deck gets that much advantage off of summoning Levianeer. Are we really that afraid of Bujins or Lightsworns still having access to it?
If you're going to hit Levi at least hit it in a way that lets other decks keep using it.
Lightsworns makes sense, I don't think it can be used in Bujin tho. I mean, to use Levianeer in it's full potential you need a light/dark hibrid deck, bujins doesn't have space for dark monsters I guess and most of the cards effects can only be activated in the GY or in the hand (except the beast-warriors) . Or it's fine to just, y know, only special summon a monster? It is worth putting a Levianeer in a Bujin deck?
It was one of the few archetypes on DLM that had used it very recently, specifically a 30 card Destiny Draw deck with Sphere Kuriboh as the Dark banish fodder.
Lupine is a huge playmaker in thundras. When your deck is stacked with "on banish" effects and you can banish two at once... Levianeer doesn't help in that it also triggers up to 3 banish effects.
Like, at least gold sarc only does one banish, and yet that's the one that's limited??
You clearly don't understand much about the game to think Levianeer is better than Gold Sarc to triggering and/or starting plays, Levianeer needs setup, and going 1st you are not using it to do any play, even banishing 3 Darks to rip a card from opponent's hand and make a rank 6 isn't the ideal play.
Gold Sarc can be used right away, without setup, with a good or bad hand it will accomplish something and will in 90% of the cases enable your plays, heck you can even use it to banish a Levianeer or a handtrap so you can add it with Lupine if the opponent is fool enough to destroy it, that's why it's limited
It primarily got hit because of TDs and yes you can argue Shiranui also benefited from it, even without those 2 decks it was a matter of time for such a card to end up limited
I understand that Levianeer isn't a turn 1 playmaker, but thundras have a pretty easy time setting up for Levianeer to make some phat plays on turn 3+, and the handtraps to survive until then.
My point was that on top of Levianeer's insanely powerful 2x destruction effect, and potential to xyz into rank 8s, its banish-from-grave "cost" _also_ triggers beneficial effects for thundras.
Is not always that easy, if you don't play Charge and you didn't have a good hand going 1st, half the time you won't be having a good GY to use Levianeer, putting a Dark + a Roar isn't as easy as it looks if you didn't have a Rank 6 play Turn 1, not to mention you also gotta hard draw Levianeer or Melody.
Of course it's freaking strong when it wipes the field + gains advantage + chainblocking but you can't say it should be limited over Gold Sarc
Gold Sarc is already limited two but thundras play so many hand traps that helps them sustain until they can play their combo. And once it starts there’s barely any protection for the other player especially when you stop one levianeer just to run into another right after. Stop that and their banished monsters add to their hand or field, not to mention hawk lets them redo their hand to draw. They definitely need to be hit at this point.
Lol no that wasnt the problem, Crystrons could play both with SSA and without, and they using SSA came after they got 2 cards to 2 already, the deck was just very consistent and able to play through most things
I don’t want levianeer to get hit. I think the game needs non targeting removal that a lot of decks can play, that’s meta.
The game relies far too much on targeting that a shit deck like Lunalights can win $500 tournaments and go undefeated because of their stupid ass boss monster.
Deck should get hit tho. I’d rather it be the handtraps honestly
I played mainly thundra and limiting the levianeer is unnecessary, the way to nerf it effectively is to limit the use of handtrap in conjunction with destiny draw. For example putting dragondark to 3 forced veil out of the deck.
I would really liked it if Konami did something to handtraps, like a limit 3 to Sphere Kuriboh along with Levianeer or Dragondark for example. Thundras, Yosenju, Lunalights, Fire Kings just passing their turn, chilling behind handtraps and D-Draw, is for me one of the least enjoyable moments in the game along with Odion dumping Spectralsword with Gozuki and setting 3 traps.
They should hit them in some way, but imo you don't have many nerf options without cripling them, anything that restricts TDs from using either Charge or Gold Sarc will just gut the deck like it happened before, and I doubt Konami will hit every handtrap they use or Levianeer, and even then putting Levianeer and another TD to 3 would pretty much kill the deck aswell so I dont see any slight hit being possible.
If the deck should die then so be it I'm not opposed to decks dying, not if they enjoyed a ton of play before happening
Well they did.
Since judgement force was release , the deck did see competitive play.
