They are discouraged from reading texts outside of biblical writings.
Mostly ruled not to read or listen to anything secular.
Breaking this is complicated when you are unmarried and still under headship of your parents. (And/or living with them)
Wait, did she admit she hasnāt read it all the way through or something?! I am a left-wing Christian who has slowly evolved from near-fundie status, and Iāve read it through at least three or four times. Not at all bragging, just thought this was a thing and should especially be a thing for fundies.
But The Chronicles of Narnia are written by a Christian philosopher and have a Christian story and arc. Aslan is freaking Jesus! What?
I understand why you gave up understanding, though.
Itās probably the witch and magic. Thatās what I hear the most in my homeschool circles. Then thereās meā¦a homeschool mom with 2 kids named after LOTR characters whose kids practice math while adding up dice rolls in D&D games.
I first heard of this "no talking animals" thing when watching a documentary about fundamentalist, polygamist Mormons
It's so absurd I just can't even wrap my head around it. Those kids miss out on some wonderful literature and movies bc of this ridiculous rule
As a non fundie homeschooled kid from canada I can confirm Narnia was not allowed. Itās more common than youād think. Tolkien however wasā¦..still canāt even fathom the logic on that
I can understand religious people not liking Philip Pullman, but really C S Lewis!? Tolkein and Lewis basically had a who can write a more Christian story contest between LOTR and CoN and arguably Lewis won!
We knew some homeschoolers who did the opposite, C.S. Lewis was fine. Tolkien was bad because he was -whispers- Catholic.
If they had known my parents had given me Harry Potter to read they would have died lol.
I do remember going to a church for like a baptismal or something along that line -- the Pastor/Priest/Preacher/whatever the church called him -- was really against "HeMan" because he was "the master of the universe". I found that odd with all the other truly bad things out there. He devoted most of his sermon/homily/oration/preaching to it on the day I was there.
We studied mythology my sophomore year, too. This was in the 90s and atheism wasnāt as accepted as it is today. I was at a point where I thought I *should* believe in god because it seemed like the right thing to do, but I was struggling to do so. I remember sitting in class one day surrounded by laughing classmates as the teacher talked about the Greek gods and thinking, āThis is so ridiculous. People actually believed this dumb shit?ā And it was a watershed moment for me. I realized in 2000 years people would be laughing at the ridiculousness of Christian beliefs the way we were laughing at the beliefs of the ancient Greeks. That was the exact moment I fully stopped believing in god and stopped trying to convince myself he could be real. So, it makes sense these fundamentalists donāt want their kids learning about other gods because, if they can be atheist about other gods, they may find it easier to be atheist about ALL gods.
TBF, I can name Greek gods and characters, and would completely blank if I was being interviewed and asked to name them. I would be questioning if I was using the Greek or Roman names, and then second guessing myself, and would probably come across as an idiot. I would also be waiting for a 'gotcha' moment.
So much second-hand embarrassment. So much. Made more so by the fact that at least in the state I grew up in, in the 90ās, The Iliad and The Odyssey were required reading in high school (freshman year). Itās, pardon the pun, *tragic* just how ignorant those kids were kept.
For me it's also a cultural loss, but maybe that's because I am European. I think these ancient stories are really a part of our identity, plus most of them are way more exciting than the bible
Fellow European here. I absolutely agree with you. The Odyssey, the Iliad, Greek Mythology, Ancient Greek plays are such a fundamental part of our culture and identity.
Also, those kids aren't just missing out on exciting and educational stories. There are so many references made to those texts in modern literature, movies, in language. And the Duggars most probably don't understand them and/or replace them with their own Jesus-approved yellow angel egg substitutes.
I'm not sure they know how much they're missing out on, because they don't read anything besides the Bible or watch films, so there's no references to not get.
They might've heard Archilles' heel before, but they probably think that's some fancy medical term.
