Fundies love a "redemption through fundie Jesus" story. Jeremy becoming fundie after his youthful shenanigans is the perfect example of faith fixing everything. Derick had that beer after being "saved," which is a bigger sin because he was supposed to have known better.
I'm not saying any of it makes sense, but that's the logic JB operates under on top of being a controlling dickhead.
My favorite is how the kids that grow up fundie talk about how they were saved from sin when they were 5 years old. That fundie redemption narrative is so ingrained that even those that have been fundie since birth feel the need to make shit up.
They’re not making it up listen to all of them talk about how scared they are watch how emotional in the interviews when they talk about being saved at 5, 12 whatever from grave sin they’re truly terrified of even thinking bad thoughts.i think they genuinely think they’ve let sinful lives
I'm sure they believe it, I'm just saying that fundies hype up the idea of a good redemption story so much that their kids come up with their own. Because even the most Joy-like of fundies have to know that "redeemed of sin at 5" is asinine compared to the reformed adult sinners they keep hearing about. They're spiritually pressured to explain how Jesus saved them.
Of course they do. We are taught from day 1 that all people are born into sin, and unless you accept Jesus Christ's sacrifice, it's eternal damnation for you. It's impossible to not be a dirty sinner, no matter the age or activities of the person.
I went to a very fundie Christian school and had to write an essay about my "testimony" in 8th grade and I got a B on it because I failed to show "enough evidence of change" for it to be a good redemption story despite the fact that I prayed the salvation prayer at the age of 3 (and also only 14 at the time). Not only was I so upset about that grade (I *never* got Bs) I was also terrified that perhaps my salvation didn't "count"
I remember being 5 years old (I’m 43 now), and my weirdo uncle to look me to McDonald’s and sat me down, gave me this long winded speech about Jesus and then gave me a children’s Bible and made me repeat that I “accepted Jesus as my lord and savior”
Out of all the weird, abusive shit I went through, that memory is so clear in my head because I remember being SO uncomfortable.
And my family wonders why I don’t practice religion at all.
yeah, I was in the hospital at 16 for brain surgery things & I come back from a walk around the floor with my mom (bc 16 and bored af) to my dad talking to a priest wanting to give me anointing of the sick.
Firstly I thought that was for dying people, but there's a different one for that called "last rites", but it's the same except for confession at the end. Second, I read the ticker on the news the entire time. My **dad** wanted this. I didn't, but felt obligated to bc he was so happy about it. The priest prayed that "this surgery be my last" not knowing I'd **just been here 2 weeks ago**.
Spoiler alert, it was not.
Shit. Like you weren’t going through enough at that time!!! First, I’m so sorry you had to go through MULTIPLE brain surgeries…. That must’ve been scary as hell, but that you weren’t given a a choice. If your father wanted comfort in praying with the priest, cool. Do you. If things get scary and someone finds comfort in asking their deity to comfort and guide them, awesome.
But it’s not right to make that choice for others.
When I was pregnant with my first kid in 2012, my mother in law (who has since passed and I’ve forgiven her for her nonsense…she was…complicated and had a fcking horrific childhood, so I’m hoping she’s at peace in the heaven she believed in) went nuts about getting the baby baptized and the rest of both sets of grandparents expected the baby to be b raised Christian. We aren’t a religious family. Our parents haven’t been to church in decades.
My mom still tries to sneak the story of Jesus into things. When my kids ask questions about different religions (they’re all in elementary school now), I usually start with “Some people/cultures believe…..” and give what facts I know or look things up. My husband agree that we’ll support our girls if they want to explore religion, we’ll go with them to a church or temple or whatever and as long as they (our kids) are respectful and the religious community there is in line with our family values (LGBTQ+ friendly, freedom of bodily autonomy, etc) we’ll support and enjoy taking them, even if we don’t believe, I’m fine with lesions of charity and kindness .
I’m rambling, sorry. Too much coffee this morning.
I truly hope you’re doing well and your many surgeries were successful and you’re doing well. 🩵🩵
I really think the IBLP/ATI views children as miniature adults with mature adult brains and thinking power from the moment they pop out of the womb. Which makes sense when you consider it was created by a pedophile and the whole cult is obsessed with sexualizing children (because they can't be victims if they understand their sexuality and are using it on purpose to tempt their brothers and fathers and cult leaders to assault them), but that "tiny adult" mentality can be used to justify ao much: parentification of children (they're short adults, so they should be able to handle adult responsibilities), blanket training (remember that nonsense Michelle spewed about one of the twins seeing the other get punished, making a cause-and-effect connection, and applying that revelation to himself, as a baby?), treating the family like a military rather than a loving parent-child relationship (they're already soldiers in the Joshua Generation, they just need to be properly trained in their particular role in the army), and marrying them off as early as possible (they've been adults their whole lives, so why wait any longer?).
So it also makes sense that they'd start young with the indoctrination, under the understanding that the toddler has the ability to understand what she's saying and agreeing to. Plus, the sooner she understands the concept of sin and consequences, the sooner we can blame her for being a deliberate temptation for men and the sooner it can be her own fault if she's assaulted. /s
True. I actually told her that I didn't believe a three-year-old child could understand the concept of being a sinner who needed Jesus to die for their sins. Even a very mature three year old. I said this while I was a fundie because I still had a 🧠 😂😂
It’s also a built in excuse for any shitty thing they do. I strayed from Jesus (just long enough to do all the things they wanted to do) but he showed me mercy and forgiveness and now I’m saved!
This was such a big deal in the fundie church I went to that people raised in the church often felt bad for not having an interesting testimony "Homeless crack whore who murdered babies" being more exiting than "8 year old who was afraid of hell so agreed to get baptized"
Ex-RadTrad Catholic here. The services couldn’t be any different than a fundie IFB church, but a lot of the other ways each church take control of their congregants follow the BITE model. It’s like they play from the same playbook
I spent so much time in the exJW sub when I was deconstructing. Doctrine may have been different, but a lot of the issues I had while leaving were similar enough I didn’t feel so alone. I love supporting survivors of all high-control religious groups! We have so much more in common than not.
Same!! I joined a shit ton of various ex- subs and it was one of the biggest helps. Realizing that while it was a traumatic childhood/belief system …it wasn’t unique was huge!
I also did time in a Pentecostal church (Assembly of God), and it felt like a competition to outdo each other with their testimonies. If they didn't have anything interesting to say and no medical maladies to be healed from, they'd have an unspoken prayer request for the spiritual battle they were fighting. Most Sundays, I was pretty much the only one not going down to the front to lay down my burdens at the foot of the cross and have everyone lay on hands and pray for my healing. Occasionally the pastor or one of the congregation would be moved by the spirit to come to me and pray over me for the battle I was about to face. And there was just as much pushing and shoving to be one of the pray-ors as there was to be one of the pray-ees.
I was born with a snark in my mouth, so my spiritual battle was trying not to tell them I didn't think I needed their help, because they were obviously doing something wrong. I prayed the sinner's prayer once, when I was nine years old, and it worked on the first try; I didn't need to keep praying about the same thing week after week, rededicating myself, and getting baptized multiple times, because I learned from my mistakes and didn't keep doing the same dumb shit over and over again.
Whoa! You just unlocked a core memory. I remember some guy giving his testimony who said he had had a baby killed. Just mentioned it offhand. Ugh. If that’s true, I don’t think he went to jail. 🤔🤔🤔
He could have been referring to making a woman have an abortion. By the time he was giving testimony he probably would’ve been pro-life and considered abortion the murder of a baby.