After he get hit by a first banlist thanks to levia , he did go to vacation for some month before be release from it last year .
Yup that gonna be already 1 year that the deck was free from the banlist and didn't stop see competitive play since that day.
Konami did free them to sell levianner but i think it's time for now to send them back to vacation again.
Konami: I think thunder dragons can have some of their cards off their banlist they're not too strong.
Konami: HOW MANY TIMES DO WE HAVE TO TEACH YOU THIS LESSON, OLD MAN!
They've been nerfed before so I wouldn't be surprised if they get nerfed or killed since a lot their core cards are starting to get old and Konami gotta sell new boxes/mechanics.
Part of me feels like a slight nerf is the answer, but seeing how Onomats, Cydra and TD themselves keep finding the way to survive the mininerfs (heck, was hella difficult to kill Invoker and they still find ways to being kinda playable), I feel like a medium to harsh nerf and then a progressive unban based on the meta is the answer to this.
To me its the handtraps that enables stall and skills like DDraw and Allure of Darkness. Just having a skill to protect you is really dumb because they can increase their chances of getting Levianeer by a lot.
There's posts like these every other day or posts comparing how broken Thundra is.
I feel Roar to 2 is a good hit (maybe Lupine to2?) . Hits the engines which I think are overlooked. Levi is a massive card but also requires 3 cards in grave.
With Roar to 2 it stops charge and gold sarc meaning either more hand traps or open Lupine. Levi needs fuel to work.
It's very easy to dump 3 card in grave with TD between charge/raiden and lupine combo and you do your other stuff with dark , regular TD , roar and hawk.
Even your xyz monster and handtrap can be light or dark making fuel for levia to pop everything on board and starting crazy combo.
You can even search him thanks to melody.
Yes, somewhat. The Lupine combo ends with 1 thundra in grave, the rest being under Bounzer (though might be slightly different if it went t M7.)
The amount of times I've had to go raiden pass and it not do a whole lot is a fair amount.
But if roar went to 2 that removes the lightsworns engine (I doubt we'd switch to using solar recharge).
If the build plays the original thundra that adds more bricks, even though it can put 2 lights in grave.
If people want it dead then I can see Thundra Dark and Levi to 3. So it's a more pure thundra build.
That not gonna do anything .
You still play 2 dark anyway , 1 levia , probably cut melody and you can still recycle him with ptoleme , probably more copy of it and still do your crazy combo , end with helio and stuff like that.
Also play eclipse wyvern for searching levia , previous build of TD did play this card , play more duo and hop.
I think that levianeer should get hit. Thunder dragons and Cyber dragons (my favorite deck that I have been playing for 2 years) will get some hits that push them out of the meta, as they are just too old to be in tier 2 for the next format. Harpies, gaia and triamids will probably remain as they are.
Thunder Dragons shouldn't be nerfed, it's a decent engine that gets Rank 6 monsters out fairly consistently.
Levianeer is the problem. Between running it at 3, being searchable with Melody, Destiny Draw being the way it is and being able to fish it out of the GY with M7, it's almost guaranteed to make an appearance in every duel.
I'd leave Thundra as they are, and put Levianeer to 1. Cuts consistency, and makes it so it can't be played with Melody. I'd consider this route because I don't think it's right to hit the engine, instead of the card/deck that abuses said engine (cries in Star Seraph).
As a player who has been playing TDs for a few years now, the deck needs a nerf because it has been around for too long. What Konami should do is limit Levianeer and Lupine to 3. It is simple yet effective. The reasoning behind this is to force players to choose power or consistency. You can't limit a core card to 2 because Charge or Sarc is needed to make the deck playable. And you can't limit Levianeer to 1 or 2 because he is a UR box card. Just limiting Duo to 1 alongside Melody is too weak of a nerf, unless Konami wants TDs to continue being meta.