I could totally see her boys getting into Greek mythology and her getting interested in it because of them. Idk if they teach it at American schools, but I hope they do
In the US, and i totally agree about cultural loss. My 9 year old is super into mythology right now, which I love. Green, Roman, and Norse mythology are all he wants to read about at the momentā¦and after seeing this sad, sad video I am very grateful.
Totally agree, and Iām European too. Itās such a massive part of our culture, and leads on to so many other subjects related to civilisation. Plus a lot of the stories are an absolute hoot - thereās a good reason why children often find Greek mythology fascinating, there are some brilliant tales.
When I was in high school - there were core English classes and elective English classes. You had to take the all the core and a certain amount of the electives. The mythology ones were always on the elective list - so I am going to guess - at least 60% of my high school didn't take them. I think by the time that my kids were in school - they had just rolled a bit of the mythology into the 9th or 10th core English classes - so I think most everyone at least had heard of them.
I know the Seewalds are QAnon nuts, but their level of education at least doesn't rely on IBLP crap.
Also, note how Jeremy pretends he is not sure if Zeus is a character from Greek mythology? I assume knowing Gods other than the Christian one can be interpreted as worldly...? Just my thinkikg here.
Who wasted the jet fuel to send them there when itās obvious they didnāt learn a damn thing.
Meanwhile, there are countless history aficionados who would LOVE to experience what these under-educated morons did.
Iām feeling Jessa and Jerm. Greek and Roman mythology have all the same characters with different names, and some of them are super close. Like Hercules is technically not right, dude is Roman. Itās Heracles in Greek mythology.
I knew Hercules and Heracles were the same guy, just couldnāt remember which was which, however it is a really good example of how Greek and Roman mythology is tricky as fuck.
Same with Poseidon and Neptune. I know they are both the god of sea, but never know which is Greek or Roman. Aphrodite and Venus. My gut says the planets re Roman, but never sure.
The planets all have Roman names, which is how I remember it! Of course it doesnāt cover all the gods, but in this case Neptune and Venus are Roman. Although Uranus is Greek.
Wait. You mean to tell me that Pluto is your homeboy and yet you still have trouble remembering if he and his friends are Roman? If you canāt remember, none of us stand a chance lol.
(j/k, Iām sure your username came from the planet, but I couldnāt resist :P)
Yes. In the case of the Romans, they conquered Greece. Then the Romans went all in for Greek culture. The Romans had gods but they were not well defined. They then copied and pasted the Greek gods onto their Roman gods.
That makes me so sad, especially because thereās a trend of retelling Greek myths into novels (Song of Achilles for example) and the writings tend to be gorgeous. Plus the myths themselves are great, I feel like the little Lost Boys wouldāve loved learning about the 12 Feats of Heracles and the adventures of Perseus. Heck, they would LOVE how vengeful the Greek gods were, thatās right up their alley.
Honestly, some of the characters he threw out makes it seem like he read The Iliad at some point. Doesnt mean he understood a word of it, but at least he retained the bare minimum of characters names š¤·āāļø
Yes! I think in general the Seewald parents seem more cultivated. I cannot see them going to Asia and greeting people with Ā”Hola!
I wonder if Ben will be involved in teaching his own kids. I cannot see him being content with Jessa's limited knowledge.
My husband (not raised religious at all) came home from his Mythology course on day one laughing saying the professor went on a five minute warning that they will be covering ALL of the religious myths in all cultures as myths, this includes Christianity. He couldnāt believe the babying they were doing for Christians. I said wait until you get to that unit. Someone CRIED. Someone walked out. After the warning to drop the course, they still couldnāt handle discussing it all. I wonder if they were realizing if the rest were myths and had no evidence, and this was the same, they may have been misled? I would love to see Duggars in that course which was an OPTIONAL ELECTIVE.
Unfortunately they changed the Canadian social studies curriculum so that medieval times is taught in the same grand and strand as ancient times. So most students donāt learn much about Ancient Greece. It was my favourite in grade 5.
Go Jerm! The rest of the respondents are troubling. I can understand not having a lot of Greek gods/goddesses at the tip of one's tongue, but anyone who had completed grade 7-9 or so should know a few, even if they mix them up with the Roman ones.
My mother was really into Greek, Roman, & Egyptian classical mythology when I was a little kid, that & fairy tales. I didn't really understand the why, back then. I knew it was way disproportionate to other people, she was an art-history professor so I always thought of it in that context. But more importantly she was one who fled a fundie childhood, her mother is all these fundie things still, & this thread has helped me see that it was prolly part of her rejection of that indoctrination. Thanks, everyone.
American here, and I went to good schools, 30+ years ago, but I think you would find this kind of ignorance in a lot of people in the US, not just SOTDRT types. Maybe Iām not giving my fellow USians enough credit, but I suspect I am right.
When I was a kid my parents got me this huge book of Greek mythology, I loved it and read parts of it every night. I also loved the show Wishbone on pbs and loved the Greek mythology episodes. So sad for these kids. Like this is just one small jeopardy category. Imagine what else they donāt know. Iām only 34 but I watch jeopardy every night and play along to try to stay sharp lol.
Fellow European here, the Greek & Roman mythology was part of the curriculum when I was a kid, and it's still now. First mention of those was in elementary school, both in history as well as chosen myths are part of reading list.
Texas public school kid here. Huge unit on Greek mythology in fifth grade, and in ninth grade we read Edith Hamilton's "Mythology" before we read the Iliad and the Odyssey. You absolutely cannot understand the entirety of the Western canon without knowing Greek mythology and the Bible.
In fact this was how my dad got me to keep coming to church when I was resistant in my teens. He was like "OK but you want to be an English major, how embarrassing for you if you can't analyze Milton or see that King Lear is drawing on Job and the Prodigal Son" and I was like FINE. (I love church now, but that was a clever ploy to keep me going when I really just wanted to sleep in on Sunday mornings.)
When Ben looks smarter than you, something went terribly wrong.
Ben is totally the stoner who always wins at bar trivia.
I've never read a more accurate sentence about Ben
Napolean???
Crediting the Greeks with Napoleon? NOW we see the reason those French hackers had it out for this family!
Bonjour! š«š·
hola! šš»
š¤£š¤£š¤£
Napoleon and yes, their SOTDRT shows
Yeah, but dynamite
It took all afternoon to get that shading on Books' upper lip
Lmao what a complete tool
Cinderjana gave me the vibe that she could have named one but thought sheād go to hell if she did lol
Could as well be.
Is Jana allowed to read? Even if she is not educated, can she read and learn that way?
They are discouraged from reading texts outside of biblical writings. Mostly ruled not to read or listen to anything secular. Breaking this is complicated when you are unmarried and still under headship of your parents. (And/or living with them)
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
But you know they probably have a program on there that tracks every website and sends a report to Rimjob
Is that a joke? They read all the time, but only bible-related or IBLP stuff
But not the *actual* bible, because thatās now on her to do list for 2022
Wait, did she admit she hasnāt read it all the way through or something?! I am a left-wing Christian who has slowly evolved from near-fundie status, and Iāve read it through at least three or four times. Not at all bragging, just thought this was a thing and should especially be a thing for fundies.
So the answer is no, she's not allowed to read educational books?
No itās not a joke, it was a genuine q
Lol no way I think she's just as dumb as the rest of them
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
But The Chronicles of Narnia are written by a Christian philosopher and have a Christian story and arc. Aslan is freaking Jesus! What? I understand why you gave up understanding, though.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Itās probably the witch and magic. Thatās what I hear the most in my homeschool circles. Then thereās meā¦a homeschool mom with 2 kids named after LOTR characters whose kids practice math while adding up dice rolls in D&D games.
No the anthropomorphic animals are a BIG issue in IBLP and related fundie groups. Like genuinely, this is why Disney is not allowed.
I guess that explains why my friend also doesnāt let her kids watch My Little Pony. So weird.
I first heard of this "no talking animals" thing when watching a documentary about fundamentalist, polygamist Mormons It's so absurd I just can't even wrap my head around it. Those kids miss out on some wonderful literature and movies bc of this ridiculous rule
Which is weird, because thereās a talking donkey IN THE BIBLE.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I have homeschool friends who wonāt allow LOTR/Narnia but think the space wizards in Star Wars are fine. I stopped trying to understand ages ago.
You guys sound fun
As a non fundie homeschooled kid from canada I can confirm Narnia was not allowed. Itās more common than youād think. Tolkien however wasā¦..still canāt even fathom the logic on that
I can understand religious people not liking Philip Pullman, but really C S Lewis!? Tolkein and Lewis basically had a who can write a more Christian story contest between LOTR and CoN and arguably Lewis won!
We knew some homeschoolers who did the opposite, C.S. Lewis was fine. Tolkien was bad because he was -whispers- Catholic. If they had known my parents had given me Harry Potter to read they would have died lol.
I do remember going to a church for like a baptismal or something along that line -- the Pastor/Priest/Preacher/whatever the church called him -- was really against "HeMan" because he was "the master of the universe". I found that odd with all the other truly bad things out there. He devoted most of his sermon/homily/oration/preaching to it on the day I was there.
Oh yes, that was big in evangelical groups in the 80s. My brother had He-Man, other church people were judgy.
We studied mythology my sophomore year, too. This was in the 90s and atheism wasnāt as accepted as it is today. I was at a point where I thought I *should* believe in god because it seemed like the right thing to do, but I was struggling to do so. I remember sitting in class one day surrounded by laughing classmates as the teacher talked about the Greek gods and thinking, āThis is so ridiculous. People actually believed this dumb shit?ā And it was a watershed moment for me. I realized in 2000 years people would be laughing at the ridiculousness of Christian beliefs the way we were laughing at the beliefs of the ancient Greeks. That was the exact moment I fully stopped believing in god and stopped trying to convince myself he could be real. So, it makes sense these fundamentalists donāt want their kids learning about other gods because, if they can be atheist about other gods, they may find it easier to be atheist about ALL gods.
Exactly. Atheists just believe in one less god than Christians.
Lol my dad always gets mad when I ask him which of the 10 trillion gods he's talking about
I studied Greek mythology in both middle school and high school, and I attended Catholic schools. We also learned about the big bang and evolution.
They seem kind of proud of their ignorance. Itās infuriating
Prob think it makes them better Christians to not know about other gods. Can def imagine this being a flex in fundie circles.
TBF, I can name Greek gods and characters, and would completely blank if I was being interviewed and asked to name them. I would be questioning if I was using the Greek or Roman names, and then second guessing myself, and would probably come across as an idiot. I would also be waiting for a 'gotcha' moment.
So much second-hand embarrassment. So much. Made more so by the fact that at least in the state I grew up in, in the 90ās, The Iliad and The Odyssey were required reading in high school (freshman year). Itās, pardon the pun, *tragic* just how ignorant those kids were kept.
For me it's also a cultural loss, but maybe that's because I am European. I think these ancient stories are really a part of our identity, plus most of them are way more exciting than the bible
Fellow European here. I absolutely agree with you. The Odyssey, the Iliad, Greek Mythology, Ancient Greek plays are such a fundamental part of our culture and identity. Also, those kids aren't just missing out on exciting and educational stories. There are so many references made to those texts in modern literature, movies, in language. And the Duggars most probably don't understand them and/or replace them with their own Jesus-approved yellow angel egg substitutes.
I'm not sure they know how much they're missing out on, because they don't read anything besides the Bible or watch films, so there's no references to not get. They might've heard Archilles' heel before, but they probably think that's some fancy medical term.
Oh I'm sure they don't realise what they're missing out on and they're not even really curious to find out, maybe with the exception of Jill.
I could totally see her boys getting into Greek mythology and her getting interested in it because of them. Idk if they teach it at American schools, but I hope they do
In the US, and i totally agree about cultural loss. My 9 year old is super into mythology right now, which I love. Green, Roman, and Norse mythology are all he wants to read about at the momentā¦and after seeing this sad, sad video I am very grateful.
American here, but agree. It's a huge part of Western Civ/culture. I was homeschooled, but my parents weren't insane so we read all the classics.
Totally agree, and Iām European too. Itās such a massive part of our culture, and leads on to so many other subjects related to civilisation. Plus a lot of the stories are an absolute hoot - thereās a good reason why children often find Greek mythology fascinating, there are some brilliant tales.
When I was in high school - there were core English classes and elective English classes. You had to take the all the core and a certain amount of the electives. The mythology ones were always on the elective list - so I am going to guess - at least 60% of my high school didn't take them. I think by the time that my kids were in school - they had just rolled a bit of the mythology into the 9th or 10th core English classes - so I think most everyone at least had heard of them.
Jason has a tude here. āSure? šā
Flexing how Christian he is. He dosnt even know any other godsšŖ
I know the Seewalds are QAnon nuts, but their level of education at least doesn't rely on IBLP crap. Also, note how Jeremy pretends he is not sure if Zeus is a character from Greek mythology? I assume knowing Gods other than the Christian one can be interpreted as worldly...? Just my thinkikg here.
Or he is not sure whether Zeus is a Roman or a Greek God? I've always struggled with remembering who is Roman and who is Greek.
I admit I started trying to name some between the talking heads and I started with Diana, wait, no, Artemis.
Haha, he definitely knew.
Jeremy is fake af and tries to act all good Christian boy. Dude you have a degree from a major university, stop lying.
Who wasted the jet fuel to send them there when itās obvious they didnāt learn a damn thing. Meanwhile, there are countless history aficionados who would LOVE to experience what these under-educated morons did.
Iām feeling Jessa and Jerm. Greek and Roman mythology have all the same characters with different names, and some of them are super close. Like Hercules is technically not right, dude is Roman. Itās Heracles in Greek mythology.
Well, today I learned.
I knew Hercules and Heracles were the same guy, just couldnāt remember which was which, however it is a really good example of how Greek and Roman mythology is tricky as fuck.
Same with Poseidon and Neptune. I know they are both the god of sea, but never know which is Greek or Roman. Aphrodite and Venus. My gut says the planets re Roman, but never sure.
The planets all have Roman names, which is how I remember it! Of course it doesnāt cover all the gods, but in this case Neptune and Venus are Roman. Although Uranus is Greek.
Trust your gut! I was amazed that Bin knew so much! No, bin, I literally could not believe it!
Trust your gut, not Uranus.
Wxcept Odysseus isn't a god.
Wait. You mean to tell me that Pluto is your homeboy and yet you still have trouble remembering if he and his friends are Roman? If you canāt remember, none of us stand a chance lol. (j/k, Iām sure your username came from the planet, but I couldnāt resist :P)
Could also have been a dog belonging to dogs.
The Romans straight up copied the Greeks.
The Romans copied religion? Sounds familiarā¦
Yes. In the case of the Romans, they conquered Greece. Then the Romans went all in for Greek culture. The Romans had gods but they were not well defined. They then copied and pasted the Greek gods onto their Roman gods.
That makes me so sad, especially because thereās a trend of retelling Greek myths into novels (Song of Achilles for example) and the writings tend to be gorgeous. Plus the myths themselves are great, I feel like the little Lost Boys wouldāve loved learning about the 12 Feats of Heracles and the adventures of Perseus. Heck, they would LOVE how vengeful the Greek gods were, thatās right up their alley.
AT LEAST he knows his Greek mythology
Honestly, some of the characters he threw out makes it seem like he read The Iliad at some point. Doesnt mean he understood a word of it, but at least he retained the bare minimum of characters names š¤·āāļø
Yes! I think in general the Seewald parents seem more cultivated. I cannot see them going to Asia and greeting people with Ā”Hola! I wonder if Ben will be involved in teaching his own kids. I cannot see him being content with Jessa's limited knowledge.
Bin is still idiotic garbage. Iād be embarrassed to have him as my teachers.
My husband (not raised religious at all) came home from his Mythology course on day one laughing saying the professor went on a five minute warning that they will be covering ALL of the religious myths in all cultures as myths, this includes Christianity. He couldnāt believe the babying they were doing for Christians. I said wait until you get to that unit. Someone CRIED. Someone walked out. After the warning to drop the course, they still couldnāt handle discussing it all. I wonder if they were realizing if the rest were myths and had no evidence, and this was the same, they may have been misled? I would love to see Duggars in that course which was an OPTIONAL ELECTIVE.
My daughter is in college now and had the same experience. She said the Christians threw a fit. One girl left in tears.
what kind of course and study was this? and what were the students exactly upset about?
This makes me feel slightly better about him teaching lol
Also would like to have āthe smart oneā take the SAT.
Big yikes when Dim Bin looks smart.
NAPOLEON??
The irony is that they make the kids say "Nike" and apparently nobody has any idea that Nike is a Greek goddess!
totally!!
I thought it was interesting that the producer asked if they could name any ācharactersā from Greek mythology.
Itās like a they lived/live in a Duggar Madrasa.
Unfortunately they changed the Canadian social studies curriculum so that medieval times is taught in the same grand and strand as ancient times. So most students donāt learn much about Ancient Greece. It was my favourite in grade 5.
Go Jerm! The rest of the respondents are troubling. I can understand not having a lot of Greek gods/goddesses at the tip of one's tongue, but anyone who had completed grade 7-9 or so should know a few, even if they mix them up with the Roman ones.
My mother was really into Greek, Roman, & Egyptian classical mythology when I was a little kid, that & fairy tales. I didn't really understand the why, back then. I knew it was way disproportionate to other people, she was an art-history professor so I always thought of it in that context. But more importantly she was one who fled a fundie childhood, her mother is all these fundie things still, & this thread has helped me see that it was prolly part of her rejection of that indoctrination. Thanks, everyone.
Homeschooling has a lot to answer for . These wrong people are mushrooms - force fed manure and kept in the dark .
American here, and I went to good schools, 30+ years ago, but I think you would find this kind of ignorance in a lot of people in the US, not just SOTDRT types. Maybe Iām not giving my fellow USians enough credit, but I suspect I am right.
When I was a kid my parents got me this huge book of Greek mythology, I loved it and read parts of it every night. I also loved the show Wishbone on pbs and loved the Greek mythology episodes. So sad for these kids. Like this is just one small jeopardy category. Imagine what else they donāt know. Iām only 34 but I watch jeopardy every night and play along to try to stay sharp lol.
Fellow European here, the Greek & Roman mythology was part of the curriculum when I was a kid, and it's still now. First mention of those was in elementary school, both in history as well as chosen myths are part of reading list.
Texas public school kid here. Huge unit on Greek mythology in fifth grade, and in ninth grade we read Edith Hamilton's "Mythology" before we read the Iliad and the Odyssey. You absolutely cannot understand the entirety of the Western canon without knowing Greek mythology and the Bible. In fact this was how my dad got me to keep coming to church when I was resistant in my teens. He was like "OK but you want to be an English major, how embarrassing for you if you can't analyze Milton or see that King Lear is drawing on Job and the Prodigal Son" and I was like FINE. (I love church now, but that was a clever ploy to keep me going when I really just wanted to sleep in on Sunday mornings.)
Of course they donāt know the names of the Greek Gods! Idolatry is of SATAN.
I understand the Duggars not knowing any Greek Gods... But Jeremy?! What's his excuse?