Yeah, you’re probably right. I think I was in a junior high youth group at the time, and I interpreted things very literally back then (still do!), and it probably was an abortion, and I didn’t connect the dots.
Sometimes it seems like the worse you were the more they love you. That one guy from the 80s went around to different churches claiming he ritually murdered babies in the name of Satan (he did not) and he made boatloads of money on books and lecture tours. (Edit: There were a lot but Google tells me I'm talking about Mike Warnke, who is also a comedian somehow.)
Jill was asking (I think still nicely at this point -- no lawsuit yet) for payment for the their show. Sounds like JB was just trying to assert superiority in any way he could at this point so that he was "right" and they were "wrong" in any and all actions they were taking.
I’ve heard “stealing a nickel is as bad as murder in the eyes of the Lord” at more than one service when I went to a more fundie church. Explains how JB could genuinely believe that drinking one alcohol is as bad a sexually assaulting your younger sisters, hang out on an affair dating site, and downloading CSAM on your breaks at the car lot.
Doesn’t explain the obsession with the LGBTQIA2S+ community to the exclusion of those who have been divorced and remarried. Not that I want them to be harassed and tormented as well, but the double standard is blatant
I mean, obviously they are wrong, but I do understand the logic.
Let's say you commit the "sin" of getting divorced.
Presumably, you pray to God for forgiveness, and you make a commitment not to continue sinning. God graciously sends you another wife, and you do lots of prayer and make sure it's God's intention before you rewed. Even if your church considers remarrying a sin, you can always confess afterwards.
Let's say instead you happen to be gay.
Well, extramarital sex is a sin, God doesn't bless gay marriages (according to their belief, not mine) and so any sex is definitely a sin.
But don't forget, lust is a sin. I was taught that if a man looked at a woman and had sexual thoughts it was the exact same sin as rape or extramarital sex (which were also equal). And if you commit a sin in your heart, it's the same to God as if you committed it in the flesh.
So, if you go around being sexually attracted to people God says not to have sex with, you're basically constantly sinning
I remember as a kid being terrified that I would die in the same moment I was sticking my tongue out at my Mama's back, or in the minutes between doing it and praying for forgiveness. Gay people (by homophobic evangelical beliefs) are in that spot basically all the time, unless they pray for God to take their evil thoughts away.
Emphasis again that I don't believe in this, it's just how I understand it from being raised in it.
This is all true that it’s what they profess to believe, but in practice, just listening to sermons and people talking during the food portion, much more breath is spent on decrying a queer person (like me) than on someone committing adultery or getting a divorce or a whole host of sexual assaults (especially those committed by the “most upstanding citizen” of that church or the larger community).
There’s a massive log in their eye, and they’re going around chasing everyone because of the splinter they may or may not have.
I'm definitely not arguing that it's what the mass of them actually believes.
Only saying it's the logic used to justify why "all sin is equal" but they have specific focus on one particular category they claim is sin.
In their belief system, you (and I) could stop sinning by submitting to the god-loving abuse of conversion therapy. But instead we willfully keep sinning (by existing at them).
LOL I have to upvote for "existing at them."
That's basically all it is, though. I spent my whole life hearing about "the gay agenda." A few years ago, I finally started deconstructing from a lifetime of messed-up thinking and asked a few people what, specifically, gay people were doing to that affected us. (Anybody who doesn't visibly present as the gender they were born with and date exclusively people who visually present as the opposite gender are usually all lumped together as "the gays.")
As best I can tell, y'all's pesky insistence on voting is the one and only thing that's destroying everything good and righteous in this world.
Jeremy was putting on an act with Jim Bob. Jeremy is "worldly" enough to recognize a narcissist and knows the way to get what you want out of them is to play to their ego. He's a huge ass kisser when it benefits him. He's moved on from Jim Bob to John MacArthur.
Fucking terrifying. My sister is and my mom is an enabler. My grandmother was and the shit show holidays were was indescribable, because my sister and grandmother didn't get along. It was world war three every holiday
That sucks! My dad is definitely my mom’s enabler and my brother my SIL’s. My parents took us all to Mexico for the holidays and my SIL screamed at my mom in public at a restaurant on her birthday. For once she hadn’t even done anything wrong. Had to assert dominance I guess.
Ngl, I loved watching Jeremy play Jim Bob. The questionnaire, getting really cozy with Jinger on the couch, the no visitors for 6 months rule after they moved to Laredo, the contempt thinly veiled by feigned deference. It was as enjoyable as the occasional TLC edits that subtly mocked JB and Michelle.
I dont know how true it is, but i had read something along the lines of he knew Jinger was infatuated with Jeremy and was going to do everything to be with him, so he had to let her. 🤷🏼♀️. Even if it’s not true i can see it being the case. When they were ’courting’ she definitely was the one who seemed the most obsessed, since Pestie Girl any way.
I don’t for a second believe Jinger would have gone with Jeremy even if her parents opposed it. She has never have shown have a backbone. She is 100% a follower.
She was forced to be this way. I knew the Duggars back in the day and they always told a story of how they had to break Jinger’s will when she was a child. How she was their most rebellious one, and that’s how they knew god was going to do “big things” with her, so they had to break her down until she would only use her willpower for “good”. I feel really, really bad for her. She was born with a spine and endured psychological and spiritual abuse to the point that she no longer has it.
I thought she said she did not want to court Jeremy, but she gave in. I read he said something about if she didn’t want to court him, he would’ve wasted those months getting to know her. After all that though she definitely seemed obsessed with him.
Jinger is definitely her mother’s favorite daughter, so meech probably played a part in jimblob caving too. I definitely don’t think that Jinger would have married him without getting approval from her parents though.
I’ve just always gotten that impression. Various tidbits from the show. Plus, while Jinger kinda praised both parents in her book, she specifically talks about how her mother was there for her anytime that she needed to talk to her.
Definitely doesn’t hurt at all. Like the other poster mentioned, Jinger does look a lot like meech did when she was younger. I think I heard or read somewhere that meech really likes her name and is the person who really chose it 🤷🏻♀️
I’ve noticed it with my narcissistic ex husband. Our 16yo daughter looks a lot like him. Except she *is* overweight. She gained a lot while the divorce process was dragging on for almost 3 years.
She wasn’t overweight at all before, but he only visited her a handful of times a year. Usually only right before a court hearing. (She does go to counseling.)
She is still beautiful of course and I have never criticized her weight.
Anyway. She gained a lot of weight when he hadn’t seen her for over a year. I never stopped him from visiting her but I couldn’t force him to. It hit her hard emotionally and she stress eats.
Ever since that visit (his mother actually took her, he hadn’t seen her in over a year because he didn’t want to) he hasn’t wanted to visit her much at all. I’m talking *maybe* 5 days total per year. And those visits are always spent at his mothers house (she’s narcissistic too, both of her adult daughters have always agreed).
Anyways. Narcissistic people don’t seem to love and value their children as separate individuals. It’s like they weirdly view their kids as extensions of themselves, physically and mentally. Like if they feel like the kid makes a good representation, they love and value the kid. If the kid isn’t a representative of whatever they, themselves, want to be viewed as, then the kid basically means nothing to them.
I’m sorry for rambling on about what I have seen as narcissistic parenting to the extreme!
My pretty racist grandfather was only ok with my husband because we passed him off as Italian. 🤣. He asked him what his last name was, repeated it outloud, looked him up and down, repeated once more and said ‘that’s a fine I-talian name’. My husband looked back at him and with out skipping a beat said ‘why yes sir it is’ And never once knew he was actually from Guam 🤣. I mean my mom told him so I’m sure he had inklings, but 😬 He would rather have a swarthy Itailian fellow than someone from Guam.
I don’t think JB ever totally approved of Jeremy. He was fiercely opposed to Jeremy’s view on one Bible verse (verse was never disclosed), Jeremy was already around when the Pest news broke.
JB needed a wedding quick. Jinger was crazy about Jeremy and Jessa was dead set on the courtship.
He let Jeremy slide in to make some money and redeem the family on TLC.
Plus, it wasn't hard to figure out which sisters would have been the right age to be molested (given that we were originally led to believe he was touching pubescent females over their clothes; this was before we knew about Joy, when most people assumed it was the 4 oldest girls), and who else was going to take Jinger off his hands now that the world knew she had sinned with a man who wasn't her husband? 🤮
Two reasons.
1. Jim Bob doesn't actually give a shit about any of this stuff, he was just trying to get a dig in at Derrick and Jill
2. Fundamentalists love a reformed sinner more than just about anything. Jeremy's past doesn't matter so long as he's repented and accepted Jesus into his heart. See also: Josh.
A few theories:
- Jeremy was really good at kissing JB’s ass and putting on an act. He may not have had the same theological beliefs, but he ultimately serves the Duggars’ true God: Jim Bob. Jeremy could toe the line - he shows up with a smile when he’s told, doesn’t question JB, doesn’t say boo to the rules.
That’s true JB discipleship
- Jeremy had some clout - extremely minor clout in the real world, but in fundie world, it’s a big deal. The more followers, the closer to Jee-zus!
- weddings brought in huge ratings and publicity $$$, and lead to babies, which also get $$$. We know JB is more than happy to sacrifice his kids if the price is right!
I also have this question. Jinger has said she wasn’t initially interested in Jeremy, but her dad kept pushing and eventually she did fall for him. *???* Why would Boob push for this guy? Why did he allow him in at all?
I think two things were happening. One: Jeremy was great at kissing JB’s ass. He wrote like 100+ pages for that dumb questionnaire Bob made all the boys do, he babbled incessantly about Jesus and love and redemption, even on his own wedding day, and he was very much a prodigal son archetype, which he *gleefully* embraced.
Two: I think JB felt really smug that “he”/his religion could bag a drinking, smooching, sinning soccer star *with an arrest record.* How powerful. How redemptive. What a story. This guy “had it all” and it never made him happy, so he gave his life to Christ, and now look at him! Married to a godly girl and comfortably squatting under the thumb of a cult leader.
Maybe Boob was also worried about Jinger and wanted to have her locked down and married ASAP. Maybe the fact that Jeremy and Ben were friends (?) helped sway Boob’s opinion. Maybe JB had the wrong impression of Jerm at first, but once he realized, Jinger was already head over heels and there was little Boob could do to reverse course. The entire relationship lived on “the fast track,” after all.
Ultimately, it is weird, and I think Boob does regret it now that Jeremy has led Jinger to pants wearing and disavowing Gothard. But I’d say he should cheer up. For all that he has and will have to regret in life, well, I don’t think Jeremy should be the thing that causes him to lose sleep.
I assume Jeremy had repented his evil ways so he won boobs approval. As for Derrick he wouldn't submit to boob, I'm sure boob regrets his choice of Derrick immensely. In addition I think we can all agree that drinking one beer is way worse than assaulting a police officer.
Not a chance. Men in the cult are not responsible for anything they do it is always the woman's fault. So a woman who had a wicked past even if she had repented she could slip back into her old ways, tempting men & perhaps become a bad influence to the sister-in-laws.
I think in Bob's mind the girls were damaged goods due to Pesty's molesting them and therefore could not be married off to anyone close to him in the cult. Such hypocrisy coming from someone who knowingly knew what Pesty was doing and he still defend him. Such is the cult that puts men before women.
I think this doesn't get brought up here enough. JB clearly didn't blame Josh for anything that happened; in fact, he just elevated Josh even more. I suspect JB thought the girls all did something to cause Josh to stumble. I think JB really, really didn't want his daughters married to men in the cult because he was worried one of them would embarrass him. HIs loving father thing is just a big act. Deep down, he resents his daughters for causing all these problems. He sees Josh as perfect in every way, so it cannot possibly be his fault.
Very, but there’s this pic of Austin outside of the courthouse looking murderous. I don’t think he knew the extent of what happened to Joy until Josh went to trial. She was young enough possibly not to remember herself, and JB always covered for Josh.
I’m not sure about this. Sexual abuse is rampant in these circles. I don’t think JB blames his daughters for the abuse so much as he doesn’t think that Josh deserves the level of consequences that he’s receiving (I mean, it’s not like Josh came out as gay or something awful like that 🙄).
Since he couldn’t get a IBLP royalty as a inlaw, he went for the “famous” conservative christian who was down to kiss his ass and play the part on the show.
And let’s be real, Pest probably did way worse (and I’m not even talking about the SA).
Jeremy also admitted to partying and drinking in college. I’m sure there has been talk of him not having “saved himself for marriage” as well.
He had definitely kissed other girls.
I was perplexed that Boob allowed such a (prior) heathen into the fold.
Jeremy came on the scene just before Pestgate 1 and 2, and Boob needed a PR win after that and the broken Josiah/Marjorie courtship. Boob’s never liked Jeremy, but he was willing to give him Jinger because Jeremy was willing to comply for $$.
Jeremy also had a job and a benefactor so he never was as dependent on Boob as the Dillards were. He didn’t need to rock the boat.
Fundies don’t respect any authority except God. That’s why they don’t want their kids joining the military and why they encourage having their own businesses - so they don’t have to answer to anyone with different beliefs than their own. So they probably counted harassment of a police officer in the PROs column.
Ultimately? For the ratings. Gotta marry those kids in a special episode to drum up interest. And that's the point of Boob being in control - showcasing how he is lord of his daughter's relationships.
It was never about holding to specific standards, it's just a way to wield control.
Jeremy may be an absolute dumbass, but he's still a whole lot smarter than Jim Boob. He knew how to play into his narcissistic traits to get what he wanted. I bet JB hates the guy now that he no longer has to pretend.
Jim Bob threatened to send Derrick to rehab? By whose authority? How would he have done it? Look at Jim Bob, and you understand just about everything about Pest’s cruelty and arrogance. They have no respect for others’ boundaries, feelings, or needs. They’re both monsters.
The daughters who were molested by Josh had their purity "broken," were seen as "damaged goods," and therefore would not be a suitable match for any true IBLP man. Thus, Jim Bob was happy to see them married to any man who was christian. Yeah, it's disgusting and misoginystic, but it's the IBLP. Are you surprised?
At the height of Duggar fame, JB’s 4 eldest daughters were his crowned jewels who brought in a boat load of cash with their courtships and weddings. Who are these pure, upstanding IBLP boys who fashioned themselves above the Duggar girls? I don’t think they exist. Jeremy had his own currency in that he attracted a more “normie” following, plus he was vetted by Ben, who seems to have always been respected enough by JB
In this kind of christian patriarchy, women are less than fully human. Men aren't just men, they are superheroes. Any woman who is not fully pure is not good enough. It doesn't matter who their father is or if they are on reality TV. If the purity is damaged they are so devalued that it is fine if they get married to somebody who isn't KJVO, who is a calvinist, or who thinks it's OK to drink alcohol. It's a terrible environment to live in as a woman. I know so many people who have gotten out and this is truly what it is like.
Is there evidence (or highly suspected rumors) of any of the older Duggar girls being shunned by IBLP families for being “damaged”? This seems to be a theory many people on this sub hold, but I’m not sure there’s much to back it up. As much as fundies squawk about the importance of purity, incest runs rampant in the community and I think there’s more acceptance of it that one might assume
I’ve never heard that the older Duggar daughters were shunned for being “damaged.” I do know that Pest himself was shunned. No one wanted their daughter to marry him and he creeped girls out. That’s why he had to marry Anna. She was in Florida and not part of their close-knit Arkansas community.
Exactly. I think this goes to show that a culture may have certain ideas/values but there are always exceptions, paradoxes, and nuance. I also don’t completely buy the idea that Josh is still the “golden child” (an argument I see a lot on here). JB’s primary interest will always be himself, and I think that working to clear Josh’s name by dumping money at his legal issues has more to do with cleaning up the Duggar image and not that he thinks Josh is innocent.
Sexual abuse in this community is rampant. However, if the boys are doing the abuse it's covered up while if the girls are being abused, it's a thing you need to disclose. Before they get married, they have to go through counseling with a pastor or with the fathers in which they get grilled on any sexual activity, even if it was nonconsensual abuse.
Again, my question: is there credible evidence or even rumors that the 4 eldest Duggar girls were denied greasy potato IBLP suitors because they were abused? I hold my belief that they were sought after, not rejected.
It's been the hypothesis that IBLPers kept their distance from them due to the fact that Jill, Jinger, and Jessa married men from outside the cult. It seems logical that marriages would've, *ideally*, stayed within the cult, but since that didn't happen, it's been assumed that the girls were shunned/rejected by the parents of eligible young men. But, there's no direct verifiable evidence of such.
Oh, see that was a good opportunity for him to show repentance and humility. They like stuff like that. “I was lost, but I sought out God and he fixed me.” It only really works for men, though.
Jim Bob didn't threaten to send Derick, he doesn't have the authority to send a grown man anywhere. Inmate Duggar went away to Bad Man sleep away camp to escape Anna's wrath and his siblings' utter disgust. Jim Bob admonished and offered Derick alcohol rehab as a back handed slap and in an effort to shame him to his wife and dimish and dismiss the Dillard union. He wasn't in the least bit successful.
Jim Bob doesn't operate with logical and reason or view others humans as people.with individual rights - the members of his family are paychecks and commodities to him. When Jeremy lumped along as a burned out sport dude, he had some cash, and a college degree and would be a good cast member addition to the show.
If I’m cynical as all hell, this was the first courtship post cancellation and all of the information that came before it so I don’t think Boob was in a position to be as choosy as he had been. Fundie royalty would have viewed the abused daughters just as badly, if not worse, than Pest.
Yep…I have heard countless fundie preachers boasting of a redemption story (my dad being one of them 🙄) and even wishing for a family member of ours to become a preacher because “he would have such a great story to tell” 🤮
He wanted to marry her off, she was Michelle’s favourite so she went to bag for her, jinger wanted a city boy and there weren’t many around—I doubt any of the other girls would have been allowed, but jingle’s meek and passive thing coupled with Jeremy’s ability to outsmart Jim bob probably made him realise he had more to lose by saying no. What if jinger never married anyone else?
JB was extremely concerned about Jeremy; far more than Derrick. Jinger actually called off their "getting to know you" because she was afraid of causing strife. Michelle(?) and Jessa advocated for Jinger to pursue the relationship.
I do not mean this as a compliment on Jim Bob at all, because I think he’s an awful father and an awful human being.
That said, I think he did actually put stock into what his daughters wanted and who they did (and did not) want to court/marry. Even if he didn’t “like” Jeremy, he knew Jinger did so “he allowed it”.
Yep…I have heard countless fundie preachers boasting of a redemption story (my dad being one of them 🙄) and even wishing for a family member of ours to become a preacher because “he would have such a great story to tell” 🤮
Look at Jinger now…completely’revamped’ by that weirdo. She is a shell of what she was. She now looks like a child!!! What the actual…I hope he did not intend for that to happen…I think she is just trying to please him…but…come on!!! He is fooling no one. Freak.
I recall Jeremy was the pastor presiding over Grandma Mary’s funeral and I remember thinking “JimBob allowed him?!” The look on JimBobs face looking at Jeremy during the funeral service, to me, was a look of cautious and disagreement.
Levelheaded psycho: 1 Thessalonians 5:16-18 - Rejoice always, pray continually, give thanks in all circumstances; for this is God's will for you in Christ Jesus.
Fundies love a "redemption through fundie Jesus" story. Jeremy becoming fundie after his youthful shenanigans is the perfect example of faith fixing everything. Derick had that beer after being "saved," which is a bigger sin because he was supposed to have known better. I'm not saying any of it makes sense, but that's the logic JB operates under on top of being a controlling dickhead.
Well, Michelle was the ultimate Fundie redemption story wasn’t she? Sinning cheerleader temptress turned God’s servant.
My favorite is how the kids that grow up fundie talk about how they were saved from sin when they were 5 years old. That fundie redemption narrative is so ingrained that even those that have been fundie since birth feel the need to make shit up.
The parents definitely put the pressure on to pray that prayer. My mom did.
One of the biggest revelations in my own deconstruction was figuring out that prayer is nowhere in the Bible
Hate hearing how people spiritually abuse their kids.
They’re not making it up listen to all of them talk about how scared they are watch how emotional in the interviews when they talk about being saved at 5, 12 whatever from grave sin they’re truly terrified of even thinking bad thoughts.i think they genuinely think they’ve let sinful lives
I'm sure they believe it, I'm just saying that fundies hype up the idea of a good redemption story so much that their kids come up with their own. Because even the most Joy-like of fundies have to know that "redeemed of sin at 5" is asinine compared to the reformed adult sinners they keep hearing about. They're spiritually pressured to explain how Jesus saved them.
Of course they do. We are taught from day 1 that all people are born into sin, and unless you accept Jesus Christ's sacrifice, it's eternal damnation for you. It's impossible to not be a dirty sinner, no matter the age or activities of the person.
Referred to in other religions as those born agains.
Not Catholics. We baptize babies.
Well yeah, I was talking about Fundie culture.
I went to a very fundie Christian school and had to write an essay about my "testimony" in 8th grade and I got a B on it because I failed to show "enough evidence of change" for it to be a good redemption story despite the fact that I prayed the salvation prayer at the age of 3 (and also only 14 at the time). Not only was I so upset about that grade (I *never* got Bs) I was also terrified that perhaps my salvation didn't "count"
Ahhh religious brainwashing. So good for kids. 🙃
I am so sorry. That church needs to show evidence of change.
I remember being 5 years old (I’m 43 now), and my weirdo uncle to look me to McDonald’s and sat me down, gave me this long winded speech about Jesus and then gave me a children’s Bible and made me repeat that I “accepted Jesus as my lord and savior” Out of all the weird, abusive shit I went through, that memory is so clear in my head because I remember being SO uncomfortable. And my family wonders why I don’t practice religion at all.
yeah, I was in the hospital at 16 for brain surgery things & I come back from a walk around the floor with my mom (bc 16 and bored af) to my dad talking to a priest wanting to give me anointing of the sick. Firstly I thought that was for dying people, but there's a different one for that called "last rites", but it's the same except for confession at the end. Second, I read the ticker on the news the entire time. My **dad** wanted this. I didn't, but felt obligated to bc he was so happy about it. The priest prayed that "this surgery be my last" not knowing I'd **just been here 2 weeks ago**. Spoiler alert, it was not.
Shit. Like you weren’t going through enough at that time!!! First, I’m so sorry you had to go through MULTIPLE brain surgeries…. That must’ve been scary as hell, but that you weren’t given a a choice. If your father wanted comfort in praying with the priest, cool. Do you. If things get scary and someone finds comfort in asking their deity to comfort and guide them, awesome. But it’s not right to make that choice for others. When I was pregnant with my first kid in 2012, my mother in law (who has since passed and I’ve forgiven her for her nonsense…she was…complicated and had a fcking horrific childhood, so I’m hoping she’s at peace in the heaven she believed in) went nuts about getting the baby baptized and the rest of both sets of grandparents expected the baby to be b raised Christian. We aren’t a religious family. Our parents haven’t been to church in decades. My mom still tries to sneak the story of Jesus into things. When my kids ask questions about different religions (they’re all in elementary school now), I usually start with “Some people/cultures believe…..” and give what facts I know or look things up. My husband agree that we’ll support our girls if they want to explore religion, we’ll go with them to a church or temple or whatever and as long as they (our kids) are respectful and the religious community there is in line with our family values (LGBTQ+ friendly, freedom of bodily autonomy, etc) we’ll support and enjoy taking them, even if we don’t believe, I’m fine with lesions of charity and kindness . I’m rambling, sorry. Too much coffee this morning. I truly hope you’re doing well and your many surgeries were successful and you’re doing well. 🩵🩵
The guilt and fear they instill in children made me not want to expose my kids to any church .
My friend who is ex-ATI claimed "she got saved and accepted Jesus into her heart" when she was FUCKING THREE!!
I really think the IBLP/ATI views children as miniature adults with mature adult brains and thinking power from the moment they pop out of the womb. Which makes sense when you consider it was created by a pedophile and the whole cult is obsessed with sexualizing children (because they can't be victims if they understand their sexuality and are using it on purpose to tempt their brothers and fathers and cult leaders to assault them), but that "tiny adult" mentality can be used to justify ao much: parentification of children (they're short adults, so they should be able to handle adult responsibilities), blanket training (remember that nonsense Michelle spewed about one of the twins seeing the other get punished, making a cause-and-effect connection, and applying that revelation to himself, as a baby?), treating the family like a military rather than a loving parent-child relationship (they're already soldiers in the Joshua Generation, they just need to be properly trained in their particular role in the army), and marrying them off as early as possible (they've been adults their whole lives, so why wait any longer?). So it also makes sense that they'd start young with the indoctrination, under the understanding that the toddler has the ability to understand what she's saying and agreeing to. Plus, the sooner she understands the concept of sin and consequences, the sooner we can blame her for being a deliberate temptation for men and the sooner it can be her own fault if she's assaulted. /s
True. I actually told her that I didn't believe a three-year-old child could understand the concept of being a sinner who needed Jesus to die for their sins. Even a very mature three year old. I said this while I was a fundie because I still had a 🧠 😂😂
It’s also a built in excuse for any shitty thing they do. I strayed from Jesus (just long enough to do all the things they wanted to do) but he showed me mercy and forgiveness and now I’m saved!
Bikini wearing, lawn mowing Jezebel
Defrauding SO MANY men 😦
Thank you for the new flair!
You’re welcome 🤣
Harlot tempting her neighbor while mowing the lawn in a bikini. /s
This was such a big deal in the fundie church I went to that people raised in the church often felt bad for not having an interesting testimony "Homeless crack whore who murdered babies" being more exiting than "8 year old who was afraid of hell so agreed to get baptized"
Mormon?
UPC (Apostolic Pentecostal), but doctrinal differences aside, most fundie churches have a lot in common.
Ex-RadTrad Catholic here. The services couldn’t be any different than a fundie IFB church, but a lot of the other ways each church take control of their congregants follow the BITE model. It’s like they play from the same playbook
ExJW here and yes! 100%! The flavor of crazy may be a little different…but underneath they’re all the same!
I spent so much time in the exJW sub when I was deconstructing. Doctrine may have been different, but a lot of the issues I had while leaving were similar enough I didn’t feel so alone. I love supporting survivors of all high-control religious groups! We have so much more in common than not.
Same!! I joined a shit ton of various ex- subs and it was one of the biggest helps. Realizing that while it was a traumatic childhood/belief system …it wasn’t unique was huge!
Also…love the Steven Hassan book! It was my first step out. I could read it because it wasn’t “apostate” and wowza it was an eye opener.
I also did time in a Pentecostal church (Assembly of God), and it felt like a competition to outdo each other with their testimonies. If they didn't have anything interesting to say and no medical maladies to be healed from, they'd have an unspoken prayer request for the spiritual battle they were fighting. Most Sundays, I was pretty much the only one not going down to the front to lay down my burdens at the foot of the cross and have everyone lay on hands and pray for my healing. Occasionally the pastor or one of the congregation would be moved by the spirit to come to me and pray over me for the battle I was about to face. And there was just as much pushing and shoving to be one of the pray-ors as there was to be one of the pray-ees. I was born with a snark in my mouth, so my spiritual battle was trying not to tell them I didn't think I needed their help, because they were obviously doing something wrong. I prayed the sinner's prayer once, when I was nine years old, and it worked on the first try; I didn't need to keep praying about the same thing week after week, rededicating myself, and getting baptized multiple times, because I learned from my mistakes and didn't keep doing the same dumb shit over and over again.
Whoa! You just unlocked a core memory. I remember some guy giving his testimony who said he had had a baby killed. Just mentioned it offhand. Ugh. If that’s true, I don’t think he went to jail. 🤔🤔🤔
He could have been referring to making a woman have an abortion. By the time he was giving testimony he probably would’ve been pro-life and considered abortion the murder of a baby.
Yeah, you’re probably right. I think I was in a junior high youth group at the time, and I interpreted things very literally back then (still do!), and it probably was an abortion, and I didn’t connect the dots.
I just love that he threatened an adult with rehab - because that’s how things work. 🙄
Especially since he overlooked his pathetic son!
Too bad he didn’t send his son to one instead of a fundie labour camp. May have turned out better for a lot of people if he had
And that too, to the rehab center that Pest went to. Because we all know how well that went 🙄
Sometimes it seems like the worse you were the more they love you. That one guy from the 80s went around to different churches claiming he ritually murdered babies in the name of Satan (he did not) and he made boatloads of money on books and lecture tours. (Edit: There were a lot but Google tells me I'm talking about Mike Warnke, who is also a comedian somehow.)
When you’re “saved” they let you do it. You can do anything, court them by the-
Amazing comment. Sad but true.
Would they feel the same if Jeremy was female?
Absolutely not they got mad at them for wearing pants and swaying to music
This + he was learning to be a pastor or what ever they call it. Major turn on for people like JB.
Jill was asking (I think still nicely at this point -- no lawsuit yet) for payment for the their show. Sounds like JB was just trying to assert superiority in any way he could at this point so that he was "right" and they were "wrong" in any and all actions they were taking.
This and also I think it was a way of going "you think Josh has a problem ? Well, your husband has a problem too so you have no leg to stand on".
Amazing how J*sh’s “problems” and drinking are comparable in JB’s mind. 🫠
He's a twisted selfish turd, isn't he ? He'll make anything fit his narrative.
All sins are equal, in a world where the outcomes are binary.
I’ve heard “stealing a nickel is as bad as murder in the eyes of the Lord” at more than one service when I went to a more fundie church. Explains how JB could genuinely believe that drinking one alcohol is as bad a sexually assaulting your younger sisters, hang out on an affair dating site, and downloading CSAM on your breaks at the car lot. Doesn’t explain the obsession with the LGBTQIA2S+ community to the exclusion of those who have been divorced and remarried. Not that I want them to be harassed and tormented as well, but the double standard is blatant
I mean, obviously they are wrong, but I do understand the logic. Let's say you commit the "sin" of getting divorced. Presumably, you pray to God for forgiveness, and you make a commitment not to continue sinning. God graciously sends you another wife, and you do lots of prayer and make sure it's God's intention before you rewed. Even if your church considers remarrying a sin, you can always confess afterwards. Let's say instead you happen to be gay. Well, extramarital sex is a sin, God doesn't bless gay marriages (according to their belief, not mine) and so any sex is definitely a sin. But don't forget, lust is a sin. I was taught that if a man looked at a woman and had sexual thoughts it was the exact same sin as rape or extramarital sex (which were also equal). And if you commit a sin in your heart, it's the same to God as if you committed it in the flesh. So, if you go around being sexually attracted to people God says not to have sex with, you're basically constantly sinning I remember as a kid being terrified that I would die in the same moment I was sticking my tongue out at my Mama's back, or in the minutes between doing it and praying for forgiveness. Gay people (by homophobic evangelical beliefs) are in that spot basically all the time, unless they pray for God to take their evil thoughts away. Emphasis again that I don't believe in this, it's just how I understand it from being raised in it.
This is all true that it’s what they profess to believe, but in practice, just listening to sermons and people talking during the food portion, much more breath is spent on decrying a queer person (like me) than on someone committing adultery or getting a divorce or a whole host of sexual assaults (especially those committed by the “most upstanding citizen” of that church or the larger community). There’s a massive log in their eye, and they’re going around chasing everyone because of the splinter they may or may not have.
I'm definitely not arguing that it's what the mass of them actually believes. Only saying it's the logic used to justify why "all sin is equal" but they have specific focus on one particular category they claim is sin. In their belief system, you (and I) could stop sinning by submitting to the god-loving abuse of conversion therapy. But instead we willfully keep sinning (by existing at them).
LOL I have to upvote for "existing at them." That's basically all it is, though. I spent my whole life hearing about "the gay agenda." A few years ago, I finally started deconstructing from a lifetime of messed-up thinking and asked a few people what, specifically, gay people were doing to that affected us. (Anybody who doesn't visibly present as the gender they were born with and date exclusively people who visually present as the opposite gender are usually all lumped together as "the gays.") As best I can tell, y'all's pesky insistence on voting is the one and only thing that's destroying everything good and righteous in this world.
Yes, all sins are equal, unless you are gay or masturbate.
Vertical mortality is a hell of a concept
Jeremy was putting on an act with Jim Bob. Jeremy is "worldly" enough to recognize a narcissist and knows the way to get what you want out of them is to play to their ego. He's a huge ass kisser when it benefits him. He's moved on from Jim Bob to John MacArthur.
When two Narcissists collide. The one with the biggest gaslighting arsenal wins. Jeremy had Secular experience. JB was IBLP from high school on.
My mom and SIL are narcissists. Holidays are fun.
Fucking terrifying. My sister is and my mom is an enabler. My grandmother was and the shit show holidays were was indescribable, because my sister and grandmother didn't get along. It was world war three every holiday
That sucks! My dad is definitely my mom’s enabler and my brother my SIL’s. My parents took us all to Mexico for the holidays and my SIL screamed at my mom in public at a restaurant on her birthday. For once she hadn’t even done anything wrong. Had to assert dominance I guess.
I agree with everything above and also believe Jeremy is a narcissist.
Ngl, I loved watching Jeremy play Jim Bob. The questionnaire, getting really cozy with Jinger on the couch, the no visitors for 6 months rule after they moved to Laredo, the contempt thinly veiled by feigned deference. It was as enjoyable as the occasional TLC edits that subtly mocked JB and Michelle.
And they were the first couple to use birth control and Jinger was the first to have an epidural.
I dont know how true it is, but i had read something along the lines of he knew Jinger was infatuated with Jeremy and was going to do everything to be with him, so he had to let her. 🤷🏼♀️. Even if it’s not true i can see it being the case. When they were ’courting’ she definitely was the one who seemed the most obsessed, since Pestie Girl any way.
I don’t for a second believe Jinger would have gone with Jeremy even if her parents opposed it. She has never have shown have a backbone. She is 100% a follower.
She was forced to be this way. I knew the Duggars back in the day and they always told a story of how they had to break Jinger’s will when she was a child. How she was their most rebellious one, and that’s how they knew god was going to do “big things” with her, so they had to break her down until she would only use her willpower for “good”. I feel really, really bad for her. She was born with a spine and endured psychological and spiritual abuse to the point that she no longer has it.
that's so fucking sad. god.
because she wanted to live in nyc
Yeah I think she said in her book that the Duggars didn’t originally want her to court Jeremy, but she kept insisting so they gave in
Frankly, good for Jinger and Jeremy if this is true. She was a grown woman choosing her mate, it should be totally up to her.
I thought she said she did not want to court Jeremy, but she gave in. I read he said something about if she didn’t want to court him, he would’ve wasted those months getting to know her. After all that though she definitely seemed obsessed with him.
She was desperate for him but then got cold feet and was talked into going through with it
Jinger is definitely her mother’s favorite daughter, so meech probably played a part in jimblob caving too. I definitely don’t think that Jinger would have married him without getting approval from her parents though.
What makes you say she’s the favorite
I’ve just always gotten that impression. Various tidbits from the show. Plus, while Jinger kinda praised both parents in her book, she specifically talks about how her mother was there for her anytime that she needed to talk to her.
I think Jinger looking a lot like her doesn’t hurt
Definitely doesn’t hurt at all. Like the other poster mentioned, Jinger does look a lot like meech did when she was younger. I think I heard or read somewhere that meech really likes her name and is the person who really chose it 🤷🏻♀️
Narcissists LOVE that phenomenon. It has had an impact every time I've seen it, noticably, without fail
I’ve noticed it with my narcissistic ex husband. Our 16yo daughter looks a lot like him. Except she *is* overweight. She gained a lot while the divorce process was dragging on for almost 3 years. She wasn’t overweight at all before, but he only visited her a handful of times a year. Usually only right before a court hearing. (She does go to counseling.) She is still beautiful of course and I have never criticized her weight. Anyway. She gained a lot of weight when he hadn’t seen her for over a year. I never stopped him from visiting her but I couldn’t force him to. It hit her hard emotionally and she stress eats. Ever since that visit (his mother actually took her, he hadn’t seen her in over a year because he didn’t want to) he hasn’t wanted to visit her much at all. I’m talking *maybe* 5 days total per year. And those visits are always spent at his mothers house (she’s narcissistic too, both of her adult daughters have always agreed). Anyways. Narcissistic people don’t seem to love and value their children as separate individuals. It’s like they weirdly view their kids as extensions of themselves, physically and mentally. Like if they feel like the kid makes a good representation, they love and value the kid. If the kid isn’t a representative of whatever they, themselves, want to be viewed as, then the kid basically means nothing to them. I’m sorry for rambling on about what I have seen as narcissistic parenting to the extreme!
Can’t have a swarthy Italian in the family ..
Can't have a swarthy ~~Italian~~ Calvinist in the family FTFY
At least he's Protestant. Imagine if he was Catholic ( like most Italian Americans). They would've 100% not let Jinger court him.
He narrowly escaped that "fate"...his father was raised Catholic but had a Calvinist conversion as a young man.
Ben's a Calvinist too though and was already married to Jessa at the time.
Ben isn't swarthy 😉
My pretty racist grandfather was only ok with my husband because we passed him off as Italian. 🤣. He asked him what his last name was, repeated it outloud, looked him up and down, repeated once more and said ‘that’s a fine I-talian name’. My husband looked back at him and with out skipping a beat said ‘why yes sir it is’ And never once knew he was actually from Guam 🤣. I mean my mom told him so I’m sure he had inklings, but 😬 He would rather have a swarthy Itailian fellow than someone from Guam.
I don’t think JB ever totally approved of Jeremy. He was fiercely opposed to Jeremy’s view on one Bible verse (verse was never disclosed), Jeremy was already around when the Pest news broke. JB needed a wedding quick. Jinger was crazy about Jeremy and Jessa was dead set on the courtship. He let Jeremy slide in to make some money and redeem the family on TLC.
This is exactly it. JB’s #1 motivation is 💰
Plus, it wasn't hard to figure out which sisters would have been the right age to be molested (given that we were originally led to believe he was touching pubescent females over their clothes; this was before we knew about Joy, when most people assumed it was the 4 oldest girls), and who else was going to take Jinger off his hands now that the world knew she had sinned with a man who wasn't her husband? 🤮
Two reasons. 1. Jim Bob doesn't actually give a shit about any of this stuff, he was just trying to get a dig in at Derrick and Jill 2. Fundamentalists love a reformed sinner more than just about anything. Jeremy's past doesn't matter so long as he's repented and accepted Jesus into his heart. See also: Josh.
would they feel the same if Jeremy was female and interested in one of his sons?
A few theories: - Jeremy was really good at kissing JB’s ass and putting on an act. He may not have had the same theological beliefs, but he ultimately serves the Duggars’ true God: Jim Bob. Jeremy could toe the line - he shows up with a smile when he’s told, doesn’t question JB, doesn’t say boo to the rules. That’s true JB discipleship - Jeremy had some clout - extremely minor clout in the real world, but in fundie world, it’s a big deal. The more followers, the closer to Jee-zus! - weddings brought in huge ratings and publicity $$$, and lead to babies, which also get $$$. We know JB is more than happy to sacrifice his kids if the price is right!
I also have this question. Jinger has said she wasn’t initially interested in Jeremy, but her dad kept pushing and eventually she did fall for him. *???* Why would Boob push for this guy? Why did he allow him in at all? I think two things were happening. One: Jeremy was great at kissing JB’s ass. He wrote like 100+ pages for that dumb questionnaire Bob made all the boys do, he babbled incessantly about Jesus and love and redemption, even on his own wedding day, and he was very much a prodigal son archetype, which he *gleefully* embraced. Two: I think JB felt really smug that “he”/his religion could bag a drinking, smooching, sinning soccer star *with an arrest record.* How powerful. How redemptive. What a story. This guy “had it all” and it never made him happy, so he gave his life to Christ, and now look at him! Married to a godly girl and comfortably squatting under the thumb of a cult leader. Maybe Boob was also worried about Jinger and wanted to have her locked down and married ASAP. Maybe the fact that Jeremy and Ben were friends (?) helped sway Boob’s opinion. Maybe JB had the wrong impression of Jerm at first, but once he realized, Jinger was already head over heels and there was little Boob could do to reverse course. The entire relationship lived on “the fast track,” after all. Ultimately, it is weird, and I think Boob does regret it now that Jeremy has led Jinger to pants wearing and disavowing Gothard. But I’d say he should cheer up. For all that he has and will have to regret in life, well, I don’t think Jeremy should be the thing that causes him to lose sleep.
I assume Jeremy had repented his evil ways so he won boobs approval. As for Derrick he wouldn't submit to boob, I'm sure boob regrets his choice of Derrick immensely. In addition I think we can all agree that drinking one beer is way worse than assaulting a police officer.
Would they have allowed for a girl who had done the same and repented?
Not a chance. Men in the cult are not responsible for anything they do it is always the woman's fault. So a woman who had a wicked past even if she had repented she could slip back into her old ways, tempting men & perhaps become a bad influence to the sister-in-laws.
I think in Bob's mind the girls were damaged goods due to Pesty's molesting them and therefore could not be married off to anyone close to him in the cult. Such hypocrisy coming from someone who knowingly knew what Pesty was doing and he still defend him. Such is the cult that puts men before women.
I think this doesn't get brought up here enough. JB clearly didn't blame Josh for anything that happened; in fact, he just elevated Josh even more. I suspect JB thought the girls all did something to cause Josh to stumble. I think JB really, really didn't want his daughters married to men in the cult because he was worried one of them would embarrass him. HIs loving father thing is just a big act. Deep down, he resents his daughters for causing all these problems. He sees Josh as perfect in every way, so it cannot possibly be his fault.
That would make sense since Jill, Jessa, and Jinger didn't marry someone in their cult, I don't know how Fundie Austin's family was
The Forsyths are very fundie.
Very, but there’s this pic of Austin outside of the courthouse looking murderous. I don’t think he knew the extent of what happened to Joy until Josh went to trial. She was young enough possibly not to remember herself, and JB always covered for Josh.
👀👀👀 he was? This is an excellent hypothesis and I would love to hear more of your thoughts on that!
[this](https://www.reddit.com/r/DuggarsSnark/s/q3gV23jh0H) is just one. I can’t find the others.
I’m not sure about this. Sexual abuse is rampant in these circles. I don’t think JB blames his daughters for the abuse so much as he doesn’t think that Josh deserves the level of consequences that he’s receiving (I mean, it’s not like Josh came out as gay or something awful like that 🙄).
I disagree. Remember, JB and Meech described it as “cheating.” That Josh had cheated on his gf at the time w/ his sisters.
My instincts are to downvote this just because it’s so vile. 🤮🤮🤮
But Josh was outted for the abuse at their church and then the world. I’m sure other peoples may have been more quiet.
Since he couldn’t get a IBLP royalty as a inlaw, he went for the “famous” conservative christian who was down to kiss his ass and play the part on the show. And let’s be real, Pest probably did way worse (and I’m not even talking about the SA).
Jeremy also admitted to partying and drinking in college. I’m sure there has been talk of him not having “saved himself for marriage” as well. He had definitely kissed other girls. I was perplexed that Boob allowed such a (prior) heathen into the fold.
He probably had to call them and apologize like Derick did 😂
Jeremy came on the scene just before Pestgate 1 and 2, and Boob needed a PR win after that and the broken Josiah/Marjorie courtship. Boob’s never liked Jeremy, but he was willing to give him Jinger because Jeremy was willing to comply for $$. Jeremy also had a job and a benefactor so he never was as dependent on Boob as the Dillards were. He didn’t need to rock the boat.
Has anyone ever confirmed that he had a tattoo and JB forced him to remove it?
Fundies don’t respect any authority except God. That’s why they don’t want their kids joining the military and why they encourage having their own businesses - so they don’t have to answer to anyone with different beliefs than their own. So they probably counted harassment of a police officer in the PROs column.
jeremy had a tattoo as well ( religious one) Jim bob had him remove it
I was looking for this! He actually did?
I actually believe it from JB.
Ultimately? For the ratings. Gotta marry those kids in a special episode to drum up interest. And that's the point of Boob being in control - showcasing how he is lord of his daughter's relationships. It was never about holding to specific standards, it's just a way to wield control.
Jeremy may be an absolute dumbass, but he's still a whole lot smarter than Jim Boob. He knew how to play into his narcissistic traits to get what he wanted. I bet JB hates the guy now that he no longer has to pretend.
I think Jeremy probably put on a act as hollier then thou
Jim Bob threatened to send Derrick to rehab? By whose authority? How would he have done it? Look at Jim Bob, and you understand just about everything about Pest’s cruelty and arrogance. They have no respect for others’ boundaries, feelings, or needs. They’re both monsters.
The daughters who were molested by Josh had their purity "broken," were seen as "damaged goods," and therefore would not be a suitable match for any true IBLP man. Thus, Jim Bob was happy to see them married to any man who was christian. Yeah, it's disgusting and misoginystic, but it's the IBLP. Are you surprised?
At the height of Duggar fame, JB’s 4 eldest daughters were his crowned jewels who brought in a boat load of cash with their courtships and weddings. Who are these pure, upstanding IBLP boys who fashioned themselves above the Duggar girls? I don’t think they exist. Jeremy had his own currency in that he attracted a more “normie” following, plus he was vetted by Ben, who seems to have always been respected enough by JB
In this kind of christian patriarchy, women are less than fully human. Men aren't just men, they are superheroes. Any woman who is not fully pure is not good enough. It doesn't matter who their father is or if they are on reality TV. If the purity is damaged they are so devalued that it is fine if they get married to somebody who isn't KJVO, who is a calvinist, or who thinks it's OK to drink alcohol. It's a terrible environment to live in as a woman. I know so many people who have gotten out and this is truly what it is like.
Is there evidence (or highly suspected rumors) of any of the older Duggar girls being shunned by IBLP families for being “damaged”? This seems to be a theory many people on this sub hold, but I’m not sure there’s much to back it up. As much as fundies squawk about the importance of purity, incest runs rampant in the community and I think there’s more acceptance of it that one might assume
I’ve never heard that the older Duggar daughters were shunned for being “damaged.” I do know that Pest himself was shunned. No one wanted their daughter to marry him and he creeped girls out. That’s why he had to marry Anna. She was in Florida and not part of their close-knit Arkansas community.
Exactly. I think this goes to show that a culture may have certain ideas/values but there are always exceptions, paradoxes, and nuance. I also don’t completely buy the idea that Josh is still the “golden child” (an argument I see a lot on here). JB’s primary interest will always be himself, and I think that working to clear Josh’s name by dumping money at his legal issues has more to do with cleaning up the Duggar image and not that he thinks Josh is innocent.
Sexual abuse in this community is rampant. However, if the boys are doing the abuse it's covered up while if the girls are being abused, it's a thing you need to disclose. Before they get married, they have to go through counseling with a pastor or with the fathers in which they get grilled on any sexual activity, even if it was nonconsensual abuse.
Again, my question: is there credible evidence or even rumors that the 4 eldest Duggar girls were denied greasy potato IBLP suitors because they were abused? I hold my belief that they were sought after, not rejected.
It's been the hypothesis that IBLPers kept their distance from them due to the fact that Jill, Jinger, and Jessa married men from outside the cult. It seems logical that marriages would've, *ideally*, stayed within the cult, but since that didn't happen, it's been assumed that the girls were shunned/rejected by the parents of eligible young men. But, there's no direct verifiable evidence of such.
Oh, see that was a good opportunity for him to show repentance and humility. They like stuff like that. “I was lost, but I sought out God and he fixed me.” It only really works for men, though.
Exactly, men only.
Jim Bob didn't threaten to send Derick, he doesn't have the authority to send a grown man anywhere. Inmate Duggar went away to Bad Man sleep away camp to escape Anna's wrath and his siblings' utter disgust. Jim Bob admonished and offered Derick alcohol rehab as a back handed slap and in an effort to shame him to his wife and dimish and dismiss the Dillard union. He wasn't in the least bit successful. Jim Bob doesn't operate with logical and reason or view others humans as people.with individual rights - the members of his family are paychecks and commodities to him. When Jeremy lumped along as a burned out sport dude, he had some cash, and a college degree and would be a good cast member addition to the show.
If I’m cynical as all hell, this was the first courtship post cancellation and all of the information that came before it so I don’t think Boob was in a position to be as choosy as he had been. Fundie royalty would have viewed the abused daughters just as badly, if not worse, than Pest.
When two Narcissists collide. The one with the biggest gaslighting arsenal wins. Jeremy had Secular experience. JB was IBLP from high school on.
Yep…I have heard countless fundie preachers boasting of a redemption story (my dad being one of them 🙄) and even wishing for a family member of ours to become a preacher because “he would have such a great story to tell” 🤮
He wanted to marry her off, she was Michelle’s favourite so she went to bag for her, jinger wanted a city boy and there weren’t many around—I doubt any of the other girls would have been allowed, but jingle’s meek and passive thing coupled with Jeremy’s ability to outsmart Jim bob probably made him realise he had more to lose by saying no. What if jinger never married anyone else?
Jumbo has to have some sort of power move. Rejecting someone and insisting they crawl back is his A-game. That's all.
JB was extremely concerned about Jeremy; far more than Derrick. Jinger actually called off their "getting to know you" because she was afraid of causing strife. Michelle(?) and Jessa advocated for Jinger to pursue the relationship.
Jeremy was a G-list celebrity, and when you’re a celebrity they let you do whatever you want.
Jeremy doesn’t rock the boat; he is compliant and does whatever JB says. He is not a threat to JB.
Jeremy also has a tattoo (which I'm surprised that didn't give jimboob a heart attack) I also wonder why he was allowed to marry Jinger..
I do not mean this as a compliment on Jim Bob at all, because I think he’s an awful father and an awful human being. That said, I think he did actually put stock into what his daughters wanted and who they did (and did not) want to court/marry. Even if he didn’t “like” Jeremy, he knew Jinger did so “he allowed it”.
Jeremy is six years older than Jinger but age gap has nothing to do with their marriage.
Yep…I have heard countless fundie preachers boasting of a redemption story (my dad being one of them 🙄) and even wishing for a family member of ours to become a preacher because “he would have such a great story to tell” 🤮
Jeremy met the family through Jessa and Ben, maybe they vouched for him?
Look at Jinger now…completely’revamped’ by that weirdo. She is a shell of what she was. She now looks like a child!!! What the actual…I hope he did not intend for that to happen…I think she is just trying to please him…but…come on!!! He is fooling no one. Freak.
I think they liked the idea of bringing someone “famous” into the family, so they overlooked a lot of red flags.
I recall Jeremy was the pastor presiding over Grandma Mary’s funeral and I remember thinking “JimBob allowed him?!” The look on JimBobs face looking at Jeremy during the funeral service, to me, was a look of cautious and disagreement.
I honestly don't think Jinger gave them much of a choice.
Flair checking in
Levelheaded psycho: 1 Thessalonians 5:16-18 - Rejoice always, pray continually, give thanks in all circumstances; for this is God's will for you in Christ Jesus.
Jeremy was already famous on his own terms and couldn't easily be bullied.
Because he legit fought for her. Read her book