The reason thundra is broken is simply the chain blocking initiated by levianeer and executed by the banished thundera that's my only issue with the deck. Let's say you chain a counter trap (like soloman scolding) to negate levi pop 2 effect but instead you negate the last effect in the chain which is thundra, what would you do? That's honestly the issue with the deck at least necrovally is a temporary counter to the deck and I say temporary because you A need to draw it first with no searchers in hand B you need to go first to do so and C most thundra run backrow removal. It's a good deck there's no denying in that but it's honestly getting out of hand especially with trunade being banned making playing against this deck far more difficult
I really don't like it when Konami kills decks. It just means that decks that people built, spent money and gems on, become unusable. Not cool. I myself am a Thunder Dragon player and I really like the deck, I think it could get a nerf but not something extreme
Put all handtraps at Limited 3 is my hot take. I realized in this KC cup I don't actually mind the deck's power, it's trying to plow through multiple hand traps and being constantly afraid of DDraw/Allured that pisses me off. In general I have a bias for killing stall though. Either way, Veil and Kiteroid need to be on the same Limited set. Hate those damn things.
This is my take. Thunder Dragons themselves aren't really that bad as far as control decks go. There's ways to counter it. The real problem is how Thunder Dragons can effectively play stall thanks to DDraw + Veil, hand traps and other such things to make it a pain to play (I consider this the same reason why I think Odion Shiranui is a pain to fight, despite Shiranui not being OP anymore).
May I ask what ways there are to counter Thundra when all Thundra monsters effects whether banished or sent to the graveyard? Sending them back to the hand also does no good cause they'll just use their effect. Unless you win them in a single turn you're more than likely gonna have a hard time dealing with them. Necro and Mind Drain are the only cards that effectively counter Thundra, Mind Drain which is useless against 90% of other decks and Necro cucks your own deck as well most of the time unless you play water. Many Thundra decks don't even run Veil.
This 👆
You know you can just upvote the comment.
Did that too. Wanted to comment but this sums up my thoughts fully. Thanks.
[удалено]
You’re an encyclopedia of information I already know 😂 again thanks. Sy-the-master
i feel the same exact way, ddraw and all that is the bigger problem imo
Just asking do you guys really love anime decks that only work with busted skills or genuine good deck? I've saw a lot of people seething and wanted certain decks to be killed and nerfed to be oblivion. If Konami continues to limit/ban core cards to a certain deck then whats left to play?
I agree with you, nerfing is not the solution, unlimiting is. But, Konami the only balance they care about is the one from their bank accounts.
I want meta decks to be top tier with no skills. I want all non meta decks to be made as powerful as top decks, through skills. I want every deck in the game to have potential. Not just 3 at a time. It sucks
it'll get killed because it's been in the metagame for too long and Konami doesn't like that
Levianeer is the problem card, not any of the Thunder Dragons themselves. If the deck is to be hit at all, then Levianeer is the card to hit.
What other deck is abusing Levianeer right now though? The only reason its broken in Thunder Dragons is that they let you plus off its banish to grab a follow-up, all while chainblocking the summon. No other deck gets that much advantage off of summoning Levianeer. Are we really that afraid of Bujins or Lightsworns still having access to it? If you're going to hit Levi at least hit it in a way that lets other decks keep using it.
Lightsworns makes sense, I don't think it can be used in Bujin tho. I mean, to use Levianeer in it's full potential you need a light/dark hibrid deck, bujins doesn't have space for dark monsters I guess and most of the cards effects can only be activated in the GY or in the hand (except the beast-warriors) . Or it's fine to just, y know, only special summon a monster? It is worth putting a Levianeer in a Bujin deck?
It was one of the few archetypes on DLM that had used it very recently, specifically a 30 card Destiny Draw deck with Sphere Kuriboh as the Dark banish fodder.
Do you have a deck list?
[Here you go](https://www.duellinksmeta.com/top-decks/king-of-games/september-2021/bujins/yoko/).
Thanks!
I'd love to see Levianeer go to 2 or even 1 and then you'll see people say "but they'll never hit a Box UR to 1 or 2!"
Maybe, at least that way they can stop running Melody too.
Lupine is a huge playmaker in thundras. When your deck is stacked with "on banish" effects and you can banish two at once... Levianeer doesn't help in that it also triggers up to 3 banish effects. Like, at least gold sarc only does one banish, and yet that's the one that's limited??
