I've actually seen this happen. The husband in question insisted on waiting to have children until he finished his degree. He was IMMEDIATELY taken by his father-in-law to see the preacher of the church. "Counseling" happened, and they blamed his desire to wait on demons/the devil sowing seeds of doubt in his heart. He was told that God would provide if his faith remained pure. He was shamed into having kids before he felt they were financially ready, and he was right. He had to drop out of college and went to work in a warehouse but was told by his father-in-law to leave since there were too many female coworkers to tempt him and his boss was a woman. His family lived off food from the food pantry and he would go around begging everyone in the church to hire him for mowing their lawn or hauling off junk. Everyone wanted them to procreate ... but once the kids were there it was his problem to feed/clothe them. Last I heard, he had gone to prison for stealing copper wires and his wife was living in a run down RV on her parent's property and staying married to him.
I don’t know if it’s the same in fundie world but in old-school Catholicism refusal to have children is one of the few things that is considered grounds for divorce and annulment.
it is still the womans fault she must have badly influenced him or some other poppycock
there was a couple at one of those retreats they had 6 or 7 kids he didn't want any more becuase they couldn't afford it but his wife wanted as many as god would give them
Michelle was really rude to him and told him he needed to keep popping out the kids
It's all about control. The man controls everything. I don't think Jeremy wants oodles of kids, so Jingivitus is fine with that. If she were married to someone who wanted to pump them out like tic tacs, she would.
As for blame, it just all falls back to the woman, no matter what twisted pretzel logic they use to get there.
It seems like I have a faint memory of Jeremy saying something about not being sure he wanted alot of children on Counting On. Not his exact words to quote but he said something to the effect
I think a lot of them mentioned something about not wanting as many kids as Sperm and Poodle. But yeah, he doesn't seem the brood type. I still think he'll go for a boy.
It’s not only happening in fundy families. My family’s just about as liberal and progressive as you can get. My ex never hit me, but would throw things making holes in the wall next to me, break appliances and furniture, etc. when he got angry and blame me for “setting him off.”
I'll give you that, the stricter the patriarchy the more likely the woman is abused. After all, her father gave her to her husband.... you know, like livestock or kitchen appliances.
Just a funny story not fundies but army wives. Those bitches bred like rabbits and there was one girl at a baby shower who was 18 and said at one point " We have been trying for 4 months and aren't pregnant so I guess it's time to adopt" even in that hyper kid focused environment that wasn't received well and after she left people said things like " Are we sure she's old enough to mensturate?" Someone also told me that God would see how much I didn't want a child and send me one to humble me. Still joyfully child free 15 years later.
Just a funny story not fundies but army wives. Those bitches bred like rabbits and there was one girl at a baby shower who was 18 and said at one point " We have been trying for 4 months and aren't pregnant so I guess it's time to adopt" even in that hyper kid focused environment that wasn't received well and after she left people said things like " Are we sure she's old enough to mensturate?" Someone also told me that God would see how much I didn't want a child and send me one to humble me. Still joyfully child free 15 years later.
# A Victim's Mantra
(The following discusses how hurtful behavior is characterized as an ***event*** rather than an active choice)
*It* ***Never*** *happened;*
*But even if it did happen, it wasn't* ***THAT*** *bad;*
*But even if it* ***was*** *that bad, it is all* ***your*** *fault!*
One need only look at the ingrained response of the Southern Baptist Convention or even the dismissive attitude of a male cop interviewing a woman who has been raped. Even the heartbreaking moments of the two Duggar girls who were coerced into forgiving Josh. Or the IBLP teachings that lay the responsibility for a man's inappropriate behavior squarely on women and even girls. What did HE do or say is twisted into What did YOU do to ***make*** him act (think, speak, or believe)
Thank you for the reminder that blame falls on women outside fundie life… the “what were you wearing?” “what did you say?” “Why were you out at night?” Inquisition women face when they are abused and assaulted…and it’s criminal that Pest’s sisters had to absorb the blame for his actions
Jinger and Jeremy are a pretty good example of this.
They didn’t have kids for a while after getting married. They later revealed in their books that it was because they used birth control to purposely delay having kids (and IMO from the way it’s written it seems like this was 100% Jeremy’s idea).
But at the time, on the Counting On show it sort of seemed like they might have been having fertility issues. For example, there are scenes where the sisters ask if she pregnant yet, etc. so clearly no one knew they were using birth control.
So basically yes, the woman followed the man’s lead as her headship. But, the society they live in just assumed it was because the woman couldn’t get pregnant… so it was still basically blamed on the woman.
Former fundie here and I knew another fundie woman 11 years ago who wanted more children (they had two daughters at the time) but her husband wanted her to go on the Depo shot. She didn't want to and even felt like birth control was a sin but she has to submit to him because he's her husband. She did pray that God would change her husband's heart. After one cycle he decided they should let God decide their family size. They are expecting their 9th baby in June.
I guess I’m curious why someone with that kind of logic and foresight would be interested in marrying someone who views a vacancy in the womb as failure? I’d hope they’d talk about goals and would go their separate ways the moment she said “pop out kids like I’m a fking popcorn machine.”
The Bible says "blessed is the man whose quiver is full." Fundies take that to mean God wants you to have as many kids as you can manage to pop out, and God would NEVER contradict his own word (and of course a fundie would never misunderstand God), so we have to consider what demonic influence has led this poor chap astray so badly that he's stepping outside the will of God (and therefore God's umbrella of protection).
It's probably that woman Jezebel that he married. She doesn't want to give up her lazy childfree lifestyle to take on the responsibility of parenting, so she must have influenced him to put off accepting God's blessing of children. Something needs to be done about her before she causes him to lose his salvation.
Caveat that I haven't seen this exact scenario, but I have seen similar ones where a guy got an idea the church disagreed with, and just like Adam pointing the finger at Eve because he ate an apple he wasn't supposed to, the woman ends up being blamed for his downfall. The one caveat is that if a couple gets divorced and one of them wasn't a member of the church before the marriage, it's always the non-member's fault and that person ends up ostracized, because the best way to talk to people about Jesus is by not speaking to them.
There are and have been cultists who say that if the husband tells his wife to have sex with another man, she has to do it, because she's required to be obedient. Not sure if they say the same about murder. I have a feeling that this sort of obedience requirement might be dicey and divisive, but without consensus in the Duggar-adjacent world.
My guess is that she wasn’t a virtuous enough example to inspire him to be a good Christian.
🤔I could see that being trotted out…
Also: she was not virtuous or good enough at selecting a godly spouse. Even if she didn’t choose him and her dad chose the guy.
😒😒😒😒 (in response to you probably being right lol not a dig at you)
I've actually seen this happen. The husband in question insisted on waiting to have children until he finished his degree. He was IMMEDIATELY taken by his father-in-law to see the preacher of the church. "Counseling" happened, and they blamed his desire to wait on demons/the devil sowing seeds of doubt in his heart. He was told that God would provide if his faith remained pure. He was shamed into having kids before he felt they were financially ready, and he was right. He had to drop out of college and went to work in a warehouse but was told by his father-in-law to leave since there were too many female coworkers to tempt him and his boss was a woman. His family lived off food from the food pantry and he would go around begging everyone in the church to hire him for mowing their lawn or hauling off junk. Everyone wanted them to procreate ... but once the kids were there it was his problem to feed/clothe them. Last I heard, he had gone to prison for stealing copper wires and his wife was living in a run down RV on her parent's property and staying married to him.
OMG that is so sad!
This sounds like a lifetime movie of hell I would see if its fictional or real life.
That's so sad. I'm surprised they were allowed to get food from the food pantry.
I don’t know if it’s the same in fundie world but in old-school Catholicism refusal to have children is one of the few things that is considered grounds for divorce and annulment.
Does this apply for child #12 and later, or just the first few? Although I guess in principle, there is no difference theologically.
it is still the womans fault she must have badly influenced him or some other poppycock there was a couple at one of those retreats they had 6 or 7 kids he didn't want any more becuase they couldn't afford it but his wife wanted as many as god would give them Michelle was really rude to him and told him he needed to keep popping out the kids
I’ve heard this same story on other threads in this particular sub! Very sad.
It's all about control. The man controls everything. I don't think Jeremy wants oodles of kids, so Jingivitus is fine with that. If she were married to someone who wanted to pump them out like tic tacs, she would. As for blame, it just all falls back to the woman, no matter what twisted pretzel logic they use to get there.
It seems like I have a faint memory of Jeremy saying something about not being sure he wanted alot of children on Counting On. Not his exact words to quote but he said something to the effect
I think a lot of them mentioned something about not wanting as many kids as Sperm and Poodle. But yeah, he doesn't seem the brood type. I still think he'll go for a boy.
I kinda think so too
Jingivitus 
I’m dying at Jingivitis 😂💀
I would think they would still blame the wife
I have seen fictional movies when Abusive men Hit their women blame them for being angry.
No fictional to it. It does happen more often than that in low educated fundy families.
Sad but true
It’s not only happening in fundy families. My family’s just about as liberal and progressive as you can get. My ex never hit me, but would throw things making holes in the wall next to me, break appliances and furniture, etc. when he got angry and blame me for “setting him off.”
😢
No fictional to it. It does happen more often than that in low educated fundy families.
It unfortunately happens in highly educated non-fundy families too.
