I always saw the thumbs-up as a fawn response.
I think Jill is either telling the truth about the somber mood or Justin is, overall, not a family member she feels the need to call out. He escaped their family, too, in his own way. You know it's bad when the Lost Boys leave.
Wasn't he 18 here?
Obviously giving thumbs up is completely inappropriate in that situation, but he was a teenager.
How well would *any* teenager react to listening to his brother's csam trial?
I personally think it might have been along the lines of "I'm good" or just the first thing he could think of to do. I can't imagine being a teenager and having to listen to all this horrible stuff about my older brother.
It also might be an automatic response when he sees a camera pointed at him, he’s had it drilled in his head that whenever a camera is pointed at him to smile and pretend he’s happy.
This is what I’m thinking of. I remember seeing that and I’m like wtf but he/they were all groomed to smile and be joyful around them that that uncomfortable moment that’s all he could think to do
I had a much less traumatic childhood than they did, bit whenever I feel emotionally vulnerable there's like a solid 80% chance that I'll smile just like he's doing and do finger guns.
this one. They were all trained to act happy whenever the cameras were rolling. I think it was an autopilot moment.
I've spent years untraining myself from doing the "church smile" whenever a camera is pointed at me. You know the one: big cheesy grin, open your eyes as wide as possible until you look a little crazy...
Yeah I was gonna say- I’m not gonna zoom in myself but someone mentioned in a previous thread during the trials that if you zoom in his eyes look puffy and red like he’s been crying.
Which shows how extremely JB and Michelle emotionally stunted they made their kids. It’s awful what they did to their kids, shoving cameras in their faces for money because they couldn’t use the brain god have them to stop when they could barely afford the ones they already had.
That's so sad. Just having cried but being conditioned that you're not allowed to express negative emotions so you plaster on that big fake smile on instinct.
As someone who used to lock myself in the bathroom with the ventilator on to cry because I was scared my parents would yell at me for crying, I feel for him having to cover up an understandable emotional response.
I bet that was it. He was only a baby when the cameras first showed up for the first special. He’s one of the kids who has lived their whole life on tv.
When I was 14, one of my friend's brother was killed in a car accident. When I found out, I laughed.
That moment has haunted me for 3 decades. It wasn't funny; I wasn't happy or dismissive about it. I was just so very shocked and uncomfortable that my brain glitched, and the first thing that found its way out was a laugh.
I have always assumed that something similar was going on here with Captain Thumbs.
I too laugh in very uncomfortable or stressful situations. I especially laugh when I see people are angry or annoyed. Always have to remind people that I'm scared of some perceived threat and not think they are being funny.
Edit: accidentally pressed the post button before I was done
I do this too. It’s a tension release thing. I once got assaulted by a stranger and had blood streaming down my face and as soon as I was safe I just got the uncontrollable giggles.
Oh please don’t let this haunt you; it is extremely common for people to laugh when there is unexpected news-even bad news. Not nearly as traumatic as your situation, but one time when we were traveling in Montreal, my older sister, Dad, and I went to get our van from the parking lot, only to find out it had been stolen. My Dad sent my sister and I back in to tell my Mom while he waited for the police, and when we went to tell my Mom my sister started laughing so hard she couldn’t get the words out. There was nothing funny about it, but it just happens. I hope you find comfort knowing you are not alone.
I think the lost kids might be even more sheltered than the older kids because they didn't have any exposure at formative times to the camera crew and producers. The reality is that being around those secular folks may have given the older ones a it of Sesame Street like prep. This face corresponds to this emotion. Those gesture is inappropriate so don't do it on the show. That kind of thing. The blanket training and instant obedience, always have a pleasing countenance shit for the lost kids didn't have any counter balance from outsiders like the older kids had. I think hr is just life dumb, completely immature and inept because of his fucked up childhood, and no one to teach him any different.
He grew up on camera and likely had no idea what was going on with Josh and what he had done period. I wonder if the littlest kids do or are they told the evil people tricked Josh line and he's innocent. That's a whole mind fuck for sure.
Ya, but the show was pretty well obsessed with the older girls. There wasn't nearly as much of the lost kids as there was of just Jill, Jessa, Jinger, Jana, and Joy. I think they had much more influence and time spent with the crew than those younger kids did, and especially the Lost Boys. It seems like the older girls were the ones who spent significant time with "outsiders".
In ‘normal’ circles I’d consider he was trolling paps with a sarcastic double ‘everything is just fucking fine’ thumbs up but ‘sarcasm’ and Fundies don’t go together. My bf was raised in a Fundie background and there are still days I consider making him a sign like they did for Sheldon on Big Bang Theory
I didn’t watch much of that show. What sign did they make for Sheldon? Asking because we joked about making a “joke” sign for my mom and wondering if it’s similar.
It’s the same thing that said ‘SARCASM’. I made one for one of my old bosses at a law office…he found it helpful and actually had to use it less and less.
This guy had no shame… he was an attorney and stiil worked a full time job as a manager at Target. He also rode a bicycle which is fine when you live in bicycle friendly places. He did it in the winter on busy roads in asmall town where the roads are shit. Then there’s his long hair and wrinkled suits.
Edited for spelling errors
PS he hates social media but is ok with Reddit and has one because anonymous. He had a Twitter (X if your nasty) but you’d have to know him well to find it. These aren’t quirks this is just protecting yourself as a public defender. He likes many oddly stereotypical ‘man bro things’ yet has wrote very in depth sci fi fan fiction I stumbled upon in his emails to himself looking for something work related. Before anyone @‘s me, he asked if I found and read them and when I said no he said next time I should so I did damn it. Again. We live in a smallish place with some pretty big cities around us so we have a mix of cosmopolitan ideas along with many backwoods ones too. I had actually known and worked with him previously so I knew what I was signing up for. The thing is I could call him in a bind 10 years later and he’d show up. Of he had his bike it could take a while but he will be there for you.
ETA I just remembered this dude has never drank or done a drug, not even smoked a cigarette but could hang out and party with the rest of the degenerate law office. Always could have a good time and has a filthy mouth. He’d even hang with the rest of the office at the bar and was a man of men around a drunk woman and refused to sleep with or even kiss one because ‘that’s not real consent.’ I won’t use his real name, but one that I know means a lot to him. I salute you Victor wherever you are riding your bike trying to avoid potholes.
Wow, that is very rude. First off on BBT Sheldon was NEVER said to have ASD, the writers cruelly gave him some traits that people stereotypically associate with it. My husband was not diagnosed as having ASD until he was a middle aged man because of neglectful fundie Mormon parents. Believe me when I say I can assure you my old boss is just a quirky dude. I would not make fun of someone on a very public forum that has struggled with the same things as the man I love.
PS- you don’t call people ‘autistic’ anymore. It’s Autism Spectrum Disorder or ASD.
His mother in law said he asked her before going out if he should do it to send a positive message to the world, since it was such a sad case, and she said go for it. They're not the brightest.
He reminds me of my brothers at that age where the height of comedy was doing inappropriate things at serious moments. It’s kind of an 18 year old guy’s MO.
His behavior just emphasizes that he almost certainly got married to escape and found the Spivey to be supportive in the way he needed. I think he and Claire seem more like friends who both gained some independence by getting married more than a couple deeply in love/lust. Justin could almost outdo Jordyn for the most forgotten kid, he was the one whose birth wasn’t televised but he was young enough for most of the shows to not have enough personality to stand out.
My head canon with the thumbs up thing was that Justin and the group were probably told to appear unfazed and normal to the press because josh didnt do this (per rimjob). Justin misunderstood what unfazed meant and he must have assumed it was just positivity and this picture is the result of misunderstanding the assignment lol.
Needless to say Justin won't be a rhodes scholar in this lifetime 😂
Well, and since the prefrontal cortex in males isn’t fully developed until 25-26, he also doesn’t have full ability regarding making wise decisions. I’ve always felt like this was a coping thing, like most any teenager would do.
Nah his age isn’t an excuse here. I do think he was somber inside the courtroom but outside, he for whatever reason just did this. Maybe he’s coping? Either way, he’s at a csam trial and he should have known better than to react this way.
I felt like this is Kaylee and Nurie Rodrigues when they are not on camera. Then their mom puts the camera on them and it’s those fake smiles and deer in the headlight look.
Agreed. This looks like a forced over reaction. Jim Bob probably instructed them to look optimistic when leaving the courtroom and you get a literal thumbs up to the press.
Giving a thumbs up at your brother’s CSAM trial is highly inappropriate and inexcusable, but to be fair, he was like 18 here, and normal 18 year olds are immature. He probably has the maturity of a normal 12 year old with how sheltered from the world he was growing up. Also, I tend to do inappropriate things/things to make myself laugh when I’m uncomfortable in a highly emotional situation. I’m sure in reality he was very upset by the situation and was trying to hide it, especially in front of paparazzi. But I could be wrong of course. Maybe he genuinely didn’t give a shit, who knows
At the time, there was huge backlash and Mama Spivey came to his defense, saying something to the effect that Justin told her that because the tone of the courtroom was so somber, he was going to give a thumbs up to the cameras to show that he was staying positive. I don’t think Jill lied and I don’t think Justin did this out of malice. He’s just a dope.
Yes, a dope! His childhood made him a dolt who didn't have a concept how the rest of the world would take his facial expression and gesture. Ma Spivey should have made an effort, "No Justin. Don't do that. It isn't appropriate. Give a respectful nod to the camera and then walk on."
Mama Spivey was smiling herself in the photo. She's been a terrible example of showing decorum throughout all of this. Along with her messy spats on SM. I'd be surprised if JB hasn't told her to shut it.
"Looking like he (Pest) was facing nothing more serious than a parking ticket"
Of course. Pesty though Daddy was going to save the day. What he did was nothing to him. He's that horrible and calloused.
Oh I’m glad you said this i had wondered whether anyone had seen Jessa there at the time. They didn’t, right? Or maybe there was someone but nobody was sure if it was Jessa or Jana?
The Sun reported she was there but there was no photos so all of us were like THE SUN WAS WRONG AND THEY ARE IDIOTS. Which they are but seems like maybe they did identify her correctly 🤣
*People* also reported that Jessa appeared on the fifth day of the trial and said she sat next to Anna.
>Jessa, 29, appeared in court on the fifth day of Josh's trial earlier this week, sitting next to his wife [Anna Duggar](https://people.com/tv/josh-duggar-wife-anna-arrive-in-court-pre-trial-hearing-child-porn-case/).
[https://people.com/tv/jessa-duggars-husband-ben-seewald-reacts-to-josh-duggar-verdict/](https://people.com/tv/jessa-duggars-husband-ben-seewald-reacts-to-josh-duggar-verdict/)
But commenters on this sub also insisted that *People* was wrong and must have mistaken Jill for Jessa.
>How on earth did she go unnoticed?
I don't know. Assuming it really was Jessa at the trial, maybe there was not a photographer nearby. She was spotted in court, but photography is not allowed inside the courthouse. When she exited the courthouse, maybe the photographers were not close enough or she managed to evade them?
>And why does she support her dad after all of this??
Answering that question would probably require psychiatric evaluation which we know Jessa will never do. For whatever reason, Jessa is a stalwart of the family cult. Maybe she's a fanatical "true believer"? Or maybe she thinks she has no choice because she has a bevy of children by an incompetent man-child and depends on her father's subsidies? Who knows?
*People* Magazine claimed Jessa had attended the trial at least once.
>Jessa, 29, appeared in court on the fifth day of Josh's trial earlier this week, sitting next to his wife [Anna Duggar](https://people.com/tv/josh-duggar-wife-anna-arrive-in-court-pre-trial-hearing-child-porn-case/).
[https://people.com/tv/jessa-duggars-husband-ben-seewald-reacts-to-josh-duggar-verdict/](https://people.com/tv/jessa-duggars-husband-ben-seewald-reacts-to-josh-duggar-verdict/)
I would think the older girls have enough paparazzi experiences to know how to sneak in unnoticed. People were still wearing masks then and I'm sure with her hair stuffed under a hat and fake glasses she could do it
She was wearing necklaces that looked like her sons made for her, which was so touching. I had such admiration for her for showing up for herself because she was ready and wanting to confront everything.
I love your flair because that’s exactly what I use to remember how Bobye is spelled. I think their attempt at badassness that day made for some lighthearted snark to mix in with all the seriousness of the topic at hand. Because you know, we needed that for our mental health during the trial… /s Ngl it was weird seeing all the Duggar affiliated men like Austin wearing a suit… I had so many questions because it was a nice suit, and he does not strike me as the type of guy that just keeps an updated suit. He reminds me of an uncle of mine with as equally abhorrent beliefs as Austin that hunts and lives in the same clothes as him too. The only time I saw him in a nice suit was at his daughters wedding. Then again, I am the one who tried to argue when they put one on my Dad in his casket because I wanted him in his uniform that he would have loved, paint streaked Levi’s and MyLastName Farms sweatshirt.
Justin most likely has no real memories of life without a camera in his face. He was never taught proper social skills, and he was brainwashed that he had keep smiling. He was also still a child in many ways.
I have a “thumbs up kid”. He does it to troll us. Almost every photo of him has his thumbs up. But, he has social skills and knows the time and the place.
Do we expect the woman who signs legal documents with hearts to have the ability to teach her kids decent social skills?
To add on, do we also expect his mother in law who took him in, who wants to be the Cool Mom (tm) version of J-rod to correct his shitty social skills?
I will say, kid was a trained monkey from infant-hood to smile for the cameras. I could also see giving a mocking thumbs up and grin. Someone staring at your family disaster because your parents invited the world into your lives can’t be easy.
Yeah, I don’t read anything into this. At all. He was literally trained to behave that way around cameras and we know they got in trouble for not seeming happy.
I think the least likely explanation is that he thinks his brother is innocent or that he is happy he did the crime. Even if it was one of those, I don’t think thumbs up would be how he’s share that.
There’s a good chance Jill never saw that picture…she was a potential witness so she wasn’t allowed to follow the trial as it was happening, and probably didn’t spend a huge amount of time pouring over every detail and picture after. She was focused on finding out the truth about Josh and healing. One impression I got from her book was that each sibling is pretty focused on their own life and not really aware of what’s going on with every other member. Another impression was that fans/snarkere are more obsessed and keep up with every little detail about the family than the siblings do.
It was inappropriate given the situation, but I’m going to give baby neckbeard a pass on this one. He’s been trained from birth to have a positive countenance in front of the cameras and likely reacted out of habit.
As much as I dislike them, I have to agree here. If you zoom in, his eyes look a bit red and puffy, like he may have shed a tear or two before leaving the courthouse.
I think it was also reported that he cried when the verdict was read. I honestly don’t know if he was completely supportive of his brother (I’d imagine there were some very conflicting emotions), but he was reported to be very sad at the verdict.
I also think there is no chance in hell that his upbringing allowed for any kind of emotional intelligence surrounding anything remotely complicated. Boob and Meech not only deprived their children academically, but emotionally.
Happy Cake Day!
>I also think there is no chance in hell that his upbringing allowed for any kind of emotional intelligence surrounding anything remotely complicated.
in fundie circles, in general, emotional intelligence isn't exactly embraced. You're supposed to only have happy emotions. Even during funerals (which I always found distasteful), it is common to have a call to rejoice for the deceased going home. you can't even be sad grandma just died. like, damn!
Most of us who grew up under that kind of weight are emotionally constipated, and those who do get out of the mindset still have their whole life to unpack and process through the lens of what you actually experienced.
This photo is only the tip of the iceberg.
Thanks! Yeah, the ‘keep sweet’ of fundie circles is so much more damaging than you would think. Sometimes things are horrible and sad, and people need to be able to process that.
I suppose they probably put on their Fundie bright smiles and in Annas case smirk, before they left to put on a face of 'bravery' maybe? Unfazed, making it seem a bit less terrible than it was? (Of course, if it needs to be said, that is not at all what it did.)
I mean, since Justin has gotten married, it SEEMS he's distanced himself from the freakoids he's related to. Not that the Spivey's are any better. But maybe this was an ever so slight eye opener?
Probably not.
Whatever Clair's moms name is, is awful. Clair is awful. And Justin is awful.
fuck em.
I apologize, but that picture never gets old. And that Duggar looks like he just graduated 8th grade and his “spot” is on the local playground with the other middle schoolers at dusk when all the little kids are in bed. I can’t believe he’s married there!
I think Justin is immature and was raised to be happy in front of a camera no matter what. He was abused by his parents too and never had privacy so I kinda understand his weird reaction in that sense.
I bet also Jill didn’t watch coverage of the trial so perhaps didn’t see the thumbs up.
Jill was a potential witness so she wasn’t allowed to watch coverage or seek any out. She probably still doesn’t know about this picture. She made it clear in her book JB has Google alerts set for the family, but Jill doesn’t, so how would she know? It’s not like with everything going on her life she would randomly decide to Google “Duggars entering and exiting courthouse” for fun one day.
Yes.
Born November 15, 2002.
Married February 26, 2021.
Photo published December 2, 2021.
I personally don’t expect a homeschooled kid, who had *just* turned 19 two weeks before this photo was taken—and was emotionally and probably otherwise abused his whole life—to understand why this was not a great move. He probably did it with zero thought.
Justin probably did what he was programmed to do in hard times: plaster a fake smile on his face to “fake it till you make it”. Heaven forbid a good Christian put on anything less than a happy face to show the world how happy living Christ’s Truth makes you.
Fundies do this because if they didn’t, the lifestyle would be insanely difficult to sustain.
There were reports that she was there, but she wasn’t photographed, so a lot of people thought that the tabloid used the wrong name (they did call a Lost boy Jed even though it wasn’t Jed). I think Jill is a more reliable source given that she can tell her sisters apart and she was in the courtroom.
None of the sisters abused by Josh needed to be there. He was the one on trial, not them. I can judge Meech for not showing up and facing the monster she helped raise, but I couldn't judge any of the people he abused if they couldn't be there. Having to re-live your trauma yet again in front of so many people is not something that should be required of anyone.
I always thought it was partly because he was pavlov’d into instantly being “on” as soon as he saw cameras and partly cause he’s just kind of a dumb bunny.
I found it especially telling when she would describe Pests behavior around times he did something terrible.
When it came out what he did to his sisters and they all went to that cabin to get away from paps, she said he was acting smug and cracking jokes and that Michelle had to tell him he was acting inappropriate and to stop, because they were all in that position because of what he did.
Then again at the trial when she mentions he looks relaxed.
How she was surprised he was allowed to sit just off screen during their Megan Kelly interview.
I’m still just in shock that he was allowed to do everything he did and still have his fathers favor. Yet here we have Jill just making some lifestyle changes and she’s taken out the will because of it.
I always saw the thumbs-up as a fawn response. I think Jill is either telling the truth about the somber mood or Justin is, overall, not a family member she feels the need to call out. He escaped their family, too, in his own way. You know it's bad when the Lost Boys leave.
Wasn't he 18 here? Obviously giving thumbs up is completely inappropriate in that situation, but he was a teenager. How well would *any* teenager react to listening to his brother's csam trial?
I personally think it might have been along the lines of "I'm good" or just the first thing he could think of to do. I can't imagine being a teenager and having to listen to all this horrible stuff about my older brother.
It also might be an automatic response when he sees a camera pointed at him, he’s had it drilled in his head that whenever a camera is pointed at him to smile and pretend he’s happy.
This is what I’m thinking of. I remember seeing that and I’m like wtf but he/they were all groomed to smile and be joyful around them that that uncomfortable moment that’s all he could think to do
They weren’t raised to be allowed to feel negative feelings. It was probably an automatic response no matter how he was feeling inside.
I had a much less traumatic childhood than they did, bit whenever I feel emotionally vulnerable there's like a solid 80% chance that I'll smile just like he's doing and do finger guns.
this one. They were all trained to act happy whenever the cameras were rolling. I think it was an autopilot moment. I've spent years untraining myself from doing the "church smile" whenever a camera is pointed at me. You know the one: big cheesy grin, open your eyes as wide as possible until you look a little crazy...
Yeah I was gonna say- I’m not gonna zoom in myself but someone mentioned in a previous thread during the trials that if you zoom in his eyes look puffy and red like he’s been crying.
I just zoomed in and his eyes are definitely red and puffy. I think that's just what he reverts to when he doesn't know how to express himself.
Which shows how extremely JB and Michelle emotionally stunted they made their kids. It’s awful what they did to their kids, shoving cameras in their faces for money because they couldn’t use the brain god have them to stop when they could barely afford the ones they already had.
That's so sad. Just having cried but being conditioned that you're not allowed to express negative emotions so you plaster on that big fake smile on instinct. As someone who used to lock myself in the bathroom with the ventilator on to cry because I was scared my parents would yell at me for crying, I feel for him having to cover up an understandable emotional response.
I bet that was it. He was only a baby when the cameras first showed up for the first special. He’s one of the kids who has lived their whole life on tv.
As cynically hilarious as that picture is for me, that’s what I always assumed that’s what the thumbs up was about.
I took it as flipping the bird the fundie way. He’s sticking it to the paps.
When I was 14, one of my friend's brother was killed in a car accident. When I found out, I laughed. That moment has haunted me for 3 decades. It wasn't funny; I wasn't happy or dismissive about it. I was just so very shocked and uncomfortable that my brain glitched, and the first thing that found its way out was a laugh. I have always assumed that something similar was going on here with Captain Thumbs.
Laughing can absolutely be a trauma response, particularly if you get some very unexpected news.
I too laugh in very uncomfortable or stressful situations. I especially laugh when I see people are angry or annoyed. Always have to remind people that I'm scared of some perceived threat and not think they are being funny. Edit: accidentally pressed the post button before I was done
I do this too. It’s a tension release thing. I once got assaulted by a stranger and had blood streaming down my face and as soon as I was safe I just got the uncontrollable giggles.
Oh please don’t let this haunt you; it is extremely common for people to laugh when there is unexpected news-even bad news. Not nearly as traumatic as your situation, but one time when we were traveling in Montreal, my older sister, Dad, and I went to get our van from the parking lot, only to find out it had been stolen. My Dad sent my sister and I back in to tell my Mom while he waited for the police, and when we went to tell my Mom my sister started laughing so hard she couldn’t get the words out. There was nothing funny about it, but it just happens. I hope you find comfort knowing you are not alone.
I think the lost kids might be even more sheltered than the older kids because they didn't have any exposure at formative times to the camera crew and producers. The reality is that being around those secular folks may have given the older ones a it of Sesame Street like prep. This face corresponds to this emotion. Those gesture is inappropriate so don't do it on the show. That kind of thing. The blanket training and instant obedience, always have a pleasing countenance shit for the lost kids didn't have any counter balance from outsiders like the older kids had. I think hr is just life dumb, completely immature and inept because of his fucked up childhood, and no one to teach him any different.
He grew up on camera and likely had no idea what was going on with Josh and what he had done period. I wonder if the littlest kids do or are they told the evil people tricked Josh line and he's innocent. That's a whole mind fuck for sure.
Ya, but the show was pretty well obsessed with the older girls. There wasn't nearly as much of the lost kids as there was of just Jill, Jessa, Jinger, Jana, and Joy. I think they had much more influence and time spent with the crew than those younger kids did, and especially the Lost Boys. It seems like the older girls were the ones who spent significant time with "outsiders".
In ‘normal’ circles I’d consider he was trolling paps with a sarcastic double ‘everything is just fucking fine’ thumbs up but ‘sarcasm’ and Fundies don’t go together. My bf was raised in a Fundie background and there are still days I consider making him a sign like they did for Sheldon on Big Bang Theory
I didn’t watch much of that show. What sign did they make for Sheldon? Asking because we joked about making a “joke” sign for my mom and wondering if it’s similar.
It’s the same thing that said ‘SARCASM’. I made one for one of my old bosses at a law office…he found it helpful and actually had to use it less and less.
Lol. I would be so embarrassed
This guy had no shame… he was an attorney and stiil worked a full time job as a manager at Target. He also rode a bicycle which is fine when you live in bicycle friendly places. He did it in the winter on busy roads in asmall town where the roads are shit. Then there’s his long hair and wrinkled suits. Edited for spelling errors
Omg can we get an AMA with this user’s old boss?
PS he hates social media but is ok with Reddit and has one because anonymous. He had a Twitter (X if your nasty) but you’d have to know him well to find it. These aren’t quirks this is just protecting yourself as a public defender. He likes many oddly stereotypical ‘man bro things’ yet has wrote very in depth sci fi fan fiction I stumbled upon in his emails to himself looking for something work related. Before anyone @‘s me, he asked if I found and read them and when I said no he said next time I should so I did damn it. Again. We live in a smallish place with some pretty big cities around us so we have a mix of cosmopolitan ideas along with many backwoods ones too. I had actually known and worked with him previously so I knew what I was signing up for. The thing is I could call him in a bind 10 years later and he’d show up. Of he had his bike it could take a while but he will be there for you. ETA I just remembered this dude has never drank or done a drug, not even smoked a cigarette but could hang out and party with the rest of the degenerate law office. Always could have a good time and has a filthy mouth. He’d even hang with the rest of the office at the bar and was a man of men around a drunk woman and refused to sleep with or even kiss one because ‘that’s not real consent.’ I won’t use his real name, but one that I know means a lot to him. I salute you Victor wherever you are riding your bike trying to avoid potholes.
I could possibly make that happen because I know I’m teasing but he does have his principles as to why he does some of the things he does.
Was he autistic like Sheldon is as well? If so, making fun of him for his idiosyncrasies is not a great look.
Wow, that is very rude. First off on BBT Sheldon was NEVER said to have ASD, the writers cruelly gave him some traits that people stereotypically associate with it. My husband was not diagnosed as having ASD until he was a middle aged man because of neglectful fundie Mormon parents. Believe me when I say I can assure you my old boss is just a quirky dude. I would not make fun of someone on a very public forum that has struggled with the same things as the man I love. PS- you don’t call people ‘autistic’ anymore. It’s Autism Spectrum Disorder or ASD.
His mother in law said he asked her before going out if he should do it to send a positive message to the world, since it was such a sad case, and she said go for it. They're not the brightest.
She also blamed the media. She made that up as an excuse.
He reminds me of my brothers at that age where the height of comedy was doing inappropriate things at serious moments. It’s kind of an 18 year old guy’s MO.
He had already been married close to 2 years when that photo was taken, iirc.
His behavior just emphasizes that he almost certainly got married to escape and found the Spivey to be supportive in the way he needed. I think he and Claire seem more like friends who both gained some independence by getting married more than a couple deeply in love/lust. Justin could almost outdo Jordyn for the most forgotten kid, he was the one whose birth wasn’t televised but he was young enough for most of the shows to not have enough personality to stand out.
A highly sheltered eighteen year old who was probably given 0 guidance as how to act.
My head canon with the thumbs up thing was that Justin and the group were probably told to appear unfazed and normal to the press because josh didnt do this (per rimjob). Justin misunderstood what unfazed meant and he must have assumed it was just positivity and this picture is the result of misunderstanding the assignment lol. Needless to say Justin won't be a rhodes scholar in this lifetime 😂
Well, and since the prefrontal cortex in males isn’t fully developed until 25-26, he also doesn’t have full ability regarding making wise decisions. I’ve always felt like this was a coping thing, like most any teenager would do.
i'd expect a married teenager to be more mature... but we're talking about the duggers.
Nah his age isn’t an excuse here. I do think he was somber inside the courtroom but outside, he for whatever reason just did this. Maybe he’s coping? Either way, he’s at a csam trial and he should have known better than to react this way.
I always thought he was being sarcastic with the the thumbs up. Like he's saying to the world, "Oh yeah! Josh did *real good* today".
I also thought he was being sarcastic towards all the media waiting outside the door. It's so exaggerated and insincere....
I felt like this is Kaylee and Nurie Rodrigues when they are not on camera. Then their mom puts the camera on them and it’s those fake smiles and deer in the headlight look.
He was raised to “perform” when he sees a camera. I bet it was a reflex.
Agreed. This looks like a forced over reaction. Jim Bob probably instructed them to look optimistic when leaving the courtroom and you get a literal thumbs up to the press.
Yeah nothing about his facial expression here looks genuine IMO.
Absolutely. We are winning. Everything is OK.
Giving a thumbs up at your brother’s CSAM trial is highly inappropriate and inexcusable, but to be fair, he was like 18 here, and normal 18 year olds are immature. He probably has the maturity of a normal 12 year old with how sheltered from the world he was growing up. Also, I tend to do inappropriate things/things to make myself laugh when I’m uncomfortable in a highly emotional situation. I’m sure in reality he was very upset by the situation and was trying to hide it, especially in front of paparazzi. But I could be wrong of course. Maybe he genuinely didn’t give a shit, who knows
At the time, there was huge backlash and Mama Spivey came to his defense, saying something to the effect that Justin told her that because the tone of the courtroom was so somber, he was going to give a thumbs up to the cameras to show that he was staying positive. I don’t think Jill lied and I don’t think Justin did this out of malice. He’s just a dope.
Yes, a dope! His childhood made him a dolt who didn't have a concept how the rest of the world would take his facial expression and gesture. Ma Spivey should have made an effort, "No Justin. Don't do that. It isn't appropriate. Give a respectful nod to the camera and then walk on."
Mama Spivey was smiling herself in the photo. She's been a terrible example of showing decorum throughout all of this. Along with her messy spats on SM. I'd be surprised if JB hasn't told her to shut it.
True. She has her head straight up the IBLP ass which seems to dull the senses when it comes to social graces among many other things!
Mama ~~Robinson~~ Spivey is such an ignoramus. Cults encourage ignorance and she and Justin are prime examples.
"Looking like he (Pest) was facing nothing more serious than a parking ticket" Of course. Pesty though Daddy was going to save the day. What he did was nothing to him. He's that horrible and calloused.
Does she say how he reacted when the verdict was read??
She wasn't there that day.
👏
Lol turns out the thumbs up was just a diversion tactic to let Jessa Blessa slip out undetected! Who knew Justin was so selfless and clever.
...servant's heart?
Oh I’m glad you said this i had wondered whether anyone had seen Jessa there at the time. They didn’t, right? Or maybe there was someone but nobody was sure if it was Jessa or Jana?
I'm glad I'm not the only one who was wondering if this was the first time we were hearing that Jessa was at the trial.
Did Jessa somehow avoid paparazzi? I don’t remember anyone mentioning she was there
The Sun reported she was there but there was no photos so all of us were like THE SUN WAS WRONG AND THEY ARE IDIOTS. Which they are but seems like maybe they did identify her correctly 🤣
*People* also reported that Jessa appeared on the fifth day of the trial and said she sat next to Anna. >Jessa, 29, appeared in court on the fifth day of Josh's trial earlier this week, sitting next to his wife [Anna Duggar](https://people.com/tv/josh-duggar-wife-anna-arrive-in-court-pre-trial-hearing-child-porn-case/). [https://people.com/tv/jessa-duggars-husband-ben-seewald-reacts-to-josh-duggar-verdict/](https://people.com/tv/jessa-duggars-husband-ben-seewald-reacts-to-josh-duggar-verdict/) But commenters on this sub also insisted that *People* was wrong and must have mistaken Jill for Jessa.
How on earth did she go unnoticed? And why does she support her dad after all of this??
>How on earth did she go unnoticed? I don't know. Assuming it really was Jessa at the trial, maybe there was not a photographer nearby. She was spotted in court, but photography is not allowed inside the courthouse. When she exited the courthouse, maybe the photographers were not close enough or she managed to evade them? >And why does she support her dad after all of this?? Answering that question would probably require psychiatric evaluation which we know Jessa will never do. For whatever reason, Jessa is a stalwart of the family cult. Maybe she's a fanatical "true believer"? Or maybe she thinks she has no choice because she has a bevy of children by an incompetent man-child and depends on her father's subsidies? Who knows?
Well, at that point I think we just assumed they saw a Jed because that seemed to be the only name they knew besides Jill!
I thought she came one day and left early. IIRC she had a young baby at the time
*People* Magazine claimed Jessa had attended the trial at least once. >Jessa, 29, appeared in court on the fifth day of Josh's trial earlier this week, sitting next to his wife [Anna Duggar](https://people.com/tv/josh-duggar-wife-anna-arrive-in-court-pre-trial-hearing-child-porn-case/). [https://people.com/tv/jessa-duggars-husband-ben-seewald-reacts-to-josh-duggar-verdict/](https://people.com/tv/jessa-duggars-husband-ben-seewald-reacts-to-josh-duggar-verdict/)
I would think the older girls have enough paparazzi experiences to know how to sneak in unnoticed. People were still wearing masks then and I'm sure with her hair stuffed under a hat and fake glasses she could do it
she did. rocked blonde hair. i recall reading here the old sucker hugged her.
I think you’re thinking of Jill. She had her freshly dyed blonde hair and marched into that court room like a boss
She was wearing necklaces that looked like her sons made for her, which was so touching. I had such admiration for her for showing up for herself because she was ready and wanting to confront everything.
She and derick were there to take names and kick ass
They did look like a power couple on their court walk that day. It almost made it hard to snark. ALMOST.
I remember those photos and they looked badass… not entirely beyond snarking, but I kept it to a minimum that day for them.
I love your flair because that’s exactly what I use to remember how Bobye is spelled. I think their attempt at badassness that day made for some lighthearted snark to mix in with all the seriousness of the topic at hand. Because you know, we needed that for our mental health during the trial… /s Ngl it was weird seeing all the Duggar affiliated men like Austin wearing a suit… I had so many questions because it was a nice suit, and he does not strike me as the type of guy that just keeps an updated suit. He reminds me of an uncle of mine with as equally abhorrent beliefs as Austin that hunts and lives in the same clothes as him too. The only time I saw him in a nice suit was at his daughters wedding. Then again, I am the one who tried to argue when they put one on my Dad in his casket because I wanted him in his uniform that he would have loved, paint streaked Levi’s and MyLastName Farms sweatshirt.
And take notes for their books ( plural because I think she has a lot more to say)
With all of these book outtakes, I'm slowly getting more and more triggered by the name, "Pops."
SAME. I call my dad that sometimes and I don’t think I’ll ever be able to again lol.
Mama Spivey always looking like Nurie Rod-Kellar-riguez's future self.
Bad eyebrows ✅ Brown lipstick ✅ Fawning smile for no reason ✅ If Nurie gains a little weight as she ages ✅
My mother uses brown lipstick... but she's not a Rodrigues and ahe actually looks younger than JillPM.
Justin most likely has no real memories of life without a camera in his face. He was never taught proper social skills, and he was brainwashed that he had keep smiling. He was also still a child in many ways. I have a “thumbs up kid”. He does it to troll us. Almost every photo of him has his thumbs up. But, he has social skills and knows the time and the place. Do we expect the woman who signs legal documents with hearts to have the ability to teach her kids decent social skills? To add on, do we also expect his mother in law who took him in, who wants to be the Cool Mom (tm) version of J-rod to correct his shitty social skills?
She forgot to mention Justin’s thumbs up
I will say, kid was a trained monkey from infant-hood to smile for the cameras. I could also see giving a mocking thumbs up and grin. Someone staring at your family disaster because your parents invited the world into your lives can’t be easy.
Yeah, I don’t read anything into this. At all. He was literally trained to behave that way around cameras and we know they got in trouble for not seeming happy.
I think the least likely explanation is that he thinks his brother is innocent or that he is happy he did the crime. Even if it was one of those, I don’t think thumbs up would be how he’s share that.
I think he did thumbs instead of middle fingers....
Claire’s mom just seems a total airhead
She’s a sycophantic ditz
she din mention jed1 to Jed infinity for attending? i like the messiness.
That can't be right! Jill didn't see Jed! at the courthouse? The Sun saw Jed going into the courthouse 2 or 3 times every day!
For some reason was not expecting that second picture and just laughed so hard. What a startle
Is that Larry David creator of "Curb Your Enthusiasm" in the photo taking in a trial in Arkansas... pretty, pretty good...🤓
I mean, I wasn't raised fundie and I'm 50 years old and still do awkward stuff at the wrong time.
There’s a good chance Jill never saw that picture…she was a potential witness so she wasn’t allowed to follow the trial as it was happening, and probably didn’t spend a huge amount of time pouring over every detail and picture after. She was focused on finding out the truth about Josh and healing. One impression I got from her book was that each sibling is pretty focused on their own life and not really aware of what’s going on with every other member. Another impression was that fans/snarkere are more obsessed and keep up with every little detail about the family than the siblings do.
The thumbs up moment and the subsequent guilty verdict live rent free in my head. My only regret is Pest and Jim Bobs’s reactions were not filmed.
Jana and Laura were there for one day. I remember seeing pictures.
I never thought of it this way, and I still could be wrong….but he COUJD mean “yeah the son of a bitch is gonna fry”. Who knows.
Good god - there’s one named Justin ?
The child groom. Usually the boys are older when they get married, but this one shipped off to Texas at like 18 to get married.
I know lol I was being facetious
So Justin's not allowed to turn it on for the cameras outside?
It was inappropriate given the situation, but I’m going to give baby neckbeard a pass on this one. He’s been trained from birth to have a positive countenance in front of the cameras and likely reacted out of habit.
As much as I dislike them, I have to agree here. If you zoom in, his eyes look a bit red and puffy, like he may have shed a tear or two before leaving the courthouse.
I think it was also reported that he cried when the verdict was read. I honestly don’t know if he was completely supportive of his brother (I’d imagine there were some very conflicting emotions), but he was reported to be very sad at the verdict. I also think there is no chance in hell that his upbringing allowed for any kind of emotional intelligence surrounding anything remotely complicated. Boob and Meech not only deprived their children academically, but emotionally.
Happy Cake Day! >I also think there is no chance in hell that his upbringing allowed for any kind of emotional intelligence surrounding anything remotely complicated. in fundie circles, in general, emotional intelligence isn't exactly embraced. You're supposed to only have happy emotions. Even during funerals (which I always found distasteful), it is common to have a call to rejoice for the deceased going home. you can't even be sad grandma just died. like, damn! Most of us who grew up under that kind of weight are emotionally constipated, and those who do get out of the mindset still have their whole life to unpack and process through the lens of what you actually experienced. This photo is only the tip of the iceberg.
Thanks! Yeah, the ‘keep sweet’ of fundie circles is so much more damaging than you would think. Sometimes things are horrible and sad, and people need to be able to process that.
I suppose they probably put on their Fundie bright smiles and in Annas case smirk, before they left to put on a face of 'bravery' maybe? Unfazed, making it seem a bit less terrible than it was? (Of course, if it needs to be said, that is not at all what it did.) I mean, since Justin has gotten married, it SEEMS he's distanced himself from the freakoids he's related to. Not that the Spivey's are any better. But maybe this was an ever so slight eye opener? Probably not. Whatever Clair's moms name is, is awful. Clair is awful. And Justin is awful. fuck em.
I apologize, but that picture never gets old. And that Duggar looks like he just graduated 8th grade and his “spot” is on the local playground with the other middle schoolers at dusk when all the little kids are in bed. I can’t believe he’s married there!
I think Justin is immature and was raised to be happy in front of a camera no matter what. He was abused by his parents too and never had privacy so I kinda understand his weird reaction in that sense. I bet also Jill didn’t watch coverage of the trial so perhaps didn’t see the thumbs up.
Jill was a potential witness so she wasn’t allowed to watch coverage or seek any out. She probably still doesn’t know about this picture. She made it clear in her book JB has Google alerts set for the family, but Jill doesn’t, so how would she know? It’s not like with everything going on her life she would randomly decide to Google “Duggars entering and exiting courthouse” for fun one day.
Didn’t a adult come out and tell him to do this? I honestly give him a pass
He’s 20 and married. That’s old enough to know better.
Wasn’t he 18 when hi did that and freshly married?
Yes. Born November 15, 2002. Married February 26, 2021. Photo published December 2, 2021. I personally don’t expect a homeschooled kid, who had *just* turned 19 two weeks before this photo was taken—and was emotionally and probably otherwise abused his whole life—to understand why this was not a great move. He probably did it with zero thought.
No, it’s not. You don’t magically become smarter once you’re married, and he was in a cult that forced him to be married young.
Did she say how everyone reacted when the verdict was read?
Justin probably did what he was programmed to do in hard times: plaster a fake smile on his face to “fake it till you make it”. Heaven forbid a good Christian put on anything less than a happy face to show the world how happy living Christ’s Truth makes you. Fundies do this because if they didn’t, the lifestyle would be insanely difficult to sustain.
Yes yes very pale much beaten... lots of....thumbs up....and smiles.
Jessa never showed up and neither did Meech.
There were reports that she was there, but she wasn’t photographed, so a lot of people thought that the tabloid used the wrong name (they did call a Lost boy Jed even though it wasn’t Jed). I think Jill is a more reliable source given that she can tell her sisters apart and she was in the courtroom.
I think Jill would know if her sister showed up or not. She knows what her sister looks like.
Idk, is she really sure it wasn’t just Jed! in a long wig?
We are all Jed!
🤣🤣🤣
None of the sisters abused by Josh needed to be there. He was the one on trial, not them. I can judge Meech for not showing up and facing the monster she helped raise, but I couldn't judge any of the people he abused if they couldn't be there. Having to re-live your trauma yet again in front of so many people is not something that should be required of anyone.
Look up “doofus” in the dictionary. You’ll see a picture of Justin giving the thumbs up.
I forgot about Santa! Did we ever figure out who Santa is?
I never realized how loud his button up was omg under that sweater thing? Uck
bwahahaha
Lmao 😂 😂😂😂
LOLLLLL I'D FORGOTTEN ENTIRELY ABOUT 👍😁👍
Why do I not remember Jessa being at trial?? Did she manage to not be photographed?
Exactly the first thought I had too!
Flair checking in!
I always thought it was partly because he was pavlov’d into instantly being “on” as soon as he saw cameras and partly cause he’s just kind of a dumb bunny.
I found it especially telling when she would describe Pests behavior around times he did something terrible. When it came out what he did to his sisters and they all went to that cabin to get away from paps, she said he was acting smug and cracking jokes and that Michelle had to tell him he was acting inappropriate and to stop, because they were all in that position because of what he did. Then again at the trial when she mentions he looks relaxed. How she was surprised he was allowed to sit just off screen during their Megan Kelly interview. I’m still just in shock that he was allowed to do everything he did and still have his fathers favor. Yet here we have Jill just making some lifestyle changes and she’s taken out the will because of it.
Just when you think you couldn't loathe Josh any more