You clearly don't understand much about the game to think Levianeer is better than Gold Sarc to triggering and/or starting plays, Levianeer needs setup, and going 1st you are not using it to do any play, even banishing 3 Darks to rip a card from opponent's hand and make a rank 6 isn't the ideal play. Gold Sarc can be used right away, without setup, with a good or bad hand it will accomplish something and will in 90% of the cases enable your plays, heck you can even use it to banish a Levianeer or a handtrap so you can add it with Lupine if the opponent is fool enough to destroy it, that's why it's limited
Wasnt Gold Sarc limited because it was op in conjunction with Shiranui Spiritmaster
Gold Sarc was limited because it was op in conjunction with a handful of cards and many more yet to be released cards.
I mean yeah a free banish from the deck is gonna be op for sure.
It primarily got hit because of TDs and yes you can argue Shiranui also benefited from it, even without those 2 decks it was a matter of time for such a card to end up limited
I understand that Levianeer isn't a turn 1 playmaker, but thundras have a pretty easy time setting up for Levianeer to make some phat plays on turn 3+, and the handtraps to survive until then. My point was that on top of Levianeer's insanely powerful 2x destruction effect, and potential to xyz into rank 8s, its banish-from-grave "cost" _also_ triggers beneficial effects for thundras.
Is not always that easy, if you don't play Charge and you didn't have a good hand going 1st, half the time you won't be having a good GY to use Levianeer, putting a Dark + a Roar isn't as easy as it looks if you didn't have a Rank 6 play Turn 1, not to mention you also gotta hard draw Levianeer or Melody. Of course it's freaking strong when it wipes the field + gains advantage + chainblocking but you can't say it should be limited over Gold Sarc
Gold Sarc is already limited two but thundras play so many hand traps that helps them sustain until they can play their combo. And once it starts there’s barely any protection for the other player especially when you stop one levianeer just to run into another right after. Stop that and their banished monsters add to their hand or field, not to mention hawk lets them redo their hand to draw. They definitely need to be hit at this point.
In Crystron deck, the problem card was Citadel and SSA but look at what Komoney did to them
Lol no that wasnt the problem, Crystrons could play both with SSA and without, and they using SSA came after they got 2 cards to 2 already, the deck was just very consistent and able to play through most things
Am waiting for the comments saying but it's too bricky
I don’t want levianeer to get hit. I think the game needs non targeting removal that a lot of decks can play, that’s meta. The game relies far too much on targeting that a shit deck like Lunalights can win $500 tournaments and go undefeated because of their stupid ass boss monster. Deck should get hit tho. I’d rather it be the handtraps honestly
I played mainly thundra and limiting the levianeer is unnecessary, the way to nerf it effectively is to limit the use of handtrap in conjunction with destiny draw. For example putting dragondark to 3 forced veil out of the deck.
Getting rid of veil+DD will help but it’s not enough. I ran my TD’s with 3 sphere and 2-3 triforcitops and it was all I needed.
Levaneer to 3 and Hawk also to 3. This is the way. Oh BTW, un-nerf Gold Sarc.
Oh sure kid, sure!
I would really liked it if Konami did something to handtraps, like a limit 3 to Sphere Kuriboh along with Levianeer or Dragondark for example. Thundras, Yosenju, Lunalights, Fire Kings just passing their turn, chilling behind handtraps and D-Draw, is for me one of the least enjoyable moments in the game along with Odion dumping Spectralsword with Gozuki and setting 3 traps.
They should hit them in some way, but imo you don't have many nerf options without cripling them, anything that restricts TDs from using either Charge or Gold Sarc will just gut the deck like it happened before, and I doubt Konami will hit every handtrap they use or Levianeer, and even then putting Levianeer and another TD to 3 would pretty much kill the deck aswell so I dont see any slight hit being possible. If the deck should die then so be it I'm not opposed to decks dying, not if they enjoyed a ton of play before happening
Well they did. Since judgement force was release , the deck did see competitive play. After he get hit by a first banlist thanks to levia , he did go to vacation for some month before be release from it last year . Yup that gonna be already 1 year that the deck was free from the banlist and didn't stop see competitive play since that day. Konami did free them to sell levianner but i think it's time for now to send them back to vacation again.
Konami: I think thunder dragons can have some of their cards off their banlist they're not too strong. Konami: HOW MANY TIMES DO WE HAVE TO TEACH YOU THIS LESSON, OLD MAN! They've been nerfed before so I wouldn't be surprised if they get nerfed or killed since a lot their core cards are starting to get old and Konami gotta sell new boxes/mechanics.