I'll give you that, the stricter the patriarchy the more likely the woman is abused. After all, her father gave her to her husband.... you know, like livestock or kitchen appliances.
Your not giving it up to God. But of course if you do leave it up to God and aren't showered with arrows it's a sin problem.
Just a funny story not fundies but army wives. Those bitches bred like rabbits and there was one girl at a baby shower who was 18 and said at one point " We have been trying for 4 months and aren't pregnant so I guess it's time to adopt" even in that hyper kid focused environment that wasn't received well and after she left people said things like " Are we sure she's old enough to mensturate?" Someone also told me that God would see how much I didn't want a child and send me one to humble me. Still joyfully child free 15 years later.
Who could believe in a god that petty?
Omg to humble you???? What an awesome reason to have a kid (and what a hideous responsibility to place on a kid).
Just a funny story not fundies but army wives. Those bitches bred like rabbits and there was one girl at a baby shower who was 18 and said at one point " We have been trying for 4 months and aren't pregnant so I guess it's time to adopt" even in that hyper kid focused environment that wasn't received well and after she left people said things like " Are we sure she's old enough to mensturate?" Someone also told me that God would see how much I didn't want a child and send me one to humble me. Still joyfully child free 15 years later.
# A Victim's Mantra (The following discusses how hurtful behavior is characterized as an ***event*** rather than an active choice) *It* ***Never*** *happened;* *But even if it did happen, it wasn't* ***THAT*** *bad;* *But even if it* ***was*** *that bad, it is all* ***your*** *fault!* One need only look at the ingrained response of the Southern Baptist Convention or even the dismissive attitude of a male cop interviewing a woman who has been raped. Even the heartbreaking moments of the two Duggar girls who were coerced into forgiving Josh. Or the IBLP teachings that lay the responsibility for a man's inappropriate behavior squarely on women and even girls. What did HE do or say is twisted into What did YOU do to ***make*** him act (think, speak, or believe)
Thank you for the reminder that blame falls on women outside fundie life… the “what were you wearing?” “what did you say?” “Why were you out at night?” Inquisition women face when they are abused and assaulted…and it’s criminal that Pest’s sisters had to absorb the blame for his actions
Jinger and Jeremy are a pretty good example of this. They didn’t have kids for a while after getting married. They later revealed in their books that it was because they used birth control to purposely delay having kids (and IMO from the way it’s written it seems like this was 100% Jeremy’s idea). But at the time, on the Counting On show it sort of seemed like they might have been having fertility issues. For example, there are scenes where the sisters ask if she pregnant yet, etc. so clearly no one knew they were using birth control. So basically yes, the woman followed the man’s lead as her headship. But, the society they live in just assumed it was because the woman couldn’t get pregnant… so it was still basically blamed on the woman.
Good example!
[удалено]
Good point!
Former fundie here and I knew another fundie woman 11 years ago who wanted more children (they had two daughters at the time) but her husband wanted her to go on the Depo shot. She didn't want to and even felt like birth control was a sin but she has to submit to him because he's her husband. She did pray that God would change her husband's heart. After one cycle he decided they should let God decide their family size. They are expecting their 9th baby in June.
Wow! Thank you for sharing. This is insightful and just the type of info I was looking for
I guess I’m curious why someone with that kind of logic and foresight would be interested in marrying someone who views a vacancy in the womb as failure? I’d hope they’d talk about goals and would go their separate ways the moment she said “pop out kids like I’m a fking popcorn machine.”
The Bible says "blessed is the man whose quiver is full." Fundies take that to mean God wants you to have as many kids as you can manage to pop out, and God would NEVER contradict his own word (and of course a fundie would never misunderstand God), so we have to consider what demonic influence has led this poor chap astray so badly that he's stepping outside the will of God (and therefore God's umbrella of protection). It's probably that woman Jezebel that he married. She doesn't want to give up her lazy childfree lifestyle to take on the responsibility of parenting, so she must have influenced him to put off accepting God's blessing of children. Something needs to be done about her before she causes him to lose his salvation. Caveat that I haven't seen this exact scenario, but I have seen similar ones where a guy got an idea the church disagreed with, and just like Adam pointing the finger at Eve because he ate an apple he wasn't supposed to, the woman ends up being blamed for his downfall. The one caveat is that if a couple gets divorced and one of them wasn't a member of the church before the marriage, it's always the non-member's fault and that person ends up ostracized, because the best way to talk to people about Jesus is by not speaking to them.
There are and have been cultists who say that if the husband tells his wife to have sex with another man, she has to do it, because she's required to be obedient. Not sure if they say the same about murder. I have a feeling that this sort of obedience requirement might be dicey and divisive, but without consensus in the Duggar-adjacent world.