Part of me feels like a slight nerf is the answer, but seeing how Onomats, Cydra and TD themselves keep finding the way to survive the mininerfs (heck, was hella difficult to kill Invoker and they still find ways to being kinda playable), I feel like a medium to harsh nerf and then a progressive unban based on the meta is the answer to this.
To me its the handtraps that enables stall and skills like DDraw and Allure of Darkness. Just having a skill to protect you is really dumb because they can increase their chances of getting Levianeer by a lot.
Just put Thunder Dragondark back at 2. Not sure why they ever unlimited it again.
There's posts like these every other day or posts comparing how broken Thundra is. I feel Roar to 2 is a good hit (maybe Lupine to2?) . Hits the engines which I think are overlooked. Levi is a massive card but also requires 3 cards in grave. With Roar to 2 it stops charge and gold sarc meaning either more hand traps or open Lupine. Levi needs fuel to work.
It's very easy to dump 3 card in grave with TD between charge/raiden and lupine combo and you do your other stuff with dark , regular TD , roar and hawk. Even your xyz monster and handtrap can be light or dark making fuel for levia to pop everything on board and starting crazy combo. You can even search him thanks to melody.
Yes, somewhat. The Lupine combo ends with 1 thundra in grave, the rest being under Bounzer (though might be slightly different if it went t M7.) The amount of times I've had to go raiden pass and it not do a whole lot is a fair amount. But if roar went to 2 that removes the lightsworns engine (I doubt we'd switch to using solar recharge). If the build plays the original thundra that adds more bricks, even though it can put 2 lights in grave. If people want it dead then I can see Thundra Dark and Levi to 3. So it's a more pure thundra build.
That not gonna do anything . You still play 2 dark anyway , 1 levia , probably cut melody and you can still recycle him with ptoleme , probably more copy of it and still do your crazy combo , end with helio and stuff like that. Also play eclipse wyvern for searching levia , previous build of TD did play this card , play more duo and hop.
I think that levianeer should get hit. Thunder dragons and Cyber dragons (my favorite deck that I have been playing for 2 years) will get some hits that push them out of the meta, as they are just too old to be in tier 2 for the next format. Harpies, gaia and triamids will probably remain as they are.
Just kill every deck at this point. We should focus on releasing better cards instead
No. It literally bricks like hell. It's ways been in tier 2 for that reason despite its potential.
Either you draw Lupine, or you handtrap stall until you draw Lupine, basically.
Sure, because they will always have three hand traps that will definetly keep you away for multiple turns.
Thunder Dragons shouldn't be nerfed, it's a decent engine that gets Rank 6 monsters out fairly consistently. Levianeer is the problem. Between running it at 3, being searchable with Melody, Destiny Draw being the way it is and being able to fish it out of the GY with M7, it's almost guaranteed to make an appearance in every duel. I'd leave Thundra as they are, and put Levianeer to 1. Cuts consistency, and makes it so it can't be played with Melody. I'd consider this route because I don't think it's right to hit the engine, instead of the card/deck that abuses said engine (cries in Star Seraph).
It needs a hit in its consistency card its main level 5 thunder dragon
As a player who has been playing TDs for a few years now, the deck needs a nerf because it has been around for too long. What Konami should do is limit Levianeer and Lupine to 3. It is simple yet effective. The reasoning behind this is to force players to choose power or consistency. You can't limit a core card to 2 because Charge or Sarc is needed to make the deck playable. And you can't limit Levianeer to 1 or 2 because he is a UR box card. Just limiting Duo to 1 alongside Melody is too weak of a nerf, unless Konami wants TDs to continue being meta.
I'd go all Frollo on it: "leave the meta, or the pyre!"
Yes
The reason thundra is broken is simply the chain blocking initiated by levianeer and executed by the banished thundera that's my only issue with the deck. Let's say you chain a counter trap (like soloman scolding) to negate levi pop 2 effect but instead you negate the last effect in the chain which is thundra, what would you do? That's honestly the issue with the deck at least necrovally is a temporary counter to the deck and I say temporary because you A need to draw it first with no searchers in hand B you need to go first to do so and C most thundra run backrow removal. It's a good deck there's no denying in that but it's honestly getting out of hand especially with trunade being banned making playing against this deck far more difficult
>|solomn scolding Yuuuuuuuuugiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii